Fun fact: a number of Jewish mystics were convinced that they had descended to the throne of God and measured, with precision, various lengths upon the body of God. Shoulder to shoulder, God is apparently ~56,035,000 miles wide. (Their unit of measure was the Persian “parasang”, which… we don’t have a very exact measure for, so the conversion I was given was 3.5 miles.) Your Google keyword of the day is “Shi’ur Qomah”.
marcus erronius
You buried the lede, there. In the same passage, they claim to know the name of God’s dangly bits.
Well spotted. It should in fact be attributed to William Bruce Cameron instead of Albert Einstein. The quote actually comes from Cameron’s 1963 text “Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking.”
The Wellerman
*looks up source of quote*
?
Live and learn, I guess.
eh, whatever
The pun only works in English; that makes it less likely that Einstein came up with it.
The Wellerman
Einstein learned to speak English when he came to the US, and even before then, no?
Not saying the conclusion is wrong though, just the additional evidence you tried to offer.
Decidedly Orthogonal
“Live and learn I guess.”
Ironically, painfully, illustrated to be false, with the number of covid survivors dying during their *second* round of the disease because they *still* didn’t get vaccinated.
Psychie
Speaking as someone who is vaccinated, I was under the impression that if one was already infected and survived then a vaccine was rendered unnecessary as you already had the antibodies. Like, I thought a vaccine worked because it injects you with a weakened/partially dead virus for your immune system to learn how to beat so it can fight the real virus later, so if it’s already fought off the real virus wouldn’t the vaccine be redundant? Genuinely asking, not trying to start a fight
Schpoonman
Many vaccines do use weakened or dead virules to prime the body’s immune system, but the mRNA vaccines that are all of the Covid vaccines don’t do that. They instead pull an IU/Asma, attach a picture of Billie Covid-19 and instructions on how to fight it to the injected materials, and send it to the body which then disemminates the instructions through the body. The side effects with the vaccine currently, which mostly amount to very low grade versions of Covid symptoms like soreness and fever, are a vaccinated body running through its systems testing immune response. No diease actually makes the body heat into a fever, it’s an immune response that kills disease.
Now with Covid, early tests showed that people who caught it and recovered had “better” antibodies than those who were vaccinated, but more recent testing has showed that vaccination provides longer-lasting protection and has protection against newer variants. If you somehow lucked your way through a Delta diagnosis without a shot (because vaccinated people overwhelmingly handle the disease well, or at least better than not getting the shot), Omicron gives zero shits whereas the shot (especially with a booster) will still provide protection.
Kalirren
Yes, that is the way it works, when it’s nice and neat and the virus doesn’t change too quickly. Previous infection works similarly to a vaccine and they partially substitute for one another. The problem with the common cold has always been that it changes too darn fast, so that by the time your body has “learned” how to beat ‘it’, a different strain is already beginning to make the neighborhood rounds. Some viruses evolve more quickly than others, which is why we need a different flu shot every year but chickenpox only once or twice in our lives.
That’s why the mRNA technology was so promising: it offered the possibility of quickly fabricating a vaccine against emerging variants, when previously it was just not worth it to make a dead-virus vaccine for a minor inconvenience, when it would only last a few months or one year tops before it failed to work quite as well, or at all, against the new prevalent strains.
COVID-19 changed the calculus. Its damage made it worth trying to make a vaccine anyway, even against the target that we knew was moving so fast. But as we can see, it’s still a hard problem.
thejeff
That’s not quite it with Covid – and some other diseases too. For some diseases immunity from either infection or vaccination is very long lasting or even permanent (think measles or chickenpox). Others, like the flu, change drastically so that exposure to this years doesn’t help much with next years.
Resistance to Covid though isn’t complete from the start with either vaccine or past infection and drops off significantly over 6 months or so, even if it’s the same variant. That’s why boosters were being recommended even before omicron came along.
Now – get your booster. If you’re not vaccinated yet, get started.
Wizard
There are actually a couple of issues with colds. First, “the cold” is a set of symptoms, not a specific virus. There are actually dozens of different viruses that can cause colds. Some of them also tend to mutate quickly, so no matter how many you develop resistance to, there’s always one more out there.
