Setting herself up? She’s openly stating “I want to get drunk and laid tonight” of her own free will. I think she and Roz will get on great.
kagato23
So drunk apparently she’s incapable of asking for sex? That denotes a drinking problem more then sexual freedom. I imagine Roz is very much in the “fully capable of consent” camp.
Filthy Pazuzu
I think Billie’s ‘too drunk’ comment was an exaggeration. I often made similar statements when I was preparing for a mass extinction of brain cells. I don’t think Billie actually approves of being groped without consent.
Personally, I think some commenters here need to lighten up, you’re sounding a bit like Joyce. There’s nothing wrong – at all – with enjoying sex.
JK9000
Now that you say that, that makes sense. It’d be more willing to take it as a joke if Billie weren’t an alcoholic, tho.
kagato23
As Jk9000 says, on most characters that’d be a given. But we know for a fact one reality’s version of Billie was quite literally an alcoholic that bad, and this one has so far been established as the same in that regard.
Rheios
I’ve never understood why someone can’t enjoy sex and still suggest people not go around doing it a lot. The two are rather different points.
Liberal1337
If you had gone to college you’d realize that it’s not a drinking problem until you graduate.
Aisling
Eehhh… women’s lib is about being their own person without having to have men demeaning them If she wants to be a sex object thats her choice as a woman. Snarking at her for doing it is no better than a guy slut-shaming her. Women have more power being feminine and using their sex than most realise.
There’s being open about her sexual desires, and then there’s wearing shirts to get guys for when she’s too drunk to even ask them to have sex with her.
And she knowing plans for that occasion, too. Oh, Billie.
Ancestral Hamster
Agreed. There’s nothing wrong with going around the block a few times. It’s something else entirely to be public transportation.
Andy
Waitwaitwait wait. There was a huge discussion a few strips back about how great it is that Roz is trying to make it acceptable for girls to have as much sex as they want. Now, when we have a girl who’s trying to have as much sex as she wants, it’s not acceptable. What gives, people?
Because she’s perpetuating the idea that it’s okay to take advantage of girls. Roz was advocating choice and that it was hers alone.
Andy
So what? Roz was lauded by half the board because she didn’t care about the negative consequences to others in her quest for sexual freedom. Why should Billie now have to do otherwise?
creaks
Ever think the people you are arguing with are part of the ‘Other half of the board’?
You know the ones that didnt laud Roz?
And really what Billies doing isnt anything close to what Roz claimed she was doing, or actually did.
Jo
There is a concern that these statements could be seen, by some, as a statement that it is acceptable to have sex with people who are too drunk to talk. Not that this is the intention the author, I’m sure. But it’s still troubling. I’m guessing neither the feminists nor the more conservative folks here would go for that.
The big difference between Roz and Billie comes down to the word “beg”. Billie is willing to demean herself for sex, Roz never begged, nor did she act differently due to some chemical. She kept her dignity in a way that Billie hasn’t.
But then, that’s alcoholism for you, I guess. Thinking of, that may be the real problem. Roz hasn’t really harmed anyone unintentionally, she meant to hurt her sister. Billie is acting the way she does because of a disease which clouds her judgement. That’s pretty sad. I think it’s a big part of why Billie is my favourite character; she has the most growing up to do.
Daibhid C
PERSON A: I like to give money to the homeless. And I’ll do do publically even though my sister’s policy is that homeless people don’t deserve our support, because I want to make the point that I think she’s wrong.
PERSON B: I’m going to get drunk and flash cash around until I’m mugged.
Yes,. these scenarios are clearly exactly the same.
R
Because Billie is enabling creepers and the scary I-don’t-need-to-treat-women-as-people-who-should-be-talked-to-them-to-get-what-I-want mentality, where as Roz was enabling women to admit if they want sex without feeling shame. Billie’s message is scary because not all women are Billie. Some may dress up to feel good about their bodies (or because it’s hot out and they’re prone to heat-stroke) in the way Billie dresses up to signal that she’s giving carte blanche consenting. Which is why frequent enthusiastic consent is a major point in feminism groups, with that as a standard it’s always clear and there’s less room for “it was just a misunderstanding, I didn’t mean to do anything wrong so I shouldn’t be punished.”
Henry
Because Roz is about having the choice and being able to make the choice. She’s in control of herself when she makes it, and goes into it fully of her own free will.
Billie is just being straight-up irresponsible. It’s one thing to want to get laid. It’s another entirely to get yourself so intoxicated you’re incapable of making the choice for yourself.
