I think she is singing the song with regards to being forgiven for her sins. Now how Becky will feel about it later, especially if Joyce finds out, is anyone’s guess.
I know the strip, I know the song, I just don’t agree with that interpretation of how they’re fitting together here.
Wraithy2773
We’ll likely find out tomorrow.
Well, unless we cut away to another interlude. Then within the next week.
Well, unless that then cuts away to a different story.
Within the next month for sure. Probably.
Yumi
Watch as we just never come back to this particular arc.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Horny jail is being trapped in stasis… forever?
System of Eleven
Self-comfort, yes. Guilt, I don’t think so. There’s a difference between guilt and shame. Guilt is believing you have done something wrong and regretting tat you did it. Shame is believing that *other people* think it’s wrong and fearing their judgement if it’s find out. One can feel shame and guilt at the same time, but I think Becky is reaching a point where she’s struggling much more with the shame than the guilt.
For her, the shame is specifically directed at God, who supposedly knows absolutely everything and will send an unrepentant liar to eternal torment as quickly as an unrepentant murderer, because from his perspective all sins and imperfections are equally deserving of damnation. There is no way to hide what she’s done, and there is every reason to fear his response to it even if she doesn’t consider it to be inherently evil.
Hence Liz panicking with the belief that she ‘almost ruined herself forever’ after getting close to having premarital sex, compared to Becky who is more worried about the eternal consequences if God decides to condemn her. Liz believed the action itself was the problem; Becky believes that God’s perspective on the action is the problem.
Yumi
Interested in why you went into a discussion of distinction between guilt and shame when nobody in the thread had used either of those terms? Is it because of the idea of regret? Because that still seems like it could go with either guilt or shame– differently, perhaps, but still. Or was it just something you wanted share and bring into the discussion?
Chris Phoenix
As an ex-Christian fundie, it made perfect sense to me. Not in relation to what the thread is talking about, but in relation to what Becky is feeling and thinking.
She’s almost certainly feeling at least one of shame and guilt. The question is whether she thinks she did wrong – in which case she’d regret doing it. Or whether she just thinks God thinks she did wrong – in which case she’d probably want to “fix it forward” rather than regretting having done it.
Thing is, fundie Christianity has a very strong, though very inconsistent, redemption narrative. If you’re a televangelist who steals people’s money and cheats on his wife, you just have to say “I’ve prayed about it and God has forgiven me” and all the people will forgive you too and send more money. You probably don’t even have to give the stolen money back, much less treat your wife better. Just oopsie, I did the wrong thing, God forgave me, everything’s cool now.
It’s almost kind of a “get out of regret free” card…
Stifyn Baker
I hate the term ‘Christian Fundamentalist’, because of how FAR AWAY from the fundamental principles of Christianity most of them seem to be.
Christianity was founded (NOT by Jesus, but by his closest followers after his death and perceived resurrection) on five core principles:
1. Love everybody, whether you believe they deserve it or not.
2. Care for the poor, oppressed and vulnerable.
3. Live a life of service to others.
4. Comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable.
5. Spread principles 1 through 4 as widely as possible, persuading as many people as you can to act on them.
If you read the Book of Acts, which is basically the history of the founding of the Church, you will see these five principles being put into practice. Those are the “fundamentals” of Jesus’ message. There’s no call be believe in any form of scripture, no prescribed forms of worship, no mandate to oppress people over their race, gender, religious or sexual preference, no ban on sex between free, consenting adults unless one of them has already made a commitment to someone else.
So in my book, if you want to call yourself a Christian Fundamentalist, those five things better be what you’re doing, and you need to be careful about anything your tradition has thrown on top of them.
Spencer
Actually yeah that’s a good point. Why are they called fundamentalists anyway? The longest running gag about them is that they worship a 5ft Middle East Jewish socialist, but the fundamentals he preached don’t tend to mean much to them.
Is it more like “adhering to teachings, except those teachings are Fire & Brimstone/Biblical Literalism/I’m Innately Holier Than Thou”? Like say, they’re “following the fundamentals” except the fundamentals they were taught were the ones about Christianity as it exists on a cultural level of “White Jesus loves guns.”
Concolor44
PREACH IT!!!
I am so DONE with the American Evangelical approach to religion. It has, as you show, basically zilch to do with the imitation of Christ.
