174

Diner
Posted on December 16, 2015 by David M Willis

174 thoughts on “Diner”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    too real

    1. inqntrol

      …What in the name of Ferdinand?

    2. badmartialarts

      When keepin’ it real….goes wrong.

      1. EvilMidnightLurker

        He kept it real, but they kept it realer!

    3. Explosions

      Ahhh it’s good to see a real Joyce only needed a mental breakdown for it to happen…… wait

  2. DarkoNeko

    That was kinda weird.

    1. DarkoNeko

      I mean, Joyce actually turned down a motorcycle ride ! WTF.

      1. inqntrol

        That is really troubling.

      2. JustCheetoDust

        Well, there was bad timing.

      3. Longdistancetraveler

        Because being on the back of motorcycles is hella scary.

        Do yourself a favour and get your own, much more predictable. You choose the speed, not the drunken nutter in front of you (my last experience :L).

    2. Znayx

      I think that Joyce would have accepted if not for meeting with Dorothy. Sal is right, when she’s not freaking out and angry, she does seem more real. I see Joyce maybe stabilizing like this gradually, less angry and more… content. Not necessarily happy, but content. And you know, she is autobiographical, so I expect (even though I have not met him personally) that Willis is more or less stable emotionally, and feels happy and safe (for lack of a better term, hope I don’t have to explain ’cause I’m not sure myself what I’m saying). So Joyce will go through a few more changes as she adjusts, though I’m not sure what that will do to the relationships she formed.

      1. Clif

        I think you misunderstand Sal’s view of real. But what do I know?

        1. Needfuldoer

          I read it as Sal thinking Joyce is more relatable (maybe even more respectable) now that she’s not a walking, talking bible.

        2. DarkoNeko

          There was also the heavy fangirling issue ; which probably annoyed Sal a lot.

        3. Cerberus

          This. To Sal, Joyce has frequently been the one girl-crushing over her motorcycle and aesthetic and seemed to be desperate for the validation of the counter-culture and Sal has disliked being treated like an affectation or an aesthetic.

          She hasn’t hated Joyce’s repressed conservativeness: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/fudge/

          But has wanted her to own an authentic self rather than just projecting a hope (either to rebel in a safe pre-packaged purely aesthetic way or to fit the impossible standards that her religion demands of her).

          And so to Sal, she feels she’s seen that. Not because Joyce uses swears and is not wearing a sweater vest and is all scowly, but because she saw Joyce filled with determination to help her friend no matter what, pushing back all her fears of acting proper or not getting hurt, and just doing what she thought was right.

          Given what we’ve seen of Sal and her loyalty/codependence to Marcie, I think it is that aspect that Sal most respects and why she thinks Joyce is being real. Because she’s no longer scared of herself, authority, or the weight of her beliefs and is starting to engage with them critically. And that’s realness to Sal.

        4. Znayx

          I took it to mean that Joyce seemed more… Three-dimensional? I think I’m using that term correctly. Yes, I understand that being more relatable could be what Sal’s talking about, but Joyce is not trapped in her little ideal world fantasy anymore, and she’s acting on that new approach. Sal likes that, and sees her as more of a person. Anyway, just as you and others are partly speculating, so am I. I believe I am quite close to the point, though.

        5. Znayx

          Check my response to Needfuldoer who responded to you, I explain a little more why I say this.

      2. JustCheetoDust

        And you know, she is autobiographical…

        I stopped reading after this to consider the idea of Joyce becoming an internet pornlord.

        1. DarkVeghetta

          That thought has been discussed/thought about many a time here. Enjoy!

        2. DarkoNeko

          Oh my.

        3. John

          She is the Whiteboard Dingdong Bandit…

        4. Captain Button

          Now I am seeing a museum exhibit about “The Erotic Art of Joyce Brown: A Retrospective”. Specifically the “Early Years” section.

        5. Deanatay

          But, no surviving copies of her earliest works exist! They were all erased.

          Unless, Carla took pics!

        6. Captain Button

          There is the one on Mary’s face, mistakenly attributed to JB, true creator unknown.