Secondly, there’s the length of resistance. In many cases, this varies with how dangerous the disease is. A cold may make you miserable for a few days, but it almost never kills anyone. Because there’s a certain biological cost to maintaining resistance, it’s more efficient to fight off “nuisance” infections repeatedly than to maintain resistance indefinitely. For diseases that can cause serious or fatal problems, resistance tends to last longer. Chickenpox is rarely a serious danger for children, but it can be life-threatening for adults. That’s why our bodies tend to remain resistant more or less indefinitely after a single infection or vaccination. It’s similar with other serious diseases such as measles or polio.
Because Covid is a very new virus, our immune systems aren’t entirely sure how to handle it. If it becomes endemic, which seems likely, our response may change over time. But that doesn’t really matter to you or me, since evolution happens over the course of generations. Our relatively very long life spans and limited number of offspring mean that human evolution moves very slowly. That being the case, annual Covid boosters may become the norm.
someone
“Quotes are always misattributed on the Internet” –Chairman Mao
I am on neither side, but I will point out that Joyce’s self-righteousness only bothers Becky when it’s not in agreement with her own. It’s not like self-righteous bullhockey is new to Joyce’s personality.
At least this is a growing pain rather than indoctrination.
I’ll get around to it okay. There’s a lot of art out there and I am very lazy.
Delicious Taffy
The more people advocate for Pratchett, the less inclined I am to read it, just out of recommendation-aversion.
Illithid
Ah, but you’re an outlier. Most people are swayed by peer opinion. Thus, Sir Pterry-advocacy on average ought to get more readers… until the field is so saturated with the persuaded that diminishing returns set in.
Although in this specific case, as a confirmed materialist atheist, I respond to his line about being unable to measure “justice” or whatever by saying that those are abstractions occurring in people’s brains, and as such can’t currently be measured, silly man. Good books, though.
Zach
The question is whether an abstraction is a lie.
Buli-Buli
I don’t think I’m parsing your response correctly. Are you saying “Justice” is in fact measurable, but that we just lack the ability at this time?
—
At any rate, it is actually shocking how different different cultures can be. Even involuntary physical phenomena can have different meanings. In Peru, a yawn indicates hunger.
Decidedly Orthogonal
A yawn for hunger is not confined to Peru or even H. Sapiens. Any given yawn has many possible causes including fatigue, boredom, and yes, hunger. The NewYorker has a great write up.
Psychie
My personal favorite is to oxygenate the brain, as it indicates you haven’t been breathing properly, or that there is something wrong with the air in your immediate environment. I actually don’t think I’ve ever yawned from boredom, but I did have a teacher who would get pissy with me whenever I yawned, because my yawns are loud, and she thought it was rude that I would yawn in her class, never mind the fact that it’s a totally involuntary action that I literally can’t control, and that there are a large number of reasons one might yawn other than boredom, but even if it *was* due to boredom it isn’t like I was doing it on purpose, so how can it possibly be rude, and if it is rude, what does she expect me to do about it since it’s totally involuntary!
Delicious Taffy
Oh, I’m well aware I’m an outlier in that regard. I could take a bus down to the librarby and probably find a plethora or Pratchett that I’d enjoy. But since I see the recommendations everywhere I go online, my reptoid brain takes it as others telling me what to like.
Pylgrim
You know what? You’re right. Pratchett’s books are awesome, but, you know… maybe not for you. 😉
Clif
I absolutely forbid you from ever reading Pratchett and if you should ever somehow find yourself reading it, I order you to avoid enjoying the experience at all costs.
wwwhhattt
You’d not like Pratchett, I heard he absolutely hated taffy
Needfuldoer
Fine, then. Don’t read great literary works. In fact, you never should!
(… Is the reverse psychology working?)
temporaryobsessor
Fair enough feeling like people are making you do something can make you not want to, even if its something you would enjoy.
Frankly I don’t know how much telling people they should read something compares advertising wise to telling someone not to read a book.
Schpoonman
I always bristle at people telling me I need or have to do something, because I’m pretty sure I only need to drink water, consume calories, and breathe a little to live. It’s part of why I’ve never watched The Godfather on my family’s recommendation because they’re all giant asses about it, acting like it’s almost a moral failing on my part that I haven’t seen it. The person who almost got me to try it didn’t implore I
watch it for vague arbitrary reasons, they said they thought the movie would appeal to my personal sensibilities, my actual tastes.
