As a chronically I’ll/disabled person, I basically have to shower at night cause the entire concept of “starting my day” with a shower is completely inaccessible to me. Sometimes showering takes basically all of my spoons and physical exertion so if it was the first thing I tried to do that day, I’d basically be able to do nothing else.
If I shower at night, I have to wait hours before I go to bed, or my hair and beard will be all weird in the morning. And ten minutes in a hot shower wakes me up better than trying to sleep for another ten minutes.
Well, one thing that stuck from being in the Army for 20 years was keeping my hair pretty short. So, out of the shower, towel off my head, and it’s dry in 10 minutes. My beard is pretty short too.
I also prefer evening showers. I don’t care if I’m stank-XL all day, but I can’t go to sleep when I’m sweaty and/or grimy.
I need the transition to tell my brain the day has started. Plus its so easy to get hot and sweaty during sleep where I live, i feel gross not showering after I wake up. The ideal would be morning and evening ig but my eczema would not appreciate that
I used to do morning showers because that’s how I was taught, but it was always an agonizingly long process because I’d spend 15-30 minutes nodding off under the downpour
Then one summer I got a job as a dishwasher, and when I came home not only did I feel covered in grime, but I could not convince myself to get into bed with that grime still on me, so I’d basically shower when I got home
Arguably, it was still a “morning” shower since I was working close shifts, and that would keep me until 2amish, but I quickly turned into an evening showerer. Saved me time overall too since I was awake and eager to feel clean again
Um… Why? Seriously, I don’t get why people like Roz-the-person, or even really, Roz-the-character. Her politics are generally spot-on, but she’s, like, literally the worst advocate possible for them. And the worst part is, she’s never seriously called out for her conduct. The closest was Leslie shutting her down in class, and even then, there was no actual recognition on Roz’s part that she’d been out of line.
Roz is what you’d get if Mary were a hyper-progessive.
She’s *waiting* to be called out on her B.S. is the problem…But, yes, it would be nice if everybody started to sarcastically call her “Jane Fonda” or comment about how she’s basically an obligatory 4-year college student cliche as if she was in the middle of another adolescent ‘phase’…Or call her “Short Robin DeSanto”. That would set her off.
Francoinblanco
Oooooh short Robin DeSanto thats buuurn and we are in the showers
She was threatened with expulsion if she released another tape.
Li
That is an interesting choice for “Roz has been called out for her conduct”. Which part of “made a consensual sex tape with an enthusiastically consensual partner” needed calling out? (Visual gag about having taped the camera to Danny’s unconscious foot notwithstanding.)
UrsulaDavina
I think consent of having the tape released was given after the fact which is not how you go about releasing a sex tape, also you shouldnt film a sex tape when all parties (Dany being party) did not consent The issue with Roz it seems to be she acts before she thinks, and her poltics and overall goals are in my opinion correct her attitude of devil takes the hindmost, when it comes to achieving said aims and her quick judgments of folks and knowitallism can be frustrating. She is not villainous though.
Li
I mean she correctly gauged that Joe would be fine with it tho, and Danny was asleep and not on camera, so.
My comment remains directed at tbf. Consciously or not, they seem to have internalized the idea that the sex tape itself was something Roz deserved backlash for, and I think that’s worth examining.
Freemage
By ‘calling out’, I mean as part of the narrative, being forced to consider her own actions in some fashion. It never happens; people who disagree with her are summarily dismissed, every time. The closest she’s ever come to being shown as losing an argument was, again, the scene with Leslie, and even then she only conceded to a withdrawal, never actually acknowledged the original point that Leslie was trying to make (namely, that the purpose of the class was not to call out individual fellow students for their perceived lack of progressive credentials).
Getting rebuked by authority is not the same thing as getting called out on your actions by the narrative itself. Compare, say, Joe being forced to confront the actual effects of his horndog misogyny, or Walky being smacked upside the head with a clue-by-four about his lax study habits.
