541

Ultimately
Posted on May 2, 2025 by David M Willis

541 thoughts on “Ultimately”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    Dotty is easier than Joe?? =O

    1. clif

      Easier? Dorothy is muchly betersome and nigh onto goodly.

      Dorothy, your next line is “That would be fun, but probably a bad idea.” And then you hold your breath.

    2. Steamweed

      I’m guessing Joyce means she’s be much less anxious about her first time if it were Dorothy-ing instead of Joe-ing?

      1. Rose by Any other Name

        Ironically, I think Joe might prefer Joyce and Dotty having Joyce’s first time too.

        He’s really in his own head about harming her, so I think he’d be way more comfortable being Joyce’s second sexual partner.

        I just imagine this going down with Dorothy kissing Joyce, Joyce respondinng, they have sex, Joe walks in. Dorothy freaks out and apologizes to Joe. And then Joe is like “oh thank god” because now he and JOyce can just have sex without any weird pressure.

        1. cain

          I’d read that fanfiction but I think it would go much worse in reality. Everyone here has hangups about cheating.

      2. Sharizard

        Yeah, but probably only because Joyce isn’t considering it at all. Dorothy probably seems like a less anxious choice because Joyce hasn’t considered any or all of the details. If she started thinking about the possibility for even a second, that ‘easiness’ would probably fly right out the window.

    3. Li

      Something something “it’ll be okay, I already know how to do [half of that thing] really well”.

    4. Amós Batista

      Nothing will change my mind about Joyce’s preference. She, speaking that…

    5. Amós Batista

      By far, she’s easier to carry than Joe.

  2. Doctor_Who

    She’s a size six.

    1. Aquila

      The foot in her mouth?
      (Under the circumstances, perhaps I should clarify that I mean that in the idiom sense, not the cover-it-in-whipped-cream-and-suck-it sense)

      1. Tan

        This is a callback. See: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/02-i-was-a-teenage-churchmouse/pagans/

        1. Risky

          So the cover it in whipped cream and suck it sense.

        2. Throwatron

          this thread is incredible, thank you all

        3. Kelibath

          Not to mention the OTHER callback in panel one. WHAT A BRICK JOKE

        4. Steamweed

          Well, that joke fell flat.

        5. Laura

          Oooh! 9-x

  3. Sirksome

    Maybe they should have a practice run. Just so Joyce knows what she’s doing.

    1. Throwatron

      If you don’t warm up, it’s very easy to pull something when you spin like a top on his dingdong.

  4. Shakes

    Willis once again showing subtext is for cowards.

    1. clif

      Mmm.

    2. Dante

      This is straight out Domtext

  5. shadowcell

    dumbing of age book 15: guess hell’s real after all

    1. Steamweed

      Says Dorothy, right about nowish.

  6. pickonecard

    Jesus Christ, joyce

    1. Lumino

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu_RmSJxtUE

      1. Risky

        I expected the worst and instead was greeted with magic.

    2. Strain of Thought

      Holy hell.

    3. Opus the Poet

      +1!?

    4. Gnomedeplume

      I’m sure someone will be shouting that later

  7. Freezer

    GODDAMMIT, JOYCE!

    1. True Survivor

      Its Joyce doing the damning. The second Dorothy thinks she fought her way out, Joyce pulls her back in. That cruel, cruel capricious monster.

  8. mommert

    good grief joyce!!

  9. Bwsab

    Don’t do it, Dorothy! Don’t do it! Save it for another night!

    1. Anon

      imagine if it somehow turned into a 3 way but i imagine it wouldn’t go that way, versus joe being invited in joyce’s room and dorothy asked to ‘hide’ or so and coming out at an awkward time

  10. Bobcat

    Joyce. Seriously, dude.

  11. Cmasta1992

    My ship is fastly approaching the Suez Canal

    1. True Survivor

      I can’t decide if or how that comment is innuendo, but I like the pun.

      1. HueSatLight

        It’s Evergreen.

        1. Gilthwixt

          Considering how jammed up that got….uhhhh…

          Flared bases people, flared bases!

        2. Dante

          There was _So Much Art_ back in those days depicting Evergreen-chan as a big booty boaty (?) getting stuck in such a narrow passageways. Her hips didn’t lie.

          (This was my cultural addendum, carry on)

        3. Throwatron

          you have done us all a justice today

        4. Dante

          Fellow scholar, ’tis I’m glad to hear

    2. Laura

      No, her name’s Dorothy, not Sue.

      😉

    3. Thag Simmons

      Is that a good thing in this metaphor?

  12. Amós Batista

    how could Joyce is saying that, without any blushing??,

    1. animedingo

      autism

      1. AK

        Watch as this somehow has a completely chill explanation next strip because Joyce is completely oblivious to what the words coming out of her mouth would mean in a non-platonic context.

        Alternatively watch Joyce have taken Jennifer’s words about fucking your platonic friends to heart.

        Alternatively alternatively (though I super doubt it) watch Joyce be about to have a weird highly specific conversation with Dorothy about the things that feel correct to her in the context of their very queer friendship.

        But if I had to make bets based on the way this sequence has gone so far. The first one would be my bet.

        1. Kelibath

          The best, most caring reply from Dorothy here, if not just coming clean, might be something like this: “Look, I appreciate that, but you mean it platonically – right? Because you should really think about how that would mess with someone’s feelings, if they happened to see you in a different way. Would you say that to Becky? Or would it hurt her?” Even better if she just admits it. “Look. We *could*. But we wouldn’t just be friends anymore, and you’re with Joe right now, so do you really think that’s easier?” Because Joyce either needs to realise there’s something more between them or needs to stop accidentally queerbaiting all her female friends.

        2. Nymph

          To be clear – people can’t queerbait other people in the way you’re saying. Joyce is a character, so this storyline CAN be queerbaiting (though I doubt it), but Joyce as a person within the story cannot queerbait other people within the story.

          Except in the comic she writes which definitely IS doing that I guess.

        3. AK

          Yeah I’m… Honestly not sure this is problematic behavior for Joyce outside of our knowledge of Dorothy’s crush which she doesn’t share. I suspect that she is about to talk about how safe Dorothy has made this entire process feel for her, a thing which, like a lot of this sequence, when reading archivally is going to seem mildly tragic for Dorothy but pretty normal if awkward in the realm of conversations for people to have in the context of their friendship. but when read day to day it’s a bit of a rollercoaster.

          Unless Joyce has taken that Jennifer line to heart.

        4. Kelibath

          Sadly I suspect that Jennifer throw-away line is a Chekov’s gun

      2. Amós Batista

        o-okay, I want this autism. Because mine is to be completely ashamed to asking out and talking about sexual things

        1. DashWallkick

          Don’t speak too quickly — when you’re autistic the shame and embarrassment moves to after you make a social faux paus and are told the subtext and rudeness of what you said. So, you know. Know that going in.

  13. PeebsBeaSapphicQueen

    this is so friggin gay and I am here for it!!!

  14. Fartmaster Supreme

    Okay Willis, you’re getting my $5.

    1. Davus

      I mean, if there is any day for that…
      I’m worried for dotty. Maybe she should ask Walky if he’s chill with it, because I think he might be.
      This is going to be dumb isn’t it.

      1. bo

        *taps the title sign*

        1. Adept

          Exactly bo

  15. audkitten

    Does Joyce know she’s bi?

    1. Jeff K!

      She’s in her second semester of gender studies class, she’s been observing and contemplating sexualities and lifestyles outside of her former experience, and she’s actually a pretty smart cookie… plus people keep pointing it out to her.

      I’d be rather surprised if she hasn’t at a minimum taken some personal time off camera to think about it.

      1. Proxiehunter

        And then she incorrectly decided that can’t possibly be the case. Because if she were bi then she wouldn’t have broken her best friends heart.

    2. Laura

      Hopefully Joyce has been coming to terms with her own latent (bi)sexuality.

      (Heh heh… “coming to terms”…)

    3. animedingo

      does joyce know joyce is bi?

      1. TheKelliestKelly

        I genuinely thought that’s what audkitten meant before I read your reply

        1. bemisawa

          Oh, whoops, me too.

        2. Proxiehunter

          It isn’t?

    4. Thag Simmons

      Dorothy did send her a titty pic

    5. Pergola

      Everyone in the cast is bi. Some find this out sooner than others.

      1. Astariel

        Becky takes offence to that.

      2. Azhrei Vep

        Except Ethan. Ethan will be the sole holdout against the tide of bi- and pansexuality sweeping through Indiana.

      3. thejeff

        Also Jennifer. Inexplicably, she’s still straight, even though she’s into girls.

    6. cain

      She was pretty confident she wasn’t bi when Becky kissed her.

      1. Jeff K!

        She sees Becky as almost literal family.
        That also causes repulsion, though Joyce wouldn’t have had the context to identify that at the time.

      2. TerribleTransit

        She was confident she wasn’t into Becky that way. She didn’t make any strong statements against being into girls in general.

        To be fair, if pressed on the matter, she probably would have stated pretty confidently that she wasn’t bi. But so would (and did!) Dorothy up until a day or two ago, so it’s not exactly a foolproof litmus test.

    7. DashWallkick

      My money is on Joyce is straight and/or she internalizes Jennifer’s advice of “it’s okay to do it like, one time with a girl, you’re still straight.”

  16. Queen Anthai

    Joyce what the fuck are you DOING

    1. Dara

      DOROTHY

      or trying to

      xD

      1. Amara

        “Friends can bang, like, once.”

        1. Steamweed

          “Joyce, you can’t seduce me! What about Joe?”
          “But Jennifer said it was okay!”
          “Omigodwhatthefuck.”

    2. Needfuldoer

      Joe, soon.

      At least that’s the plan.

    3. Risky

      Trying to get some use out of the size 6 Billie gave her.

    4. Gnomedeplume

      What they were doing earlier, but without washing machines

  17. NGPZ

    *plays “Pink” from FLCL on hacked muzak*

    1. NGPZ

      cuz these diggaz gonna OVERFLOW and I got a front row seat >:3

      *munches popcorn*

      1. True Survivor

        My friend,
        I get that you’re some sort of extraterrestrial parasite. However, sometimes you post things that make me remember that you must exist in a completely different subculture than I do, and it startles and fascinates me. I occasionally have no idea what you are talking about, but you always seem uncommonly sincere. You are like a Narwal – a sea unicorn that occasionally is seen partially above the waves before disappearing into an unseen incompressible world full of indecipherable songs.
        Our brief interactions in this chatroom over the years have led me to paint you as fun, and weird, and mysterious – which are all good things to be. Sometimes I think I let the world trick me into thinking the universe is collapsing into the easily defined. The known and boring or unpredictable and terrifying. It is good to be remined that its not .. and that it could always use more Narwals.

        1. Opus the Poet

          That’s a reference to the Caravan Palace tune “Lone Diggers”.
          https://youtu.be/TbsBEb1ZxWA?si=CvJlScIvSSARINXI

        2. Azhrei Vep

          Whaaat!? You dare invoke Lone Digger without its glorious (and/or infamous) Music Video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbQgXeY_zi4&pp=ygUabG9uZSBkaWdnZXIgY2FyYXZhbiBwYWxhY2U%3D

          HOW DARE!?

        3. Thing2

          NGPZ may be an Ozzie…

        4. NGPZ

          Nope, born in the US, mostly Oriental (Mizrahi) and Louisiana Creole XD

    2. Risky

      To be fair it’s only “from” FLCL if you add some qualifiers.

