OK, am I the only one around here who gets REALLY pissed off when seeing stuff on YouTube and other platforms going stuff like “mildy artistic” like that and you know what they ACTUALLY mean by that?!?!?!
I’m unfamiliar with this phenomenon. Can you explain it more?
Kyrik Michalowski
In an episode of South Park, Cartman’s mom takes a vaccine shot. Then Cartman is told his mom is “artistic” as a parody of vaccines causing autism. You need to see more of the episode for context.
“mildly artistic” is a variant on that, just as usual the internet and the media taking a word and running with it, and all the consequences. From cash grabbing YouTubers who want their thumbnail to get clicks, to people who want an excuse for being an asshole and weaponize self-affirmations.
Laura
My old friend/roommate once introduced himself as “high functioning autistic.” I asked him what that meant, and he answered: “High functioning is what parents call their own children. Low functioning is what parents call other people’s children.”
Laura
I don’t know those specific cultural references, so I could be wrong. But I don’t think there’s any harm in calling oneself “mildly” anything. Folks can choose the labels they want to call themselves.
…Maybe I’m reading it wrong?
I’ve heard this all while my kids grew up, so no you’re reading it right.
ischemgeek
High functioning is what they call you if they want an excuse to invalidate your opinion or deny accommodation on the grounds they think you’re not disabled enough to count.
Low functioning is what they call you if they want to treat you like a thing and ignore what you think about it on the grounds you’re too disabled to count.
Gwyn
Claiming to have a medical condition you don’t is harmful to the people who do have it because it can create a perception that it’s not a “real” thing, making it harder for people who do have the condition to get appropriate support and recognition.
Laura
Ok, that makes sense! Thank you, all 3 of you!
ktbear
“…to people who want an excuse for being an asshole and weaponize self-affirmations.” People actually need an excuse to do that??
Masumi
Actually –
Autistic people have a somewhat higher probability to become scientists.
Therefore, autism causes vaccines.
Another incredibly long running webcomic where I’ve read every comic twice, to the point where I frequently think “wasn’t there an SMBC about this?” and yeah, usually there was.
See, see, this is EXACTLY why i worked so fucking hard to distance myself from the “autism” label, all the stereotypes all these ASSUMPTIONS, all the PITY, all the TOXICITY.
It was like tearing my fucking arm off. At the moment I’m working on a way I can describe myself, a way to untangle myself and my personality, the way I am, while still acknowledging my neurodivergence and things I have to do in a way that just avoids the label and all this BAGGAGE and PAIN and HURT, it feels like I’m hanging above a fucking emotional PRECIPICE,
IT’S AWFUL ??????? I FEEL SO ALONE!!!!
not someone else
It feels like you might want to stay out of the comments section for a while?
Deathjavu
Well, I hope we can convince you that you’re not.
If it makes anyone feel any better, the dipshit that originally wrote the “vaccines cause autism” research paper not only retracted it, but lost his medical license. Yet much like scientology, the damage was already done even if the original author disavowed it.
Laura
NG, BTW, that “Machinarium” soundtrack you recommended to me is BLOWING my FLYING MIND.
sorry about that outburst, really sorry if I caused any of you any stress
but I just really needed that cathartic release
Deathjavu, thank you for your attempt to assure me I am not alone, regardless of how effective it is.
It’s just that, what if I do identify as “autistic”?
I know it might be healthy for me to do that HERE, but like…..
What about out there in the world out there where I CAN’T, the world where the “autism” label is like a giant “abuse me” sign, the world that I’ll HAVE to interact with and get my name out there for all the stuff I want to do in life?
(BTW thank you too Laura, that song makes me tear up every time I listen, SO BEAUTIFUL ?)
Stifyn Baker
You are not alone. I know that sounds incredibly glib (and possibly a bit crass), for which I apologise; i am trying to affirm, not patronise. But look where you are: the people regularly contributing to this chat have done their best to turn it into a very safe space. I like hanging out here for that reason. I am neurotypical, but I am a parent to a neurodivergent child and I work with neurodivergent children, so I am as close as a neurotypical person can be to understanding you; I am also LGBTQ+, so I definitely understand ‘different’ and ‘isolated’. But if we support each other, then the ‘typical’ world can go f##k itself.
Even now, with accepting communities like this to help us, outside in the rest of the world, I learned the hard way that it’s REALLY good advice not to tie yourself to the “autism” image.
Between employers, “normies” out there, people who you have to interact with to do what you want in life, they don’t think twice when they hear you say “I am autistic”. If they’ve seen ONE “autistic” like that, they think ALL are like that.