Li
On the other hand, consider that Joe and Walky are major characters, and Roz is not. She’s been tagged in a grand total of 134 comics, and how many of those appearances lasted for more than one strip consecutively?
I’d also argue that the narrative doesn’t back Roz up as often as you say. All of the Roz Moments I can think of off the top of my head actually have her failing to achieve or goals or embarrassing herself or being told to shut up and go away. Getting called out by Leslie, yes, but also the sex tape gambit didn’t work out the way she wanted it to, nor did her attempt to hook Leslie up with Robin. She didn’t win the RA position and she really embarrassed herself with Joyce after the frat party, though she didn’t know it at the time. Trying to teach Leslie’s class also didn’t really work out the way she wanted it to or paint her in a flattering light, apart from a brief acknowledgement that Joe’s misogyny still sucked.
Like. Just because she has a point sometimes doesn’t mean the narrative is always on her side.
Freemage
Okay, but then Raidah’s been in only 73 strips, and she’s already had a major setback as a result of the narrative (breaking up with Jacob). I will concede that we’ve gotten little by way of an actual arc about her–but that’s actually one of the things I find frustrating about her, as a character. She doesn’t seem to have any development at all–but she’s constantly thrust into situations of interacting with the main cast as if she were one of them.
Huh.
So, weird thing, here. I was doing an archive-dig to see where Mike’s character development was at 134 appearances, just as a baseline comparison point (since Mike is, per Word of God, the character who was so one-note that he simply couldn’t continue to be useful to the strip). And we did have some strong indications of just how loyal he was to Ethan and Amber, a personal connection unlike anything we’ve seen from Roz.
But then, I was reading adjacent strips, because I do enjoy this comic, and some of those older ones still make me giggle.
This is exactly the sort of thing I’d like to see from Roz. It’s a pity I forgot about it, but then again, that’s not entirely my fault, since what is arguably her greatest character growth happened off-screen, and in the third person.
Some of us even dare to like actual villainous characters!
Freemage
Oh, I like villainous villains. That’s kind of my point, actually. Roz is presented and framed as a hero. Her actions are generally lauded in the story, as at least well-intentioned and at worst “correct, but tactless”. But I’ve seen no evidence that she’s not as much of a malignant narcissist as Mary, yet she never gets treated as one.
Li
Really not a fan of narcissist being used in this way. Maybe someday when the actual personality disorder isn’t so highly stigmatized, but for now I strongly prefer just calling people (and characters) self-absorbed/self-righteous/whatever more specific thing you mean.
Anyway, I’d say the evidence for that is… kind of all over Roz’s appearances, so I’m not sure how else to respond. She’s repeatedly demonstrated concern for Joyce’s well-being even though they’re not even slightly friends, for one. For another, before we can put someone in Mary’s league, I think they have to be smugly declaring their superiority to other characters on panel, and the closest Roz has ever gotten to that was her “everyone’s a centrist compared to me” line, which. Nah. That was just her briefly being a very realistic teenager.
(And for her age, like, her politics are light years ahead of the curve. I’m sure it helps that she grew up with a politically ambitious sister to rail against, really gave that adolescent rebelliousness a concrete direction to rebel in. She exhibits some black and white thinking and oversimplifies people who disagree with her politically, but like. Give her five years. I don’t think the readership of this comic would measure up very favorably if they compared themselves at nineteen to Roz; I know I wouldn’t have.)
Freemage
Narcissism is one of those things that can both be considered a personality disorder, and a personality trait; the latter is far more common, of course, and usually doesn’t actually inhibit the person from living life the way the actual disorder can. But in the interest of continuing a discussion I’m enjoying, I’ll defer to you on this–‘self-absorbed/self-centered’ covers it closely enough.