  18. SevenFerns

    Holy shit

  19. apricot

    Girl,

  20. Ty34er

    If I had a nickel for every time that one of Joyce’s closest friends had same sex attraction to her and they wanted to or did say something while on Joyce’s bed, I’d have 2 nickels. It isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice and within 1 calendar year.

    1. sultryglebe

      Sure, but it’s freshman year, and it’s Joyce!

    2. Heavensrun

      Hey, remember, Billifer’s in play as well. Maybe we can go for three.

    3. Laura

      Mike would have two nickels.
      …And then somebody’s mom would have two nickels.

      >;-}

      1. Aura

        I like to assume that it’s people’s mothers who are paying Mike a nickel for sleeping with them

        1. morleuca

          This was always my assumption as well. I like to think he collected the nickles to both buy fast food during peak rush, and to fill a sock to beat idiots with.

        2. clif

          It’s nice that there are people here who get Mike.

    4. Yumi

      This is a different calendar year. Same school year, though, which is a narrower time frame!

  21. StClair

    ahahaha
    god I’m dying 😀

    1. Dante

      You and me both, fam.

  22. Doopyboop

    How very heterosexual of her.

    1. Amós Batista

      I’m worried she didn’t say “no homo”

      1. Doopyboop

        Say psyche right now!!

    2. Steamweed

      Dunno. I’m starting to suspect that one of them might be a teensy bit gay for the other.

      1. Doopyboop

        I won’t believe it until they pop out of the internet, grab my face to maintain eye contact and declare “Username Doopyboop, we feel an attraction to each other.” And even then, my guts gonna say ‘maybe’.

  23. DailyBrad

    I mean, she DID say she wanted to see Dorothy have sex, so like, we’re not even deviating far from that here. There’s no wholly hetero explanation here.

    1. Steamweed

      Yeah! Instead of Walky and Dorothy, it’s Joe and Dorothy. Much more educational for Joyce.

  24. 1150

    further proof of the autistic wlw flirting buff

  25. Dara

    JESUS WILLIS

    C’MON, MAN

    xD xD xD xD xD xD xD xD xD xD

    1. Dara

      if this whole sequence turns out to be somebody’s dream sequence I am gonna laugh like a hyena at the grade AAAAAAAAA++++ trolling xD

      1. Thing2

        It better not be!

      2. Nymph

        It can’t be, dreams are teal.

      3. cain

        This has been way too embarrassing, linear, and sensical to be one of Willis’s dream sequences IMO

  26. IntangibleMatter

    Is this real life or Dorothy’s eternal nightmare I genuinely cannot tell at this point

    1. ZombieKyrik

      Why not both?

    2. OngoingConversation

      Is this the real bi-fe?
      Is this just fantasy?
      Caught in a landslide
      Of this “hetero”-sexuality

      1. Yak

        Open your thighs,
        Look into her eyes and seeeeeee

        I’m just a poor girl,
        I need no sympathy
        ‘Cause I’m little het, bit homo
        Easy come, easy go

        Any way that Joyce goes
        Doesn’t really matter to meeeeeeeeeee
        To me

    3. Throwatron

      she’s a gifted kid, life has literally always been her eternal nightmare

      1. Steamweed

        Oy veh if that ain’t truth, nothing is.

  27. Sirksome

    This is fine. I’ve been told from a very credible source that best friends can make out platonically. They’re allowed to bang like once. Joyce is just considering cashing her’s in.

    1. Steamweed

      Very credible. Good advice source. Best role-model for first times.

  28. Serendipity

    joyce i dont know how to tell you that that is not a straight thought

    1. NGPZ

      Yeah like what would Dorothy be walking her through copulating Joe like she’s teaching her how to use GitHub Desktop or something XD

      1. Risky

        You can be me, I’ll be Joe. Joe-yce.

      2. Steamweed

        She just wants Dorothy to be her GitHub Copilot during the Sexing-Of-Joe. Is that so bad?

    2. Laura

      She’s just not thinking straight…

      1. NGPZ

        XD *rimshot*

        1. Laura

          Hur hur…

          “rim shot”

  29. HueSatLight

    Being rewarded for her honesty with ironic punishment from a trickster god.

    1. Deanatay

      His name is Willis, and you praise Him by damning Him.

      This is The Way.

      1. clif

        Deanatay has spoken!

  30. CitrineMonster

    if they kiss i will genuinely be irritated because holy HELL i want joe/joyce to succeed. theyve been my fave pair ever since the first mike date ?

    1. Laura

      Well, Joe was rooting for Joyce and Roz to make out together, earlier this school year…

    2. ian livs

      *If* Joyce/Dorothy happens, I really hope it’s when both of them are single or (here’s hoping) after they’ve gotten agreement for nonmonogamy with their preexisting partners. If it happens this way, it’d just… really suck. Hoping it won’t since Dorothy *just* had a “is semi-accidentally sending thirst traps to my bestie cheating?” freakout but. well. it ain’t called Smarting of Age

      (Either way: yeah, I’ve had a soft spot for Joe/Joyce for a long time too–I just really like the interesting sides they bring out in each other. So I’m hoping whatever happens will happen in a way that hurts people the least possible)

      1. Coatl

        It’s good that most people are aware that this could have happened under other circumstances.

        The bad thing is, what will be the solution to this whole mess?

      2. TGS

        Full agreement. I think Joyrothy could be a really great couple if they came at it from a good place. But they both are not in a good enough place to actually work.

      3. peng

        hooray 🙂

        1. peng

          wait sorry wrong comment i didnt mean hooray at u being irritated lol

      4. GholaHalleck

        Dottie’s the Michael Jordan of destroying relationships, so it could go either way.

        1. Taffy

          What relationship has she destroyed?

        2. Bittersweet

          Mostly her own lol. Her track record gets spotty when she tries to break up other people, that’s actually Joyce’s hidden talent (/j).

          I’m like 99.9% sure this is going to be what leads to the downfall and permanent shuttering of Dorothy/Walky.

        3. GholaHalleck

          To be fair, she’s only tried to break up walky/lucy and joe/joyce, and she succeeded with walky. She’s in the 9th inning for joe/joyce with a runner on second atm.

        4. AK

          She did not succeed with Walky. He screwed that one up his own self. In combination with his parents.

      5. ScienceOfFantasy

        Fortunately or unfortunately, storytelling law demands the outcome that is most damaging is also the most interesting, so something HAS to happen here that will hurt one of them, both of them, and/or one or both of their partners. There’s just no way of getting out of this unscathed– might as well swing for the fences and have them do something they can’t take back.

    3. Amós Batista

      Oh, that’s almost in the beginning of DoA.

    4. Rabbit

      If they kiss/cheat here I’m bowing out. I’m already on the fence because this whole shit, is making me mad uncomfortable. I hate cheating/cheating adjacent plotlines in the shit I read/watch.

      Also knowing that Willis planned to torpedo Joe/Joyce basically as soon as they got together for Dotty/Joyce has put a pretty bad taste in my mouth in general.

  31. mindbleach

    Dorothy, you fuck that girl right now.

    1. Kim

      +1!

      1. BarerMender

        Seconded!

    2. Opus the Poet

      I’m reminded of a certain mother from Parent’s Day 1st semester saying almost the same thing to her son…

      1. Deanatay

        Yeah, you do realize you’re quoting Ethan’s mom, right?

        1. mindbleach

          Regarding the same girl!

          Joyce Brown: parentally-approved fuckability.

  32. Sirksome

    This isn’t fair to Joe! The only way to make this right is to have Danny help him get a load off as well!

    1. AGV/Ruby

      Walky who?

      1. Drew Hargrave

        A+ comment

        1. Li

          I mean, I think Sirksome picked Danny because there have been a few tease-y strips about their friendship also being very close / borderline romantic, like Dorothy asking Joe if Danny knows he’s being “cheated on” re: Joe hanging out with Jacob.

          Joe/Walky doesn’t have any of that sorta dynamic, and indeed I think the closest Walky comes to having a friend one could tease him about finally ~going there~ with is Jennifer.

        2. Sirksome

          That is why I said Danny. I guess Walky does qualify in that he is Dorothy’s boyfriend but he doesn’t have nearly the same level of emotional connection as Joyce and Dorothy have to match. It’s maybe played out and slightly sexist to say Walky needs guy friends but I’d just appreciate a truly close friend he hasn’t dated at this point. Is that really Jennifer? Is Jennifer, Walky’s best friend?

        3. clif

          Well the reasonable candidates are Dorothy, Sal, Lucy, Joyce, Booster, Jason and Jennifer. So yeah, I’m going to say Jennifer.

        4. Li

          Walky missed his chance to have an epic hatefuck with Mike, but maybe he and Danny could cut out the middle man re: Walky dating Danny’s exes!

        5. Li

          (Also no, I agree that Walky could use a guy-friend. Variety is the spice of life!!)

        6. thejeff

          Jennifer is not his friend. She’s his almost-sister. Very different.

  33. Danae Jay, Local Gay

    Oh that’s gotta feel like a knife in the heart

  34. bo

    Tim, wish you were born a girl

    wish you were born a girl

    So I could’ve been your boyfriend

  35. AntQueen

    Watching the absolute car crash happening at 4 panels a day is torture in the best possible. Peak soap opera, 10/10 no notes

    1. Nymph

      If you pay $5 you can watch it happen in 8 panels for one day and then you’re back to 4 panels a day but it costs you five bucks.

      1. thejeff

        This is why I keep suggesting the $10 2 day ahead tier. (And then the inevitable $20 3 day tier.)

        1. Sirksome

          What about a $5000 read the entire buffer tier?

        2. clif

          No, at the rate of doubling, that should only get you between 7 or 8 days in advance..

  36. Axel

    This kind of reminds me of her thought in gender studies (right before taking Becky back to her parents’ house)- if they were a husband and a wife they’d have to follow her rules, but since they’d be a wife and wife it opened her mind to other options.

    1. Axel

      *her rules as in Joyce’s, as in the ones of Joyce’s church

    2. bo

      unbelievable coincidence my comment ended up right before yours lmao

  37. Versen

    Giiiiiiirl you can’t just say that

  38. Getsu

    I really hope this isn’t gonna be a cannon moment betraying joe after all the growth he’s had

    1. Laura

      If it’s cannon, then Dorothy’s cannon fodder…

      ;-9

    2. GholaHalleck

      It’s going to be a year of our time watching Joe grit his teeth and eat being miserable so Joyce can be happy, before he explodes and just goes back to being a man whore.

      1. morleuca

        That would not be fun.

  39. RassilonTDavros

    Ha

    Ha ha

    HaHaHAHAHAHAAAAA!

    Damn You Willis!
    You Magnificent Bongo.

  40. justtheletterd

    joyce you are going to kill poor dorothy

  41. Icalasari

    “Why is DoA’s site so slow today? What could POSSIBLY cause this much traffic? Ah, the comic finally loa-Oh. Oh that’s what could cause this much traffic”

    1. Steamweed

      Tomorrow it’s just one panel with D&J kissing, and below are 1,000 comments.

      1. Deanatay

        It’s happened before.

      2. Opus the Poet

        I’m surprised you think so little about the volume of the commentariat.

        1. Steamweed

          Well, sure, 1,000 comments by 12:08 a.m.

      3. mindbleach

        Panel one: kissing.

        Panel two: Joyce face.

        Panel three: kissing.

