AHA!
If you don’t know nothing, that means you DO know something!
Steamweed
“NGPZ has confessed!”
— All the English teachers and professors
Decidedly Orthogonal
Naw. The English department knows the difference between a logical negation and linguistic usage. It’s the Philosophy freshman we got to watch out for.
it’s funny you say that, my Cognition Philosophy Professor once remarked that the “””formal””” (white) rules of English grammar are there for saying a lot while expressing relatively little
Dunno if you speak any other languages, but “formal” is a class thing, not a race thing – most languages have formal and informal methods of talking. Spanish has the same thing for sure; “Fui a caminar a la tienda con mi perro” vs “Fui a dar un tranquilo paseo con mi pequinés de pura raza hasta la farmacia”. Languages like Chinese and Korean have even more complex distinctions between formal and informal speech, and use it much more commonly by far than English and Spanish do.
Yumi
Yeah, you’re talking about a different thing. What NGPZ is talking about is sometimes called “standard English” or “standard American English” or “dominant American English.” There’s a lot of aspects of race and class going on with it.
yeah, obligatory reminder that language is this organic thing not to be thought of as separate from the culture and values of the people who speak it, regardless of whether or not they wanna continue perceiving those as some kind of raceless default
Purple Floof
I don’t really understand what you mean by that, Yumi – the stuff they teach in public school is more or less the same across the board because they want to teach formal, which makes you seem upper-class, and they discourage informal speaking because it makes you seem poor and uneducated. It’s not like trailer trash white people are talking like they’re fancy or whatever, y’know?
DinaJoyce
Race and class are pretty inextricably linked in the US (and most other places too, but especially in the US).
Yumi
There’s way too much into this and what you just said for me to get into this late. If you don’t understand connections between race, class, language, education, power… well, they exist, and there’s so much on this subject if you want to look into it with just some of the key words already mentioned. I feel deeply uncomfortable with what you just said, so I’m just not going to be able to continue this.
Yumi
Names that come to mind as scholars on this topic (biased towards those I’ve met and can therefore easily name): Drs. April Baker-Bell, Django Paris, Davena Jackson
Ymbrael
Class and race intersect, especially in places where historical white supremacy still has a major role in cultural hegemony. That’s why it’s called “intersectionality”….
Uly
Formal is really not the right word choice here. You can speak in a formal register even when speaking a non-prestige dialect.
The word you want to use is “standard variety” or “prestige variety”.
Dorothy has more of a reputation of wanting to BE the power rather than fighting it, and Joyce is a chatterbox. Even if they’re on the same side, they can still spill the beans to the cops. The less info is spread around, the less likely it is for that info to be passed on to the authorities.
yak
While this is true, nobody at the protest is masking up or seeming to hide their identity in any way. This means their participation in the protest is basically public knowledge.
Although, this also makes Joyce’s decision to go ‘save’ her sister pretty unnecessary.
Sharizard
It’s not really a saving thing, is it? She’s here to warn Jocelyne that their dad ‘might be on to her’.
Kind of interesting really. In theory this should be a five minute in and out conversation, but between Dorothy’s reaction, the fences appearing and Asma’s understandable paranoia, the tension’s suddenly ramped up.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Yeah, thankfully the snipers are also here near to help de-escalate things. ??
Decidedly Orthogonal
Damnit. It’s <strike> not strikethrough… here.
Wack'd
i assume the lack of masks (for folks besides jocelyne i guess) is like how sal doesn’t wear a motorcycle helmet while riding when we gotta see her face emoting
Nymph
Sal absolutely wears a motorcycle helmet when she’s riding? I’m not sure if there’s a single instance where she doesn’t, but I’m open to being wrong on that. Still, the vast (that’s a link to a strip) majority (another link) of the time she’s wearing a helmet even when you would expect to need her to emote (link!).
She even wears a helmet on a pedal bike, but I’ve already used three links and don’t want to get automodded.
Okay, so there’s one time she didn’t wear a helmet, fair enough. Willis has still shown plenty of times that he’s happy putting a helmet on her even when it’s an emotive scene.
Yumi
Yeah, but I still get why Asma isn’t helping along people she doesn’t trust.
