April's first Patreon bonus strip is here, and it's about DINA'S PARENTS! All patrons can read it at the Dumbing of Age Patreon!
And remember, you can pledge up to read tomorrow's strip a day early! Class dismissed
April's first Patreon bonus strip is here, and it's about DINA'S PARENTS! All patrons can read it at the Dumbing of Age Patreon!
And remember, you can pledge up to read tomorrow's strip a day early!
255 thoughts on “Class dismissed”
Ana Chronistic
Robin, that might as well be one single-spaced, stop wasting paper
“Get Poly-PSYCHED” reminds me of our class’s motto: EDGE
Engineering Design Graphics Extremists
(prolly why I nearly bombed, I wasn’t X-TREEM enough)
Kyrik Michalowski
Robin is just trying to fit in with the whole “double spaced” thing. If she lets them do single space what will the other teachers think of her?
NotThatDrew
I’ve heard they’ve got mugs designed to fix that problem
Sirksome
You know there’s a lot of bisexual denialism floating around this campus! We exist dammit!
Yotomoe
This is probably inappropriate to say but I’d much rather be bisexual than straight. Like…my moms pretty cool about gay stuff and I feel like being bi would be much more preferable than being squicked out by anything involving men.
Sirksome
Personally I don’t really believe there’s such a thing as “straight” or “gay” or “bisexual” at all. I understand the need for labels but narrowing sexuality down to two or three options just so limiting and isn’t really how humans work.
Yotomoe
I agree on a certain level. In that the human experience isn’t something you can quantify. These terms are made for ease of us understanding each other in the simplest terms. Everyone’s definitions of these experiences will obviously from person to person and I think there’s an issue with people feeling they HAVE to do something to fit a definition or other people imparting their definitions on you. However our ape brains also find it easier to section things off and we get a bit obsessed with them. Your identity describes you but it doesn’t DEFINE you. In the same way that sour can describe a lemon or milk but those aren’t the same thing.
Songbird
Honestly, it’s for this reason I don’t particularly care for labels for the first place. I understand that it’s important to other people and they’re useful as a general descriptor, which is why I use them in conversation, but that’s more out of respect for the desires of the people around me that I care about than it is about me liking the system of labels in the first place. I dunno, something about it just feels limiting to me.
Especially with regards to identity. To me, identity IS definition, rather than description, because it answers the question of “who,” rather than “what.” It’s a topic that I find both incredibly fascinating while at the same time immensely confusing and frustrating, because every time I try to put my thinking on the subject into words, it ends up coming out wrong or not making a whole lot of sense out loud, but I’ll try anyway:
WHO you are isn’t really measured in your looks, or words one labels themselves with, but by your likes, your dislikes, your loves and hatreds, your ambitions and fears, and the choices you make and the consequences of those choices. Like, the answer to the question of WHO is basically like your life story, I guess. Whereas for “WHAT” it’s physical descriptors, like height, weight, sex, gender, skin color, that kind of thing, I guess. But then again, so much of the “who” is informed or derived from the “what” and vice-versa, that the moment I think about that is when I realize this philosophical approach to my own identity stops making much sense to me.
Maybe it’s better if I use an example. I’ve mostly been attracted to women from both a sexual and romantic standpoint. I’ve had feelings towards men growing up that I believe can construed in retrospect as having been romantic, but while I have an admiration for my ideal sense of the male physical form from an aesthetic standpoint, I am sure I’ve never sexual attraction to men. I don’t know what this says about me or how I would describe it, but I do know that both “straight” and “bi” seem to be inadequate descriptions–especially given my feelings of labels as being inherently limiting. I mostly just call myself “straight” when it comes up in conversation with people at all, as it’s close enough to the truth even though it’s not terribly accurate and saves me from having to explain it to people.
But you see what I mean, right? From my perspective, a label serves to put humans into a box, and I find that box to be kind of restrictive. However, as I said, I also have to recognize that while labels seem to be restrictive and not very useful to me from an identity standpoint, it’s still important to other people, which is why I still use them. I don’t know, I find the whole thing to be kind of puzzling and mildly frustrating, if I’m being honest; but if I say that, I feel like people would get angry and I have trouble quite understanding why. This is actually my first attempt at articulating it to other people, and I really only feel safe doing so because I tend to be better at expressing myself through written words rather than speech. Even now though, I look back up and read the above and realize it probably doesn’t come across as very coherent. Sorry, this is all kind of stream of consciousness.
Spookyfox
some of us are lesbians…..
Sirksome
……Yeah, that’s valid.
Demoted Oblivious
And totally calling myself out here, but honestly I always took gay to imply any general form of homosexuality, as well as the more specific case of m/m. Like Coke is all colas, but also just coca-cola. But context plays heavily here too. I feel like the term has narrowed over the last four decades. Contrarily, lesbian is very specifically just f/f and always was, from the obvious derivation of the Isle of Lesbos. In the formal rainbow pantheon (is there such a thing) has gay been fully distinguished as just m/m? Further, is it thus offensive to refer to lesbians as gay?
