Yes. With 3 choices, and the *obvious* one being the person who responded to Walky’s whisper to run, Linda the Racist chose the only white girl there.
Marvelman
I’m not entirely convinced of the racist part, but I am admittedly an extreme skeptic about nearly everything. I mean… it’s probably true, but all we have to go on is Sal’s extremely biased account of her childhood, and Linda did marry a black man so… I’m curious to hear what Linda has to say for herself.
not someone else
Why is it biased? Like… just because it’s her own opinion of her own life?
Marvelman
That’s exactly what I’m saying. Even the most fair-minded person has her biases, and Sal isn’t exactly fair-minded. I just get the feeling there is more to Sal’s childhood than Sal is willing or able to see. Her mom may not be the super-villain she imagines – only a flawed and imperfect person like everybody else. But, I may be wrong.
Bedovian
You’d be surprised how many racist people marry black people. Racism takes more forms than hurling slurs and actively preaching hate. It’s oftentimes far more subtle.
Enkrod
Just look at Ginny Thomas for example.
Bubbletea
Linda is probably definitely not racist in her own view of herself. She is, after all, fine with black people as long as they fit into the box she has assigned them. That box is informed by colorism, sexism, ableism, and respectability politics. And she isn’t a horrible person! On a surface level encounter she probably comes across as just FINE. It is just when you are around her longer that the more corrosive elements of her prejudices seep out.
Autogatos
Exactly. You’ve got your outright “I hate these people and don’t want them anywhere near me” bigots, but bigotry can also come in other, less blatantly obvious (to others outside the group) forms.
In fact I’d argue the most common forms of bigotry are the more subtle ones because they’re much more insidious. They’re easier to overlook and more tolerable to society which allows those kinds of views to gain a foothold and spread.
One super common type is the condescending/paternalistic variety where the person would never consider themselves bigoted because they (according to them) certainly don’t think *untrue* negative things about said group and have “black/disabled/female/gay/etc” friends! Their bigotry tends to take the form of “affectionate” superiority. They will tolerate or even befriend/marry/adopt members of the marginalized group, but still look down on the group as a whole, and may consider themselves a Really Good Person for “elevating” members of that group by associating with/“helping” them.
Some good examples of this type of bigotry are: white saviorism, “disability parents” (parents of disabled or ND kids who are ironically often ableist despite viewing themselves as disability advocates), the whole “love the sinner, hate the sin” thing (Christians who swear they don’t hate you, they’re just trying to save you because they care! They’re judging your entire identity as Wrong out of love!), and the entire incel movement (men who put women up on a pedestal, but in a super objectifying/dehumanizing way, while simultaneously being incredibly hostile towards them).
They often will view select members of the group as better than the rest because they have “overcome” the group’s perceived inferiorities or are the “right kind” of that type of person. Often then”right kind” is a marginalized person who experiences internalized or lateral bigotry and does their best to conform to the standards of the privileged or hide/downplay their own identity while looking down on those who don’t, basically tolerating or even agreeing with the bigotry towards their own group.
There’s something of a symbiotic relationship between paternalistic bigots and marginalized people with internalized bigotry. The latter gains a tiny taste of privilege by gaining some approval from the bigots in power (though never as much as the privileged group and it comes at the expense of other marginalized people) while the former gets to point to that person as an example of why they’re not actually bigoted/why their bigotry is correct
(Leading to classics such as: “I can’t be racist, I have a black friend/husband/daughter!” “well my disabled friend said it’s okay to accuse people of faking if they don’t look disabled” “my gay friend agrees with me that gay people should be more subtle in public” “my wife doesn’t like feminism and agrees that women are no longer oppressed and just complain too much”)
or even use a loved one’s marginalization as a shield or to get attention/victimize themselves (such as abled parents with a disabled child or white parents with a non-white child who use their kid as a prop while centering themselves/their struggles or painting themselves the savior)
Linda may not be the extremely obvious, mustache twirling, “purify society” kind of racist, but she is most likely the other type of racist, and probably considers her husband the “right kind” of black man because he manages to avoid matching certain stereotypes/manages to be the “ideal minority”. We haven’t got a lot of insight into Charles yet but it’s probably a safe assumption that he holds at least some internalized racism, based on his comment about Sal’s hair, and the fact that he either agrees with or at least tolerates Linda’s treatment of Sal and comments about Marcie (since he never seems to object to it).
