Which flippant as my snark may be, I don’t mean to say that there is intentional homophobia, just that there is often unconscious cultural stuff where characters and people with certain identities often get judged harsher and have less room for error.
It’s part of the reason why some guy babbling on about “girls, amirite” type crap will be given more time by the majority of people before being seen as being annoying than someone who is interpreted as being “aggressively gay” (see also the whole, “ugh, why do they have to shove it down our throats” dynamic).
It’s why women have less margin for standing up for what they believe in before being considered percussion instruments 😉 and why black people aren’t really allowed to publicly show their anger before being read as “dangerous” or otherwise dismissible.
It’s not intentionally or coming from an inherently wrong place, but it does create a dynamic where the margin for failure is a lot narrow for people with marginalized dynamics and its easier for those characters to be viewed negatively faster as this cultural dynamic is really hard to resist even if you are aware of it.
Arquinsiel
Of course, Sarah is also black. I think, realistically, people who follow these comics long enough to have a favourite character now are probably just those who enjoy the genre-savvy snark factory more than the reminder of how painfully intense they were when they were finding their identity as an adult and it’s not so much to do with unconscious biases.
I hope.
Arquinsiel
Unrelated, I love that I randomly ended up with Jacob for that comment. His glasses make it seem smarter. HURRAH!
El Chupacabre
Does your icon change across posts? I always have the same one.
gwalla
It’s determined by your email address. If you use a different email, you’ll probably get a different avatar (unless the hash function happens to reduce both addresses to the same number). They do get shuffled around whenever Willis adds a new avatar to the mix.
Arquinsiel
I think it’s the first time I’ve posted here rather than over on Shortpacked, and I never set a gravatar anywhere from sheer laziness so it’s a case of first time lucky I guess.
begbert2
I don’t care that Sarah is black or that Becky is gay. I care that Sarah seems to be a better *person* than Becky. Becky is messed-up, short-sighted, thoughtless, and very prone to generally unappealing behavior towards others. Sarah can be curt and rude, but when she insults somebody it’s for an actual reason and her analysis is generally right.
David M Willis
That first sentence sounds like you believe prejudice against black folks and gay folks is an entirely conscious or informed decision.
Eric
I get your point here, and you aren’t wrong, but at the same time that rabbit hole is pretty dark and deep. The problem with going down it is many fold.
Using the example of “I don’t like Sarah, she’s too bongoy and judgemental.”
1. Someone can be accused of racism in this case – and perhaps sexism – (or homophobia, or whatever in other cases) simply because someone doesn’t like the expressed opinion. “You’re saying that because you’re racist!” And if you try to defend yourself and say it has nothing to do with race, that gets hand waved away with the magic of societal programming, “You don’t even know you’re a racist, but you are!”
Of course that’s the same logic that says all men are racists (guys, how many of you are willing to sign on for that one?) and that woman are *incapable* of giving consent because they are weaker and all just brainwashed victims of the patriarchy (gals, how many are willing to sign up for that one?)
I’d say unless you see a pattern of behaviour, or overt behaviour, its a bit much to call someone a racist (or whatever) simply because they express a dislike of a black person.
2. On the other hand, it can be a far too convenient excuse for bad behaviour. “Not my fault, it’s society’s fault. I can’t help it.” And then continue being a jerk with a convenient lack of responsiblty for their actions.
I say B.S. We can choose not to do something. Our prejudices and biases will always be there, but unless we are totally clueless we can spot most of them, and keep the worst elements tied down.
3. Related to both above points. It’s easy then to say everyone is X. Which by definition is prejudice in its own right. And whether you’re saying “all Mexicans are criminals” (thanks Donald) or all whites are racist, it is pre-judging people (pre-judge, prejudice… Funny how that works).
Even growing up in an environment that is heavy with racism, sexism, homophobia, or whatever doesn’t guarantee that someone will be that thing. And even being one doesn’t mean you’ll stay one. And vice-versa, someone can develop prejudice as they go through life.