Basically, the objectionable part is that Billie doesn’t even really care whether or not she has control over the choice to have sex or not. Roz cares about having her choice. Hence why Roz is more sympathetic on this issue than Billie is.
invisiblemoose
I was on your side (as per my earlier post) but thinking about it the problem I have is that Billie seems to think her clothes will be ‘begging for it’. That makes me hugely uncomfortable, as it appears to support the notion that clothes = consent.
That being said, if she wants to go get drunk and fuck randoms, that’s her choice.
Andy
Yeah, I got a bit defensive on the wrong part there. Going back to where I started, why is Roz not a slut, but Billie is? Why are we shaming Billie, but not Roz? I mean, it’s perfectly fine to be upset about her clothing choice and the reasoning behind it. However, at the time I originally posted, most of the posts ragging on Billie did so because she wanted to have more sex than Roz, not because she thought it was okay to be used. The post I directly responded to said, in different words, “It’s perfectly fine to have sex with a few people, but God help you if you have sex with a lot of people.” And that’s where I really have a problem with the inconsistency here.
invisiblemoose
Agreed.
Creaks
So you generalized ‘half the board’ off of one guys response?
Cause thats all there is. one guy. Everyone else before your post who dissaproved of billies actions had reasons that had next to NOTHING to do with SEX and most EVERYTHING to do with her planning an epic personal responsibility failure.
But you ignored that by pretending they all had the same reasons as the one person you gave as an example.
…..
……
………..
I LIKE IT!!!!
I’m going to generalize all women off of Billie!!!
Hey what are you doing? Quit squirming away and shouting, It makes it hard to do the sex.
Ya know, what Billie is endorsing here isn’t great (Revealing clothes are worn because women *want* to be taken advantage of!), but I’m always a little weirded out by the notion that every female at all times is personally responsible for maintaining her gender’s good image, or else Congress will rescind suffrage.
I don’t think anyone is saying that all women are like Billie, or that Billie proves that women aren’t entitled to XYZ. To me it sounds like people are saying that she (as a person, not as her gender) is stupid and what she’s saying is problematic.
Joe’s gotten crap for things that were equally creepy that he’s said here. I don’t see the sexism. Feminism doesn’t mean that women should be immune from any and all criticism. It means they should be treated as people, the same way men are. In 2008 nobody talked about how many children Biden had, or how sexually appealing he was or wasn’t, therefore bringing up those issues with Sarah Palin was sexist. Bringing up Palin’s lack of experience, or how bad her policy proposals are, on the other hand isn’t sexist, as that’s germane to her endeavors and male politicians have to go through that too.
JK9000
I think you maybe read more into my comment than what was there? I don’t have a problem with criticizing what Billie said– I do it myself, you might have noticed– I’m just saying, “setting woman kind back 90 years” is a bizarre way to phrase that criticism.
I quoted you, JK9000, on facebook because I wholeheartedly agree with your position. It is completely irrational to think that a woman will no longer be a feminist if she chooses sexual licentiousness, housewifery, or to conform to a traditional image of womanhood. I believe the operative word there is “choose,” because feminism should be about giving women equal options as men, not conformity to a predetermined mode.
Probably not as bad as the reply I was going to make to Izzy about water under the bridge …
Just for kix
Billie, Sal, Joe today, Joyce left for church to pray,
Sarah was the one who burnt the bridges though
Roz, Robin made the scene, Leslie could not stop blushing,
Don’t fuck in my property and peace out said the deano
We didn’t start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world’s been turning
We didn’t start the fire
No we didn’t light it
But we tried to fight it
G.S.Mercs
While I enjoy your attempt, the lyrics do not sync up in areas with the melody of the song, or they do, but only if you force them. Overall, a good attempt that can use some work (I swear I’m joking)
Just for kix
Thanks 🙂 I was just joshing however. As I read the thread, the same song got into my head. If Aizat hadn’t made his post about the song, I would have :-). Since he already did, I just continued the thread :P. Though, yeah, I agree it definitely could use a lot of work 🙂
Joyce needs to experience the world, but she’s the kind who needs to be introduced to it sloooowly.
Taking her to the party at this point in her emotional development wouldn’t just be throwing her into the deep end. It would be throwing her into the deepend with cement shoes.
I dont know about that, I mean she went on a date with Joe and fared better that he did. Besides, she could pay mike to guard her.
Heavensrun
Despite his sexually enthusiastic nature, Joe is respectful of women’s right to consent. He wouldn’t ever force himself on someone who didn’t want to be with him.
You can not safely assume that is the case at a party full of drunk frat boys.
Depends on what you mean by “experience the world.” Some experiences, such as date rape or just forceful, drunken advances, aren’t something that enrich your life.