        1. Steamweed

          Panel four: Dorothy face (close emulation of Joyce Face)

          Panel five: kissing

  42. Zorlo

    At this point all you can do is laugh

  43. TGS

    Of all the cast, Dorothy has been the closest thing to a spirit animal. She is definitely the cast member that I feel the strongest affinity towards. I have been in nearly this exact position (het folks, not queer, but otherwise the same basic gist). And this is fucking killing me. Dotty is doing exactly what she is supposed to do so far. She is being reassuring, and supportive, and is heaping genuine praise on a rival because she just wants Joyce to be happy. Don’t minimize her response to everything so far – just because it is what she is supposed to do doesn’t mean she shouldn’t get some flowers for doing it.

    Proud of her. And my heart breaks for her, too.

    1. cain

      Dorothy is trying SO HARD to be a good friend right now. It’s harsh.

      1. AK

        It’s honestly incredibly sweet, but so so rough for her.

  44. MissKellie

    Okay, can a playlist for friends be straight? Sure. Is this one? G-d no. Gotta admire Dotty ability to add song after song and not notice any commonalities here. We love a disaster bisexual or three.

    1. Rosstifer

      Next up on the playlist; ‘More Than A Friend’ by GIRLI.

      1. OBBWG

        “I Am the Walrus”
        “Fat Bottom Girls”
        “Yellow Submarine”
        What does this mean?

    2. Thag Simmons

      We are admittedly only two songs deep. Maybe this isn’t a representative sample

      1. cain

        Two of the more explicitly romantic Paramore songs, though. “All I Wanted Was You” followed by “My Heart” is a telling place to start.

        1. a/snow/mous/e

          Yeah… she’s definitely thinking about being Joyce’s paramour right now.

  45. TrueVCU

    Dorothy is going to have a world-historical crashout after this

  46. Qube

    well hey if you can spare like fifteen minutes

  47. Corey C.

    Well, now Dotty knows how Becky felt when she confessed her romantic desire for Joyce… except I think this is even worse than that situation, because Joyce’s innocent praise consistently has a double meaning for a girl questioning her own sexuality and beginning to crush on her bestie. One or two situations/compliments on their own can easily be seen as just Joyce feeling comfortable around Dorothy, but stacked together in such a short time period as this, I’m really surprised Dotty hasn’t just screamed “Joe will never love you like I love you” and then pull a Becky and kiss Joyce right then and there.

    I applaud Dorothy’s self control, but DAMN, she needs to get out of there RIGHT NOW before she does something she regrets.

    1. Coatl

      YES… If there’s one thing that has left me with a great fear, it’s that my perception of Dorothy might change. (And believe me, I don’t want that to happen)

      And it’s true that the way Joyce is expressing herself can be easily misinterpreted…

      No… I’m sorry, but this ship is screwing Dorothy up in the worst way.

      1. PB

        THIS. This into the sky.

      2. Strain of Thought

        It’s hard not to see these developments as just Dorothy recapitulating her villain origin story from the Walkyverse. Dorothy being one of the good guys has always been an aberration. That echo of fate from another reality has always whispered that Dorothy would lose everything she thought mattered and then decide to take it out on everyone around her.

        1. Coatl

          I’m aware of the Walkyverse, and yes, I’ve always seen that the hatred directed at Dorothy here has often been unfair, and it seems they’re now looking for ways to make that hatred manifest even more strongly.

          Now, the fear is latent, but believe me, I hope that this “curse of hatred” against Dorothy here is broken.

          Dreaming is free.

        2. Steamweed

          I have not read the other Walkyverse stories. I started with DoA exactly on day one, due to a friend’s recom. I’ve been watching it all with unclouded eyes. 🙂

        3. Li

          FWIW Strain’s take on the arc isn’t universal. Every time I see someone describe Dorothy’s villain turn like this, I’m so startled.

          She was being manipulated by the Head Alien, who convinced her Joyce was going to kill Walky, and when she came back he had literally possessed her body and was forcing her to do things, and then she got rescued/redeemed, and Willis paired her off with “Walky and Joyce’s son from the future”, who had come back in time for reasons, and who Willis described as “super into Dorothy for some reason, read into that all you want.”

          Like. I’m trying to think of a more unfair description of a minor antagonist, and I keep coming up with “listing the things Angel did in Season 2 of Buffy while neglecting to mention Angelus”.

        4. Strain of Thought

          I’ll be honest, a lot of my memory of that arc is based on a very brief, possibly in-character recap Willis put somewhere or other that I read aaaaaaages ago and have no idea where to find again. The abbreviated recap may have painted Dorothy as way more out to get everyone than the actual comic’s slow updates showed playing out over time, and what with limited access to the Joyce & Walky archives it wasn’t a story I re-read repeatedly. I tried to keep up with the Walkyverse re-release but fell off of it somewhere in the middle; I really ought to go back and try reading Joyce & Walky all in one go.

        5. Strain of Thought

          Mostly I just remember villain Dorothy having *really* crazy murderface expressions.

        6. Li

          She did! But IIRC all when she was possessed, so it wasn’t really her making the faces. ?

          I’ll extend you the same olive branch tho, I’ve only read through the whole thing once. ?

        7. clif

          Okay, but the thing is that Willis is exploring the same characters in different combinations and roles than he did in the Walkyverse. There Dorothy had a villain arc where under the Head Alien’s influence she tried to kill Joyce so she could have Walky again. In DOA Walky gets the villain arc where under Raidah’s influence he tries to murder Joyce so he can have Dorothy again.

      3. GholaHalleck

        Honestly, if she breaks away, I’ll have far more respect for Dottie as a character.

        If she goes for it, I get to keep wearing my “I was right, she’s a creeper!” Crown though.

        I guess it’s win/win for me.

        1. Rabbit

          Honestly when this comic started, these two were my favorites.

          I even shipped them a bit before Willis introduced Joe/Joyce (which i thought was a pipe dream I’d never get in DOA)

          It feels like Willis hates people who are fans of Joe lowkey. He outright admitted he had plans to nuke Joe/Joyce from the jump of their plotline.

          But as Dorothy developed more, I liked the direction of her character less and less. Culminating in the laundry room/overinvolvement plotlines.

          Doubling up during the whole discussion with Joe, revealing she was denying her feelings because it was the only way that she wouldn’t be an awful person. Which sucks, but it still means what she was doing was kind of awful.

          And now this, which is skirting too close to cheating, for me, personally.

  48. Grayfinity

    Poor Dorothy. I’m cry. ?

  49. darkoneko

    -what-

  50. MissKellie

    Also probably a great time to ask about why Walky got a bunch of spicy pictures that you didn’t, Joyce. Kinda unfair when you think about it. You’re her best friend and its a little rude that she’d exclude you from that smh fr fr.

    1. V98

      Dorothy’s gonna grit her teeth, get through the rest of this, and then cry her eyes out in her dorm for the rest of the night, trying not to think about what Joe is doing with her everything.

      1. V98

        Wait shit this was supposed to be an original comment, not a reply!

        NOOOOOOO

        1. Crow

          You have failed to comment properly. Never show your face here again.

      2. GholaHalleck

        Walky’s getting a Joyce wig, it’ll all work out.

        1. Steamweed

          “Time for apology sex again!”
          “Okay, but why the blonde wig and Carla-made shower jug shoes?”
          “No reasons in particular. Just shut up and put ’em on.”
          “Well all right you talked me into it.”

        2. MissKellie

          Walky, the only way to keep your girl is transition. Search your heart, you know it to be true.

        3. Steamweed

          Walky-transition is one step closer to Sal-presentation. Which means Dorothy gets one step closer to Sal-nomming. I approve of this progress. Not sure Sal does, though. But maybe a quick and totally-impersonal Danny-Dorothy-Sal threesome could evolve with some nudging.

        4. Effie

          Walky has a delectable feminine energy

        5. Steamweed

          Walky being the feminine twin, and Sal being the masculine twin?

        6. cain

          DoA adaptation of Twelfth Night, here we come.

        7. Steamweed

          The DoA cast doing any Shakespeare would be a joy to read. We even got a pair o’ twins: Booster and Charlie.

        8. Rabbit

          Rather not market a black girl as masculine in general. Sal is very much just atypically feminine.

        9. Nymph

          “You still have time to realize your full potential.”

          https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-14/02-its-the-love-i-havent-got/pacing-2/

        10. Dante

          Walky had been giving me the HMMMMs ever since he was teasing Danny at roller derby

          ………… And then that strip gave me the full “oh if it happened I’d love it”

        11. Dante

          Estrogen could save them both

        12. BarerMender

          “You silver-tongued devil.”

  51. BBCC

    I predicted last night that this strip would set the comment section on fire (as in, get lots of comments).

    Not even 100 in an hour and I am genuinely surprised.

    1. Coatl

      This could cause chaos…yes.

      But as disturbing as this may seem, we shouldn’t take things for granted immediately.

    2. Leon

      This is dangerously close to the Joyce/Becky kiss setup. Given Joyce’s anxiety and sexual issues, her candid statement here is unexpected (saying it sober at least) at the same time it isn’t. There’s a level of security and trust exclusive to Dorothy. Lines are continuing blurring.

      I love these two together.

      1. Queen Anthai

        Oh jeez this’ll break Becky’s heart a little if it happens

        1. GholaHalleck

          I remember the sad Dina preview art…

          None of this is going to end well.

          Really, Joe doesn’t deserve this.

          Walky *might* deserve this.

        2. Bittersweet

          I don’t think Walky deserves this, but he does deserve the right to grow a spine and stand up to Dorothy about toying with his emotions. I’ve written a lot about how their relationship has been really uneven and he’s been at the mercy of her whims basically the entire time. Like, I feel like anybody whose partner has done to them what Dorothy has done to Walky would have a very justified crash out.

          Tbh, I don’t ship Dorothy and Joyce, especially not like this, but I’ll be happy if it gets me Walky/Amber (I’ll also be equally happy if Dorothy shuts Joyce down here and we get Dorothy/Amber and Walky/Self-Esteem.)

        3. Throwatron

          if it’s a polycule I would think we’d almost definitely get Amber>>WalkyDorothy>>Amazi-Girl, that feels like what the set-up has been

        4. Throwatron

          ohhhh I did not think my formatting through here

        5. morleuca

          I like these four together. That’d be nice

        6. Steamweed

          I would not mind seeing an Amazi-Girl/Amber/Dorothy/Walky foursome. 😀

        7. Dante

          I’d legit cheer for it like, A Lot

    3. Thag Simmons

      I mean this doesn’t really represent a massive leap in terms of how gay these two have been

    4. Li

      Personally just completely exhausted from people feeling like they just need to let us all know that Joyce is straight and can’t possibly mean anything she’s saying and it’s annoying / wrong / failing at reading comprehension to giggle and kick my feet about how suggestive this sequence has been so, you know, I’m keeping it to myself.

      1. Leon

        I feel you. Personally, it’s been nice to give actual analysis of this storyline and showcase how deliberate the writing and setup is.

        1. Li

          Sure. I wouldn’t still be reading comments if some comments weren’t still worth it.

          I also wouldn’t have said anything if BBCC hadn’t asked; I feel like I’ve made my point about the hostility re: this ship too many times already. But I also doubt I’m the only one sitting things out specifically due to the anticipated bloodbath.

      2. Throwatron

        wait what the fuck, people have been thinking joyce is straight?

        1. Rosstifer

          Yeah, during the laundry session people were DESPERATELY arguing that everything was platonic, and that both Dorothy and Joyce are straight.