Not out of malice or deliberate bigotry every time, but like, because HUMANS and their monkey ass brains don’t really strive towards TRUTH as much as they strive towards internal CONSISTENCY of their beliefs, their thoughts, their emotions, including those involving ANY group they’ve come to believe about them, hence unconscious biases, of which PITY and TOXIC POSITIVITY and INITIALIZATION of us neurodivergents is especially insidious.
It’s like… if I EVER want to be myself and content and happy with who I am and at the same time rationally and successfully navigate an unjust and indifferent world with a broken, unstable system….
that I have to be like, two different people, walking in two different worlds: one where I can embrace being “autistic”, and one where I can’t
like I have to live two different lives, and bend and break my brain just to barely make things work out for me in an unjust, indifferent universe
oh well, a typo isn’t the worse thing that’s ever happened to me, I guess
Hazel
Have you tried journaling? It’s a way to vent that definitely will not cause anyone stress, so that you can save less inflammatory communication for the comments.
I know you mentioned the possibility of causing people stress, so you must care about it, and maybe you haven’t considered keeping a journal yet. I’d give it a shot, could make you feel better in general, though of course it will not cure the wounds of society’s ableism.
I’ve tried journaling, didn’t really work, also couldn’t make a commitment because GUESS WHAT, that’s part of my divergence too.
You humans will often see that difficulty as part of the stripes you put into the “ADHD” category, correct?
But what if some don’t feel comfy with that label? What if they have trauma associated with that? What if they just feel like they’re MORE than that, and want their individuality, their uniqueness, to be noticed in spite of other HUMANS and their SMOL BRAINS mostly paying attention to a single acronym or word for people they were brought up to pity? What then?
If they don’t accept the label, they don’t get help or attention. If they do accept it, they’re stigmatized. It’s like you lose no matter what you do.
And this unfairness is by no means exclusive to neurodivergence,
Frankly I am sick and tired of you humans and your tendency to punish, torment and tease members of your own species for the random, uncontrollable circumstances of their birth.
eh, whatever
If it makes anyone feel any better, the dipshit that originally wrote the “vaccines cause autism” research paper not only retracted it, but lost his medical license. Yet much like scientology, the damage was already done even if the original author disavowed it.
I saw yesterday just how diverse “autism” can be, just how different you all can be, how it’s just common sense around here not to make assumptions about people with autism.
We take a person from here who uses the word “autism” to describe who they are. We see another person from reddit who uses it in “autism screech”. These two people might be using the same *English* word, but they might as well be speaking two different languages. One is the language of asserting equal freedoms, and one is the language that gives license to oppress others on account of the uncontrollable circumstances of birth. In one language, “autistics” are more or less the same, and in the other, they are allowed to be very much different.
A person from Santa Cruz, California, and another from Harrison, Arkansas, both use the word “freedom”. It’s the same word, but different languages, really. One is the language that seeks to liberate, and one is a language that seeks to oppress.
I can only hope you see the essential principle there, because i have not the spoons to expand upon it, really.
I like things to be fluid. It’s why I’m genderfluid, I get the best of all genders, and new genders that don’t even have names yet.
If “autism” around here can be fluid, if it can be a disability or a superpower or lots of other things depending on what I feel like on any day and people MUST automatically respect it, then here and ONLY here do I feel comphy calling myself “autistic”.
But even then, if I do accept being “autistic”, I have to face an awful reality that comes with it — that I was hurt in really AWFUL ways by others because of it, I’m a victim of systematic bigotry.
I had so much, my childhood, my pride, so many things taken because of it, things that I may never be able to replace.
It’s left me feeling so scarred, so nervous, so broken ?
My experiences are ones that matter, yes, but like, I just don’t want it to make me into someone all bitter and anti-fun, you know?
I find myself caught in a struggle, a struggle between who I WANT to be, and the kinds of things my trauma forces me to be. It’s like I have to combine my bubbliness and bitterness into one, and every time I try to bend and break my brain to make it work it inevitably results in a person with conflicting attributes.
I just feel so alone….. ??????
Inahc
*hugs*
“Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.”
To borrow a queer term: It’s ok to stay in the closet in places it’s not safe to be out. that’s what it’s *for* 🙂
I have plenty of both bubbles and bitterness myself, too. These days, they get along fairly well.
Ray
Ad another episode has Cartman stuffing cheeseburgers down the back of his pants because he has “Ass-burgers”
I remember being told once regarding big reveals (specifically coming out of the closet, in that case) that the polite thing to do is to take your cue from the person making the reveal with regards to how dramatic the tone should be? So if they’re teary eyed and delivering big declarations you should respond in kind with big teary declarations of reassurance and support, and if they’re like “oh by the way I’m gay” without taking their eyes off Mario Kart you should be like “ok cool” and also keep your eyes on Mario Kart. I don’t know if that’s always the right call or always possible, but I can see the logic.
