Liz is only here for a few hours? She has a ride back. And yet, here she is? Something is off kilter.
She’s now hopelessly addicted to the men’s multivitamins and can’t help herself. It’s the only logical explanation.
Decidedly Orthogonal
It’s Liz. I think she’s here for either
a) being where she was hanging out/looking for the gang (unlikely)
or
b) the dispenser of afformentioned ‘edibles’ for another kind of edible.
Danny’s got the right answer: “things are good here, sod off thine disturber of feces”
Jason
Uh, I immediately assumed c- proving Sarah right by going after Joyce’s “friends with benefits”. Either because of or despite the fact that she thinks Joyce regularly sleeps with him.
Jason
Oh wait that’s what you meant when you said “another kind of edible” isn’t it? Sorry, I missed the subtext there.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Know what I mean, know what I mean? Say no more. Say. No. More.
Does anyone else think Danny has the capacity to cheat? Because the boy tore himself into pieces realizing he had a bit of feels for Amber while dating Amazi-Girl, who, much to the surprise of many, is the same person.
Like if Sal walked in on a Harem Anime Cliche Scene would she get upset or would she go “pft right.”
I think Sal’s fear of trusting would take over before she realized just how ridiculous the idea of Danny cheating is. She’s more likely to assume “I was right, can’t trust these hoes” instead of “I’m sure there’s a reasonable explanation for this”.
Spencer
Yeah, probably.
It’d still be funny if Sal’s crippling fears of opening up to someone failing to take hold when confronted with the possibility of Danny being unfaithful.
Like this big misunderstanding happens, Sal tells Amber and she just starts laughing before “oh you were serious. Have you met him? He thought he was cheating on me with me.“
Also I am admittedly making a lot of assumptions based on previous knowledge but Liz is looking like kind of a scumbag right now. Cause the only reason she could be here is to try and bang Joe who she believes is in a relationship (albeit casual) with Joyce. Not a good look.
I admit that I completely forgot that was foreshadowed, but now that you bring it up that is definitely the established plotline, given we’re establishing Liz as a bad person.
Though also given the track record of Willis’ writing, I fully expect us to see some good facets of her eventually. Like with Ruth and Radiah, who when we first met them weren’t shown with any redeeming qualities, but we eventually wrapped around to get a full scope. Which doesn’t justify shitty behavior, of course.
jflb96
Raidah has redeeming qualities?
Jon
Seconded. When has Raidah ever demonstrated any redeeming qualities?
Bryy
Yeah. Raidah has outright stated that she is controlling Jacob’s life, and she is also in the New Bad Group.
DrunkenNordmann
You know how sometimes when we’re getting introduced to characters, they seem like arseholes, but when we get to know them more, that impression fades?
Raidah is not that.
Spencer
We should probably save that call for when we, like, get to know her more.
(Like in the upcoming chapter called Trial and Sarah)
zee
Raidah less has redeeming qualities, more you feel a little bad that someone was outright conspiring to steal her boyfriend/make him cheat. Or the commentariat guilt tripped you for hating a brown woman despite the fact that she’s insanely elitist and classic, and has been shown in a purely negative light
Spencer
I think it’s normal to hate her now, because we don’t really know anything about her other than in relation to Sarah, a sympathetic protagonist who has a beef with her.
Like Ruth at the start, or how Daisy’s personality for 11 years was Lesbian until she went out with Ruth and got some character depth.
zee
I don’t doubt that she’ll get some redeeming traits in the future. And we also know her in relation to other sympathetic protagonists (condescending to Dina bc she’s ND, looking down on Joyce for being slightly younger and not aiming to be a millionaire. Y’know instead of looking down on her for trying to seduce her boyfriend which would be very valid and reasonable)
Spencer
She did look down on Dina for her socialization problems (in that Raidah was judging her on those since she obviously doesn’t know that Dina is neurodivergent as a fact), much like Amber does, and the rest of the cast that one time at Joyce’s dorm party before Dina told them all to fuck off.
So here’s how I see it as someone with ASD and ADHD; it is extremely easy for people to be compassionate, but through the lens of outright condescension. They want to help us because we’re helpless idiot children who need the world patiently explained to us, and displaying any kind of resentment for this treatment is baffling to them because omg, I’m just trying to be nice.