I imagine Linda likely holds Charles (and their kids) to an excessively high standard and Charles and Walky (at least as far as she knows) have managed to meet her expectations, while Sal hasn’t. In her mind, her attitude towards Sal isn’t racism (and she’d likely be extremely offended by the suggestion that it is)* to her, it’s probably a resentment that she feels Sal has squandered/doesn’t appreciate the “opportunities” she’s been given (via her proximity to Linda’s whiteness and her dad’s efforts to be a model minority). In Linda’s mind, every mistake Sal makes is her carelessly taking that “gift” for granted and confirming negative racial stereotypes.
*Obviously it IS racism, just explaining how someone like Linda would probably see themselves and the mental gymnastics involved in a racist marrying a black person.
(Omg sorry this got so long, sometimes I type too much in an effort to explain things thoroughly)
Zero
Her mother stole money with the express purpose of preventing a child from receiving medical care after being violently attacked.
Jason
A non-white, heavily-implied-to-be-undocumented child. Just, you know. To add to the metaphorical moustache-twirling your point is about.
But it’s okay because she took it from her own child! /s
Shadow Dreamer
…I’ve missed SOMETHING, anyone have a link for context?
She may simply, on a gut level, not think of her husband as “Black”. There are indeed racists who have exceptions for individual Black people who are kind of “honorary white people” to them.
khn0
“Black skin, white mask”
StClair
“one of the good ones”
RoyanRannedos
Look into Dunbar’s Number for an interesting insight to this conundrum. Robin Dunbar is an anthropologist who noticed a pattern in medieval villages, factory workers, and any other group of humans: you can only closely know between 150 and 300 people. All the rest get categorized under biases.
To closely know someone means you’re current with their life and they’re current with your life. So I might be current with details of a celebrity’s life, but they aren’t close because they have no clue who I am. Those medieval villages averaged around 200 people, the theory goes, because once you have enough for two groups of 150, there’s the strong likelihood of forming an us-vs-them mentality and having one group vote themselves off the island. Taken to the extreme, you end up with groups like Joyce’s former congregation or the 1% whose position insulates them from getting accurate views of other people.
Long intro, but Walky’s Mom is obviously close with her husband. She knows him, and he knows her. But that’s not enough to change the pattern of “White people good, Black people uncertain if not dangerous” drilled into her brain during a racist upbringing.
Mark
See also “monkeysphere”. Every(?) primate species has such a number.
BBCC
And as we all know, it’s impossible to marry someone you’re bigoted against. Which is why misogynists never have wives!
And this isn’t aimed at you specifically, but it’s getting weird how many people in the comments are trying really hard to see Linda as anything but racist again. I’m seeing a lot more ‘It’s sexism/Sal’s just the older twin/It’s Sal’s behaviour/Sal’s misunderstanding/Walky’s just more ‘manageable’/etc.’ than was the case a few years ago.
Marvelman
Whoops! I accidentally flagged your post. Sorry! It was a mistake. I meant to hit “reply”. Anyways, these are all good points.
Thag Simmons
I’m worried I come across as apologetic when I talk about her, I think I have a slightly more charitable take on her than most, but even the most charitable take possible with her with is still a really unpleasant person who’s been a bad parent to both her children and was unquestionably racist towards her daughter’s best friend.
Mark
I think some of us are working to keep judgment suspended until we have enough facts (as opposed to emotionally-laden reports of things we haven’t seen) to make a precise judgment rather than a sweeping approximate one. What particular species of horrible person, if you will, so that we can despise that which is despicable and endorse that which is endorsable. Nobody is 100% bad.
BBCC
That may well be, but then I wonder what kind of ‘facts’ they’re waiting for and, on a narrative level, why they think it’d be a good idea for the answer to be ‘actually the racism is all in the black woman’s head and it’s a big misunderstanding’.
Mark
If I’m gonna destroy the underpinnings of someone’s worldview, I need to understand the superstructure in detail so I know where to place the charges, or I mayn’t cut the right members and the structure won’t collapse. Good enough?
BBCC
I get that and I can respect wanting to know what specific ‘flavour’ of awful you’re dealing with, but yeah, the reluctance to have racism as a key part of that superstructure and insisting it must actually be something else is grating. Especially when that would result in, as Willis put it, a storyline where it turns out the racism is in the black woman’s head all along.
Autogatos
Yeah, it’s important to remember that as fiction, there are ways to telegraph to the readers what conclusions we are supposed to draw.
