156

Doris
Posted on March 12, 2021 by David M Willis

156 thoughts on “Doris”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    Self-Demonstrating Article

    1. He Who Abides

      You’re a cruel woman, Ana Chronistic.

    2. Rose by Any Other Name

      **clicks link**
      … must… resist… clicking… further… links….

      1. Jenn

        I know myself too well to even think of clicking a TVTropes link.

        I do it anyway sometimes, but at least I know I shouldn’t.

    3. Lys

      nooo… I have… exams… And I already read that article like seventeen times…

    4. StClair

      dooooooooooom

    5. Clif

      While appreciating the joke, I still feel we should thank Willis for the pro-tip.

      1. milu

        I mean, the joke is all in the lampshading, so I’m not sure it’s meant to be taken as literal advice

    6. Keulen

      Yeah that TVTropes link is gonna stay unclicked.

  2. Srancamon

    I am not confident that either Joyce or Walky actually know how to craft a joke

    1. Undrave

      Probably not but at least Joyce has some world building on her side.

    2. Sirksome

      The comic strip doesn’t necessarily have to be funny. I’d argue most newspaper comics aren’t. You ever read Doonesbury?

      1. Needfuldoer

        Doonesbury is political commentary, and that only used to be funny until actual politics turned into a farcical version of itself and the commentary couldn’t keep up anymore. My paper used to run it on the Opinion page opposite Incredulous Anthropomorphic Conservative Duck Mallard Fillmore.

        I only read a few newspaper strips out of habit, but very few are what I’d call unironically “good”. In my experience Boomers hate anything that isn’t the same blandly drawn, milquetoast blah they’ve been reading for decades. (And guess who buys newspapers?) The boring stuff keeps the industry afloat, because it makes money for the syndicates, but that also discourages risk-taking on picking up something new and innovative. (Thankfully, webcomics more than make up for it!)

        The older I get, the more ai understand and appreciate Bill Watterson’s decision to go out on top.

        1. thejeff

          Doonesbury’s not just political commentary. It’s also character driven. Blatantly political strips are a serious minority. It’s never really been a gag a day strip, though it does try to have some kind of a punchline most times.
          It’s nothing at all like Mallard Fillmore – even beyond me liking Trudeau’s politics a lot more.

          It also started out as a campus paper comic about a couple of mismatched roommates and ballooned.

        2. Kamino Neko

          So, what you’re saying is Gary Trudeau and Willis are the same person.

        3. Ray Radlein

          Also, John Kerry made appearances in Doonesbury when it was just a campus comic, so we now know that Dorothy will eventually run for President

    3. JessWitt

      Maybe not separately.

      But together? … The jury’s still out on that one.

      1. FacelessDeviant

        Oooh. A joint venture, that might be where this is leading!

        1. JessWitt

          Yeah I’m keeping my fingers crossed for this team-up to happen.

  3. Octopus Ink

    Wow. I’ve touched on this same phenomenon in one of my own comics.
    When, exactly did this narrative event even become a ‘thing’?!

    1. Undrave

      Probably Garfield. When in doubt, blame Garfield.

      1. RassilonTDavros

        They haven’t stopped making frozen pudding pops, have they?

        1. foamy

          A fellow connoisseur of the Irregulars, I take it.

      2. Octopus Ink

        I’m actually starting to get that impression from the Internet Peanut Gallery and have often wondered when THAT particular phenom became a ‘thing’! Made a comic about that, as well.

      3. Kamino Neko

        The beat panel goes back to the earliest days of comics, though, apparently it goes more popular in the 70s. TV Tropes credits Doonsbury with making it a more than occasional thing. (The first Doonsbury strip to do it is from October 31, 1970…well before Garfield. The next one with a wordless penultimate panel is less than a week later, but that one’s not just a reaction-beat, it’s functional.)

      4. Needfuldoer

        Garfield peaked in the early 90s. Change my mind.

        1. Dang Fool

          James Garfield died in ’81. Yer thinking of Arthur

        2. Tawnee

          James Arthur hasn’t even peaked yet, he’s got so much more to show us musically AND lyrically.

  4. Sirksome

    President Doris being Dorothy would make the make out scenes with Julia Grey really awkward. Good thing neither of those characters are real. Just totally made up non self inserts. That’s why it’s called fiction.

  5. RassilonTDavros

    Was that… was that a particular problem that early Willis had that I just never noticed during my Roomies! binge?

    1. RassilonTDavros

      Eh, maybe it’s a Sly Sirs thing.

      1. Cholma

        Ooh, DEEP CUT.

  6. General Tekno

    NOT WRONG.

