First date
Posted on December 22, 2025 by David M Willis

613 thoughts on “First date”

  1. Sirksome

    Don’t trust Taco Bell.

    1. jeffepp

      It’s not so much Taco Bell, as it is the employees who don’t wash their hands, and what not.

      1. C.T Phipps

        In Dispatch, Malevolo makes a joke that Taco Bell is only the same four ingredients re-arranged.

        So maybe it’s Joyce’s favorite restaurant.

        1. StClair

          I’ve heard that joke before, elsewhere.

        2. Barf Ninjason

          “”Joke.”

          Nah, let’s be fair, they got at least six, eight now

        3. Dedlok

          It was Invisigal and 5 ingredients. And she is right (for the most part).

      2. motorfirebox

        Naw, as a person who’s eaten way too much fast food, it’s Taco Bell. Well, it’s some specific subset of spices often used in Latin cuisine. Just hits the “we need some extra capacity immediately” button on its way into the gut.

        1. thejeff

          Yeah, actually getting food poisoning, which is what you’d expect from employees not watching their hands, is far more serious.

      3. Thing 2

        They don’t wash their whatnot?!

    2. Clif

      I’ve never trusted them, I just want cheap and dependable sometimes.

      1. Aquila

        “Dependable Diarrhea”, now there’s a marketing slogan.

        1. Throwatron

          i’m pretty sure “juice cleanses” are a billion dollar market, so like, you’re actually in the right ballpark

      2. Jon

        Are you talking about Taco Bell, or Joyce and Dorothy? 🙂

    3. Sirksome

      Uh…? Not sure how I got top comment. My don’t trust joke is not clever enough to get top spot. I think I’ll lay low after today.

      1. Leadsynth

        You were just on top of timing at 12:02 am. Early bird gets the Taco Bell.

        1. Throwatron

          Don’t trust birds.

        2. tim Rowledge

          How can you trust things that aren’t real?

    4. Rose by Any other Name

      … this comic and top comment made me think of the floating, talking Crunchwrap in Upload.

    5. Needfuldoer

      They only have about seven ingredients they mash together in different combinations. Surely it can’t take too long to isolate the least trustworthy one and clear the rest.

      1. C.T Phipps

        Joyce’s diet for the rest of her life is a bean burrito and mac and cheese.

        Maybe plain cheese pizza.

        Mind you, I think the funniest joke of all time in the strip was her swallowing the 5 dollar sushi roll without tasting it.

  2. QueenofSodor

    sadly, Headmaster Dorothy was the biggest shelfwarmer of the whole toyline

    1. QueenofSodor

      (very happy to have one of the bookmarks with this strip on it btw)

  3. Quinn

    Didn’t Joyce kiss Dorthy after getting a weighted blanket from Joe? If you don’t remember Joyce was VERY grateful for the gift.

    1. Bill Erak

      Willis specifically said Joyce brushed her teeth before the kiss lmaoooooo

      1. Quinn

        Now I just feel silly.

      2. GholaHalleck

        how many times did he have people asking if she did before he had to make the comment though?

    2. Doopyboop

      Checked the archives and no kisses were exchanged after the Joe gifting, not until the next day after they talked to Daisy, in-between which both had already had a shower that morning as well as likely brushing their teeth before bed and after waking up, so thankfully Dorothy is in the clear there. Honestly I imagine there was an offscreen exchange like “okay but seriously you need to go brush your teeth” “oh shit will my mouth become pregernant?”

  4. Bill Erak

    They’re being cute together, billions must die

    1. Yet_One_More_Idiot

      Would be even cuter if we got to see them playing footsies, rather than Joyce just claiming they are. :3

      1. Leadsynth

        Bonus strip vote for Joyce’s Feet?

        1. Yotomoe

          That would be an incredibly dangerous precedent to set.

    2. Deanatay

      Of mouth bacteria, right? On it!

    3. C.T Phipps

      I will make an irrational complaint about them because there isn’t enough hatred.

      “Joyce once wasted 5 dollars by not tasting a sushi roll Dorothy paid for! Worst relationship ever!”

      1. Jon

        If that single piece cost $5, the entire roll would’ve had to be at least 40.

        I’m not saying sushi **can’t** be that expensive, but teenagers would absolutely not be eating a roll that pricey.

  5. Doopyboop

    I gotta admit that last panel is very relatable.

    1. Doopyboop

      Also gonna share a little joke/anecdote because this is a strip set in and talking about Taco Bell; when I was probably about 5, I was in the backseat of the car and my parents were in the front discussing what fast food to get and they both were like “Oh, yeah, Taco Bell’s a good idea”. My disgruntled 5 year old ass screwed my face up and called up to them, “[My name] don’t like Taco Bell” and they both gave me a look and laughed, cause they were my parents so they already knew I wouldn’t eat anything from Taco Bell and were planning to get me something else from somewhere else, but it became an in joke for years afterward that if anyone mentioned Taco Bell one of my parents would reply “[My name] don’t like Taco Bell”, and I’d get in on it too. It was a fun in-joke and I still do it with my dad whenever I pick him up his Doritos locos tacos supremes.

  6. Ray

    So if the crunchwrap is gross stuff, wot de heck is JOYCE eating???

    1. Dot

      Pure bean burrito

    2. nadamás

      She is eating a burrito a completely different thing,!

    3. Sirksome

      Maybe it’s just the tortilla lettuce and cheese. You can order that at Taco Bell. I’ve done it before.

      1. Shakes

        If Joyce is anything like my autistic food aversion ass lettuce will not be anywhere near that thing.

        1. Thag Simmons

          Honestly a 100% cheese filled tortilla doesn’t sound half-bad.

        2. Dot

          They literally sell that in multiple varieties at Taco Bell.

        3. Thag Simmons

          I have very limited direct experience with Taco Bell. I think there’s been like one in my area and I don’t think it exists anymore.

        4. Dwampre Scorrigank

          No one experiences Taco Bell directly, it creates a gas cushion around itself and floats through you like an air hockey table

        5. Leadsynth

          That’s just a quesadilla

        6. Irreleverent

          This is so funny, since lettuce is one of the safest foods for me. The Food Autism is so fuckin arbitrary.

        7. Shakes

          Everybody is eating their own dish at the autism potluck.

        8. Nymph

          BYOD to the Autism Potluck!

        9. NGPZ

          I’m bringing my special kool aid chicken!

        10. Random832

          yeah back when i was a kid it was “meat and cheese tacos” all the way.

    4. John Campbell

      Tortilla filled with nothing but the smoothest, reddest hot sauce they have.

      1. Risky

        The best part of the regular burrito is the sauce so sure

      2. deliverything

        Relevant strip:
        https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/03-me-and-who-you-say-i-was-yesterday/texture/

  7. Slartibeast Button, BIA

    Too bad she doesn’t have spare heads, like Kryten.

    1. Pocky

      Three headed Cerberus Dorothy when?

    2. Olofa

      Princess Langwidere has entered the chat.

  8. Sirksome

    What the heck’s in that burrito then? I feel like the concept of a burrito is the antithesis of Joyce’s food philosophy. Isn’t just a bunch of “gross” stuff touching wrapped in a tortilla?

    1. Dot

      Someone else suggested it’s just beans

    2. Doopyboop

      https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-13/02-turning-saints-into-the-sea/bounty/ From their last taco bell date

      1. Sirksome

        I respect it I guess. I’d say it was a waste of money but I don’t like Taco Bell so any purchase there is a waste to me. Just beans might be a convenient workaround though in a pinch.

        1. Doopyboop

          Oh ditto, I’m not a Taco Bell fan myself either. I just get food from literally anywhere else but when you’re out and about with another person it can be difficult to try and navigate getting food from a different place. I’m not even a big bean fan so I think if I was with someone who wanted to get taco bell I’d just grab a drink and watch them eat.

    3. Reltzik

      It’s a uniform paste originally composed of beans and possibly cheese.

      Frankly, I’m surprised that the tortilla exterior isn’t a problem.

      …. no one ask Joyce why it’s not a problem.

      1. Sirksome

        I think Joyce has actually answered this before, that certain foods operate more like a method of conveyance than food itself like the bun of a hotdog, but I could be misremembering that or made it up entirely.

        1. Clif

          Don’t trust buns, unless their Dorothy’s.

        2. Clif

          *they’re

      2. Alexander Krizak

        Bread-based delivery systems for the uniform ingredients Joyce consumes appear to be fine. See also: pizza, sandwiches.

  9. Dafydd

    It’s Taco Bell. If Dorothy has to poop it out first, Joyce won’t be in for a long wait

  10. Astariel

    I have to admit, their drinks adventure makes a much better first date than lunch at Taco Bell.

    1. Dara

      And that was extremely a date. And a good one. I mean, Joyce said she’d glassed someone before and she’d do it again, and I believed her. That’s quality dating right there.

      1. Throwatron

        personally i don’t want to date anyone who won’t glass somebody at the appropriate place and time

      2. Nymph

        You believed her because it’s true!

        Hope the HTML works! If not, it’s Ryan. She glassed Ryan.

    2. Big Z

      Can’t argue with that, although Taco Bell is a perfectly cromulent date if you’re broke — almost everyone can get SOMETHING to eat there, and it’s not especially pricey.

      1. Jon

        When my wife and I were first dating, half of the time I’d be taking her to Burger King – reliable, within my extremely limited budget, and we were living in San Diego at the time so going to Taco Bell would have been a capital offense.

        1. Big Z

          As with most fast food places, Taco Bell operates in that “good enough to pass if you’re not in the food’s home territory” space, similarly to how Popeye’s is quite good enough if you’re not actually in the American South but you’d be a fool to go to one in Georgia or Louisiana.

    3. Jon

      Someone pointed out that if their first date was drinks, they’ve been (emotionally) cheating on their partners for even longer (we’re Dorothy and Walky back together by then?).

      I support this as it prompts further mess.

  11. Alongcameaspider

    What can Joyce even eat at Taco Bell, a bean burrito?

    Multiple kinds of food touching is kind of a big thing for burritos

    1. Dot

      Yes she has very literally eaten just bean burritos there

    2. Reltzik

      I think she could handle a cheese quesadilla.

      … at least, I hope she could handle a cheese quesadilla.

      1. Throwatron

        I’m genuinely shocked that it’s plain bean burritos she eats and not plain cheese quesadillas. To me, the latter thing is way more people’s Safe Food at Taco Bell.

        1. Throwatron

          “in my experience” was a better way to say that but i’m not meant to be awake right now

        2. eh, whatever

          I’m amazed she can stand cheese at all, but, hey, America. She grew up with cheese being everywhere.

        3. Throwatron

          cheese also has the benefit of a pleasing, uniform texture, a mild taste, and the ability to be enjoyed entirely on its own. In my experience, kids be loving cheese

        4. Jon

          Plain cheese quesadilla is one of my daughter’s safe foods, but from a much better Mexican place. 🙂

        5. Yotomoe

          God i love plain quesadillas. Like in a general sense. Like a Mexican grilled cheese sandwich, you dont need anything else!

        6. Throwatron

          it’s great because any 2 ingredients make a great quesedilla, except if you want, BOTH of those ingredients can be cheese!

        7. Freemage

          I make a truly awful quesadilla every morning, and it’s still a better option than anything I’d get at that hour before going to work (shredded 4-cheese, tortilla, hot sauce, microwave for one minute). No frying or toasting of the thing, just heating up in the small nuclear device over the stove.

  12. RassilonTDavros

    Honestly my food issues have been a lifelong source of anxiety over potential relationships, so I really feel this one. Your feeling I can feel deeply.

    chew

  13. tim gueguen

    Isn’t Taco Bell food 80 percent gross things even if you like Mexican food? My parents had some once and were not impressed.

    1. Clif

      Taco Bell is never going to be as good as actual Tex-Mex. But for fast and cheap, it’s acceptable.

    2. Throwatron

      It’s in the fast food realm of “it’s good enough because you’re not expecting it to be good in the first place.”

  14. Thing 2

    Looks up crunchwrap. My daily education about non-food food.

    1. Thing 2

      Well, I have been in the dark. I thought tacos were hard shells. But these things seem to be variations on what I would call a wrap. But I like the idea of masa flour ones, being allergic to wheat.

      1. Clif

        Sounds like you’re confusing tacos with taco shells. But yes, tace shells can be hard or soft, and the soft ones were the original kind.

      2. The Queer Agenda [frog memes]

        Yep, soft corn tortillas were the original and most ‘authentic’ taco vessel, as it were. Wheat was a colonial food. Using flour tortillas for tacos is primarily a northern Mexican regional thing, but that happens to be the area closest to Americans.

  15. Amós Batista

    One-ingredient-taco sounds, at same time, boring and pretty awesome.

    1. Clif

      You just need a lot of different one-ingredient tacos and you’re golden.

      1. Throwatron

        okay, i’ll allow it, but we’re getting dangerously close to just reinventing samosas on this train of thought

  16. Tricia

    Why is that crunchwrap so tiny?

    1. Taffy

      It involves a combination of economic inflation and this very comic. Google “Dumbing of Age inflation” to learn more.

      1. StClair

        I have not and will not do that, and recommend in the strongest possible terms that you do not either.
        (My prediction/assumption is that the search results will include things you cannot unsee.)

      2. Irreleverent

        Honestly there’s no good inflation content on the internet these days. That search doesn’t even yield any proper smut.

        1. Throwatron

          Artists found out that AI scrapers were on DeviantArt, and so they deleted all the sacred texts

      3. FacelessDeviant

        Absolutely diabolical!

        I salute you!

      4. Nymph

        This is maybe my favorite thing you’ve ever done. Downright whimsical.

      5. Taffy

        The funny thing is, it would be the same results if you just looked up “dumbing of age fanart”.

        1. Big Z

          It’s the curse of the Internet, really.

  17. Cheshrin

    As much as I do agree with Dorothy’s assessment that the drinks date should totally be viewed As A Date retroactively, I disagree with her assessment that Taco Bell is an insufficient first date for them. You’re dating Joyce “Hopeless Romantic” Brown, Dorothy, she could romanticize a first date at Blowjob Cat.

    (My agreement with Joyce about the Crunchwrap depends on whether it’s a Crunchwrap Supreme or a Black Bean Crunchwrap. Crunchwrap Supremes are delicious, but I do not fuck with black beans.)

    1. Cheshrin

      I’ve also noticed a habit where Joyce is eager to define their relationship by one method, only for Dorothy to shut it down. Dorothy doesn’t want to view Mutual Laundry Masturbation as sex and Joyce does, Dorothy doesn’t want Taco Bell to be their first date and Joyce does, Dorothy explicitly stated her desire to dress Joyce Sexy-Like but shut down Joyce’s interest in having lingerie bought for her… It really does feel like the two of them aren’t on the same page here.

      Which leads me to say this: if this leads to Dorothy and Joyce realizing their romantic attraction is not the same thing as their romantic compatibility and that they want wildly different things from their relationship, leading them to break up very soon after and subsequently grapple with the fact that they torpedoed every bridge they had over a four-day fling, I will not only recant every kvetch I have ever kvetched, but I will personally draw myself buying and eating a hat.

  18. Alongcameaspider

    Also I’d like to take the Taco Bell being a topic of the strip as an opprotunity to point out that the quesarito (also known as the only menu item worth a damn at that place) is back at Taco Bell

  19. Smooti

    Anyone else have a Taco Bell situation with their partner? Mine I can’t kiss if he’s recently eaten a banana or deli meat. I don’t care how long ago it was I can still smell it until the mouth is clean!!

  20. Andrusi

    Dorothy getting head.

    There, it’s been said, you can all relax now.

    1. Taffy

      Dorothy getting her cock sucked.

      1. GholaHalleck

        Second place to Joe again.

      2. QueenofSodor

        oh god thats right, need to finish the sequel drawings to Dorothy Keener’s Diminutive Hog

        1. Throwatron

          I know there’s a good joke about a teacup pig in this bit, but I’m too tired to work it out

        2. Throwatron

          She’s a grower, not a sow-er? Is that something?!

    2. Andrusi

      I said you can all relax now.

  21. Taffy

    They’re gonna finish eating and then they’re gonna go fuck in the stall, aren’t they.

    1. Freemage

      Even in her current state of euphoria, I don’t think Joyce would be able to manage bathroom fucking. At least not without breaking the law of gravity, so they can float midair without touching anything in the room whatsoever.

  22. Shakes

    Oh joy now I have to have a tab open to understand what everyone is talking about.
    Americans and their propensity to bloviate about fast food is one of the bigger annoyances as a Not American. My god do you people love talking about fast food.