As someone with progressive views, Willis is unlikely to be writing a story where a black woman’s perceived experience of racism is actually all in her head. Because that would be a pretty awful message given how often marginalized people are told they’re overreacting/reading too much into things when they try to point out micro aggressions and other forms of bigotry.
And as others have said, it’s generally good practice, even IRL when you don’t have all the facts, to not repeatedly insist the marginalized person may be mistaken. My policy if I’m not sure is to avoid commenting on the situation as the last thing a victim of bigotry needs is more people telling them they might be wrong about what they’ve experienced.
And while it’s not a real human being told they’re wrong about what they experienced here, the constant repeating of that sentiment even about a fictional character’s experiences echoes all the many times victims of bigotry experience that kind of doubt or gaslighting IRL.
thejeff
I don’t think the “Misogynists have wives” is really a good analogy. Sexism is all about women properly fitting into their “proper” role as sex objects, wives or mothers. Misogynists want wives, but they want them properly controlled and limited.
There’s no real parallel there for racists marrying. If there’s any kind of a parallel, it would be more like a racist having black servants – as was so common back in the day.
zee
The fetishization and objectification of black men by white women is a massive thing though. I don’t think I’d go as far as to say it’s the same, society is still patriarchal etc etc but the point still stands that just because you marry someone doesn’t mean you don’t dehumanize them. My theory? Linda thinks Charles is “one of the good ones”, he’s not even black i mean not really. He’s half white himself, he’s different from those uncivilized brutes. All that plus probably a little classic racist fetishization. And a sense of ownership given they have a sort of “yes dear…” “Go ask your mother” type of relationship
All subconscious of course. Because Linda’s good people, of course she’d never think of her dear husband like that
thejeff
All good points. It’s just that specific analogy I don’t like precisely because for sexism has so long been precisely about dehumanizing women and marrying them.
BBCC
It’s not a perfect analogy, but the point is it is possible to marry someone you’re bigoted against. If it doesn’t work for you, swap it for homophobic women with gay friends, ableist assholes with disabled partners, etc.
Autogatos
I dunno, while obviously no one type of bigotry is precisely the same as another, and individual scenarios may manifest in different ways, I think it’s a pretty reasonable analogy. And I say this as a woman.
All forms of bigotry have some element of feeling that members of that group have a “proper place” (a place that is in some way inferior to the person of privilege). Racists still want people of other races to behave in certain ways, fill certain roles, “know their place in society”, etc. whether that place is “not a member of society at all” or “part of society but a less important/less respected part than me” or “part of society as long as they conform to my precise expectations of who they should be/how they should look or act.”
So I guess I don’t really get the objection to the analogy. Like BBCC said, swap in any other group, ultimately the point is having affection for someone doesn’t mean you can’t judge them unfairly or have bigoted feelings about a marginalized group they are part of, even if the exact way the dynamic manifests isn’t identical.
Kindra
I would argue that it doesn’t even necessarily matter if Sal is right or not that racism made her the unfavorite. Whether or not that was the initial cause, the effect was still the same. Walky got preferential treatment and Sal got constantly treated as not good enough.
(Personally, I suspect it was a combo of subconscious racial bias + sexism that Sal got hit with. And Linda would probably only ever be able to realize the sexism, if she did a WHOLE lot of soul-searching.)
not alex
Well that was eye-rolling.
Stu
She may have an issue with dark-skinned women specifically – also, there was a VERY boundary-crossing MadTV skit called “Inside Looking Out”, in which Jordan Peele played a black man in a relationship with an EXTREMELY racist white woman (played by Nicole Parker).
SeanR
You can overcome a bias. I’m not saying you can become unbaised, although that is also true. You can, conditionally, overcome a bias, on a case-by-case basis. It happens all the time.
I always kind of thought it was more likely she was sexist rather than racist. Promoting the son rather than the daughter is common with individuals who have internalized sexism.
Of course, it’s fully possible that she’s awful in more than one way–sexism and racism are hardly incongruent.
But I think there’s plenty of clear evidence of racism in the things we’ve seen portrayed in the strip. The way she discusses Marcie makes it clear that race-bias is part of her worldview, so at that point, it becomes pretty clear that Sal’s right about it also factoring into their relationship.
I mean it’s been pretty explicitly indicated and stated in-comic that Linda is racist. Sal pointed it out to Walky who, upon reflection, now agrees with that interpretation.
And while Sal’s assumption could be mistaken, there have been enough context clues/microaggressions to suggest she isn’t. Also it just wouldn’t make sense narratively for Willis to plant that kind of red herring, make readers think this is an important story about racism, and then go “just kidding she’s actually sexist!”