Tim K.
I am Christian, I’m not a fundie, but I like how expertly you laid that out.
Well done!
As for the comic, I hope she learns to feel neither shame nor guilt for their love. Some things are just pure even if fictional.
thejeff
Because, like pretty much every Christian group – or sect of any religion ever – they think they’re the ones who got it right. They’re the ones who took the corrupt and distorted teachings of mainstream religion back to the fundamental roots.
It’s not really true of course, but they believe it.
And frankly, I don’t think you’re any more right about the fundamentals than they are. I like your version better, but the Bible, even just the New Testament, is a complex group of texts from different viewpoints and with different intended messages – almost all of them even harder to interpret from the viewpoint of an incredibly different culture and with 2 millennia of assumptions stacked on top of them.
I like your principles, but it’s certainly not self evident from the NT that they’re the main focus. There’s a lot of other stuff in there and it depends on which you focus on and which texts you give priority to.
Roborat
I thought Paul/Saul basically hijacked the early Christian religion and was the source of the misogyny and a lot of the other not nice aspects of current Christianity?
Clif
We) said,Srifyn.
Clif
Er, well said.
thejeff
@Roborat: A common interpretation among those not fond of Christianity, but not clear how supported it really is. Remember that Paul’s letters are the earliest surviving works in the New Testament – our oldest glimpse into the beginnings of Christianity. Everything we know about what Jesus actually said comes from at least a generation later and much of it almost certainly influenced by Paul.
Colineo
Not a current or former fundamentalist Christian, but as domeone who has spent his fsir share of time in therapy, it’s nice to see a clear explanation of the distinction between shame and guilt.
Yumi
Honestly, the shame definition given here isn’t in alignment with what I have learned as a difference between them. Fine by me if that’s the working definition they use to make sense of it, just mine is more: guilt= I did something bad; shame= I am bad.
thejeff
That’s how I’ve seen it as well, though I don’t have experience with a Christian view on this.
thejeff
I can’t really see Becky making that distinction here. Using those definitions, if she’s not feeling guilt because she doesn’t think it was wrong, but shame because she things God would – that doesn’t fit with what we’ve seen of her take on God. Becky sees God as good – supportive and loving. If He’s disappointed in her, it’s because she’s actually done wrong. God isn’t wrong about what’s good and bad.
God answers lesbian prayers, despite her church teaching her otherwise. Becky doesn’t see God as a tyrant who has to catered to. Her views on premarital sex being wrong would only shift if her views on what God thought about it shifted with them.
Maybe? I think she’s doing more of that “flexible beliefs” stuff to try to convince herself that what she did is okay by God.
Now I’m not saying that what she did was wrong, because they’re both consenting adults. That being said, I’m not thrilled at the mental gymnastics she’s gotta do to believe that she’s still good with Evangelical Christianity.
It can’t be good for her mental health to latch onto religion while simultaneously burying the knowledge that said religion hates her for what she is. Something’s gotta give at some point, and I worry it’s going to come from some “good Christian” at her latest church trying to “save her soul” or some insanity like that.
I also think that, this is likely going to lead to a blowout with Dina one of these days. Dina treats Becky’s religion as something more or less like a cute character quirk, but for Becky, it’s kind of been her whole life thus far. She’s already had several major cracks in it what with her father, now Joyce, now this.
Earlier, she was thanking god for bringing Dina into her life, now, Dina has Led Her Down the Path of Temptation and Pre-Marital Sex, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Becky’s reaction was to blame her for that rather than admit it was her own choice or that she doesn’t agree with everything her religion has taught her.
Or she could be completely fine with it! She’s kind of weird in that respect, I’ve expected much worse reactions from her before and been wrong. (I thought her argument with Joyce was going to last a lot longer than like, a day comic time for example.)
Prince Mech
This was kind of incoherent because i was thinking of like three points at once, oops.
Bryy
Yeah, this is my interpretation of the singing as well. Sex may have been the last thing separating Becky from Joyce, in Becky’s eyes.
Paul
Sex may have been the last thing separating Becky from Joyce, in Becky’s eyes.