        7. JustCheetoDust

          And I’m imagining Dorothy, Walky and Becky reenacting a scene from Ferris Bueller’s Day Off in this exhibit you speak of.

      3. SorataYuy

        “Joyce is autobiographical”
        Incorrect. You are thinking of OriginalVerse!Joyce, which is very much not this Joyce. And never shall the two meet, or should they be confused for each other. 😉

        1. David M Willis

          see that “read before posting” link at the top of the page?

          i would go click that

          and read #8

        2. Znayx

          I haven’t read any Walkyverse comics… I’ve been staying here, and just familiarizing myself with the other comics through links from people in the comments here, and pressing the random button a few dozen times in “Shortpacked!”. <–using quotes there because it's at the end of the sentence but it looks like I'm exclaiming 😛

          Anyway, I do hope to read through the other comics from the complete start to the end, eventually. And yes, there's also what Willis said, which is the truly important thing here, regardless of whether I've read the other universe comics.

        3. Znayx

          I might be speaking incorrectly, if in fact the whole thing is the Walkyverse, including the Dumbiverse. Anyway, I do mean the original universe, same as you said.

        4. David M Willis

          The Walkyverse is only the old continuity stuff, the Dumbiverse is separate from that.

        5. Spencer

          Plot twist: This all takes place in the universe Head Alien II is from.

        6. David M Willis

          People suggest that a lot, but probably only because they don’t remember the particulars of that universe very well.

        7. Spencer

          One would think the problems would start with “Walky never knew Sal and met Dorothy in high school” and “Head Alien is actually real” then work up from there!

        8. Adam Black

          Which of Walkyverse -Joyce did you think was autobiographical?
          Gets kidnapped by aliens?
          Where she throws herself at Danny for a year and half of college?
          Traumatized by watching porn?
          wipes her memory? Gets superpowers?
          works as a secret agent?

        9. random832

          I assumed that the secret agent thing, and that Steve is the same history from Jeph Jacques’ perspective, and that that’s ultimately how they ended up with their rivalry and butts disease.

  3. Doctor_Who

    Fictional characters don’t get motorcycle rides. You must be at least 40% real to get one.

    1. Airyu

      I really thought Sal was quoting Frozen for a second ans got worried.
      “For the first time in forever”

      1. inqntrol

        Then what, she starts singing “Let it go”? Actually, it would be interesting(and funny) to hear Sal sing that.

        1. Jess

          In her accent? Hell yeah. I’d pay money for it.

        2. Screwball

          They’re in University, right? I’d probably more likely end up as this version…

        3. Gordon

          They’re freshmen.

          It’s way too early for that to have set in yet.

        4. Skilltagz

          It has to get to at least the first round of midterms first.

      2. Jezi

        That’s a plot point of Frozen, though, right? The doe-eyed hyper-sheltered innocent goes out into the great big world to discover romance and joy and chocolate, only to be bongoslapped with reality?

        …the first boy that sweeps her off her feet turns out to be a douchebag…her sister gets unfairly ostracized for who she is…waaaaaaiiit a minute…

        1. zoelogical

          they even have the hair thing going on. 🙂

  4. Mada

    Joyce needs hugs now 🙁

  5. Spencer

    Not pictured: Mary chasing Carla off the roof and falling when she notices.

    1. Lord Stoneheart

      I’m assuming that storyline isn’t over until Mary gets a pie to the face. (Her ending up in the Amazon seems unlikely in this universe)

      1. Makkabee

        Well, there is missionary work… a chance to make whole new civilizations feel bad about themselves….

      2. inqntrol

        And then she gets triple bird flipped..wait..oops, wrong comic. Well, I guess a double bird flip works too.

      3. Plasma Mongoose

        Are we talking about pie or “pie”?

        1. JustCheetoDust

          Yes.

      4. Viktoria

        Anything is possible with ingenuity, a crate, and a benjamin slipped to a customs agent.