    1. Taffy

      Oh, stuff it. Every fucking culture on Earth never shuts the fuck up about its food.

      1. Shakes

        Food is being generous in some of these cases.

        1. Taffy

          Okay, multiple servings of blended milk and ice cream.

        2. NGPZ

          indeed, this is the United States and THE CUP RUNNETH OVER

          (and not in a good way ?)

        3. Throwatron

          HOW are we running these cups over, when the cups are so dang big???

      2. Bill Erak

        Yeah but most cultures have like. Real food to brag about. I’m argentinian, for example, and we have the beast meat in the fucking world. And Dulce de Leche.

        1. Reaver

          what beast meat do you use?

        2. Bill Erak

          These beings known as “cows.” Or “pigs”. Sometimes even “sheep”. I know, crazy.
          (don’t tell Dina about the chickens)

        3. Doopyboop

          Some American food worth of bragging about is Southern BBQ as well as breakfasts. Honestly there are other meals worth bragging about in this country too but being a melting pot means sometimes the best meals to discuss are Americanized versions of meals from other countries that were brought here and evolved over time.

        4. Taffy

          Nobody’s even bragging though. They’re literally just admitting Taco Bell exists.

        5. Jon

          Let’s be honest – even Taco Bell isn’t bragging about Taco Bell.

        6. YourCousinJay

          I like making fun of deep fried butter as much as the next person but lets not pretend like some states don’t make some amazing food either. Southern BBQ, Tex-Mex fusion, a ton of Gastronomy, Cajun Food, Soul Food.

          Stuff rules

        7. zee

          Yeah this is low-key just. Erasing all of black people’s and immigrants’ contribution to cuisine in the US to boil it down to fast food chains

        8. Clif

          It’s kind of an equal opportunity dumbing down of cuisine though. Have you eaten in a Boston Market?

        9. zee

          I have never been further north in the US than Atlanta (excluding Maryland) so no I’m sorry I don’t have context

        10. StClair

          That’s because, IMO, when you take away all of that, there’s hardly anything left. That’s the story of “American” cuisine (and music, and culture, and…)

        11. Briar

          Well when you take away the mix of immigrant food from the country of immigrants yes theres going to be nothing left. American food is a mix and always has been.

    2. Thing 2

      But it’s educational. I learn so much about the weird things USAvians eat and have, in my time, found hilarity in trying to explain the weird things that UKavians eat. I might even have found a new thing to eat. Masa flour was an awesome discovery for me.

      1. Shakes

        I would like to try some of the sandwiches that place comes up with.

      2. Throwatron

        never seen USAvians and i’m immediately in love

    3. Alongcameaspider

      This seems like a silly comment since Taco Bell has been expanding into Europe since 2008

      1. Throwatron

        i’m genuinely shocked that it’s as recent as ’08

    4. QueenofSodor

      very tickled seeing your username above a comment about fast food bc every time i see it i assume its short for ‘milkshakes’

      but maybe the americagoggles talking, idk

      1. QueenofSodor

        *but maybe that’s the etc. etc

        im gonna go make things right with my dad

      2. Shakes

        Partially Gelatinated Gum Based Non-Dairy Beverage doesn’t fit in most name fields.

        1. Clif

          ParGel-GuBaNoDa-bev. It’s no great Shakes of a name.

  23. Thing 2

    Dorothy seems to be struggling a bit with eating. Possibly Joyce isn’t eating, just holding and talking. Maybe this is a metaphor for something. Not a petit four anyway.

  24. Theozilla

    With how big of a buffer Willis has, I wonder if there would be a benefit to Willis doing like a binge drop of the next arc/book or two-worth of strips so readers could understand the bigger picture of what Willis is going for with the plot development that occurred over this last half-year. Because of how great the emotional fallout has been for so many characters, readers are simply too impatient to see the narrative consequences play-out at the normal daily pace.

    1. Doopyboop

      Honestly the buffer is something that’s a big benefit for Willis as it is, because he has months of work stacked up ahead of time so if anything happens IRL, he doesn’t have to rush to any deadlines. And considering how most webcomics might update once a week, if you’re LUCKY, I think the daily pace is something that’s getting a bit… taken for granted, maybe? I mean, I’m a longtime and still current reader of Ava’s Demon and that comic has had years long hiatuses in the past.

      1. Theozilla

        Oh it’s no doubt something we take for granted, but I think it’s also what “allows” (for lack of a better word) for DoA to have such a relatively slow pacing narratively compared to a lot of other web-comics. Because Willis has the ability to chug out so many strips to the extent that they have such a huge buffer, DoA’s pacing naturally trends towards a decompressed pacing style, and such a style can be very frustrating for readers when its covering certain subject matter.

        1. Doopyboop

          I get that but it also still isn’t necessarily just a DOA thing. Like Ava’s Demon, the comic I mentioned? Love it, it’s beautiful art. In-comic, however, we’ve also been on events that have happened over the course of… maybe a couple days? And the comic is 13 years old. At least DOA has had 6 months in-comic over the course of 15 years.

        2. Jon

          Tbf, half of those months were skipped – they didn’t even reach Halloween.

          Your point stands though

        3. Doopyboop

          You have a good point there too.

        4. Sirksome

          This is a problem with all comics and long form stories told over time in general. I read a webcomic called Grrl Power. It’s a silly comic about superheroes with lots of gags mixed with action. It’s technically still 2012 the year the comic started and the main character hasn’t even finished her first year of training.

          Of how about One Piece. The most popular manga and possibly comic story in the world. In over 25 years of publication only 2 years have passed in the current story if you don’t count all the flashbacks. Ten tears of that story was also only 3 months and infamously over one year of reading was actually only one day in the manga. I think Oda may have beaten that record now though.

        5. thejeff

          Mainstream super-hero comics: Peter Parker was in high school in 1962.

        6. Freemage

          Well, to be fair, a lot of mainstream superhero comics have an… unusual relationship with time, especially the ones that started out in the golden and silver ages. Willis at least has a calendar that is adhered to. Older comics just assumed everyone was held in amber until the editors decided, “Okay, let’s make them all college kids, now”.

          Which made a lot of sense, in part because comics were ‘kids stuff’ and the assumption was that you could essentially publish a reworked version of an 8-year-old storyline and no one would care, because everyone who read it the first time around would’ve discovered girls.

        7. David M Willis

          so far in this strip only danny has been held in amber

        8. Taffy

          Oh, like because they had sex.

        9. Reaver

          Then just take a break and come back and read it in one swoop?

        10. Dwampre Scorrigank

          Most webcomics are more enjoyable in a binge than a daily update, it’s a fact of life. These are authors making long stories (unless it’s a gag-a-day comic), and they may consider the long term value to the story more than the individual day’s entertainment value. IMO Willis usually strikes a balance with both but that’s not a responsibility. It’s kind of obvious on other forums when people are like “[whatever comic] used to be so good but now it sucks, the glory days were back in [time period that coincidentally ended when I got caught up and became a regular update reader]”.

          So I agree, nothing wrong managing one’s enjoyment by taking breaks and binging chunks. And some storylines in particular may benefit from this behavior more than others.

        11. Throwatron

          Sure but – and I want to stress that I know you mean nothing bad by this – the whole point of having a buffer, is to have excess labour done in case of an emergency or life event, without it causing economic stress. It’s technically entirely possible to just drop 2 months of strips at once! But, when you break it down, you’re asking a worker to dump two months of their economic livelihood on us in the span of one day, so that we can all maybe stop being whiny babies about not getting instant gratification from their labour.

          You wouldn’t ask someone in any other industry, to sacrifice two full years worth of their paid vacations for your mere convenience, right? ‘Cause that’s ultimately the magnitude of this ask: “please completely devalue a huge amount of your labour, so that we might have a little bit more fun immediately.”

          At the end of the day, the comic being somewhat less satisfying, to some of the audience, for a few months time, is not a valid reason for Willis to throw 2 months worth of their career into the bin just to placate some of their audience. Nobody in any industry should be doing that for anyone.

        12. Adept

          Throwatron is 100% correct. If somebody needs a 2 month stack of strips in a single delivery, they need to bookmark and take a two month break before returning.

        13. thejeff

          In purely economic terms, it might make sense if the comic was seeing a big drop off in terms of views/patreon subscribers/etc and Willis thought that seeing where he was going would bring the audience back. Or at least stop the decline.

          I don’t think there’s any evidence that’s the case though. Obviously, he’s got the data and we don’t, but I don’t think there’s reason to think readers are leaving in droves.

        14. Nymph

          Willis has pretty explicitly said the exact opposite on their Bluesky, so I absolutely agree they don’t have any reason to go torching two months of their buffer just to appease a few people who can’t wait for the comic to chug along.

          I honestly doubt the people who are complaining the most would put the money out to buy the books of extra strips anyway. The people who want the most say in your work are usually the ones engaging in it completely for free.

        15. Throwatron

          I felt that last sentence in my soul. I never thought about it in that particular way, but holy shit, it’s way too true.

        16. Clif

          We should start a fund to bribe Willis to stick extra strips of Joyce and Dorothy being cute together into the buffer.

          At a minimum, we should enjoy it while it lasts.

        17. C.T Phipps

          I’ve been reading Willis since before Dumbing of Age started, I’m not going to drop it over the fact I find some of the strips less cute than others.

        18. apocryphascribe

          This is the way. Nothing I, or anyone else, have to complain and whine about would justify Willis throwing out a ton of buffer for us to read in advance. That’s not only bad business….but like, you and I know damn well it wouldn’t actually solve the real issue most of the “pacing” complaints are actually about.

          Which is that we’re bored. That’s the issue. And a ton of buffer being released isn’t guaranteed to solve that – I can actually imagine pretty clearly in my minds eye 2 months of comics being dumped and having us still in the part of the story that is DoJo fluff, and not DoJo plot – so as far as I’m concerned, there’s functionally zero benefit to him doing it.

        19. apocryphascribe

          Zero benefit and nothing but downsides, I should stress.

        20. Clif

          I kind of feel I’m winning on both ends. I get to enjoy the Joyce and Dorothy interactions and then I get to enjoy all the drama of people dropping in every day to inform us how much they hate it.

        21. apocryphascribe

          Hey, unironically, I’m glad you’re getting something out of all of this!

        22. Freemage

          Heh. The haters have actually gotten me to revoke my Paladin status. Now I want Joyce going down on Dotty, who shouts how much better Joyce is than Walky, who happens to be sitting in the next room, hearing everything, while the ghost of Mike drinks his tears.

        23. apocryphascribe

          @Freemage I agree, that would be way better!

    2. Nyzer

      I think if Willis was going to drop any spoilers, it really should just be in the form of a vague statement. Definitely don’t agree with the idea of burning a huge chunk of the buffer, even as someone rather unsatisfied with the story since the tear gas wedding.

      I would NEVER advocate for Willis’ work ethic in building such a huge buffer to be rewarded by having to rip a huge chunk out of it just to deal with a portion of the audience being dissatisfied.

    3. Thag Simmons

      Seems obviously not worth burning a very hard built buffer in a desperate bid to appease people that definitely would not work

      1. Nyzer

        I mean, it might work depending on what other shoe would be dropped on it. But it still wouldn’t be worth it anyway.

    4. Nymph

      Readers who cannot wait for the daily comic strip to play out one strip per day… probably just aren’t the target readers? Why burn his buffer and make a bunch of extra work for himself just to mollify a dozen or so readers who are impatient? Seems silly.

      1. Adept

        That ”dozen or so” is dismissive and rude, and I suspect with full intention. You have made your disdain plain as day many times before, and it’s not helping your argument any here.

        1. Nymph

          lmfao

          You don’t know me, please do your best to bear that in mind when deciding you know how I feel when I write any particular comment.

          I meant “the dozen or so who are impatient” because I don’t think “impatience” is the prevailing reason people are upset about what’s going on in the comic. Not because I’m under the mistaken impression that there are only a dozen or so people upset.

          You being upset doesn’t mean I was trying to upset you. I also don’t care in the slightest what your opinion is on “my argument”… whatever you believe that to be.

        2. Adept

          Again, starting with lmfao tells me everything about the tone and intention of your rather long reply.

          I’ll just do my best to skip over your texts from now on, like I do with Taffy. Life’s too short for intentionally rude people.

        3. Clif

          Come on Adept. With just a little bit of effort you can turn the passive-aggressive up to 10. I have faith in you.

        4. Taffy

          I didn’t do shit, keep my name it of it.

        5. Taffy

          *out of it, rather.

          “It” being any situation in which I didn’t do shit. Like this one. Stop fucking blaming me for everything that goes wrong in your life, you professional fucking victim.

        6. Nymph

          Sorry you caught a stray

        7. Taffy

          Wasn’t even fuckin’ doing anything, Adept is just obsessed with me for some reason, to the point I don’t even need to be around to get brought up. I get blamed for shit other people said and did just by existing. I’m not even a person to Adept, just a convenient scapegoat for everything that’s mildly negative in their life. I could explode myself with a cartoon bomb on live TV, and if they stubbed their toe even years later, it’d be my fault somehow.

        8. zee

          Dang kids on my lawn

        9. Thing 2

          Adept: It is tremendously easy to get into arguments in this kind of communication even by accident. So, please, don’t go looking for things to get into arguments about. Are you new to social media? It works differently. You have to *actively* see the best in what people are trying to say.
          You picked on Taffy suddenly, but read Taffy’s comments for a while and you will see an ascerbic sense of humour, not active malice. If you choose Adept as a name, be adept in communicating!

        10. Nymph

          Adept came up here looking for one of my comments they thought they could start a legitimate beef with because I responded to them below in a way they didn’t like, but apparently couldn’t argue with.

          So, yeah, I think they came here looking for an argument. I appreciate that people didn’t pile on and instead tried talking them down. I don’t think it’ll work, but I think it’s the right idea.

        11. Adept

          ”suddenly”. Thing is, when people tell me who they are, I believe them the first time.

        12. Taffy

          I’m not going to fuck you, stop name-dropping me unprovoked.

        13. Taffy

          No no, I guess I did personally kill their parents in front of them when they were 5 years old.

        14. Nymph

          lmao yeah, you do that

        15. Big Z

          Based on what Willis has said about his Patreon numbers etc, I suspect that Nymph is MUCH closer to the actuality of the situation than not — most of the readership seems to be perfectly fine with how things are going, even if there are dozens of us occasionally griping in the comments.

        16. Throwatron

          99% of people just are not gonna make long diatribes about how much they’re passively enjoying something. It’s one of the main constants of internet discourse on media. You’re only ever going to hear from anybody who is having a problem. “I ate a hamburger and it was good” is not a sentiment people are highly motivated to scream into a void; “I ate a hamburger, and ended up in the hospital, here’s where I got the hamburger” is something people feel compelled to post.

          If this is a concept anybody can’t understand, I implore them to avoid comment sections entirely.

        17. thejeff

          This is true, but doesn’t necessarily mean that a sustained rise in the number of vocal critics is meaningless.
          Most people probably aren’t going to comment at all. A larger percentage of upset readers might comment, but it’s still going to be a pretty small percentage of even the upset ones.
          And a decent number of regulars – who do comment here even when they’re not angry – are among the gripers, so it’s not just a matter of only hearing about the problems.

        18. Nymph

          Appreciate you! I really did mean specifically people who were “impatient” (since that’s what I said lmao) but even if I meant what Adept thought… yeah there really are just an overwhelming number of readers who are fine with this or not bothered enough to comment in either direction. You’re absolutely right.

        19. Big Z

          Yeah, I honestly mostly felt the need to jump in because I’m (kinda) one of the “impatient” folks (but not in the sense of not understanding how a daily strip works 😀 ) and nothin’ you said was particularly insulting, just true.

    5. Rogue 7

      I think folks have made excellent points about why dropping a few months of strips in one day doesn’t make much sense.

      I *do* think having the buffer so prominently displayed is making folks’ pacing problems worse.

      Because, at least in my experience reading this comic, the strips in the buffer really seem to be locked in- they don’t get changed at all. Not even the alt-text. It was a big deal when Willis said that they were going to add a few strips here and there to increase Asma & Raidah’s roles and the buffer changed to reflect that, despite it being *very* clear that Willis was adding and adjusting a few strips, not throwing out months of completed ones.

      At least personally, the existence of such a big buffer means I wish Willis wasn’t so tight-lipped about upcoming storylines. If Willis would be willing to say “yeah, they’re cute right now, but trust me, the other shoe is going to drop in X months’ time or so” I think folks would be more sanguine. But honestly the way they’ve been presenting folks criticizing their work, it’s making me expect more of the same going forward.