OTOH, Joyce has a pretty solid core in her beliefs that Sarah is underestimating by claiming (now twice) that she can’t stand up for herself under pressure from horny guys.
I would LOVE to see the chain of events beginning here that leads to President Parker. I’m guessing she becomes a key figure when Roz goes into politics herself, around the time that the Democratic Party gets sex-positive enough to include her, and from there it’s just a matter of using the old favor bank.
That would have made WWII a lot more interesting, but I meant the Nazi party. And, sadly, put down the wrong abbreviation…should’ve been NSDAP.
Mkvenner
New Democratic Party.
G.S.Mercs
They were talking about American political parties, not Canadian. Besides, if Dorothy ran the NDP I would stop voting for them in the elections. I can’t stand Dorothy so far as a character.
of course it would be great if something happened at the party so that shell have to tell her grandkids that the reason she wasn’t president was because she DID wade through a college drunkfest
193 thoughts on “Bridges”
Deuecebag
Oh Billie, setting woman kind back 90 years.
Plasma Mongoose
But the 1920s were a great time for women’s lib.
Liberal1337
You mean by being open about her sexual desires?
Cos
No, by setting herself up solely as a sexual object.
David Herbert
Setting herself up? She’s openly stating “I want to get drunk and laid tonight” of her own free will. I think she and Roz will get on great.
kagato23
So drunk apparently she’s incapable of asking for sex? That denotes a drinking problem more then sexual freedom. I imagine Roz is very much in the “fully capable of consent” camp.
Filthy Pazuzu
I think Billie’s ‘too drunk’ comment was an exaggeration. I often made similar statements when I was preparing for a mass extinction of brain cells. I don’t think Billie actually approves of being groped without consent.
Personally, I think some commenters here need to lighten up, you’re sounding a bit like Joyce. There’s nothing wrong – at all – with enjoying sex.
JK9000
Now that you say that, that makes sense. It’d be more willing to take it as a joke if Billie weren’t an alcoholic, tho.
kagato23
As Jk9000 says, on most characters that’d be a given. But we know for a fact one reality’s version of Billie was quite literally an alcoholic that bad, and this one has so far been established as the same in that regard.
Rheios
I’ve never understood why someone can’t enjoy sex and still suggest people not go around doing it a lot. The two are rather different points.
Liberal1337
If you had gone to college you’d realize that it’s not a drinking problem until you graduate.
Aisling
Eehhh… women’s lib is about being their own person without having to have men demeaning them If she wants to be a sex object thats her choice as a woman. Snarking at her for doing it is no better than a guy slut-shaming her. Women have more power being feminine and using their sex than most realise.
AaronS
There’s being open about her sexual desires, and then there’s wearing shirts to get guys for when she’s too drunk to even ask them to have sex with her.
And she knowing plans for that occasion, too. Oh, Billie.
Ancestral Hamster
Agreed. There’s nothing wrong with going around the block a few times. It’s something else entirely to be public transportation.
Andy
Waitwaitwait wait. There was a huge discussion a few strips back about how great it is that Roz is trying to make it acceptable for girls to have as much sex as they want. Now, when we have a girl who’s trying to have as much sex as she wants, it’s not acceptable. What gives, people?
dchorror
Because she’s perpetuating the idea that it’s okay to take advantage of girls. Roz was advocating choice and that it was hers alone.
Andy
So what? Roz was lauded by half the board because she didn’t care about the negative consequences to others in her quest for sexual freedom. Why should Billie now have to do otherwise?
creaks
Ever think the people you are arguing with are part of the ‘Other half of the board’?
You know the ones that didnt laud Roz?
And really what Billies doing isnt anything close to what Roz claimed she was doing, or actually did.
Jo
There is a concern that these statements could be seen, by some, as a statement that it is acceptable to have sex with people who are too drunk to talk. Not that this is the intention the author, I’m sure. But it’s still troubling. I’m guessing neither the feminists nor the more conservative folks here would go for that.
The big difference between Roz and Billie comes down to the word “beg”. Billie is willing to demean herself for sex, Roz never begged, nor did she act differently due to some chemical. She kept her dignity in a way that Billie hasn’t.
But then, that’s alcoholism for you, I guess. Thinking of, that may be the real problem. Roz hasn’t really harmed anyone unintentionally, she meant to hurt her sister. Billie is acting the way she does because of a disease which clouds her judgement. That’s pretty sad. I think it’s a big part of why Billie is my favourite character; she has the most growing up to do.
Daibhid C
PERSON A: I like to give money to the homeless. And I’ll do do publically even though my sister’s policy is that homeless people don’t deserve our support, because I want to make the point that I think she’s wrong.