Prejudice is not an informed decision – hell, it seems like most people don’t make information decisions about most things. Nor is it entirely conscious. But neither is it without its logic (no matter how spurious that logic may be), nor is it something we are completely unaware of.
And it’s also not bihary; yes-no, on-off.
I read about a fellow who was middle aged back in the 50s and 60s. He was a racist, there wasn’t much doubt of that. But he fought against segregation, and he fought for equality for blacks, and more. That contradiction may seem hard to understand, but there it was.
Then there was the Republican (a congressman IIRC) who didn’t like gays, was against gay marriage, etc. And then one day he found himself sitting and talking with a gay couple and realized that they were just two people in love. It changed his attitude.
I doubt he went off to march in Gay Pride parades (or maybe he did) but at the least I bet he adopted a more ‘live and let live’ attitude. And there is nothing wrong with that.
Eric
Damn it, that should have read “all men are rapists”
I’m not even going to touch that particularly odd interpretation of Schroedinger’s Rapist, so instead I’ll just clarify a few things in my argument.
I’m not saying that people are being cartoonishly Donald Trumpianly bigoted in their responses, but rather that unconscious bias transmitted through culture has a small, but noticeable effect on people’s actions. And often times it is downright impossible to shake said inheritance even if you are an actively conscious member of the group being targeted (which is why internalized homophobia/sexism/racism is a thing).
It doesn’t make people bad people that this happens, it’s just a part of the culture that gives marginalized group members a little less slack, gives them a little harder road to clear, allows the majority to identify a little easier, and so on. Little things that are genuinely hard to notice if you aren’t a member of the group being affected directly by it and even then, not necessarily easy.
It’s more about the type of small stuff that leads to the effects noticed in studies where say black names or names traditionally gendered female on college applications and job applications get viewed as inherently less valuable than identical resumes with white names or names traditionally gendered male.
That sort of thing is not easy to escape entirely, even when one is actively trying to be conscious of it.
Dammit, the point of privilege and “any man could be a rapist” is not that you have to constantly be defending yourself, it’s to be -aware of the innate power you have and to make sure you are responsible in excercising it-.
If a feminist tells you “to a woman, any man could be a rapist”, the lesson to be learned is not that you are being punished, but that you need to be cautious when having intercourse because you could be intensely harming your partner even if you don’t intend it, just because of stuff like society telling women to “lie back and bear it”.
If your first response to “life is immensely unfair and people are suffering real, atrocious pain from that injustice” is to scramble to say “well, I don’t feel like it’s -my- fault!”, instead of “what can I do to help please tell me!”, then you’re the asshole.
“Even growing up in an environment that is heavy with racism, sexism, homophobia, or whatever doesn’t guarantee that someone will be that thing. And even being one doesn’t mean you’ll stay one. And vice-versa, someone can develop prejudice as they go through life.”
Being accused of being a racist or rapist is not the worst thing that can happen to a person. Yes, it’s an intensely painful experience, and it shouldn’t happen to anyone who doesn’t deserve it, but the things it is in response to are far more painful. The entire lesson to be learned is the same thing Spiderman tries to teach: Whites and Men have power, and they are fucking -scary- to everyone else — and the only way that’s going to end well is if they are aware of that, and take steps to mitigate it.
begbert2
M-My first sentence was to state that I don’t base my opinions on Sarah because of her color or on Becky because of her orientation. I mean, I’ve known Sarah for like *decades*, and I’ve been encountering gay people in comics (especially Willis comics), for years and years. I react to them differently than I do real-life people, because the context in which I know them is massively different. And since I’ve had such massive exposure to what they think and feel that that’s obviously what I’m going to base my opinions on.
This is not to say I’m totally free of racism or homophobia. Heck, I’m very likely a closet homophobe and could easily be a closet racist, simply because I’ve hardly *met* either type of person. (That I know of, in the case of gay people.) Unfamiliarity breeds, at the least, a momentary surprised reaction when I see a black person (or, say, a white person with a mohawk) walking down the streets of Boise, Idaho. This is despite my being intellectually and in my overt actions at least a mimicry of a decent person.