Don’t be shitty about what media someone has or has not consumed. No one’s tastes are universal, just because something clicked for you and 1998 friends does not mean the 2000th person in your group will like it, or that they’re even obligated to give it the time of day. And the four people IMMEDIATELY brazenly trying obvious reverse psychology is as bad and maybe even slightly worse. You’re all still dogpiling Taffy, only now it’s directly flying in his request to NOT dogpile him and the “cleverness” is just coming across as shitty and condescending. You’ve made your recommendation, now shut up and leave him alone.
Delicious Taffy
I appreciate the sentiment, but it’s alright in this particular case, since I sort of invited it by mentioning unprompted that I had an aversion when nobody particularly asked. You do make a valid point about media-taste dogpiles though, so your comment doesn’t go amiss conceptually, and it’s handy to have this kind of thing said from time to time.
Also, I use they/them pronouns, for the record. No big deal, just a gentle reminder.
Thag Simmons
I’ve seen enough of his writing to know that I’d like the books, I just haven’t gotten around to it.
Although… I’m pretty sure I have Hogfather lying around the house somewhere….
Delicious Taffy
Every time somebody mentions that particular book, I think they’re talking about The Pigman.
ktbear
Good decision Taffy, whatever you do do NOT read Terry Pratchett. Not under ANY circumstances.
Delicious Taffy
Nice try, but that sort of statement also makes me not wanna look into stuff, because it’s gained the connotation of “[X] is super #Problematic and you’ll just get upset reading it.”
Clif
Far from being problematic, it’s much much too good for you and you should avoid it because I said so.
Carms
Haha me too. Ppl started recommending me prattchett when I was like. 9. And J’REFUSE.
Until like. 5-6 years later, I finished my book one history class, and nicked a classmate’s without checking the cover and it was spectacularly good instantly and I had to go FIIIIIINE YALL WERE RIGHT.
Delicious Taffy
See, that’s another thing. When I finally do cave and check things out, I enjoy them more often than not.
BarerMender
Some Pratchett is really good, some really sucks.
khn0
with the years, I find it less and less good.
I used to reread all once or twice a year.
Haven’t open one since two years.
Reading his collected articles kind of killed it for me.
khn0
You may find better things to read.
Just_IDD
Fine, if you hate puns and love bad social commentary that misses the mark for broad segments of society, you should read Sir Terry Prattchett.
Just_IDD
And I still have blowjob cat…is the randomizer broken?
Needfuldoer
The random Gravatar algorithm probably just spit BJC out for you when your email was capitalized both ways.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Sir Terry’s hand is holding the dice.
Beau Kirin Maysey
perhaps the universe is telling you something… that you ARE Blowjob Cat…
Wereg
And why is that? I’ve never really understood recommendation-aversion and I’m hesitant to think it comes from just being a contrarian.
Hilen
(FEEL FREE TO NOT READ THIS STUPID NEVER-ENDING NIGHTMARE)
There is probably a biological/sociological reason for it that I don’t know of. Perhaps it’s a phenomenon like being left-handed, in that it is naturally occurring, although I would be more inclined to think it is simply a result of social interactions and behaviors.
In my case, for example, I am almost certain it has something to do with how I was constantly told by someone who I had to be, what I had to like, and so on. Having someone constantly drilling you about things as sinple as what programs you should like or not can be quite jarring for a personality like mine. So naturally, while I spent years unable to protest these attitudes myself out of simple cowardice, I developed a considerable aversion to recommendation- (along with an unhealthy level of paranoia, just to top it out). For years I learned that other’s suggestions were often vailed attempts at (and I use this word because I think it encompases a nunber of adecuate concepts on it’s own) correcting me- there was often a hidden meaning behind the comments said around or about me.
Therefore now, everytime someone tells me to “watch this, it’s awesome” or “read that, it’ll *change your life!*” my mind does the following questions: What does this person consider (qualifier)? Why are they suggesting this? What is the topic matter? What are they implying? What do they gain from this? Who gets a benefit from it? Do they know what I like?