Autogatos
Though I do agree it’s entirely possible it’s both! It seems rare for someone who expresses some kind of bigotry to *only* be bigoted about one single group. Like ants, if you see signs of one kind of bigotry, odds are a few more are lurking nearby!
She’s never going to be as bad because I frankly don’t think she’s got attempted murder and supervillain costumes in her, but most parents that suck don’t either so she can still feel pretty awful
If we’re measuring harm by how physically damaged their children are, Sal’s got permanent damage to her hand and Marcie can’t speak anymore.
Thag Simmons
I think how directly you caused that harm is a pretty important thing to consider. Linda managed to badly mess up both of her kids, but in an ‘evil parents’ scale she falls well short of trying to murder people.
Autogatos
Yeah, while I do not know what the experience of being a biracial kid with a racist parent is like, just reflecting on whether I’d rather have an ableist/sexist parent as a disabled woman or a parent who orchestrates a kidnapping/tries to *kill* me to “save” me from myself, if I were forced to choose one of those two, I’d definitely prefer the ableist/sexist parent.
It would still be awful and damaging obviously, but Blaine and Ross are on a whole extra level of trauma-inducing (plus bonus splash zone trauma inflicted on everyone around their kids!). ?
Laura
I never quite understood why Sal or Walky didn’t (or couldn’t) ask Billie to help with Marcie’s surgery? Seems Billie’s family had the money, and even at that age, she might have been able to work her parents for it.
Thag Simmons
It’s uh, probably not a coincidence that the Billingsworth parents have never shown up even in flashback.
I’m so jealous you have becky!! I’m gonna shoot my shot, before changing this email i was Ruth… come on joyce, becky, or dina!! or Carla cuz trans girls are always awesome even when they’re insufferable trolls with a heart
Casi
OH GOD NO! Danny reminds me way too much of the man i killed to become who i am today.
BBCC
Yeaaaaaahhhhh, I’m guessing the only thing her dad would do is call immigration.
GreyICE
Oh my god I’d forgotten that strip. Sal’s face…
Kyrik Michalowski
Walky probably didn’t care enough at the time, and if Sal had asked Billie/Jennifer I imagine that Linda would have found out about it. She already took Sal’s money so she couldn’t help, I imagine she would have been upset that Sal was trying to “waste someone else’s money on someone of no value.”
thejeff
Sal probably got some 20s out of Jennifer for it, but not directly from her parents.
She may not be as bad as those two, but that’s a very low bar to clear. She wanted to get Amber kicked out of school because her father kidnapped her baby boy, despite the fact that he also kidnapped her and the whole purpose for doing so was to force her out of school so he did not have to pay for her to attend said college.
That’s right, she wanted her son’s kidnapper to get his way. The kicker was that was the girl that Walky was more or less dating at the time.
Oh my god. This is not the microaggression I was anticipating, Linda zeroing in on the white girl as being David’s significant other, but in retrospect, boy is it not surprising.
Ugh.
The sick feeling in my stomach is not ENTIRELY from the pound of carrot jerky I just ate.
(Everyone… SLICE your carrots before dehydrating them, or they turn into chewing gum!)
That part about “it definitely being” Joyce makes me think Linda did see who Walky was really whispering to but wants him to pretend otherwise to please her.
417 thoughts on “Dozen”
Ana Chronistic
good job darting for the whitest person there, Mother Racist McRaceface
Ana Chronistic
Joyce: *hurls backpack at Linda, screams bloody murder*
Kyrik Michalowski
I mean, isn’t Joyce the /only/ white female that Walky could be whispering to, and is in the immediate vicinity?
Decidedly Orthogonal
Yes. With 3 choices, and the *obvious* one being the person who responded to Walky’s whisper to run, Linda the Racist chose the only white girl there.
Marvelman
I’m not entirely convinced of the racist part, but I am admittedly an extreme skeptic about nearly everything. I mean… it’s probably true, but all we have to go on is Sal’s extremely biased account of her childhood, and Linda did marry a black man so… I’m curious to hear what Linda has to say for herself.
not someone else
Why is it biased? Like… just because it’s her own opinion of her own life?
Marvelman
That’s exactly what I’m saying. Even the most fair-minded person has her biases, and Sal isn’t exactly fair-minded. I just get the feeling there is more to Sal’s childhood than Sal is willing or able to see. Her mom may not be the super-villain she imagines – only a flawed and imperfect person like everybody else. But, I may be wrong.