So yeah, I’m not perfect, but damn, am I know allowed to have an opinion of these fictional characters based on the many, many hours I’ve spent reading about them?
begbert2
“Am I not allowed”. Dammit.
WolfLann
Media is a lot to blame for reinforcing stereotypes and preconceptions. Putting emphasis on the race or sex of the perpetrator when it match a stereotype. News about a drug lord… he’s Mexican. A killing… Italian mob is suspected.
Of course all those reality TV shows don’t help either as they make a point of choosing the most obnoxiously stereotypical people they can find.
In the US when Obama became president I remember the media being so surprised about a black president they talk about it for weeks and weeks on end. In the 21st Century, this kind of thing should not be surprising or shocking but still is apparently.
I can imagine news room exploding when a non-Christian Korean women become their president. But of course Trump will have his say in this.
Shogo
KKoro: “Prejudice is OK when I do it. Your pain is less important than mine.”
KKoro
Shugo, you’re really good at being dishonest! Kudos.
As a white man (the group i was saying need to be aware of their power), yes, I’m allowed to judge myself.
Like I -actually- said, and like the opposite of what you tried to paint it as, the point of the privelege concept is not a free pass for everyone unlike me to “get their turn to be racist”, but for -people like me- to recognize that, by nature, we intimidate and scare those around us, -and that we need to be vigilant to not exploit that any more-.
You know, instead of sticking our head in the sand and claiming that everyone deserves exactly what they have, like you seem to be doing.
Shogo
Your point may have been somewhat obscured when you said that you’re an asshole if you defend yourself against false charges of being a racist or rapist.
… did you forget the strip where Amazi-Girl is asking Sarah about potential ding-dong bandit suspects, and she pretty much ragged on everyone in her hall, to the point where she said something like “And Rachel is too pretty to be a good person”? (sorry, don’t have time for an archive trawl to find the actual strip)
begbert2
When you’re asked if somebody’s a criminal you go into criticism mode, because assessing everybody’s dark side inherently requires criticism.
Speaking of which, what were *you* doing last night? (backs away)
NOTHING! Who’ve you been speaking to?
I did nothing, you saw nothing, I was never here.
^<____>^
*shoves begbert2 off of a cliff, runs away*
KKoro
Also, begbert, my first response was to eric, thats why I quoted him.
Cerberus
Very true. Sarah has different ranges where she is on a thinner edge and that has been reflected in receiving slightly less slack than say a Mike or a Joe on certain fuckups (such as the collapse of the Jacob friendship). Additionally, she definitely has other unconscious stuff applied against her (such as little calls for more focus on her and her stories even though she’s one of the main cast) and a similar reflection in the popularity polls.
But overall, it’s a bad example for me to pick as Sarah gets a lot of slack from the community for her actions owing to what she did for Joyce at the party and also for her shortly after.
And you are absolutely right that identification plays a huge role. Fewer people can probably relate to the experience of being a homeless queer youth desperately trying to cobble together an identity on the fly than that of a snarky genre-savvy smartass.
But yeah, good points all. I think your Jacob glasses are well-earned here.
Spencer
In regards to her and Jacob’s friend-break up, was there that much criticism of Sarah? I’m fairly critical of her myself, but I think we all understood that, while it wasn’t really good her actions were understandable given her neuroses. I’ve been in Sarah’s shoes and, while I wasn’t calling for fire and brimstone to rain upon her, my reaction was a lot of “stop! desist! talk to him!”
Sarah does genuinely frustrate me at times, even though I know a lot of her worst aspects are formed from bad experiences and that she’s capable of tremendous acts of love. If anything I get the feeling that, because of her problems (that I imagine a lot of people sympathize with), she gets her fair share from the fandom, in so far as every character has haters and defenders, anyway.