As for her concern about Joyce… I don’t think she has demonstrated concern about Joyce. Her interactions on that front have been largely stock responses that often missed the mark precisely because she has made no effort whatsoever to engage Joyce as a person. She gave advice on the pill before finding out why Joyce was taking it, and she spouted off to Dorothy to accuse her of slut-shaming, not to find out why Dot might’ve found Joyce’s specific choice of paramour concerning.
And, of course, that is weighed against her attempts to hold Joyce responsible for every ill Christianity has caused, and to accuse her of having no business taking an intro to poli-sci course.
On Roz’s political views… I agree with some of your points. Her current positions are, by and large, ones I wished I had held when I was her age. OTOH, I know damned well I was vastly more approachable and willing to listen to others than she is at that age, precisely because of just how far my political views shifted at that time of my life. That’s actually one of the things that drives me up the wall about her–she’s the worst possible sort of advocate for what should be the best possible positions.
That’s like, most of those people. Self-righteous congratulatory humorless puritans who don’t even realize they share the same ideology as the fuckers who run the world imperial system.
Do you mean menstruation? Menses? Bleeding? Like with the cramps, discharge, mucous plug, clots, dysmenorrhea, bloating, constipation /and/ diarrhea, and stuff? Yeah, I hear it’s quite rough for some.
Mr D
How do you even get both constipation and diarrhea at the same time, how does that work
asmodai27
It is absolutely possible to be constipated, and for the feces to be liquid when it finally gets out of one’s system.
Mr D
Cursed Knowledge. Thanks.
clif
But in answer to your question, “how does that work,” the answer is “not well.”
Rose by Any Other Name
@MrD: Imagine a cork in a bottle of champagne.
Now imagine shaking the bottle to build up pressure within.
Eventually, the pressure pushes out the cork…
That’s how it works.
Poskie
You expel substances Moët and Chandon could never have imagined in their worst nightmares.
More likely she knows when Joyce showers, and she seems to be the only one there other than Joyce. Besides if Joyce was vocal enough that Roz heard her then Roz wouldn’t have looked so surprised.
191 thoughts on “Cleanest”
Doctor_Who
I guess staring at Joe for 8 hours straight will do that.
You know Joyce, there’s someone who can describe the whole Joe Experience in explicit detail right there.
Steamweed
She knows. She has seen the video.
(totally wonder if she kept a copy)
Ana Chronistic
why I always waited for the cleaning crew to come through
also fuck MORNING showers, who has all that extra time in the morning that could be used for extra sleeps!
Doctor_Who
I can’t stand to go to bed feeling grimy, so evening showers for me.
And yes, 15 minutes extra sleep is a lifesaver some days.
Casi
i do an evening shower or bath, and a quick morning rinse, especially in the summer because it’s already hot at 6 am where i am.
Mr D
Where I live, taking a cold shower at least twice a day during summer, sometimes up to 4, is the standard.
Jamie
I usually don’t feel gross in the evening, but I do when I wake up, so that’s when I shower.
Mano308gts
Complete disagreement on extra sleep vs a quick shower; the shower is 10x as refreshing as an equivalent amount of ‘extra’ sleep.
Jo_cubstar
As a chronically I’ll/disabled person, I basically have to shower at night cause the entire concept of “starting my day” with a shower is completely inaccessible to me. Sometimes showering takes basically all of my spoons and physical exertion so if it was the first thing I tried to do that day, I’d basically be able to do nothing else.
Ana Chronistic
sort of this for me, but also I can’t get daytime clothes on after a shower, they just feel gross
and heck to going out with wet hair (blowdrying also, heck to that)
John Campbell
If I shower at night, I have to wait hours before I go to bed, or my hair and beard will be all weird in the morning. And ten minutes in a hot shower wakes me up better than trying to sleep for another ten minutes.
brionl
Well, one thing that stuck from being in the Army for 20 years was keeping my hair pretty short. So, out of the shower, towel off my head, and it’s dry in 10 minutes. My beard is pretty short too.
I also prefer evening showers. I don’t care if I’m stank-XL all day, but I can’t go to sleep when I’m sweaty and/or grimy.