Actually, Becky now has a one-up on Joyce. I suspect that Becky will bring this up whenever she gets tired of arguing with Joyce. “I don’t have to listen to a coward who’s too afraid to get laid lecture me about casting off my Christian brainwashing” or something similar.
Z
Becky seems to be pretty solid on personal choice. I don’t think she would go down the path of blaming Dina for her sinning just because we’ve seen her on the other side of it so much and Dina has been good about checking in. Her first statement after pants euphoria was reaffirming Becky’s desire to wait.
It is possible that this will reach a breaking point where Dina just cannot understand why Becky is flagelating herself for a fictional character. If Becky has a breakdown because she was wrong in god’s eyes, I don’t know how Dina will react to that.
Dina has been okay with god mostly because he clearly seems to bring Becky joy – she probably sees it as akin to a child having a teddy bear. Harmless but brings comfort.
She couldn’t really empathize with the sexual frustration it was causing, and likely didn’t fully understand how much distress that Becky was under because of it. She likely saw it as Becky just not being ready and using that as an excuse. If she understood the messy duress it caused Becky, it’s possible she already would’ve been more harshly critical.
If her beleifs cause Becky to start feeling bad and beating herself up for an experience they both enjoyed – it is possible Dina will stop seeing this as a harmless comfort, and that could cause issues.
Given the smile, I don’t think so. Seems like an odd celebration. Based on how she said she feels toward this song, this is something of a cleansing ritual. A way to make ‘penance’ for the sin to so she can enjoy this guilt free!
Same, I don’t see any regret in her singing (at the very least, for now). And the Alt-text being the significant lyrics “let me remind you I’m the one who lead and guide you” makes me very hopeful she won’t have any big ones.
I think it’s hard to really read her face from one panel. Like, she could be really happy, or she could be freaking out.
Wraithy2773
Oh, guarantee that at least a small part of her is freaking out, but, well, that dam breaking can be a kinda big thing. The song she’s singing is just the song that she played after masturbating, and now is just a song that makes her horny because association is weird that way.
Yumi
Okay, have you read the third panel of that strip? Like yeah, association is weird. It can be dependent on a lot of things. Right now, I’d think she’s coming down from a horny high rather than getting horny again with the song. Sometimes in the post-horny wave, there can be pretty big feelings that aren’t all good, and I think that could be how the song is connecting here.
To me it looks more like ‘I’m really happy right now, but I shouldn’t be, and I kind of wish I wasn’t, because being happy means I am okay with having sinned, but I really am…’
I’m reading it the same, and glad she is happy. I hope it leads her to just being comfortable following what she actually wants, without having to worry about being eternally punished or messing up and upsetting her god.
D’awww that is so sweet, I hope the euphoria hangs around awhile. Also this is the perfect time for Joyce to show up unannounced and find them like this.
268 thoughts on “Condemn”
Ana Chronistic
*Amber comes in* OH NO THE RAPTOR ATE DINA AND BECKY
Ana Chronistic
come ON SATURDAY
The Wellerman
Are those sweat marks on their skin? ?
BarerMender
Yep!
Concolor44
If it was any good, they should be.
Hydrohead
They are glistening.
Wack'd
i don’t think the raptor ate them
ThunderNight
maybe it’s only holding them for later
Steamweed
Well _someone_ ate _someone_.
(out, that is)
((speaking of out, i’ll see myself there.))
Thag Simmons
They’ve been raptured
King Daniel
No no, raptor’d
Yet_One_More_Idiot
Your Becky.exe has stopped functioning properly following a general protection fault.
(A)bort, (R)etry, (I)gnore?
michaelinasmeal
they’re both women, no abort needed.
Deanatay
That DOES look like one contented raptor.
The Wellerman
My parasite senses indicate a significant chance that the upcoming Slipshine comic will be nothing much beyond 18 pages of HD naked snuggling. ?
Even if that’s the case though, that’s still awesome!!! ???
And for those who’d rather not tune this scene to Christian music for whatever reason:
*plays “Mysterious Starlit Sky” by Takanori Arisawa on Hacked Muzak*
? ? ? SO BEAUTIFUL!!!!
Mollyscribbles
I think it would be hilarious if it included Dina going on a tangent about dinosaur reproduction.
BarerMender
“We just don’t know!”
The Wellerman
I think that would make my whole YEAR. ?