Arquinsiel
The homelessness didn’t even occur to me. I just remember how insufferable I was when I realised something about myself in my late teens that made the way I socialised totally different. I’m pretty sure 30 year old me would find 20 year old me to be the worst person ever due to that.
chris73
Sarahs my favourite because shes more often than not right when she says something, warned Joyce about what would happen at the party and then, even when she had no real reason to, saved Joyce and dealt to the asshole with a baseball bat
chris73
I mean no real reason to attend the party as both Dorothy and Billie were there to look out for Joyce
I dunno about “like” so much as “relate to”. Serious, annoyed by constant frivolity, and both exasperated by and overly protective of the Joyces of the world is someone that’s a lot easier to understand than most of the melodramatically overblown personalities in this strip.
Rycan
This pretty much explains it. There are other aspects that can be related to as well.
CCJitters
I like Sarah, because I can relate to her. I’ve been in her shoes all my life; criticized for doing what was right, even though it was incredibly hard for me to do. I’ve also developed serious trust issues and anxiety in large part due to these experiences. I’ve had friends tell me their first impression of me was awful because I seemed rude and standoffish to them, which was due to my anxiety. I have trouble making friends, and keeping them. I can see why people dislike Sarah, but it’s the outright hate that I don’t get. She saved Joyce from being raped and possibly killed, and even though she encouraged Joyce to report it to the police, she didn’t push when Sarah made the decision not to. She also took in Becky even though she thought it was an awful idea.
CCJitters
I meant Joyce, when Joyce made the decision not to report the attack to the police, Sarah didn’t give her a hard time about it.
Yeah well, y’know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.
Seriously, it’d take a poll or something to really know which characters are better liked by the readers, and if I had to bet on something, I bet the results would be pretty close in most cases. I don’t like Sarah any more, or less, than Becky, I think they’re both great characters. In fact, there are hardly any characters in the strip I don’t like.
Doesn’t Sarah usually score fairly low on the popularity polls? I know in the last one Becky had more votes than Dina for a while before settling into second place.
You’re right about Sarah, but I’d be interested to see how Becky would do in a poll now–when the last one ran, she’d just woken up the morning after her confession, and a lot of the irritation people had hadn’t happened yet.
Spencer
Heh, probably. God forbid Becky not be the perfect gay victim.
I never minded Sarah. Until That Story where she got her roommate kicked out because her grieving was an inconvenience to her. That’s the moment Sarah lost me completely.
251 thoughts on “Contractions”
Jen Aside
“You are trying to change the subject!”
“Dinosaurs are big lizards”
“DINOSAURS ARE MORE LIKE BIRDS“
Jen Aside
(me and my last-minute attempts at links)
DarkoNeko
More like first minute.
gwalla
Wow, that was a while ago, wasn’t it? USENET jokes, yikes! It’d be Reddit, these days.
Opus the Poet
Contract, Dina, you know you want to.
Rowen Morland
Noooooo!
DarkoNeko
You called ? ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼
Eric
But somehow Sarah is a more well liked character than Becky.
Airyu
I doubt it at this point. Maybe a chapter ago.
masterofbones
At least Sarah has slightly more of a personality than “lesbian”.
Tenn
. . .
Spencer
Why do people make these aggressively terrible posts?
You don’t have to like Becky. Not liking Becky is a perfectly viable alternative. But maybe don’t sling shit like that in here.
madock345
Sarah is awesome. Her assholishness is a large part of that.
Becky… Becky’s okay. I’ve never *hated* anything about her (aside from her haircut.) but she doesn’t make me laugh nearly as much as Sarah does.
Snograt
Assholier than thou?
newllend(henryvolt)
Well nobody asked for a mix of both Walky and Joyce, But I’m also not complaining about it.
Cerberus
Yes, but you see Sarah is straight.
Cerberus
Which flippant as my snark may be, I don’t mean to say that there is intentional homophobia, just that there is often unconscious cultural stuff where characters and people with certain identities often get judged harsher and have less room for error.