        2. BarerMender

          The Voice of God Himself has said “Joyce is canonically straight.”

        3. Pergola

          And a corner of Willis’ brain is saying “Yeah, right”.

        4. Li

          Literally where lmao.

        5. Nymph

          I can say Willis said things too, watch!

          Word of Willis is that bi awakenings will continue until morale improves! (But I have proof)

          https://bsky.app/profile/damnyouwillis.bsky.social/post/3lk7n2s3ejc2w

          Morale is at an all-time low, ipso facto, more bi awakenings for the masses.

        6. Li

          Oh my god you were being sarcastic.

          I AM SORRY BARERMENDER. The Poe’s Law is too strong around here, and Word of God usually means the creator, it was entirely too easy to take you at seemingly face value but I get what you were trying to do now.

      3. thejeff

        The scenario is definitely deliberately suggestive, but I’m not at all sure Joyce realizes she isn’t straight or that Dorothy isn’t or what she’s doing here.

        I don’t think she’s even as far along as Dorothy denying she was bi because of what it would mean about her actions.

        1. Li

          I’m not saying everyone should agree Joyce isn’t straight. I’m saying that the folks who keep responding with “Joyce is straight and it’s ridiculous of anyone to think otherwise” to every person who says anything about thinking this scenario is cute or suggestive or whatever is, at best, annoying.

          Especially because they’re rarely that polite about it.

        2. cain

          I do think Joyce is straight, but it’s the “and it’s ridiculous to think otherwise” where I disagree. She’s… I’d say she’s queerbait, but that would be an implication about Willis’s writing, not about the character’s behavior. (Willis is absolutely not queerbaiting us; they’re smart enough to see that it’s way messier if half the cast IS queer.) If lesbians were dogs, Joyce is Pavlov’s bell.

        3. Li

          Oh there used to be a fair few people who would also openly respond to any and all winky moments between Joyce and Dorothy with “lmao, love when Willis queerbaits the fools who think anything could ever possibly happen here”.

          Less since “Dorothy is bi actually” became text, though!

          Also let’s be clear about a few things:

          1. I’m not complaining about people thinking Joyce is straight or thinking this is all just* bait, I’m complaining about folks who say those things while sneering down their noses at anyone who disagrees. It’s the rudeness, not the opinions.
          2. I’m not calling for anyone to be silenced, which is apparently a thing I should explicitly say. (I would’ve thought that, since I’m neither Willis nor a mod, my lack of ability to silence anyone would be obvious, but. Covering my bases, heh.)

          More than anything else I’ve been trying to step back from commenting because I realized I was getting entirely too invested in the back-and-forth. My s.o. was like, “I don’t understand where you find the energy,” and like. Very true! I think this comment section is a LOT more worth reading and engaging than 99.9% of comment sections on the internet, but at the end of the day, I shouldn’t be this absorbed by arguments online about Dorothy.

          It all goes in cycles anyway. Sometimes it’s fun to engage! Sometimes it’s really really draining.

          I wish the shippiest strips with these two were one of the times when it’s fun, because I’ve quietly shipped these two for like twelve years… but I know some folks could say similar about Joe/Joyce. I wish we were all kinder to each other.

          (I started with Shortpacked personally, so my oldest Willis ship is PROBABLY Leslie/Robin. Aha. Hahaha. Hahaha. Though there is something really nice and, I would bet, cathartic for Willis about getting to write Leslie as finding Robin’s antics annoying after her deep devotion to someone who mostly didn’t treat her very well in the last universe, not unlike Joyce’s absolute indifference to Danny.)

        4. Li

          *just bait

          Honestly kids today have no respect for subtext. Either something is explicit unambiguous text where they get their preferred pairing saying “I am [label] and what I feel for you is both romantic and sexual” “Me too, let us now smooch” OR they roll their eyes and grumble about queerbaiting.

          It’s not queerbait unless it’s explicitly and maliciously milking you for queer engagement while reassuring all the Straights that their favorite characters aren’t gay, okay.

          Not all subtext is trying to rob you of #representation.

        5. Dante

          Li, you’re a bright spot of sanity amidst the storm. Please keep going

        6. Li

          Aw. ? That’s very kind of you to say.

        7. thejeff

          Sure, I think we’re pretty close to the same page, though I think I’m more on the “Joyce isn’t aware” page – whether of not being straight herself or of what’s going on with Dorothy and how her comments are hitting her.

          I was kind of trying to peel apart the various components of what you were responding to: Joyce’s sexuality, her intent in this conversation and Willis intending it to be suggestive. All of those are mostly independent.

        8. Li

          They are, but the people making the comments I was complaining about aren’t making any distinctions between them, and also keep insisting on taking ‘shippy comments in the worst possible light.

          It’s been an awful lot of “everyone who’s enjoying this sequence must actually want Walky and Joe to get their hearts broken” when the comments that mention the boys at all have pretty much all been either cheering for polyamory or feeling bad for them.

          It just kiiiiinda feels like if I wanna leave a top level comment right now, I need to include a bunch of disclaimers reiterating yet again boringly that I don’t actually think Joyce is saying anything suggestive on purpose, that I don’t actually want Dorothy to kiss her without getting clearance from Joe and Walky and also making sure to warn Joyce in advance, that I actually know there are plenty of heterosexual explanations for Joyce’s behavior, so on and so forth.

          Can’t do a simple comment referencing a well-established meme, or else I’m adding to the perception of people who like this ship as being weird heartless perverts who just want The Gay to happen, and boy let me tell you, I didn’t enjoy hearing that about my m/m ships when I was younger, and it stings a heck of a lot more hearing it about f/f ships now. I feel horrible for queer kids growing up right now. Bitty Li had enough guilt and shame to contend with as a teenager, fujoshi discourse would have destroyed them.

          (Also, for the record, using a reclaimed Japanese fan term that is fully neutral in Japan and just means “fan of slash ships” to specifically mean “gross pervert with no boundaries who’s appropriating gay culture” is racist and shitty, so if anyone reading this comment hadn’t thought through the particulars of fujoshi discourse, you know, maybe sit and think for a little bit about why it made sense to you to co-opt a Japanese word you didn’t understand to derogatorily hypersexualize and denigrate something. 90s hysteria about how all anime is porn but pretend it’s woke, I guess.)

  52. AGV/Ruby

    I think that they’ll end up kissing and Dorothy is going to freak out. Joyce won’t at first (getting sloppy with your bestie is ok, no?), until she tells anyone else and that’ll make her realize what’s going on.

    Bonus points if Joyce chases after Dorothy yelling “Dorothy, wait! I thought that making out with your friends was ok??’

    1. Regret

      And of course is right outside the door as this happens, in a suit as requested, about to knock, with flowers in his hands. Last panel is a split panel: Close up of his face showing complete and utter betrayal and the other part is the flowers wilting by the power of symbolism.

      1. Regret

        *Joe

        Joe is right outside the door.

        1. Nymph

          I checked and he’s not actually. No one was there. Rude prank.

    2. Steamweed

      “Jennifer said it was! We can even hanky-panky once and it’s okay!”

      As they both go walking down the hallway.

      With lots of raised eyebrows from lots of onlookers all the way.

      1. Steamweed

        (also with lots of bets being settled)

  53. Gwen

    I had a moment of thinking ‘well at this point Joyce has to know what’s going on and what she’s saying, this is stretching things with how much this dialogue is targeted to torment Dorothy’.

    And then I remembered that I’ve had conversations with straight friends as a closeted baby bi with almost as much subtext that I tried to appear very normal about, so either this is a thing that actually happens or… Well, hm, missed out on some opportunities at the time.

  54. Reltzik

    Such a sincere and unadulterated friendship. Just gals being pals.

    1. Laura

      …about to be a little more adulterated…

      1. AGV/Ruby

        Badum-tss

  55. PB

    Dorothy needs to confront this for sure, but Joyce needs to address some stuff too. It’s true that Becky may have skewed her ideas on how close female friendships are supposed to be, But at this point, the calls are coming from inside the house.

    1. Strain of Thought

      I keep wondering how Joyce could possibly turn out to have bisexual feelings this late in the game, after her already admitting to having soul-searched over whether she could possibly be attracted to Becky, and having said that if she could have loved any woman it *would* have been Becky so that she knew she was definitely 100% straight. It feels very silly to rehash this question. But I have at last identified a single major distinction in their relationships that might make a difference: Becky *constantly* pushes Joyce’s boundaries and tests what she can get away with. As much as Joyce deeply cares about Becky, on a certain level it may be that Joyce never feels like she can fully relax and feel fully safe around Becky, because Becky loves to do stuff to get a rise out of her. And that *is* the kind of thing that can prevent someone from being able to experience attraction. Meanwhile, for Joyce, Dorothy is the epitome of “safe”.

      1. Laura

        Well put.

      2. Doopyboop

        Plus, Becky doesn’t represent every single woman in the world. She wasn’t attracted to Becky, but that doesn’t mean she cannot ever be into women. It’s sweet that she said if she could have loved any woman it’d be Becky, but that doesn’t make it true. I mean, I love my best friends but I don’t _love_ them, and that’s despite being attracted to any gender.

      3. Li

        I mean, people were also saying “she can’t be bi, it contradicts this one moment from a decade ago” about Dorothy until like two months ago.

        Willis is allowed to decide characters have grown.

        1. Dante

          It’s also the reason very delicious when the freshly 18 years old declares at the start of college she:

          – Has everything figured out
          – Including herself
          – Everything will go as planned, super under control, seriously she’re SO going to tame this beast in the required time and not get even a little fucked up on the process.

          The Damocles Sword hanging upon those characters always has an “Now with Extra Hubris” engraving on the blade. It’s nbd, right?

        2. Li

          For sure for sure.

          Also taking this opportunity to clarify my previous comment: “Willis is allowed to decide their characters have changed” or “Willis has allowed to decide their characters have become more self-aware”.

          I do think that a character discovering they were wrong about their sexuality is fundamentally character growth but it didn’t sit well with me that I’d implied being bi was more growth than being het.

        3. Dante

          No, no, I absolutely get you.

          I like a Tumblr post a lot that goes like. If you actually for realsies ponder yourself, and feel like exploring these thoughts whether in your mind or IRL, and through self-knowledge then go “yeah actually I’m cis” (or straight!) that’s ALSO growth.

          They called it “Cis+” and it’s cool as fuck.

        4. Li

          Yes. Cis+ (and het+) are good actually!!

      4. Throwatron

        holy fuck you’re so exactly right

      5. Jeff K!

        Don’t forget, Joyce sees Becky as her sister, and has done so for over a decade.
        As a teen I asked a certain girl from my church that I held a crush for a long time if she wanted to go out sometime, and she said she basically saw me as a brother, and didn’t want to mess that up.

        We’re still friends, even though we both left that church.

      6. BarerMender

        They grew up together. Joyce loving Becky wouldn’t be much different from loving her sister. I’m surprised Becky wouldn’t feel the same.

        1. Doopyboop

          Becky is also an only child and likely wouldn’t really know what loving someone like a sister is like. I say this as an only child who ALSO doesn’t really know what sibling love feels like.

      7. cain

        I hadn’t considered this angle, thank you!

      8. Nymph

        I mean, sure all of that, but also Joyce grew up in a cult religion that told her any urges she had in that direction would send her directly to hell and she’s still unpacking a lot of the in-built trauma from that religion.

