eh, honestly could have done without the “cheating bi” stereotype in particular, but okay XD
[insert rest of rant here, had a long appointment with social security, right after which my shark week decided to START start, and I am just TIRED (-_-) X-X]
idk i feel like harping on the “cheating bi” stereotype in this plotline is weird what with this comic being stuffed to the brim with bi characters! like, it feels weird and bad-faith toward a queer author who does a pretty good job writing queerness imo!
god forbid joynk and dorpy get a bit sillay with it
“Cheating” in a 12 day relationship no less. 1 bi character out of many didn’t go through all the proper protocols when ending a romantic relationship that was younger than most of her homework assignments.
Is it ideal behavior? No. Does it turn this comic into some sort of anti-bisexual thesis? Absolutely not.
Nurts2That
It’s not some thesis but, like, she STILL hasn’t gone through the proper protocols… And her best friend who is super hurt by it needs help too. And oh yeah let’s not forget that they dumped Walky in a super crappy way too.
Both characters are still examples of “how not to do things.”
Astariel
She absolutely did go through the proper protocols. She dumped Joe; Joe is dumped. His poly proposal does not act as a veto on the dumping. Becky needs help, but Joyce is the worst possible person to try to provide that help. Becky needs a Joyce break for now. I’ll give you Walky.
aw goddammit, been a while since i fucked up the html
Decidedly Orthogonal
What with all the other fucking going on, maybe the html was feeling left out!
Heavensrun
Again, She broke up with him. He offered a counter proposal that she has not responded to yet. If somebody asks me out, and I promise to think about it, we’re not *in a relationship*, I’m deciding if I *want to be* in a relationship.
Perils
THANK YOU. I’m not saying any type of cheating is okay, but lets not pretend Joe and Joyce were engaged.
Gangler
Yeah, like if you want to be stringent about your definition, then “kissed somebody before formally breaking things off with your partner of under two weeks. Had a difficult conversation with him the next day” and “Was porking the maid behind your spouse’s back for 8 years” can both be considered cheating.
But all cheating is not made equal. This is overall a pretty mild transgression from one out of many bisexual characters, in a comic where the entire premise is that young people are acting stupid and getting caught up in romantic drama.
thejeff
Agreed. This is a mild trangression that could be addressed and forgotten, if maybe not forgiven, with a little bit of time.
Instead both boys are basically ignoring the cheating. Walky’s just depressed that Dorothy’s dumped him again. Joe’s willing to forgive anything just for the chance to salvage something of his relationship.
I do hold out a little hope for Walky, but I think the odds are against it.
Again, I get that it’s not the same as “Was porking the maid behind your spouse’s back for 8 years”, but I’d still expect at least on of them to have some reaction to the cheating. And the “under two weeks” doesn’t really salvage anything, because they’re both clearly invested in the relationship. It’s not like they don’t care about it.
Gangler
They’re not “addressing” it because it’s literally a non-issue. What, do you expect it to factor into the divorce proceedings? Joe gets custody of the children because Joyce cheated?
Jammy
Not any anti-bisexual thesis, just a lazy application of an uncomfortable stereotype. But let’s be honest, it’s more the fact that 12 days in this comic may take more than a calendar year. The pacing is the real elephant in the room.
and yeah although this may be just a pet peeve of mine, it seems lot of problems with the flow of the narrative stem from the rate of time passing in the comic, which as Yoto put it
“seems to move both too fast and too slow at the same time”
Gangler
It would be a lazy application of an uncomfortable stereotype if the comic wasn’t filled to the brim with bisexual characters who have never cheated, not even on a mere 12 day relationship.
Flagrantly, within the text, this is not a bisexual problem, just a Joyce problem.
– two people who come out via cheating on their partners
– a right wing politician who denies it happening
– a formerly alcoholic teenager who’s STILL heavily in the closet and denial
– an RA who’s actually some pretty nuanced good representation (well, at least after she became not-an-abuser)
I know this is Dumbing of Age and pretty much everyone in the cast has their flaws, but come on XD
but all in all?
IMO the net result in terms of queer rep in this comic is actually pretty good!
(just honestly wish I weren’t so goddamn confused on whether or not I’m supposed to like or hate Joyce X Dorothy (per the author’s intention),
and even if we’re supposed to celebrate them being together, are we necessarily doing so for the right reasons?
should we go “yay they’re together and it’s cute!” or “yay they’re together so they’ve effectively quarantined the collateral damage of their inevitable growing pains from the rest of the cast”?
