i mean from what we’ve seen/heard has joe ever had a steady ‘girlfriend’ versus casual hookups, i guess it might be harder as a thing to offer to underage teens even if it’s someone in your friend group or a hot popular girl/guy at school offering but it does seem like it’d cause drama if it was openly known that multiple ppl liked the same person
(i mean , idk how many ppl got caught or would be bitter/resentful but when i was younger there was like a ‘one week’ etiquette before dating someone’s ex in a friend group but this was before smartphones so other than being neighbors/in after school clubs/teams where they’d have chances to spend time and not be seen idk how many ppl risked sneaking around)
I assume the intent is that she tried to warn the girls Joe asked out that he was only interested in the casual hookup, not in a girlfriend. Pretty sure Dorothy doesn’t think he’s really interested in a steady girlfriend now, nor has Joyce given her any reason to think she knows better.
It’s alarmingly easy to forget that people sometimes have different information than you do, and from there, it’s a short hop to “they don’t actually believe what they’re saying, no sensible person does, therefore they’re up to something.”
Joyce was raised by a family that likely drew this conclusion about others a LOT, and hasn’t dropped the habit.
Archieve
Joyce has also been raised to always obey authority figures (what Dorothy has set herself up as here) so part of her anger is also trying to reassert her stance with Joe because she’s not used to simply going ‘ you and I may not agree but I have a right to make my own choices’
James
Yeah, this is really a perfect storm of differing information and experiences and unfortunate neuroses clashing in terrible ways.
Joyce is an adult who’s capable of making her own decisions, and she’s attracted to Joe on multiple levels, but she’s definitely in denial about how much her sexual repression is affecting things and her need to be independent is almost certainly going to blind her a bit to taking information or advice from someone with much more knowledge of Joe’s past behavior.
Dorothy, meanwhile, would honestly be right to be kind of concerned that Noted Horndog Chauvinist Joe is apparently showing interest in someone who is both highly inexperienced in dating and has been sexually assaulted before, but is also absolutely going to overstep bounds due to her established need to be right and take on protector/leader roles, and is almost certainly influenced by Joyce’s recent diagnosis.
Narratively it’s a great setup in which both characters are right and wrong about different things at the same time, ie, exactly what you want in a work of fiction about personal relationships and painful growth.
In the comments section, it’s the perfect recipe for a trash fire.
Needfuldoer
Completely agreed.
This plays into their dynamic perfectly, just like the optometrist visit. Dorothy has concerns, but they manifest as authority (“I booked an eye appointment for you”, “do not get with Joe”) instead of peer interaction (“you should get your eyes checked”, “you know what you’re getting into, right?”) That just makes Joyce dig her heels in.
thejeff
She is coming off strong, but not quite that strong. I mean, she does say “don’t get with Joe” last strip, but right after “Please, I am asking you”.
Needfuldoer
That doesn’t sound like asking to me.
thejeff
She literally says “I am asking you”. Even says “please”.
Bryy
It came off as “LISTEN TO ME” instead of “please i am asking you to listen to me”.
Joy
The Jeff is right in my opinion.
Uly
Despite what you were told as a child, the word “please” does not make a phrase a request. Lots of people say “please” in lots of contexts where, in fact, they’re not making anything like a request at all. They’re just being polite.
thejeff
It’s possible, but given what we see, I think it comes down to how we already see the character in this scene.
We can’t hear her tone, which would probably make it clear.
“Please” doesn’t necessarily make a request. Nor, I guess, does the “I’m asking you”. OTOH, neither makes it a demand either.
It’s certainly more ambiguous than if she’d just said the “do not get with Joe” that Needfuldoer quoted above.
spriteless aunty
So much trashfire. If this was youtube we’d be hitting the front page.
i love both these characters and they are both making good points. this argument will turn into a fight and that fight will suck, but i believe after time and seeing how things with joe go, they will repair their friendship and go back to being besties
From what I’ve heard from most artists it’s pretty hard to actually get off to your own stuff. Dunno why. probably just a mental block since you just see the process of making it more than the lewdness of it.
Axel
I write erotica and I can only get off from it if I somehow forget I wrote it. Otherwise I’m either distracted by criticizing myself, looking for continuity errors, or being like “oh yeah, I worded this THIS way, because of this thing that inspired it” (which I might go jerk off to separately if the inspiration was erotic)
Axel
I have, however, jerked off during or after writing though, since my brain is deep in ‘what is the hottest possible thing to happen next for these characters.’ Preferably after, since I write it better when I’m actually wanting to do the things, rather than when I’m done.
Yotomoe
This has been my experience. Often times the SCENARIO in my head is hotter than what I actually put on the canvas. So I can get off on the idea but not the actual drawing, if that makes sense. Also the only art of mine I’ve found hot is art that is considerably old because often times I forget I drew it so it feels almost brand new to me.