Bedovian
You’d be surprised how many racist people marry black people. Racism takes more forms than hurling slurs and actively preaching hate. It’s oftentimes far more subtle.
Enkrod
Just look at Ginny Thomas for example.
Bubbletea
Linda is probably definitely not racist in her own view of herself. She is, after all, fine with black people as long as they fit into the box she has assigned them. That box is informed by colorism, sexism, ableism, and respectability politics. And she isn’t a horrible person! On a surface level encounter she probably comes across as just FINE. It is just when you are around her longer that the more corrosive elements of her prejudices seep out.
Autogatos
Exactly. You’ve got your outright “I hate these people and don’t want them anywhere near me” bigots, but bigotry can also come in other, less blatantly obvious (to others outside the group) forms.
In fact I’d argue the most common forms of bigotry are the more subtle ones because they’re much more insidious. They’re easier to overlook and more tolerable to society which allows those kinds of views to gain a foothold and spread.
One super common type is the condescending/paternalistic variety where the person would never consider themselves bigoted because they (according to them) certainly don’t think *untrue* negative things about said group and have “black/disabled/female/gay/etc” friends! Their bigotry tends to take the form of “affectionate” superiority. They will tolerate or even befriend/marry/adopt members of the marginalized group, but still look down on the group as a whole, and may consider themselves a Really Good Person for “elevating” members of that group by associating with/“helping” them.
Some good examples of this type of bigotry are: white saviorism, “disability parents” (parents of disabled or ND kids who are ironically often ableist despite viewing themselves as disability advocates), the whole “love the sinner, hate the sin” thing (Christians who swear they don’t hate you, they’re just trying to save you because they care! They’re judging your entire identity as Wrong out of love!), and the entire incel movement (men who put women up on a pedestal, but in a super objectifying/dehumanizing way, while simultaneously being incredibly hostile towards them).
They often will view select members of the group as better than the rest because they have “overcome” the group’s perceived inferiorities or are the “right kind” of that type of person. Often then”right kind” is a marginalized person who experiences internalized or lateral bigotry and does their best to conform to the standards of the privileged or hide/downplay their own identity while looking down on those who don’t, basically tolerating or even agreeing with the bigotry towards their own group.
There’s something of a symbiotic relationship between paternalistic bigots and marginalized people with internalized bigotry. The latter gains a tiny taste of privilege by gaining some approval from the bigots in power (though never as much as the privileged group and it comes at the expense of other marginalized people) while the former gets to point to that person as an example of why they’re not actually bigoted/why their bigotry is correct
(Leading to classics such as: “I can’t be racist, I have a black friend/husband/daughter!” “well my disabled friend said it’s okay to accuse people of faking if they don’t look disabled” “my gay friend agrees with me that gay people should be more subtle in public” “my wife doesn’t like feminism and agrees that women are no longer oppressed and just complain too much”)
or even use a loved one’s marginalization as a shield or to get attention/victimize themselves (such as abled parents with a disabled child or white parents with a non-white child who use their kid as a prop while centering themselves/their struggles or painting themselves the savior)
Linda may not be the extremely obvious, mustache twirling, “purify society” kind of racist, but she is most likely the other type of racist, and probably considers her husband the “right kind” of black man because he manages to avoid matching certain stereotypes/manages to be the “ideal minority”. We haven’t got a lot of insight into Charles yet but it’s probably a safe assumption that he holds at least some internalized racism, based on his comment about Sal’s hair, and the fact that he either agrees with or at least tolerates Linda’s treatment of Sal and comments about Marcie (since he never seems to object to it).
I imagine Linda likely holds Charles (and their kids) to an excessively high standard and Charles and Walky (at least as far as she knows) have managed to meet her expectations, while Sal hasn’t. In her mind, her attitude towards Sal isn’t racism (and she’d likely be extremely offended by the suggestion that it is)* to her, it’s probably a resentment that she feels Sal has squandered/doesn’t appreciate the “opportunities” she’s been given (via her proximity to Linda’s whiteness and her dad’s efforts to be a model minority). In Linda’s mind, every mistake Sal makes is her carelessly taking that “gift” for granted and confirming negative racial stereotypes.
*Obviously it IS racism, just explaining how someone like Linda would probably see themselves and the mental gymnastics involved in a racist marrying a black person.
(Omg sorry this got so long, sometimes I type too much in an effort to explain things thoroughly)
Zero
Her mother stole money with the express purpose of preventing a child from receiving medical care after being violently attacked.