It’s part of the reason why some guy babbling on about “girls, amirite” type crap will be given more time by the majority of people before being seen as being annoying than someone who is interpreted as being “aggressively gay” (see also the whole, “ugh, why do they have to shove it down our throats” dynamic).
It’s why women have less margin for standing up for what they believe in before being considered percussion instruments 😉 and why black people aren’t really allowed to publicly show their anger before being read as “dangerous” or otherwise dismissible.
It’s not intentionally or coming from an inherently wrong place, but it does create a dynamic where the margin for failure is a lot narrow for people with marginalized dynamics and its easier for those characters to be viewed negatively faster as this cultural dynamic is really hard to resist even if you are aware of it.
Arquinsiel
Of course, Sarah is also black. I think, realistically, people who follow these comics long enough to have a favourite character now are probably just those who enjoy the genre-savvy snark factory more than the reminder of how painfully intense they were when they were finding their identity as an adult and it’s not so much to do with unconscious biases.
I hope.
Arquinsiel
Unrelated, I love that I randomly ended up with Jacob for that comment. His glasses make it seem smarter. HURRAH!
El Chupacabre
Does your icon change across posts? I always have the same one.
gwalla
It’s determined by your email address. If you use a different email, you’ll probably get a different avatar (unless the hash function happens to reduce both addresses to the same number). They do get shuffled around whenever Willis adds a new avatar to the mix.
Arquinsiel
I think it’s the first time I’ve posted here rather than over on Shortpacked, and I never set a gravatar anywhere from sheer laziness so it’s a case of first time lucky I guess.
begbert2
I don’t care that Sarah is black or that Becky is gay. I care that Sarah seems to be a better *person* than Becky. Becky is messed-up, short-sighted, thoughtless, and very prone to generally unappealing behavior towards others. Sarah can be curt and rude, but when she insults somebody it’s for an actual reason and her analysis is generally right.
David M Willis
That first sentence sounds like you believe prejudice against black folks and gay folks is an entirely conscious or informed decision.
Eric
I get your point here, and you aren’t wrong, but at the same time that rabbit hole is pretty dark and deep. The problem with going down it is many fold.
Using the example of “I don’t like Sarah, she’s too bongoy and judgemental.”
1. Someone can be accused of racism in this case – and perhaps sexism – (or homophobia, or whatever in other cases) simply because someone doesn’t like the expressed opinion. “You’re saying that because you’re racist!” And if you try to defend yourself and say it has nothing to do with race, that gets hand waved away with the magic of societal programming, “You don’t even know you’re a racist, but you are!”
Of course that’s the same logic that says all men are racists (guys, how many of you are willing to sign on for that one?) and that woman are *incapable* of giving consent because they are weaker and all just brainwashed victims of the patriarchy (gals, how many are willing to sign up for that one?)
I’d say unless you see a pattern of behaviour, or overt behaviour, its a bit much to call someone a racist (or whatever) simply because they express a dislike of a black person.
2. On the other hand, it can be a far too convenient excuse for bad behaviour. “Not my fault, it’s society’s fault. I can’t help it.” And then continue being a jerk with a convenient lack of responsiblty for their actions.
I say B.S. We can choose not to do something. Our prejudices and biases will always be there, but unless we are totally clueless we can spot most of them, and keep the worst elements tied down.
3. Related to both above points. It’s easy then to say everyone is X. Which by definition is prejudice in its own right. And whether you’re saying “all Mexicans are criminals” (thanks Donald) or all whites are racist, it is pre-judging people (pre-judge, prejudice… Funny how that works).
Even growing up in an environment that is heavy with racism, sexism, homophobia, or whatever doesn’t guarantee that someone will be that thing. And even being one doesn’t mean you’ll stay one. And vice-versa, someone can develop prejudice as they go through life.
Prejudice is not an informed decision – hell, it seems like most people don’t make information decisions about most things. Nor is it entirely conscious. But neither is it without its logic (no matter how spurious that logic may be), nor is it something we are completely unaware of.
And it’s also not bihary; yes-no, on-off.