XD
drs
I think your list of bi characters left out Danny.
plus I dunno what Willis be cookin, hopefully some other folk in the comic will come out as bi, imma be eager to see where all this goes either way as usual haha
Psychie
I think Willis’ intention for any characters/situations that we’re not very obviously supposed to hate is that we should draw our own conclusions about what we like and what we don’t. Like, Toedad was pretty unambiguously meant to be hated, for example, but I don’t think Willis has a specific agenda vis a vis loving or hating this relationship. I think the intention is “this is how things went down, it’s a mess, but so are most things in this comic, do with that what you will”
Personally, I want to like it and be happy for them, but the way they handled it just taints it for me. I’ll probably be less bitter about it when Joe and Becky have had time to heal and start to bounce back from it, assuming this becomes the new status quo and there isn’t a shake up that’s going to wreck this new relationship too.
I dunno if I’d hold my breath, given the title of the next storyline is literally the last thing she said to Dina before they broke up — “I’m the problem, it’s me”
and honestly? even before Joyce X Dorothy started sailing, Becky has been her own volatile mountain of unresolved issues which was gonna abruptly surface eventually o3o
I like the couple, and want to see more of what they get up to, I just don’t like how they got there. Also, I’m really disappointed in Becky. She coulda had a good thing with Dina had she fully committed to the relationship.
Genuinely I’m really sick of this trope existing meaning we can never have a story with infidelity wirh bi characters involved. That’s patently silly in a cast fulla queer folks, and it reminds me of hearing people complaining about “bury your gays” in The Magnus Archives.
Honestly the bi part isn’t even an issue for me because of the way their sexuality has kinda just been breezed past. Neither of them were into women a week ago and I guess they’re both cool with it now. You could have replaced Dorothy with a genderbent version and nothing really changes.
I could dig up more examples but I don’t want to be here all night. The point is that Joyce has been showing attraction to women for nearly the entire length of the comic. She’s also had blatant crushes on Dorothy, Sal, and Billie for just as long. This did not come out of nowhere.
Now Dorothy hasn’t shown any attraction to women in general, but she has been pretty attached to Joyce for a long time. However, if you replaced Dorothy with Theodore, then you would have an ostensibly gay man who found out he’s attracted to his female best friend, which I would not consider a trivial change.
Nono
Joyce being “straight” was the crux of her rejecting Becky though.
It’s hard to really say how much of her “attraction” was subconscious and how much of it was just played for laughs. I don’t think most of those were crushes though, mostly admiration. Joyce didn’t have many older female figures to look up to growing up other than her mom. Sal even calls it out as objectification/hero worship. And that also tracks with Jennifer; Joyce thought she was cool and confident for “standing up” to Ruth.
Joyce wanted an older sister for ages.
AMagicalDuck
No. Her not being attracted to Becky was the reason for her rejecting Becky. She just believed at the time that not being attracted to women is the only reason she wouldn’t be attracted to her
Lys
No, Joyce rejected Becky because she wasn’t attracted to her, and to the extent that she gave a reason, it’s because she sees Becky as a sister, not because she’s straight.
In addition to this, Joyce’s behaviour towards her girl crushes is significantly and notably different from her behaviour towards her sisters. Joyce obsesses over Dorothy, Sal, and Billie, and expresses a desire for physical intimacy, but she does not act in this way towards Sarah, Becky, and Joycelene. Her fangirling on women she idolizes is not explainable as her wanting a big sister when she has big sisters in Sarah and Joycelene but doesn’t behave towards them the same way.
Nono
But the jump from that to ‘yeah I have no issues with admitting I’m in love with Dorothy’ just… happened. She was all “I’m STRAIGHT” and “Yeah maybe I could be into her… if I ignored everything below the waist” to just casually going down on Dorothy with no reservations.
Not saying it doesn’t or can’t happen. She just had shown zero physical attraction to Dorothy, so it just seemed like she reciprocated those feelings so readily.
