The reason they shouldn’t hook up is because Joyce is gonna be the one having to deal with Sarah’s emotional aftermath of having lost her chance at Jacob. 0_0
But yeah other than that Jacob and Dorothy should totally hook up.
Yeah I think that would actually be potentially a very solid relationship. I mean I don’t feel like I know enough about Jacob’s off the clock interests, but given his family situation I feel like there’s a lot of potential for him to be a great avenue for Dorothy to learn about different ways that she could help people with a political science degree than going into politics. Which would probably help a lot.
i’m sure sarah would be fine with a more ‘serious’ relationship even if she doesn’t admit it
but wonder how it’d turn out if it did hookup and she was feeling unsatisfied like “yeah i’m over it now”
tho while joyce wouldn’t want sarah to be ‘heartbroken’ i’m sure she’d be overjoyed at the opportunity for ‘sister bonding’ (tho be nice if we had legit sister bondign with her and jocelyne too), and being able to support/comfort her
On that note, I wonder who Sarah’s rebound would be (if you would call them that).
anon
lol sarah isn’t exactly the type to join in on frat parties but outside of spiting raidah and jacob being ‘hot’ does sarah even like jacob as a person enough to have a ‘legit’ crush on him? b/c i doubt she’d be acting this thirsty if he was a ‘scrawny nerd’ lol (she did want someone she could ‘climb’ so maybe another occasional gym user lol)
Is that so? I heard that chastity belts were based on a mythical device from this era, but most of them were myths really?
*plays “pa$$ the time” by Bronze on hacked muzak*
BarerMender
The rack, as perceived by Victorians, was made up. The real rack was much worse. The iron maiden and the pear of anguish are also made up, although the iron maiden is, I believe, an imagined version of a real thing.
The real rack was three boards. Your breast went on one, your knees on one, and your heels under one. It worked by bending your knees the wrong way. Instantly. It crushed the kneecaps, snapped the hamstrings, and ripped the skin of the back in various places. I’ve read an account by a man who experienced it.
Psychie
I only know that the iron maiden was made up, but I don’t know about the rack, that seems like it could have been made up, or it could have been real. I do know the Ohio Ren Fest has an attraction that’s this creepy tunnel with displays of various medieval torture devices with plaques explaining them, but I don’t recall a lot of the details because I kept expecting someone to jump out at me like a haunted house, they went to WAY too much effort to make it incredibly creepy and unsettling if the only goal was to be informative, didn’t retain ANY of the information, lol, it should either be significantly less creepy or they should add some jump scares, otherwise it’s just a waste of money IMO.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that most of the “devices” were made up, because there were a LOT of really creative torture methods that didn’t require any special devices at all. Honestly, torture is shockingly easy and I don’t know why people overthink it so much, in the modern era all you really need is a PVC-pipe cutter, a blowtorch, and a knife, you might even be able to substitute the blowtorch for a lighter depending on how hard it is to get a knife hot enough to cauterize with a lighter. If you do it right you don’t even need to draw blood. (I should specify this is hypothetical, I have never tortured anybody, nor would I, but I play a lot of role playing games, both table top and live action, and I’ve played a lot of morally grey characters, some of which have had to employ torture, so I’ve put some thought into it)
All these car batteries and water boarding are way too risky, if the person dies before you get the intel you need then what’s even the point? Maximize pain, both physical and psychological, while minimizing risk of accidental death, promise to make it end once they give you what you need, after the intel has been confirmed, of course.
1st paragraph: otoh whats more nervewracking than a jumpscare that never comes?
HueSatLight
things getting rather morbid in here (comment section and brain)
Psychie
And I would agree if the stated goal was to be a nervewracking experience, but it was billed as an educational experience, so being thoroughly creepy and nervewracking undermined my ability to learn anything since the mood of the attraction made it almost impossible to be in a state of mind to retain any information. A jumpscare provides relief from that tension, once the tension is relieved you can start actually learning things. Or at least with a jumpscare I wouldn’t mind paying $20 or whatever it was and spending 15 minutes in a dark, creepy tunnel and not learning anything. But as an educational experience it kind of failed since it was too creepy to learn.
thejeff
One advantage to the creepy complex devices is fear. One of the classic steps is showing the victim the instruments and explaining their use. Get them to break themselves with anticipation before you even really get started.