  7. Shiro

    Okay, that was clever, well done

  8. DailyBrad

    Hehe, I love this.

  9. Wagstaff

    Now, this is what game development is supposed to be like…
    doing the laziest things, and people never knowing or even caring.

  10. cmasta1992

    The fourth wall tapped out! You don’t have to keep up the attack!

    1. RassilonTDavros

      The Fourth Wall has a nap!!

      Hold out!! Fourth Wall!!

  11. Nono

    Is there a history of the beat panel, when it was first used, it’s rise to popularity, and did it ever fall out of fashion and/or come back to fashion retro style?

    1. drs

      Tweet at Scott McCloud?

      1. khn0

        Rather Benoit Peeters

    2. Kamino Neko

      I can’t find any reference to its first use, but according to TV Tropes, Doonsbury is the strip that moved it from ‘an occasionally useful part of the cartoonist’s toolbox’ to ‘a standard load-bearing device’.

    3. davidbreslin101

      I wonder if its decline was started by the XKCD parody of Achewood, featuring 10 panels of awkward silence….

  12. BBCC

    Oh, right, art skills. Oops?

    Now, see, Walky might make a stick figure comic work – his ideas sound pretty gag-a-day. Joyce wants a plot and significant character work. This might be fun to see how it shakes out.

    1. BBCC

      Well played, gravitar roulette, well played.

      1. Sirksome

        It’s always fun to reroll and see what you get in a BBCC comment thread let’s go!

        1. Sirksome

          Yeah…uh…no.

        2. BBCC

          I love Malaya. Maybe next time!

        3. Clif

          Next time for sure.

        4. I am Nothing

          Whoop.

      2. Regalli

        Sometimes, the Grav Roulette sees an opportunity.

      3. Deanatay

        So how many weird capitalizations have you tried, at this point?

    2. King Daniel

      To be fair, we did see a little while ago that Walky fears Joyce’s art skills, even providing Lucy with an example. 😛

      1. King Daniel

        Didn’t I get you yesterday?

        1. King Daniel

          And same goes for you…last roll of the day (unless it’s a big ol’ NOPE)

        2. King Daniel

          ehm…I don’t hate Booster, but I don’t think I want them as a grav.

        3. King Daniel

          YES VICTORY IS MINE AT LAST ASHER PARTAYYY TIME

        4. King Daniel

          (Carla, you’ll still be my posting-from-phone grav, that way I can keep you and Asher both)

      2. BBCC

        Oh yeaaaaahhhh, she draws Roomies style. Godspeed, Joyce, godspeed.

  13. Some1

    I worry though, because Julia Gray is very clearly Joyce’s fantasy about herself, which doesn’t exactly lend itself to a well rounded character with realistic flaws.

    1. Mariah Hardnett

      If i learned one this that the mary sue label is thrown around way to much if jocye wants to write a self insert character let her.

      1. StClair

        Doesn’t everyone start that way, really?

        1. Chris Phoenix

          1) “Write what you know.”

          2) “Mary Sue” is far too often an anti-woman weapon. Consider: If David Weber had been a woman, Honor Harrington would have been excoriated as a Mary Sue.

  14. Ray Radlein

    Real Olivia Jaimes Nancy energy with that joke

    1. Needfuldoer

      Sluggo Walky is lit.

  15. Stephen Bierce

    *looks in vain for some Mark Russell parodies of “Hail To The Chief” to play*

    1. Geneseepaws

      There should be a “Jail to the chief,” left over from when Dick Nixon was prez.

  16. Greg

    See my go-to was to just have six or seven wordless panels to really ruin my own jokes.

  17. Sirksome

    I will say this. Joyce clearly has more of a passion for this than Walky appears to. I’m not gonna make a snap decision on it yet, but Joyce is clearly having more fun.

  18. Mister Gray

    So Joyce is Willis. Does this count as a self insert? Isn’t that frowned upon in books?

    1. saltchocolate

      Joyce is Willis was the joke of the entire first book. This is an example of the call-back.

    2. Regalli

      Joyce is autobiographical (specifically the ‘grew up in an autocratic fundamentalist household, faith broke HARD in college upon meeting people they were taught to hate and realizing all these people were actually awesome, had mental crisis, also, got glasses’. We’re pretty sure Willis has never been kidnapped by a murderous mob stooge in an attempt to get back at his vigilante daughter, not that he would tell us anyway.) This is merely bringing her ever-closer to her natural endpoint, Internet Pornleige.

      1. C.T Phipps

        That we know of.