Joyce literally admitting (while drunk mind you) that she’s considered the idea of watching Walky and Dorothy have sex particularly making sure she covers the Walky part of the coitus. She’s otherwise spent the whole comic length gushing about how wonderful and amazing Dorothy is. She’s definitely been into Dorothy for a long time.
eh, whatever
if I ignored everything below the waist
Below the neck even.
eh, whatever
She’s definitely been into Dorothy for a long time.
Yes, but sexually?
Corey C.
Joyce’s inner romantic took over once she and Dorothy kissed. She had been looking for a Hallmark love story since her first day of college, and since the kiss Joyce has re-contextualized her personal narrative so she was ALWAYS in love with Dorothy since the moment she laid eyes on her and is destined to marry her. Like Becky, who convinced herself she was going to marry Dina since they had sex, Joyce seems to have gone right to picking out china patterns and considering adopting Dotty’s last name because she wants this Hallmark romance to be fully realized ASAP… although this may not be what her heart TRULY wants, as with Becky, who shouldn’t be this heartbroken if she truly was in love with Dina that she would marry her…
Joyce may have rejected her religion, but the conservative “the person I first have sex with is the person I marry” idea is still running STRONG in her head.
Doopyboop
@eh whatever: I’d say wanting to watch Dorothy have sex with Walky would count as being sexually into her. Straight women wouldn’t want to watch another woman have sex, particularly with the focus on the woman over the man.
thejeff
The rest of this I completely disagree with – there had long been hints of Joyce’s bisexuality and interest in Dorothy in particular, but I was surprised that she didn’t seem to have any conflict or hesitation about consciously realizing that she was into women.
Li
@Nono: that statement coming at around the same time her sex dream about Ethan involved telling him to put his thing on her tummy, and he took out a wand like a PlayStation Move controller, fully detached from his body, to literally wave over her tummy?
Yeah, I don’t think she was, at that point, actually okay with anything below ANYbody’s neck.
Lys
But the jump from that to ‘yeah I have no issues with admitting I’m in love with Dorothy’ just… happened. She was all “I’m STRAIGHT” and “Yeah maybe I could be into her… if I ignored everything below the waist” to just casually going down on Dorothy with no reservations.
There’s a five month gap between then and now, during which Joyce went through significant changes including dumping her entire worldview. In addition to that, she was at the time not ready to deal with anybody’s below the neck. This is evidenced by how bizarre her sex dreams involving Ethan are, which show that she can’t even be heterosexual in the safety of her own dreams. She wants to have sex with Sal, but her hangups are getting in the way of her even fantasizing about it.
Moreover, Joyce being into Dorothy has been so obvious that Walky’s been joking about it for nearly the entirety of the comic’s span. Hell, Becky noticed it immediately and concluded that Joyce was into girls, and as it turns out she was right! It’s just that Joyce being into girls doesn’t mean that she’s into Becky.
eh, whatever
Joycelene […] Joycelene
Jocelyne.
There is no Joyce in Jocelyne.
Dandi_Andi
Theiy’re
Lys
This is going to be annoying to remember, but I will try. Thanks for the correction.
The Queer Agenda [frog memes]
Gotta remember that at that point in time, Joyce was still drinking the fundie flavor-aid. She was very repressed in general, and I doubt she’d considered that not being straight was a possibility for herself. I think it was Becky’s coming out that prompted Joyce to even admit ex-gaying Ethan was a bad idea?
Joyce changed and learned a lot in the time between then and now. It also happens that when bi folks grow up without knowing it’s a thing, some of us round ourselves up to “straight” and try to rationalize the same gender crushes as being platonic. Everyone gets those, right? Oh.
Doopyboop
Agreed, the whole point of the Becky and Joyce convo about ‘lesbian sex’ was that Joyce’s brain still imagined sex as only “penis in vagina”. And agreed, I definitely remember growing up and having lil crushes on other girls but not realizing it was a crush. Lots of “wow, she’s so pretty and cool, I just admire her a lot is all”.
AbacusWizard
Joyce/Dorothy has been foreshadowed for *years*. I don’t understand why so many people are saying it just popped up out of nowhere.
BadRoad
Some people (like me) are bad at noticing queer subtext. But I also know that so I usually just assume it was there and I missed it.