        I assure you, it’s very possible to think you’ve fully considered your sexuality and nope definitely straight, only to find out how wrong you were a decade or more later, even. Joyce has never had the space or freedom to actually investigate her feelings on this matter outside “Am I attracted to Becky right this minute?”

        1. Crow

          Yeah and she’s also, like, 18? I wouldn’t expect any 18 year old to fully have their identity figured out

  56. Lilliam

    You don’t say

  57. Joy

    ….see, I keep getting told Joyce is hot but now I’m actually starting to see it.

  58. Christron5000

    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH SHI-

  59. LIGHTWEIGHT BAYBEE

    cmon poly ending or arc
    cmon loving poly relationship rep
    (not discounting the relationship sierra has with her people but i literally cannot remember their names rn it’s been so long)

    1. Poskie

      I gotcha! Sierra’s dating Mandy and Grace.

      1. Li

        I think that doesn’t change the fact that their relationship mostly exists off screen, and that a poly relationship among main characters would be different and cooler.

        1. Nymph

          Strongly agree as always.

        2. Li

          ❤️

        3. mindbleach

          Bizarrely rare in fiction. The only example I can name is in the Jenkinsverse. El Goonish Shive feels like it’s actively dodging the question. I don’t even think Homestuck qualified, except maybe post-canon.

          I guess tension is easier to write. ProZD: “And so anime was solved forever!”

        4. Li

          I don’t think it’s just easier to write; I think a lot of times it’s more fun or interesting to the authors to write. Or else the author themself isn’t polyamorous and has trouble getting into the headspace.

          There WAS kind of a weird little Poly Renaissance like ten years ago where a lot of people were suggesting symmetrical poly as the solution to any and all love triangles, and some folks do still do that, but personally I prefer poly that actually takes existing dynamics into account.

          Like, Bella/Jacob/Edward is one love triangle that I do think had symmetrical poly potential, where the second half had a fair bit of belligerent sexual tension!

          But Sora/Riku/Kairi? You’d have to do a lot of legwork to convince me Riku and Kairi are at all into each other that way, and most people who were putting it out into the world didn’t bother, or inexplicably treated Kairi like the bridge that Bella would be, when obviously the bridge should be Sora.

          (Disclaimer: obviously just my opinions.) (For comparison: Joyce would be the bridge for Joyce/Joe/Dorothy, to such an extent that I’d prefer Joe and Dorothy be written as just friends, and Dorothy would be the bridge for Joyce/Dorothy/Walky to the point where Walky made a face when Dorothy tried to suggest it during afterglow.)

        5. Li

          NOT WEIRD BECAUSE IT WAS POLY, just like. I think prior to this solution, the thing folks did with similar energy was “pair the spares, no matter where”.

          That sort of “solution” with Kingdom Hearts might see Sora try to come out to Kairi, only for her to say, “What? Oh, congratulations! I’ve actually been dating Xion for six months.”

        6. mindbleach

          Weird modifying renaissance the way lesbian modifies love.

          At time of comment.

        7. Li

          Exactly!

          Like, it became a big trend, and a lot of extremely similar bland fics were produced, and then it died out a little.

          So if anything I agree with you even more: I would LOVE to see more well-written poly, especially poly that embraces the messy potential instead of just making everyone magical beings of perfect love and understanding who feel exactly the same amounts of romantic and sexual attraction for all parties.

          We definitely do need some overly perfect polyamory too, to help counter the pervasive cultural narrative that it’s inherently awful, but I want some “poly couples mean MORE chances for miscommunication and sitcom shenanigans” too. ?

        8. Erik

          “Joyce would be the bridge for Joyce/Joe/Dorothy, to such an extent that I’d prefer Joe and Dorothy be written as just friends”

          Yeah, if they went poly I’d see Joyce as a hinge. It could work, given that both Joe and Dorothy REALLY want Joyce to be as happy as possible.

    2. kaleidoqueer

      loving polyam relationship ftw!!

    3. Gnomedeplume

      Two hands
      Everybody got
      Two hands

      1. BarerMender

        It’s the feet that get in the way.

    4. Carla's #2 Fan

      Poly is the clear answer to me, but I’ll be satisfied with anything that keeps Joe and Joyce together

  60. Christron5000

    *Dorothy’s subconscious, which reconfigured her entire sense of self-worth and post-college plans after one person pointed out that President’s tend to be war criminals, hearing Joyce say this after grappling with her bisexuality and Joyce’s relationship with Joe for the past couple of weeks*

    “This little maneuver’s gonna cost us 51 years…”

  61. Florence

    Gosh dangit Joyce!

    1. Florence

      (I say all of this like I don’t love the chaos)

  62. TheFlamingonator

    “Say whaaaaaat?”

    1. Bash

      There is no heterosexual explanation.

      1. Rosstifer

        There has never been a heterosexual explanation for these two.

  63. peng

    hooray 🙂

  64. SvenTS

    Ok Joyce isn’t *that* cruel so she really doesn’t realize what she’s doing.

    Poor Dorothy.

  65. Tama

    Y’all want the gay to happen SO much that you do not care that people get hurt to make it happen. The number of people I see who *want* these two to cheat on their partners is sickening.

    1. Coatl

      Rest assured that if this ship had appeared under other circumstances, there would not be as much conflict and chaos as there is now.

    2. Laura

      ?Guilty as charged! ?

      As Amber would say, “I’m a trash goblin who craves mess!”
      (Or words to that effect…)

      1. Leon

        Yes, these deviants should be ashamed! *Grabs popcorn*

        1. Laura

          *Passes the popcorn box back*…
          ???

        2. Dante

          May I have some as we keep talking about how morally bankrupt this all is? The flavors enhance each other

        3. Florence

          *random goblin noises that are in agreement*

        4. Laura

          Oh, sure. Take your pick. I got chocolate, caramel, salty, chili, angst…

        5. Florence

          *takes the caramel with my little goblin claws, there are sounds that vaguely make you think the creature has said thank you*

        6. Laura

          *growls “Welcome” through six-inch green fangs….*

          😉

          ??????

        7. NGPZ

          mmmm, I’ll have some dark chocolate, thank you! ^^

        8. NGPZ

          heck let’s fire up the popcorn machine, popcorn for everyone!!!! ^^

        9. Laura

          *Plays Pop Corn on the hacked Moog Synthesizer..*

    3. RocketRelm

      You’re saying it’s sickening as if there are real people that are really going to be hurt for our entertainment, instead of characters in a comic called Dumbing Of Age explicitly written to present characters making dumb decisions for our entertainment.

      1. NGPZ

        this gonna be like the Totally Normal™ comments on the doing laundry strips all over again aint it?

      2. MissKellie

        So much of this. I feel like a ton of people forget that these characters don’t really say things or have feelings. A the end of the day, these are lines on a page drawn by a wonderful and dedicated enby. Side note, this is why the argument of, “oh, there is a possible het reading of every single interaction” cause, like, then Willis only has so many panels in a year and an authors gotta make choices

      3. Tama

        Another response down below saying, “Are you aware that it’s fiction?” What an empty deflection of a response. No shit, it’s fiction, but *wanting* this with such fervor is demented. I don’t watch war movies specifically to see the good guys get their limbs blown off as they scream in pain and watch all their friends die. I don’t watch invasion movies to cheer on the aliens as they massacre civilians. I say it’s what they cheer for and the why of things that is problematic. The same way that people cheer on NTR stories *because* they’re NTR stories. I don’t see good things in people like that.

        1. sea salt ice cream sequel

          exactly… naturally, anyone’s interaction with art reflects their moral purity and ethical stances…all those sickos watching horror movies should be thrown in prison. and I don’t even want to start on the people WRITING that stuff. what a scary world we live in!

          (This looks like a miserable way to be, but I guess some people like feeling like they have moral authority & casting judgement on others? It reminds me of something. Can’t quite put my finger on it.)

        2. BarerMender

          I don’t care for horror, but human beings have a craving for intense emotion. It doesn’t have to be a good emotion. Any emotion will do. I nearly hounded myself to death with depression, until I realized I was rolling in it, just because it made me feel something. What always surprises me is that some people are really good at writing it. No, not Stephen King. Fuck him. I mean Robert Bloch. For example. I can’t think of a single idea that would make a horror story. How do they do that?

        3. Taffy

          You say “with such fervor”, but can you give an (1) example of somebody being fervent in the way you describe? You’re passing moral judgement and calling people demented, so it should be easy to come up with a single instance of the behavior you’re sneering down your nose at.

        4. Dante

          I encourage you to look up “Moral OCD”. Living in constant worry of thought crimes, both personal and collective, and on passing judgement based on what only some higher power (or telepaths, like it happens to some atheistic fellas) could ever see because you don’t even act accordingly or anything, is a terrible way to live.

          Just ask Kant. Taken to its logical extreme, that’s how you create a society that doesn’t do good things because they’re on themselves good; but because They Must, No Exceptions, Do The Right Thing (“good” ain’t enough), Or Else.

        5. Tan

          Putting aside the absolute nonsense that is morally judging someone enjoying fictional media that depicts the ‘bad guy’ winning… That’s not even what’s happening here. What people are rooting for is not specifically for Joe and Walky to get cheated on. What people are specifically rooting for is happy gay makeouts between Dorothy and Joyce, with Joe and Walky potentially getting cheated on being ignored collateral damage

          And let me tell you if you have ever enjoyed ANY kind of war movie, even if it is ultimately a just war, you are doing so by ignoring some significant collateral damage. So your point is even more nonsense. Which is quite a feat.

        6. Nymph

          “I don’t watch war movies specifically to see the good guys get their limbs blown off as they scream in pain and watch all their friends die. I don’t watch invasion movies to cheer on the aliens as they massacre civilians.”

          Oh, well if YOU don’t do it then I guess it’s objectively morally terrible. You are, after all, the sole and singular arbiter of what counts as morally good or morally objectionable.

          I cheer when the slasher kills because I know that no one actually died. And I am capable of differentiating reality from fiction. If you’re not, that’s a you problem, and I really think you should unpack it without calling strangers “sickening” for not sharing your hang-ups.

        7. Li

          If you’re like, under 25, I feel sorry for you. I’m sorry the adults in your life have failed you so badly.

        8. Jerach

          The world is absolutely crammed full of real terrifying things to be angry over right now. It’s really not worth it to get worked up over people wanting to see weird messy relationship drama in a comic..

    4. Regret

      Are you aware that this is fiction?

    5. sea salt ice cream sequel

      I was going to say something else but I feel like this has got to be a troll. It’s just a little too on the nose

      1. sea salt ice cream sequel

        nvm lol. sorry you live like this

    6. CJ

      Did you read the same comments I did?
      Most people are like “This is hurting Dorothy so much”, “don’t cheat, get permission”, and “Oh shit, I’d be great but NOT NOW”.

    7. Taffy

      Yeah, all zero of those scumbags oughta be ashamed of themselves.

    8. Queezle

      I would not like it if Joyce and Dorothy did something now. For multiple reasons, I do not enjoy rooting for a relationship that started with cheating. Fictional or otherwise. And I also would not like it if Joyce’s bi awakening would start with cheating. I really do not like the ‘bi person cheats’ trope. It can be done well… but it is far too common for my liking and often plays in to biphobic stereotypes which is why I am warey of it.