      5. Bladeglory

        Alternative to an Amazon trip: Mary (and Roz I suppose) returns to her room one night to discover it full of tropical potted plants. Nobody knows where she got them or how she snuck them all into the room, but that’s that.

        1. John

          Mary flips her shit. Roz uses them to disguise the room for her next video so as not to get in trouble with Big Boss again.

        2. Deanatay

          …Or uses them for role-playing!

          “I am Roz-zan, Queen of The Jungle! And you, are my very naughty monkey…”

        3. Adam Black

          LOL
          I smell a slipshine

        4. Rutee

          ….
          Starring:
          Venom “Punished” Snake
          Robin DeSanto
          Leslie “Les” Bean

          Enemy Combatants:
          The IU Student Body

          Guest Starring:
          Rosalyn “Roz” DeSanto
          Joe Rosenthal

    2. Rutee

      Gravity is a harsh mistress. I still remember the Tiny Toons learning about it, then later having to put their knowledge to the test and cross a huge chasm by pointing their heads up.

      1. iain

        Babs finally learned to take things more seriously!

  6. JessWitt

    Kick-butt Girl Scouts!

  7. Yotomoe

    Well she’s not. She’s fictional. We all are. We’re actually drawings. Just a series of lines and color splashed together to create the illusion of life having our lives and motion segmented through panels as to make use the medium of sequential art to give the implication of movement.

    1. Opus the Poet

      And my writer can’t decide if this is supposed to be porn or a tragedy.

      1. MeghanTheDreamCrusher

        It’s a pornotragic webcomic.

        1. Opus the Poet

          Fourteen years ago I was dead, now I’m up to my expectations in voluptuous women. It’s something, that’s for sure.

      2. Yotomoe

        What sort of monster would give me all of these issues and relationship issues, and then give me an dominant lesbian girlfriend and a monstrous rack. I’m getting very mixed signals from the universe.

        1. Spencer

          Ruth is bi.

    2. newllend(henryvolt)

      How the hell else would you explain the fact I can still talk and hold this cigarette in my mouth with opening it? What did you just think me and everyone else who seems to be able to do it were just masters of ventriloquism?

    3. Tenn

      Hey! I’m claymation!

      “Drawings”. Pfft.

  8. Mr. Mendo

    Right now, I’m picturing Sal as the out of place bad ass character in a twee kid’s show who sees people being corrupted by the black thorns or whatever and says, “Now, this is more like it!” 🙂

    1. DarkVeghetta

      Relateable.

  9. Plasma Mongoose

    She’s a real OG now.

    1. inqntrol

      All she needs now is a gang.

      1. That One Guy

        “The Whiteboard Dingdongs”

  10. Alice Macher

    It’s hard to tell, given that Sal wears an expression like that more often than not, but I wonder whether she’s a bit miffed over Joyce declining her invitation. I could see her thinking, “Huh. All that time she tagged along after me with that stupid triangle grin an’ Ah couldn’t shake her off. An’ now that she’s dropped the goody-two shoes shit an’ Ah actually WANT to hang with her, she ain’t interested.”

    1. Doctor_Who

      Sal discovers reverse psychology.

    2. GoSpeedRumpist

      Considering how few people Sal actually wants to hang around, I expect she’s a little disappointed.

    3. Someone

      I do hope that Joyce eventually outdoes Sal, simply because I want that to be a universal constant

      “You’ve never changed Sal, I have!”

    4. DarkoNeko

      Sal wants more friends, too.

      1. John

        Sal just wants a friend. Her previous one is busy trying to get into Malaya’s pants.

        1. DarkoNeko

          She can’t forget that feeling of Joyce hugging her from behind, while on the bike. Can’t get it out of her head~

        2. Rutee

          http://www.containersfirst.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/20ft-GP-A-Grade-Buy-a-Shipping-Container-size.jpg

    5. Historyman68

      But one of Joyce’s more annoying, non-bible-quoting qualities was her obsession with trying to be cool & desperation to hang out with Sal(‘s motorcycle). I’d imagine Sal may feel a little snubbed, but I think she also appreciates that her “realness” involves a little more self-respect and a little less desperation.