Dwampre Scorrigank
Honestly at the time I didn’t see it/believed Joyce’s rejections of the possibility (in fact got annoyed at commenters’ smug attititudes like “god Joyce just accept it already”). But I accept that people change and discover new things about themselves (and that I too am bad at subtext, though I still think calling it pre-emptively was jumping to conclusions because friendships can be intimate without developong into romance). Characters develop, it’s Dumbing of Age, not Already Dumbed of Age
Needfuldoer
Safe and warm forever.
Big Z
Naw, Joyce in particular has DEFINITELY from practically day one shown signs of bisexual attraction. This is the least “out of nowhere” plot twist.
Raspberry leaf tea, mint tea, ginger tea, bitter dark chocolate, yogurt, and plenty of iron-rich foods (taken with orange juice or vitamin C) may help.
I know a lot of my fellow bi and pan sexuals really hate being depicted as hypersexual and unfaithful, but I revel in it. The depraved bisexuals is just straight up one of my favourite character archetypes. Positive and healthy representation is boring, I want my bi pride to be gloriously evil, charmingly manipulative, openly wanton, shamelessly perverse. Make a character bi, sexy, and evil and I will fangirl forever.
big same “good representation” bores me to tears thats why I believe in broad representation there is not one perfect way to represent everyone for example I really do not like heatstopper I think its great for queer teens but something about its “wholesome pure” vibe really rubs me the wrong way they are teenagers let them be jerks sometimes. It also reaks of respectibility politics like if queer people “behave badly” we deserve our oppression.
BarerMender
I had to look up “heatstopper.” It seems to be “Heartstopper,” a movie about a sweet young gay couple. Boooring.
Dwampre Scorrigank
Oh I was thinking headstabbers from Wondermark
LiamKav
“Good representation” is why for years a woman in a group in a tv show or movie had to be the “sensible one” whilst the boys all got to be fun and quirky.
thejeff
But the reason that was necessary is subtly hinted at in your comment: “a women” vs “the boys”.
Well, yeah. Men get to be boys 24/7 under all circumstances. Women only get to be girls when a man wants to fuck them. It’s a totally normal, fully hinged system that doesn’t have any lopsided features, we promise.
thejeff
Well that too, but I mostly meant “one woman” who therefore has to stand in for “women” as a group, but multiple boys who could thus each be distinct and even portrayed negatively.
Big Z
Heartstopper’s kinda a good example of how I feel about all this, in that I like it for what it is but I’d probably like it less if it had more “teens are jerks sometimes”, in almost exactly the same way I’m kinda waiting for another shoe to drop on these two because right now they’re in a very “look we are so cute any interruptions last a panel or two until right back to cute” place and it’s as jarring here in DoA as Mike would be in Heartstopper.
Big Z
(re: me being a 40s cis man who’s read Heartstopper — when your aro-ace (and maybe lesbian-ace?) identified teen hands you a book and says its really good, you read it.)
409 thoughts on “Adjacent”
NGPZ
eh, honestly could have done without the “cheating bi” stereotype in particular, but okay XD
[insert rest of rant here, had a long appointment with social security, right after which my shark week decided to START start, and I am just TIRED (-_-) X-X]
QueenofSodor
idk i feel like harping on the “cheating bi” stereotype in this plotline is weird what with this comic being stuffed to the brim with bi characters! like, it feels weird and bad-faith toward a queer author who does a pretty good job writing queerness imo!
god forbid joynk and dorpy get a bit sillay with it
Gangler
“Cheating” in a 12 day relationship no less. 1 bi character out of many didn’t go through all the proper protocols when ending a romantic relationship that was younger than most of her homework assignments.
Is it ideal behavior? No. Does it turn this comic into some sort of anti-bisexual thesis? Absolutely not.
Nurts2That
It’s not some thesis but, like, she STILL hasn’t gone through the proper protocols… And her best friend who is super hurt by it needs help too. And oh yeah let’s not forget that they dumped Walky in a super crappy way too.
Both characters are still examples of “how not to do things.”
Astariel
She absolutely did go through the proper protocols. She dumped Joe; Joe is dumped. His poly proposal does not act as a veto on the dumping. Becky needs help, but Joyce is the worst possible person to try to provide that help. Becky needs a Joyce break for now. I’ll give you Walky.
Dave
This is <a href="https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/everyones/"absolutely not true; whether Joyce broke up with Joe has been <a href="https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/splash/"left deliberately open-ended. It’s a surprise tool to help us
generate more dramalater!Dave
aw goddammit, been a while since i fucked up the html
Decidedly Orthogonal
What with all the other fucking going on, maybe the html was feeling left out!