PERSON B: I’m going to get drunk and flash cash around until I’m mugged.
Yes,. these scenarios are clearly exactly the same.
R
Because Billie is enabling creepers and the scary I-don’t-need-to-treat-women-as-people-who-should-be-talked-to-them-to-get-what-I-want mentality, where as Roz was enabling women to admit if they want sex without feeling shame. Billie’s message is scary because not all women are Billie. Some may dress up to feel good about their bodies (or because it’s hot out and they’re prone to heat-stroke) in the way Billie dresses up to signal that she’s giving carte blanche consenting. Which is why frequent enthusiastic consent is a major point in feminism groups, with that as a standard it’s always clear and there’s less room for “it was just a misunderstanding, I didn’t mean to do anything wrong so I shouldn’t be punished.”
Henry
Because Roz is about having the choice and being able to make the choice. She’s in control of herself when she makes it, and goes into it fully of her own free will.
Billie is just being straight-up irresponsible. It’s one thing to want to get laid. It’s another entirely to get yourself so intoxicated you’re incapable of making the choice for yourself.
Basically, the objectionable part is that Billie doesn’t even really care whether or not she has control over the choice to have sex or not. Roz cares about having her choice. Hence why Roz is more sympathetic on this issue than Billie is.
invisiblemoose
I was on your side (as per my earlier post) but thinking about it the problem I have is that Billie seems to think her clothes will be ‘begging for it’. That makes me hugely uncomfortable, as it appears to support the notion that clothes = consent.
That being said, if she wants to go get drunk and fuck randoms, that’s her choice.
Andy
Yeah, I got a bit defensive on the wrong part there. Going back to where I started, why is Roz not a slut, but Billie is? Why are we shaming Billie, but not Roz? I mean, it’s perfectly fine to be upset about her clothing choice and the reasoning behind it. However, at the time I originally posted, most of the posts ragging on Billie did so because she wanted to have more sex than Roz, not because she thought it was okay to be used. The post I directly responded to said, in different words, “It’s perfectly fine to have sex with a few people, but God help you if you have sex with a lot of people.” And that’s where I really have a problem with the inconsistency here.
invisiblemoose
Agreed.
Creaks
So you generalized ‘half the board’ off of one guys response?
Cause thats all there is. one guy. Everyone else before your post who dissaproved of billies actions had reasons that had next to NOTHING to do with SEX and most EVERYTHING to do with her planning an epic personal responsibility failure.
But you ignored that by pretending they all had the same reasons as the one person you gave as an example.
…..
……
………..
I LIKE IT!!!!
I’m going to generalize all women off of Billie!!!
Hey what are you doing? Quit squirming away and shouting, It makes it hard to do the sex.
Liberal1337
Even Jesus loved the whores
JK9000
Ya know, what Billie is endorsing here isn’t great (Revealing clothes are worn because women *want* to be taken advantage of!), but I’m always a little weirded out by the notion that every female at all times is personally responsible for maintaining her gender’s good image, or else Congress will rescind suffrage.
R
I don’t think anyone is saying that all women are like Billie, or that Billie proves that women aren’t entitled to XYZ. To me it sounds like people are saying that she (as a person, not as her gender) is stupid and what she’s saying is problematic.
Joe’s gotten crap for things that were equally creepy that he’s said here. I don’t see the sexism. Feminism doesn’t mean that women should be immune from any and all criticism. It means they should be treated as people, the same way men are. In 2008 nobody talked about how many children Biden had, or how sexually appealing he was or wasn’t, therefore bringing up those issues with Sarah Palin was sexist. Bringing up Palin’s lack of experience, or how bad her policy proposals are, on the other hand isn’t sexist, as that’s germane to her endeavors and male politicians have to go through that too.
JK9000
I think you maybe read more into my comment than what was there? I don’t have a problem with criticizing what Billie said– I do it myself, you might have noticed– I’m just saying, “setting woman kind back 90 years” is a bizarre way to phrase that criticism.
Shengokai
I quoted you, JK9000, on facebook because I wholeheartedly agree with your position. It is completely irrational to think that a woman will no longer be a feminist if she chooses sexual licentiousness, housewifery, or to conform to a traditional image of womanhood. I believe the operative word there is “choose,” because feminism should be about giving women equal options as men, not conformity to a predetermined mode.
invisiblemoose
Because heaven forbid she’s doing this because she wants to do it for herself.
Plasma Mongoose
They burnt bridges? Talk about public menace!
Aizat
Do you know that they cut ties too?
Plasma Mongoose
Someone call the fashion police. 😛
Canvas Hat
Yeah! We need more fuel! Keep the bridge burning!