And I’m sure I’m missing some, but you can get the idea. Sometimes I eventually manage to “answer” all the questions and actually follow the recomendation years later, sometimes I don’t. The more people talking about it makes me more weary and pops more questions, but in general the effect is the same. And it’s not like I don’t realize how detrimental it is in matters of content. For example, I was meaning to start reading Isaac Asimov’s work two years ago, and then one of my older brother’s started praising every book- now I haven’t come around to read even the first one, and I love robots and science fiction. I grab the book and go “ooooh!” and yet when I leave it it’s like, a constant repultion for me. It’s weird.
Anyway, my only way of resisting people influence used to be internally rejecting of their suggestions/comments (or being rude/horrible when I was feeling self-destructive in general) so some of those responses are still engraived in my head. Not that I can’t work them our with a professional.
(I don’t know if they were mocking Taffy or just “joking” with one another, but the thread higher up regarding “inverted psychology” or whatever that was is particularly jarring for me. They’re probably just fooling around, but to me it’s like a nightmare-read. Maybe it’s just the Internet’s fault, since I can only read what they write and I can’t read their behaviors. You asked clearly and honestly, and I tried to answer the same.)
Decidedly Orthogonal
That was well presented. Thank you for sharing. I occasionally experience recommendation aversion for pop culture items (Lost, Survivor being two that I dodged), but it’s not hard and fast. What I never did, was consider the overall drive behind it, because it never impacted anything important, like vaccination, or so I thought. I shall consider this more.
temporaryobsessor
Most people when recommending media just want a new person to talk about how great it is with or are tribalistically championing their favorite media.
My guess is recommendation aversion proberly comes from different places, not wanting people to think they can boss you around is part of it.
I could also see it being at least a little an instinct that came about because if everyone is hunting the forest will get over hunted and next year the people who know where all the good berry picking spots or fishing spots will have all the food
Delicious Taffy
This is very nicely written, and it hits a lot of the right points for my case as well. There’s definitely an element of not wanting other people to define what I can like or have to like, steeped in people forcibly defining every single aspect of my life since I was a kid. There’s also the element of, like temporaryobsessor mentions above, a tribalistic vibe where I’m the Other if I don’t follow the crowd.
To respond to Wereg in particular, it’s absolutely not contrarianism. That mindset used to control my life just as much as the people who took my personal choices away, because I was still letting them decide what the conversation was about in the first place. The urge still comes up sometimes, but not in cases like this.
Of course, what better way to spite a group of separate people who don’t know you or each other than depriving yourself of something really precious? Being a victim to hype backlash is such a weird thing to brag about.
Delicious Taffy
See, that’s the sort of language that makes me not wanna check things out. ? If I don’t read specifically Pratchett, I’m “depriving” myself to “spite” other people. If I mention it at all, I’m “bragging”. Sure, nobody asked for my input there, but you’re so off-base with your response here that we’re not even in the same ballpark. The jokey reverse-psychology replies at least seem lighthearted, but this comes off as needlessly aggressive and dismissive.
Spencer
Yeah that.
The Wellerman
Hey Spence, not that I don’t wanna derail this apparently invigorating Pratchet thread by too much, but what happened to that popcorn conversation we had down there?
Did it get inflamed somehow when I wasn’t looking? If so, I’m REALLY sorry if I had anything to do with it ??
Spencer
A commenter got his posts deleted since he’s a shitfucker, so everything nested under his posts is also gone.
The Wellerman
Last one I saw was “have fun” regarding that fanfiction comment I made, and a smiley emot. Was that actually an insult? I suck at reading “””social cues””” like this. ?
407 thoughts on “Intangible”
Ana Chronistic
someday Joyce will learn immeasurable assholishness is 100% real tho
Decidedly Orthogonal
Technically ‘infinite’ is still a measure. Although that isn’t particularly useful in proctological circles.
The Wellerman
” Not all that counts can be accounted for,
and not all that can be accounted for counts. ”
— Albert Einstein
C.T. Phipps
Several notable Jewish scientists were of the mind of the impersonal god was best measured via physics.
The Wellerman
Well, I know of none of them that accepted the uncertainty principle.
Even if any said impersonal god(s) existed, they WOULD play dice with the universe, and in fact would throw said dice where they couldn’t see them.
Jamie
Fun fact: a number of Jewish mystics were convinced that they had descended to the throne of God and measured, with precision, various lengths upon the body of God. Shoulder to shoulder, God is apparently ~56,035,000 miles wide. (Their unit of measure was the Persian “parasang”, which… we don’t have a very exact measure for, so the conversion I was given was 3.5 miles.) Your Google keyword of the day is “Shi’ur Qomah”.
marcus erronius
You buried the lede, there. In the same passage, they claim to know the name of God’s dangly bits.