Right now there’s some dissonance for Joyce due to the fact that they aren’t meeting her on her level, I think? Joyce feels like her entire world got turned upside down and she has to reevaluate everything she thought she knew about who she is as a person. And Dorothy and Sarah are NOT REACTING WITH EQUIVALENT LEVELS OF SHOOK.
Gwyn
I love this advice
Needfuldoer
We saw this happen before, when Sarah first saw Joyce in her glasses. She needs some “my-level-of-freaking-out-is-justified” assurance, stat.
I think both Sarah and Dorothy are trying to be supportive, but missing the mark. Joyce doesn’t need to be told she’s always been herself, or that they could have guessed. She probably needs them to actually talk to her and help her process her feelings (not necessarily right in this moment, but saying ‘yeah we guessed that don’t worry about it’ isn’t enough), especially given how many/most of her friends aren’t acknowledging ways she HAS changed.
Very true. So many people associate autism with disability. With some reason — many people who have autism or other neurodevelopmental spectrum conditions *do* have disabilities that can sometimes make it more difficult to achieve their goals, without arranging for particular community support.
(I say that and it sounds completely hypocritical, because honestly, who among us could have done half the things we do with our lives without SOME kind of support in this world? It’s like that 2012 speech: “You didn’t build that!” We’re an interdependent species and everything we do affects others.)
But anyway, Joyce hears “autism” and thinks “disability”. And that’s not the way she wants to see herself. It’s not how she envisions her future.
Laura
What I mean is, when she thinks of disability, she thinks of limitations.
She doesn’t think of how exploring this side of her might free her to unlock her particular superpowers.
Yeah Laura, I hate this. I can never identify as “autistic” out there because of the thing people would think of me, the assumptions they would make whether they intend to or not.
I don’t wanna go through all that effort fixing things in their thinking because let’s face facts – the way humans think in general, for SO MANY THINGS including neurodivergence, is just intrinsically flawed.
I’m afraid that the progress we can make in our society is very much chained down by processes that are just hardwired into Homo sapien brains.
And oh well. I guess a life form produced by 4.5 billion years worth of happy accidents can only do so much right.
*SIGH*
Laura
Do you like dogs, NG? Their brains are delightfully unique. But no less brilliant than humans. Dogs are more brilliant, even, because they can sense and distinguish thousands of smells, read the full recent past of any location, with a single sniff. They can even diagnose COVID-19 before the best chemical tests can. They are tremendously talented. They are playful, creative, problem-solving, ingenious, affectionate, goofy, hyperactive, hyperfocused, distractible… every stripe of human brain/personality, you can find a dog who makes it huge and colorful.
But like, I’m really dizzy and in a spiral right now.
Just overwhelmed by all this…. this world…. history stained by the suffering of the innocent… the awfulness… all this injustice…. all this suffering….
HOW DO YOU HUMANS LIVE LIKE THIS?!?!?!
??????
Laura
OK, yeah, I get that.
Maybe take a break from this for a while. If you’re in a place where you can step outside and touch the ground or breathe in the air deeply with your nose, that helps. Or running your hands under a faucet.
Or what soothes you. Maybe a game or some music, or a coding project you’re working on. (I find Foucault’s georotational pendulum incredibly soothing, but that’s just me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d71acFIh0g0)
You know how to care for yourself — I’m not able to play Mr. Fix-It and it’s often unhelpful when I try.
I hope your spiral can find its internal gyroscope soon. We all need to find our center of stable spin, sometimes.
So, yes, I understand exactly what you mean and appreciate that neither you or any one owes anyone else insight into your/their diagnosis/disability/neurotype.
It’s something I’ve been thinking about A LOT bc at uni I’m studying social work and find the way Autism is taught about is not good, and the mental health classes have actually disencouraged me…. My response has been to put on battle armour and go to war against the school, researching the experience of ND students and writing evidence-heavy essay on the subject to advocate for a neurodiversity affirming approach to be used by the school.
I believe that progress isn’t chained by the way we think (although I may be misinterpretting this part of your comment, wellerman, so apologies if so), but it is chained by our social systems (schools/unis/healthcare/govt/family). There’s tonnes of people in the disability movement fighting to make changes (in my country, this includes creating housing opportunities for young disabled people who have been put into aged care homes, more support in schools, NDIS etc). I draw hope from that*.
Also, Autism [can be] a disability. It is for me, but I use the perspective of the social model of disability. The world isn’t made with people like me in mind, and that is what is disabling. If the pharmacy is over-stimulating with bright, flashing lights and seventeen billion tvs going at the same time, then I am disabled because I cannot fill my scripts, or if I do I won’t be functional for three days while I recover. I wouldn’t be disabled if there was an option for me to access my medication without sending me into a three day long shutdown+ recovery time.