Opus the Poet
There is much overlap between the “cloacal kiss” of hypothesised dinosaur reproduction and scissoring.
fudo81
This tumblr post suggests there might be a little more than just snuggling…
thejeff
The sweat suggests really intense snuggling at the very least.
True Survivor
Oh no, is Becky having regrets?
King Daniel
depends on whether she acted with integrity
Kyrik Michalowski
I think she is singing the song with regards to being forgiven for her sins. Now how Becky will feel about it later, especially if Joyce finds out, is anyone’s guess.
Yumi
“I will be forgiven for this” seems like an attempt at self-comforting in the face of regret.
goggleOgler
See https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/03-trial-and-sarah/goandsinnomore/ for more context on this specific song in this specific scenario. Seems like it’s more of a habit than anything.
Yumi
I know the strip, I know the song, I just don’t agree with that interpretation of how they’re fitting together here.
Wraithy2773
We’ll likely find out tomorrow.
Well, unless we cut away to another interlude. Then within the next week.
Well, unless that then cuts away to a different story.
Within the next month for sure. Probably.
Yumi
Watch as we just never come back to this particular arc.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Horny jail is being trapped in stasis… forever?
System of Eleven
Self-comfort, yes. Guilt, I don’t think so. There’s a difference between guilt and shame. Guilt is believing you have done something wrong and regretting tat you did it. Shame is believing that *other people* think it’s wrong and fearing their judgement if it’s find out. One can feel shame and guilt at the same time, but I think Becky is reaching a point where she’s struggling much more with the shame than the guilt.
For her, the shame is specifically directed at God, who supposedly knows absolutely everything and will send an unrepentant liar to eternal torment as quickly as an unrepentant murderer, because from his perspective all sins and imperfections are equally deserving of damnation. There is no way to hide what she’s done, and there is every reason to fear his response to it even if she doesn’t consider it to be inherently evil.
Hence Liz panicking with the belief that she ‘almost ruined herself forever’ after getting close to having premarital sex, compared to Becky who is more worried about the eternal consequences if God decides to condemn her. Liz believed the action itself was the problem; Becky believes that God’s perspective on the action is the problem.
Yumi
Interested in why you went into a discussion of distinction between guilt and shame when nobody in the thread had used either of those terms? Is it because of the idea of regret? Because that still seems like it could go with either guilt or shame– differently, perhaps, but still. Or was it just something you wanted share and bring into the discussion?
Chris Phoenix
As an ex-Christian fundie, it made perfect sense to me. Not in relation to what the thread is talking about, but in relation to what Becky is feeling and thinking.
She’s almost certainly feeling at least one of shame and guilt. The question is whether she thinks she did wrong – in which case she’d regret doing it. Or whether she just thinks God thinks she did wrong – in which case she’d probably want to “fix it forward” rather than regretting having done it.
Thing is, fundie Christianity has a very strong, though very inconsistent, redemption narrative. If you’re a televangelist who steals people’s money and cheats on his wife, you just have to say “I’ve prayed about it and God has forgiven me” and all the people will forgive you too and send more money. You probably don’t even have to give the stolen money back, much less treat your wife better. Just oopsie, I did the wrong thing, God forgave me, everything’s cool now.
It’s almost kind of a “get out of regret free” card…
Stifyn Baker
I hate the term ‘Christian Fundamentalist’, because of how FAR AWAY from the fundamental principles of Christianity most of them seem to be.
Christianity was founded (NOT by Jesus, but by his closest followers after his death and perceived resurrection) on five core principles:
1. Love everybody, whether you believe they deserve it or not.
2. Care for the poor, oppressed and vulnerable.
3. Live a life of service to others.
4. Comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable.
5. Spread principles 1 through 4 as widely as possible, persuading as many people as you can to act on them.
If you read the Book of Acts, which is basically the history of the founding of the Church, you will see these five principles being put into practice. Those are the “fundamentals” of Jesus’ message. There’s no call be believe in any form of scripture, no prescribed forms of worship, no mandate to oppress people over their race, gender, religious or sexual preference, no ban on sex between free, consenting adults unless one of them has already made a commitment to someone else.
So in my book, if you want to call yourself a Christian Fundamentalist, those five things better be what you’re doing, and you need to be careful about anything your tradition has thrown on top of them.