Much like Becky’s complete misunderstanding of Dina’s sexual appetite, the misunderstanding of neurodivergent people is a blaring white noise to our lives, and it’s a blaring white noise because otherwise normal and understanding people indulge in it without really understanding, the way one would used to say “I’m not gay… not that there’s anything wrong with that!” It’s something that needs to change, but it’s not where it should be now, and so stories about living with neurodivergence can depict that lived reality even as it also shows ways to be healthy and respectful, like how Becky is super respectful and admiring of Dina and treats everything she says at face value with dignity, or how Joe is comfortable talking about sex with her because he knows Sex Things and understands it’s a topic Dina doesn’t feel the need to dance around.
As for the Joyce thing, well, I do think that was indicative of Raidah as a social climber, I think that’s at least a fairly clearly textual element to her character for all the ones she’s got given her new posse of weird jerks patting themselves on the back for growing up (and Carl who has done nothing wrong), but I don’t think her talking down to Joyce was entirely based on Joyce’s career choice, so much as she needed to find a way to diminish someone her friends told her was sniffing around her boyfriend and she should worry, and so settled on why her career choice was dumb.
I’m being open to other interpretations of Raidah’s character if only because we haven’t really seen her enough for me to make a hard read, but I think we’ve seen enough of her that room for interpretation exists, like how Daisy had no personality until she suddenly did with Ruth.
Rocket Relm
Let’s also remember that Raidah criticized her friend for using a slur against Dina in that same scene, which implies her ‘condescension’ wasn’t some false show to mock, but rooted in an actual feeling she had. Her reaction against Sarah feels to me like an overactive defensive mechanism. For all her behavior is crappy, she mostly tries to maintain distance (spare the beginning when the situation was fresh and she was being an asshole). And let’s not forget that Sarah’s engaged in crappy behavior back (violent assault, a long term plan to break her up with her boyfriend), she’s just more sympathetic due to being the PoV.
Really, if we knew as little about Sarah as we knew about Raidah, and we knew as much about Raidah as we do Sarah, I could honestly see a lot of people being on her side. Especially if it turns out the friend who got sent home got sent to a place that Isn’t Safe like Ruth would have been if she’d been sent packing.
Spencer
Yeah that’s how I’m rolling with it.
There’s too much room for ambiguity and interpretation with Raidah for me to just go ” yep, evil”, especially when the last two strips had Sarah at her worst
thejeff
@Rocket Relm: The situation wasn’t that fresh in the beginning, when she harassed Sarah out of the blue a couple of times. Fresh to us, but the entire summer and a good part of the previous year had passed for them. It’s at least implied that those interactions were the resumption of a long campaign of harassment, which had helped to isolate Sarah for the past year. Raidah only started maintaining difference after that violent assault, for better or worse.
Without the context of a year of social bullying, Sarah punching her seems really bad. Even with it, the plan to take Jacob from her was bad – and was portrayed as such throughout, leading to Sarah dropping it and it blowing up in Joyce’s face.
Spencer
I don’t think that’s implied at all, but it’s certainly a reasonable conclusion to draw. The last thing Raidah says to Sarah in the flashback is to stay away from her, so I think that’s an implication that Raidah only ever lashes out at her when they crossed paths, which, still wrong.
And, y’know, whatever “not according to Dana, last I checked” means.
I kinda read that initial (of two) instances where Raidah provokes her as a way of setting up the late reveal of why Sarah ratted her roommate out for using illegal drugs, since it initially comes off as Sarah being a narc.
thejeff
That was an arguable point before the whole Jacob/Joyce/Raidah thing. During that though we learned that she was classist, manipulative and scheming and we learned absolutely nothing redeeming about her.
Maybe she does have hidden depths, but at this point Willis has gone out of his way to avoid showing them to us.
She was shown not just in relation to Sarah, but also Jacob and Joyce, in a sequence in which the narrative clearly put Joyce in the wrong and yet we still didn’t get anything positive about her.
Spencer
I don’t think any of that was made absolutely clear, but we have different reads on her on account of there not being much there, if only for the time being.
Like I sure as hell don’t read that little “Jacob needs me” thing as “I need to control Jacob” without room for interpretation, given how torn up she was after he broke up with her, it kind of struck me more as “Jacob needs me because I have worth to him.”