*there is so much more I want to say because I’m very passionate about the subject, hence inserting myself, but I started to tangent about how industrialisation contributed to disabling neurodivergency eg sleep-wake cycles and realised it was off topic
Laura
Oh, wow. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing that!
People ask why autism diagnosis rates are rising — maybe because society is growing less hospitable for different ways of perceiving and learning and interacting with the world.
thejeff
Maybe, but I’m not sure I buy it. It’s not like a lot of behavior didn’t get hostile responses in the past without having a medical diagnosis attached to it.
V.gay.person
There’s a bunch of factors that contribute to rising rates of diagnosis:
– changes to the diagnostic criteria (the current diagnosis is Autistic Spectrum Disorder which covers many out dated diagnoses like Asperger’s)
– increased understanding and research into gender and (to a lesser extent) racial differences in how Autism is embodied leading to more women and non white people have more equitable access an accurate diagnosis
– increasing awareness via health campaigns, internet access and social media, so people are seeing more autistic individuals which leads them to recognise traits in themselves or in their children and are able to access info online
– environmental factors which lead to burnout (and support seeking) as well as things like air and water pollution which has some evidence as a contributing factor (although I’m suss on the link)
Then again the author of Ghost In The Shell used placing the brain in “Autistic Mode” as a problem solving method, several times during the series Stand Alone Complex. Apparently autism is seen as an asset in Japan when the manga was being written and kept for the anime.
Taffy
The word “Autistic” basically just means “of itself”. In that anime, it’s just basically Airplane Mode with a more intelligent-sounding name. Nothing to do with the actual human condition.
I read their reactions less as “We already knew” and more as “Yeah, that tracks.”
And, honestly, I think “You’re still you, no matter what the doctors say” is exactly what Joyce – who tends to hyperfixate and overreact – needs to hear.
I’ve never lived this exact experience before so I admit that I may be speaking out of turn. However, in the face of information that I perceive as earth-shattering to my self-identity, my friends reacting to it completely in-character and not being weird about it in the slightest would be the most comforting thing in the world.
Sarah going “Yep, tracks” and Dorothy offering casual support and reassurance is exactly how they’d react to any old information, to the point where if they reacted differently I’d be questioning their motive.
Personally I feel Like most of us are undiagnosed for something, half of us don’t get diagnosed till adulthood and some of us probably go through our entire lives not being diagnosed.
Naaaaah, I doubt much of anybody has actually considered it. But I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them had reactions like Sarah’s, where it makes so much sense once it’s come up that they’ll probably later wonder how they never realized it.
I can say with certainty that people don’t always know.
I went over 30 years not diagnosed and even after my psychiatrist and psychologist pinged me – I was only coded as autistic for almost 10 years because of bad laws in place for organ transplants.
I told my family, and people I knew and some said “ok now that you explained it, I can see that” but ROFL so many were SHOCKED.
It hasn’t affected my everyday life, but it has affected how my therapy is and how I interact with stimuli and people. I’m also more vocal about what is causing me to over stimulate. <<–that took a long time though.
268 thoughts on “Told”
Ana Chronistic
“If it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it doesn’t change how we feel about you, Joyce”
“buh?”
“er, I mean, about the duck”
Ana Chronistic
alt: “ARTistic”
…
“doc says I’m probably ARTISTIC YEAH”
The Wellerman
OK, am I the only one around here who gets REALLY pissed off when seeing stuff on YouTube and other platforms going stuff like “mildy artistic” like that and you know what they ACTUALLY mean by that?!?!?!
Mr D
yes
Nathan
I’m unfamiliar with this phenomenon. Can you explain it more?
Kyrik Michalowski
In an episode of South Park, Cartman’s mom takes a vaccine shot. Then Cartman is told his mom is “artistic” as a parody of vaccines causing autism. You need to see more of the episode for context.
The Wellerman
Also in Family Guy, God is “mildly autistic”. ?
“mildly artistic” is a variant on that, just as usual the internet and the media taking a word and running with it, and all the consequences. From cash grabbing YouTubers who want their thumbnail to get clicks, to people who want an excuse for being an asshole and weaponize self-affirmations.
Laura
My old friend/roommate once introduced himself as “high functioning autistic.” I asked him what that meant, and he answered: “High functioning is what parents call their own children. Low functioning is what parents call other people’s children.”
Laura
I don’t know those specific cultural references, so I could be wrong. But I don’t think there’s any harm in calling oneself “mildly” anything. Folks can choose the labels they want to call themselves.
…Maybe I’m reading it wrong?
Opus the Poet
I’ve heard this all while my kids grew up, so no you’re reading it right.
ischemgeek
High functioning is what they call you if they want an excuse to invalidate your opinion or deny accommodation on the grounds they think you’re not disabled enough to count.
Low functioning is what they call you if they want to treat you like a thing and ignore what you think about it on the grounds you’re too disabled to count.