I read about a fellow who was middle aged back in the 50s and 60s. He was a racist, there wasn’t much doubt of that. But he fought against segregation, and he fought for equality for blacks, and more. That contradiction may seem hard to understand, but there it was.
Then there was the Republican (a congressman IIRC) who didn’t like gays, was against gay marriage, etc. And then one day he found himself sitting and talking with a gay couple and realized that they were just two people in love. It changed his attitude.
I doubt he went off to march in Gay Pride parades (or maybe he did) but at the least I bet he adopted a more ‘live and let live’ attitude. And there is nothing wrong with that.
Eric
Damn it, that should have read “all men are rapists”
Historyman68
That’s quite a correction. What was “bongoy” supposed to be?
Cerberus
I’m not even going to touch that particularly odd interpretation of Schroedinger’s Rapist, so instead I’ll just clarify a few things in my argument.
I’m not saying that people are being cartoonishly Donald Trumpianly bigoted in their responses, but rather that unconscious bias transmitted through culture has a small, but noticeable effect on people’s actions. And often times it is downright impossible to shake said inheritance even if you are an actively conscious member of the group being targeted (which is why internalized homophobia/sexism/racism is a thing).
It doesn’t make people bad people that this happens, it’s just a part of the culture that gives marginalized group members a little less slack, gives them a little harder road to clear, allows the majority to identify a little easier, and so on. Little things that are genuinely hard to notice if you aren’t a member of the group being affected directly by it and even then, not necessarily easy.
It’s more about the type of small stuff that leads to the effects noticed in studies where say black names or names traditionally gendered female on college applications and job applications get viewed as inherently less valuable than identical resumes with white names or names traditionally gendered male.
That sort of thing is not easy to escape entirely, even when one is actively trying to be conscious of it.
KKoro
Dammit, the point of privilege and “any man could be a rapist” is not that you have to constantly be defending yourself, it’s to be -aware of the innate power you have and to make sure you are responsible in excercising it-.
If a feminist tells you “to a woman, any man could be a rapist”, the lesson to be learned is not that you are being punished, but that you need to be cautious when having intercourse because you could be intensely harming your partner even if you don’t intend it, just because of stuff like society telling women to “lie back and bear it”.
If your first response to “life is immensely unfair and people are suffering real, atrocious pain from that injustice” is to scramble to say “well, I don’t feel like it’s -my- fault!”, instead of “what can I do to help please tell me!”, then you’re the asshole.
KKoro
“Even growing up in an environment that is heavy with racism, sexism, homophobia, or whatever doesn’t guarantee that someone will be that thing. And even being one doesn’t mean you’ll stay one. And vice-versa, someone can develop prejudice as they go through life.”
Being accused of being a racist or rapist is not the worst thing that can happen to a person. Yes, it’s an intensely painful experience, and it shouldn’t happen to anyone who doesn’t deserve it, but the things it is in response to are far more painful. The entire lesson to be learned is the same thing Spiderman tries to teach: Whites and Men have power, and they are fucking -scary- to everyone else — and the only way that’s going to end well is if they are aware of that, and take steps to mitigate it.
begbert2
M-My first sentence was to state that I don’t base my opinions on Sarah because of her color or on Becky because of her orientation. I mean, I’ve known Sarah for like *decades*, and I’ve been encountering gay people in comics (especially Willis comics), for years and years. I react to them differently than I do real-life people, because the context in which I know them is massively different. And since I’ve had such massive exposure to what they think and feel that that’s obviously what I’m going to base my opinions on.
This is not to say I’m totally free of racism or homophobia. Heck, I’m very likely a closet homophobe and could easily be a closet racist, simply because I’ve hardly *met* either type of person. (That I know of, in the case of gay people.) Unfamiliarity breeds, at the least, a momentary surprised reaction when I see a black person (or, say, a white person with a mohawk) walking down the streets of Boise, Idaho. This is despite my being intellectually and in my overt actions at least a mimicry of a decent person.