Heavensrun
Again, She broke up with him. He offered a counter proposal that she has not responded to yet. If somebody asks me out, and I promise to think about it, we’re not *in a relationship*, I’m deciding if I *want to be* in a relationship.
Perils
THANK YOU. I’m not saying any type of cheating is okay, but lets not pretend Joe and Joyce were engaged.
Gangler
Yeah, like if you want to be stringent about your definition, then “kissed somebody before formally breaking things off with your partner of under two weeks. Had a difficult conversation with him the next day” and “Was porking the maid behind your spouse’s back for 8 years” can both be considered cheating.
But all cheating is not made equal. This is overall a pretty mild transgression from one out of many bisexual characters, in a comic where the entire premise is that young people are acting stupid and getting caught up in romantic drama.
thejeff
Agreed. This is a mild trangression that could be addressed and forgotten, if maybe not forgiven, with a little bit of time.
Instead both boys are basically ignoring the cheating. Walky’s just depressed that Dorothy’s dumped him again. Joe’s willing to forgive anything just for the chance to salvage something of his relationship.
I do hold out a little hope for Walky, but I think the odds are against it.
Again, I get that it’s not the same as “Was porking the maid behind your spouse’s back for 8 years”, but I’d still expect at least on of them to have some reaction to the cheating. And the “under two weeks” doesn’t really salvage anything, because they’re both clearly invested in the relationship. It’s not like they don’t care about it.
Gangler
They’re not “addressing” it because it’s literally a non-issue. What, do you expect it to factor into the divorce proceedings? Joe gets custody of the children because Joyce cheated?
Jammy
Not any anti-bisexual thesis, just a lazy application of an uncomfortable stereotype. But let’s be honest, it’s more the fact that 12 days in this comic may take more than a calendar year. The pacing is the real elephant in the room.
NGPZ
this!
and yeah although this may be just a pet peeve of mine, it seems lot of problems with the flow of the narrative stem from the rate of time passing in the comic, which as Yoto put it
“seems to move both too fast and too slow at the same time”
Gangler
It would be a lazy application of an uncomfortable stereotype if the comic wasn’t filled to the brim with bisexual characters who have never cheated, not even on a mere 12 day relationship.
Flagrantly, within the text, this is not a bisexual problem, just a Joyce problem.
NGPZ
“stuffed to the brim with bi characters”
who include (but may not be limited to for long):
– two people who come out via cheating on their partners
– a right wing politician who denies it happening
– a formerly alcoholic teenager who’s STILL heavily in the closet and denial
– an RA who’s actually some pretty nuanced good representation (well, at least after she became not-an-abuser)
I know this is Dumbing of Age and pretty much everyone in the cast has their flaws, but come on XD
but all in all?
IMO the net result in terms of queer rep in this comic is actually pretty good!
(just honestly wish I weren’t so goddamn confused on whether or not I’m supposed to like or hate Joyce X Dorothy (per the author’s intention),
and even if we’re supposed to celebrate them being together, are we necessarily doing so for the right reasons?
should we go “yay they’re together and it’s cute!” or “yay they’re together so they’ve effectively quarantined the collateral damage of their inevitable growing pains from the rest of the cast”?
XD
drs
I think your list of bi characters left out Danny.
NGPZ
hence “not limited to” :p
NGPZ
plus I dunno what Willis be cookin, hopefully some other folk in the comic will come out as bi, imma be eager to see where all this goes either way as usual haha
Psychie
I think Willis’ intention for any characters/situations that we’re not very obviously supposed to hate is that we should draw our own conclusions about what we like and what we don’t. Like, Toedad was pretty unambiguously meant to be hated, for example, but I don’t think Willis has a specific agenda vis a vis loving or hating this relationship. I think the intention is “this is how things went down, it’s a mess, but so are most things in this comic, do with that what you will”
Personally, I want to like it and be happy for them, but the way they handled it just taints it for me. I’ll probably be less bitter about it when Joe and Becky have had time to heal and start to bounce back from it, assuming this becomes the new status quo and there isn’t a shake up that’s going to wreck this new relationship too.