BarerMender
Citation needed on that Einstein quote.
ktbear
Well spotted. It should in fact be attributed to William Bruce Cameron instead of Albert Einstein. The quote actually comes from Cameron’s 1963 text “Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking.”
The Wellerman
*looks up source of quote*
?
Live and learn, I guess.
eh, whatever
The pun only works in English; that makes it less likely that Einstein came up with it.
The Wellerman
Einstein learned to speak English when he came to the US, and even before then, no?
Not saying the conclusion is wrong though, just the additional evidence you tried to offer.
Decidedly Orthogonal
“Live and learn I guess.”
Ironically, painfully, illustrated to be false, with the number of covid survivors dying during their *second* round of the disease because they *still* didn’t get vaccinated.
Psychie
Speaking as someone who is vaccinated, I was under the impression that if one was already infected and survived then a vaccine was rendered unnecessary as you already had the antibodies. Like, I thought a vaccine worked because it injects you with a weakened/partially dead virus for your immune system to learn how to beat so it can fight the real virus later, so if it’s already fought off the real virus wouldn’t the vaccine be redundant? Genuinely asking, not trying to start a fight
Schpoonman
Many vaccines do use weakened or dead virules to prime the body’s immune system, but the mRNA vaccines that are all of the Covid vaccines don’t do that. They instead pull an IU/Asma, attach a picture of
BillieCovid-19 and instructions on how to fight it to the injected materials, and send it to the body which then disemminates the instructions through the body. The side effects with the vaccine currently, which mostly amount to very low grade versions of Covid symptoms like soreness and fever, are a vaccinated body running through its systems testing immune response. No diease actually makes the body heat into a fever, it’s an immune response that kills disease.Now with Covid, early tests showed that people who caught it and recovered had “better” antibodies than those who were vaccinated, but more recent testing has showed that vaccination provides longer-lasting protection and has protection against newer variants. If you somehow lucked your way through a Delta diagnosis without a shot (because vaccinated people overwhelmingly handle the disease well, or at least better than not getting the shot), Omicron gives zero shits whereas the shot (especially with a booster) will still provide protection.
Kalirren
Yes, that is the way it works, when it’s nice and neat and the virus doesn’t change too quickly. Previous infection works similarly to a vaccine and they partially substitute for one another. The problem with the common cold has always been that it changes too darn fast, so that by the time your body has “learned” how to beat ‘it’, a different strain is already beginning to make the neighborhood rounds. Some viruses evolve more quickly than others, which is why we need a different flu shot every year but chickenpox only once or twice in our lives.
That’s why the mRNA technology was so promising: it offered the possibility of quickly fabricating a vaccine against emerging variants, when previously it was just not worth it to make a dead-virus vaccine for a minor inconvenience, when it would only last a few months or one year tops before it failed to work quite as well, or at all, against the new prevalent strains.
COVID-19 changed the calculus. Its damage made it worth trying to make a vaccine anyway, even against the target that we knew was moving so fast. But as we can see, it’s still a hard problem.
thejeff
That’s not quite it with Covid – and some other diseases too. For some diseases immunity from either infection or vaccination is very long lasting or even permanent (think measles or chickenpox). Others, like the flu, change drastically so that exposure to this years doesn’t help much with next years.
Resistance to Covid though isn’t complete from the start with either vaccine or past infection and drops off significantly over 6 months or so, even if it’s the same variant. That’s why boosters were being recommended even before omicron came along.
Now – get your booster. If you’re not vaccinated yet, get started.
Wizard
There are actually a couple of issues with colds. First, “the cold” is a set of symptoms, not a specific virus. There are actually dozens of different viruses that can cause colds. Some of them also tend to mutate quickly, so no matter how many you develop resistance to, there’s always one more out there.
Secondly, there’s the length of resistance. In many cases, this varies with how dangerous the disease is. A cold may make you miserable for a few days, but it almost never kills anyone. Because there’s a certain biological cost to maintaining resistance, it’s more efficient to fight off “nuisance” infections repeatedly than to maintain resistance indefinitely. For diseases that can cause serious or fatal problems, resistance tends to last longer. Chickenpox is rarely a serious danger for children, but it can be life-threatening for adults. That’s why our bodies tend to remain resistant more or less indefinitely after a single infection or vaccination. It’s similar with other serious diseases such as measles or polio.