      2. Bryy

        Sometimes I wonder how much of the murder and kidnapping stuff is taken from real life events.

      3. Dave

        See also mother and father divorcing with the mother staying hardcore ultra-Christian ’til the end (and beyond, with her will leaving Willis’ childhood home to her church).

        1. Regalli

          Pretty sure the childhood home was sold during the divorce, actually.

          But uh, yeah, difficult family aspects for sure.

    3. Jane

      Honestly, the idea of “Self Insert Is Bad” has its roots more in fanfiction (where, admittedly, plenty of authors get their start) than it does writing per se. This is because a frustratingly large number of first-time writers first idea is “Hey, what if I was part of (popular franchise), and it was great!” – a fantasy that’s probably very entertaining to the one writing, but less so for anyone without a pre-existing connection to the main character. A character with autobiographical characteristics doesn’t really fall under the guideline (even if the concept has drifted somewhat since then) since it’s exploring a part of the character or their past, rather than acting as a vehicle for the author’s personal fantasies.

      I could elaborate on this a bit, but… Eh, doing it unprompted (like the three paragraphs I deleted) feels a bit unnecessary.

      1. Regalli

        Even then, people tend to put some aspect of themselves into characters with some regularity, and it’s not necessarily a bad thing. In fanfic, the autistic person writing a lengthy musing on Dina’s interactions with the world that contains a lot of projection could be a great read. In original characters, giving characters certain traits of yours can help them ring truer to life. (Say, Joyce’s struggle with her loss of faith, or Ethan and Amber’s nerdy interests having very specific facets like Transformers knowledge rather than a Big Bang Theory-style Generic Nerddom.) You really just need to learn how to use it properly – don’t cheat a situation you set up to avoid giving that character consequences, and don’t be afraid to let those characters be brutally wrong at times. You can literally dump yourself in an existing work and still make it worth reading by showing what your character brings to the table, how you change things, but also how you make new, different problems that need adapting to. If you’re willing to make your character complex enough to be interesting before they do anything too big, people are willing to care. (It’s tricky to pull off well, but at the same time there’s definitely a market – just look at all the isekai anime where some nerd gets dumped into their favorite fictional video game.)

        1. Jane

          Just to clarify, that was the two-second explanation of “Why Self-Insert Has A Bad Rep” (to reiterate, because it’s generally shorthand for a character that doesn’t get enough development living out the author’s fantasies). If a work doesn’t do that, it’s not a problem.

          There’s more that can be said, certainly, but I felt that would just unnecessarily muddy the waters. If a person wants to know why something is frowned upon, adding a bunch of caveats is unlikely to help them – even if I would enjoy examining the boundaries of a problem.

          (Besides, self-insert originally referred only to works in which the author was explicitly a character in the story, which is why it was more of a fanfiction issue than a general writing issue. It’s only later that people started using it to refer to any character the author seemed to value more than the others, and attempting to use the “new” definition with the old rule doesn’t have much value.)

    4. Sam

      That is more frowned upon by grouchy people upset that the content is written for the author more than for them when it comes to books and fanfics. With RPs, if everyone is doing it, it is fine. It basically falls into the same line of Mary Sues and Gary Stus being perfectly useful and viable for processing stuff in your own writing but it won’t be super entertaining for anyone else until they are made more complex and compelling to an audience.

      Joyce has been stated since day one to be autobiographical in a lot of ways but she is also a well-rounded fleshed out character with experiences that diverge as I doubt Willis was at a party and someone dressed as a superhero turned up. But there are then things he has talked about for real like how he used to be super Christian and his parents getting divorced and how his mother’s views were very extreme.

    5. Spencer

      “Self inserting is bad” is such a weird piece of advice, especially since the golden rule writers keep throwing is “write what you know.”

      If I ever write a novel, which I’d certainly like to, dang right the protagonist is going to be bi as fuck. That shit’s real to me, that’s what I want to see in stuff.

    6. David M Willis

      like “joyce is autobiographical” in bold text has been on the About/Read Before Posting page for over a decade

      so

      uh

      1. deathjavu

        Forgive me if I’m projecting, but a *lot* of fictionalized characters are oberamplifying parts of oneself into distinct characters. I seem to remember Willis identifying with pieces of Joyce, Walky and Dina among others. Personally I see the same things in my writing. It *shouldn’t* be surprising given that they all came from the same brain.

        I really hope this isn’t news to anyone. Seriously. Think about it for .002 milliseconds.

    7. Rectilinear Propagation

      Frowned upon by whom?

  19. Regalli

    METAGEDDON HAS BEEN ACHIEVED!

  20. LuminousLead

    Nice and meta.