Spencer
Actually yeah that’s a good point. Why are they called fundamentalists anyway? The longest running gag about them is that they worship a 5ft Middle East Jewish socialist, but the fundamentals he preached don’t tend to mean much to them.
Is it more like “adhering to teachings, except those teachings are Fire & Brimstone/Biblical Literalism/I’m Innately Holier Than Thou”? Like say, they’re “following the fundamentals” except the fundamentals they were taught were the ones about Christianity as it exists on a cultural level of “White Jesus loves guns.”
Concolor44
PREACH IT!!!
I am so DONE with the American Evangelical approach to religion. It has, as you show, basically zilch to do with the imitation of Christ.
Tim K.
I am Christian, I’m not a fundie, but I like how expertly you laid that out.
Well done!
As for the comic, I hope she learns to feel neither shame nor guilt for their love. Some things are just pure even if fictional.
thejeff
Because, like pretty much every Christian group – or sect of any religion ever – they think they’re the ones who got it right. They’re the ones who took the corrupt and distorted teachings of mainstream religion back to the fundamental roots.
It’s not really true of course, but they believe it.
And frankly, I don’t think you’re any more right about the fundamentals than they are. I like your version better, but the Bible, even just the New Testament, is a complex group of texts from different viewpoints and with different intended messages – almost all of them even harder to interpret from the viewpoint of an incredibly different culture and with 2 millennia of assumptions stacked on top of them.
I like your principles, but it’s certainly not self evident from the NT that they’re the main focus. There’s a lot of other stuff in there and it depends on which you focus on and which texts you give priority to.
Roborat
I thought Paul/Saul basically hijacked the early Christian religion and was the source of the misogyny and a lot of the other not nice aspects of current Christianity?
Clif
We) said,Srifyn.
Clif
Er, well said.
thejeff
@Roborat: A common interpretation among those not fond of Christianity, but not clear how supported it really is. Remember that Paul’s letters are the earliest surviving works in the New Testament – our oldest glimpse into the beginnings of Christianity. Everything we know about what Jesus actually said comes from at least a generation later and much of it almost certainly influenced by Paul.
Colineo
Not a current or former fundamentalist Christian, but as domeone who has spent his fsir share of time in therapy, it’s nice to see a clear explanation of the distinction between shame and guilt.
Yumi
Honestly, the shame definition given here isn’t in alignment with what I have learned as a difference between them. Fine by me if that’s the working definition they use to make sense of it, just mine is more: guilt= I did something bad; shame= I am bad.
thejeff
That’s how I’ve seen it as well, though I don’t have experience with a Christian view on this.
thejeff
I can’t really see Becky making that distinction here. Using those definitions, if she’s not feeling guilt because she doesn’t think it was wrong, but shame because she things God would – that doesn’t fit with what we’ve seen of her take on God. Becky sees God as good – supportive and loving. If He’s disappointed in her, it’s because she’s actually done wrong. God isn’t wrong about what’s good and bad.
God answers lesbian prayers, despite her church teaching her otherwise. Becky doesn’t see God as a tyrant who has to catered to. Her views on premarital sex being wrong would only shift if her views on what God thought about it shifted with them.
Black
Maybe? I think she’s doing more of that “flexible beliefs” stuff to try to convince herself that what she did is okay by God.
Now I’m not saying that what she did was wrong, because they’re both consenting adults. That being said, I’m not thrilled at the mental gymnastics she’s gotta do to believe that she’s still good with Evangelical Christianity.
It can’t be good for her mental health to latch onto religion while simultaneously burying the knowledge that said religion hates her for what she is. Something’s gotta give at some point, and I worry it’s going to come from some “good Christian” at her latest church trying to “save her soul” or some insanity like that.
Prince Mech
I also think that, this is likely going to lead to a blowout with Dina one of these days. Dina treats Becky’s religion as something more or less like a cute character quirk, but for Becky, it’s kind of been her whole life thus far. She’s already had several major cracks in it what with her father, now Joyce, now this.
Earlier, she was thanking god for bringing Dina into her life, now, Dina has Led Her Down the Path of Temptation and Pre-Marital Sex, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Becky’s reaction was to blame her for that rather than admit it was her own choice or that she doesn’t agree with everything her religion has taught her.