Gwyn
Claiming to have a medical condition you don’t is harmful to the people who do have it because it can create a perception that it’s not a “real” thing, making it harder for people who do have the condition to get appropriate support and recognition.
Laura
Ok, that makes sense! Thank you, all 3 of you!
ktbear
“…to people who want an excuse for being an asshole and weaponize self-affirmations.” People actually need an excuse to do that??
Masumi
Actually –
Autistic people have a somewhat higher probability to become scientists.
Therefore, autism causes vaccines.
(credit to SMBC for this one, I think?)
Deathjavu
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/autism-and-vaccines
Another incredibly long running webcomic where I’ve read every comic twice, to the point where I frequently think “wasn’t there an SMBC about this?” and yeah, usually there was.
The Wellerman
See, see, this is EXACTLY why i worked so fucking hard to distance myself from the “autism” label, all the stereotypes all these ASSUMPTIONS, all the PITY, all the TOXICITY.
It was like tearing my fucking arm off. At the moment I’m working on a way I can describe myself, a way to untangle myself and my personality, the way I am, while still acknowledging my neurodivergence and things I have to do in a way that just avoids the label and all this BAGGAGE and PAIN and HURT, it feels like I’m hanging above a fucking emotional PRECIPICE,
IT’S AWFUL ??????? I FEEL SO ALONE!!!!
not someone else
It feels like you might want to stay out of the comments section for a while?
Deathjavu
Well, I hope we can convince you that you’re not.
If it makes anyone feel any better, the dipshit that originally wrote the “vaccines cause autism” research paper not only retracted it, but lost his medical license. Yet much like scientology, the damage was already done even if the original author disavowed it.
Laura
NG, BTW, that “Machinarium” soundtrack you recommended to me is BLOWING my FLYING MIND.
The Wellerman
sorry about that outburst, really sorry if I caused any of you any stress
but I just really needed that cathartic release
Deathjavu, thank you for your attempt to assure me I am not alone, regardless of how effective it is.
It’s just that, what if I do identify as “autistic”?
I know it might be healthy for me to do that HERE, but like…..
What about out there in the world out there where I CAN’T, the world where the “autism” label is like a giant “abuse me” sign, the world that I’ll HAVE to interact with and get my name out there for all the stuff I want to do in life?
(this comment is a two-parter, sorry, stay tuned)
The Wellerman
(BTW thank you too Laura, that song makes me tear up every time I listen, SO BEAUTIFUL ?)
Stifyn Baker
You are not alone. I know that sounds incredibly glib (and possibly a bit crass), for which I apologise; i am trying to affirm, not patronise. But look where you are: the people regularly contributing to this chat have done their best to turn it into a very safe space. I like hanging out here for that reason. I am neurotypical, but I am a parent to a neurodivergent child and I work with neurodivergent children, so I am as close as a neurotypical person can be to understanding you; I am also LGBTQ+, so I definitely understand ‘different’ and ‘isolated’. But if we support each other, then the ‘typical’ world can go f##k itself.
The Wellerman
Even now, with accepting communities like this to help us, outside in the rest of the world, I learned the hard way that it’s REALLY good advice not to tie yourself to the “autism” image.
Between employers, “normies” out there, people who you have to interact with to do what you want in life, they don’t think twice when they hear you say “I am autistic”. If they’ve seen ONE “autistic” like that, they think ALL are like that.
Not out of malice or deliberate bigotry every time, but like, because HUMANS and their monkey ass brains don’t really strive towards TRUTH as much as they strive towards internal CONSISTENCY of their beliefs, their thoughts, their emotions, including those involving ANY group they’ve come to believe about them, hence unconscious biases, of which PITY and TOXIC POSITIVITY and INITIALIZATION of us neurodivergents is especially insidious.
It’s like… if I EVER want to be myself and content and happy with who I am and at the same time rationally and successfully navigate an unjust and indifferent world with a broken, unstable system….
that I have to be like, two different people, walking in two different worlds: one where I can embrace being “autistic”, and one where I can’t
like I have to live two different lives, and bend and break my brain just to barely make things work out for me in an unjust, indifferent universe
The Wellerman
*INFANTILIZATION
oh well, a typo isn’t the worse thing that’s ever happened to me, I guess
Hazel
Have you tried journaling? It’s a way to vent that definitely will not cause anyone stress, so that you can save less inflammatory communication for the comments.
I know you mentioned the possibility of causing people stress, so you must care about it, and maybe you haven’t considered keeping a journal yet. I’d give it a shot, could make you feel better in general, though of course it will not cure the wounds of society’s ableism.
The Wellerman
I’ve tried journaling, didn’t really work, also couldn’t make a commitment because GUESS WHAT, that’s part of my divergence too.