Jason
A non-white, heavily-implied-to-be-undocumented child. Just, you know. To add to the metaphorical moustache-twirling your point is about.
But it’s okay because she took it from her own child! /s
Shadow Dreamer
…I’ve missed SOMETHING, anyone have a link for context?
Zygorth
Zygorth
Here you go https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/01-flyin-to-the-red/injury/
asp55
The specific moment:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/01-flyin-to-the-red/influences/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/01-flyin-to-the-red/losses/
Alaric
She may simply, on a gut level, not think of her husband as “Black”. There are indeed racists who have exceptions for individual Black people who are kind of “honorary white people” to them.
khn0
“Black skin, white mask”
StClair
“one of the good ones”
RoyanRannedos
Look into Dunbar’s Number for an interesting insight to this conundrum. Robin Dunbar is an anthropologist who noticed a pattern in medieval villages, factory workers, and any other group of humans: you can only closely know between 150 and 300 people. All the rest get categorized under biases.
To closely know someone means you’re current with their life and they’re current with your life. So I might be current with details of a celebrity’s life, but they aren’t close because they have no clue who I am. Those medieval villages averaged around 200 people, the theory goes, because once you have enough for two groups of 150, there’s the strong likelihood of forming an us-vs-them mentality and having one group vote themselves off the island. Taken to the extreme, you end up with groups like Joyce’s former congregation or the 1% whose position insulates them from getting accurate views of other people.
Long intro, but Walky’s Mom is obviously close with her husband. She knows him, and he knows her. But that’s not enough to change the pattern of “White people good, Black people uncertain if not dangerous” drilled into her brain during a racist upbringing.
Mark
See also “monkeysphere”. Every(?) primate species has such a number.
BBCC
And as we all know, it’s impossible to marry someone you’re bigoted against. Which is why misogynists never have wives!
And this isn’t aimed at you specifically, but it’s getting weird how many people in the comments are trying really hard to see Linda as anything but racist again. I’m seeing a lot more ‘It’s sexism/Sal’s just the older twin/It’s Sal’s behaviour/Sal’s misunderstanding/Walky’s just more ‘manageable’/etc.’ than was the case a few years ago.
Marvelman
Whoops! I accidentally flagged your post. Sorry! It was a mistake. I meant to hit “reply”. Anyways, these are all good points.
Thag Simmons
I’m worried I come across as apologetic when I talk about her, I think I have a slightly more charitable take on her than most, but even the most charitable take possible with her with is still a really unpleasant person who’s been a bad parent to both her children and was unquestionably racist towards her daughter’s best friend.
Mark
I think some of us are working to keep judgment suspended until we have enough facts (as opposed to emotionally-laden reports of things we haven’t seen) to make a precise judgment rather than a sweeping approximate one. What particular species of horrible person, if you will, so that we can despise that which is despicable and endorse that which is endorsable. Nobody is 100% bad.
BBCC
That may well be, but then I wonder what kind of ‘facts’ they’re waiting for and, on a narrative level, why they think it’d be a good idea for the answer to be ‘actually the racism is all in the black woman’s head and it’s a big misunderstanding’.
Mark
If I’m gonna destroy the underpinnings of someone’s worldview, I need to understand the superstructure in detail so I know where to place the charges, or I mayn’t cut the right members and the structure won’t collapse. Good enough?
BBCC
I get that and I can respect wanting to know what specific ‘flavour’ of awful you’re dealing with, but yeah, the reluctance to have racism as a key part of that superstructure and insisting it must actually be something else is grating. Especially when that would result in, as Willis put it, a storyline where it turns out the racism is in the black woman’s head all along.
Autogatos
Yeah, it’s important to remember that as fiction, there are ways to telegraph to the readers what conclusions we are supposed to draw.
As someone with progressive views, Willis is unlikely to be writing a story where a black woman’s perceived experience of racism is actually all in her head. Because that would be a pretty awful message given how often marginalized people are told they’re overreacting/reading too much into things when they try to point out micro aggressions and other forms of bigotry.
And as others have said, it’s generally good practice, even IRL when you don’t have all the facts, to not repeatedly insist the marginalized person may be mistaken. My policy if I’m not sure is to avoid commenting on the situation as the last thing a victim of bigotry needs is more people telling them they might be wrong about what they’ve experienced.