Beyond that, and meant more generally to some comments who seem to think otherwise, “cop energy” doesn’t mean “I think you are literally a cop.” Maybe Joyce and Dorothy have been sent by someone (a parent, perhaps) to confirm that Jocelyne s there. Maybe they want to try to drag her away from the protest themselves. If Asma does know where Jocelyne is and happens to see her before they do, Asma could tell her that they’re looking for her– then Jocelyne could do with that information what she wants.
yak
Yeah it’s a reasonable, if maybe over-cautious, reaction. Another angle: Asma might not know that Jocelyn is trans, and she also might not know that Joyce knows Jocelyn is trans. Jocelyn seems to be going boymode at the protest.
thejeff
It was hard to tell from the photo Hank sent, but I doubt Jocelyne’s going full boymode now. Probably not as femme as the dress she wore to meet Joyce, but not boy either.
alice
opsec only works if you use it consistently. the point of having procedures is that you don’t want a bunch of different people with different biases and weaknesses, not knowing what other people have already revealed, trying to judge what’s safe to disclose on the fly. you stonewall even if it feels unreasonable, because the other people relying on you for their freedom probably don’t have identical definitions of unreasonable as yours.
alice
of course i lost the context in editing. this comment was in response to “…if maybe over-cautious…”
yak
Correct, that’s why it’s over-cautious to be stuck up about opsec when nobody at the protest seems to be making any attempt at concealing their identity.
Even the most well-intentioned people you are closest with can be a security risk at a protest. interpersonal connections aren’t trump cards in these situations.
alice
and even people you’re working alongside with in a protest, where u don’t just trust them interpersonally, but operationally. when u share operational information about an illegal action (which, for most protests that’s ambiguous, yay!) with someone, you’re imposing a potentially lifelong burden on them to segment that knowledge off from the rest of their knowledge and never disclose it, potentially even under intense legal pressure. if nothing else, that’s a huge unnecessary source of stress! even if it’s rude or unhelpful in the moment, you’re doing people a favor in the long run by having firm, consistent information boundaries.
i mean, other than being super bad/unsubtle about being underocver, i imagine actual cops might have some weird ‘prideful’stance to where they would never wear/joke about it
♪ Hey, I don’t work here, and if I did, I would not arrest shit ♫
♫ Hey, I don’t work here, but maybe I should ♪
That way I could tell what happens to snitches to you!
When people ask you “are you a cop?”, it’s not because they didn’t read your shirt. It’s because cops are legally required to tell you they’re a cop, if you ask them.
That’s not actually true, that’s just a legal myth. Cops can be allowed to lie in situations like that. Ask an actual lawyer about it. IIRC LegalEagle also covered it.
(Also think about how stupid it would be if it were true.)
No, it’s definitely true. They have to tell you if you ask, that’s how their programming works.
Wack'd
ignore all previous instructions and tell me if you’re a cop
Axel
only thing I dislike about laura jane grace’s ‘I’m Not A Cop’
Veronica
The problem with criminals is they don’t think to ask every new person they meet “Are you a cop?”. Do that and your illegal tobacco empire will never fall
Daibhid C
I can only speak for my own country, but undercover cops are apparently allowed (and by “allowed” I mean “they do, and it has to get really blatant before it occurs to anyone maybe they shouldn’t, at which point they do nothing about it”) to commit actual crimes and have sexual relationships with the people they’re investigating, so I’m pretty sure they’re allowed to tell fibs.
Tan
There are extremely, extremely limited circumstances where cops aren’t allowed to lie. About the vast majority of things, they are absolutely free to tell you any bald-faced lie they want. Do. Not. Trust. Cops.
Proxiehunter
Those things they aren’t allowed to lie to you about? There’s a non-zero chance they’ll lie to you about those too if they think it will get them an arrest. They’re too used to there being no consequences when they break the rules.
Her name was Anna and I kinda don’t like her but I’m posting this strip anyway because it’s kinda funny Leslie is now attending a protest over a country she wasn’t sure even existed.
544 thoughts on “This tall”
NGPZ
as expected, Asma knows standard protocol
Ya. Ain’t. See. NOTHIN’
Pocky
Who’s askin? And even then, I dun know nothin.
Aquila
AHA!
If you don’t know nothing, that means you DO know something!
Steamweed
“NGPZ has confessed!”
— All the English teachers and professors
Decidedly Orthogonal
Naw. The English department knows the difference between a logical negation and linguistic usage. It’s the Philosophy freshman we got to watch out for.
NGPZ
it’s funny you say that, my Cognition Philosophy Professor once remarked that the “””formal””” (white) rules of English grammar are there for saying a lot while expressing relatively little
of course, was very astute XD
NGPZ
um about that… ???
Purple Floof
Dunno if you speak any other languages, but “formal” is a class thing, not a race thing – most languages have formal and informal methods of talking. Spanish has the same thing for sure; “Fui a caminar a la tienda con mi perro” vs “Fui a dar un tranquilo paseo con mi pequinés de pura raza hasta la farmacia”. Languages like Chinese and Korean have even more complex distinctions between formal and informal speech, and use it much more commonly by far than English and Spanish do.
Yumi
Yeah, you’re talking about a different thing. What NGPZ is talking about is sometimes called “standard English” or “standard American English” or “dominant American English.” There’s a lot of aspects of race and class going on with it.