Also, with torture, you’re really aiming for confession, not real intel.Torture is notoriously bad at getting real actionable information, but notoriously good at getting people to say whatever you want to hear. There are almost always more effective ways of getting information out of people.
Psychie
No, torture is bad for confessions specifically *because* people will say whatever they think you want to hear, which makes any confession given under duress unreliable.
What torture is good for is getting verifiable information, granted this isn’t really good under a time crunch, like trying to find a bomb before it goes off, since you need to have time to get them to talk, then you need to have time to verify they are telling the truth, and then if they aren’t you need time to punish the lies well enough to discourage further attempts at deception, and then you need to get them talking again, and so on. It takes a long time if they’re particularly resilient, but you *will* eventually break them and get what you need. The biggest drawback is you need to be sure the person you’re torturing actually *has* the information you’re looking for.
If someone is held prisoner, what more effective ways are there? Rewards? Doesn’t help with an extremist. Deception? Rather hard to trick someone to trust you when they’re your prisoner. Brainwashing? That’s just a different application of torture.
Torture is bad because it’s unethical, not because it’s ineffective. Also, because a lot of the situations, historically, where torture has been employed were situations where it *doesn’t* work, like with confessions. But if you have someone you are certain is the serial killer (for example), torturing them until they admit it means nothing, but torturing them until they tell you where the bodies are buried yields actionable intel that confirms they are the serial killer when you find the bodies where they tell you to look, the sticky part is figuring out where to draw the line and decide they aren’t telling you where the bodies are because they actually don’t know, how many wild goose chases does it take for you to conclude you have the wrong guy.
Regardless, still wrong, I am absolutely not advocating FOR torture, just saying the argument about it being ineffective or unreliable doesn’t hold up for gathering verifiable, actionable intel. If torture is ever considered an acceptable tool to resort to, it should be the last one, you should try other things first, but when all else fails, if you don’t have an ethical compunction not to employ torture, it’s a potentially effective fall back option.
On the fear and anticipation bit, that’s why I think the PVC-pipe cutter is a great option and why I said if you do it right you don’t even need to spill any blood, they start out significantly wider than a finger so you can pump it periodically to add to the psychological tension, and even when the blade touches skin it should take another pump or two before it even breaks skin and spills blood, most people would break long before the finger is actually severed.
I just don’t think you need a complicated device to have that effect, just explaining how you’re going to use this thin metal rod and a torch to torture them (not gonna go into detail for that one, but it’s a specific medieval torture/execution technique that is possibly the single most horrifying way to die), or how you’re going to use this spoon to torture them (more ways to do that than you’d think).
All I know is I see people hanging their torso off and doing some kind of upper body pull up only using their back muscles or abdominals or something. It’s one of those feats of athleticism that defy logic, like flag poling.
Nono
You basically do a situp on a slope. Your feet hook under the parts at the top to act as a fulcrum.
It’s nice for people who can’t help lifting their legs or have back issues when doing regular sit-ups or crunches.
LiamKav
Oh, I thought it was for making sit-ups harder. Never realised that it could help if you have back issues. I might try it.
Taellosse
When it’s set up as depicted, it is mostly for making sit-ups harder. But some versions of the device are designed to allow the angle of the backrest, relative to the floor, to be adjusted down to almost-parallel. In this configuration it mostly works as Nono describes.
BarerMender
I might use it for crunches, but sit-ups that way would, it seems to me put powerful stress on the psoas muscles.
It’s a Roman Chair, a device for torturing your abs beyond their normal range of motion and really overtaxing them. But it still won’t give you a six-pack if your rectus abdominis doesn’t have the ligatures needed.
either way given what happened last time i def would’ve asked what it’s for and a tutorial/demonstration as opposed to attempting it even if it’s less likely to hurt me the way the toebreaker thing did
I’m both of them in this comic, one because I’m thinking what Joe is saying and two because I haven’t the faintest clue of how to use that thingy either and I’m pretty sure that’s how I would be tackling it too.