Because Covid is a very new virus, our immune systems aren’t entirely sure how to handle it. If it becomes endemic, which seems likely, our response may change over time. But that doesn’t really matter to you or me, since evolution happens over the course of generations. Our relatively very long life spans and limited number of offspring mean that human evolution moves very slowly. That being the case, annual Covid boosters may become the norm.
someone
“Quotes are always misattributed on the Internet” –Chairman Mao
Jess
Deep roots are not touched by the frost.
King Daniel
From the Asher a fire shall be woken
Decidedly Orthogonal
Something tells me Asher isn’t, nor will he become, particularly woke. Your optimism is admirable however.
thejeff
Let’s strike a match and find out.
I’m pretty sure he’ll wake up if we light him on fire.
Geneseepaws
If he were on fire would I P**s on him, to put him out?
I dunno little droogies shall we try it and see?
Keith Curtis
Probably not Einstein, but Professor of Sociology, William Bruce Cameron.
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/26/everything-counts-einstein/
Sirksome
It’s nice to see they’re both doing well.
Bryy
I was not expecting them to become antagonists of each other so quickly.
Deanatay
No worse enemy than an ex-friend.
Nova
I am on neither side, but I will point out that Joyce’s self-righteousness only bothers Becky when it’s not in agreement with her own. It’s not like self-righteous bullhockey is new to Joyce’s personality.
At least this is a growing pain rather than indoctrination.
Andrusi
Sometimes it takes having self-righteousness pointed at you to recognize it as such.
The Wellerman
+1
Meagan
That’s a good point. Becky is pretty full of herself.
Rabbit
This was my take on it too. She had no problem with it when it wasn’t directed at something she cared about.
Buli-Buli
Joyce needs to read some Terry Pratchett, I think.
Doctor_Who
Everyone does.
Thag Simmons
I’ll get around to it okay. There’s a lot of art out there and I am very lazy.
Delicious Taffy
The more people advocate for Pratchett, the less inclined I am to read it, just out of recommendation-aversion.
Illithid
Ah, but you’re an outlier. Most people are swayed by peer opinion. Thus, Sir Pterry-advocacy on average ought to get more readers… until the field is so saturated with the persuaded that diminishing returns set in.
Although in this specific case, as a confirmed materialist atheist, I respond to his line about being unable to measure “justice” or whatever by saying that those are abstractions occurring in people’s brains, and as such can’t currently be measured, silly man. Good books, though.
Zach
The question is whether an abstraction is a lie.
Buli-Buli
I don’t think I’m parsing your response correctly. Are you saying “Justice” is in fact measurable, but that we just lack the ability at this time?
—
At any rate, it is actually shocking how different different cultures can be. Even involuntary physical phenomena can have different meanings. In Peru, a yawn indicates hunger.
Decidedly Orthogonal
A yawn for hunger is not confined to Peru or even H. Sapiens. Any given yawn has many possible causes including fatigue, boredom, and yes, hunger. The NewYorker has a great write up.
Psychie
My personal favorite is to oxygenate the brain, as it indicates you haven’t been breathing properly, or that there is something wrong with the air in your immediate environment. I actually don’t think I’ve ever yawned from boredom, but I did have a teacher who would get pissy with me whenever I yawned, because my yawns are loud, and she thought it was rude that I would yawn in her class, never mind the fact that it’s a totally involuntary action that I literally can’t control, and that there are a large number of reasons one might yawn other than boredom, but even if it *was* due to boredom it isn’t like I was doing it on purpose, so how can it possibly be rude, and if it is rude, what does she expect me to do about it since it’s totally involuntary!
Delicious Taffy
Oh, I’m well aware I’m an outlier in that regard. I could take a bus down to the librarby and probably find a plethora or Pratchett that I’d enjoy. But since I see the recommendations everywhere I go online, my reptoid brain takes it as others telling me what to like.