So yeah, I’m not perfect, but damn, am I know allowed to have an opinion of these fictional characters based on the many, many hours I’ve spent reading about them?
begbert2
“Am I not allowed”. Dammit.
WolfLann
Media is a lot to blame for reinforcing stereotypes and preconceptions. Putting emphasis on the race or sex of the perpetrator when it match a stereotype. News about a drug lord… he’s Mexican. A killing… Italian mob is suspected.
Of course all those reality TV shows don’t help either as they make a point of choosing the most obnoxiously stereotypical people they can find.
In the US when Obama became president I remember the media being so surprised about a black president they talk about it for weeks and weeks on end. In the 21st Century, this kind of thing should not be surprising or shocking but still is apparently.
I can imagine news room exploding when a non-Christian Korean women become their president. But of course Trump will have his say in this.
Shogo
KKoro: “Prejudice is OK when I do it. Your pain is less important than mine.”
KKoro
Shugo, you’re really good at being dishonest! Kudos.
As a white man (the group i was saying need to be aware of their power), yes, I’m allowed to judge myself.
Like I -actually- said, and like the opposite of what you tried to paint it as, the point of the privelege concept is not a free pass for everyone unlike me to “get their turn to be racist”, but for -people like me- to recognize that, by nature, we intimidate and scare those around us, -and that we need to be vigilant to not exploit that any more-.
You know, instead of sticking our head in the sand and claiming that everyone deserves exactly what they have, like you seem to be doing.
Shogo
Your point may have been somewhat obscured when you said that you’re an asshole if you defend yourself against false charges of being a racist or rapist.
Dragon_Nataku
… did you forget the strip where Amazi-Girl is asking Sarah about potential ding-dong bandit suspects, and she pretty much ragged on everyone in her hall, to the point where she said something like “And Rachel is too pretty to be a good person”? (sorry, don’t have time for an archive trawl to find the actual strip)
begbert2
When you’re asked if somebody’s a criminal you go into criticism mode, because assessing everybody’s dark side inherently requires criticism.
Speaking of which, what were *you* doing last night? (backs away)
Dragon_Nataku
NOTHING! Who’ve you been speaking to?
I did nothing, you saw nothing, I was never here.
^<____>^
*shoves begbert2 off of a cliff, runs away*
KKoro
Also, begbert, my first response was to eric, thats why I quoted him.
Cerberus
Very true. Sarah has different ranges where she is on a thinner edge and that has been reflected in receiving slightly less slack than say a Mike or a Joe on certain fuckups (such as the collapse of the Jacob friendship). Additionally, she definitely has other unconscious stuff applied against her (such as little calls for more focus on her and her stories even though she’s one of the main cast) and a similar reflection in the popularity polls.
But overall, it’s a bad example for me to pick as Sarah gets a lot of slack from the community for her actions owing to what she did for Joyce at the party and also for her shortly after.
And you are absolutely right that identification plays a huge role. Fewer people can probably relate to the experience of being a homeless queer youth desperately trying to cobble together an identity on the fly than that of a snarky genre-savvy smartass.
But yeah, good points all. I think your Jacob glasses are well-earned here.
Spencer
In regards to her and Jacob’s friend-break up, was there that much criticism of Sarah? I’m fairly critical of her myself, but I think we all understood that, while it wasn’t really good her actions were understandable given her neuroses. I’ve been in Sarah’s shoes and, while I wasn’t calling for fire and brimstone to rain upon her, my reaction was a lot of “stop! desist! talk to him!”
Sarah does genuinely frustrate me at times, even though I know a lot of her worst aspects are formed from bad experiences and that she’s capable of tremendous acts of love. If anything I get the feeling that, because of her problems (that I imagine a lot of people sympathize with), she gets her fair share from the fandom, in so far as every character has haters and defenders, anyway.