If I’m not mistaken, that’s a bench that should be at a less severe angle, you hook your calves between where Joyce’s hands are so that the front of the calves would be facing the black round padding, and you do sit-ups.
But that’s just a guess as I’ve never used that thing and did my sit-ups, in the bygone days in which I used to do sit-ups, on the floor the way God or lack of creativity intended.
That’s more or less right. Doing them at an incline can work different parts of your abdominals, or doing them at the incline makes it easier for people who have issues keeping their feet firm on the floor or have back issues.
i wonder if thats just his ‘joe-ness’ or he knows dorothy well enough as well to know that dorothy would consider a ‘hookup’ versus a longer relationship (tho i suppose ppl could’ve seen dorothy/walky as a fling even tho they were a bit more serious about each other )
If they do “hook up” it’ll be at least as serious as dorothy/walky was. Or fall apart even quicker, I suppose. Jacob is explicitly not interested in casual hook ups and Dorothy isn’t capable of them, even when she tries.
Dorothy and Jacob never hooked up because they’re so similar hooking up would essentially be masturbation. Also on a more serious note I can’t help but think Dorothy has a lot of superficially similar traits to Raidah and Jacob was already dating Raidah for most of the time they been acquainted.
I think it’s fitting. Raidah is kind of a foil and rival to her. Their similarities help highlight their differences and Raidah isn’t all bad. She is a studious, organized, and career oriented young woman and until very recently so was Dorothy. Jacob had a checklist at one point and I wouldn’t doubt Dorothy checked all the boxes, but the point of his little character arc with Joyce was that maybe chemistry didn’t mean looking for a girl off a checklist, or at least revising it.
One really noticeable difference is religion, which is part of why Jacob had clicked with Joyce so well. I have no idea how well he would go with a partner who is non.
I dunno, he said his interest was mostly academic, didn’t he? He liked talking about it with her, but he’d just need an atheist who wouldn’t be a jerk about him going to church, and honestly Dorothy might enjoy a purely academic conversation about religious teachings too.
Yeah, first Jacob was dating Raidah (and Dorothy was dating Walky when they first met) and then after that Jacob was probably staying distant from that whole social circle thanks to the Joyce thing.
170 thoughts on “Figured out”
Ana Chronistic
side arc of Joyce “figuring out” all the exermacising equipment
Dave Van Domelen
Exermasochism equipment.
Doctor_Who
We need to vote that device in for a Patreon bonus strip just so we can see the arc continue.
milu
if only to slow Willis down by making them draw a bunch of equipment and tricky poses.
he is too powerful.
Decidedly Orthogonal
So uh Joyce, this is how you go about getting hurt exercising. Just uh… FYI.
Sharaku
For the curious, it’s an Incline Situp Bench. Probably on its highest position.
NGPZ
The reason they shouldn’t hook up is because Joyce is gonna be the one having to deal with Sarah’s emotional aftermath of having lost her chance at Jacob. 0_0
But yeah other than that Jacob and Dorothy should totally hook up.
AK
Yeah I think that would actually be potentially a very solid relationship. I mean I don’t feel like I know enough about Jacob’s off the clock interests, but given his family situation I feel like there’s a lot of potential for him to be a great avenue for Dorothy to learn about different ways that she could help people with a political science degree than going into politics. Which would probably help a lot.
NGPZ
YES she could really use that right about now ?
Coatl
And yes, this can help Dorothy and see which political science is more extensive.
BarerMender
And find out who called the study of politics “science.”