Spookyfox
most people who experience same gender attraction refer to themselves as “gay” as a slang way to describe themselves. lesbians are gay, bisexuals are gay, gay men are gay.
Yotomoe
I’m totally one of those guys who gets irked when people call every soda “coke”. Like..”coke is coke.” Don’t call a Dr. Pepper coke! I like Dr. Pepper waaaay more than coke so that could make me miss an opportunity! Or alternatively you might say you’ve got coke but you just have like…pepsi or something.
Delicious Taffy
That one’s really weird to me. It’s like calling every sandwich a Big Mac.
I am Nothing
In England, we never really call burgers “sandwiches” and tend to instead separate the two.
Like, a Subway is a sandwich. McDonalds & Five Guys serve burgers.
Yotomoe
I mean…yeah that’s more or less what we do in america too. The only time I see burgers get called sandwiches here is in like…commercials or something.
Delicious Taffy
Gonna back this up and say yeah, we call ’em burgers, but also expand slightly and say that at least in my region, they’re understood to be a type of sandwich even if nobody says it outright. Legally speaking, you can only get a Good burger in Nevada and Boston, and whatever the hell they’re selling in Japan is allegedly closer to what Midwesterners call a Sloppy Joe.
Coca-Cola is a cola, which is a type of soda, but if you call a bottle of Ski a Coke, you’re liable to get your shit pushed in.
And Subway makes subs. Five people in a specific county in Delaware call ’em “hoagies”, but they’re submarine sandwiches. (So named for their similarity to a WWII German U-boat captain.)
milu
okay, well, what about the scandal of “mp3 players”? Those devices can usually play a whole range of formats! it’s an issue and no one is talking about it.
Needfuldoer
At least people don’t call generic non-Apple MP3 players “iPods”. (Unless folks who call every soft drink “a Coke” do…)
milu
outrageous! and what about “folk music”, that’s also a total misnomer, some folk music is AI-generated probably, or will be in the future, and “folk” is some sort of synonym for “human”, it’s “music made by folks” one would assume from the name, so that’s really misleading now isn’t???
Jhon
Philly guy here. They are Hoagies. Not heroes or grinders or zeppelins or subs. And Subway puts a map of the NY subway on their walls. So what?
RacingTurtle
“Lesbians” obviously means f/f, but the push to insist it can only apply to women who have never, ever been attracted to a man is relatively new. The terminology used to be more about actions than identity. Then came picking your letter out of “LGBT” (and cisnormative, heteronormative society definitely thinks it’s easier if you only pick ONE). It’s helpful in some ways to have defined, easy-to-understand categories, but flattens history in other ways. Feeling like you or anyone else has to fit a label perfectly can be confusing—as we see in this very comment thread. On the other hand, labels can give people power over their lives and their personal narrative; they can help people find community. I have an identity label of my own and I like it; it helps me make sense of things about myself.
Anyway if you meet a pair of sweet, badass old ladies who have been together for 30 years they are allowed to be lesbians without everyone investigating their previous relationships first. Maybe one is repulsed by men and the other is fine with men but prefers women. Don’t know, don’t care, not my beeswax, life doesn’t always fit into tidy categories
milu
i would go as far as to say, if you meet anyone of any age and relationship status who tells you they’re a lesbian…. maybe just take their word for it?
RacingTurtle
Yes
thejeff
That doesn’t necessarily go for straight people though. Case in point in this comic: Jennifer long denied that she was bisexual or queer at all, despite being in a long term relationship with another girl.
Thanks to heteronormativity, it’s much less likely to come up with queer people, but it’s still possible to be in denial about aspects of their sexuality, even while acting on them.
King Daniel
Good thing that’s (hopefully) not what many people mean when they say “gay”, “bi”, or “straight” then? Setting aside that bisexuality itself is more of a spectrum than a single thing, just off the top of my head I can reel off a bunch more.
Demoted Oblivious
Exactly. I never took “bi” to mean (going to absurdism), “well, my last fuck was a dude, so next up is a woman. Gotta meat quota.”
Delicious Taffy
Imagine how organised your love life would be, with that sort of planned certainty.
StClair
“meat quota” is something else entirely.
Delicious Taffy
“Meat quota” is what I call it when I pile a ton of shrimp and chicken on my plate at the Chinese buffet.
Demoted Oblivious
As a noun yes. But as a verb, it’s rather raunchier to meat your quota.
Jon S.
Sorry to burst your denialism, but I myself am boringly straight (much to the frustration of 9ne of my former roommates). My wofe is bi, though – does that count?