  11. Porto

    That hurt to read…

    1. JustCheetoDust

      Do you get used to it with subsequent readings?

      1. DarkoNeko

        IT’s like getting used to earthquakes.

  12. caesaria82

    We interrupt the whacky hijinks of glue and skates to bring you deep conversations, character growth and baffling reactions by Billie.

    1. RAZ

      Thank God. I thought willis have sideline the drama in favor of slapstick comedy. ( but the last few strip is a nice change of pace)

      1. Rutee

        …did you honestly think that over a short interlude or is that cute humor and I failed to pick it up?

        1. Deimir

          A moment of blind, desperate optimism, most likely.

    2. Cerberus

      I wonder if part of the reaction is that Billie is terrified of the uncertainty inherent in growing up and maturing. I mean, she’s in the midst of doing it, but she views it as an inherently self-destructive act and she’s still in the midst of feeling ashamed for her former confidence and scared to reach out and try to help others.

      So that reminder that others close to her are going through big scary things and changing in major ways is worrying to her and makes her focus on her self-imposed inaction.

      1. Emma

        She’s very much stuck in the past. She’s only just shook the whole ‘I’m a high school cheerleader go dragons’ thing. Growing up for her means leaving the happiest times she knew behind. Though it might start getting easier since she’s making new sort of kind of positive memories now.

        I think she wants to help, but feels like she can’t since she’s failing with Ruth. (not her fault! she just isn’t equipped with the right tools to help) She wants to help out Joyce, wants to see that other people are helping.

        Also I think that people ‘changing roles’ worries her since she’s still a bit stuck in her past. Sal was the bad girl who hates everyone, Walky was the dweeb who couldn’t get a date to save his life. But now Sal is showing she cares, and Walky has an amazing girlfriend and Billie is still Billie.

  13. Stormtrooper0914

    Think she wouldent reject

  14. newllend(henryvolt)

    I see no difference really, maybe that’s because even though she trying to hide all her turmoil behind a smile it wasn’t hard to see through it.

  15. Just Me

    I couldn’t see Joyce ditching Dorothy to go with Sal. If Sal had asked first, before Joyce made other arrangements, then maybe Joyce might have accepted.

  16. Just Me

    But it was nice of Sal to invite her.

    1. newllend(henryvolt)

      yes it good to see her reaching out to people

      1. neeks

        She isn’t reaching out, Joyce is just more real now. We’ve been over this.

        (No but really it’s good to see Sal initiating–or trying to–hangouts with people who aren’t Marcie, or I guess people who can acquire alcohol for her.)

  17. Cerberus

    Hmm that “real” part makes me wonder something. Sal went to a catholic boarding school for awhile, with probably a bunch of Mary types, making a big deal of showing how pious and proper they were and sneering at the black girl with the troubled past.

    So to Sal, being real might just mean Joyce not being so wrapped up in this desperate need to match this toxic idea of what she thinks her God wants and being more willing to cope at her own pace with her frustrations and develop her morality.

    Meaning it might not be the 90s grimdark definition of “realness”, it might just be “hey, now we’re seeing who Joyce can be rather than just a mirror of how she was raised to be”.

    1. ninja_jesus

      This is my interpretation as well. Joyce is facing reality rather than hiding behind blind faith and optimism in the face of conflicting ideas.

    2. Spencer

      I’m really hoping Sal is just saying “Joyce isn’t trying so hard anymore”, especially with Sal herself, but I wonder if she is actually thinking “Joyce is angry and hurt, and that’s real. The Hyper Christian Sweater Vest machine is gone and now we have Real Joyce, who has now realized that things suck.”

      It might be more positive, though. Like, maybe she is just acknowledge that Joyce isn’t, as you said, wrapped up in being what she thinks God wants anymore.

      1. Adam Black

        I think the prior motorcycle ride and Joyce punchingout Toedad, has a lot to do with it. Joyce doesnt have to pretend to be cool to sal. She has leveled up.

    3. Willoughby Chase

      I think Joyce’s own character is emerging, rather than trying to be what she thinks someone else wants her to be.