And while it’s not a real human being told they’re wrong about what they experienced here, the constant repeating of that sentiment even about a fictional character’s experiences echoes all the many times victims of bigotry experience that kind of doubt or gaslighting IRL.
thejeff
I don’t think the “Misogynists have wives” is really a good analogy. Sexism is all about women properly fitting into their “proper” role as sex objects, wives or mothers. Misogynists want wives, but they want them properly controlled and limited.
There’s no real parallel there for racists marrying. If there’s any kind of a parallel, it would be more like a racist having black servants – as was so common back in the day.
zee
The fetishization and objectification of black men by white women is a massive thing though. I don’t think I’d go as far as to say it’s the same, society is still patriarchal etc etc but the point still stands that just because you marry someone doesn’t mean you don’t dehumanize them. My theory? Linda thinks Charles is “one of the good ones”, he’s not even black i mean not really. He’s half white himself, he’s different from those uncivilized brutes. All that plus probably a little classic racist fetishization. And a sense of ownership given they have a sort of “yes dear…” “Go ask your mother” type of relationship
All subconscious of course. Because Linda’s good people, of course she’d never think of her dear husband like that
thejeff
All good points. It’s just that specific analogy I don’t like precisely because for sexism has so long been precisely about dehumanizing women and marrying them.
BBCC
It’s not a perfect analogy, but the point is it is possible to marry someone you’re bigoted against. If it doesn’t work for you, swap it for homophobic women with gay friends, ableist assholes with disabled partners, etc.
Autogatos
I dunno, while obviously no one type of bigotry is precisely the same as another, and individual scenarios may manifest in different ways, I think it’s a pretty reasonable analogy. And I say this as a woman.
All forms of bigotry have some element of feeling that members of that group have a “proper place” (a place that is in some way inferior to the person of privilege). Racists still want people of other races to behave in certain ways, fill certain roles, “know their place in society”, etc. whether that place is “not a member of society at all” or “part of society but a less important/less respected part than me” or “part of society as long as they conform to my precise expectations of who they should be/how they should look or act.”
So I guess I don’t really get the objection to the analogy. Like BBCC said, swap in any other group, ultimately the point is having affection for someone doesn’t mean you can’t judge them unfairly or have bigoted feelings about a marginalized group they are part of, even if the exact way the dynamic manifests isn’t identical.
Kindra
I would argue that it doesn’t even necessarily matter if Sal is right or not that racism made her the unfavorite. Whether or not that was the initial cause, the effect was still the same. Walky got preferential treatment and Sal got constantly treated as not good enough.
(Personally, I suspect it was a combo of subconscious racial bias + sexism that Sal got hit with. And Linda would probably only ever be able to realize the sexism, if she did a WHOLE lot of soul-searching.)
not alex
Well that was eye-rolling.
Stu
She may have an issue with dark-skinned women specifically – also, there was a VERY boundary-crossing MadTV skit called “Inside Looking Out”, in which Jordan Peele played a black man in a relationship with an EXTREMELY racist white woman (played by Nicole Parker).
SeanR
You can overcome a bias. I’m not saying you can become unbaised, although that is also true. You can, conditionally, overcome a bias, on a case-by-case basis. It happens all the time.
vulcanodon
David Walkerton came out whiter
thejeff
The “run” may have started out as a whisper, but by the time he repeats it and Sarah responds, it’s pretty openly out there.
Kind of impressive of Walky to tell his friends to run, right in front of his parents.
Stu
Eh, they’d take it as the traditional “Our boy is just worried we’ll embarrass him in front of his little friends!”
Bluesnake463
I always kind of thought it was more likely she was sexist rather than racist. Promoting the son rather than the daughter is common with individuals who have internalized sexism.
Freemage
Of course, it’s fully possible that she’s awful in more than one way–sexism and racism are hardly incongruent.
But I think there’s plenty of clear evidence of racism in the things we’ve seen portrayed in the strip. The way she discusses Marcie makes it clear that race-bias is part of her worldview, so at that point, it becomes pretty clear that Sal’s right about it also factoring into their relationship.
MoreWLessG
Por que no los dos?
Autogatos
I mean it’s been pretty explicitly indicated and stated in-comic that Linda is racist. Sal pointed it out to Walky who, upon reflection, now agrees with that interpretation.
And while Sal’s assumption could be mistaken, there have been enough context clues/microaggressions to suggest she isn’t. Also it just wouldn’t make sense narratively for Willis to plant that kind of red herring, make readers think this is an important story about racism, and then go “just kidding she’s actually sexist!”