But, again, we’re talking about a character who only shows up in an antagonistic capacity to someone we like more than her.
The only reason that comes to mind to me is she actually cares about Joyce and/or the consequences of her running off when voices got raised and Joe is a low risk source
Sirksome
What could Joe possibly offer in this situation at all? He wasn’t involved. Not saying she couldn’t be seeking advice from Joe but the question is why? If Liz cared about Joyce she’d go apologize to her, she knows where her dorm is.
Fuzzy
Going to Joyce’s room means seeing Sarah, and she might not want to be vulnerable in front of Sarah by doing something like apologizing. I don’t personally think it’s why she’s here, but going to Joyce’s supposed best friend because she cares isn’t out of the realm of possibility.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Moar Man-Pills(TM)
Needfuldoer
Joe was there when the drama bomb went off, she can at least get background information from him. We can’t assume she knows who Becky is and why this conflict is so important.
I mean, logically there are many reasons she could be there, considering she spent an entire afternoon there playing Mario Kart.
Maybe she forgot her wallet.
Maybe she feels guilty about abusing Joe’s hospitality and is here to say thank you.
Maybe she missed her bus and wants to look up a schedule, but feels awkward going back to Sarah/Joyce seeing how poorly they left off.
Maybe she wants to apologize to Sarah/Joyce and doesn’t know how to because she doesn’t know what the hell happened, and Joe seemed to actually know.
Maybe she’s here to buy weed off Joe.
Personally, I like the idea that she’s trying to buy an edible off Joe. Or decided her Men’s Vitamin was laced with something and is here to punch him over it.
Rocket Relm
While I’d be tremendously and pleasantly surprised if she was actually back for some benign or positive reason, I’m pretty sure Liz’s role in this story is to serve as the Bad Gal, something to point to and say “don’t have the thought that christianity is dumb, you don’t want to become her, do you?” She’ll be allowed to have nuance in later elements of the story I’m sure, but until Joyce gets his with the karma anvil and learns her lesson (which Liz will probably be part of), I don’t think Liz will be presented with redeeming qualities.
I’d be delighted to be wrong about the narrative here, though.
Spencer
I mean, she’s not really bad on any capacity. At worst she thinks Christianity is dumb, which could be born from whatever is compelling her to continue lying to her folks, or maybe she’s 18 and sorts edgy about the most powerful religious institution in the continent she lives on
Take it from someone who’s been where you’re at: you gotta let characters exist instead of thinking about their purpose.
I mean, Joyce indicated it was casual, not committed. And Joyce’s comments could be read as a recommendation of Joe’s skill. Liz might believe that Joyce would be fully okay with her banging Joe as well.
Not that I think Liz needs benefit of the doubt after her previous actions – just that, in this case, I don’t really see any issue based on the information Liz was given.
Sirksome
Admittedly not experience with modern interpersonal sexual relationships between friends but that feels like something you at least run by both people in the relationship first instead of visiting one on the side after dark. But I am no longer hip so maybe it’s cool and I’m just a square as proven by me using vocabulary like “hip” and “square”.
i’d say it’s a gray area? on the face of it, Joyce did say they were casual. in Liz’s fantasy, which Joyce did nothing to dissuade, Joe’s the “den of sin” guy. he’s just getting it on with half the campus anyway.
but yeah i would absolutely advise caution and communication etc, esp when you’re being posturing 18 year olds who think they’ve got the hang of this free love thing, and then find out that they actually have Strong Feelings about who who they bang, bangs (story as old as… well, the 60’s at least)
source: i may have fucked around and found out! quite literally.
Spencer
Joe and Joyce are friends with reward programs, or, there’s no stated commitment. It’s not something where anyone involved would be expected to run it by anyone else.
eh, it’s the difference between a contractual obligation and social etiquette. it’s not that it’s your fault if it blows up, but had you erred on the side of caution you might have avoided a blowup in the first place.
if it’s me, i’m absolutely checking in with the pal who said they were happy-go-lucky, no-strings-attached fuckbuddies. if it is that simple and straightforward, good, glad i got it confirmed, on to the fun part. if it isn’t, well that’s a bullet dodged y’know?