  21. C.T Phipps

    Is it wrong I want to see Walky’s journey to cartoon stardom more?

    1. Clif

      Sure. Why not?

    2. milu

      I’m there for him if and only if he hires Dina as scientific advisor

  22. Reltzik

    I’d accuse Joyce of leaning on the fourth wall, but that giant chair doesn’t HAVE a fourth wall.

    1. RassilonTDavros

      Clearly, Dorothy is trying to show her that the true path is to get atop the fourth wall.

      They have chicken tenders up there.

      1. Rectilinear Propagation

        Her comic better be good though. I hear they burn the bad ones.

        1. Chronos

          That’s not a lesson she’s gonna learn.

        2. Deanatay

          Joyce: You know, I have all of these backed up on my laptop.

          Daisy: Eh, the fire’s mostly for psychological purposes, anyway.

          J: But, I have other copies. I won’t be psychologically affected by this at all.

          D: You? The fire’s for me!! Heheh, burn, terrible comics! BURN!!!

        3. cbwroses

          Joyce: how are you suddenly wearing that pretty hat? And where did you buy a magic gun?

    2. SuperZero

      You know that’s the point of the fourth wall, right? That it’s the one that’s not actually there?

  23. Nayann Martinelli

    I am pretty sure President Doris isn’t based on Dorothy, just as Julia Gray isn’t AT ALL Joyce. Why, Julia wear cool shades, and Joyce wears your old regular glasses.

  24. AbacusWizard

    What I love about this particular strip is that it works no matter when you stop reading. First panel? Funny. First two panels? Funny. First three panels? Funny. All but the last panel? Funny. Whole thing? Still funny. This is good stuff. Very meta.

    1. King Daniel

      How about if you read the panels in reverse?

  25. Bagge

    I can’t believe I ever thought president Doris is based on Dorothy. My bad.

    1. milu

      I don’t know why people keep silently implying that president Doris is Dorothy. Like Dorothy very obviously did in panel 1, which is why this clarification was needed. Yet again!

    2. Spencer

      How could you even consider that? She has dark hair.

      1. milu

        It’s very odd how people keep getting confused about this!

  26. TrueVCU

    I’m so meta, even this art

  27. dej

    We’re reaching levels of meta that shouldn’t be possible

    1. danielle

      increase the meta!

      1. Edwin I Callahan

        Unleash the Meta.

    2. Keulen

      The meta side of the comics is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.

  28. JessWitt

    I’m not proud that this strip took me a minute to get. But I can’t stop smiling now that I know. ?

  29. Mikey

    Oh man, that’s how at least 90% of humor webcomics were back in the 00s. It was always something like this:

    PANEL 1: “Weird, our bank account’s almost empty.”
    “This new video game is great!”

    PANEL 2: “I don’t recall making any large purchases…”
    “The other new one I bought is even better!”

    PANEL 3: *wordless*

    PANEL 4: “Did you spend all our money on games!?”
    “Yay! Video games!”

    1. Needfuldoer

      I’m so glad webcomics evolved past their “gamers on a couch” phase.

    2. milu

      Calving & Hobbes used this, sparingly. Here’s an instance (did I jump at the chance to spend an hour reading Calvin & Hobbes this morning? sure. Is this a productive use of my time? Ehn. But does this greatly contribute to this conversation?…………. ok, no, not at all.)

      PANEL 1: Calvin and Hobbes are jumping across a creek.
      Calvin: Hobbes, do you think our morality is defined by our actions, or by what’s in our hearts?

      PANEL 2: Calvin and Hobbes are climbing over a rock.
      Hobbes: I think our actions SHOW what’s in our hearts.

      PANEL 3: Calvin stops, stares at 4th wall, taken aback.

      PANEL 4: Calvin shouts at Hobbes, off-panel to the right: I RESENT THAT!

  30. foducool

    lol I see what you did there

  31. Chronos

    …how autobiographical is Joyce here?

    1. milu

      i dunno, does Willis live in a linear succession of panels?

      1. Clif

        Are you familiar with the concept of a Planck time?

        1. King Daniel

          Is that when you live out your life on an elongated wooden slab?

        2. milu

          Actually it’s to do with the fact that in the early days of comics they used to be printed using woodcuts, aka Plancks (which is the old english spelling, capitalization and all, retained only in this specialized sense). A “Planck time” is the time it took a printer to gouge out one panel for printing. They used to be so fast at this that a Planck time came to be known in the profession as a minimal unit of time against which to measure any other duration.

  32. Bryy

    By the by, I finally looked up Indiana U. on Google. Holy SHIT, that school is huge.