      1. Adept

        Same Rogue7, unfortunately

      2. apocryphascribe

        Agreed, being able to see how long the buffer is doesn’t bring me any benefits as a reader, only mild frustration about how slow things are right now.

      3. Clif

        Rogue 7, I’m curious why you think the alt-text is locked in. Did I miss something Willis said?

        1. Rogue 7

          Couple of reasons: I remember a strip coming out where the alt-text was Willis talking about how they found out Kevin Conroy passed. Obviously that strip aired several months after Mr. Conroy passed.

          Willis commenting about how incredulous they are that commenters think alt-text written months ago applies to a comment made the day before.

          And a number of other alt-texts that only make sense if they were written alongside the comic- like “today I hit a 10 month buffer” being an example.

  25. The Rev

    She said poop

  26. Sirksome

    Good thing Dorothy put a stop to qualifying the Taco Bell date as their first one. That has proven to be a bad omen for the longevity of your relationship.

    https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/04-hompk/attheborder/

    1. Thing 2

      In that one, isn’t Walky eating a crunchy, shape holding taco? That’s what I thought a taco was…

      1. Tacos are important to me

        Tacos come in two/ three varieties: flour tortilla (soft shell, as Walky is eating here) and corn tortilla (can be soft or crunchy/ hard shell).

        The pre-crunchy taco shells bought in a store are often considered white person tacos or less authentic/ more commercial. A corn tortilla can be fried to make it a crunchy taco.

        If you’re from certain parts of Southwest America, you could also get a frybread taco! But it looks different.

        I’m from certain parts of Southwest America and this is apparently very important to me.

        1. Throwatron

          I didn’t even notice your name until after finishing your post, and the comedic timing I created for myself was sublime

        2. eh, whatever

          Same here!

        3. Mitzi B.

          tacos are important! thank you for your contribution!

        4. apocryphascribe

          Today’s strip was made for you, friend.

  27. Fail Earnhardt

    Well I guess we know who tops now

  28. John Campbell

    I’m actually pretty sure that this was their first date.

    1. Thing 2

      We never saw it happen tho, did we?

      1. John Campbell

        No, though the next couple strips suggest that it did. We cut to Billie coming out of the closet after that.

  29. Lanz

    As a Crunchwrap mainstayer, I gotta ask the obvious: What’s the Crunchwrap order?

    [mine usually goes: Steak+Cantina Chicken+Refried beans+Three cheese Blend+Rice+Lettuce+sour cream+Red Sauce+Chipotle sauce]

    1. Cheshrin

      I’m a simple bongo with simple Taco Bell needs: Crunchwrap supreme, swap the tomatoes for onions. Pair with a soft taco with avocado ranch sauce and a refresca whose caffeine count is determined by how badly my migraine needs it. Lunch: achieved.

  30. Arianod

    If Joe could do it, so can you ^^

  31. Dragonfire

    Oh, this one was included on the new bookmarks, wasn’t it? It’s cute.

  32. NGPZ

    The Hater Containment Thread has been compromised

    Hater Containment Breach Warning Protocol activated

    1. John Campbell

      Jesus Christ give it a rest already.

      1. shepsquared

        The hater thread is gone, what more do you want? This isn’t even a negative comment, who cares?

    2. Shepsquared

      It’s interesting to see the comment total stay the same when so many vanish.

    3. Laura

      I hope you’re feeling better, NGPZ. ???

      1. NGPZ

        Physically? Still a lot of pain but at least its a little less now, also less redness, more itching. Just finished my last day of Mupirocin, still got a few days left on Keflex

        Mentally? agony honestly, trying my best to just get comfortably numb

        *plays “Horse Steppin’ by Sun Araw on hacked muzak*

        1. Laura

          Wishing you mental peace and beauty in your life, NGPZ. Such a lovely song. I had never heard it before. Thank you for sharing it.

  33. Acher4

    Joyce being Joyce. lol

  34. Kyulen

    Nope, I still don’t find these two cute. Not when they started off with cheating and continued with treating a whole bunch of other characters really shitty.

    1. Taffy

      We get it.

      1. nadamás

        It’s not like we expected anything to change on that front so reinstating fells redundant.

      2. shepsquared

        You don’t agree with other people’s opinions, we get it

        1. Clif

          But don’t stop telling us about it on our account.

        2. Taffy

          Did I say I disagreed? I don’t think any of the words I said are the words you’re pretending I said. I think you just made some kind of assumption.

        3. Clif

          Reasonably sure that shepsquared was addressing Kyulen and not you, but who knows.

        4. nadamás

          Nope, i can see it exactly under my own comment to taffy.

        5. Thing 2

          Yes, that’s where it *is*. Doesn’t mean that’s where Shepsquared intended it to be.

        6. Nadamas

          It seems more plausible that they

        7. shepsquared

          It’s exactly where it was meant to be.

        8. Taffy

          So your aim’s fine, you just felt like inventing new sentences.

    2. C.T Phipps

      Yeah, but that’s the set up.

      Joyce being “heroically gay” and missing the point of the actions she’s doing having consequences to hurt her friends and loved ones as well as possibly ruin the protest’s messaging.

      (Because Bulmeria isn’t X related to the RL state, I fully believe that Joyce barely knows the country exists)

      1. Adept

        It makes it even stranger, as the protests actually being about Israel would mean an ex-fundie _has_opinions_.

        1. thejeff

          While I certainly understand the reasons for not explicitly making the protests about Gaza, I hadn’t actually considered the fundie support for Israel in order to fulfill end-times prophecy angle. Those would have been fun discussions.

        2. Adept

          I feel it was a wasted opportunity, though of course the topic is extra spicy.

        3. C.T Phipps

          I can understand Willis’ hesitation.

          He’s hinted with great deft that Joyce has…opinions on Islam with her reaction to going with Raidah to her mosque when invited. Imagine what Joyce has been raised to believe about Palestine and its government.

          I mean, I know how I was raised to view it.

          oof.

        4. C.T Phipps

          I say deft because Willis isn’t repeating what is probably some pretty awful opinions that Joyce will have to confront even if she’s rejected other parts of her upbringing.

        5. thejeff

          I was thinking more about the whole “Jews need to control Israel and rebuild the Temple to fulfill end-times prophecy and bring about the rapture” angle than just attitudes towards Muslims.

        6. C.T Phipps

          I mean I am listing that as a thing Willis probably wanted to avoid using Bulmeria but it was absolutely on my mind as well as another thing taht could have been a major blow up.

          So I 100% agree and think that’s a thing Willis wouldn’t want to touch with a ten foot pole.

    3. Acher4

      And noone can actually point on those things in any panel.
      (cheating and mistreating)

      Whoooooops.

  35. Jay

    *clears throat* I’m uh, I’m going to take a sustained absence from the comments. I believe I’ve forgotten the human and need to take a step back to re-calibrate.

    I was half doing this already but uh just wanted to make a comment apologizing to Willis specifically. At my best of times I’ve just been an annoying whiney bitch the past few months and at worst I’ve been uh pretty fucking toxic I won’t deny.

    So uh, please, honestly, everyone enjoy. I’ll see y’all again in a few weeks

    1. Laura

      I hope it is a restful time away and that you feel refreshed when you come back.

      Take good care of YOU.??

    2. thenamelesssamurai

      Best of luck dude. Hope it goes well for you.

  36. Miroku2235

    Yet another strip where Joe seemingly stands in his dorm room alone, waiting for Joyce to come back and finish the conversation.

    1. apocryphascribe

      Willis is giving the game away by revealing that every character that isn’t Joyce or Dorothy is an NPC that turns off scripting and stands by until they enter either of the two’s activation perimeters. /s

      1. Clif

        Oh, thank goodness you included the /s. You had me going.

        I mean it’s pretty clear that Dorothy is just another NPC that happens to be prominent.

  37. Gotthammer

    Like if you as an author have previously publicly gloated about getting into a private Facebook group for a comic to complain about a plot (about how cheating bisexuals is incredibly harmful no less), while daily ragging on said strip publicly and in the sidebar of this very page, one could make the argument of we learned it from watching you.

    See also the divisive creation of the concept of “haters” who want Joyce branded with a scarlet letter etc. It’s the me sowing ha-ha this is awesome me reaping oh no! meme.

    And I would argue that the negative feedback has by and large been in good faith, honest, and constructive.

    Not that I am not sympathetic to today’s situation (For latecomers the hater thread, gone at time of writing this, was the first post and Willis themself responded asking why it could not have been left until later in the day), but if you write a divisive plot then foster the idea of sides amongst your community, you’re going to get sides amongst your community.

    I also think it is unfair to ask there be no negativity in these comments, in the general sense. This is not something Willis has said, to be clear, but something other commentators have. If you are enjoying something seeing others dislike it isn’t fun, sure, but the attitude of if you don’t have anything nice to say don’t say anything at all gets toxic real fast. Like it’s great u til something happens you don’t like and then you’re shut down.

    I will admit bias, those who saw my lengthy post on “””””bulmeria””””” a few days ago will know why, but I’m still going to argue that the vast, overwhelming majority of critique here comes from fans who are expressing their various issues and complaints about something they have loved by a creator they have supported for many, many years, and want to enjoy again.

    I know this is true because I’ve seen people say this, and far too often it was accompanied by a sadness that their attempts at constructive feedback was being characterised as wanting Joyce branded with a scarlet letter, or being unhappy that Dorothy wasn’t being scolded by a man.

    1. Nono

      Honestly I think it’s a pacing issue at this point. Joe has been left alone for months. Becky is finally getting some storyline but it’s still moving along bits and pieces. And I think people are getting frustrated when we keep cutting back to Joyce/Dorothy being coupley.

      Considering how long the storyline has dragged on and how much heated discussion it’s brought up due to everything surrounding it, feels like we could almost do with another Halloween-esque timeskip.

      1. Pegs

        Yeah, I think the storyline is fine in the broad strokes. It’s *just* the pacing that’s getting to me. So many strips that are just Dorothy and Joyce being cute. Even when it’s one like today’s which I’d probably like in other circumstances, it’s just kinda gotten old.

        1. thejeff

          Today feels like them just being cute – which as you say would be fine if there hadn’t been so much of it lately.
          They were also being cute yesterday though, but they were being cute in a way tied to advancing the story. They were talking about how to react to Dina and Becky splitting up, not just about them dating. A lot of the hater reaction still seemed to be just “More of them being cute”. I didn’t get that.

        2. Nono

          Best I can approximate is that because the protest/them getting together event spawned so many other threads, very few of which have actually been followed up on or has been left to dissatisfying exploration. Like Joe hasn’t been revisited, the protest response strips had to be inserted in (and people still aren’t satisfied with them), Walky has treated with indifference or light mockery. Becky is finally getting something and her plot with Dina keeps getting broken up and making baby steps of progress.

          Because of all this high pressure to finally advance some of these threads, strips of ‘cute Doyce stuff’ is met with frustration because it’s a combo of both ‘this isn’t progressing the stuff we want to see’ and ‘this feels like us trying to be sold the controversial/unpopular ship’.

          I think if the dust had settled on a lot of this stuff, the cutesy bits wouldn’t be having that big a response. We’ve seen a lot of cute stuff before with Danny/Sal or Becky/Dina during less big plot-filled books and they were received a lot better.

          But yeah, yesterday did advance the story a little. This one is a bit more stalling, so it’s got a bit worse reception.

        3. Bittersweet

          I had a pretty negative reaction yesterday, it had more to do with the fact that we cut away to Becky for one day before cutting back. The Becky stuff was new and seemed like it would go somewhere interesting (even if it led to Anna whom is a character I greatly dislike). Cutting back to Joyce and Dorothy guaranteed another “they’re so cute squish” strip if not multiple because that’s been the general pattern. Today’s strip could be omitted entirely and nothing happen, and I heard the preview looks like it goes back to Becky tomorrow so like… what was the point of cutting away? Cutting back?

          It’s just very frustrating to read because I just want to find out what happens next.

        4. Clif

          I’ve been reading Willis comics long enough to know that one day soon he’s going to be ripping our hearts out and then I’m going to wish that I had more memories of Joyce/Dorothy enjoying each other to sustain me.

        5. Big Z

          Right with you there — today’s strip is objectively good, but it takes on a lot of additional weight from the fact that DoJo have FELT like a boat anchor on the pace of events, not to mention the fact that it feels like less of “an ensemble comic with a couple focal points” and more like “they’re the main characters for real now”.

    2. Fail Earnhardt

      The cheating discourse overshadowing the much more questionable handling of the protest angle is a real “art imitating life” moment

      1. apocryphascribe

        At the same time, I’m sure there are lots of people who were satisfied by how Willis chose to address the protest stuff (me not included) and just stopped talking about it. The cheating stuff is taking prominence now because it was written as lightly and non-obtrusively as possible, has gone completely unaddressed, *and* a whole bunch of paratext stuff I’m not gonna get into involving author communication. It’s in many ways a microcosm of the pacing complaint, which is itself a microcosm of the “can we get to the part of the story that’s actually interesting (read: “part I’m interested in”) please” complaint.

        It’s pretty difficult to compare the different responses because one of them is directly about moral and ethical metanarrative decisions, and the other firmly about the long-standing structure of the comic getting in the way of enjoyment for a segment of the audience. The nature of the two is fundamentally different.

    3. Adept

      The more Willis doubles down an feeling hurt and lashing out on ”haters” of his perfect cinnamon rolls, the more bridges they burn.

      DoA was a favorite of mine for a decade, and I hope it recovers. I’ve been frankly shocked and disappointed by what I see in Willis’ social media posts.

      1. Bittersweet

        Yeah. Like, I wouldn’t be half as irritated with things if the pot hadn’t been deliberately stirred with polls, mocking posts, etc. like, all I wanted was better pacing and an interesting character arc for Walky (I don’t think I was ever on team “Joe will regress”). Didn’t like that the single most visible bisexual couple in the strip started by cheating, esp because the other bi couples have not been seen in like half a year—and as a bisexual person who recently was ok’d to open up their marriage to explore that [amusingly influenced by this storyline], being lumped in with others as a homophobic bigot not even by association but just because I had basic empathy for the characters… it did not feel good.

        And I don’t feel bad for feeling bad for Joe and Walky. This isn’t the first time I’ve been shamed for feeling bad for people who frankly deserve better. I don’t feel bad for wanting to see something happen. I don’t feel bad for participating in the hater thread because at least I wasn’t ragging on people’s days too hard outside of it (though I’m fallible and have a temper.) I do feel bad that this has negatively affected Willis personally.

        Anyways, I’ve been weaning myself off the comic by checking it later and later. I have trouble quitting a daily habit, but I got the message a while ago (probably when people suddenly started jumping on Yotomoe who has been a longtime commenter and a person in the comment section whom I’ve seen as pretty consistently respectful and enthusiastic) that I probably shouldn’t be part of the viewership anymore. Doyce isn’t my jam and the story isn’t going to shift on to any of the threads I find interesting anytime soon.

        1. Clif

          On the one hand, I’m all in favor of adding a poll on whether Willis should add extra strips of Dorothy and Joyce being cute.

          On the other, I’m genuinely sorry you feel that way.

          I do feel like I can disagree with Yotomoe about some things without it decreasing in the slightest how much I admire him.

        2. Yotomoe

          I often catch strays but its pretty rare I catch a stray compliment! <3

        3. Throwatron

          you shouldn’t be catching stray compliments, you’re great; anybody not complimenting you is off their rocker.

        4. Adept

          Yotomoe, you have been an absolute joy in these comments, and your fan art is amazing.

        5. thenamelesssamurai

          Gonna be real, you’re the only reason I started reading the comments, ngl. You are consistently one of the most thoughtful posters here, even when I happen to disagree with you. You are one of the best things about the comments section here, hands down.

        6. thenamelesssamurai

          *one of the best people in the comments section. I phrased that poorly.

        7. Yotomoe

          Jeez y’all. You’re gonna make me BLUSH.

        8. Nyzer

          I have to agree with much of this! I remember being pissed about the one fucko who replied to your poll with their unique custom option and the fact that you had to deal with that shit, because “no way Yotomoe deserves that”.

      2. Jon

        You know, Adept, between this and your other comments today, I’m reminded of an old saying –

        If it seems like everyone around you is an asshole, maybe it’s you.

        1. Adept

          Gee, thanks for the pile on. I bet that felt great.

        2. jflb96

          Advice more people should take before they say stupid stuff on the Internet.

          You, for example.