Needfuldoer
We know Joe’s got it bad for Joyce. Even if Liz is genuinely here for a roll in the hay, this could be the story setting him up to decide for himself if he really wants more casual hookups, or…
Mostly because I don’t think Joe is capable of saying out loud that he likes her, because the minute he does he’s made it Feelings, and all Joe can do with Feelings is ruin them, especially Joyce’s; he’s already done wrong there.
Geneseepaws
Mommy? If that man is so important, how come he’s not wearing any clothes?
Roborat
Now you have me wondering where that “roll in the hay” phrase came from. Seems to me that it would be scratchy, stabby and painful, and certainly not fun.
Sam
Expected? No. But should you anyway to absolutely make sure there is no blow up? Yes. Because if you’re just looking for a fun casual thing, you don’t want to accidentally knock a bee’s nest onto your own head because your friend or the other person postured in front of the other but things are actually messier than stated.
Liz is dead wrong. On that note, I think we lost something as a civilization, when it stopped being cool to kill people for insulting you in your own home.
229 thoughts on “Darkness”
Ana Chronistic
You thought it was not Sal, but it was I, LIZ!
Nayann Martinelli
DAMN YOU, LIZ! (Yelled in the most dramatic and theatrical way)
Clif
Liz is only here for a few hours? She has a ride back. And yet, here she is? Something is off kilter.
She’s now hopelessly addicted to the men’s multivitamins and can’t help herself. It’s the only logical explanation.
Decidedly Orthogonal
It’s Liz. I think she’s here for either
a) being where she was hanging out/looking for the gang (unlikely)
or
b) the dispenser of afformentioned ‘edibles’ for another kind of edible.
Danny’s got the right answer: “things are good here, sod off thine disturber of feces”
Jason
Uh, I immediately assumed c- proving Sarah right by going after Joyce’s “friends with benefits”. Either because of or despite the fact that she thinks Joyce regularly sleeps with him.
Jason
Oh wait that’s what you meant when you said “another kind of edible” isn’t it? Sorry, I missed the subtext there.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Know what I mean, know what I mean? Say no more. Say. No. More.
Doctor_Who
“Liz, freelance haberdashery critic. My work here is done!”
(Later)
**Knock knock**
“Don’t like the hat.”
“HOMPKE!”
(violence ensues)
milu
my ass, i have laughed it off XD
Roborat
That had me laughing picturing it, nicely done.
Lux
Please don’t let there be some misunderstanding involving Sal and Liz 🙁
Librain
I dunno, I can think of several misunderstandings between the two that would make the slipshine patrons rather happy…
Spencer
You know, that’s a conundrum.
Does anyone else think Danny has the capacity to cheat? Because the boy tore himself into pieces realizing he had a bit of feels for Amber while dating Amazi-Girl, who, much to the surprise of many, is the same person.
Like if Sal walked in on a Harem Anime Cliche Scene would she get upset or would she go “pft right.”
SilverLining
I think Sal’s fear of trusting would take over before she realized just how ridiculous the idea of Danny cheating is. She’s more likely to assume “I was right, can’t trust these hoes” instead of “I’m sure there’s a reasonable explanation for this”.
Spencer
Yeah, probably.
It’d still be funny if Sal’s crippling fears of opening up to someone failing to take hold when confronted with the possibility of Danny being unfaithful.
Like this big misunderstanding happens, Sal tells Amber and she just starts laughing before “oh you were serious. Have you met him? He thought he was cheating on me with me.“
Thag Simmons
Pretty sure this is more about Joe than Danny
Sirksome
Meh, I think Joe would be better off not in a Liz situation.
Sirksome
Also I am admittedly making a lot of assumptions based on previous knowledge but Liz is looking like kind of a scumbag right now. Cause the only reason she could be here is to try and bang Joe who she believes is in a relationship (albeit casual) with Joyce. Not a good look.
Rocket Relm
I admit that I completely forgot that was foreshadowed, but now that you bring it up that is definitely the established plotline, given we’re establishing Liz as a bad person.
Though also given the track record of Willis’ writing, I fully expect us to see some good facets of her eventually. Like with Ruth and Radiah, who when we first met them weren’t shown with any redeeming qualities, but we eventually wrapped around to get a full scope. Which doesn’t justify shitty behavior, of course.
jflb96
Raidah has redeeming qualities?