Clif
Jacob will make an excellent first gentleman.
milu
plus, Raidah would be SO MAD
NGPZ
oh hell yeah! >:D
Coatl
We cannot deny that Joyce created a series in her head given that probability, but a friendship between Dorothy and Jacob is also acceptable.
anon
i’m sure sarah would be fine with a more ‘serious’ relationship even if she doesn’t admit it
but wonder how it’d turn out if it did hookup and she was feeling unsatisfied like “yeah i’m over it now”
tho while joyce wouldn’t want sarah to be ‘heartbroken’ i’m sure she’d be overjoyed at the opportunity for ‘sister bonding’ (tho be nice if we had legit sister bondign with her and jocelyne too), and being able to support/comfort her
NGPZ
On that note, I wonder who Sarah’s rebound would be (if you would call them that).
anon
lol sarah isn’t exactly the type to join in on frat parties but outside of spiting raidah and jacob being ‘hot’ does sarah even like jacob as a person enough to have a ‘legit’ crush on him? b/c i doubt she’d be acting this thirsty if he was a ‘scrawny nerd’ lol (she did want someone she could ‘climb’ so maybe another occasional gym user lol)
Sirksome
Is that the thing for the situps? I seen people use those and it looks like witchcraft. Defying physics is what people do on that thing I think.
Dara
I think so? I’ve never used it myself but I think I’ve seen people do that.
NGPZ
I’m pretty sure that’s a medieval torture device 0_0
wwwhhattt
Fun fact! The most famous medieval torture devices were made up by Victorians. Gotta make the past look awful otherwise progress might not be real
NGPZ
Is that so? I heard that chastity belts were based on a mythical device from this era, but most of them were myths really?
*plays “pa$$ the time” by Bronze on hacked muzak*
BarerMender
The rack, as perceived by Victorians, was made up. The real rack was much worse. The iron maiden and the pear of anguish are also made up, although the iron maiden is, I believe, an imagined version of a real thing.
The real rack was three boards. Your breast went on one, your knees on one, and your heels under one. It worked by bending your knees the wrong way. Instantly. It crushed the kneecaps, snapped the hamstrings, and ripped the skin of the back in various places. I’ve read an account by a man who experienced it.
Psychie
I only know that the iron maiden was made up, but I don’t know about the rack, that seems like it could have been made up, or it could have been real. I do know the Ohio Ren Fest has an attraction that’s this creepy tunnel with displays of various medieval torture devices with plaques explaining them, but I don’t recall a lot of the details because I kept expecting someone to jump out at me like a haunted house, they went to WAY too much effort to make it incredibly creepy and unsettling if the only goal was to be informative, didn’t retain ANY of the information, lol, it should either be significantly less creepy or they should add some jump scares, otherwise it’s just a waste of money IMO.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that most of the “devices” were made up, because there were a LOT of really creative torture methods that didn’t require any special devices at all. Honestly, torture is shockingly easy and I don’t know why people overthink it so much, in the modern era all you really need is a PVC-pipe cutter, a blowtorch, and a knife, you might even be able to substitute the blowtorch for a lighter depending on how hard it is to get a knife hot enough to cauterize with a lighter. If you do it right you don’t even need to draw blood. (I should specify this is hypothetical, I have never tortured anybody, nor would I, but I play a lot of role playing games, both table top and live action, and I’ve played a lot of morally grey characters, some of which have had to employ torture, so I’ve put some thought into it)
All these car batteries and water boarding are way too risky, if the person dies before you get the intel you need then what’s even the point? Maximize pain, both physical and psychological, while minimizing risk of accidental death, promise to make it end once they give you what you need, after the intel has been confirmed, of course.
milu
1st paragraph: otoh whats more nervewracking than a jumpscare that never comes?
HueSatLight
things getting rather morbid in here (comment section and brain)
Psychie
And I would agree if the stated goal was to be a nervewracking experience, but it was billed as an educational experience, so being thoroughly creepy and nervewracking undermined my ability to learn anything since the mood of the attraction made it almost impossible to be in a state of mind to retain any information. A jumpscare provides relief from that tension, once the tension is relieved you can start actually learning things. Or at least with a jumpscare I wouldn’t mind paying $20 or whatever it was and spending 15 minutes in a dark, creepy tunnel and not learning anything. But as an educational experience it kind of failed since it was too creepy to learn.
thejeff
One advantage to the creepy complex devices is fear. One of the classic steps is showing the victim the instruments and explaining their use. Get them to break themselves with anticipation before you even really get started.
Also, with torture, you’re really aiming for confession, not real intel.Torture is notoriously bad at getting real actionable information, but notoriously good at getting people to say whatever you want to hear. There are almost always more effective ways of getting information out of people.