Liara
I sweat when I sleep, always have. Evening showers would be completely pointless for me, I’d wake up sweaty and grimy regardless
zee
I need the transition to tell my brain the day has started. Plus its so easy to get hot and sweaty during sleep where I live, i feel gross not showering after I wake up. The ideal would be morning and evening ig but my eczema would not appreciate that
Kazuma Taichi
I used to do morning showers because that’s how I was taught, but it was always an agonizingly long process because I’d spend 15-30 minutes nodding off under the downpour
Then one summer I got a job as a dishwasher, and when I came home not only did I feel covered in grime, but I could not convince myself to get into bed with that grime still on me, so I’d basically shower when I got home
Arguably, it was still a “morning” shower since I was working close shifts, and that would keep me until 2amish, but I quickly turned into an evening showerer. Saved me time overall too since I was awake and eager to feel clean again
Dave the Inverted
I do both. +shrug+ It takes extra time and water and all that, but I don’t think I could go back to just once per day.
Osopescado
Quit stalling, Joyce.
Imogen
only important comment
JA
r/angryupvote
NGPZ
stalling? STALLING
stalling? STALLING!!!
Weatherheight
And now, *that’* what the kids are calling it these days.
JuneDog
Shower? I hardly know her!
DailyBrad
Sex positivity, Roz, remember the sex positivity.
Decidedly Orthogonal
I’m positive Joyce is playing sex in the shower.
Animedingo
Exhibition kink unlocked
NGPZ
??
Imogen
I like goofy little comics like this. Always nice to see Roz onscreen.
Freemage
Um… Why? Seriously, I don’t get why people like Roz-the-person, or even really, Roz-the-character. Her politics are generally spot-on, but she’s, like, literally the worst advocate possible for them. And the worst part is, she’s never seriously called out for her conduct. The closest was Leslie shutting her down in class, and even then, there was no actual recognition on Roz’s part that she’d been out of line.
Roz is what you’d get if Mary were a hyper-progessive.
Taffy
Boo-hoo, suck it up and like a different character then.
DudeMyDadOwnsADealership
She’s *waiting* to be called out on her B.S. is the problem…But, yes, it would be nice if everybody started to sarcastically call her “Jane Fonda” or comment about how she’s basically an obligatory 4-year college student cliche as if she was in the middle of another adolescent ‘phase’…Or call her “Short Robin DeSanto”. That would set her off.
Francoinblanco
Oooooh short Robin DeSanto thats buuurn and we are in the showers
tbf
She was threatened with expulsion if she released another tape.
Li
That is an interesting choice for “Roz has been called out for her conduct”. Which part of “made a consensual sex tape with an enthusiastically consensual partner” needed calling out? (Visual gag about having taped the camera to Danny’s unconscious foot notwithstanding.)
UrsulaDavina
I think consent of having the tape released was given after the fact which is not how you go about releasing a sex tape, also you shouldnt film a sex tape when all parties (Dany being party) did not consent The issue with Roz it seems to be she acts before she thinks, and her poltics and overall goals are in my opinion correct her attitude of devil takes the hindmost, when it comes to achieving said aims and her quick judgments of folks and knowitallism can be frustrating. She is not villainous though.
Li
I mean she correctly gauged that Joe would be fine with it tho, and Danny was asleep and not on camera, so.
My comment remains directed at tbf. Consciously or not, they seem to have internalized the idea that the sex tape itself was something Roz deserved backlash for, and I think that’s worth examining.
Freemage
By ‘calling out’, I mean as part of the narrative, being forced to consider her own actions in some fashion. It never happens; people who disagree with her are summarily dismissed, every time. The closest she’s ever come to being shown as losing an argument was, again, the scene with Leslie, and even then she only conceded to a withdrawal, never actually acknowledged the original point that Leslie was trying to make (namely, that the purpose of the class was not to call out individual fellow students for their perceived lack of progressive credentials).