NGPZ
re: Becky healing,
I dunno if I’d hold my breath, given the title of the next storyline is literally the last thing she said to Dina before they broke up — “I’m the problem, it’s me”
and honestly? even before Joyce X Dorothy started sailing, Becky has been her own volatile mountain of unresolved issues which was gonna abruptly surface eventually o3o
Twitcher
I like the couple, and want to see more of what they get up to, I just don’t like how they got there. Also, I’m really disappointed in Becky. She coulda had a good thing with Dina had she fully committed to the relationship.
Alice
Genuinely I’m really sick of this trope existing meaning we can never have a story with infidelity wirh bi characters involved. That’s patently silly in a cast fulla queer folks, and it reminds me of hearing people complaining about “bury your gays” in The Magnus Archives.
Nono
Honestly the bi part isn’t even an issue for me because of the way their sexuality has kinda just been breezed past. Neither of them were into women a week ago and I guess they’re both cool with it now. You could have replaced Dorothy with a genderbent version and nothing really changes.
Lys
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/curiosity/
In this strip and the one that follows it, Joyce is shown appreciatively checking out multiple women while blushing.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/sorted-2/
In this one she is struggling with her sapphic feelings, which she then buries under her attraction to Ethan.
I could dig up more examples but I don’t want to be here all night. The point is that Joyce has been showing attraction to women for nearly the entire length of the comic. She’s also had blatant crushes on Dorothy, Sal, and Billie for just as long. This did not come out of nowhere.
Now Dorothy hasn’t shown any attraction to women in general, but she has been pretty attached to Joyce for a long time. However, if you replaced Dorothy with Theodore, then you would have an ostensibly gay man who found out he’s attracted to his female best friend, which I would not consider a trivial change.
Nono
Joyce being “straight” was the crux of her rejecting Becky though.
It’s hard to really say how much of her “attraction” was subconscious and how much of it was just played for laughs. I don’t think most of those were crushes though, mostly admiration. Joyce didn’t have many older female figures to look up to growing up other than her mom. Sal even calls it out as objectification/hero worship. And that also tracks with Jennifer; Joyce thought she was cool and confident for “standing up” to Ruth.
Joyce wanted an older sister for ages.
AMagicalDuck
No. Her not being attracted to Becky was the reason for her rejecting Becky. She just believed at the time that not being attracted to women is the only reason she wouldn’t be attracted to her
Lys
No, Joyce rejected Becky because she wasn’t attracted to her, and to the extent that she gave a reason, it’s because she sees Becky as a sister, not because she’s straight.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/hindsight/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/forever/
In addition to this, Joyce’s behaviour towards her girl crushes is significantly and notably different from her behaviour towards her sisters. Joyce obsesses over Dorothy, Sal, and Billie, and expresses a desire for physical intimacy, but she does not act in this way towards Sarah, Becky, and Joycelene. Her fangirling on women she idolizes is not explainable as her wanting a big sister when she has big sisters in Sarah and Joycelene but doesn’t behave towards them the same way.
Nono
But the jump from that to ‘yeah I have no issues with admitting I’m in love with Dorothy’ just… happened. She was all “I’m STRAIGHT” and “Yeah maybe I could be into her… if I ignored everything below the waist” to just casually going down on Dorothy with no reservations.
Not saying it doesn’t or can’t happen. She just had shown zero physical attraction to Dorothy, so it just seemed like she reciprocated those feelings so readily.
Doopyboop
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-14/03-trystin-in-the-wind/observe-2/
Joyce literally admitting (while drunk mind you) that she’s considered the idea of watching Walky and Dorothy have sex particularly making sure she covers the Walky part of the coitus. She’s otherwise spent the whole comic length gushing about how wonderful and amazing Dorothy is. She’s definitely been into Dorothy for a long time.
eh, whatever
Below the neck even.
eh, whatever
Yes, but sexually?
Corey C.
Joyce’s inner romantic took over once she and Dorothy kissed. She had been looking for a Hallmark love story since her first day of college, and since the kiss Joyce has re-contextualized her personal narrative so she was ALWAYS in love with Dorothy since the moment she laid eyes on her and is destined to marry her. Like Becky, who convinced herself she was going to marry Dina since they had sex, Joyce seems to have gone right to picking out china patterns and considering adopting Dotty’s last name because she wants this Hallmark romance to be fully realized ASAP… although this may not be what her heart TRULY wants, as with Becky, who shouldn’t be this heartbroken if she truly was in love with Dina that she would marry her…
Joyce may have rejected her religion, but the conservative “the person I first have sex with is the person I marry” idea is still running STRONG in her head.