When I’m in a very specific mood I’ll write a 6 paragraph sex scene embedded in 2 chapters of text, just to make sure it’s not contrived. The process of it requires that I relax and concentrate at the same time in order to be creative.
I have, unironically, watched porn with the sole motivation of getting references for art. It’s a weird feeling when I’m like actually studying the anatomy and not just…watching the video.
I have an entire folder of bookmarks of porn specifically for character design and position reference. I like to make certain that anything I describe is actually possible, which is easy enough for stuff I’ve done personally, but for anything outside, I like to get a reference video of actual humans.
Is “Happy Solstice” not appropriate for non-pagans? Aside from being a day late, that is. Happy Solstice athiests. Also everyone else, no matter what you believe, it was still the solstice yesterday.
JBento
Do other faiths celebrate the solstices? I mean, I don’t go “happy 12th of March” or whatever random date it happens to be on the calendar.
My search history is full of stuff on people going into damp caves. That’s not a sex thing, I’m writing a review paper on the effects of anthropogenic activity on subterrian ecosystems and troglodytic species diversity. Though some of the paper titles sound vaguely sexual “Population density, habitat dynamic and aerial survival of relict cave bivalves from genus Congeria in the Dinaric karst by Galvas et al” for example.
I mean, the student population on-campus is the size of a small city in itself (45,000+ as of last year). Joyce wouldn’t necessarily have to date within the circle of people they already know.
there’s actually an entire horde of perfectly decent, attractive, single guys with their own nuanced, complex personalities and rich inner lives, just off-screen at all times. if only these gals ever glanced past the strip border!
It’s like that episode of Gumball when they’re forced to acknowledge there’s students who go to the school outside of Gumball’s class.
Sirksome
Nah, there’s only around five guys and about twelve girls or so give or take the brief cameo and the one or two gender non conformers that maybe can fit either category which you think would make dating easier but most likely doesn’t. If Joyce can’t get Joe to work I guess she better start looking into Lyle or broaden her gender pool.
Needfuldoer
That was a bit after my time; did they handle it better than Ed, Edd, n’ Eddy? (Most of the series took place on one cul-de-sac over summer vacation, then they made a season where the characters went back to school. Problem is they didn’t fill the school out with extras, and there were never any adults in the series at all. As a result the school scenes felt empty, almost post-apocalyptic. The only time they introduced an additional character was the finale.)
Sidenote: Tony becoming an active character in DOA would honestly make my day. It’s never going to happen, and it’s honestly funnier that he’s irrelevant, but a man can dream.
Needfuldoer
Poor kid deserves a break, after everything he went through in the old continuity.
254 thoughts on “Disliked”
DarkoNeko
Dorothy tried to warn some of her high school friends too… it never worked.
Decidedly Orthogonal
And Willis tried to warn their past self. But alt-text autobiographical references cannot be searched in the past.
anon
i mean from what we’ve seen/heard has joe ever had a steady ‘girlfriend’ versus casual hookups, i guess it might be harder as a thing to offer to underage teens even if it’s someone in your friend group or a hot popular girl/guy at school offering but it does seem like it’d cause drama if it was openly known that multiple ppl liked the same person
(i mean , idk how many ppl got caught or would be bitter/resentful but when i was younger there was like a ‘one week’ etiquette before dating someone’s ex in a friend group but this was before smartphones so other than being neighbors/in after school clubs/teams where they’d have chances to spend time and not be seen idk how many ppl risked sneaking around)
thejeff
I assume the intent is that she tried to warn the girls Joe asked out that he was only interested in the casual hookup, not in a girlfriend. Pretty sure Dorothy doesn’t think he’s really interested in a steady girlfriend now, nor has Joyce given her any reason to think she knows better.
Ana Chronistic
Becky is hiding in the rafters, eyebrows up, listening to Horny Joyce
Steamweed
Dina has taught Becky well.
RoyanRannedos
Echoing from the distance: HOMPK!
King Daniel
Dumbing of Age Book 13: I Was Fine With Ethan, Because I Didn’t Know He Was Gay
…wait no
Bryy
I’d be down with it.
Tan
Dumbing of Age Book 13: It’s Not Revenge
(or is it)
Mark
If it’s supposed to express a theme for the whole book, I suggest “Listen to me, Joyce, your best friend.”
someone
Yeah, out of context it sounds kinda homophobic.
poofdepoof
I enjoy that they’re both wrong
Nono
I wonder how much Joyce is actually enjoying being in denial.