Getting rebuked by authority is not the same thing as getting called out on your actions by the narrative itself. Compare, say, Joe being forced to confront the actual effects of his horndog misogyny, or Walky being smacked upside the head with a clue-by-four about his lax study habits.
Li
On the other hand, consider that Joe and Walky are major characters, and Roz is not. She’s been tagged in a grand total of 134 comics, and how many of those appearances lasted for more than one strip consecutively?
I’d also argue that the narrative doesn’t back Roz up as often as you say. All of the Roz Moments I can think of off the top of my head actually have her failing to achieve or goals or embarrassing herself or being told to shut up and go away. Getting called out by Leslie, yes, but also the sex tape gambit didn’t work out the way she wanted it to, nor did her attempt to hook Leslie up with Robin. She didn’t win the RA position and she really embarrassed herself with Joyce after the frat party, though she didn’t know it at the time. Trying to teach Leslie’s class also didn’t really work out the way she wanted it to or paint her in a flattering light, apart from a brief acknowledgement that Joe’s misogyny still sucked.
Like. Just because she has a point sometimes doesn’t mean the narrative is always on her side.
Freemage
Okay, but then Raidah’s been in only 73 strips, and she’s already had a major setback as a result of the narrative (breaking up with Jacob). I will concede that we’ve gotten little by way of an actual arc about her–but that’s actually one of the things I find frustrating about her, as a character. She doesn’t seem to have any development at all–but she’s constantly thrust into situations of interacting with the main cast as if she were one of them.
Huh.
So, weird thing, here. I was doing an archive-dig to see where Mike’s character development was at 134 appearances, just as a baseline comparison point (since Mike is, per Word of God, the character who was so one-note that he simply couldn’t continue to be useful to the strip). And we did have some strong indications of just how loyal he was to Ethan and Amber, a personal connection unlike anything we’ve seen from Roz.
But then, I was reading adjacent strips, because I do enjoy this comic, and some of those older ones still make me giggle.
And then I hit this one: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-7/01-glower-vacuum/sisters-4/
This is exactly the sort of thing I’d like to see from Roz. It’s a pity I forgot about it, but then again, that’s not entirely my fault, since what is arguably her greatest character growth happened off-screen, and in the third person.
Li
Some of us even dare to like actual villainous characters!
Freemage
Oh, I like villainous villains. That’s kind of my point, actually. Roz is presented and framed as a hero. Her actions are generally lauded in the story, as at least well-intentioned and at worst “correct, but tactless”. But I’ve seen no evidence that she’s not as much of a malignant narcissist as Mary, yet she never gets treated as one.
Li
Really not a fan of narcissist being used in this way. Maybe someday when the actual personality disorder isn’t so highly stigmatized, but for now I strongly prefer just calling people (and characters) self-absorbed/self-righteous/whatever more specific thing you mean.
Anyway, I’d say the evidence for that is… kind of all over Roz’s appearances, so I’m not sure how else to respond. She’s repeatedly demonstrated concern for Joyce’s well-being even though they’re not even slightly friends, for one. For another, before we can put someone in Mary’s league, I think they have to be smugly declaring their superiority to other characters on panel, and the closest Roz has ever gotten to that was her “everyone’s a centrist compared to me” line, which. Nah. That was just her briefly being a very realistic teenager.
(And for her age, like, her politics are light years ahead of the curve. I’m sure it helps that she grew up with a politically ambitious sister to rail against, really gave that adolescent rebelliousness a concrete direction to rebel in. She exhibits some black and white thinking and oversimplifies people who disagree with her politically, but like. Give her five years. I don’t think the readership of this comic would measure up very favorably if they compared themselves at nineteen to Roz; I know I wouldn’t have.)
Freemage
Narcissism is one of those things that can both be considered a personality disorder, and a personality trait; the latter is far more common, of course, and usually doesn’t actually inhibit the person from living life the way the actual disorder can. But in the interest of continuing a discussion I’m enjoying, I’ll defer to you on this–‘self-absorbed/self-centered’ covers it closely enough.