You humans will often see that difficulty as part of the stripes you put into the “ADHD” category, correct?
But what if some don’t feel comfy with that label? What if they have trauma associated with that? What if they just feel like they’re MORE than that, and want their individuality, their uniqueness, to be noticed in spite of other HUMANS and their SMOL BRAINS mostly paying attention to a single acronym or word for people they were brought up to pity? What then?
If they don’t accept the label, they don’t get help or attention. If they do accept it, they’re stigmatized. It’s like you lose no matter what you do.
And this unfairness is by no means exclusive to neurodivergence,
Frankly I am sick and tired of you humans and your tendency to punish, torment and tease members of your own species for the random, uncontrollable circumstances of their birth.
eh, whatever
Oh, he didn’t retract it. The journal did.
The Wellerman
I saw yesterday just how diverse “autism” can be, just how different you all can be, how it’s just common sense around here not to make assumptions about people with autism.
We take a person from here who uses the word “autism” to describe who they are. We see another person from reddit who uses it in “autism screech”. These two people might be using the same *English* word, but they might as well be speaking two different languages. One is the language of asserting equal freedoms, and one is the language that gives license to oppress others on account of the uncontrollable circumstances of birth. In one language, “autistics” are more or less the same, and in the other, they are allowed to be very much different.
A person from Santa Cruz, California, and another from Harrison, Arkansas, both use the word “freedom”. It’s the same word, but different languages, really. One is the language that seeks to liberate, and one is a language that seeks to oppress.
I can only hope you see the essential principle there, because i have not the spoons to expand upon it, really.
I like things to be fluid. It’s why I’m genderfluid, I get the best of all genders, and new genders that don’t even have names yet.
If “autism” around here can be fluid, if it can be a disability or a superpower or lots of other things depending on what I feel like on any day and people MUST automatically respect it, then here and ONLY here do I feel comphy calling myself “autistic”.
But even then, if I do accept being “autistic”, I have to face an awful reality that comes with it — that I was hurt in really AWFUL ways by others because of it, I’m a victim of systematic bigotry.
I had so much, my childhood, my pride, so many things taken because of it, things that I may never be able to replace.
It’s left me feeling so scarred, so nervous, so broken ?
My experiences are ones that matter, yes, but like, I just don’t want it to make me into someone all bitter and anti-fun, you know?
I find myself caught in a struggle, a struggle between who I WANT to be, and the kinds of things my trauma forces me to be. It’s like I have to combine my bubbliness and bitterness into one, and every time I try to bend and break my brain to make it work it inevitably results in a person with conflicting attributes.
I just feel so alone….. ??????
Inahc
*hugs*
“Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.”
To borrow a queer term: It’s ok to stay in the closet in places it’s not safe to be out. that’s what it’s *for* 🙂
I have plenty of both bubbles and bitterness myself, too. These days, they get along fairly well.
Ray
Ad another episode has Cartman stuffing cheeseburgers down the back of his pants because he has “Ass-burgers”
The Wellerman
Oh Joyce ????
She’s just trying so hard to mask her anxiety, that spiral of emotions, that PANIC just SCRAPING AT THE DOOR, I can tell!!!!!
????
Whatever she eventually chooses to do with her referral, I REALLY REALLY hope her friends respect her wishes.
????
HANG IN THERE FAM FAM!!!!! ?
*plays “Cross the Stormy Sea” from Pokemon Movie Music CD*
Sirksome
I can’t decide if this is Sarah being supportive or not.
Thag Simmons
I think this is as close to supportive as Sarah gets
Ophidiophile
If Sarah doesn’t growl at you and tell you to go away, she’s being supportive.
Ed Callahan
If Sarah does growl at you and tells you to go away, she’s being incredibly caring.
alongcameaspider
It strikes me as casual acceptance, she’s not gonna make a big deal about it even if Joyce wants someone to
Nelly Dreadful
I remember being told once regarding big reveals (specifically coming out of the closet, in that case) that the polite thing to do is to take your cue from the person making the reveal with regards to how dramatic the tone should be? So if they’re teary eyed and delivering big declarations you should respond in kind with big teary declarations of reassurance and support, and if they’re like “oh by the way I’m gay” without taking their eyes off Mario Kart you should be like “ok cool” and also keep your eyes on Mario Kart. I don’t know if that’s always the right call or always possible, but I can see the logic.
Right now there’s some dissonance for Joyce due to the fact that they aren’t meeting her on her level, I think? Joyce feels like her entire world got turned upside down and she has to reevaluate everything she thought she knew about who she is as a person. And Dorothy and Sarah are NOT REACTING WITH EQUIVALENT LEVELS OF SHOOK.