      I can dig this. I tried for years to be someone else’s image, until it broke me.

      Emergence is hard, but I think everyone contains lightness and shade. We haven’t seen the lightness emerge from this version of Joyce.

      1. Historyman68

        If it’s not too personal, who did you try to be? I’ve been there too.

      2. Cerberus

        That makes sense and it would fit also why Sal gives this props. After all, we’ve seen Sal try (and fail) to fit an image that her parents have for her and the internal emotional damage that has caused her. So, seeing Joyce move away from that as well probably helps her feel less alone in that.

    4. hof1991

      Catholic boarding schools are full of troubled kids, much like other schools, except maybe more so and with more money. But at a boarding school, more money doesn’t get you a nicer room or clothes or better food.

  18. That One Guy

    This is creepier than Undertale. Joyce not accepting a motorcycle ride.

    *shudder*

    1. tim gueguen

      Perhaps Joyce has decided motorcycles aren’t all that cool after all, having ridden one.

      1. Svankensen

        Or perhaps she decided that a normal ride cant compare to a car chase action scene. So shes waiting for the next kidnapping.

    2. Captain Button

      I thought we weren’t getting the Anti-Joyce in this universe.

    3. Spencer

      I just redid a Neutral run of Undertale and fought the final boss.

      Very little is creepier than that.

      1. That One Guy

        Oh. Oh yeah. You remembered me of that.

        Where do you live? I need to grab a couple of knives too… >:(

        1. Spencer

          I DON’T NEED FRIENDS!!!

          I’VE GOT KNIVES!!!

          …

          Out of knives.

      2. Liliet

        Pacifist run is creepier than that.

        Genocide run is creepier than that.

        Undertale is just. Like that.

        1. Spencer

          The Pacifist and Genocide exclusive content can really get under the skin, but the Neutral final boss is just, well, that. It’s pure insanity.

          It’s like splicing in snippets of The Thing into Peanuts.

      3. Kamino Neko

        Very little is a bigger asshole move than that, either. >_>

        1. Spencer

          Oh yes. It’s the Giygas battle of the new millennium.

  19. Rukduk

    Hmmm. I was hoping for the next part of Mary v. Carla, but this is good too.

    1. Bagge

      I just assume they will keep escalating things until next time we see them.

      1. Cerberus

        Ruth coming back from class: Why is there a howitzer in the hallway?

        1. Captain Button

          To keep the tigers away, duh!

  20. Rutee

    What I’m wondering is what Billy’s getting out of this. That happiness is bad?

    1. Spencer

      I think Billie might actually be worried that this is “real” Joyce, and that smiley, bubbly, dorky Joyce is gone.

      I’m like 90% sure that Billie is genuinely concerned about Joyce’s well being beyond Mike’s suggestion that it’s just easier, but she’s worried that if she intervenes, then she’ll make things worse.

      1. Rutee

        If she were in a better place, I’d be less concerned about her learning the second lesson. Unfortunately, she ain’t. Hopefully it’s the healthier version though.

        1. Spencer

          Well, we’ve seen so far that Billie feels obligated to jump in and help people she cares about. She tried setting up Walky with Dorothy and then helped him understand what Sal was saying about their parents’ favouritism. She’s genuinely dedicated to Ruth and she tends to be the cool friend who explains all the adult stuff to Joyce that she never got any idea about.

          I’m thinking her thought process is something like “I can help her with explaining booty calls and fuzzy boots, but this is serious and I’m going to make things worse.” We’ve even seen her start feeling unable to give Walky dating advice when he asked her, when it used to be that was her forte. So right now she wants to jump in and help Joyce, but then the negative thoughts kick in and Billie convinces herself that she can’t help at all.

        2. Lord Stoneheart

          I think Billie is still in the mindset of “I’m poison and I ruin everything I touch.” Ever since her conversation with Alice she’s tried to stay away from giving advice to Walky and Joyce. (When Walky went to her for advice she stopped herself and said she had no right to boss him around anymore).