Pylgrim
You know what? You’re right. Pratchett’s books are awesome, but, you know… maybe not for you. 😉
Clif
I absolutely forbid you from ever reading Pratchett and if you should ever somehow find yourself reading it, I order you to avoid enjoying the experience at all costs.
wwwhhattt
You’d not like Pratchett, I heard he absolutely hated taffy
Needfuldoer
Fine, then. Don’t read great literary works. In fact, you never should!
(… Is the reverse psychology working?)
temporaryobsessor
Fair enough feeling like people are making you do something can make you not want to, even if its something you would enjoy.
Frankly I don’t know how much telling people they should read something compares advertising wise to telling someone not to read a book.
Schpoonman
I always bristle at people telling me I need or have to do something, because I’m pretty sure I only need to drink water, consume calories, and breathe a little to live. It’s part of why I’ve never watched The Godfather on my family’s recommendation because they’re all giant asses about it, acting like it’s almost a moral failing on my part that I haven’t seen it. The person who almost got me to try it didn’t implore I
watch it for vague arbitrary reasons, they said they thought the movie would appeal to my personal sensibilities, my actual tastes.
Don’t be shitty about what media someone has or has not consumed. No one’s tastes are universal, just because something clicked for you and 1998 friends does not mean the 2000th person in your group will like it, or that they’re even obligated to give it the time of day. And the four people IMMEDIATELY brazenly trying obvious reverse psychology is as bad and maybe even slightly worse. You’re all still dogpiling Taffy, only now it’s directly flying in his request to NOT dogpile him and the “cleverness” is just coming across as shitty and condescending. You’ve made your recommendation, now shut up and leave him alone.
Delicious Taffy
I appreciate the sentiment, but it’s alright in this particular case, since I sort of invited it by mentioning unprompted that I had an aversion when nobody particularly asked. You do make a valid point about media-taste dogpiles though, so your comment doesn’t go amiss conceptually, and it’s handy to have this kind of thing said from time to time.
Also, I use they/them pronouns, for the record. No big deal, just a gentle reminder.
Thag Simmons
I’ve seen enough of his writing to know that I’d like the books, I just haven’t gotten around to it.
Although… I’m pretty sure I have Hogfather lying around the house somewhere….
Delicious Taffy
Every time somebody mentions that particular book, I think they’re talking about The Pigman.
ktbear
Good decision Taffy, whatever you do do NOT read Terry Pratchett. Not under ANY circumstances.
Delicious Taffy
Nice try, but that sort of statement also makes me not wanna look into stuff, because it’s gained the connotation of “[X] is super #Problematic and you’ll just get upset reading it.”
Clif
Far from being problematic, it’s much much too good for you and you should avoid it because I said so.
Carms
Haha me too. Ppl started recommending me prattchett when I was like. 9. And J’REFUSE.
Until like. 5-6 years later, I finished my book one history class, and nicked a classmate’s without checking the cover and it was spectacularly good instantly and I had to go FIIIIIINE YALL WERE RIGHT.
Delicious Taffy
See, that’s another thing. When I finally do cave and check things out, I enjoy them more often than not.
BarerMender
Some Pratchett is really good, some really sucks.
khn0
with the years, I find it less and less good.
I used to reread all once or twice a year.
Haven’t open one since two years.
Reading his collected articles kind of killed it for me.
khn0
You may find better things to read.
Just_IDD
Fine, if you hate puns and love bad social commentary that misses the mark for broad segments of society, you should read Sir Terry Prattchett.
Just_IDD
And I still have blowjob cat…is the randomizer broken?
Needfuldoer
The random Gravatar algorithm probably just spit BJC out for you when your email was capitalized both ways.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Sir Terry’s hand is holding the dice.
Beau Kirin Maysey
perhaps the universe is telling you something… that you ARE Blowjob Cat…
Wereg
And why is that? I’ve never really understood recommendation-aversion and I’m hesitant to think it comes from just being a contrarian.
Hilen
(FEEL FREE TO NOT READ THIS STUPID NEVER-ENDING NIGHTMARE)
There is probably a biological/sociological reason for it that I don’t know of. Perhaps it’s a phenomenon like being left-handed, in that it is naturally occurring, although I would be more inclined to think it is simply a result of social interactions and behaviors.