Gwyn
I love this advice
Needfuldoer
We saw this happen before, when Sarah first saw Joyce in her glasses. She needs some “my-level-of-freaking-out-is-justified” assurance, stat.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/02-look-straight-ahead/joycelifeevents/
Axel
I think both Sarah and Dorothy are trying to be supportive, but missing the mark. Joyce doesn’t need to be told she’s always been herself, or that they could have guessed. She probably needs them to actually talk to her and help her process her feelings (not necessarily right in this moment, but saying ‘yeah we guessed that don’t worry about it’ isn’t enough), especially given how many/most of her friends aren’t acknowledging ways she HAS changed.
Laura
Very true. So many people associate autism with disability. With some reason — many people who have autism or other neurodevelopmental spectrum conditions *do* have disabilities that can sometimes make it more difficult to achieve their goals, without arranging for particular community support.
(I say that and it sounds completely hypocritical, because honestly, who among us could have done half the things we do with our lives without SOME kind of support in this world? It’s like that 2012 speech: “You didn’t build that!” We’re an interdependent species and everything we do affects others.)
But anyway, Joyce hears “autism” and thinks “disability”. And that’s not the way she wants to see herself. It’s not how she envisions her future.
Laura
What I mean is, when she thinks of disability, she thinks of limitations.
She doesn’t think of how exploring this side of her might free her to unlock her particular superpowers.
The Wellerman
Yeah Laura, I hate this. I can never identify as “autistic” out there because of the thing people would think of me, the assumptions they would make whether they intend to or not.
I don’t wanna go through all that effort fixing things in their thinking because let’s face facts – the way humans think in general, for SO MANY THINGS including neurodivergence, is just intrinsically flawed.
I’m afraid that the progress we can make in our society is very much chained down by processes that are just hardwired into Homo sapien brains.
And oh well. I guess a life form produced by 4.5 billion years worth of happy accidents can only do so much right.
*SIGH*
Laura
Do you like dogs, NG? Their brains are delightfully unique. But no less brilliant than humans. Dogs are more brilliant, even, because they can sense and distinguish thousands of smells, read the full recent past of any location, with a single sniff. They can even diagnose COVID-19 before the best chemical tests can. They are tremendously talented. They are playful, creative, problem-solving, ingenious, affectionate, goofy, hyperactive, hyperfocused, distractible… every stripe of human brain/personality, you can find a dog who makes it huge and colorful.
The Wellerman
Thank you for trying to help Laura.
I very much appreciate your effort.
But like, I’m really dizzy and in a spiral right now.
Just overwhelmed by all this…. this world…. history stained by the suffering of the innocent… the awfulness… all this injustice…. all this suffering….
HOW DO YOU HUMANS LIVE LIKE THIS?!?!?!
??????
Laura
OK, yeah, I get that.
Maybe take a break from this for a while. If you’re in a place where you can step outside and touch the ground or breathe in the air deeply with your nose, that helps. Or running your hands under a faucet.
Or what soothes you. Maybe a game or some music, or a coding project you’re working on. (I find Foucault’s georotational pendulum incredibly soothing, but that’s just me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d71acFIh0g0)
You know how to care for yourself — I’m not able to play Mr. Fix-It and it’s often unhelpful when I try.
I hope your spiral can find its internal gyroscope soon. We all need to find our center of stable spin, sometimes.
The Wellerman
I don’t feel a thing….
And I stop remembering….
The days are just like moments turned to hours….
Mother used to say…..
If you want, you’ll find a way…..
But mother never danced through fire shower…..
Walk….. in the rain….
In the rain…. in the rain….
I walk in the rain…. in the rain…..
Is it right or is it wrong……
And is it here that I belong?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l9_p-nhZXLg
v.gay.person
So, yes, I understand exactly what you mean and appreciate that neither you or any one owes anyone else insight into your/their diagnosis/disability/neurotype.
It’s something I’ve been thinking about A LOT bc at uni I’m studying social work and find the way Autism is taught about is not good, and the mental health classes have actually disencouraged me…. My response has been to put on battle armour and go to war against the school, researching the experience of ND students and writing evidence-heavy essay on the subject to advocate for a neurodiversity affirming approach to be used by the school.
I believe that progress isn’t chained by the way we think (although I may be misinterpretting this part of your comment, wellerman, so apologies if so), but it is chained by our social systems (schools/unis/healthcare/govt/family). There’s tonnes of people in the disability movement fighting to make changes (in my country, this includes creating housing opportunities for young disabled people who have been put into aged care homes, more support in schools, NDIS etc). I draw hope from that*.
Also, Autism [can be] a disability. It is for me, but I use the perspective of the social model of disability. The world isn’t made with people like me in mind, and that is what is disabling. If the pharmacy is over-stimulating with bright, flashing lights and seventeen billion tvs going at the same time, then I am disabled because I cannot fill my scripts, or if I do I won’t be functional for three days while I recover. I wouldn’t be disabled if there was an option for me to access my medication without sending me into a three day long shutdown+ recovery time.