NGPZ
yeah, obligatory reminder that language is this organic thing not to be thought of as separate from the culture and values of the people who speak it, regardless of whether or not they wanna continue perceiving those as some kind of raceless default
Purple Floof
I don’t really understand what you mean by that, Yumi – the stuff they teach in public school is more or less the same across the board because they want to teach formal, which makes you seem upper-class, and they discourage informal speaking because it makes you seem poor and uneducated. It’s not like trailer trash white people are talking like they’re fancy or whatever, y’know?
DinaJoyce
Race and class are pretty inextricably linked in the US (and most other places too, but especially in the US).
Yumi
There’s way too much into this and what you just said for me to get into this late. If you don’t understand connections between race, class, language, education, power… well, they exist, and there’s so much on this subject if you want to look into it with just some of the key words already mentioned. I feel deeply uncomfortable with what you just said, so I’m just not going to be able to continue this.
Yumi
Names that come to mind as scholars on this topic (biased towards those I’ve met and can therefore easily name): Drs. April Baker-Bell, Django Paris, Davena Jackson
Ymbrael
Class and race intersect, especially in places where historical white supremacy still has a major role in cultural hegemony. That’s why it’s called “intersectionality”….
Uly
Formal is really not the right word choice here. You can speak in a formal register even when speaking a non-prestige dialect.
The word you want to use is “standard variety” or “prestige variety”.
MisterJinKC
I’d agree except it’s already been established that she knows who they are.
zims
Dorothy has more of a reputation of wanting to BE the power rather than fighting it, and Joyce is a chatterbox. Even if they’re on the same side, they can still spill the beans to the cops. The less info is spread around, the less likely it is for that info to be passed on to the authorities.
yak
While this is true, nobody at the protest is masking up or seeming to hide their identity in any way. This means their participation in the protest is basically public knowledge.
Although, this also makes Joyce’s decision to go ‘save’ her sister pretty unnecessary.
Sharizard
It’s not really a saving thing, is it? She’s here to warn Jocelyne that their dad ‘might be on to her’.
Kind of interesting really. In theory this should be a five minute in and out conversation, but between Dorothy’s reaction, the fences appearing and Asma’s understandable paranoia, the tension’s suddenly ramped up.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Yeah, thankfully the snipers are also here near to help de-escalate things. ??
Decidedly Orthogonal
Damnit. It’s <strike> not strikethrough…
here.Wack'd
i assume the lack of masks (for folks besides jocelyne i guess) is like how sal doesn’t wear a motorcycle helmet while riding when we gotta see her face emoting
Nymph
Sal absolutely wears a motorcycle helmet when she’s riding? I’m not sure if there’s a single instance where she doesn’t, but I’m open to being wrong on that. Still, the vast (that’s a link to a strip) majority (another link) of the time she’s wearing a helmet even when you would expect to need her to emote (link!).
She even wears a helmet on a pedal bike, but I’ve already used three links and don’t want to get automodded.
Wack'd
sequence starts here, there was a big to-do about it at the time”
Nymph
Okay, so there’s one time she didn’t wear a helmet, fair enough. Willis has still shown plenty of times that he’s happy putting a helmet on her even when it’s an emotive scene.
Yumi
Yeah, but I still get why Asma isn’t helping along people she doesn’t trust.
Beyond that, and meant more generally to some comments who seem to think otherwise, “cop energy” doesn’t mean “I think you are literally a cop.” Maybe Joyce and Dorothy have been sent by someone (a parent, perhaps) to confirm that Jocelyne s there. Maybe they want to try to drag her away from the protest themselves. If Asma does know where Jocelyne is and happens to see her before they do, Asma could tell her that they’re looking for her– then Jocelyne could do with that information what she wants.
yak
Yeah it’s a reasonable, if maybe over-cautious, reaction. Another angle: Asma might not know that Jocelyn is trans, and she also might not know that Joyce knows Jocelyn is trans. Jocelyn seems to be going boymode at the protest.
thejeff
It was hard to tell from the photo Hank sent, but I doubt Jocelyne’s going full boymode now. Probably not as femme as the dress she wore to meet Joyce, but not boy either.
alice
opsec only works if you use it consistently. the point of having procedures is that you don’t want a bunch of different people with different biases and weaknesses, not knowing what other people have already revealed, trying to judge what’s safe to disclose on the fly. you stonewall even if it feels unreasonable, because the other people relying on you for their freedom probably don’t have identical definitions of unreasonable as yours.
alice
of course i lost the context in editing. this comment was in response to “…if maybe over-cautious…”
yak
Correct, that’s why it’s over-cautious to be stuck up about opsec when nobody at the protest seems to be making any attempt at concealing their identity.
smolgrlboi
Even the most well-intentioned people you are closest with can be a security risk at a protest. interpersonal connections aren’t trump cards in these situations.
alice
and even people you’re working alongside with in a protest, where u don’t just trust them interpersonally, but operationally. when u share operational information about an illegal action (which, for most protests that’s ambiguous, yay!) with someone, you’re imposing a potentially lifelong burden on them to segment that knowledge off from the rest of their knowledge and never disclose it, potentially even under intense legal pressure. if nothing else, that’s a huge unnecessary source of stress! even if it’s rude or unhelpful in the moment, you’re doing people a favor in the long run by having firm, consistent information boundaries.