Jon
Seconded. When has Raidah ever demonstrated any redeeming qualities?
Bryy
Yeah. Raidah has outright stated that she is controlling Jacob’s life, and she is also in the New Bad Group.
DrunkenNordmann
You know how sometimes when we’re getting introduced to characters, they seem like arseholes, but when we get to know them more, that impression fades?
Raidah is not that.
Spencer
We should probably save that call for when we, like, get to know her more.
(Like in the upcoming chapter called Trial and Sarah)
zee
Raidah less has redeeming qualities, more you feel a little bad that someone was outright conspiring to steal her boyfriend/make him cheat. Or the commentariat guilt tripped you for hating a brown woman despite the fact that she’s insanely elitist and classic, and has been shown in a purely negative light
Spencer
I think it’s normal to hate her now, because we don’t really know anything about her other than in relation to Sarah, a sympathetic protagonist who has a beef with her.
Like Ruth at the start, or how Daisy’s personality for 11 years was Lesbian until she went out with Ruth and got some character depth.
zee
I don’t doubt that she’ll get some redeeming traits in the future. And we also know her in relation to other sympathetic protagonists (condescending to Dina bc she’s ND, looking down on Joyce for being slightly younger and not aiming to be a millionaire. Y’know instead of looking down on her for trying to seduce her boyfriend which would be very valid and reasonable)
Spencer
She did look down on Dina for her socialization problems (in that Raidah was judging her on those since she obviously doesn’t know that Dina is neurodivergent as a fact), much like Amber does, and the rest of the cast that one time at Joyce’s dorm party before Dina told them all to fuck off.
So here’s how I see it as someone with ASD and ADHD; it is extremely easy for people to be compassionate, but through the lens of outright condescension. They want to help us because we’re helpless idiot children who need the world patiently explained to us, and displaying any kind of resentment for this treatment is baffling to them because omg, I’m just trying to be nice.
Much like Becky’s complete misunderstanding of Dina’s sexual appetite, the misunderstanding of neurodivergent people is a blaring white noise to our lives, and it’s a blaring white noise because otherwise normal and understanding people indulge in it without really understanding, the way one would used to say “I’m not gay… not that there’s anything wrong with that!” It’s something that needs to change, but it’s not where it should be now, and so stories about living with neurodivergence can depict that lived reality even as it also shows ways to be healthy and respectful, like how Becky is super respectful and admiring of Dina and treats everything she says at face value with dignity, or how Joe is comfortable talking about sex with her because he knows Sex Things and understands it’s a topic Dina doesn’t feel the need to dance around.
As for the Joyce thing, well, I do think that was indicative of Raidah as a social climber, I think that’s at least a fairly clearly textual element to her character for all the ones she’s got given her new posse of weird jerks patting themselves on the back for growing up (and Carl who has done nothing wrong), but I don’t think her talking down to Joyce was entirely based on Joyce’s career choice, so much as she needed to find a way to diminish someone her friends told her was sniffing around her boyfriend and she should worry, and so settled on why her career choice was dumb.
I’m being open to other interpretations of Raidah’s character if only because we haven’t really seen her enough for me to make a hard read, but I think we’ve seen enough of her that room for interpretation exists, like how Daisy had no personality until she suddenly did with Ruth.
Rocket Relm
Let’s also remember that Raidah criticized her friend for using a slur against Dina in that same scene, which implies her ‘condescension’ wasn’t some false show to mock, but rooted in an actual feeling she had. Her reaction against Sarah feels to me like an overactive defensive mechanism. For all her behavior is crappy, she mostly tries to maintain distance (spare the beginning when the situation was fresh and she was being an asshole). And let’s not forget that Sarah’s engaged in crappy behavior back (violent assault, a long term plan to break her up with her boyfriend), she’s just more sympathetic due to being the PoV.
Really, if we knew as little about Sarah as we knew about Raidah, and we knew as much about Raidah as we do Sarah, I could honestly see a lot of people being on her side. Especially if it turns out the friend who got sent home got sent to a place that Isn’t Safe like Ruth would have been if she’d been sent packing.
Spencer
Yeah that’s how I’m rolling with it.