In my case, for example, I am almost certain it has something to do with how I was constantly told by someone who I had to be, what I had to like, and so on. Having someone constantly drilling you about things as sinple as what programs you should like or not can be quite jarring for a personality like mine. So naturally, while I spent years unable to protest these attitudes myself out of simple cowardice, I developed a considerable aversion to recommendation- (along with an unhealthy level of paranoia, just to top it out). For years I learned that other’s suggestions were often vailed attempts at (and I use this word because I think it encompases a nunber of adecuate concepts on it’s own) correcting me- there was often a hidden meaning behind the comments said around or about me.
Therefore now, everytime someone tells me to “watch this, it’s awesome” or “read that, it’ll *change your life!*” my mind does the following questions: What does this person consider (qualifier)? Why are they suggesting this? What is the topic matter? What are they implying? What do they gain from this? Who gets a benefit from it? Do they know what I like?
And I’m sure I’m missing some, but you can get the idea. Sometimes I eventually manage to “answer” all the questions and actually follow the recomendation years later, sometimes I don’t. The more people talking about it makes me more weary and pops more questions, but in general the effect is the same. And it’s not like I don’t realize how detrimental it is in matters of content. For example, I was meaning to start reading Isaac Asimov’s work two years ago, and then one of my older brother’s started praising every book- now I haven’t come around to read even the first one, and I love robots and science fiction. I grab the book and go “ooooh!” and yet when I leave it it’s like, a constant repultion for me. It’s weird.
Anyway, my only way of resisting people influence used to be internally rejecting of their suggestions/comments (or being rude/horrible when I was feeling self-destructive in general) so some of those responses are still engraived in my head. Not that I can’t work them our with a professional.
(I don’t know if they were mocking Taffy or just “joking” with one another, but the thread higher up regarding “inverted psychology” or whatever that was is particularly jarring for me. They’re probably just fooling around, but to me it’s like a nightmare-read. Maybe it’s just the Internet’s fault, since I can only read what they write and I can’t read their behaviors. You asked clearly and honestly, and I tried to answer the same.)
Decidedly Orthogonal
That was well presented. Thank you for sharing. I occasionally experience recommendation aversion for pop culture items (Lost, Survivor being two that I dodged), but it’s not hard and fast. What I never did, was consider the overall drive behind it, because it never impacted anything important, like vaccination, or so I thought. I shall consider this more.
temporaryobsessor
Most people when recommending media just want a new person to talk about how great it is with or are tribalistically championing their favorite media.
My guess is recommendation aversion proberly comes from different places, not wanting people to think they can boss you around is part of it.
I could also see it being at least a little an instinct that came about because if everyone is hunting the forest will get over hunted and next year the people who know where all the good berry picking spots or fishing spots will have all the food
Delicious Taffy
This is very nicely written, and it hits a lot of the right points for my case as well. There’s definitely an element of not wanting other people to define what I can like or have to like, steeped in people forcibly defining every single aspect of my life since I was a kid. There’s also the element of, like temporaryobsessor mentions above, a tribalistic vibe where I’m the Other if I don’t follow the crowd.
To respond to Wereg in particular, it’s absolutely not contrarianism. That mindset used to control my life just as much as the people who took my personal choices away, because I was still letting them decide what the conversation was about in the first place. The urge still comes up sometimes, but not in cases like this.
Amelie Wikström
Of course, what better way to spite a group of separate people who don’t know you or each other than depriving yourself of something really precious? Being a victim to hype backlash is such a weird thing to brag about.
Delicious Taffy
See, that’s the sort of language that makes me not wanna check things out. ? If I don’t read specifically Pratchett, I’m “depriving” myself to “spite” other people. If I mention it at all, I’m “bragging”. Sure, nobody asked for my input there, but you’re so off-base with your response here that we’re not even in the same ballpark. The jokey reverse-psychology replies at least seem lighthearted, but this comes off as needlessly aggressive and dismissive.
Spencer
Yeah that.
The Wellerman
Hey Spence, not that I don’t wanna derail this apparently invigorating Pratchet thread by too much, but what happened to that popcorn conversation we had down there?
Did it get inflamed somehow when I wasn’t looking? If so, I’m REALLY sorry if I had anything to do with it ??
Spencer
A commenter got his posts deleted since he’s a shitfucker, so everything nested under his posts is also gone.
The Wellerman
Last one I saw was “have fun” regarding that fanfiction comment I made, and a smiley emot. Was that actually an insult? I suck at reading “””social cues””” like this. ?