As for her concern about Joyce… I don’t think she has demonstrated concern about Joyce. Her interactions on that front have been largely stock responses that often missed the mark precisely because she has made no effort whatsoever to engage Joyce as a person. She gave advice on the pill before finding out why Joyce was taking it, and she spouted off to Dorothy to accuse her of slut-shaming, not to find out why Dot might’ve found Joyce’s specific choice of paramour concerning.
And, of course, that is weighed against her attempts to hold Joyce responsible for every ill Christianity has caused, and to accuse her of having no business taking an intro to poli-sci course.
On Roz’s political views… I agree with some of your points. Her current positions are, by and large, ones I wished I had held when I was her age. OTOH, I know damned well I was vastly more approachable and willing to listen to others than she is at that age, precisely because of just how far my political views shifted at that time of my life. That’s actually one of the things that drives me up the wall about her–she’s the worst possible sort of advocate for what should be the best possible positions.
Barf Ninjason
That’s like, most of those people. Self-righteous congratulatory humorless puritans who don’t even realize they share the same ideology as the fuckers who run the world imperial system.
Joe Moose
Y’know, I thought this was referring to something a bit less…hands on, but then I read the alt-text.
Bicycle Bill
I thought she was perhaps referring to something that most women her age deal with on a monthly basis.
Rose by Any Other Name
We just finished that arc. Joyce should be clear for a while.
Taffy
Oh, like a period.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Do you mean menstruation? Menses? Bleeding? Like with the cramps, discharge, mucous plug, clots, dysmenorrhea, bloating, constipation /and/ diarrhea, and stuff? Yeah, I hear it’s quite rough for some.
Mr D
How do you even get both constipation and diarrhea at the same time, how does that work
asmodai27
It is absolutely possible to be constipated, and for the feces to be liquid when it finally gets out of one’s system.
Mr D
Cursed Knowledge. Thanks.
clif
But in answer to your question, “how does that work,” the answer is “not well.”
Rose by Any Other Name
@MrD: Imagine a cork in a bottle of champagne.
Now imagine shaking the bottle to build up pressure within.
Eventually, the pressure pushes out the cork…
That’s how it works.
Poskie
You expel substances Moët and Chandon could never have imagined in their worst nightmares.
milu
Best thread today, not even close
Decidedly Orthogonal
“Come quick, I am tasting the sharts!”
PedanticJerkass
Why.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Maybe she just forgot her towel?
John Campbell
Not hoopy.
Amós Batista
Concentrate, Joyce: Washing machine, rinse circle, centrifuge… ???
Needfuldoer
No, the dryer should be for after the shower.
How’d she drag that thing all the way upstairs, anyway?
Dday
Wax on, right hand. Wax off, left hand. Wax on, wax off.
JA
Joyce has evolved beyond needing the washing machine, it seems.
Steamweed
This isn’t even her final form!
Jo_cubstar
Haha I guess Joyce has discovered other ways to masturbate, other than the Laundromat
Rose by Any Other Name
“Stay curious!”
RassilonTDavros
She’s really come such a long way since Roz first met her.
TrueVCU
Roz you are being VERY orgasm-negative right now
Nono
…how did Roz know Joyce was even in that stall? Was she making, uh, sounds?
Kyrik Michalowski
More likely she knows when Joyce showers, and she seems to be the only one there other than Joyce. Besides if Joyce was vocal enough that Roz heard her then Roz wouldn’t have looked so surprised.
DudeMyDadOwnsADealership
She clearly stated why she bothered to learn this. Another look at Roz’s true colors when you take her progressive politics out of the equation…
Daibhid C
If you take Roz’s progressive politics out of the equation, she’s … someone who likes clean showers and knows Joyce does as well?
I mean, I don’t like her either, but I’m not sure that’s a reason why.