      3. Thing 2

        Lashing out or joking? I have read the author’s comments as (slightly pointed) jokes. Possibly because I feel the same way. People choose to read a comic, many of them entirely for free, and then apparently get upset about some fictional characters doing some fictional things (when I say upset, I don’t mean the people talking rationally about it), and start making unacceptably rude things. I too would (and have) poke fun at them.

    4. LiamKav

      I’m pretty sure the complaints about 9 Chickweed Lane aren’t “it’s furthering the harmful stereotype that all bisexuals cheat on each other” and more “it’s turned the only gay character it has straight during Pride Week, and it’s also full of horrificly sexist and borderline paedophilic commentary and art”.

      That’s very different from “college teenager cheats on her boyfriend and is not sufficiently guilty about it”.

      1. Rogue 7

        If you look at what Willis said at the time, they were mostly talking about the cheating bi stereotype.

        Hypocracy isn’t some grave sin or anything. We all do it, and even then you’re right that 9CL and DoA are very, very different comics with very different contexts for said bi cheating. It is in no way any sort of meaningful commentary on DoA’s current quality or plot to mention those posts.

        It *is* funny though, NGL.

    5. Kyulen

      Well said. I’ve been reading this comic for a very long time, and I feel like it’s rapidly gone downhill in the past several months. And Willis’ responses to criticism so far have not inspired much confidence in me that it will get better.

      1. Clif

        Well, the basic message is there, but it could be improved in so many ways. At a minimum you should throw in some antidotes about how the downfall of the comic has personally ruined your life and the lives of those you love. You could hire an editor to punch up your text and an insult artist to help you get more pointed digs at Willis.

        All too often it just seems like you are recycling the same basic complaints with no new material, and I can’t tell you how disappointing this is to those of us who come here every day to read your critique of the strip. Sometimes it like you just don’t care.

      2. Thing 2

        Kyulen, you keep saying how much you dislike stuff in a comic you choose to read. Yet you go on reading it. Is it that you actually do like the comic, or is it that you like complaining?

        1. Yotomoe

          When you’re really invested in a story you tend to stick with it even through parts that suck. One pieces dressrosa arc for me is a severe low point but getting through it is how we get to whole cake and wano. That doesn’t mean I won’t still complain about what an obnoxious slog dressrosa is.

        2. jflb96

          Here, let me help you understand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habit

    6. zee

      Thanks for the explanation on what happened. I only read this comic when i wake up and was wondering where the thread was and why the mood was so off. I thought it was brigaded by jerks again and/or if Willis made a statement somewhere

  38. C.T Phipps

    My take on Joyce and Dorothy is I like the plot but I want it to be a disaster because I find disasters in DOA fun to read. I don’t want anyone to hate on the characters because they’re the protagonists I’ve followed for decades.

    1. Fail Earnhardt

      I think most people reading suspect we’re building to an even bigger personal meltdown than the Becky/Dina situation, but until that happens we’re stuck in a feedback loop of “the end of the world is taking forever. The many nonplussed reactions in-story have also not helped. I could forgive somebody not used to Willis’ style and tempo concluding that they’re taking the easy way out in the name of yuri.

    2. Needfuldoer

      There won’t be conflict with Joyce and Dorothy until the author falls out of love with them. They’re “endgame”, remember? We hurried past all the conflict to get to the cutesy lovey-dovey soft part.

      1. thejeff

        Is that something that’s been said explicitly or is “endgame” a common assumption?

        1. Needfuldoer

          https://www.patreon.com/posts/original-strips-134187315

          “I’d workshopped different kinds of Joyce/Dorothy getting together moments, and something where Joyce, like, bodily forces herself through some kind of similar barrier to get to Dorothy, to save her, to be with her, that kind of vibe was always on my mind. And maybe that happens in some way later. Years later. Maybe a pre-timeskip moment the next time I do one of those, like for the strip’s 20th anniversary.

          and whoops as i put things together, i realized it was happening here, now”

        2. eh, whatever

          Terms not found: “endgame”

        3. Nymph

          It’s an assumption. I’ve asked repeatedly and no one ever answers with any example of Willis ever saying this. Sometimes the comments get an idea in their head and start talking about it like it’s a solid fact, which gets passed on and on and on until the person you’re asking has literally no idea if it’s true or not, they just know they’re annoyed about it.

        4. Needfuldoer

          It was going to happen, it just happened a lot sooner than originally intended.

          https://www.tumblr.com/dumbingofage/789056686007730176/just-out-of-curiosity-willis-how-long-has-this?source=share

        5. Nymph

          Okay? That has nothing to do with whether or not Willis considers them “endgame” or whether they’ll have conflict or not. It’s just an admission that the story moved faster than Willis originally planned.

          That happens sometimes when you’re writing. Unless you can show me something that says “they are endgame and will have no conflict” then I’m sorry but you’re just repeating previous incorrect things and throwing “proof” that has nothing to do with what you said.

        6. Clif

          As is well known, if you say something enough times, that makes it true.

        7. LiamKav

          The idea in an ongoing story the author will go “and these two characters will have no more drama and conflict because they are perfect for each other” is clearly ridiculous. As is the idea that DW has the ends of every single character set out in immutable stone and that he’ll never change his mind.

          This is the guy who decided to make his sentient car in to a trans robot girl because his wife made an offhand comment once.

        8. Mitzi B.

          “This is the guy who decided to make his sentient car in to a trans robot girl because his wife made an offhand comment once.”

          I didn’t know this bit of trivia, so I have to say: Thank You Maggie!

  39. Laura

    A little sad my pouring-my-heart-out comment got vanished alongside the thread. Ah, well. Probably for the best. A few brief shining moments, anyway. ?

    Just wanted to wish everyone some wellness today.

    1. Nyzer

      Sadly, I don’t think I caught that one

      1. Laura

        All good! Here’s a cup of tea instead. ??

    2. Needfuldoer

      Kvetch containment is over, kvetch metastasis has begun.

  40. missilentmurmur

    Since I started polyamory, I have not one, but two fussy eaters to accommodate. I might have a type

  41. IntangibleMatter

    Why should it be a date and not a prune?

    1. Needfuldoer

      Because every seventh date is a sundae.

    2. Laura

      ‘Cause there’s no man-date, for a change.

      (Pun: “mandate for change”.)

      1. Clif

        Hey, no explaining the joke.

        If you explain the joke, it files for a change of genre from comedy to documentary, and the paperwork is brutal.

        1. Laura

          We got ESL readers here, so puns get explained.
          🙂

        2. Clif

          Fair enough, and I withdraw my objection.

          Needfuldoer’s is funny because because days of the week are also dates and every seventh day of the week is a Sunday (sundae). IntangibleMatters is funny because dates and prunes are both dinosaurs.

  42. nadamás

    Does anyone else here fells drained after staying a bit too long in these comments? Like mentally exhausted and discomforted, the opposite of a serotonin boost.

    1. Throwatron

      I did back during the period where two halves of the commenters were straight slinging mud at each other and accusing one another of moral degeneracy for 1000 comments a day, but at this point, most of the squabbles are a lot less high stakes, so it’s easy to determine when I can glaze over an entire thread within the first 2-3 replies, and it’s easy to accept that even if I had something to add, that adding it at that time and place, wouldn’t be constructive for me or for those discussions.

      Things have mostly downgraded from everybody being monstrously unfair to each other, to occasional terse dialogues between a few people who happen to have opposing-but-particular views on one granular thing; the first thing triggers me, the second thing, I can accept, through choosing not to pay attention to it.

      This isn’t directed at anyone in particular, but holy crap y’all, learn to check out on comments/threads that are obviously going to enrage you, and convince you to waste a huge chunk of your energy and mental composure on squabbles that ultimately do not matter. I get everybody getting defensive when people were being called moral defectives on a daily basis; I was very inflammatory in response to that, and I don’t make any excuses for it, because to me, it was something worth being inflammatory about.

      IMO (and YMMV), nothing has risen to that timbre of disagreement since. The time for people to at least try to calm down, and maybe just individually avoid the topics that are going to consistently trigger them, already started weeks ago. We had a collective moral trauma within our readership; it makes sense a lot of people are still on edge; but, quite a lot of us, are choosing daily to stay on that edge, because we don’t want to back down.

      At the end of the day, if someone’s take or pattern of posting is so abhorrent to you as a reader, it’s probably more logical to accept the premise that trying to engage that person is probably a huge waste of time and energy. If it feels like someone’s takes are so alien to you, that it’s as if they aren’t reading the same comic you are? Or, if their emotional reactions are so different from yours? Trust that instinct, that maybe trying to force that dialogue, and bring that person around to your way of thinking, will just end with you feeling like you screamed at a wall for an hour, and the wall inevitably won.

      None of us here are as derelict or unreasonable, as our fear and anger will try to convince us they are. Most of us are mostly reasonable, most of the time. Some people don’t get along, and that’s fine. We just need to maintain an effort to care for ourselves and our mood and our time, as opposed to feeling compelled into prodding one anothers’ worst impulses, because we all individually deserve that from and for ourselves, let alone how it affects other commenters.

      1. Throwatron

        I really hope I don’t regret posting this later.

        1. Adept

          No reason you should

        2. Clif

          I don’t see why you should either. But I wonder if I could ask a favor and get a link back to where people were posting a thousand posts a day accusing each other of moral degeneracy.

          I’d like to add them to my collection.

          I may want to train an AI on them later.

      2. zee

        Yeah, same. Earlier in the storyline when there was a lot of “Sarah’s queerphobic!!!”, weird amounts of vitriol being slung at the brown female characters, people who cared about the cheating storyline as a proper storyline being accused of just “wanting them to be yelled at by man”, the comments honestly made me kinda sick to read, both here and on Patreon where they’re usually chiller. The amount of people slinging shit to defend their otp with their lives, they kinda crossed a line imo? Like, genuinely felt kinda unsafe to be around, as a brown woman in particular since that’s the unfortunate pattern that showed up in the comic. And ofc, irl circumstances played a part too, with the hurricane making me a little more sensitive to those things. Ngl there are some people I still side eye as probably a lil racist from the intensity of reaction to their white girls getting pushback from a black girl. So I stopped, I didn’t even look at the main site comments for days. And I honestly felt weird and guilty as shit when this ship first got canonized and the comments were complete dissonance from my own feelings. I mean I posted a whole soliloquy about how weird and broken it felt to get nothing from them, half joking and obviously hyperbolic but, y’know. When I get that dramatic it’s usually to try and express real feelings without inviting a hate dogpile. Idk. The comments feel safe to me for the first time in months, I’m sorry for other people it’s the opposite

        1. apocryphascribe

          Seconding your last sentence, I do wish other people were as comfortable in the comments as I am now. Being a black reader these last few months has been 1) weird watching the comic pit Joyce nearly exclusively against black and brown women, followed by comments both here and on Patreon getting HELLA racist real fast in response, and 2) wishing Willis would just get back to the Sal/Walky racism storylines because ironically enough, I was immensely more comfortable back then in comparison. I can only cross my fingers we are past that point in the story, but I will still be making my snide little remarks (outside of the comment section, naturally) about Joyce being the comic’s equivalent to Agenda Piece Roronoa Zoro.

        2. zee

          Cousin thank you for this bc honestly, sometimes I wonder if I’m overinflating this stuff in my head so it feels really good to see it’s not just me. Like I fully expect the racists to rear their heads when Linda’s around and during Sal’s storylines, and they usually get shut down pretty quick. But fuuuck thos few months where dojo was getting pushback from explicitly biwoc people came out and showed their faces in a really unexpected way. And the shit was so damn uncomfortable. Like hell, Li yesterday used the metaphor of going to a bar and realizing none of your people are there anymore. That shit was like looking up from my drink and realizing the bar had an uncomfortable amount of white people giving the few brown folks around the stink eye.

        3. Donovan

          No, you aren’t wrong. Things got DIRE for a while there.

        4. Li

          gawd I really wanna stress that THOSE people (the racists) aren’t welcome in my version of the comment section bar, either, for all that some of them would insist they’re on “””my side”””. I don’t miss any of them. I’m glad you feel safer.

        5. zee

          Yeah I know li. We don’t always agree but you’ve always been vehemently anti racist, and I respect you for holding to your principles. Thanks for the last bit. Probably won’t see this bc people don’t check these comments the next day but I wanna say it anyway

    2. Nymph

      No, but I tend to just not come around when I don’t want to be here, or I ignore people I don’t want to deal with. I highly recommend it! No one is paying you to be here, if it’s not making the happy chemicals I really support you finding somewhere else to be that does.

      1. nadamás

        No offense but this isn’t that helpful, at least to me, because i already do all that you mention and still fell this way when i come around here. Again no offense, but i asked if anyone else fell the way i described, and since you said you don’t i woild had prefer you didn’t join in. I don’t know how to phrase this in a way that doesn’t sound mean or accusatory, i don’t want to mean it that way.

        1. Nymph

          This doesn’t sound mean or accusatory, you’re fine.

          I thought it was a yes-or-no question where either answer was valid, as it wasn’t I’ll definitely scoot on out. Have a good one.

    3. Amós Batista

      I’m okay with that, it helps to pump numbers.
      Just skip then and focus in interesting comments that are always awaiting interaction

    4. Mr D

      I’m tired boss. Mostly, I’m tired of people being ugly to each other.

      1. Taffy

        Oh hey, I saw that movie for the first time, recently. It’s pretty good.

    5. Big Z

      I mean, I used to, but there’s a lot less screaming vitriol these days than there used to be.

    6. nadamás

      I honestly regret making this comment. If you se yhis just report it.

      1. Li

        I’m sure plenty of people agree with you. They just agree so much that they’ve stopped reading the comments entirely.

        Also lol at the rose colored glasses on the decline of active fighting in the comments, as if it’s because everyone gets along now, rather than because the “sickos” almost all stopped commenting completely.

        1. Nadamas

          I don’t know I think I was just being stupid when I wrote this. Doesn’t seem like the people replied fell this way. I just wanted to see if anyone can relate and it don’t see to be the case

        2. Li

          Well, yeah, of course the people who replied mostly don’t feel that way. They’re the people who are still very actively commenting.

          I’m just saying, there’s some self-selection here. A lot of folks who find the comments exhausting have stopped checking them and won’t see your question. It doesn’t mean you’re all alone. ?

        3. nadamás

          Thanks.

        4. Big Z

          I mean, there’s still fighting, but it feels like the viciousness of said fighting has gone down somewhat from peak, is all.

          Also, hey! Don’t disappear forever, I’d miss yah, but enjoy your comments break.

        5. Li

          Yes, but the fighting has mostly stopped because one side disappeared, not because everyone came together in peace and harmony. The end result is kind of similar? But I wish it was the other thing, selfishly.

          And… thank you. A lot. ?

        6. Big Z

          Not disagreeing there. I’ll be the first to admit there are some people on “both sides” that I’m not sorry to see the back of, especially, given the aforementioned vitriol I associate with them; but there are some folks who I rarely agreed with about the comic who I nonetheless miss because their perspectives were interesting.

        7. Li

          Yeah.

          Thanks again! See you on the other side of my break. I hope you continue to enjoy the comments in the interim. Wishing peace for you and yours!

        8. Nyzer

          FWIW, I’ve strongly appreciated you as a voice of reason in the past, tbh. Didn’t see that you were taking a break before, hope it’s not because of things getting uncomfortable here or that, if it is, that things get better soon.

        9. Li

          Heh, thank you, too.

          I’ve explained why I think the day before yesterday so I won’t belabor the point, but it certainly wasn’t today’s events; just a gradual shift in the comment section’s tenor that has left me feeling like I don’t have a lot of people to talk about this comic in anything but very critical tones with, and that makes me sad, so I’m taking a break for at least a while.

  43. Adept

    Maggie is a very understanding person, based on the hovertext.

  44. Davus

    Personally, while I acknowledge that Joyce and Dorthy cheating was dumb and probably unethical, I like the ship; more importantly however, It seems like it is something in character for both of them to do. In theory, Joyce wants to be ethical, but we have already seen that attraction can get the best of her, as with Jacob. Dorthy has a history of liking Walky while simultaneously distancing herself from him when she’s overwhelmed, and doesn’t listen to him or consider how her actions will make him feel as much as she probably should.

    All this is to say, there is much truth to the claim that Dorthy and Joyce are imperfect people making imperfect decisions (which is something that people may want to forget?); however, I don’t think this is bad writing on Willis’s part.