      1. thejeff

        Even more I just can’t see it happening. The most I could see is a kiss followed by panicked running away. Neither of them would actually be okay with cheating and Dorothy’s already thinking of basically all of her interactions with Joyce in those terms. Joyce might be tempted here and this might lead to some kind of awakening, but she’s also head over heels for Joe.

        Narratively, I think Joe/Joyce is too key to both of their developments for it to be torpedoed from left field like this.

        If Joyce/Dorothy is coming, I think it’s still a long way off.

        1. HueSatLight

          I don’t think a character showing growth should automatically be rewarded. Buy otherwise I agree.
          It would recontextualize Dorothy asking Walky to cheat on Lucy, from a moment of weakness to the start of a pattern. And I don’t think she’s, as Danny phrased it, a morally bankrupt human being.

        2. HueSatLight

          (don’t read that strip’s comment section, if you don’t want whiplash from the dogpile here)

        3. thejeff

          I don’t think I mean anything about character’s growth needing to be rewarded, more that I think the Joyce/Joe relationship is at a weird narrative place for it to be blown up by something not directly a part of it. They’re still deep in the middle of growing into it. It needs more time to cook.

          Before it blows up, if it does.

      2. Crow

        I would be more concerned about that if Joyce was the comic’s only bi character, but since there are multiple, and at least one has come out as anti-cheating, I think it would just be a story about one bi person cheating, which is realistic. There is probably at least one bi person out there who has cheated.

    9. Rosstifer

      Oh GOD you so so much, Tama.

      1. Rosstifer

        *suck

    10. Gnomedeplume

      Your pectoral muscles
      Relax them

    11. Rabbit

      People mocking you but you’re right lmao. It’s messy and fun and fiction for most people but it’s getting uncomfortably close to cheating for me personally. I don’t think I’d be as grossed out by it if it wasn’t literally the de-facto MC

      Like if Billy was being this messy, I’d probably be able to deal with it better, or even like, Sarah or anyone who isn’t Joyce- mostly because it just feels so out of character for Joyce, to me.

  66. Kim

    ”Would you like it to be?”

    1. Kenny Williams

      Yuuusss

  67. The 25th

    There goes that song choice I was talking about yesterday.

  68. Acher4

    oh ffs

    rofl!!!

  69. Professional asexual

    BRO…. Is Joyce and Dorothy gonna be endgame…?

    1. Steamweed

      I think the fully aware, fully self-referential, and fully interconnected polycule is the endgame.

      1. mindbleach

        Resistance is futile. We will add your biological distinctiveness to the smoochy chart.

        1. Steamweed

          Well damn. Oh heck. Shucks, even. Guess I got no choice.

    2. peng

      the student asked the wiseman bro is joyce and dorothy gonna be endgame and the wiseman said with a chuckle these bongoes are going to be in 500 more relationships before summer vacation. but maybe

    3. Amós Batista

      I don’t know. Perharps in 10 years…

  70. Zamperla

    Claps gently and cheerfully. MESS GREMLIN MESS GREMLIN.

  71. kaleidoqueer

    ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. ohhhhh. this comic is going to wreck me. the sheer cumulative longing in that last panel.

  72. bwooom

    What did she mean by this?

  73. Taigan

    Dorothy: “……hang on, let me turn off this goddamn ironic music first.”

  74. Arianod

    I don’t know what horrible, evil things Dorothy did in a previous life, but they *can’t* have been horrible enough to warrant *this*.

    1. Amós Batista

      I fell so much pity on her ??

  75. BorkBorkBork

    Here’s the crazy thought.

    This entire episode so far has been 100% in Dorothy’s headspace. I mean, we’re seeing Joyce talk about Joyce things, but the perspective so far has been fully on Dorothy, the things that matter to Dorothy, the choices that impacted Dorothy.

    Like, hell, we see Joyce as a tease *because* we know secret Dorothy secrets, and if this was from a Joyce perspective, without that knowledge, it’s be a facepalm-y wild romp of “Joyce Prepares to Perform A Sex!”

    But it’s from Dorothy’s perspective, and Dorothy has *just now* had her orientation thrust from subconscious to conscious thought. Which allows us to see the tension.

    So I want to pose a question for the class here.

    What if (hah, “if”) Joyce is in, essentially, the same exact place that Dorothy was before Joe spoke to her? What if she feels roughly the same, yet has pushed that down into her subconscious? Because religion will do that to you – you’re hit so hard over the head with homosexuality as the “other,” the thing that “people not like me” deal with, their cross to bear, etc. that you take for granted that your feelings must be hetero.

    And theres plenty of things that would support, to Joyce, the mistaken idea that she’s can’t be anything but straight. She felt no romantic attraction to Becky. She’s wild about Joe, and Jacob, and even Ethan, and her “type” has been tall, strong, powerful.

    … so how far into Joyce’s subconscious would these feelings have to be pushed, for her to forget herself and for JOYCE to pull a Becky and make the move here?

    There is zero thought in my mind that Joyce would intentionally cheat on Joe. One of the core things that makes Joyce Joyce, is that she is loyal to her friends, and would never harm them.

    … but we’re talking about self-deception here, and you can tell yourself some crazy things if deep down inside you want to be decieved.

    What happens when “How should I move/pose?” turns into “How should I initiate?” turns into “How do I take off his shirt, now?” turns into “Howwmphummmmm” turns into “Howww is this happening?” tuns into “He… he’d be OK with this…” turns into “holy fuck, Dorothy.”

    1. Florence

      I’m mostly random noises with this plot line but this is really good analysis

    2. OngoingConversation

      I think that’s possible. We’ve already seen Joyce experiencing same-sex attraction (remember the incident with Jennifer’s boobs), and we know she fully adores Dorothy in a definitely not hetero way (hence the laundry). And hearing Jennifer (high queen of repressing bisexuality) talk about how it’s okay to sleep platonically with your bestie, it’s fully possible she might suggest trying som stuff out.
      Now, as an aromantic myself, I’d like to point out that sleeping with your bestie is a perfectly valid option, so long as both parties understand the feelings they have for one another. But that’s clearly not what’s going on here. So honestly, yeah, I don’t think we’re that many strips away from Joyce asking Dorothy to demonstrate. With disastrous results, naturally.

    3. Leon

      I do find this agreeable. I think the current tension is predicated not only by the audience’s knowledge of Dorothy’s feelings but also the nature of Joyce’s behavior when it concerns Dorothy at least since the laundry incident. It’s precisely why people got the idea Joyce was deliberate teasing Dorothy, but I don’t think that’s the case. That incident is when subtext begins to morph into text, and these years of strips just coincidentally coincides with Dorothy’s awakening to her own feeling about Joyce that are now explicit as of this storyline.

      In that this time frame, Joyce becomes more aware of how some things she has said or done can be interpreted as gay or she says something that has “no heterosexual explanation” unbeknownst to herself (Joyce doing something that implicates Dorothy as an object of desire is used as a punchline multiple times): https://linkmix.co/37704477

      That’s all I remember off hand of moments that aren’t in this current storyline, which corroborates the self-deception idea by reference to Jennifer’s. Now you remember how this specific sequence is linked to the laundry and the drinking with Dorothy as round one and two (dumbingofage.com/foureyedblondes – and note how the idea of Joyce not knowing what she’s saying is specifically brought up here, it’s for a reason) that both relate to Joyce’s sexual frustration and anxiety in some revelatory capacity, which Joyce herself does in the story (dumbingofage.com/curating-2/) when she’s commissioning Dorothy to order a list of non penetrative sex acts she should try. “We learned to let each other say yes” by Joyce and we still haven’t gotten to how it relates to what is currently happening. The potential implications (we established Joyce says things that may reveal something about herself she isn’t aware of at this point) of this whole sequence works so well because of this slow build up of Joyce’s increasing escalating admissions that we get no further information on. There’s been about 4 to 5 callbacks in this storyline so far, the last one is this resembling the Joyce/Becky bed situation to a good extent. It’s good writing that shouldn’t be overlooked.

    4. thejeff

      It’s theoretically possible and I definitely agree that Joyce isn’t thinking about this in terms of her being queer and into Dorothy, but I don’t see this going down that path. This strip pretty much shuts that down. She’s telling Joyce not to worry about the very kinds of things that would lead to that kind of escalation.

      1. Leon

        I’m trying to understand what you mean by that, jeff, but don’t really get your objection. Another meaning I get from this strip is Joyce is equating Dorothy with Joe in the framing of the advice and remarking how at ease she’d be if that were the case.

        1. thejeff

          I’m talking about what Dorothy said, not Joyce’s last comment. Dorothy’s response is basically “No, it’ll be fine. You don’t need practical advice on how to do sex, much less practice. Joe’ll be happy because it’s you.”
          It’s hard to shift from that to “I’ll show you what to do”
          Dorothy’s shutting down even the first example step “How should I move/pose?”

          Joyce is definitely saying she’d be more at ease with Dorothy and that’s going to eventually need some unpacking, but she also said “that’s… really a load off”. She’s not going to move back to asking how to go about it.

        2. Leon

          Oh, I get your logic now, you’re talking about the specific scenario Bork wrote and I agree with you. I thought you meant the general idea of it. I think it’s flawed because it presupposes “Joyce must still be in an anxious state” and the physical escalation must have “practice” as a pretext because of the aforementioned. I’m of the opinion Joyce has given the idea an actual run around in her head to the point that kind of self-deception would be more like self-delusion. I say that because the drunk confession and this last admission appear to be things she has given thought to before she vocalized them to Dorothy.

          Currently, the only realistic scenario is Joyce normalizing further physical intimacy with Dorothy by framing it in the way Jennifer did earlier (She even demonstrates this after seeing the titty pic before Jennifer comments) to stave off a sexual identity crisis and lessening a perceived betrayal of her current relationship to act on these desires. That assumes Joyce has actively thought she and Dorothy had a perceivable gay thing going on, which we know she has and we see her deny it’s like that twice. Thinking about it this way, it would give certain moments a different look e.g. Joyce, in a state of arousal after gawking at Joe’s ass, freezes up when Dorothy touches her in the gym room or the face hugging they do to demonstrate non-sexual intimacy that Becky breaks up because it scared her.

    5. Jeff K!

      Wait, that doesn’t read as [i]text[/i] to everyone?
      That’s been my baseline reading of the situation for years.

      If that’s not the baseline understanding for everyone, I can kind of understand some of the “Joyce is clearly straight and doesn’t know what she’s saying” crowd

      1. BorkBorkBork

        I’ll be honest, I can’t look at any of the DOA cast and say that ANY of them are “clearly straight.” Even the clearly straight ones. Those guys just exist in some sort of quantum superposition where they are potentially straight, but haven’t just accidently fallen on the right dude/lady/dinobot yet.

        “What, no way Bork, what about Toedad?”

        Yes even Toedad. Guy had a boner for White American Jesus like you wouldn’t believe. Plus I can think of a few current politicians who he would bend over frontwards for.

        I’m not saying that they all ARE queer – but if you have two vocabulary terms, and one of them has a very narrow, rigid definition, and the other is “literally everything that isn’t the first,” then having someone like Leslie tell the audience “these things are fluctuating and can change,” you’d be an idiot to say that so-and-so MUST be straight.

  76. Taffy

    Y’know, I’m not seeing much talk about Joyce being able to fuck Joe tonight and Dorothy at a later date, after some discussion is had. It’s a little surprising.

    1. eh, whatever

      Polyamory has not yet been invented, despite being mentioned upthread. Come back next year.

      1. Taffy

        It was mentioned, yes, but does not automatically imply the scenario I laid out. Sometimes a person says something and means it verbatim.