Doopyboop
@eh whatever: I’d say wanting to watch Dorothy have sex with Walky would count as being sexually into her. Straight women wouldn’t want to watch another woman have sex, particularly with the focus on the woman over the man.
thejeff
The rest of this I completely disagree with – there had long been hints of Joyce’s bisexuality and interest in Dorothy in particular, but I was surprised that she didn’t seem to have any conflict or hesitation about consciously realizing that she was into women.
Li
@Nono: that statement coming at around the same time her sex dream about Ethan involved telling him to put his thing on her tummy, and he took out a wand like a PlayStation Move controller, fully detached from his body, to literally wave over her tummy?
Yeah, I don’t think she was, at that point, actually okay with anything below ANYbody’s neck.
Lys
You are referring to this strip: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/foranybody/
There’s a five month gap between then and now, during which Joyce went through significant changes including dumping her entire worldview. In addition to that, she was at the time not ready to deal with anybody’s below the neck. This is evidenced by how bizarre her sex dreams involving Ethan are, which show that she can’t even be heterosexual in the safety of her own dreams. She wants to have sex with Sal, but her hangups are getting in the way of her even fantasizing about it.
Moreover, Joyce being into Dorothy has been so obvious that Walky’s been joking about it for nearly the entirety of the comic’s span. Hell, Becky noticed it immediately and concluded that Joyce was into girls, and as it turns out she was right! It’s just that Joyce being into girls doesn’t mean that she’s into Becky.
eh, whatever
Jocelyne.
There is no Joyce in Jocelyne.
Dandi_Andi
Theiy’re
Lys
This is going to be annoying to remember, but I will try. Thanks for the correction.
The Queer Agenda [frog memes]
Gotta remember that at that point in time, Joyce was still drinking the fundie flavor-aid. She was very repressed in general, and I doubt she’d considered that not being straight was a possibility for herself. I think it was Becky’s coming out that prompted Joyce to even admit ex-gaying Ethan was a bad idea?
Joyce changed and learned a lot in the time between then and now. It also happens that when bi folks grow up without knowing it’s a thing, some of us round ourselves up to “straight” and try to rationalize the same gender crushes as being platonic. Everyone gets those, right? Oh.
Doopyboop
Agreed, the whole point of the Becky and Joyce convo about ‘lesbian sex’ was that Joyce’s brain still imagined sex as only “penis in vagina”. And agreed, I definitely remember growing up and having lil crushes on other girls but not realizing it was a crush. Lots of “wow, she’s so pretty and cool, I just admire her a lot is all”.
AbacusWizard
Joyce/Dorothy has been foreshadowed for *years*. I don’t understand why so many people are saying it just popped up out of nowhere.
BadRoad
Some people (like me) are bad at noticing queer subtext. But I also know that so I usually just assume it was there and I missed it.
Dwampre Scorrigank
Honestly at the time I didn’t see it/believed Joyce’s rejections of the possibility (in fact got annoyed at commenters’ smug attititudes like “god Joyce just accept it already”). But I accept that people change and discover new things about themselves (and that I too am bad at subtext, though I still think calling it pre-emptively was jumping to conclusions because friendships can be intimate without developong into romance). Characters develop, it’s Dumbing of Age, not Already Dumbed of Age
Needfuldoer
Safe and warm forever.
Big Z
Naw, Joyce in particular has DEFINITELY from practically day one shown signs of bisexual attraction. This is the least “out of nowhere” plot twist.
Laura
I really hope the SSA appointment goes super well!!! ?✊️??????
NGPZ
oh, I already had the appointment, it did go super well, thank you!
apparently the SSA has all the info they need now and should get back to me as soon as this year, with me luck! <3
Laura
Best of luck with it all!!! ?