  45. Throwatron

    also man what the fuck did i miss in the 4 hours right after this strip dropped, holy hell

    1. Adept

      Same

    2. Nono

      As far as I can tell:

      – hater containment thread was the first comment, for once
      – Willis commented at some point to the tune of “oh jeez couldn’t this have been later” (I wasn’t here for this, just going off what I’ve seen in other comments)
      – thread has been nuked again

      1. Adept

        I consistently get the feeling that Willis feels frustrated and hurt about how badly a lot of this has landed, and is unable or unwilling to accept the criticism.

        The way he keeps taunting the unhappy readers in his social media posts really doesn’t feel healthy.

        1. Doopyboop

          I am consistently on the side of ‘people should be allowed to express their opinions and criticisms of a work’. However, I think there’s a point where the author really doesn’t have to accept certain criticism. Like, the way the protest was handled? The lack of Muslim representation? Completely understandable and Willis has been pretty accepting of that.

          Criticism about Dorothy and Joyce’s relationship however, I think that’s going to have to be accepted, by both Willis and the commenters, as an ‘agree to disagree’ thing. Certain readers don’t have to enjoy Dorothy and Joyce’s relationship. However, that doesn’t mean that Willis can no longer tell the story he wishes to tell with them just because people don’t like it. It reminds me of Last Jedi, and how people disliking that meant literally everything from that movie got thrown in the trash and replaced by the most milquetoast MacGuffin shit that was meant to make people as dissatisfied as possible.

        2. Bittersweet

          I still rage over the bullshit that was everyone hating The Last Jedi. It was, strictly speaking, not a good movie technically (it CANNOT stand on its own, plot wise. I think that should be a basic requirement even for sequels). Rose was handled horribly [not because Rose is Rose, but Johnson made the rookie mistake of having two characters that could fulfill identical roles. Rose should’ve done what the dude that betrayed them did. She didn’t and thus had no purpose to the plot. Could’ve been C-3PO for all that was added. Girly should’ve been allowed to be important.]

          But the scene with the ship kamikazing itself was breathtaking. I did genuinely love the messages in it. I loved everything involving Luke, Rey, and Kylo Ren. It was a creative movie with a bunch of good parts in it, and I love Rian Johnson as a director even if I thought he was given too much too early in his career. And it set up so many interesting plot threads.

          Plot threads which were immediately thrown out or glossed over in favor of Abrams frankly boring inability to be imaginative for even a second. Can blame Disney, can blame whoever you want, but everything Abrams touches turns to ash across other properties so he’s gonna be the target of my disdain.

        3. Doopyboop

          Agreed, like the sideline on Vegas planet where Finn the child soldier re-learns that war is bad because it negatively affects children, that was annoying. I get why Laura Dern kept Poe out of the loop but man was it a forced conflict, so much other stuff was great, though. I loved Rey being a nobody. It’s better that way. She built up her parents abandoning her because such cruelty surely needs a forgivable explanation, they totally meant to come back to her except no, they traded her for money and bounced. Except no now her dad was Palpatine’s son/clone because we can’t have a main character NOT have some important lineage! And they didn’t mean to sell and abandon her, they were saving her life all along! Hooray! I love retcons that make everything weaker and useless!

        4. eh, whatever

          But the scene with the ship kamikazing itself was breathtaking.

          Yes, at the expense of turning hyperspace into… space. The whole conceit of finding a way around Einstein was lost by someone who evidently didn’t understand it.

        5. Big Z

          I get weird about this one, because the penumbra of fiction around the movies has ALWAYS had this idea that there’s a moment or two wherein hyperspace and real space are kinda meshed, especially around large gravity wells — there’s a mission in the original X-Wing flight sims that revolves around you trying to make a hyperspace jump and failing due to something in the way, but your ship definitely travels faster than it “should” for a couple of moments and you end up across the battlefield from where you were. In the dialogue it’s kinda hinted at that you survive this because of some inherent safety features of the hyperdrive, and a lot of us fans who played it had a brief moment of “hmmm” about that. There’s also a lot of an idea in the extended universe of novels that no one really understands how hyperdrives work –they’re essentially archaeotech that works even though the principles behind it are lost. So it felt less “unprecedented” for me and more “honestly, kinda weird that Holdo’s the first person to try that”

          Frankly, I felt it was most more trivialized by that brief scene in Rise of Skywalker where it’s implied someone killed an ordinary Star Destroyer that way rather than a dreadnought + an absurdly bigger dreadnought having JUST enough mass shadow that the interaction happened.

        6. Rogue 7

          I acknowledge that the Holdo Maneuver blew a bigger hole in canon than it did through the dreadnaught.

          But yeah, the cinematography of that shot was well worth it.

          I’ll co-sign everything Bittersweet said with the exception of Luke. Mark Hamill was disappointed with Luke’s arc and I tend to agree, I think there could have been better choices made.

          I knew I was going to hate 9 from the first scene, the hyperspace “chase”. Lots of ink has been spilled talking about how Disney turned 9 into nothing but fanservice for older white guy Star Wars fans, but I’ve been ride-or-die Star Wars for 30 years and I still hated the damn movie. Because the fanservice was all *really shitty*. It threw out all sense of logic and continuity in order to make shallow callbacks. “Somehow, Palpatine has returned” really sums up the whole thing.

          My favorite thing to complain about that hopefully y’all haven’t seen ten million times is that Rey should not, in any sort of consistent universe, be allowed to “accidentally a force lightning”. That stuff is supposed to be the darkest of dark side powers. It’s literally weaponized hate. She was trying to *save Chewie*, not kill whoever was on that transport.

        7. LiamKav

          “It was, strictly speaking, not a good movie technically (it CANNOT stand on its own, plot wise. I think that should be a basic requirement even for sequels).”

          I feel that’s unnecessarily limiting. If we follow that argument, The Empire Strikes Back, The Wrath of Kahn, and arguably Aliens and T2 would be considered “bad” sequels becausr they rely on (or at least gratefully benefit from) knowledge of what they are sequels to.

        8. AMagicalDuck

          Except it was a great movie technically, and in every other aspect

        9. Needfuldoer

          They just don’t get it, and refuse to acknowledge how toxic their shiny new OTP (which they wrote from the ground up) actually is when you look at the entire body of work as a whole. And of course don’t forget all the plot potential that was abandoned so we could fast forward to where we are today…

          Now we get cutesy soft nothing and filler (Becky’s strip the other day) while we hear both “I’m sorry about the thing I apparently did wrong” and “ahahahahaha suck it, paladins!” at the same time.

          It’s disheartening to watch.

        10. Doopyboop

          The most toxic thing about them is that yes, they both did cheat on their boyfriends when they got together. Something which has been solved by them breaking up with their boyfriends. That’s it. That’s the only toxic thing about their relationship.

        11. Needfuldoer

          Only if you completely ignore Dorothy’s possessiveness of Joyce rooted in her unaddressed post-kidnapping trauma, and the strong parent/child overtones of their dynamic. (And Dorothy’s habit of treating her partners as projects that need her to fix them.)

          https://www.dumbingofage.com/appointment-2/
          https://www.dumbingofage.com/ready-to-go/

        12. Doopyboop

          They are the same age.

          Dorothy and Joyce are the same age.

          Dorothy is not twenty years older than Joyce.

          They are. The same. Age. I am so fucking tired of people insisting “erm Dorothy is Joyce’s mother, therefore the relationship is toxic and incest”. She is not actually her mother. I know Jennifer said she was ‘like Joyce’s mom’. That is a hyperbolic statement. It still doesn’t mean they have a PARENT/CHILD OVERTONE TO THEIR DYNAMIC.

          They absolutely do have a bunch of trauma going on with their relationship, they’ve both been through a lot of things together, but them having PTSD doesn’t automatically make the relationship toxic.

        13. Needfuldoer

          It’s about their behavior, not their relative ages. If we’re going to get this hung up on semantics, pretend I wrote “codependent” or “caretaker/dependent” up there instead.

          As far as we’ve seen, Dorothy always positions herself in a parental/caretaking role in her relationships. She found the life drawing class for Joyce and bought her the sketch pad. She made the optometrist appointment then physically dragged her to it. She goaded her into picking up her birth control prescription.

          She did it to Walky, too. Remember their fight over his pajama jeans? How she used helping him study to dodge addressing her own problems?

          What about her nightmare where she starts off riding the horse with Joyce, who then falls off, gets trapped behind the “Amber juliennes a guy” doors, and gets vaporized inside the mouth of a giant Ross head? Has she worked on what happened the night of the kidnapping, or is she just okay now because she has Joyce under supervision?

        14. Doopyboop

          In order for a relationship to be considered so toxic that you think the author needs to address it, you need to provide examples of that. Of instances such as Ruth and Amber raising their voices at their partners. Of Ruth and Jennifer enabling each other’s self destructive alcoholism.

          Dorothy being a busybody with caretaker tendencies (which is just how some people show their affection) is not inherently toxic. Neither is Dorothy’s nightmares. Yeah, she does seem happier and less stressed since she feels confident being Joyce’s girlfriend over Joe as Joyce’s partner, but until she actually acts out with controlling behavior you cannot reasonably expect Willis to write around the issues you’ve brought up here because they do not exist yet. Maybe Dorothy and Joyce will have to talk about the trauma. You’ll have to wait and see.

        15. thejeff

          Also, are those things that were deliberately written into the characterization just things you know will just be ignored long term to make the OTP? Or are they potential sources of conflict within the relationship to be explored?

          How do you know?

          That they’re being cutesy right now riding high on new relationship energy doesn’t mean the intent is they’ll never have problems.

        16. Rogue 7

          There’s definitely a vibe. Dorothy is the knowledgeable one who helps Joyce learn by sharing her knowledge. That’s a big part of the parent/child relationship. Just off the top of my head:
          -She was the driving force behind Joyce getting glasses & BC. I think at least one time she scheduled the appointment, possibly both.
          – Laundry Day was explicitly framed as a “teaching” moment.
          – Going over what Joyce might enjoy during sex.
          – Helping her to pick out new music- I’m thinking about how at one point Dorothy went “Your favorite music is Paramore”, as a definitive thing.

          I can’t think of a time when Joyce has done the reverse for Dorothy, where she’s taken a leadership role about something she knows more about. Joyce was the lead player during #dranks, but she wasn’t educating Dorothy- they were both equally clueless.

          Personally, I don’t think that part of their relationship rises to “toxic” levels- it’s well within normal relationship limits. But it’s absolutely a seed from which toxicity can bloom, and there’s *absolutely* a vibe there.

        17. Doopyboop

          When Dorothy spoonfeeds Joyce while making airplane noises, praises her for a big productive shit on the toilet, changes her diaper, buys her kiddy toys, and sets Joyce down in a playpen while she sips wine, THEN I will accept this strange insistence that Dorothy and Joyce have a parent and child relationship. Until then, I’m just gonna look at you people funny and wonder…

        18. Clif

          In this very strip Joyce is educating Dorothy on the importance of brushing your teeth.

        19. Bill Erak

          no fucking way ppl be trying to say Doyce is toxic because they have a character dynamic where one is slightly more responsible than the other ??????????????????????

        20. Clif

          Are you new here?

        21. Bill Erak

          Yes, actually!

        22. sickolesbian

          yea this is such a weird take theres like, the weird comparison to mother/child shit???? and then also like saying friends and partners cant take care of eachother unless its 100% equal or something, because otherwise its TOXIC and BAD

          like maybe dorothy will eventually get burned out, this still wouldnt be toxic, but she actively WANTS to help right now?????

          ive got partners who help me a ton more than i can help them back in the same way and its not toxic its saving my life cause im disabled as fuck

        23. Doopyboop

          Yeah the idea that Dorothy’s assisted Joyce in getting glasses, picking up important medicine to help her painful periods, and sign up for an art class she wants to take is a mark against her is funny but also sad to me. Like what do these people think happens in relationships? My mom helped my dad make appointments all the time, and in return he always took care of tinkering with things around the house as well as yard work and dishes.

        24. Adept

          I’m with Needfuldoer 100% of the way, and it saddens me that Willis absolutely refuses to hear any of it.

        25. David M Willis

          I have heard it. And to answer your burning question, I rate the idea that Dorothy is some toxic controlling toxic mastermind who has a toxic mommy/daughter toxic relationship with Joyce to be: dumb as shit.

          Every time I read that take, my eyes roll so far up into my head I almost die.

          There.

          You asked for it, you have it.

          So, no, I’m not going to incorporate that (imo, if this helps) dumb as shit take into my view of my own characters, no. Sorry. Never.

        26. Dandi_Andi

          They absolutely do get it. Joyce’s and Dorothy’s toxicity was written that way on purpose. It gives their relationship problems to overcome. After all, if you end up in a cute relationship without any major issues to blow up in your face, you get banished to a narrative nul-space of only partial existence. Just like Danny. A Danny Phantom Zone if you will.

        27. Bill Erak

          The problem is in calling it “toxicity”

          People, a relationship that isn’t perfect isn’t immediately toxic!
          Is Dotty’s assessment of her trauma even fully true, or was it just her attempt at dismissing her obvious romantic feelings towards Joyce? Because contrary to popular belief, you don’t always know what the fuck is up with your brain. Let’s see what happens if she goes talk to a therapist.

          And of fucking course Dorothy teachers Joyce a lot of things! Do you remember how she was raised? Nevermind that Dorothy is an overachiever, she’s always gonna go the extra mile for anything she cares about, and that includes her partners.

          The only ‘toxic’ thing about their relationship is the fact that, in the whirlwind of emotions and denial that kickstarted it, they cheated on their partners. Which isn’t a toxic part of the relationship, it’s toxic behavior towards those they cheated on.

        28. Nymph

          This is an interesting take, because it doesn’t seem to be grounded in anything I’ve noticed about the comic or read on Bluesky or Patreon.

          Like… Willis occasionally laughs at or mocks comments while taking an absolute fucking avalanche of abuse daily. It’s kind of ridiculous to expect them to just take the level of constant, unending, repetitive complaining that pops up every fucking day (in addition to all the shit we don’t see because it gets to Willis privately somehow) without ever saying or doing anything about it.

          “The way he keeps taunting the unhappy readers in his social media posts really doesn’t feel healthy.”

          This line, in particular, is hilarious. Just taking all that abuse on the chin would be healthier, would it? Nonsense, absolute nonsense.

        29. Zamperla

          Huuuuuge agree. Esp since a line of thought I see a LOT is ‘actually responding back to Hugely Critical Even Hugely Shitty Feedback is BULLYING’. its not. It’s Willis’ comic. I really don’t think the deal is ‘in return for reading a free comic you get to slag on it forever, endlessly’.

        30. Yotomoe

          I agree that willis doesn’t deserve the amount of vitriol or especially targeted armchair psychology that I’ve seen only glimpses of here and through his own accounts on his blogs.

          That said I think a lot of the complaints aren’t trying to he malicious. Theyre fans who feel like their criticisms aren’t being heard. Theyre being seen and read but not understood, based on how often their stances and feelings are misrepresented. I think the issue is less about taking the abuse on the chin but really, truly, addressing what people are saying rather than making passive aggressive polls or calling out the worst of the bad actors. Speaking personally I dont really wanna be a hater. I would much rather talk about the things I like in the comic than the things I don’t.

        31. Donovan

          I didn’t love the implication that Dot was to blame for the “hate comments” by “reminding people to kvetch” evrey night. That felt unfair.

        32. Yotomoe

          Was Dot banned or has she just not posted since the thread was taken down?

        33. Donovan

          I dunno. I don’t THINK there was a ban. That would be beyond the pale tbh.

        34. Throwatron

          If Dot gets in trouble for being the most reasonable, thoughtful, helpful person in the room, I will absolutely flip my shit. Dot is endlessly patient, and tried to give all of the people who will start crying at the slightest implication of negativity or criticism an easy way to avoid encountering any…and they constantly complain and brigade those efforts to death, because the implication that somebody is liking something less than them, somehow is a direct attack on their self and psyche. It’s so damn sad.

        35. David M Willis

          Dot has in no way been blocked or banned. I can’t imagine a version of Dot that could result in such a thing.

        36. Yotomoe

          Ah Good :3

        37. Nyzer

          Glad to hear, but for what it’s worth, even as a participant in the Hater Containment Thread, I’m not at all surprised. I found it pretty difficult to imagine a version of you that would do so, too. (Though people often unpleasantly surprise me.)

        38. Nyzer

          There were even multiple occasions on which Dot posted the thread and immediately followed it up with “honestly I don’t hate/kinda like this one”.

          Plus multiple discussions within those threads about the justification of the thread and why it’s healthier than leaving the complains UNcontained.