We know that she occasionally gets a kick of bringing up her old fundie beliefs just to be like ‘haha wow, I used to believe that???’
jackiedu46k
Yeah dotty is wrong about Joe (understandably) and Joyce, who doesnt get why she’d be wrong, is wrong about Dorothy’s motives! This is fun chaos.
FlyingFish
It’s alarmingly easy to forget that people sometimes have different information than you do, and from there, it’s a short hop to “they don’t actually believe what they’re saying, no sensible person does, therefore they’re up to something.”
Joyce was raised by a family that likely drew this conclusion about others a LOT, and hasn’t dropped the habit.
Archieve
Joyce has also been raised to always obey authority figures (what Dorothy has set herself up as here) so part of her anger is also trying to reassert her stance with Joe because she’s not used to simply going ‘ you and I may not agree but I have a right to make my own choices’
James
Yeah, this is really a perfect storm of differing information and experiences and unfortunate neuroses clashing in terrible ways.
Joyce is an adult who’s capable of making her own decisions, and she’s attracted to Joe on multiple levels, but she’s definitely in denial about how much her sexual repression is affecting things and her need to be independent is almost certainly going to blind her a bit to taking information or advice from someone with much more knowledge of Joe’s past behavior.
Dorothy, meanwhile, would honestly be right to be kind of concerned that Noted Horndog Chauvinist Joe is apparently showing interest in someone who is both highly inexperienced in dating and has been sexually assaulted before, but is also absolutely going to overstep bounds due to her established need to be right and take on protector/leader roles, and is almost certainly influenced by Joyce’s recent diagnosis.
Narratively it’s a great setup in which both characters are right and wrong about different things at the same time, ie, exactly what you want in a work of fiction about personal relationships and painful growth.
In the comments section, it’s the perfect recipe for a trash fire.
Needfuldoer
Completely agreed.
This plays into their dynamic perfectly, just like the optometrist visit. Dorothy has concerns, but they manifest as authority (“I booked an eye appointment for you”, “do not get with Joe”) instead of peer interaction (“you should get your eyes checked”, “you know what you’re getting into, right?”) That just makes Joyce dig her heels in.
thejeff
She is coming off strong, but not quite that strong. I mean, she does say “don’t get with Joe” last strip, but right after “Please, I am asking you”.
Needfuldoer
That doesn’t sound like asking to me.
thejeff
She literally says “I am asking you”. Even says “please”.
Bryy
It came off as “LISTEN TO ME” instead of “please i am asking you to listen to me”.
Joy
The Jeff is right in my opinion.
Uly
Despite what you were told as a child, the word “please” does not make a phrase a request. Lots of people say “please” in lots of contexts where, in fact, they’re not making anything like a request at all. They’re just being polite.
thejeff
It’s possible, but given what we see, I think it comes down to how we already see the character in this scene.
We can’t hear her tone, which would probably make it clear.
“Please” doesn’t necessarily make a request. Nor, I guess, does the “I’m asking you”. OTOH, neither makes it a demand either.
It’s certainly more ambiguous than if she’d just said the “do not get with Joe” that Needfuldoer quoted above.
spriteless aunty
So much trashfire. If this was youtube we’d be hitting the front page.
Nicoleandmaggie
Yeah, this one made me laugh. So
Much going on.
Stephen Bierce
I’d quote “Cleopatterer” but that is a song I don’t really know, just know of.
Jonah Sanville
i love both these characters and they are both making good points. this argument will turn into a fight and that fight will suck, but i believe after time and seeing how things with joe go, they will repair their friendship and go back to being besties
i hope
BarerMender
Or else Dorothy skies off to Yale and we never see her again.
Rose by Any Other Name
I mean, I have a lot of stuff in my search history that is story research.
Doesn’t mean I (and you) didn’t masturbate to it, Joyce. Just that, when writing romance, that is sometimes part of the process.
The Wellerman
Tell me about it! If you manage to rub one out on your own work, it’s a good sign! ??
Yotomoe
From what I’ve heard from most artists it’s pretty hard to actually get off to your own stuff. Dunno why. probably just a mental block since you just see the process of making it more than the lewdness of it.
Axel
I write erotica and I can only get off from it if I somehow forget I wrote it. Otherwise I’m either distracted by criticizing myself, looking for continuity errors, or being like “oh yeah, I worded this THIS way, because of this thing that inspired it” (which I might go jerk off to separately if the inspiration was erotic)
Axel
I have, however, jerked off during or after writing though, since my brain is deep in ‘what is the hottest possible thing to happen next for these characters.’ Preferably after, since I write it better when I’m actually wanting to do the things, rather than when I’m done.
Yotomoe
This has been my experience. Often times the SCENARIO in my head is hotter than what I actually put on the canvas. So I can get off on the idea but not the actual drawing, if that makes sense. Also the only art of mine I’ve found hot is art that is considerably old because often times I forget I drew it so it feels almost brand new to me.