*there is so much more I want to say because I’m very passionate about the subject, hence inserting myself, but I started to tangent about how industrialisation contributed to disabling neurodivergency eg sleep-wake cycles and realised it was off topic
Laura
Oh, wow. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing that!
People ask why autism diagnosis rates are rising — maybe because society is growing less hospitable for different ways of perceiving and learning and interacting with the world.
thejeff
Maybe, but I’m not sure I buy it. It’s not like a lot of behavior didn’t get hostile responses in the past without having a medical diagnosis attached to it.
V.gay.person
There’s a bunch of factors that contribute to rising rates of diagnosis:
– changes to the diagnostic criteria (the current diagnosis is Autistic Spectrum Disorder which covers many out dated diagnoses like Asperger’s)
– increased understanding and research into gender and (to a lesser extent) racial differences in how Autism is embodied leading to more women and non white people have more equitable access an accurate diagnosis
– increasing awareness via health campaigns, internet access and social media, so people are seeing more autistic individuals which leads them to recognise traits in themselves or in their children and are able to access info online
– environmental factors which lead to burnout (and support seeking) as well as things like air and water pollution which has some evidence as a contributing factor (although I’m suss on the link)
Opus the Poet
Then again the author of Ghost In The Shell used placing the brain in “Autistic Mode” as a problem solving method, several times during the series Stand Alone Complex. Apparently autism is seen as an asset in Japan when the manga was being written and kept for the anime.
Taffy
The word “Autistic” basically just means “of itself”. In that anime, it’s just basically Airplane Mode with a more intelligent-sounding name. Nothing to do with the actual human condition.
Freezer
I read their reactions less as “We already knew” and more as “Yeah, that tracks.”
And, honestly, I think “You’re still you, no matter what the doctors say” is exactly what Joyce – who tends to hyperfixate and overreact – needs to hear.
powerpowerpow
I’ve never lived this exact experience before so I admit that I may be speaking out of turn. However, in the face of information that I perceive as earth-shattering to my self-identity, my friends reacting to it completely in-character and not being weird about it in the slightest would be the most comforting thing in the world.
Sarah going “Yep, tracks” and Dorothy offering casual support and reassurance is exactly how they’d react to any old information, to the point where if they reacted differently I’d be questioning their motive.
Tan
Sarah is helping by not helping
Doctor_Who
Joyce: Surely someone must be surprised by this revelation! Walky, Sal, aren’t yo-
(Walky slides Sal a ten dollar bill while she wears a smug “told ya so” look)
Joyce: OH, COME ON!
Sirksome
That would be funny, but part of me feels like betting on if someone has autism is kinda mean. At least a little bit.
drs
I think Sal and Walky could both manage being a little bit mean, in their own ways.
Sunday
“JUDGE ME!!!”
“Nah, we’re good”
ThunderNight
imagine if everyone already suspected she had autism
Thag Simmons
I don’t think we’re going to have to imagine that for much longer.
newlland(Henryvolt)
Personally I feel Like most of us are undiagnosed for something, half of us don’t get diagnosed till adulthood and some of us probably go through our entire lives not being diagnosed.
Brooks Flugaur-Leavitt
100% this.
Azhrei Vep
Naaaaah, I doubt much of anybody has actually considered it. But I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them had reactions like Sarah’s, where it makes so much sense once it’s come up that they’ll probably later wonder how they never realized it.
Stormrunner
I can say with certainty that people don’t always know.
I went over 30 years not diagnosed and even after my psychiatrist and psychologist pinged me – I was only coded as autistic for almost 10 years because of bad laws in place for organ transplants.
I told my family, and people I knew and some said “ok now that you explained it, I can see that” but ROFL so many were SHOCKED.
It hasn’t affected my everyday life, but it has affected how my therapy is and how I interact with stimuli and people. I’m also more vocal about what is causing me to over stimulate. <<–that took a long time though.
Pylgrim
Amber overhearing it: “Wait, you didn’t know?”
alongcameaspider
Both panel 1 and panel 2 Joyce would make excellent gravatars
RassilonTDavros
“…but only because a change would be easier to swallow than admitting she’s who you’ve been all along.”
RassilonTDavros
…could’ve sworn this was the email capitalization combo that gave me Booster, but I guess not
Laura
I think Booster’s a Greek Chorus.
Yotomoe
Still undiagnosed but I had a friend say “oh, you’re definitely ADHD” and every person I’ve told is like “yeah, I can see it.” o3o
Wraithy2773
So, basically like this somewhat recent Real Life comic? 😀 https://reallifecomics.com/comic.php?comic=february-8-2022
Jamie