  33. Mr.Morningstar

    This is very meta

    1. BenRG

      This entire arc is meta almost to excess!

  34. Keulen

    Not yet breaking the fourth wall, but they’re getting damn close.

  35. BenRG

    I think that Willis basically saying here: “Look, I’m sorry. In my defence, I really only half knew what I was doing back then!” All I can say in reply is that we all have to start from somewhere and then improve with time!

    (Yes, Roomies is rubbish compared to late-era Walkyverse and DoA and I don’t think it’s unfair to say that).

    1. Regalli

      It is… very, very rough. On many, many levels.

    2. RassilonTDavros

      I mean, when Willis shits all over their past work, I think it’s fair to shit all over it. Though honestly there are some bits so awful that they aren’t even fun to shit on— the “joke” about Sal needing an Adam’s apple check comes to mind. Or the early It’s Walky! strip where Mike says Sal has “huge monkey ears.” Or the now retconned-out joke about Bill Clinton trying to get Joyce under his desk, which thankfully got reworked into Bill hiding under his desk from possessed Squad 48 agents in the redraw.

    3. deathjavu

      This is exactly why I’m sure both joyce and Walky’s comics will be garbage – willis is all too aware of how bad novice works are. First time instrument players are bad, first time writers are bad, and first time comicers are bad, as sure as the sunrise. Why *would* they be good??

  36. milu

    Love how alt-text!Willis, who is usually all sarcastic and cool, couldn’t resist patting himself on the shoulder this one time ^^

  37. Arianod

    The meta intensifies.

  38. goggleman64

    *slow clap*

  39. auroki

    Glasses Joyce is slowly becoming my favorite joyce

  40. BenRG

    Is it me or is panel 2 Joyce revealing much by pre-emptive denial?

    1. RassilonTDavros

      It just hit me…

      …what if part of the reason why Joyce is so in denial is that with her parents split up, she’s scared shitless of what Carol might do to her now that she’s entirely free of Hank’s voice of reason? Considering she condoned Toedad’s actions several times and got him released from prison, I honestly wouldn’t put doing the same thing past her and I’m betting Joyce wouldn’t either. I don’t even wanna think of what she’d do if she found out the truth about Jocelyne.

      1. milu

        but that’s not how denial works? Her subconscious can’t have such specific and sensible reasons for keeping herself from acknowledging her homoerotic desires. A general sense of danger will do that well enough though

        1. RassilonTDavros

          To be fair, I don’t mean to say that that’s the only reason by any stretch. I think her general denial of having any sexual feelings at all is pretty well-documented at this point. I just think that it may be one factor among many.

  41. Makkabee

    So President Doris is Amber?

  42. Lordhaw

    This whole chair routine reminds me so much of the Charlie Brown/Linus discussions leaning on the wall somehow. Nice job Mr. Willis

  43. Rabisch

    Joyce already knows all the important things. Her strip will be a blast!

  44. Tan

    A good laugh, probably: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/03-see-you-in-the-funny-page/return-2/

  45. Vulcanodon

    This is like a reward for hanging in there during the stressful parts…

  46. Pat

    *slowclap*

  47. Megan Rivera

    I’m enjoying how meta this all is becoming lately

  48. thumb

    damn it willis

  49. HeySo

    That third panel should actually be the fifth panel. It’s so obvious!

    1. HeySo

      (But really, it was kinda fun moving it around to each possible position. ^.^
      Pity it can’t fit in the first panel position, but it basically works for any of the rest.)

      1. milu

        https://imgur.com/a/ShqoWTn

        1. Sam

          That made me smile.

        2. HeySo

          ?

  50. Kate

    Ryan North knows

  51. Rani

    …does the January 6th insurrection happen in DoA’s verse? And was Carol involved?

    1. BBCC

      It probably happened but it probably won’t be addressed in depth because of the sliding time scale. By next year, this strip will take place in January 2022 and the insurrection will have been last year, before they got to school. Then it’ll take place in 2023 and then 2024 and so on and so on.

  52. Sensei Le Roof

    Hee hee, nice subversion.

  53. Aviana

    For folks at home, the wordless panel was moved to the middle this time! Peak humor. (Sincerely, I snickered.)

  54. DarkoNeko

    that’s… very meta

  55. Jhon

    Lucy: Costume? But this is just pajamas.
    Walky: Because NightGirl rules the night!

  56. Icalasari

    Huh, she’s already learning the tricks

  57. Hinoron

    Should you really be giving away all your tricks, Dave?

Leave a Reply to StClair Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

*

*

*

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.