        3. Spencer

          Yep. Plus, she might even be thinking that, if this is “real” Joyce, then she’s trying to bring back dorky fun Joyce for her own comfort.

        4. Rutee

          That’s why I’m worried, yeah. I’m hoping the message she takes from this isn’t “I shouldn’t try to help people, because I will try to make them happy, and that is Bad and Wrong and Not Real.”

          I don’t think Sal MEANT that, but that’s not really relevant to how Billie interprets it, which we may or may not see in future strips.

        5. Charles Phipps

          I think Billie is a very helpful and good person who is naturally concerned about her friend. She’s come a long way since the Cheerleader obsession she had earlier. However, unfortunately, this is a complex and difficult issue o tackle. Sal is also a TERRIBLE judge of what “real” is since she basically hides behind adolescent rebellion to deal with reality.

        6. Willoughby Chase

          Billie is also hiding her genuine affection for Ruth.

          She’s acting out a role that isn’t really her.

    2. Captain Button

      Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

      1. Kryss LaBryn

        But it’s not fair!

      2. Rutee

        Sure, but if you’re a masochist…

      3. Roborat

        Ironically, I found that movie on tv last night, and it was right at that scene.

  21. Dr. T

    I guess I’m the only weirdo wondering what diner she’s talking about. Most of the really good places are near campus.

  22. Viktoria

    I find it interesting that this is what made Joyce “Real”. Not her going up against Mary or her parents, not her figuring out that her entire faith has fundamental flaws, no, what makes Joyce real is being broken and having her spirit utterly crushed. “Real” is pessimistic is a very pessimistic outlook on life.

    1. brumagem

      I think when Sal says “real” she really means “genuine”. I can see how someone like Sal might look at Before-Joyce and think of how much of a carbon copy she is, then look at After-Joyce and see the doubt in her eyes that every sane person has.

    2. DarkoNeko

      Sal really digged when Joyce ordered her around.

      …

      ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

      1. Rutee

        I approve of your life choices

    3. Kraken

      Sal wasn’t there for any of that stuff. She was there for that time when Joyce was recovering from the date rape trauma, and that didn’t impress her. I think she’s probably reacting to her dealing with stuff in what she considers to be a tough manner. Y’know, with swears and stuff.

  23. Professor Fate

    I can understand Joyce refusing a cycle ride. Her last one was a tad traumatic. It is interesting that Sal would invite her out to lunch, though. She saw another side of Joyce and it evidently made a favorable impression.

  24. newllend(henryvolt)

    Best thing about this is you can see even more of a parallel between Itwalky and Dumbing of age.

  25. takashid

    we have entered a new era of doa where Sal casually offers motorcycle rides to Joyce. Im going to need to sit down for a moment to process this shift in my worldview.

  26. Clif

    A penny for Billie’s thoughts.

    1. Sam

      “What do I have to do to get a ride?”

  27. Bagge

    Sal has her helping scowl today

  28. Dahveed

    the cutie is broken

  29. Charles Phipps

    I think Sal is not an especially wife, happy, or mature person. Carla made a strong effort to reach out and befriend Sal but Sal turned down Carla’s offer of friendship because, well, Sal doesn’t want to be friends with anyone but her single lone friend. I think Sal may actually think broken bitterness is better than being happy. Which would fit with “everyone is screwed up in the cast but Walkerton, Becky, and Dorothy.”

    1. Kryss LaBryn

      *wise?

      1. Charles Phipps

        MY GOD! THE TYPO MONSTER BEAN BANDIT HAS STRUCK AGAIN!

        1. cesium133

          Here I thought you were juft exprefsing your afpriation that the typography of the feventeeth century would return.

          (yes, yes, I know it’s not really an f.)

    2. Nightsbridge

      Maybe, but I also think she has a point. Joyce may need help right now, but she’s also in a process of discovering something about herself, and she’s becoming more in tune what exactly she cares about. She’s more raw, and more real in that way. Maybe Joyce isn’t HAPPY right now, but she’ll probably reach it, and when she does, she will be more JOYCE than she ever was before.