Arquinsiel
The homelessness didn’t even occur to me. I just remember how insufferable I was when I realised something about myself in my late teens that made the way I socialised totally different. I’m pretty sure 30 year old me would find 20 year old me to be the worst person ever due to that.
chris73
Sarahs my favourite because shes more often than not right when she says something, warned Joyce about what would happen at the party and then, even when she had no real reason to, saved Joyce and dealt to the asshole with a baseball bat
chris73
I mean no real reason to attend the party as both Dorothy and Billie were there to look out for Joyce
thelastnerd
Wait… there are people that like Sarah?
Arianod
SURPRISED? *w*
Zan Thrax
I dunno about “like” so much as “relate to”. Serious, annoyed by constant frivolity, and both exasperated by and overly protective of the Joyces of the world is someone that’s a lot easier to understand than most of the melodramatically overblown personalities in this strip.
Rycan
This pretty much explains it. There are other aspects that can be related to as well.
CCJitters
I like Sarah, because I can relate to her. I’ve been in her shoes all my life; criticized for doing what was right, even though it was incredibly hard for me to do. I’ve also developed serious trust issues and anxiety in large part due to these experiences. I’ve had friends tell me their first impression of me was awful because I seemed rude and standoffish to them, which was due to my anxiety. I have trouble making friends, and keeping them. I can see why people dislike Sarah, but it’s the outright hate that I don’t get. She saved Joyce from being raped and possibly killed, and even though she encouraged Joyce to report it to the police, she didn’t push when Sarah made the decision not to. She also took in Becky even though she thought it was an awful idea.
CCJitters
I meant Joyce, when Joyce made the decision not to report the attack to the police, Sarah didn’t give her a hard time about it.
Muspel
Sarah is awesome, and I will fight anyone that says otherwise.*
*No, I will not really fight them. I would probably lose.
Disloyal Subject
If they’re willing to come to me, I’d fight them in your stead.
I don’t feel strongly about it, but I need more sparring partners.
takashid
are you kidding? Sarah has and will forever be my #1 favorite character ever since the “Old Testament God” strip.
Scordo
Yeah, that strip was awesome. sarah has been my favorite for a while, I kept hoping that she would be a magnet.
Arianod
Yeah well, y’know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.
Seriously, it’d take a poll or something to really know which characters are better liked by the readers, and if I had to bet on something, I bet the results would be pretty close in most cases. I don’t like Sarah any more, or less, than Becky, I think they’re both great characters. In fact, there are hardly any characters in the strip I don’t like.
Rycan
Well, more like an assumption.
Spencer
Doesn’t Sarah usually score fairly low on the popularity polls? I know in the last one Becky had more votes than Dina for a while before settling into second place.
Greenygal
You’re right about Sarah, but I’d be interested to see how Becky would do in a poll now–when the last one ran, she’d just woken up the morning after her confession, and a lot of the irritation people had hadn’t happened yet.
Spencer
Heh, probably. God forbid Becky not be the perfect gay victim.
Rycan
Nor had the Dina kiss. Should be interesting.
SonicBlueRanger
I never minded Sarah. Until That Story where she got her roommate kicked out because her grieving was an inconvenience to her. That’s the moment Sarah lost me completely.
Doctor_Who
She has got me doing it too.
Nono
Man, remember when Faye didn’t use contractions?
Cephalo the Pod
Wait, really?
Nono
It was a thing early on in the comic. Everytime she dropped one it became a ‘BIG DEAL MAN FAYE IS BECOMING MORE COMFORTABLE AROUND THESE GUYS.’
tim gueguen
Yep, that was one of her things in the early days of QC. She only used them when she got drunk, which also brought her southern accent back.
JessWitt
Dina is also hiding her Southern accent, too.
Dean
SHOCK TWIST: Dina killed Faye’s father.
Doctor_Who
Dina went to the same boarding school as Sal.
DarkoNeko
Definitly. It’s the first char I’ve seen it mentionned for (tho english being my 3rd language, it’s not something I’d really have noticed)
Arikel
Too bad JJ ran out of ideas for a story a while back and now it’s just bland mini-stories.
Someone