Demoted Oblivious
It would, but the obvious counter-argument is that you must then be so far in the closet that Aslan is your beard.
Demoted Oblivious
I’m not actually disputing your self-identity, but rather parodying that there are denialists in any group, including those who refuse to accept that some people just don’t have a homosexual bone in their body.
Sirksome
Not trying to deny your sexuality. (That would be a little ironic) Being boringly straight is fine, cool even. In fact it’s probably not as boring as you claim! My problem is more with the labels of it being used to force people into binary roles. To do that ignores the subtleties of what each individual finds attractive.
Yotomoe
Basically. For example I’m straight cuz I really love women. I super do. But…
I really don’t care for vaginas. Now I’ve never had any experience and that could be a factor. But like I only like stuff like cuddling and boobs and smooching and stuff. But that’s still under the umbrella of “straight”.butts
it might also land under the umbrella of “ace”, or at least somewhere along a-spec territory, but tbh that’s kind of up to you
Yotomoe
I dunno seems weird. I’m permanently horny. I just don’t wanna do that SPECIFIC sex act. Again it’s all about what labels we’re cool with and in my case I feel like being ace doesn’t represent how I feel, insomuch that I think my aversion doesn’t really have any reflection on my actual sexuality. Just on my personal taste.
Deanatay
All the more reason to be bi, right? Double the amount of spank material! (I mean, not double, the Lion’s Share of porn is for straight people, but it at least increases your options.)
(NO, Deanatay, DON’T get started on how lesbian porn isn’t for lesbians…)
Fox
That sounds like you may possibly fall somewhere on the asexual spectrum, where you’re romantically attracted to people but not sexually, or only attracted sexually some times or in very specific contexts.
https://www.glaad.org/amp/ace-guide-finding-your-community
https://www.glaad.org/amp/ace-guide-finding-your-community
Yotomoe
Naw I’m pretty much sexually attracted to people all the time. I specifically just find genitals kinda gross. I still long for physical intamacy something fierce and am SUPER down for all manner of loving. For me its less about the Genitalia and more about everything else? The boobs, the butt, the mouth, the hips, the skin, and of course the woman’s reactions. It’s just that one specific aspect of the affair that I don’t gel with.
Fox
Well it’s definitely possible to be attracted to a particular gender and be repulsed by a specific set of genitals. Out of curiosity, if it’s okay to ask, are you attracted obly to women with vulvas or just women in general and if the answer is in general, are you repulsed by all genitals or only vulvas?
Fox
You can respind by replying to my comment above yours if you want to respond.
Yotomoe
Mostly women in general. I just find women sexy. Again I’m mostly into it for all the other parts. Granted Vulva may still be my preference, I’m a virgin, so I can’t really say what I like for sure. What I might enjoy in a video or something might not translate when it’s actually me involved.
Fox
It’s definitely good that you know that about yourself, it’s much easier to figure yourself and your attractions out when you don’t go in with preconcieved ideas of what you “should” like. Like I always knew I was attracted to individual people not sexes or genders, took years to learn the term pansexual, but had I not had hang ups about how things “should” be, it would have taken waaaaaay less time to realize I’m polyamorous.
He Who Abides
Yotomoe, you might be sex-repulsed or sex-averse (I mention it because I super am), if that’s how you feel about genitals.
Mr. 2
Humans (and many many organisms that we share an evolutionary history with) are often attracted primarily to secondary sexual characteristics (e.g.: breasts, plumage, vocalizations, smells).
I am a male Kinsey 0, and am super into breasts and hip-waist ratio. Looking at genitals does nothing for me. But when my partner and I are getting amorous, I all of a sudden get totally into, in DoA parlance, shoving my face between her legs.
Birds/dinosaurs know what to do the first time those sexy feathers draw them to proximity of a cloaca.
milu
meh, evolutionary psychology is a risky undertaking and should be treated with lots of precaution when it comes to humans because our behaviour is complicated by layer upon layer of symbolic cues, thousand of generations deep, so while it’s possible that parts of human sexual behaviour have remained analogous to what we see in related species, it can be very hard to tease apart the relative influences of “nature vs nurture”, or better put symbolic vs genetic inheritance.
that was a roundabout way of saying, “citation needed”.
Chris Phoenix
Labels are sometimes useful, sometimes not. I’ve been attracted to lots of women, and maybe 3 men in 40 years, and each man has had something like long gorgeous hair or smooth curves that my brain associates with female presentation.
While recognizing that labels and categories (and even words) are only sometimes useful, I think I’m a very good fit for the “straight” or “mostly straight” category, and it would feel weird/inaccurate to deny that that label can apply to me.