These 2 sites may help:
https://www.disabilitysecrets.com/
https://www.calable.ca.gov/
Laura
This one, also, in case you find yourself having to appeal:
https://apps.calbar.ca.gov/attorney/LicenseeSearch/AdvancedSearch?LastNameOption=b&LastName=&FirstNameOption=b&FirstName=&MiddleNameOption=b&MiddleName=&FirmNameOption=b&FirmName=&CityOption=b&City=&State=&Zip=&District=&County=&LegalSpecialty=112&LanguageSpoken=&PracticeArea=
(Assuming you’re still in Cali, IIRC)
Laura
Hmm, looks like my comments are getting blocked for some reason. If they do come back somehow, these 2 sites may complement them for Shark Week:
https://livewellzone.com/nettle-leaf-for-period/
(Nettle leaf tea or soup to replace minerals)
https://summerstirs.com/how-much-parsley-tea-to-drink-to-induce-period/
(Parsley is more to *induce* contractions and flow than to mediate it, but every so often that can be of use too.)
Laura
Hmm, my shark week condolences keep getting blocked. Odd!
Clif
Generally, if you make more than a single link it automatically awaits moderation. Or so I believe. Try a single link per post and see if that works.
Laura
Thank you!
deliverything
More than two, I think. Any time I’ve posted a comment with one or two links, it’s gone through right away.
Laura
Raspberry leaf tea, mint tea, ginger tea, bitter dark chocolate, yogurt, and plenty of iron-rich foods (taken with orange juice or vitamin C) may help.
…I hope *this* comment makes it through!
NGPZ
mmmm, well at least I have an excuse for dark chocolate (which I love), to go with this pain, so that good, thanks :’)
also Ethan avatar now! yay! ^^
DinaJoyce
Wait, does the site autocorrect period to shark week, or is this a new euphemism I’m just not familiar with?
DinaJoyce
I guess it’s the latter.
Azhrei Vep
Ooooh, I thought they were talking about actual shark week.
… Damn, that’s a fun euphemism. I’m definitely tucking that one in the language pocket for later.
flake
I’m personally partial to “blood ritual”
Doopyboop
Shark week is a euphemism for periods, it’s one I heard a lot followed closely behind by Aunt Flo (as in “Aunt Flo is visiting”) and ‘on the rag’.
Needfuldoer
Posts get automatically flagged for approval if they contain more than two URLs, even if they’re all for this very website.
Laura
Thanx, folx!
Lys
I know a lot of my fellow bi and pan sexuals really hate being depicted as hypersexual and unfaithful, but I revel in it. The depraved bisexuals is just straight up one of my favourite character archetypes. Positive and healthy representation is boring, I want my bi pride to be gloriously evil, charmingly manipulative, openly wanton, shamelessly perverse. Make a character bi, sexy, and evil and I will fangirl forever.
BTW – Griffith did nothing wrong.
Priv. Priv.
big same “good representation” bores me to tears thats why I believe in broad representation there is not one perfect way to represent everyone for example I really do not like heatstopper I think its great for queer teens but something about its “wholesome pure” vibe really rubs me the wrong way they are teenagers let them be jerks sometimes. It also reaks of respectibility politics like if queer people “behave badly” we deserve our oppression.
BarerMender
I had to look up “heatstopper.” It seems to be “Heartstopper,” a movie about a sweet young gay couple. Boooring.
Dwampre Scorrigank
Oh I was thinking headstabbers from Wondermark
LiamKav
“Good representation” is why for years a woman in a group in a tv show or movie had to be the “sensible one” whilst the boys all got to be fun and quirky.
thejeff
But the reason that was necessary is subtly hinted at in your comment: “a women” vs “the boys”.
Taffy
Well, yeah. Men get to be boys 24/7 under all circumstances. Women only get to be girls when a man wants to fuck them. It’s a totally normal, fully hinged system that doesn’t have any lopsided features, we promise.
thejeff
Well that too, but I mostly meant “one woman” who therefore has to stand in for “women” as a group, but multiple boys who could thus each be distinct and even portrayed negatively.
Big Z
Heartstopper’s kinda a good example of how I feel about all this, in that I like it for what it is but I’d probably like it less if it had more “teens are jerks sometimes”, in almost exactly the same way I’m kinda waiting for another shoe to drop on these two because right now they’re in a very “look we are so cute any interruptions last a panel or two until right back to cute” place and it’s as jarring here in DoA as Mike would be in Heartstopper.
Big Z
(re: me being a 40s cis man who’s read Heartstopper — when your aro-ace (and maybe lesbian-ace?) identified teen hands you a book and says its really good, you read it.)