      1. Clif

        How Joyce is that?

  30. Bagge

    Sal is cool and all, but she is no perfect cinnamon roll.

    1. Willoughby Chase

      More salty caramel, something Joyce has yet to taste.

  31. BenRG

    I had to go away and think about what Sal was saying for a while but I think I’ve got it now.

    To Sal, Joyce’s original persona was palpably fake. She wasn’t seeing “Joyce” as much as she was seeing the role Joyce felt that she had to play. There were touches of the real woman inside but, in the end, Sal has had enough people playing a role in her life and I don’t think she really appreciates it. She values honesty and forthrightness.

    Now she’s seen Joyce’s real life priorities priorities exposed, the things about which she cares enough to punch through her morality to protect, she’s more a realised, three-dimensional personality to her. She’s become someone that she’s interested in coming to know.

    As for Billie, I find myself wondering if Sal’s words have made her worry if, in her attempt to help Ruth, she’s let herself become a role rather than live true to herself.

    1. zoelogical

      “i would rebel but it would make my parents angry” has changed, essentially.

  32. Captain Button

    Does Sal have a second helmet on her bike?

  33. smooti

    My thoughts here are actually “poor Sal”. She seems to be assuming that the Joyce up until this point was some sort of facade when really it was Joyce, just as much as this is also Joyce. She was naive before and is now expressing herself in different ways due to what’s happened, but that doesn’t make who she was before less “real”.

    What I’m saying is, Sal is living in a world where genuinely happy people must be faking it, and being depressed, upset and angry is someone’s “real” self. So poor Sal.

    1. Spencer

      Sal does have a bit of a pessimistic streak.

      I recall when Danny tutored her, and she seemed to expect that he was only doing it because he wanted to sleep with her.

      1. smooti

        That might be because of her OTHER experiences with a tutor, though.

        1. Sam

          and with guys, maybe.

        2. Spencer

          Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking. Her thing with Jason was a completely spontaneous action after hours of frustration and no progress, but with Danny, even something as pleasant-sounding as tutoring made Sal skeptical.

          I wonder how much of her need to earn her parents’ respect has bled over into other aspects of her life; that she expects anybody who interacts with her to want something. That she needs to earn affection from people.

    2. DarkoNeko

      For Sarah, people are only happy and optimistic until the world breaks them down. Not much better.

    3. Palamdrone

      I think Sal’s opinion isn’t that happiness is fake, just acting happy all the time because you’re ignoring the problems is fake happiness.

  34. YouKnowWho

    Is the implication that Billy was jealous that Joyce got invited out?

  35. Vangeln

    Goddamn real!

  36. Willoughby Chase

    The wind blows strong and cold
    Pushing the leaves away
    Exposing clay
    And large jagged tears of rock.

    Fingers slip between logjammed torrents
    Deified strata, magma ghosts
    Heart-beats and wet kisses.

    Shiver along knots of a live-wire spine
    Coal-dark eyes opened before ceremonies
    Of the real, silk rippled and bloodied
    By gentle laughter beneath a new light.

    Curl fingers and interlace shadows
    Of an obelisk pointing in all directions.
    Stride out over the petrified forest
    Footprints of old skin
    and worm-molds behind
    Fresh pain and new fires ahead.

  37. Edupoet81

    If by “real,” Sal means deeply sad and possibly losing interest in life, then yes, Joyce seems real.

    1. Rowen Morland

      Maybe Sal means, not bubble wrapped in her parents’ world? (That seems like a Saltiment.)

      1. Charles Phipps

        That seems a bit optimistic for Sal.

  38. Peduncle

    “Reach out” can mean different things. An offer of help is only one of them.

  39. Peduncle

    If by “go do what you do”, Joyce means only my own issues are of interest to me, then yeah. Joyce is real.

    I worry about Sal.

  40. nothri

    I think that says more about Sal than it does about Joyce. And it don’t say anything good, either.

  41. Eric

    Angry and depressed (and oh yes, you can be both at the same time) is not a good ‘real’.

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