          I realize Willis is frustrated after months of criticism but they could have just asked Dot to please give the comment section more time in the future and still given the same explanation that having it be the first thread makes him feel like he lacks self-respect for allowing the continued existence of it (or complaints in general?). The frustration could have been spent instead on that one person who was like “if you’re upset about the criticism, try writing a story that doesn’t piss off your fans”.

        39. Throwatron

          I missed wtfever nonsense happened last night, but up until now I was convinced the main stressor for Willis re: the containment thread, was dipshit numpties report-bombing it to create extra work for Willis because their glass bones and paper skin can’t operate a scroll wheel. If the thread itself was bothering Willis directly, I wish they had said something sooner. I for one would have felt very differently about it actually bothering Willis, directly.

        40. Li

          @Throwatron: they did say something directly.

          It’s the same comment everyone has been pretending said “I hate it when people nuke the hater containment thread”.

          It didn’t. It said something much more like: “Jesus Christ is this my job now, logging on every day to reinstate a thread full of people talking about how terrible my comic is forever? Am I that much of a masochist a masochist?”

          And everyone involved in the HTC has just willfully ignored most of that ever since.

        41. Li

          Thanks autocorrect, you’re a pal.

        42. Nymph

          Autocorrect added a little echo at the end to show it was a flashback. XD

        43. Li

          Haha!

        44. Nyzer

          I’d be able to understand that better if there was any real effort to engage with the constructive criticism. Radio silence in between dismissive/mocking social media posts is unsurprisingly not helping critics feel heard. And for that to build up to lashing out at Dot for being first even though Dot had already expressed surprise that she was first AND took an apologetic tone to the reader who already expressed dissatisfaction with it being first?

          Never even mind that most of us initially expected more actual drama to come from Joyce and Dorothy cheating on their partners, only to see literally everyone that would be expected to be upset or even annoyed with them EXCEPT Raidah passively tolerating or outright condoning their actions.

          Plus, both the cheating bisexual idea and the decision to ignore the drama that should come from a cheating storyline in favor of sexytimes were things Willis themselves criticized in the past. Yet nobody seems to care about the cheating, and the drama of it is being entirely swept under the rug in favor of tolerance and approval of the relationship.

          So it’s hard not to feel like the constructive, respectful criticism is being actively spurned.

        45. Clif

          I would be highly surprised if Dot were permanently banned. But I did find it a bit frustrating that the Hate thread was always so early in the comments, coloring the tone of what followed. And people that argued with the negativity were reminded that it was the hate containment thread.

          Not that anyone ever told me that I shouldn’t post there, but then I’m a well known moral degenerate so people may just not have wasted their breath.

          Still, I thought that Dot getting in early was fair if she wanted to do the work. But I also underestimated the toll it was taking on Willis. Everyone sees things a bit differently. You see constructive respectful criticism; I see highly repetative complaints and a good deal of entitlement.

        46. Nyzer

          I didn’t say that everything in the thread was constructive, respectful criticism. It’s more of a remark as to how the general lack of response to people’s main criticisms of the storyline led to the criticism ramping up over time. And how going from that near radio silence to lashing out at Dot for trying to get in early to contain it is a big leap. One that might not have ever needed to occur.

        47. Nymph

          The thing about constructive criticism is kinda twofold here for me:

          1. He didn’t ask for feedback, so idk why he’s like expected to respond to critique in any direction? I get that having him only respond to the abuse he’s getting makes the ‘constructive’ people feel bad, but…

          2. Criticism, no matter how well-meaning and constructive, can become an overwhelming flood of negativity when it’s 20 comments long, plus Bluesky messages, plus DMs, plus Reddit all every single day, all saying the same things they’ve said every day for months. Even when kindly phrased, that would drive me personally up a fucking wall. I don’t think there’s anyone who would weather that without some Feelings about it.

          I think my general rule of thumb is: if someone didn’t ask me to critique their work, then I’m not owed any kind of response. It isn’t active spurning to not acknowledge and respond to a stranger with an unasked-for opinion.

          I understand feeling snubbed, or feeling like he’s ignoring people “just trying to help” but he HAS responded to critique he felt was useful or important (see: Muslim rep in the comic).

        48. nadamás

          +1 Thanks you Nymph this is something i been thinking about for a long time but couldn’t never quite put in into the right words.

        49. Nyzer

          My concern here is going from near radio silence to the lashing out in that thread. There’s definitely a bigger diacussion that could be had about criticism and whether it’s worth responding to, but if you have a comment section and release a divisive storyline and then largely don’t respond to the constructive criticism or ask for/establish any community rules, people are going to use that comment section to kvetch. Can’t imagine what it’s like to be in Willis’ shoes, but I can’t fully sympathize with coming out of nowhere to get upset at Dot (who was, herself, surprised to be the first post).

        50. Nymph

          They have mentioned the kvetching thread before (as Li pointed out) and have talked pretty openly about the kind of abuse they’re getting.

          I’m not saying Dot deserved whatever happened, I wasn’t here to see it and idk the specifics, but I am saying that this new wave of complaining about the author’s actions in response to the complaints about the storyline just sound parasocial and entitled to me.

          I think it’s likely that you and I are simply not going to see eye-to-eye on this issue, so I’m going to step out of it and I hope you have a lovely day.

        51. Nyzer

          I’m trying to follow the original chain of comments back at this point and I kind of gave up on that. I BELIEVE I initially thought you were more specifically responding to their frustration in the HCT, so if you never saw that and were more responding to the idea of Willis being frustrated and previous social media etc. comments, then yeah, that’s not really where I wanted to be coming from here.

          Sorry to drag that in!

        52. Li

          https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/02-im-the-problem-its-me/selfdiscipline/#comment-1960984

          It’s right here.

          Took me some time but I found it. I really think they were quite clear, and that folks reading them as saying anything else were operating more on wishful thinking than any real ambiguity.

        53. Nyzer

          Oh, no, I didn’t mean where that comment came from (though thank you for the context anyway), I meant where the first comment in this chain of comments was. I think I assumed I was replying to the idea of Willis expressing frustration in the HCT for this strip, and not in general. I tried to be more sympathetic in my initial reply to them there (though I hit Post after the thread went down, so idk if it even got posted) but I’m definitely uncomfortable with the fact that Dot was trying to act in good faith for the better health of the comment section and caught a pretty frustrated response from them.

          I’m also not really tracking what “folks reading them as saying anything else” means. Maybe I’m getting misinterpreted in some way, or just fumbling my point, based on Nymph’s response? (It REALLY doesn’t help me that I’ve lost track of the thread at this point. I’m just going to assume I misread what I was initially responding to.)

          The frustration at having to deal with approving the thread is clear, the unhappiness of being bashed in it is clear. Dot herself isn’t responsible for either, though, and if Willis feels differently, it’s probably worth considering establishing new community rules regarding kvetching going forward. To the best of my knowledge, no requests had been made regarding how to behave in the comments or what should be done regarding the HCT until just this page, and I’m not sure if there’s some better solution in the wake of a divisive storyline that Willis is sticking to their guns on. So I do have some sympathy for the frustration, but also dislike the way Dot caught heat for trying to keep the HCT going in a good faith effort to help the health of the comment section. That’s all I was really trying to get at.

        54. Li

          My reply should really have been up above to Throwatron, who referenced exactly the mentality I mentioned there and was mentioning again here.

          “up until now I was convinced the main stressor for Willis re: the containment thread, was dipshit numpties report-bombing it to create extra work for Willis because their glass bones and paper skin can’t operate a scroll wheel. If the thread itself was bothering Willis directly, I wish they had said something sooner.”

          So I said, they did say something sooner, in exactly the same comment everyone keeps pretending only expressed any displeasure about people reporting the comment thread.

          (And, for the record, the only person who has so far confessed to reporting the comment thread was one of the “haters” who kept whining about “refusing be contained”, so it’s also a bit annoying to still have folks claiming the thread is just obviously being reported by non-haters.)

          Anyway, Nymph referenced my reply to Throwatron in their reply to you above, and I skimmed your comment and thought I saw you saying you’d looked for the comment in question and hadn’t been able to find it, so I put the link here, where it evidently doesn’t belong.

          Hopefully that’s all cleared up.

        55. Li

          Breaking my comments moratorium to +1 this.

        56. nadamás

          I think he occasionally making some jokes about it instead of getting into fights with people on here is perfectly healthy. He is not obligated to take it seriously.

      2. Amós Batista

        oh, I did the biggest burn ever there, but I’m okay jajaja

  46. Rogue 7

    Because this comment section could use another grenade:

    A commenter somewhere else said that making hashtagdranks their first date retroactively makes it also, retroactively, emotional cheating. I can’t recall if Dorothy had gotten together with Walky at the time, but Joyce was obviously with Joe.

    Considering that immediately after said date was the first time Joyce was comfortable being more physically intimate with Joe, and how she really wanted to recreate that experience with him at the dorm party, well, that’s really interesting.

    Honestly, I’d like to see that as a setup for Joyce at least considering the poly angle- it’s clear evidence that she *can* manage an intimate bond with 2 people simultaneously. That or some sort of self-reflection about how badly she treated Joe if she isn’t going for the poly approach.

    Can you tell that a lack of any real self-reflection on Joyce’s part has been one of my pri.ary problems with this arc?

    1. zee

      I will remain a poly truther till the day I die! (Or the day it gets definitively shot down in canon)

      1. thejeff

        Honestly, the longer it isn’t dealt with the more likely it seems that it’s going to be important. Willis might come up with another way for it to be important, but it would have been so easy to either not bring it up at all or to wrap it up right after the suggestion (if all he wanted was to show how desperate Joe was to stay with her maybe?).

        1. Bill Erak

          People really seem to think Willis has no object permanence and if something isn’t happening right now it’s never going to happen and will never be addressed and the comic is ruined because from now on it will be completely lacking in conflict of any kind and will forever be only Doyce fluff

        2. Rogue 7

          When predicting future behavior, past behavior is one of the most important indicators. And so far the only thing we’ve seen of how DoJo is written is fluff. Characters who I as a reader interpret as being willing and able to initiate some sort of conflict have chosen to take their space and tacitly approve. Two big emotional moments (Becky finding out & Joyce coming out to Hank) had whole strips where the entirety of the content was “Joyce and Dorothy talk about how much they love each other”.

          You couple that with how Willis is explicitly upset that people are complaining that DoJo is cute and what other conclusion can I draw but “yeah, that other shoe isn’t really dropping anytime soon”

        3. Bill Erak

          And I’m sure people were complaining the same way about all the other couples this comic had having a period where they were just allowed to be a couple before the inevitable drama we all knew was coming. I’m sure I can go back to those strips and see the same discourse about people being so tired of the cutesy-couple stuff and begging Willis to move on already!

          Oh, wait. I’ve been doing that. No other pairing got this much shit. And there’s a point where “b-b-b-but the cheating” just doesn’t really cut it anymore.

        4. Rogue 7

          So which is it, neighbor?

          Does every other couple get complaints, or does “no other pairing g[e]t this much shit”?

          I can’t really respond to a post that goes both ways.

        5. Bill Erak

          Right, Poe’s law. Read the first paragraph with an incredibly annoying sarcastic tone of voice.

        6. Jon

          It’s called “sarcasm”, Rogue. Which you might have understood, had you read the last paragraph.

          And you (and a lot of other people) seem to be forgetting that in-universe, this relationship has been going on for approximately 48 hours. I’m pretty sure I was annoyingly sappy for almost a month after I started dating my wife. (Well, I mean, she wasn’t my wife yet…)

        7. Rogue 7

          Sarcasm expressed through text is incredibly difficult to pick up on. In other news, water is wet.

          So we’re working from the same set of facts- that this pairing has attracted a large number of criticisms.

          I’m not really sure what you want me to *do* with that, simply because it bears absolutely no relation to the point I was making.

        8. Bill Erak

          The point was that every couple in the comic has had a period of grace where they were allowed happiness without repercussion and you’re here like “Uuuuugh I want this to end already”

        9. Rogue 7

          I mean, every other couple wasn’t the sole focus of the narrative for months like DoJo has been, being honest.

          I took a quick look at Book 13 Story 3- Joementum. And there’s a good number of JoJo strips. But also? We have a bunch of narratives interwoven there. We have Dorothy’s continuing crashout. We have Walky & Lucy’s breakfast with the Plastics. Becky & Dina have their moments. And I think it’s where Carla was introduced to Charlie.

          But we really haven’t had much in these past arcs that isn’t about DoJo.

        10. Yotomoe

          I more or less said “ughhh I want this to end already” when walky and Lucy got together. I think its just compounded by how much forcus its getting right now.

        11. thejeff

          Rogue 7: That really is the big difference in pacing of cuteness between this and the other romances. Those, even when Joyce or Dorothy were involved, didn’t dominate the strip for months on end.

    2. C.T Phipps

      I feel like the cheating as depicted was nothingberger because they kissed and then immediately broke up. It’s about as ethical as things can be done in this matter. Which is not but almost cute in how it has been elevated to massive betrayal.

      I expect more cheating and darker!

      DARKER!

      1. apocryphascribe

        YES! EXACTLY! Where is the emotional devastation? Where are the crashouts and psychological breakdowns? So much noise was made about Willis being super uncomfortable with cheating, and avoiding cheating plotlines in their comics for decades, that you’d think it would have led to some incredibly painful (and good) moments, but nah. I completely get why folks would come away from this arc convinced that the cheating was a non-issue; you’d think there was no cheating at all the way it was lightly pinched over the story like black pepper on potato salad at a whites-only country club get together.

        1. Nyzer

          Yeah, I’m STILL utterly baffled as to why they wanted to include a cheating storyline seemingly just to tick off the box of having done so, without actually including any of the messy aftermath that COMES from cheating.

        2. thejeff

          My take is that Willis being super uncomfortable with cheating arcs is exactly why the cheating is minimal and the fall out is minimal, but the characters still make sure to emphasize that it was cheating. He’s not comfortable with pushing it any harder.

      2. Opinion

        I think thats part of the frustration though. Its a nothing burger to the point it could have literally just been nothing. The way it happened you could have them both break up before the protest and nothing is different.

        These aren’t real people, they are characters someone is writing. If cheating doesn’t matter then why include it? If you dont want to have a cheating plot line then dont have them cheat, if you want to have a cheating plot line then have the cheating impact something.

      3. Rogue 7

        See, the toothlessness of the cheating arc as portrayed is kind of why I lobbed this grenade. Because it’s one *loaded* with teeth.

        I’d like it to detonate and make DoJo stop and think a minute: “Boy, if that really was our first date, then we were *really* being dishonest about things with Joe & Walky”

        1. Throwatron

          Except the problem wasn’t them being dishonest with their boyfriends; their problem was being dishonest with themselves. The problem was Joyce having a fucked-up sense of norms and boundaries for platonic relationships, because she had one friend for her entire life, who happened to be a repressed lesbian that was madly in love with her, and treated her like a girlfriend the whole time.

          Neither character does the laundry fuck, if they’re willfully self-aware to the idea of what they are doing. Neither character goes on their bar date, if they’re willfully self-aware that it’s not platonic. If self-awareness crept in, they had to deny it, because it didn’t mesh with the reality of their internal feelings, because both characters are habitually blind to their own internal experience, and prefer following the intellectualized narrative they’ve made up about who they are.

          These things led to them doing wrong by their boyfriends, impulsively, and thoughtlessly. That’s a way a person can do wrong, and it’s just objectively different than the way most people who are upset, paint their reasoning. If either of them were forced into the slightest modicum of awareness of what they were actually doing, they would have combusted in shame and confusion, immediately spiraled, and it would have stalled out and chilled their friendship-cum-relationship for several months in comic time; this almost occurred several times, but both girls came to the wrong conclusions, because they’re both incompetent at self-reflection.

          IDK, it’s just wild the amount of malice that gets projected onto two flawed characters who are genuinely just sheltered, immature, and generally lacking self-awareness. People were so triggered by what the main characters did in isolation, that they are not realistic about what the fuck actually happened in the broader strokes of the narrative, and have mentally retconned Joyce and Dorothy into the worst conceivable interpretations of their moral character and behavior.

          It’s just so tiresome to me. I can’t imagine living my life among other humans this way. And I sincerely doubt that none of the harshest judgemental folks, actually avoided doing anything objectively dumb and hurtful to others during their formative years. It’s just an naked compulsion to outrage, and an addiction to putting oneself on a high horse.

        2. Rogue 7

          OK neighbor,

          First and foremost, I largely agree with your take on how these two idiots (simultaneously affectionate and derogatory) have approached things. They’re far more guilty of being thoughtless than malicious. We’ve seen precisely one strip where either of them acted with malice, and Joyce wasn’t exactly subtle about it- she literally laughed in Walky’s face.