Psychie
No, torture is bad for confessions specifically *because* people will say whatever they think you want to hear, which makes any confession given under duress unreliable.
What torture is good for is getting verifiable information, granted this isn’t really good under a time crunch, like trying to find a bomb before it goes off, since you need to have time to get them to talk, then you need to have time to verify they are telling the truth, and then if they aren’t you need time to punish the lies well enough to discourage further attempts at deception, and then you need to get them talking again, and so on. It takes a long time if they’re particularly resilient, but you *will* eventually break them and get what you need. The biggest drawback is you need to be sure the person you’re torturing actually *has* the information you’re looking for.
If someone is held prisoner, what more effective ways are there? Rewards? Doesn’t help with an extremist. Deception? Rather hard to trick someone to trust you when they’re your prisoner. Brainwashing? That’s just a different application of torture.
Torture is bad because it’s unethical, not because it’s ineffective. Also, because a lot of the situations, historically, where torture has been employed were situations where it *doesn’t* work, like with confessions. But if you have someone you are certain is the serial killer (for example), torturing them until they admit it means nothing, but torturing them until they tell you where the bodies are buried yields actionable intel that confirms they are the serial killer when you find the bodies where they tell you to look, the sticky part is figuring out where to draw the line and decide they aren’t telling you where the bodies are because they actually don’t know, how many wild goose chases does it take for you to conclude you have the wrong guy.
Regardless, still wrong, I am absolutely not advocating FOR torture, just saying the argument about it being ineffective or unreliable doesn’t hold up for gathering verifiable, actionable intel. If torture is ever considered an acceptable tool to resort to, it should be the last one, you should try other things first, but when all else fails, if you don’t have an ethical compunction not to employ torture, it’s a potentially effective fall back option.
On the fear and anticipation bit, that’s why I think the PVC-pipe cutter is a great option and why I said if you do it right you don’t even need to spill any blood, they start out significantly wider than a finger so you can pump it periodically to add to the psychological tension, and even when the blade touches skin it should take another pump or two before it even breaks skin and spills blood, most people would break long before the finger is actually severed.
I just don’t think you need a complicated device to have that effect, just explaining how you’re going to use this thin metal rod and a torch to torture them (not gonna go into detail for that one, but it’s a specific medieval torture/execution technique that is possibly the single most horrifying way to die), or how you’re going to use this spoon to torture them (more ways to do that than you’d think).
Needfuldoer
The same Victorians who ate most of the mummies?
Nono
Yeah, incline situps.
Sirksome
All I know is I see people hanging their torso off and doing some kind of upper body pull up only using their back muscles or abdominals or something. It’s one of those feats of athleticism that defy logic, like flag poling.
Nono
You basically do a situp on a slope. Your feet hook under the parts at the top to act as a fulcrum.
It’s nice for people who can’t help lifting their legs or have back issues when doing regular sit-ups or crunches.
LiamKav
Oh, I thought it was for making sit-ups harder. Never realised that it could help if you have back issues. I might try it.
Taellosse
When it’s set up as depicted, it is mostly for making sit-ups harder. But some versions of the device are designed to allow the angle of the backrest, relative to the floor, to be adjusted down to almost-parallel. In this configuration it mostly works as Nono describes.
BarerMender
I might use it for crunches, but sit-ups that way would, it seems to me put powerful stress on the psoas muscles.
Ryan
It appears to be adjustable and folded to an unreasonable position, maybe to make space? Or maybe sadism, masochism, or both.
ValdVin
Bingo. I don’t know if I’ve seen one of these at such a sharp angle. Usually it’s a fair amount more towards the horizontal.
Makes whatever Joyce is doing a lot funnier.