There’s too much room for ambiguity and interpretation with Raidah for me to just go ” yep, evil”, especially when the last two strips had Sarah at her worst
thejeff
@Rocket Relm: The situation wasn’t that fresh in the beginning, when she harassed Sarah out of the blue a couple of times. Fresh to us, but the entire summer and a good part of the previous year had passed for them. It’s at least implied that those interactions were the resumption of a long campaign of harassment, which had helped to isolate Sarah for the past year. Raidah only started maintaining difference after that violent assault, for better or worse.
Without the context of a year of social bullying, Sarah punching her seems really bad. Even with it, the plan to take Jacob from her was bad – and was portrayed as such throughout, leading to Sarah dropping it and it blowing up in Joyce’s face.
Spencer
I don’t think that’s implied at all, but it’s certainly a reasonable conclusion to draw. The last thing Raidah says to Sarah in the flashback is to stay away from her, so I think that’s an implication that Raidah only ever lashes out at her when they crossed paths, which, still wrong.
And, y’know, whatever “not according to Dana, last I checked” means.
I kinda read that initial (of two) instances where Raidah provokes her as a way of setting up the late reveal of why Sarah ratted her roommate out for using illegal drugs, since it initially comes off as Sarah being a narc.
thejeff
That was an arguable point before the whole Jacob/Joyce/Raidah thing. During that though we learned that she was classist, manipulative and scheming and we learned absolutely nothing redeeming about her.
Maybe she does have hidden depths, but at this point Willis has gone out of his way to avoid showing them to us.
She was shown not just in relation to Sarah, but also Jacob and Joyce, in a sequence in which the narrative clearly put Joyce in the wrong and yet we still didn’t get anything positive about her.
Spencer
I don’t think any of that was made absolutely clear, but we have different reads on her on account of there not being much there, if only for the time being.
Like I sure as hell don’t read that little “Jacob needs me” thing as “I need to control Jacob” without room for interpretation, given how torn up she was after he broke up with her, it kind of struck me more as “Jacob needs me because I have worth to him.”
But, again, we’re talking about a character who only shows up in an antagonistic capacity to someone we like more than her.
Dana
The only reason that comes to mind to me is she actually cares about Joyce and/or the consequences of her running off when voices got raised and Joe is a low risk source
Sirksome
What could Joe possibly offer in this situation at all? He wasn’t involved. Not saying she couldn’t be seeking advice from Joe but the question is why? If Liz cared about Joyce she’d go apologize to her, she knows where her dorm is.
Fuzzy
Going to Joyce’s room means seeing Sarah, and she might not want to be vulnerable in front of Sarah by doing something like apologizing. I don’t personally think it’s why she’s here, but going to Joyce’s supposed best friend because she cares isn’t out of the realm of possibility.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Moar Man-Pills(TM)
Needfuldoer
Joe was there when the drama bomb went off, she can at least get background information from him. We can’t assume she knows who Becky is and why this conflict is so important.
Lexi
I mean, logically there are many reasons she could be there, considering she spent an entire afternoon there playing Mario Kart.
Maybe she forgot her wallet.
Maybe she feels guilty about abusing Joe’s hospitality and is here to say thank you.
Maybe she missed her bus and wants to look up a schedule, but feels awkward going back to Sarah/Joyce seeing how poorly they left off.
Maybe she wants to apologize to Sarah/Joyce and doesn’t know how to because she doesn’t know what the hell happened, and Joe seemed to actually know.
Maybe she’s here to buy weed off Joe.
Personally, I like the idea that she’s trying to buy an edible off Joe. Or decided her Men’s Vitamin was laced with something and is here to punch him over it.
Rocket Relm
While I’d be tremendously and pleasantly surprised if she was actually back for some benign or positive reason, I’m pretty sure Liz’s role in this story is to serve as the Bad Gal, something to point to and say “don’t have the thought that christianity is dumb, you don’t want to become her, do you?” She’ll be allowed to have nuance in later elements of the story I’m sure, but until Joyce gets his with the karma anvil and learns her lesson (which Liz will probably be part of), I don’t think Liz will be presented with redeeming qualities.
I’d be delighted to be wrong about the narrative here, though.