Izzy
we don’t need no water let the m—-r f—-r burn
Aizat
And if the police asked, we didn’t start the fire. It’s been always burning since the world’s been turning.
Plasma Mongoose
*groan*
Aizat
C’mon. It’s not that bad.
Plasma Mongoose
Maybe… 😛
madd
Probably not as bad as the reply I was going to make to Izzy about water under the bridge …
Just for kix
Billie, Sal, Joe today, Joyce left for church to pray,
Sarah was the one who burnt the bridges though
Roz, Robin made the scene, Leslie could not stop blushing,
Don’t fuck in my property and peace out said the deano
We didn’t start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world’s been turning
We didn’t start the fire
No we didn’t light it
But we tried to fight it
G.S.Mercs
While I enjoy your attempt, the lyrics do not sync up in areas with the melody of the song, or they do, but only if you force them. Overall, a good attempt that can use some work (I swear I’m joking)
Just for kix
Thanks 🙂 I was just joshing however. As I read the thread, the same song got into my head. If Aizat hadn’t made his post about the song, I would have :-). Since he already did, I just continued the thread :P. Though, yeah, I agree it definitely could use a lot of work 🙂
Jen Aside
Yeah, why would Joyce ever want to experience the world?
Dag, Sarah. Don’t trust Dorothy to be able to just stand by and watch (and carry a fresh can of Mace).
Trae Dorn
Joyce needs to experience the world, but she’s the kind who needs to be introduced to it sloooowly.
Taking her to the party at this point in her emotional development wouldn’t just be throwing her into the deep end. It would be throwing her into the deepend with cement shoes.
TheBenenator
Very slowly.
Possibly at a negative velocity, lest her mind goeth asplodey.
Liberal1337
I dont know about that, I mean she went on a date with Joe and fared better that he did. Besides, she could pay mike to guard her.
Heavensrun
Despite his sexually enthusiastic nature, Joe is respectful of women’s right to consent. He wouldn’t ever force himself on someone who didn’t want to be with him.
You can not safely assume that is the case at a party full of drunk frat boys.
Valdrax
Depends on what you mean by “experience the world.” Some experiences, such as date rape or just forceful, drunken advances, aren’t something that enrich your life.
OTOH, Joyce has a pretty solid core in her beliefs that Sarah is underestimating by claiming (now twice) that she can’t stand up for herself under pressure from horny guys.
Aizat
Sarah, you burn bridges with everybody.
TheAlucinaut
“Woah, I’ve never done a Burned Bridge with you, Sarah! You wish. Though…odds are I might be doing one later on tonight!”
MarcinMN
Wow, she thinks she’ll be President because of this? Now THAT’S an optimistic outlook in life. 😉
Gordon
Making friends with the sister of a Congresswoman could easily be a leg up.
Mkvenner
Depends on the MP.
Robert
And fucking the sister of a congresswoman is definitely the easiest way to get a leg up. Both even…while braced against the headboard.
Semysane
More like the easiest way to get a leg over.
T Campbell
I would LOVE to see the chain of events beginning here that leads to President Parker. I’m guessing she becomes a key figure when Roz goes into politics herself, around the time that the Democratic Party gets sex-positive enough to include her, and from there it’s just a matter of using the old favor bank.
David
I think you got your Dorothies crossed.
Canvas Hat
Wait, what political party would Dorothy be in?
Mkvenner
Green Party.
wandering meme
Of course the opposition might use the pics from her drunken frat party escapade to discredit her…
aww, who cares? Vote Dorothy! Yes she can!
Jo
Dorothy is pretty career minded, and as I understand it the Greens in America aren’t winning elections yet. She’s a democrat.
Now Roz I could see running for the presidency on a Green ticket. I’d vote for her.
Mkvenner
NDP.
Andy
The only party I can know of with those letters is the NDSP, and I know you don’t mean that.
Plasma Mongoose
I googled and got this answer:
National Dryland Salinity Program
Sempiternity
Unfortunately, not that innocuous…
Andy
That would have made WWII a lot more interesting, but I meant the Nazi party. And, sadly, put down the wrong abbreviation…should’ve been NSDAP.
Mkvenner
New Democratic Party.
G.S.Mercs
They were talking about American political parties, not Canadian. Besides, if Dorothy ran the NDP I would stop voting for them in the elections. I can’t stand Dorothy so far as a character.
T Campbell
Where’s that edit feature
Valdrax
No, but she can say that she probably *won’t* be President if she folds under nerves and fear of the unknown.
lord of dance
of course it would be great if something happened at the party so that shell have to tell her grandkids that the reason she wasn’t president was because she DID wade through a college drunkfest