Or she could be completely fine with it! She’s kind of weird in that respect, I’ve expected much worse reactions from her before and been wrong. (I thought her argument with Joyce was going to last a lot longer than like, a day comic time for example.)
Prince Mech
This was kind of incoherent because i was thinking of like three points at once, oops.
Bryy
Yeah, this is my interpretation of the singing as well. Sex may have been the last thing separating Becky from Joyce, in Becky’s eyes.
Paul
Actually, Becky now has a one-up on Joyce. I suspect that Becky will bring this up whenever she gets tired of arguing with Joyce. “I don’t have to listen to a coward who’s too afraid to get laid lecture me about casting off my Christian brainwashing” or something similar.
Z
Becky seems to be pretty solid on personal choice. I don’t think she would go down the path of blaming Dina for her sinning just because we’ve seen her on the other side of it so much and Dina has been good about checking in. Her first statement after pants euphoria was reaffirming Becky’s desire to wait.
It is possible that this will reach a breaking point where Dina just cannot understand why Becky is flagelating herself for a fictional character. If Becky has a breakdown because she was wrong in god’s eyes, I don’t know how Dina will react to that.
Dina has been okay with god mostly because he clearly seems to bring Becky joy – she probably sees it as akin to a child having a teddy bear. Harmless but brings comfort.
She couldn’t really empathize with the sexual frustration it was causing, and likely didn’t fully understand how much distress that Becky was under because of it. She likely saw it as Becky just not being ready and using that as an excuse. If she understood the messy duress it caused Becky, it’s possible she already would’ve been more harshly critical.
If her beleifs cause Becky to start feeling bad and beating herself up for an experience they both enjoyed – it is possible Dina will stop seeing this as a harmless comfort, and that could cause issues.
misanthropope
i choose to believe she’s revving her engine for when dina wakes up
Azhrei Vep
Fair idea. She did say that song just makes her horny now.
Zach
Does the Willis need damning?
Drama-bomb
CruizySuzy
Given the smile, I don’t think so. Seems like an odd celebration. Based on how she said she feels toward this song, this is something of a cleansing ritual. A way to make ‘penance’ for the sin to so she can enjoy this guilt free!
dralou
Same, I don’t see any regret in her singing (at the very least, for now). And the Alt-text being the significant lyrics “let me remind you I’m the one who lead and guide you” makes me very hopeful she won’t have any big ones.
tbf
I hope that singing doesn’t indicate regret or guilt on Becky’s part.
alongcameaspider
I mean her face doesn’t exactly seem regretful
Yumi
I think it’s hard to really read her face from one panel. Like, she could be really happy, or she could be freaking out.
Wraithy2773
Oh, guarantee that at least a small part of her is freaking out, but, well, that dam breaking can be a kinda big thing. The song she’s singing is just the song that she played after masturbating, and now is just a song that makes her horny because association is weird that way.
Yumi
Okay, have you read the third panel of that strip? Like yeah, association is weird. It can be dependent on a lot of things. Right now, I’d think she’s coming down from a horny high rather than getting horny again with the song. Sometimes in the post-horny wave, there can be pretty big feelings that aren’t all good, and I think that could be how the song is connecting here.
Fart Captor
It looks to ME like she’s having an epiphany
A sexy epiphany :3
The Wellerman
Dina-Morph…
Dina-Morph…
Does whatever
a Dina-Morph does….
zee
A sexpiphany, if you will
anonymsly
To me it looks more like ‘I’m really happy right now, but I shouldn’t be, and I kind of wish I wasn’t, because being happy means I am okay with having sinned, but I really am…’
Happy, but a little wishing she wasn’t.
Jinx
I read this pretty close to the same. Maybe with a bit of wonder at this new experience.
Comic.phile
I’m reading it the same, and glad she is happy. I hope it leads her to just being comfortable following what she actually wants, without having to worry about being eternally punished or messing up and upsetting her god.
Kyrik Michalowski
D’awww that is so sweet, I hope the euphoria hangs around awhile. Also this is the perfect time for Joyce to show up unannounced and find them like this.
King Daniel
time for the MOAFF
(mother of all freakout faces)
?
Kyrik Michalowski
Is that anything like the MOAB?
King Daniel
they have no chance to survive, make your time~