  77. chuckroast

    That’s pretty gay, Joyce.

  78. Kyulen

    I’m starting to wonder just how many characters in DoA are bi but either haven’t realized it yet, or only realized it relatively recently.

    1. clif

      You do read this comic don’t you?

    2. Steamweed

      Question not if any characters are bi, but question if any characters are not bi.

      1. Jeff K!

        I’m pretty sure Ethan isn’t bi!

        1. mindbleach

          Him, Sal, and Carla, sharing a cake, for a very small party with a confusing theme.

          Sarah declined the invitation.

        2. Li

          I think my favorite part about this is that Tony wasn’t invited. And I agree, despite how little we’ve seen of him.

          (It’s not that there are no straight guys who would have set Sarah up so considerately or anything, it’s just that exploring queerness in some fashion does tend to involve questioning norms. Tony is so far giving us a gloriously nontoxic flavor of very chill masculine energy, and I would bet at the very least he’s got close friends in the community.)

    3. Pergola

      Somewhere in the future a bi awakening is lurking. For EVERYBODY.

  79. Needfuldoer

    Oh no, Joe’s going to hesitate (because of his experience with Liz) and Joyce is going to interpret that as rejection, isn’t she. 🙁

    1. Daibhid C

      If only Joe and Joyce had demonstrated repeatedly that they’re actually pretty good at talking through this stuff!

    2. V98

      That’s what my money’s on!

      And Dorothy will be there for Joyce. As a friend. To comfort her. Very unlike a vulture circling for carrion.

      1. Rabbit

        This just made me think about what this would read like if Dorothy wasn’t a girl struggling with her sexuality (which makes it more compelling.) and jesus christ yikes.

  80. mysterious cube

    Go on Joyce, ask her why she would love to lie about that

    1. Taffy

      It’s safe to assume Dorothy wants to lie about Joe’s conduct because she really doesn’t like him, for reasons every involved character knows.

      1. thejeff

        That’s a perfectly reasonable and probably true assumption, but her own feelings probably play into it as well. But the first is enough that there’s no reason to ask.

        1. HueSatLight

          When I first read the strip, I was going to link her advising Walky not to have sex with Lucy (“If you’re not ready, you’re not ready”), because she probably has similar feelings now. But I came to this conclusion too.

  81. CianM1301

    Dammit Hayley, you’re not helping!

    1. keet

      goddddd ikr!!

    2. Deanatay

      I don’t know what this is in reference to, so I can only speculate.

      But if it means Hailee Steinfeld is voicing Dorothy in the DoA movie, I’m all in.

      1. Joey245

        Pretty sure they mean Hayley Williams, lead vocalist of Paramore. But Hailee Steinfeld as Dorothy’s voice sounds fitting!

  82. Lysbeth

    It’s just training for the real thing, right?
    No, congrats to Dotty for staying on the straight and narrow. Well, bi and narrow.

  83. It Me JD!

    I felt the aftershocks on that one, it must have been at least a 2.5 on the Kinsey scale.

  84. Dante

    THE ONE DAY I GET HERE LATE AND WHEN I TELL YOU

    THE GASP I GUSP

    I have NO IDEA of what’s gonna happen. None except we’re due for COLLISION COURSE and oh god don’t y’all love trainwrecks because I for one am vibrating out of my gaddang skin here

    1. Steamweed

      When the trolley problem and trainwreck collide.

      1. Pergola

        Also secretary problem.

    2. Li

      Thank you for your relentless good cheer. ?

  85. Risky

    When the person I was just chilling with on their bed said to me something similar to this, despite us both having significant others, we spent most of the following 24 hours engaged in hanky panky of various kinds. Our significant others had previously mentioned they didn’t care. Is it possible Joe and Walky already gave them hall passes?

    1. Bittersweet

      Joe possibly, Walky almost certainly not (given that Dorothy was afraid to tell him about the pictures which was a much smaller step across the line.)

      1. V98

        Walky is… probably the furthest thing from Dorothy’s mind right now.

        Dorothy does not care much for him. It’s sad.

    2. Big Z

      I have a very hard time imagining Joe thinking in terms of hall passes when his mood seems much closer to “must avoid breaking my very sheltered girlfriend”.

      1. Bittersweet

        I can see him giving one for a few different reasons. I think Joyce using it would upset him deeply though. I would still prefer that to a cheating storyline though. I know there was the whole thread above about fiction vs. reality, but disliking cheating storylines for strong reasons is sort of a known issue with writing them (I remember the creators discussing one that happened in Friends or something and it became an incident that the audience was never really willing to move on from? Also that it negatively affects some romance novel readership.)

        1. Big Z

          IMHO I tend to treat a “cheating” storyline like any other storyline wherein a character engages in malfeasance: I might well enjoy a cheating STORYLINE, but I will probably strongly dislike a cheating CHARACTER and move them into my internal “oh, they’re supposed to be a villain” bucket.

    3. Crow

      Dang, 24 hours?

  86. ADLegend21

    What

  87. BearSkinDude

    *Palpatine Voice* DO IT!
    https://youtu.be/k4pbfT5pupc?t=23

  88. Throwatron

    here we see joyce brown, one of the straightest women of all time.

    1. Throwatron

      also im so glad that dorothy did end up saying the exact things joyce needed to hear

      1. Adept

        And then Joyce innocently follows with what sounds to Dorothy like an invitation for a kiss.

        1. Taffy

          That’d be extra funny if Dorothy went for it, Joyce didn’t return it, and when Dotty pulled away, Joyce was like “You know, I wasn’t going for that but I understand why you’d think so.”

      2. Pergola

        Dorothy: “Relax. Just let whatever happens, happen”. Then Joyce leans over and gives her a big smooch.

  89. tenkiforecast

    Joyce, this is a bad idea. ‘Could you help me practice’ is a phrase best associated with School Days, and that means the comic ends with a NICE BOAT

  90. Theron

    “Oops! All bisexuals” ?

    1. Jammy

      You saying that everyone is kind of painted with the same brush for the sake of inclusion?

      1. Nymph

        Are you saying that bisexual characters can only exist “for the sake of inclusion”?

        1. Crow

          I don’t think anyone here said what the subsequent commenter claims they said.

        2. Nymph

          No, that was the joke I was making <3

  91. Dot

    Funniest outcome is if Joyce is still straight

    1. Yak

      That would indeed be hilarious.

    2. V98

      Dorothy would turn into the Joker.

    3. Adept

      Until she says otherwise, that’s what I assume is going on 🙂

  92. Steamweed

    “Joyce, you can’t just ask for a threesome. You gotta check in with Joe first.”
    “See? This is what I mean!”

    1. V98

      *Would* Dorothy have a threesome with Joyce and Joe??

      I’m sure she’d be tempted – she’s obviously craving Joyce’s mcnuggies – but the inclusion of Joe could be a deal-breaker. At best he’s someone she’s really disliked in the past who just delivered her a pretty painful truth, and at worst he’s the lech that’s deflowering her girlcrush.

      1. Steamweed

        She didn’t outright say “no” to the proposed (kinda sorta quarter-jokingly okaywewon’t…unless…) threesome of Walky, Dorothy, and Joyce (taking notes). So…sure, with Joe, it’s not her ideal twosome of just them both on a dream horse. AND YET…

        1. Heavensrun

          Yeah, but she *Likes* both Walky and Joyce. Joe is like her once-shitty brother that used to pick on her and is kinda cool now but she’s still salty about it.

        2. Steamweed

          Yep. But if Joyce nudged her toward that…how much would it take?

      2. Adept

        I’m pretty sure Dorothy want’s no part in language or sentiments like ”deflowering”.

        1. V98

          Professed political attitudes don’t always line up with a person’s actual feelings, especially when love is in play!

  93. Yumi

    You know, there are heterosexual explanations for this, but in this case, I’m pretty sure they’d be wrong.

    1. Steamweed

      Daisy gravatar is perfect gravatar for that.

      1. Pergola

        If you flip the mouth around, it becomes a knowing smirk.

        1. yak

          The upper lip bite looks kinda creepy though

  94. Megan

    this is brutal david

  95. Ilucuthen

    I just woke up from a dream where Amber and Dorothy started dating. Feels like Dorothy might be happier in that situation than whatever’s going on here, actually, even with Amber being straight and what-not.

    1. Heavensrun

      Amber’s straight, but has anybody asked Amazi-girl?

  96. Yumi

    What I’m imaging for the next strip:
    *knock on the door*
    Joyce: Eeee! Joe is here! *hops out of bed, greets Joe* Bye, Dorothy! *door closes*
    Dorothy (still on Joyce’s bed): What the f–

    (There’s no real reason for the cut off curse, I just think they’re funny.)

    1. Yumi

      Then Joe and Joyce go on their date and have sex and are cuddling in Joyce’s bed after, about to nod off, and Joyce says something about how great that was “even though you’re not Dorothy.” And then she falls asleep. And Joe is on her bed thinking: What they f–

      1. Florence

        This is the only way I would be okay with the kiss of chaos 2k25 not happening

        1. Yumi

          I just think there can be more chaos.

        2. Florence

          Are you saying there could be more chaos? That the limit goes higher?

  97. Rabisch

    Joyce is not doing that with malice. But for Dorothy that’s probably a painful torture. Or maybe… an invitation.

  98. Hasufin

    This storyline is going to end with Dorothy either sobbing in her room or having an aneurysm.

    1. Big Z

      Honestly, I can’t imagine an ending for this storyline that DOESN’T result in Dorothy being very fucked up by it, regardless of what happens in the interim.

      Either she doesn’t make a move and stews about Joeyce all night.

      Or she does and gets rejected.

      Or she does and DOESN’T get rejected, and then everyone has to deal with the fallout from the infidelity/guilt instead.

      1. mindbleach

        Picture Dorothy leaning all the way into it, and entering her Cause Problems On Purpose arc. Rejecting the guilt. Telling Joe to git gud. Telling Joyce she can do whatever makes her happy. Telling Walky he’s still on speed-dial for booty calls and cartoon marathons.

        Shameless hedonism from a woman who can schedule that shit.

    2. Pergola

      Dorothy, save yourself. Bail for Yale!

  99. Acebender

    the way my jaw dropped oh my god

    this is like watching a car crash in slow mo

  100. Florence

    Really, the most problematic thing Joyce has done is not have a charcuterie board got when guests arrive in her dorm room

    Bad hosting!

    1. NGPZ

      Yeah, where’s some Pepperami when you need it? XD

      1. Florence

        Even just a good cheese would help

  101. Looney

    jesus fucking christ

  102. Amós Batista

    Erh, I would not be so mad about Joyce x Dorothy, you know? Everybody knows what Willis is known for…

  103. Suet

    In celebration of Free Comic Book Day tomorrow (coz I can’t participate), I will say one thing: LET. WILLIS. COOK.
    [Also I wanna see the Dorothy and Joyce on a Horse Magnet be funded, the new animation gives me determination]

    Maybe playing Paramore at a time like this was a set-up for… for…

  104. FlamestAndLight

    i can’t be normal about this one at all. I’m so not normal about this

  105. Skychrono

    I’ve never looked at the Patreon early post before today… but it looks like I can make an exception.

    1. Taffy

      It’s amazing. Faz has saved the mountain lion’s cub from the coyotes, but they never fully left, and now the mountain lion and Faz are about to do battle with the coyotes. Genuinely can’t wait to see this, it’s gonna be incredible. Probably the peak of Willis’s storytelling.