          But let’s say that DoJo adopts this narrative going forward- they set their anniversary to be the night of #dranks rather than #teargaswedding. I think that it was last Tuesday, in-comic? Seems harmless…until someone asks Dorothy “so when did you hook up with Walky again?” Or asks Joyce “When was your epic romantic date with Joe, then?”

          I understand Dorothy’s motivation here- a clandestine alcohol-fueled super-intimate conversation is way more meaningful and romantic than lunch at Taco Bell. I’m guilty of that sort of thing, too- when I tell the story of how lucky I was to meet my gf because she was browsing Hinge at her friend’s and that happened to be in my radius, I leave out the part where I was so unsure of myself that she had to straight-up ask me “hey, where are we going wirh this?” in order to get me to pull the trigger on an in-person meetup, since that’s not nearly so romantic.

          But you have to take the good with the bad. If this retcon makes DoJo more romantic, it *also* intensifies the dishonesty towards the boys. It retcons DoJo’s infidelity to not just the 12 hours or so between their kiss and telling the boys, but to several *days* of dishonesty that are much harder to brush off as “we got caught up in the moment”.

          And that duality is really interesting to me and I want to see it explored.

        3. sickolesbian

          THANK YOU! neither of them were aware of what was going on!!! its like ppl expect everyone to go around being like, insane and hyper vigilant about this kinda thing, which isnt healthy??? wait, actually, this is exactly what cheating obsessed monogamous people expect, right, i forgot.

          anyway i find it kind of crazy we are bringing up the concept of “emotional cheating” now, which like, cmon, not really a thing, its just a way for people to be possessive as shit of their partners, emotional intimacy with people besides your partner is important!

          like yea its been messy and hurtful for ppl involved, these things happen sometimes, it doesn’t make dorothy and joyce ontologically evil.

          I really do not understand the level of vitriol about this specifically, maybe because im polyamorous.

        4. sickolesbian

          i wana say there are situations where cheating is very hurtful especially when you get the dynamics of axis of oppression involved but thats, a whole other thing with more than cheating involved? I still think positioning cheating as a cardinal sin is unhelpful for interpersonal relationships.

      4. shepsquared

        It’s only this toothless because we’re so heavily focused on Joyce and Dorothy. If we were cutting back to Joe being depressed/pointlessly hopeful or Walky trying to cope every few strips it’d be a completely different storyline.

    3. Dandi_Andi

      I read Joyce and Joe not as Joyce balancing two intimate relationships at once, but as Joyce sublimating her desire for Dorothy onto her relationship with Joe. Knowing what kind of church she grew up in, she most likely still has some lingering internalized homophobia. Since she’s was unwilling to consider that she was gay, she redirected that sexual desire onto an “acceptable” object of her desire.

      Now I say all of that just to say that i don’t expect polyamory to come out of it. I think they can still salvage a loving friendship out of this, but it still is going to require a lot of introspection and a long conversation with Joe about how she (however unintentionally) used him emotionally. And God only knows when it even if that talk is going to happen.

      1. Rogue 7

        This is something that I think is only supported by a surface-level reading of the text.

        If we get into metacommentary on the strip, we very quickly run into the problem that Willis has explicitly said that Joyce is Bi, not gay. That doesn’t fit with her attraction to Joe being solely sublimated desire for Dorothy.

        And in a deeper reading of the text, we see consistently throughout that Joyce Has A Type when it comes to men, and their similarities to Dorothy don’t really factor into it in the slightest- solely that they’re tall and muscular. Honestly, that’s an angle that *could* have been explored- I remember Becky called Jacob “the biggest Dorothy ever” in that they’re both serious, civic-minded dorks, but Ethan and Joe really don’t fit into that personality type at all.

  47. UrsulaDavina

    I like the crunch wrap, but yeah either brush your teeth after eating it or chew some gum.

  48. LiamKav

    I’m not sure she can handle an intimate bond with 2 people simultaneously. It’s more like Joyce is laser focussed, but that laser focus is often with whatever is directly in front of her. When Joe was there it was pointed at him, and when he’s not she forgets he exists.

    Joyce lacks object permanence. I’m curious what will happen when Joe and Dorothy are both in front of her at the same time.

  49. Dandi_Andi

    Say, suppose that instead of a containment thread for posts about how much people hate the current arc of the comic, we just contained all the posts about how much people seem to hate each other. That’s what gets me down more than anything these days.

    Anyway, I like this. It reminds me of when I was younger and I smoked. I knew this woman who hated the smell of it. She insisted that you could have cigarettes or you could have kisses, but not both. Even brushing your teeth wasn’t enough. If she could still smell it on your skin or in your hair, she wouldn’t go near you.

    1. Big Z

      One does feel like there’s a LOT of hurt feelings in this comment section over and above the disagreements on plot and pacing.

      Personally, I ascribe it to that moment we had for a month or two where it seemed like everyone was reacting to everyone else as though they personally endorsed the worst takes that were vaguely similar to their own — lots of accusations of immorality and homophobia and all kinds of other nonsense that really didn’t apply to the vast majority of folks.

      It really does seem like some of those bruises are just starting to fade.

      1. Throwatron

        It’s this. Around the point of the kiss, the angriest and most aggrieved people were outright monstrous to anybody who disagreed with them, and accused every such person of the worst moral failings and delinquencies humans are capable of; and, quite a lot of us were keen to fire back, as we thought that the loud minority were being unreasonable, egregious, and ludicrous, as well as so mean that they deserved their energy matched back at them.

        Ever since that, most of us feel the need to walk on eggshells, and be extra careful with our takes; so, more of the commentary feels, to those who are sensitive to social unrest, to skew more negative, and that’s partially true. It leads to more of the comments being made, by those who are less afraid of being blunt, and less concerned about what other commenters think of them.

        But, part of it is, some people have become so sensitive to the bare implication of any negativity, that they are massively catastrophizing any take that is even slightly critical, and treating it as if it’s a repeat of the Paladin Crusade of 2025, and that every take from every person that isn’t a sunny, trite comment about 100% loving the direction of the comic, as some kind of personal attack on the self.

        On one hand, I don’t blame anyone for being sensitive, after how toxic the environment in here was for a week or two, a few months ago; I’ve been sensitive, too. But, on the other hand, this sensitivity has people feeding into their own uncontrollable need to enforce civility in this comments section, and tone-policing literally any sentiment which might be slightly discordant, like they’re the busybody aunt at Thanksgiving dinner.

        The people who enjoy criticism and venting, though, rightfully take this constant drone of disdain for their feelings, as demands to silence themselves, and they they redirect that frustration at being silenced, into treating other people who repost the same take every day, with the same degree of perceived malice. So, we get this perpetual spiral, where nobody is even being that spicy or aggressive to one another, but everybody is projecting mild disagreement onto the bigger wounds left festering from the period of major unrest.

        It would be so easy for us all to stop snipping at each other over petty disagreements; but, then it feels like we’re just letting the people who we feel are being needlessly mean to us get away with putting us down. This is not a one-sided thing: it’s a perpetual spiral, that almost every regular commenter is at least somewhat guilty of perpetuating. We’re all shadow-boxing the demons that we’re projecting onto each other, and if any one side quits first, it feels like ceding the bigger, more serious arguments to those who have caused us hurt, so it’s a struggle to stop doing it.

        At the end of the day, the solution is exactly the same “easy” solution that we yell at every DoA character when they’re being a self-destructive dumb-fuck: Just grow the fuck up, be mature about it, and think about somebody or something outside your own immediate feelings and needs.

        As it turns out, that’s just not as easy as we all tend to make it out to be, and it doesn’t give us the same immediate emotional catharsis, of taking pot shots at one another all goddamned day. So, we get to stay in the wounds and the tension, perpetually, until everybody who isn’t like this gradually disengages from the comments.

        1. Big Z

          Yeah. I ended up making a concerted effort in kinda two stages to try to unpack some of that stuff — at first, kinda pointedly reminding people “uh, I didn’t say that, I just happen to be barely adjacent to someone who did” when things got vitriolic, but nowadays it’s really more along the lines of trying to be gentler and also less reactive.

          Which of course has the weird side effect of “finding myself asking people ostensibly on ‘my side’ to tone it down” sometimes.

    2. Mr D

      We’re closing in on “rather than a hater containment thread, we’ll be needing a lover containment thread” levels of bitterness here.

  50. zee

    how it feels to wake up in the morning and check todays comments on dumbing of age dot com

    1. zee

      I feel like I woke up in the post apocalypse

    2. apocryphascribe

      Zee, I was here when the comic first posted, and when I saw that the HCT was the very first comment, I just closed the tab and went to bed. I knew something like this was going to happen, but still, what a wasteland.

      1. zee

        In my 12(?) years of reading I’ve never seen the vibe be so tangibly off

      2. Jay

        Reading Willis’ response to it all is what’s having my take a step back

  51. Wendy

    Ayyyy! I got this strip in the free bookmarks at SPX! 😀 This was a cute one.

  52. Andy

    There’s some real “death of the author” stuff in the comments. DYW has a plan for the comic. It was clearly Dorothy and Joyce going back years. It’s not even tangentially about US foreign policy. It’s gonna be filled with hijinks. A lot of people want it to meet their needs or requirements. That’s not how any of this works. He’s writing what he wants. If enough people read it he makes a living. He’s not selling a mass market product where he needs to respond to customer demand.

    Telling him he needs to do this or that to meet your requirements is not gonna work. Feel free to interpret the comic. Just remember the author is still alive and will write what they need to write. I am surprised he doesn’t nuke the comments entirely.

    1. C.T Phipps

      They’re together but who knows it will last. Because DRAMA.

    2. Gotthammer

      I don’t think you know what death of the author is. It’s a literary analysis technique of approaching a work and discarding anything about the author has stated as their intent for the work.

      Reading the text but discarding authorial intent is used to look at what is there that the author might not have intended, but illustrates broader cultural ideas and norms.

      For instance what does the use of a real anti-genocide protest for a faux-wedding backdrop say about how the deaths of foreigners – especially non-white foreigners – are exploited by Western writers?

      What does it say that the protest was fictionalised to “Bulmeria” – a country that had previously been used for a punchline where it was implied to have been made up by Robin?

      Regardless of the method of critique, any piece of art is up for criticism on its form and message.

      Also, as an aside, it is explicitly about the university supporting to military contractors that are enabling a foreign genocide. If you don’t think that is about US foreign policy I’m gonna be blunt: I don’t think you are adequately equipped for any discussion about writing, criticism, or even basic literally analysis.

      1. zee

        Yeah you can’t just…..say no to death of the author. That’s just an inherent thing the second any creative work reaches a second pair of eyes

  53. Bill Erak

    If discourse is this bad right now, imagine when the Trans Walky reveal finally happens.

    1. Mitzi B.

      “Walky transitions” is yet another storyline I am metaphorically begging Willis not to write. There’s no way it’s gonna be handled well.

      It’s a fun headcanon though.

      1. Bill Erak

        >There’s no way it’s gonna be handled well.
        Why? I get he fucked up with the protest stuff, but so far the LGBT stuff has been pretty on-point. Unless you think Joyce and Dorothy cheating is HUGELY PROBLEMATIC because bi people are never allowed to mess up, in which case I can’t help you.

        Also it’s /absolutely/ gonna happen. When I do a 3rd run through the comic I’m absolutely making a collection of every time Walky is totally normal about gender and shows absolutely no trans inclinations at all.

        1. apocryphascribe

          Lmao we made functionally the same comment at the same time. It’s a sign, Willis! Pull the REAL drama tag off and give the people what they want! /s

        2. Throwatron

          I think Walky should consume Booster whole to assume a non-binary gender, thus freeing themselves from both an annoying roommate and the shackles of gendered self-expectations. Not because I have a problem with Booster, or anything; I just feel like they would Get It, and they’re nothing if not weirdly supportive of dramatic nonsense.

      2. apocryphascribe

        I’m actually going to make the hottest of takes here and say that I trust Willis to handle that WAY more than I trusted them to handle the protest stuff.

        1. Throwatron

          I feel like you were being sarcastic but I feel the need to say that, nah, that’s one of the lukewarmest takes ever. It’s more lukewarm than the inside of a Tauntaun.

      3. sickolesbian

        why tho, like, willis is transssss? idk if they identify with that word? but they use they pronouns and do a good job writing the two trans girls so idk

        1. Li

          Nonbinary. Last I checked, still feeling imposter-syndrome-y about using any other words, but that’s an extremely quintessential part of the queer experience in general and the trans experience in specific.

    2. apocryphascribe

      I need this for so, so many reasons. I would be insufferable about it for months. But I’m gonna be honest, I don’t think that discourse will match this one. The levels of vitriol here and on Patreon have been incredibly mind boggling to witness as a long time reader. I struggle to conceptualize it getting even worse than it already has.

      1. Bill Erak

        You underestimate the power of transmisogyny. I believe the 2 times a comment section has been completely nuked from orbit in this comic it was in regards to Carla, and she barely shows up.

        1. apocryphascribe

          You know what, you make a fair point here. And any of that would only be further heightened by transmisogynoir, so I might be tripping!

        2. Mitzi B.

          Carla is a blend of “written to be annoying” and “some commenters will find her extra annoying because of transmisogyny.” I’d discount that as a one-off, but then you look at some other characters – Malaya is trans and written to be annoying, Booster is nonbinary and written to be annoying – and I start seeing a pattern that makes me pessimistic about what a trans Walky would be like in canon.

        3. Bill Erak

          I’ll give you Carla, she is purposefully abrasive and it’s obviously something she does on purpose because she’s trans. And I love her for it!
          But Malaya and Booster? Annoying?
          W h a t?
          Malaya was only ever ‘annoying’ to Sal, and that was because Sal was jealous. Other than that they’re kind of an average somewhat edgy teen.
          And Booster is somewhat flamboyant, and has that psychology-student pseudoanalitical stuff going on, but I’ve never read them as annoying, and definitely not ‘written to be’ so.

        4. Zamperla

          Booster is About as silly and kinda loves watching trainwrecks as any other character, Malaya is abraisive… like sal or mike or ruth or (etc). And carlas perfect. Im with bill theyre just. Characters. Not “written to be annoying”.

        5. Mitzi B.

          Well, I read them as written to be annoying, so we will have to disagree.

        6. Clif

          I’m willing to agree with you if you also admit Walky is written to be annoying, Joyce is written to be annoying, Becky is written to be annoying, Sal is written to be annoying, Robin is written to be annoying, Roz is written to be annoying, Rachael is written to be annoying, and Mike was perfect in every way.

        7. Clif

          For a nickel.

        8. Yotomoe

          Honestly thats what I was gonna say. The DOA cast are sorta like the Always sunny or community casts where theyre all kinda obnoxious assholes. (Positive). Its the source of most of the comics humor. Realistically I dont think I would want to spend the day with any of these guys.

        9. Mitzi B.

          No, can’t really agree with most of those.

        10. Throwatron

          I’m starting to think that maybe an ensemble cast of characters that are varying levels of self-insert all being annoying, may have less to do with direct authorial intent, and more to do with the author being a human being, and thus having at least some annoying traits. No real, honest person is devoid of annoying traits.

          There’s an adage about being a professional wrestler, and having to come up with a “gimmick” to represent yourself to the audience: “The best gimmicks are just aspects of your real self, except the volume dial is turned all the way up to eleven.” When you want to make a character that is funny, that is melodramatically compelling, that is larger than life, one of the best ways to do that is to start with a character you can relate to easily, and then exaggerate their core traits so that they function effectively in a serial narrative. Every character in the strip has a few quirks, and every character in the strip has those quirks played up to maximum intensity, as a vehicle for cartoon hijinks. So, when you apply any sort of realistic worldview to any of these characters, instead of accepting that they are cartoonish facsimiles of reality, then hell yeah, they’re all annoying!

          If there’s anything intentional in Willis “deliberately writing characters to be annoying,” I think it’s less that it’s that simple, and maybe more so that Willis has not been 20 for quite a long time, and so maybe their idea of how 20 year olds act and think, is coloured by the reality that they are writing this comic from an inescapably adult perspective on what they remember life being like, when they were these characters’ ages. They aren’t making the characters annoying; they’re making the characters 20, and 20 year olds are annoying to everybody >5 years older than them, which is a social pattern that generally continues until people hit their mid-30s.

          Trust me, once all the characters in this strip are 40 years old, we’ll have nothing to complain about!