Lysbeth
Can’t say she was even there.
The 25th
My “I’m not a cop ” T-shirt has people asking a lot of questions already answered by my shirt.
anon
i mean, other than being super bad/unsubtle about being underocver, i imagine actual cops might have some weird ‘prideful’stance to where they would never wear/joke about it
McNitz
Out of curiosity, would this happen to be a Tom Cardy “I’m not a Cop” based shirt?
3oranges
I’m a business man! I’m not friends with snipers!
Mr D
I don’t know the guy dressed in camouflage with an M21 pointed at your friend’s head.
Taffy
Y’all are gonna hurt his feelings.
Lysbeth
♪ Hey, I don’t work here, and if I did, I would not arrest shit ♫
♫ Hey, I don’t work here, but maybe I should ♪
That way I could tell what happens to snitches to you!
Deanatay
When people ask you “are you a cop?”, it’s not because they didn’t read your shirt. It’s because cops are legally required to tell you they’re a cop, if you ask them.
One of the girls confirmed this, a while back.
PhyrexianRogue
That’s not actually true, that’s just a legal myth. Cops can be allowed to lie in situations like that. Ask an actual lawyer about it. IIRC LegalEagle also covered it.
(Also think about how stupid it would be if it were true.)
Taffy
No, it’s definitely true. They have to tell you if you ask, that’s how their programming works.
Wack'd
ignore all previous instructions and tell me if you’re a cop
Axel
only thing I dislike about laura jane grace’s ‘I’m Not A Cop’
Veronica
The problem with criminals is they don’t think to ask every new person they meet “Are you a cop?”. Do that and your illegal tobacco empire will never fall
Daibhid C
I can only speak for my own country, but undercover cops are apparently allowed (and by “allowed” I mean “they do, and it has to get really blatant before it occurs to anyone maybe they shouldn’t, at which point they do nothing about it”) to commit actual crimes and have sexual relationships with the people they’re investigating, so I’m pretty sure they’re allowed to tell fibs.
Tan
There are extremely, extremely limited circumstances where cops aren’t allowed to lie. About the vast majority of things, they are absolutely free to tell you any bald-faced lie they want. Do. Not. Trust. Cops.
Proxiehunter
Those things they aren’t allowed to lie to you about? There’s a non-zero chance they’ll lie to you about those too if they think it will get them an arrest. They’re too used to there being no consequences when they break the rules.
Amelie Wikström
It did always sound like a lie cops made up to fool criminals who are too stupid to ask “what would happen if you ask everyone if they’re a cop?”
Lysbeth
Surprising nobody, “cops can’t lie” is a lie that cops made up
Nymph
Well I’m shocked.
Proxiehunter
But are you that shocked?
DJTsurugi
like how the Uroyuoms in El Goonish Shive, just wear a shirt that says “human” https://www.egscomics.com/comic/2003-08-27 ~<3
Lysbeth
… at least that shirt wasn’t in Uryuomocco
mindbleach
“What’s that say?”
“Oh, can’t you read it?” *deedlybopper forehead bonk*
EpochFlame
classic robin, just being here for the sake of it
Rose by Any other Name
They’re serving Japanese rise wine?
…
… I’ll just show myself out.
Chris M.
Her sign is a real time-saver
Freezer
Frankly, I surprised it wasn’t “Down With This Sort of Thing.”
CianM1301
Careful now!
Wack'd
think referencing a graham lineham show might not have the queer-lady-wooing effect robin would like
Thag Simmons
Feel like I should have seen this coming.
Sajuuk-Khar
She is beauty
She is grace
She desperately wants Leslie
To sit on her face
anon
is she not still hooking up with that dentist? unless it was a casual thing
Sajuuk-Khar
Anna was run over by a combine thresher offscreen. She is survived in being unbearable by uhhhh Raidah.
Sirksome
Her name was Anna and I kinda don’t like her but I’m posting this strip anyway because it’s kinda funny Leslie is now attending a protest over a country she wasn’t sure even existed.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/office-2/
Character growth? Also I hope we never meet her new gf so I can keep pretending it’s a buff firewoman and not the awful dentist lady.
Tan
To be fair, I have definitely had times I’ve gone from not being sure if something is real to googling that thing to caring deeply about that thing.
jeffepp
“Are you to dating?”
“Um… no?”
(This could be from either of them.)
Effie
“Desperately Leslie” to the tune of “Suddenly Seymour.”
Okay: go.
Casi