  106. Switchchris

    Joe x Joyce is Adorable, but Joyce x Dorothy would be even better. They have perfect chemistry, they make each other’s lives easier and just better in general, they share just about everything with each other, and there is obviously a mutual attraction, just one that Joyce doesn’t totally understand yet.
    I would call for a Poly relationship, but I highly doubt Dorothy would want to be in that kind of relationship with Joe involved.

    1. Astariel

      I agree completely. I’ve really enjoyed Joyce/Joe, but I didn’t think there was a possibility of Joyce/Dorothy becoming more than subtext until about a month ago, and now I want to see that more than anything. I think Dorothy would be okay with a poly relationship where Joyce dates both her and Joe. Joe and Dorothy wouldn’t have to be involved. Dorothy could even keep dating Walky in that case. I just doubt the author will let us off with such an easy solution.

  107. Big Z

    I’m operating under the assumption that “there’s no straight explanation for this” etc. folks have never had to comfort a sobbing lesbian who got rejected by a straight girl after they discovered they had very different expectations for “maximum level of platonic emotional intimacy before it flips over into obvious romantic interest”.

    There certainly ARE non-straight explanations for this, to be clear.

    1. Buck Ripsnort

      Let’s face it: Willis is deliberately pushing the “Is she or isn’t she” buttons REAL hard on this. Dude knows what he’s doing.

      1. Big Z

        Oh he is, and he knows it. I’m pretty sure he legally changed his middle name to “Damn you”.

    2. Li

      I’m not going to speak for everyone, but most of the time “there is no heterosexual explanation for this” is coming from a queer person who knows that even if they’re right, they’re still wrong.

      Like, maybe a literal teenager will say that and think it’s proof of something, but the context of comments like this is an overwhelmingly heteronormative world where jokey jokes about two characters saying super gay stuff never amount to anything but a punchline.

      I don’t really care for the joke myself because I’m tired of being accidentally queerbaited by Tumblr with suggestive gif sets about a show like Wednesday, where not only is the ship not canon, actually Wednesday is in a love triangle with like three boys and she and Enid are barely even friends. You kind of have to already be familiar with a show/book/movie/video game to know whether it’s “oh they’re literally dating” or “oh they’re literally dating”, and I dislike both being spoiled for canon queerness and being misled, so it’s basically lose-lose for me.

      But I don’t think the joke is usually meant literally.

      1. Heavensrun

        Man, sometimes I really wish we could upvote shit on here.

        1. Li

          Heh, thank you ? I have always enjoyed your comments here.

      2. Big Z

        That’s about half of where I’m coming from on it, too: “There’s no het explanation” often seems to be associated with having a sort of Lucy+Charlie Brown+football relationship with both queerbaiting and shipping in general.

        1. Li

          Sure, but my objection remains: I don’t think most of the people saying it are actually being Charlie Brown. I think it’s tongue-in-cheek and self-aware, for the most part.

  108. Moonie

    You can’t keep doing this to her joyce! Dorothy’s poor heart can only handle so much!

    1. Amós Batista

      She’s handling everything for so long. Poor Dorothy.

  109. Buck Ripsnort

    COME THE FUCK ON, WILLIS! You’re DELIBERATELY stretching the awkwardness comment craziness to the breaking point!

    1. Steamweed

      And we, the Loyal Commentariat, are responding as expected.

  110. Cloud

    I bet Willis was CACKLING when he was making these past few strips

  111. Astariel

    Dorothy: “That could be arranged.”

  112. DashWallkick

    As a fellow writer I can feel Willis’s sadistic grin as he slowly turns the knob towards “the ship is sailing”, milimeter by milimeter, teasing the audience bit by bit, making everyone crazy right before the moment when the knob turns the other way and we all scream “NO!!!!!!”

    1. Casi

      the ship is leaving port, but there’s a bomb on the ship, and we need Sandra Bullock to save it like she did that bus and i think i lost track of my metaphor

      1. Rabbit

        Why does Sandra Bullock deal with so many bombs in movies, is my question

  113. staszu13

    Cue Flintstones “surprised as hell tuba” cue

  114. Joyfulldreams

    Look. LOOK. I AM AS IN FOR THIS AS EVERYONE ELSE.

    But also I have been on the Joe/Joyce train for like nearly a decade. You cannot give it to me and then SNATCH IT AWAY LIKE *THIS*.

    1. V98

      You’ve had your fun!!! Joyce and Joe have been all kissy kissy for like 2 years now! You got a Slipshine! Let problematic lesbians have fun!!!!

      1. Big Z

        Mom: We have problematic lesbians at home.
        At home: Ruth and Billifer.

        1. Steamweed

          Aww, Mom, we’ve had that at home for like ten years!

        2. Joyfulldreams

          But they are truly exquisite problematic lesbians. The only way they could get any more problematic is if we went full The Locked Tomb with it.

        3. V98

          not a CHANCE that willis is willing to go anywhere near as far as whatever’s going on with Ianthe and Coronabeth.

          I mean, it’d be really interesting and funny if he *did*, but there’s no way!

      2. Joyfulldreams

        Wait, we got a slipshine??? When??? I don’t remember this!

        1. V98

          Wasn’t there one what with Joyce giving Joe a handie? I coulda sworn there was a slipshine of that.

        2. Steamweed

          The handjob is in Willis’s “damnyouwillis69” patreon (in the collections section, titled “Joyce Completes Touching A Pen” [yes, “pen”…not “penis”]). Slipshine doesn’t have it.

          However, Slipshine does have 1 page (only 1 page) of a mostly-clothed Joyce+Dorothy kiss/gropefest scene. Just a one-off drawing.

    2. Florence

      I’m sorry it had to go this way

      *I say with the biggest smile*

      (Jokes aside I do not think they’re getting together, feelings don’t mean relationship happens)

    3. Adept

      I don’t think he will. Joyce is genuinely into Joe.

    4. Rabbit

      This is my take away too. I never thought I’d get Joe/Joyce in DOA, ever, period. So having this be the way it’s likely going to end is killing me.

  115. Rectilinear Propagation

    ABORT! RETREAT! EVACUATE!

  116. Big Z

    “If I had a nickel for every time my best friend fell in love with me, I’d have two nickels, which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice.” — Joyce, probably.

    1. mindbleach

      She has two types.

  117. bunivasal

    Joe / Joyce / Dorothy / Walky polycule let’s GOOOOOO

    1. mindbleach

      Walky throws on a leather jacket and Joe’s like “Yeah, close enough.”

    2. Dorjojoe

      Ohhhhh baby a quadruple

  118. thumb

    Ooh, a suprise shot from just beyond the three-point-line! Let’s see if it scores.

    1. Steamweed

      If it misses, let’s see if Dorothy give the assist.

  119. Heartlesshealer

    Joyce, I understand this thought and why you feel able to express about sex worries to Dorothy, but you don’t voice that particular thought without a clarity follow-up.

  120. peat_moss

    GOD DAMMIT WILLIS

  121. Ash

    Was Joyce put on this earth as a punishment to lesbians?

    1. BYM!

      A wrathful goddess, a blessing and a curse…

    2. mindbleach

      Possibly my favorite comment ever.

  122. Miafillene

    Such a goddamn train wreck. I’d normally love it, but at this point I’m wondering why it just hasn’t stopped wrecking?

  123. Yeet

    hell yes train wreck let’s goooooo

  124. NGPZ

    420+ comments, you know what that means! 😛

    1. Amós Batista

      We need more milestones. I only know 420 and 666.

      1. Kazuma Shouri

        well before 420 we have 69, and after 666 we have 1337

  125. PokeyPuppy

    My response as a teenager to that prompt would be “Do you want to try having sex together to make it easier? We can fool around and call time out or quits if it gets too awkward.” And I would 100% mean it, it wouldn’t even cross my mind to mean anything else. (Turns out I’m neurodivergent and on the ace/aro spectrum, and really should’ve clued in on all that way earlier in my life.)

    1. Kazuma Shouri

      it truly is amazing how much everything makes sense with neurodivergent and queer hindsight

  126. Kazuma Shouri

    /facepalm

  127. aSnowyEvening

    JoYcE.

    Girl. What are you doing.

    What would Becky do if she heard you say that to Dorothy?

    I originally thought that Joyce was teasing because of the glances they traded in class, but honestly if it was intentional it would have just been cruel.

    Omg the train wreck

    1. Nymph

      Becky’s feelings, while important, should not be guiding who Joyce does or does not choose to be romantic with (if that’s what she chooses).

      1. NGPZ

        I concur, that would be making Joyce’s already difficult decision to embrace this aspect of herself about how good Becky is about it :/

  128. TerribleTransit

    This is just fantastic. Absolutely giddy about the situation that’s unfolded right here. I still can’t tell if Joyce knows or suspects something and is doing this intentionally, but whatever the reason, her last line has suddenly put Dorothy on a PRECIPICE. Suddenly the possibilities for how the interaction goes from here are almost endless, and Dotty’s next response seems likely to steer the course for this sapphic duo. Will she follow up on the implicit offer, giving into her desires and trying to sleep with Joyce at the expense of her morals? Will she take this at an opportunity to confess, acknowledging that she would also enjoy it but could not in good conscience do so with their relationships as they stand? She could laugh it off and back away, keeping her secret close for now. Infinite potential for drama and romance all hang in the balance, waiting for Dorothy to reply and start the wheel of fate rolling, down a new path of unknowns decided, but not controlled, by her choices. It’s simply electrifying.

    1. Rowan

      Agreed! This is going to impact a big heart of the comic.

  129. Syd

    Dangit we will never be free of the cheating bisexual allegations

    1. Steamweed

      Nnnnnooooooopppppeeeee.

      1. NGPZ

        unfortunately, i think you’re right (-_-)

    2. Rowan

      Are Walky and Dorothy actually officially exclusive though? To my knowledge they weren’t referring to each other as bf/gf but someone correct me if I’m wrong.

      1. yak

        Counts as cheating if you’re making moves on someone who *is* in a monogamous relationship.

        1. yak

          Eh u know what, nah it doesn’t

      2. TerribleTransit

        There was a pretty explicit acknowledgement on both their parts that they were back together, yes. Both in “Sweeten “(2) and in “Participant” immediately after

    3. Li

      I mean. Literally nothing Willis can write will do anything about that enormous real-life stereotype and it’s not actually the responsibility of individual queer authors to ensure their characters perfectly evade stereotypes placed on us by heteronormative cissexist perisexist society, actually.

      1. Syd

        Get back to me in a couple days friend

        1. Li

          In a couple of days, Willis is going to have the power to enact systematic change in how bisexual people are perceived by society?? Big if true.

    4. Heavensrun

      Nobody here is cheating at this point. Dorothy was caught off guard by her crush, but after realizing the nature of her feelings, she’s been processing everything ethically. I don’t think this scene is going to end with cheating, it’s just going to end with pain.

  130. Dorjojoe

    I SEE THE VISION

    I ALWAYS HAVE

    1. Rowan

      Yesss the throuple prevails ?

    2. peng

      <3

  131. Felian

    That third panel is what i want all worried first-timers to know. <3
    Pick someone who emotionally likes you & respects your boundaries, and everything will be fine!
    Will it be perfect? Probably not.
    Will it be awkward? Probably a bit.
    But it's gonna be okay and you'll learn more & more and what matters is to allow yourself to relax. <3

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