Opus the Poet
It’s a Roman Chair, a device for torturing your abs beyond their normal range of motion and really overtaxing them. But it still won’t give you a six-pack if your rectus abdominis doesn’t have the ligatures needed.
anon
either way given what happened last time i def would’ve asked what it’s for and a tutorial/demonstration as opposed to attempting it even if it’s less likely to hurt me the way the toebreaker thing did
LaGrosseLegume
She is kinda short for this one. I can relate to that
Aura
Looks like the SS whatever-Dorothy-and-Jacob are is ready to leave harbour! Good luck to all the shippers, may all your favourite characters kiss ^^
Thag Simmons
I’m just glad Jacob has something to do again
Aura
That’s fair! I quite like Jacob and am enjoying seeing a bit more of him 🙂
Max
Dorcub? Jacothy? White Chocolate? Air Force 1+1? Jake and the Thin Woman?
David DeLaney
All Talk No Action
–Dave, Strange Bedfellows
Dara
“In fact, I’m glad.” [anxiety face]
Yeah. Keep telling yourself that, Joyce.
StClair
It’s an incredible relief, and she’s super not mad at all.
milu
i read it as concern for dorothy, which is valid
Bittersweet
I’m both of them in this comic, one because I’m thinking what Joe is saying and two because I haven’t the faintest clue of how to use that thingy either and I’m pretty sure that’s how I would be tackling it too.
cbwroses
If I’m not mistaken, that’s a bench that should be at a less severe angle, you hook your calves between where Joyce’s hands are so that the front of the calves would be facing the black round padding, and you do sit-ups.
But that’s just a guess as I’ve never used that thing and did my sit-ups, in the bygone days in which I used to do sit-ups, on the floor the way God or lack of creativity intended.
Nono
That’s more or less right. Doing them at an incline can work different parts of your abdominals, or doing them at the incline makes it easier for people who have issues keeping their feet firm on the floor or have back issues.
Grimey
Joe just being able to see hook-up scenarios from a mile away is a talent I never knew I wanted until now.
anon
i wonder if thats just his ‘joe-ness’ or he knows dorothy well enough as well to know that dorothy would consider a ‘hookup’ versus a longer relationship (tho i suppose ppl could’ve seen dorothy/walky as a fling even tho they were a bit more serious about each other )
thejeff
If they do “hook up” it’ll be at least as serious as dorothy/walky was. Or fall apart even quicker, I suppose. Jacob is explicitly not interested in casual hook ups and Dorothy isn’t capable of them, even when she tries.
Thag Simmons
Joe’s instincts for this sort of thing have historically been unreliable. He’s a pretty bad wingman but he’s made some decent reads before
milu
yeah i’m not sure that jacob is especially good at predicting hookups rather than just having “now kiss” on the tip of his tongue always
Sirksome
Dorothy and Jacob never hooked up because they’re so similar hooking up would essentially be masturbation. Also on a more serious note I can’t help but think Dorothy has a lot of superficially similar traits to Raidah and Jacob was already dating Raidah for most of the time they been acquainted.
Coatl
Well, Dorothy has had her moments, but comparing her to Raidah
Sirksome
I think it’s fitting. Raidah is kind of a foil and rival to her. Their similarities help highlight their differences and Raidah isn’t all bad. She is a studious, organized, and career oriented young woman and until very recently so was Dorothy. Jacob had a checklist at one point and I wouldn’t doubt Dorothy checked all the boxes, but the point of his little character arc with Joyce was that maybe chemistry didn’t mean looking for a girl off a checklist, or at least revising it.
Coatl
Both are applied, of course, but I feel that for the moment we have to wait and see if there are more details
Thag Simmons
Raidah has traits other than being a bongo, although it does tend to loom large
3oranges
One really noticeable difference is religion, which is part of why Jacob had clicked with Joyce so well. I have no idea how well he would go with a partner who is non.
Coatl
A friendship with both is welcomed without problems.
Li
I dunno, he said his interest was mostly academic, didn’t he? He liked talking about it with her, but he’d just need an atheist who wouldn’t be a jerk about him going to church, and honestly Dorothy might enjoy a purely academic conversation about religious teachings too.
A
Backing this up, here’s a strip where Jacob is called “the biggest Dorothy”.
thejeff
Yeah, first Jacob was dating Raidah (and Dorothy was dating Walky when they first met) and then after that Jacob was probably staying distant from that whole social circle thanks to the Joyce thing.
Nono
Third option: Dorothy and Sarah hook up.
Mym
Fourth option: gym room orgy
Bin