Autogatos
Though I do agree it’s entirely possible it’s both! It seems rare for someone who expresses some kind of bigotry to *only* be bigoted about one single group. Like ants, if you see signs of one kind of bigotry, odds are a few more are lurking nearby!
Doctor_Who
Linda is not technically as bad a parent as Blaine and Ross, but by god is she working hard on narrowing that gap.
Thag Simmons
She’s never going to be as bad because I frankly don’t think she’s got attempted murder and supervillain costumes in her, but most parents that suck don’t either so she can still feel pretty awful
Schpoonman
If we’re measuring harm by how physically damaged their children are, Sal’s got permanent damage to her hand and Marcie can’t speak anymore.
Thag Simmons
I think how directly you caused that harm is a pretty important thing to consider. Linda managed to badly mess up both of her kids, but in an ‘evil parents’ scale she falls well short of trying to murder people.
Autogatos
Yeah, while I do not know what the experience of being a biracial kid with a racist parent is like, just reflecting on whether I’d rather have an ableist/sexist parent as a disabled woman or a parent who orchestrates a kidnapping/tries to *kill* me to “save” me from myself, if I were forced to choose one of those two, I’d definitely prefer the ableist/sexist parent.
It would still be awful and damaging obviously, but Blaine and Ross are on a whole extra level of trauma-inducing (plus bonus splash zone trauma inflicted on everyone around their kids!). ?
Laura
I never quite understood why Sal or Walky didn’t (or couldn’t) ask Billie to help with Marcie’s surgery? Seems Billie’s family had the money, and even at that age, she might have been able to work her parents for it.
Thag Simmons
It’s uh, probably not a coincidence that the Billingsworth parents have never shown up even in flashback.
elfroyalty
i get the feeling wouldn’t have been very beneficial to marcie or her family
elfroyalty
oh HELL yeah baby i’ll take a becky icon
Casi
I’m so jealous you have becky!! I’m gonna shoot my shot, before changing this email i was Ruth… come on joyce, becky, or dina!! or Carla cuz trans girls are always awesome even when they’re insufferable trolls with a heart
Casi
OH GOD NO! Danny reminds me way too much of the man i killed to become who i am today.
BBCC
Yeaaaaaahhhhh, I’m guessing the only thing her dad would do is call immigration.
GreyICE
Oh my god I’d forgotten that strip. Sal’s face…
Kyrik Michalowski
Walky probably didn’t care enough at the time, and if Sal had asked Billie/Jennifer I imagine that Linda would have found out about it. She already took Sal’s money so she couldn’t help, I imagine she would have been upset that Sal was trying to “waste someone else’s money on someone of no value.”
thejeff
Sal probably got some 20s out of Jennifer for it, but not directly from her parents.
Dr. T
She may not be as bad as those two, but that’s a very low bar to clear. She wanted to get Amber kicked out of school because her father kidnapped her baby boy, despite the fact that he also kidnapped her and the whole purpose for doing so was to force her out of school so he did not have to pay for her to attend said college.
That’s right, she wanted her son’s kidnapper to get his way. The kicker was that was the girl that Walky was more or less dating at the time.
Mollyscribbles
She also never paid the bail for a murder, which is an example of just how hard you’d have to work to be the worst parent in the strip.
Not that it’ll stop her from trying.
Matt
Parental Abuse Georgs (inexplicably plural) were an outlier adn should not be counted.
Illjwamh
The real question is, where does she rank compared to Carol?
Needfuldoer
They’re different varieties of horrible, but to a roughly equal degree.
Linda tends to be less overt when other people are around. She’s insidious.
DarkoNeko
RUUUN
DailyBrad
Oh my god. This is not the microaggression I was anticipating, Linda zeroing in on the white girl as being David’s significant other, but in retrospect, boy is it not surprising.
Laura
Ugh.
The sick feeling in my stomach is not ENTIRELY from the pound of carrot jerky I just ate.
(Everyone… SLICE your carrots before dehydrating them, or they turn into chewing gum!)
Rex Vivat
Where were you with this wisdom, like, a month ago? At least the dog liked it, I guess.
zee
Did. Did you guys dehydrate entire carrots???
Laura
Ayup. At least Rex Vivat had the good sense to share it with a dog! I just swallowed hard and chewed up the WHOLE thing. Ugggghhhh…. so sick….
Archieve
That part about “it definitely being” Joyce makes me think Linda did see who Walky was really whispering to but wants him to pretend otherwise to please her.
Bryy
The “most definitely” didn’t give it away?
Throwatron