Spencer
I mean, she’s not really bad on any capacity. At worst she thinks Christianity is dumb, which could be born from whatever is compelling her to continue lying to her folks, or maybe she’s 18 and sorts edgy about the most powerful religious institution in the continent she lives on
Take it from someone who’s been where you’re at: you gotta let characters exist instead of thinking about their purpose.
Rose by Any Other Name
I mean, Joyce indicated it was casual, not committed. And Joyce’s comments could be read as a recommendation of Joe’s skill. Liz might believe that Joyce would be fully okay with her banging Joe as well.
Not that I think Liz needs benefit of the doubt after her previous actions – just that, in this case, I don’t really see any issue based on the information Liz was given.
Sirksome
Admittedly not experience with modern interpersonal sexual relationships between friends but that feels like something you at least run by both people in the relationship first instead of visiting one on the side after dark. But I am no longer hip so maybe it’s cool and I’m just a square as proven by me using vocabulary like “hip” and “square”.
milu
i’d say it’s a gray area? on the face of it, Joyce did say they were casual. in Liz’s fantasy, which Joyce did nothing to dissuade, Joe’s the “den of sin” guy. he’s just getting it on with half the campus anyway.
but yeah i would absolutely advise caution and communication etc, esp when you’re being posturing 18 year olds who think they’ve got the hang of this free love thing, and then find out that they actually have Strong Feelings about who who they bang, bangs (story as old as… well, the 60’s at least)
source: i may have fucked around and found out! quite literally.
Spencer
Joe and Joyce are friends with reward programs, or, there’s no stated commitment. It’s not something where anyone involved would be expected to run it by anyone else.
milu
eh, it’s the difference between a contractual obligation and social etiquette. it’s not that it’s your fault if it blows up, but had you erred on the side of caution you might have avoided a blowup in the first place.
if it’s me, i’m absolutely checking in with the pal who said they were happy-go-lucky, no-strings-attached fuckbuddies. if it is that simple and straightforward, good, glad i got it confirmed, on to the fun part. if it isn’t, well that’s a bullet dodged y’know?
Needfuldoer
We know Joe’s got it bad for Joyce. Even if Liz is genuinely here for a roll in the hay, this could be the story setting him up to decide for himself if he really wants more casual hookups, or…
[Dramatic *dun DUN DUUNN* sfx]
a monogamous relationship with Joyce.
Spencer
Oh, that’ll be for a while.
Mostly because I don’t think Joe is capable of saying out loud that he likes her, because the minute he does he’s made it Feelings, and all Joe can do with Feelings is ruin them, especially Joyce’s; he’s already done wrong there.
Geneseepaws
Mommy? If that man is so important, how come he’s not wearing any clothes?
Roborat
Now you have me wondering where that “roll in the hay” phrase came from. Seems to me that it would be scratchy, stabby and painful, and certainly not fun.
Sam
Expected? No. But should you anyway to absolutely make sure there is no blow up? Yes. Because if you’re just looking for a fun casual thing, you don’t want to accidentally knock a bee’s nest onto your own head because your friend or the other person postured in front of the other but things are actually messier than stated.
RassilonTDavros
…well, this was unexpected.
C.T. Phipps
Liz is right. The hat must go.
Rabisch
NOOOOOO! That hat is Sal’s gift for Danny and it’s precious and beautiful!
Thag Simmons
It’ll come back. The Hat always comes back
Needfuldoer
The very next day.
davidbreslin101
The hat came back, we thought it was a goner.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Liz is dead wrong. On that note, I think we lost something as a civilization, when it stopped being cool to kill people for insulting you in your own home.
Keulen
Danny is right, the hat is great.
thejeff
Hat is a good egg.
woobie
Did Liz come back for Joe?
King Daniel
Joe who?
Yumi
Joe mama
King Daniel
She’s at the wrong address then
Hazel
GOTTEM!
Beau Kirin Maysey
Who the HELL is Mark Zuckerburg???
eh, whatever
Mark Zuckerberg’s less evil cousin?
newlland(Henryvolt)
I will be surely disappointed if that is the case even if I can’t think of another reason why she’d come back.
Roborat
Maybe she wants to know where to get some of those edibles.
The Wellerman
*plays “I LIKE YOUR HAT” by Dan Paladin on Hacked Muzak*
https://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/10836
milu
cool song!
BBCC