        11. Zamperla

          i think you just find them annoying and decided the author did that on purpose, specifically, as different then the rest of the cast.

        12. Dragonfire

          Every single character in this strip has traits that make them annoying to someone, guaranteed.

          It’s also why they’re so often interesting, frankly. People can be damned annoying and sometimes you just have to live with that.

    3. C.T Phipps

      I think Walky is bi but I’m less persuaded there’s any trans promotion.

      It requires us to believe that Walky is overcompensating with his performative masculinity, which I don’t think we’ve gotten any hint of.

      1. C.T Phipps

        Take note I’m open to being persuaded otherwise.

        1. Throwatron

          I think it’s really just mostly a meme. But it’s also a funny meme, so a lot of us are here for it. Plus, she’d be cute as heck.

      2. Bill Erak

        What got me to actually start thinking about Walky being trans was that one strip where Carla gives him one look and tells him “You can still reach your potential”, which in her case obviously means crack that egg. And suddenly every time Walky was strangely overperformative about his gender started making sense.

        Remember when the first “conflict” he got was that he wanted to buy girl pants? I’m sure that means nothing at all.

        1. Lee

          It was just pajama “jeans”, wasn’t it? I thought the issue there was that they were supposedly too slovenly (which, fwiw, is also very in character for Walky), not that they were supposedly “too girly”.

          But even if I’m wrong about that, I feel like that’s well within the realm of “society deciding so-and-so is only for girls sometimes just means society is fucking stupid and judgmental, not that you’re a girl”.

        2. Bill Erak

          no no, Walky was all about buying them, but because they were for girls he couldn’t. But he still wanted them so badly he tried to rope some of the girls into buying one to live ‘vicariously’ through them.

          In the end, Mike bought a knockoff male version for him.

      3. Bill Erak

        Oh and then his first ‘conflict’ after the timeskip was, you know, his hair being ‘girly’.
        I’m just saying. There’s a pattern here.

        1. apocryphascribe

          Both of your comments are things I completely forgot, and we can add them to the list I just made! Looks like evidence continues to stack up.

      4. apocryphascribe

        The “Walky is trans” headcanon/meme is hard carried by certain repeated elements that just seem to keep coming up in Willis’s work. Lemme go find it, I sent it to some friends on Discord a month ago.

        Okay, here we go. No links provided because I’m not trying to get caught by the automod, maybe someone else can provide those or correct my citations.

        – Post on tumblr from user animation-recaps-by-sean featuring a series of panels from It’s Walky (?), where Walky is singing in the bathroom “Who is that girl I see, staring straight back at me~”, with him saying in the following panel “There must be a more emasculating Disney song to get stuck in my head.” Willis reblogged it onto the itswalky tumblr with the response “I think about this strip a lot.”
        – DoA strip on April 24th, 2018 where Jason and Walky are drunk at Galasso’s, and Jason drunkenly states that Walky “would be very pretty if he were a girl.”
        – DoA strip on November 10th, 2023, where Walky is talking with Carla who has come to bother him about Charlie’s location, and she states in response to him having a girlfriend with “Huh, the correct gender. And *you* still have time to realize your full potential”, with all the implications that carries.
        – Preview panel posted on the DoA tumblr from March 2026 of Walky in front of a prominently placed “I Saw The TV Glow” movie poster in the background, a film explicitly thematically about the “egg crack”, i.e. realizing you’re trans

        I know there are more, those are just the biggest ones.

        1. Bill Erak

          I didn’t see that preview panel of the poster but girl I’m gonna be so normal about it.

        2. apocryphascribe

          Now add the two things Bill Erak mentioned above (Walky feeling conflicted about wanting to buy “girl pants”, and the post-timeskip conflict about his “girly hair”), and suddenly this begins looking like a pretty consistent pattern, huh? Just saying, we aren’t bringing this out of nowhere.

        3. LiamKav

          Was there any comments about his pyjamas pants being “girly”? I thought the issue with them was, well, that he was wandering around in pyjamas and Dorothy thought he could dress “nicer”?

        4. LiamKav

          (I could easily be wrong, though. I’d go back and check but do you know how much wrapping I’ve got to get done?)

        5. Yotomoe

          There weren’t any comments from him about them being girly if I recall. Merely that he was frustrated that Pajama jeans were basically tailored more towards women meaning he couldn’t find a male equivalent until Mike bought him more generic knockoff pants.

        6. Clif

          I believe the girly comments were reserved for having more than one pair of shoes, something he was much too masculine to do.

        7. Yotomoe

          I felt that in my soul tho. I absolutely only had one pair of sneakers for most of my life…including now I guess. Just supplement that with my required work shoes. I have boots technically but I never wear em. They hurt my feet.

        8. LiamKav

          Until Joe called him out on it.

          Walky has (had?) an idea of masculinity that he developed when he was 13 and never bothered to update.

        9. Bill Erak

          Quick correction: I didn’t say Walky thought the pants were ‘girly’. He just refused to buy them for himself because they were only made for girls.

          Which is essentially the same but if you wanna be precise…

        10. sickolesbian

          oh my gods, please, please please please, pleaseeeeeeee oh my gods

          ty for all these things lol i didnt realize there was like, any textual basis for it

  54. Zamperla

    the lettuce TOUCHING like five other things is NOT purified by going through dorothys sweet blonde head. Noted.

    1. Throwatron

      Isn’t the whole point of a crunchwrap to separate the two types of textures that might not play well together? I thought it was all the cold, crunchy stuff on one side, and the warm, mushy stuff on the other. Which, the former thing IIRC is Joyce’s overall problem with the ingredients. Things shouldn’t ever be chunky, or lacking in uniformity.

  55. wakeangel2001

    when I get a crunch wrap I order it with no sour cream, but then what else is in it? ground beef, lettuce, tomato, cheese, a corn chip…seriously Dorothy what the hell?

  56. Perils

    Welp, finally found me in Joyce.

  57. Garry

    I see we got “Joyce Dorothy comic #57320 to bring the comic to a halt” still in action

    1. C.T Phipps

      With all respect to the characters, I am 100% more invested in the Bulmeria fallout and Asma than any aspect of Dorothy/Joyce being cute. I also totally hope Joyce cheats on Dorothy with Joe and Vice versa (Joe would not want to be the Other Partner) by accident.

      Because DRAMA and stupid decisions is why I’m here.

      More Bulmeria and cheating please.

  58. Lee

    Wow, I had no idea Joyce (and Willis) had it THIS bad. When I dated a vegetarian I always tried to proactive brush between eating any meat and trying to kiss her, but she never showed any hesitation times that I wasn’t able to (or forgot, I’m sure there were times I forgot).

  59. Taffy

    I hope Bulmeria gets glassed like Reach.

  60. Jdorr

    Those plain bean burritos are actually pretty decent so I could picture Joyce getting that(yes I am autistic, how could you tell?)

  61. MadContra

    The more reactions to this comic I read, the more I’m struck with how many people seem to believe that the purpose of narrative fiction should be for the author to demonstrate moral correctness to the audience. The most morally correct action would be for Joyce and Dorothy to put their entire lives on hold and dedicate themselves to solving the ethnic cleansing in totally-not-Gaza. They aren’t doing that, therefore they’re bad. Willis isn’t writing it that way, therefore they’re bad too. The most correct thing would be for Joyce and Dorothy to understand their budding attraction to each other, and either break up with their partners beforehand, or stop spending time with each other to remove temptation. They didn’t, Willis didn’t, they’re all bad. The most correct thing would be for Joyce to accept she’s bi/pan/poly/etc the very moment she realized she was attracted to women so she could educate the audience she doesn’t know exists that those orientations and relationships are equally valid. She didn’t, Willis didn’t, so on…

    And there’s room for fiction like this; see Star Trek. But Star Trek takes place in an idealized far future where many of our current social ills have been reduced dramatically or outright solved. And even there, much of the drama comes when characters struggle with, or fail at, living up to the enlightened morals of their time.

    Dumbing of Age is a slice-of-life comedy taking place in modern Indiana, featuring mostly characters whose frontal lobes haven’t fully formed yet. Like most of us, they are not living with the goal of impressing a hypothetical audience with their moral correctness. Like most of us, they are all some combination of selfish, ignorant, annoying, and closed-minded. Its main character is a recovering fundamentalist who is just barely starting to scratch the surface of who she is as an individual. In time, most of these people will grow and mature.

    If you don’t want to see that process, if you’d rather see paragons of human virtue be awesome and educate people, that’s completely fair. But I struggle to understand why you would expect to find that in this particular comic.

    1. Thing 2

      ^This

    2. Yotomoe

      Less that I want them to be perfect and moreso
      1. I wish the bulmeria protest thing simply wasn’t brought up at all and I wish it wasn’t still a major driving force of the comic cuz I find it tasteless
      2. Focus on characters other than joyce and dorothy since I’m not very fond of them as a couple or really individual characters during this storyline.
      I don’t want them to apologize to Asma. I dont want them to solve Bulmeria. I dont want them to be ideal or perfect or flawless. I just don’t find either of them very likable right now .

      Sorta like how theres people who dont like Robin or Malaya. Its just those characters dont appear very often.

    3. Mitzi B.

      Flawed, annoying, imperfect characters are a lot of fun to read (Amber/Amazi-girl are a personal favorite of mine, and she’s all three at various times), and I expect the stories featuring them to be messy, but there’s still the metatextual opinion I have that some of these storylines aren’t as good as other ones, and that can’t be blamed on the characters, since they’re not the ones writing the story.

      Which is why I both like reading the comic *and* really want the protest plotline to end. I want to see these characters in other Situations!

    4. apocryphascribe

      Can’t speak for anyone else, but my biggest complaint for months is that there isn’t nearly *enough* mess. In fact, we are at the stage where the “flawed, selfish, ignorant” characters are acting way too mature and composed for my tastes, especially compared to where I know they have been before character-wise. I recognize I’m in a very small minority though, and I also know from experience that the thing I’m complaining about is probably just a few short months away from changing.

    5. Gotthammer

      “characters whose frontal lobes haven’t fully formed yet”

      This is not a thing.

    6. yak

      Agreed on all points except for the “frontal lobes not fully formed” bit. It’s a myth that the brain finishes developing around some specific age in your early twenties.

      1. StClair

        I believe it’s recently been revealed/widely signal boosted that age (25) was simply when the study ended.

  62. C.T Phipps

    Due to my own neuroatypicality, it took me 40 years to eat a steak, rice, and bean burrito.

    Now I will eat it.

    And nothing else on the menu.

    1. Throwatron

      it really is funny how the right combination at the right time can, like, permanently flip the whole script, huh

  63. Thing 2

    OK, so. By accident, the hater thread came first. Not ideal, but not intentional. OK so, not surprisingly the author is a tad fed up with people’s shit, and an incident ensued.
    The thing is, and we all do know this, writing stuff in ‘social media’ is not the same as talking to people face to face, but it can sound the same. We all have to learn this. THINK about what you write. Doesn’t mean it can’t be critical, but the people you are talking to or about are either fictional characters, or real people (like the author/artist, or other readers). If they are real, be kind. Don’t be rude. Don’t keep repeating the same criticism as if people haven’t heard you. They have.
    I was honestly astonished that this comments section exists at all, but was told that the writer wishes to stay connected to how it is received. OK, so respect that. You are actually being consulted. Due to the long buffer, the storyline may not change immediately altho the Islamic characters response happened.
    David Willis is a real person, it is an honour to be able to see their artwork and read their story. Play nicely. Esp. since most people do play nicely.

    1. Thing 2

      And if you want the comic to go your way, draw it yourself.
      If you just love complaining, how about talking to a friend about it?
      If you hate the comic, stop reading/viewing the art, or take a break.
      If the comments are not for you, stop reading them, or take a break.
      If you want the comic to move faster, wait a month and catch up.
      All of this is down to self discipline. Have some.
      There, I told you what to do. Now tell me I can’t tell you what to do, because I have, but you, of course, can ignore that, with self discipline.
      I

      1. Throwatron

        It is nice to have an adult in the room, sometimes <3

        1. Thing 2

          Sorry, I’ll see myself out (but will be waiting outside behind a bush)

      2. Nymph

        You can’t tell me what to dooooooo!

        Sorry, I couldn’t help myself lol

    2. LiamKav

      I think it’s also important to realise that while the author has said that they do want the feedback, they are also well within their rights to ignore anything anyone says. Being a creative person is a balance between “Never listen to others” and “always listen to others”. And, like, he’s the successful published writer/artist of multiple comic series. There is a good chance that he knows how to tell a good story better than 99% of the people commenting.

      At the end of the day, this is “Dumbing of Age by David Willis”, not “Dumbing of Age by David Willis and the Comments Section”.

      1. Doopyboop

        Cosigning this comment, because absolutely. One thing to learn before creating anything is that you will never please everyone. You can follow every step, take all feedback, make the most homogenized, general crowd pleasing thing you can and someone somewhere will still dislike it for whatever reason because people are so varied and vast. And that’s okay! All anyone can do is tell the best story they can while honoring what point they’re trying to get across.

        Sometimes feedback and criticism needs to be taken ASAP. Sometimes you offer your criticism and the author respectfully goes “I understand your POV, however I do not wish to change my story” and from there it’s up to the consumer to figure out how to handle that. There’s many ways to enjoy a work, after all. I have more than a few movies that I recognize are sloppy, dumb, and overall just Not Good but I get a guilty pleasure out of the nuggets of actually fascinating or good quality shit in it that it makes for a fun rewatch.

        1. Li

          Genuinely seems like some folks have confused “the author hasn’t responded to my criticism in the exact way I wanted” for “the author hasn’t heard my criticism”.

          Not everyone. Just some folks.

          (God, self, just stop, fff. Close the tab.)

  64. Makkabee

    Joyce does have a point about Taco Bell being 80% gross things.

  65. Adept

    For the record, I’m a fan of Willis, and wish him further success.

    1. Adept

      *them, I think. Gendered pronouns are hard.

      1. Throwatron

        Last I checked both were fine, but these things can change

        1. Adept

          Cheers. I was left a little uncertain of their preference, for some reason.

  66. Thing 2

    I love how ‘ordinary’ this one is. Just eating lunch. I love the purple background, very appropriate. I love the ordinaryness of their conversation. I’m not a fan of talking heads, but ordinary *is* talking heads, often, and anyway, Dorothy is talking with her mouth full (yet her crunchwrap has no bitemarks and never gets any smaller), so that is different.
    I love that Dorothy says *If* laundry was sex – but doesn’t point out that Joyce has been sexually unfaithful to her with Joe, if laundry *was* sex. And you know what, I love the fact that maybe neither of them gives a fuck about it.

  67. grant

    Internalized homophobia: DEFEATED
    Internalized germophobia: THE BATTLE CONTINUES

  68. Stormtide Leviathan

    Taking a bold stance and voting all of the above on the poll. Last time we saw her at taco bell she said “as long as there’s not lettuce, the texture’s too different” which to me implies multiple things on the burrito with a similar enough texture to one another

  69. Wendy

    Sooo close to 600 comments on this one, quick someone start a fight and maybe we can get to 666 before next strip goes up

    1. yak

      ok uhhhh kissing at the protest actually did more damage to the movement than the cops, Dorothy is codependent on Joyce and their toxic relationship is a bad role model for queer people everywhere, Joyce is a Mary Sue, and Danny should hook up with Joe and it’s okay for him to cheat on Sal because in my headcanon they’re in an open relationship.

      (/s in case someone needs it)

  70. Pappenheimer

    There is a lot of good food that could be sold from places now occupied by Taco Bells. Where are the Cornish Pasties, The Tikka Masala, the Satay? The actual Mexican food, even?

    O Absalom!

  71. Acher4

    Wow!! The comments are fiilled to the max with “moral superiors” on this update attacking the characters… AND the creator!
    How nice…

    I’m shocked. Shocked!

    Well, not that shocked. *eyeroll*

  72. Agentomega

    Re: The burrito poll:
    I picked “All of the Above somehow”, because when I was in college I’d straight up request a bean burrito with cheese, sour cream, and guac, omitting chicken (despite liking chicken) specifically because the thermal mass was higher, so it stayed warmer longer, and the texture was better without the chicken. (I realized I was neurodivergent way later, but unironically using the phrase “the burrito had higher thermal mass without the chicken” really should’ve tipped me off back then.)

    So taking it from Joyce’s “things can’t touch”/texture sensitivity PoV, what if the things have touched so much they become a homogenous mixture befitting her palate? After all, Mac and cheese is the perfect example of “the macaroni and cheese mixture has been uniformly distributed.”

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