Fox
I see sexual orientation as a complex spectrum, where people can fall on either “extreme” end or anywhere else along the way, ie asexual, homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, pansexual, homo/heteroflexible, etc all fall somewhere along the spectrum and the label is just a way to explain experiences and find like minded people, but shouldn’t be used to say, “all _____sexual people are the same”. Everyone is unique and so is their experience of sexual orientation, but that doesn’t mean the labels aren’t useful, they’re just shorthand for one aspect of a complex being.
milu
yeah, and look, this will sound obvious to you but i feel it’s missing from a lot of these “spectrum” models, liberating as they may be to begin with, is that:
1) you don’t need to pick a category; lots of people find it useful and relaxing but others find it stressful and constraining;
2) attraction and sexuality is not (purely) a pre-existing personality trait that you need to discover and accept; it’s also something you live, it’s also produced to some extent by the experiences that you have with people/communities/media… so whatever identity you feel fits at any one time, it can also change.
Demoted Oblivious
Yes this: sexual identity words are meant to be descriptivist NOT prescriptivist. i.e. you get to use the words that meet your needs to describe yourself, instead of you having to follow the rules to be the living definition of one of the words. And even picking some word(s) is an option, not a requirement.
Fox
I can agree with that, it isn’t necessary to pick a label and orientation is complex and can take time to discover, however I would be careful of attributing any part of identity to environment because it starts getting used as “proof” for ___ “makes” you gay, bi, ace, etc and while environment shapes expression of traits, it can’t change what traits exist.
milu
oh yeah there definitely are genetic factors to sexual orientation and gender identity. But there are social factors at play also.
like, one thing that does “make” you “gay, bi, ace, etc” is the english language ^^
i mean, what is “a trait” and what is “the expression of a trait”?
putting it that way makes it sound very straightforward, but i’m not convinced it’s a line that’s all that easy to draw at all.
Fox
“A trait” meaning a genetic predisposition to a specific feature and “the expression of a trait” meaning which genes get activated and which stay dormant. For example, I know somone with psoriasis, which is a genetic autoimmune disease only presenting in somone who has two copies of the gene to cause it. This person also has an indentical twin who does not have psoriasis. Their twin obviously has both genes for it because they’re genetically identical, but they never had the gene triggered by their environment. The point of sharing this is to show that you can’t change a persons genetic traits through environment, only which ones get activated. Since it’s impossible to know what environmentally specifically triggers what gene to present and because everyone is individual, you can’t change somones orientation, it’s immutable. However, since a vast number of people are not on the most extreme ends of the sexual orientation spectrum, there is some flexibility in their sexuality. This can appear as “change over time”, but is far more likely to be that they simply understand themselves better over time.
Tldr;
Basically, orientation doesn’t change, it’s inborn, but your understanding of your orientation changes and whether you express all/any part of your orientation is somewhat linked to environment.
HeatherJean
Besides, being bisexual doubles your chances of a date on Saturday night.
(apologies to Woody Allen)
Kyrik Michalowski
Agreed, what with Billie/Jennifer denying her own bosexualness and all. We need to get someone as loud as Becky to represent us. 😛
Suitora
Danny almost was that. Almost.
Jamie
Loud? Polite disagreement.
Demoted Oblivious
Seriously, a Ukelele can only pump out so many decibels.
Needfuldoer
I’m sure an electric ukulele exists somewhere in the world.
Jhon
My friend Google agrees with you.
Demoted Oblivious
Ahem. It’s pronounced, “my friend Google.”
Needfuldoer
Does your friend Google know where it is?
Because it must be destroyed.
NotThatDrew
Bisexual reader rise up!
NotThatDrew
Readers*
I really need to either proofread my shit or not start drinking an hour and a half before the next strip goes up
Sirksome
Ruth and Danny: “There are dozens of us! Dozens!”
RassilonTDavros
Every time I hear Ruth and Danny mentioned in the same sentence I have a heart attack.
In all seriousness, though, I’d be kinda interested in seeing a friendship between them that doesn’t end in one of them dying.
Spencer
Their ship name is Act with Integrity.
RassilonTDavros
I mean there’s apparently at least one Walkyverse-adjacent alternate reality where that ship actually sailed, going by the kids-from-alternate-futures storyline in Joyce and Walky! The kid on the far left in this strip is apparently theirs. (SPOILERS for basically the entire old continuity)
Rose by Any Other Name
**stands up**
….
Okay, now what?
NotThatDrew
Uhhhh… dang, I didn’t plan past this part.
*whistles awkwardly*
Wanna get coffee?
Rose by Any Other Name
Sure!
My usual order is a large cold brew, extra sweet, with cream.
Delicious Taffy
It’s a quarter past eleven, I ain’t gettin’ up for diddly squat.
NotThatDrew
Fair
butts
for the record, butts is not constrained by the gender binary
and for what it’s worth i have rued this comic’s relative dearth of man-ass on more than one occasionRacingTurtle