Joy
When I’m in a very specific mood I’ll write a 6 paragraph sex scene embedded in 2 chapters of text, just to make sure it’s not contrived. The process of it requires that I relax and concentrate at the same time in order to be creative.
Yotomoe
I have, unironically, watched porn with the sole motivation of getting references for art. It’s a weird feeling when I’m like actually studying the anatomy and not just…watching the video.
Rose by Any Other Name
I have an entire folder of bookmarks of porn specifically for character design and position reference. I like to make certain that anything I describe is actually possible, which is easy enough for stuff I’ve done personally, but for anything outside, I like to get a reference video of actual humans.
AGV
I call it “The Art Block Buster”
Clif
I’m left with the inescapable conclusion that I’ve been doing story research wrong.
JBento
Happy solstice, Only Person In the Commentariat I Know Is Pagan.
Rose by Any Other Name
Thanks! And a happy Solstice to you too!
I got several lovely gifts, including two fantasy/romance novels.
The Wellerman
Oooooo! That sounds fantastic!!! I would very much like to know how you decorate your tree if that’s no problem 🙂
Happy Solstice!!! ???
Skeptible
Is “Happy Solstice” not appropriate for non-pagans? Aside from being a day late, that is. Happy Solstice athiests. Also everyone else, no matter what you believe, it was still the solstice yesterday.
JBento
Do other faiths celebrate the solstices? I mean, I don’t go “happy 12th of March” or whatever random date it happens to be on the calendar.
Laura
Joyous Solstice!
Laura
And a very festive Kwanzaa to all! Habari Gani?
Sporky
OPITCIKIP for short
jackiedu46k
Research, that’s a good excuse. Gotta start using it…
StClair
also covers plagiarism![1]
1. Lehrer, T. “Lobachevsky”, 1951.
Xujhan
I grew up listening to my mum’s Tom Lehrer recordings on cassette and I *adore* seeing this reference in the wild.
True Survivor
My search history is full of stuff on people going into damp caves. That’s not a sex thing, I’m writing a review paper on the effects of anthropogenic activity on subterrian ecosystems and troglodytic species diversity. Though some of the paper titles sound vaguely sexual “Population density, habitat dynamic and aerial survival of relict cave bivalves from genus Congeria in the Dinaric karst by Galvas et al” for example.
Clif
That Et Al guy is awfully promiscuous tho. You see him with all kinds of partners.
Laura
I think it’s actually just Al. He must be a voraphile. He gets “Et” all the time.
Nono
Not saying Dorothy is wrong (because well, she’s not), but also… who WOULD Dorothy be okay with Joyce dating?
I mean, the pool of (available) men is pretty darn low. There’s… Jim? I guess Joyce talked to him for a few minutes.
King Daniel
I mean, the student population on-campus is the size of a small city in itself (45,000+ as of last year). Joyce wouldn’t necessarily have to date within the circle of people they already know.
Reltzik
Except it’s Joyce and strangers spook her out since Ryan.
miz
there’s actually an entire horde of perfectly decent, attractive, single guys with their own nuanced, complex personalities and rich inner lives, just off-screen at all times. if only these gals ever glanced past the strip border!
Yotomoe
It’s like that episode of Gumball when they’re forced to acknowledge there’s students who go to the school outside of Gumball’s class.
Sirksome
Nah, there’s only around five guys and about twelve girls or so give or take the brief cameo and the one or two gender non conformers that maybe can fit either category which you think would make dating easier but most likely doesn’t. If Joyce can’t get Joe to work I guess she better start looking into Lyle or broaden her gender pool.
Needfuldoer
That was a bit after my time; did they handle it better than Ed, Edd, n’ Eddy? (Most of the series took place on one cul-de-sac over summer vacation, then they made a season where the characters went back to school. Problem is they didn’t fill the school out with extras, and there were never any adults in the series at all. As a result the school scenes felt empty, almost post-apocalyptic. The only time they introduced an additional character was the finale.)
Bryy
But are they in the main cast?
That’s the litmus here.
Nono
Actually, Joyce dating Tony would be hilarious, from a multiverse standpoint.
I Know Why the Mowed Lawn Screams
Absolutely.
Sidenote: Tony becoming an active character in DOA would honestly make my day. It’s never going to happen, and it’s honestly funnier that he’s irrelevant, but a man can dream.
Needfuldoer
Poor kid deserves a break, after everything he went through in the old continuity.
drs
“who WOULD Dorothy be okay with Joyce dating?”
Danny?
Nono
Danny’s dating Sal.
drs
Does Dorothy know that?
ischemgeek