Not just hit, hit and made it to at least first base.
This is based on my extensive experience dating women who play sport while having no direct experience myself. I’m more an X-Games girl myself.
danimagoo
Well…yes, but not percentage of pitches. Percentage of at-bats. Then we’d have to define at-bats, because not every plate appearance is an at-bat. And then we’d have to define plate appearance. Baseball is the sport for statistics nerds (like me). There’s a simpler way to understand the idiom, though. Substitute “success rate” for “batting average”. That’s all it means.
Gigafreak
On-Base Percentage, or OBP for short, is probably a more meaningful statistic anyway, to say nothing of OPS
I wonder if the role of head cheerleader meant that Billie needed to familiarize herself with sports terminology so she’d know when the team did something impressive?
Liquid Len
I’m sure, but for (American) football, and maybe basketball? Baseball generally doesn’t have cheerleaders
As an evolution nerd and Stephen Jay Gould stan i have had to learn about baseball and batting averages in particular to be able to read through his book “Full House” which is a fascinating essay studying and comparing both batting averages over the decades and trends in species diversity through geological time. It’s about… um… the philosophy of statistics? The ontology of averages? A plea for distributions? Boy this book is tough to, um, pitch.
it's a great read, especially if you’re a baseball geek =P that section was fairly indulgent (but that’s fine, it’s SJG, he’s allowed <3) and after fastidiously getting the gist i skipped a good bit. i did gather that Joe DiMaggio was a statistical anomaly any way you looked at it?
but the basic argument is simple, yet goes against a really ingrained bias: that we like to look at averages and think they are informative, but that they don't… exist. they're a mathematical artefact, useful in specific situations but really bad at describing many phenomena. they skew our perception and make us draw some bafflingly unearned conclusions, such as the idea that evolution has an innate tendency towards complexity, or larger sizes. a lot of theorizing has actually gone into explaining why this dubious fact may be occurring, when a more literate statistical analysis makes it clear that what evolution predicts is not any sort of special trend but simply an increase in diversity over time, and because most groups of life start small (for trivial reasons), the average size of the species in that group will slowly drift big-wards.
so Gould insists, if we are to understand distributions, we need to give up the fetishization of averages and instead try, quite possibly in the face of hard-wired neural patterns, certainly cultural ones, to look at the history of life in terms of its overall diversity. the figure of the normal distribution (and its parameters of width, tail-length, and hard cut-offs corresponding to physical limits) is what we need to have in mind, not single-figure artifacts like averages and medians.
he makes the case for batting averages and for trends in evolution, but shifting that perception can have profound consequences in many arenas of (the production of) knowledge.
Jim
It’s like that classic quote, I forget who said it, possibly Mark Twain,
“There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.”
thakoru
I think Mark Twain is the most famous person to have said it, but he was quoting someone else.
Is it possible that even though Sal and Wally know how their mom is they also don’t want to admit to themselves how bad it is, and therefor it’s not registering why Lucy would be fourth?
i think it’s in-group out-group stuff. being put in a position to need to apologise for your ingroup (and you always need to apologise for your ingroup) is unpleasant. ‘Mum’s racist and she’ll be shit to you but she’s not that bad, really, you know, she loves us…’. You Have to defend behaviour that isn’t really defensible, you Have to account for like, how you personally maintain a relationship even tho she’s gonna be Like That, and Dad’ll go along with it. you probably don’t HAVE to, but you feel like it. That’s family! That’s OUR horrible ditch witch and her dad-shaped familiar.
Kimi
I love the term “horrible ditch witch and her dad-shaped familiar”.
Tan
Honestly, there’s an easy answer for defending their mom: Don’t. At all. Don’t defend it, don’t apologize for it, don’t excuse it. Lay it out for what it is like an oncologist giving a cancer patient their prognosis. It’s shitty, but it’s here, and here’s how we’re gonna try to deal with it.
The real problem is defending their conclusion when on the surface it’s a “ridiculous” accusation. After all, she’s married to a black guy, and she’s so nice to Walky. “Obviously” it’s something else. That’s fucking exhausting. And Sal already had to go through it with her own brother (and who knows how many other times before with others). Gonna be Walky’s first time.
thejeff
I don’t think either Walky or especially Sal are interested in defending her. As for maintaining a relationship – college and homelessness
Sal knows. She said her mom has always liked Walky better because he came out whiter. Can Lucy pull her head out of the clouds long enough to figure this out? Surely she knows about practical things like colorism and racist bias. Her parents must have given her The Talk.
DailyBrad
Probably. I mean, black kids unfortunately don’t get to remain ignorant to that reality for long, and Lucy’s steeped in a lot of pop culture that has at least passingly acknowledged the subject of bigotry.
I think the biggest issue she’s got here is that she probably is predisposed to wanting to give the Walkertons the benefit of the doubt, and they are unfortunately not wholly deserving of that grace.
Miri
Also that bit where Mrs Walkerton married Mr Walkerton and had adorable kids with him! It’s the sort of thing that’s going to prime Lucy to assume that she’s not racist. Somebody suggested that maybe she fell accidentally pregnant and felt that she HAD to marry him; it doesn’t explain why she was seeing/sleeping with him in the first place (proving she wasn’t racist to somebody she wanted to impress?) but it is a hard thing to explain otherwise and also helps to explain the vitriol Sal felt from pretty much the moment she emerged “Blacker”…
Joy
I mean some people think that black people are hot but don’t respect them. Or like, “the good ones” happen to include her husband. Etc.
Imo it might be more something along of a ‘form your own conclusions first from your interactions before we tell you things that’ll distort your perceptions and might cause you go read into things that aren’t exactly the way they might seem.’
Walky has a point, Billie’s being insensitive about it. Billie has a point, there’s no malice toward anyone present in what she’s saying. Everyone has a point. Joyce, you have a point, too, where is that Asher guy? Walky needs someone to match with.
I think Linda’s racism is subconscious she probably thinks “I can’t be racist I have a husband and children who are people of colour” But she subconsciously engages in racist behavoir towards Sal and Lucy.
Made a comment this afternoon on yesterday’s comment that was probably missed. In response to someone else saying Jenifer had probably heard racial slurs from Linda.
“I slightly disagree. I’m sure she’s heard a shit ton of racially charged microaggressions but I would put money on Linda not using racial slurs because that helps her delude herself into thinking she’s not racist.
She wouldn’t use the N word because that would be racist but she’ll say out loud that the “urban” fashion someone is wearing makes him “look like a thug” and make sure that all her car doors are locked and windows rolled up when driving through a primarily black neighborhood.”
And for now I’m standing by that. Microaggressions and dog whistles seem more her speed than blatant racial slurs.
Oh, she’s literally said the thug thing, like. On page. I can’t remember the exact page but it was way back when Sal was little and Marcie had the accident.
I agree with your assessment. Linda loves to think she’s a good person as much as Carol does.
Linda seems less concerned with being “a good person” and more with being “a good parent” but doesn’t spend a whole lot of time interrogating her own feelings & perceptions.
…
That just gave me a mental image of Linda sleeping with the classic cartoon snoring, honk shu honk shu, but instead of “mimimimimi” it’s just the hard r
Could be! She must have been worried about this terrible secret she was keeping from her mother and now it’s all out there. Her atheism, her hatred of the church, no longer believing her mother is infallible and perfect and always right.
cbwroses
Also, she probably appreciates Joe for his support.
That was a decent couple moment in an unfamiliar, unexpected, and unromantic situation.
Derek
unfortunately Joyce didn’t tell her mother about “her hatred of the church, no longer believing her mother is infallible and perfect and always right.” because they didn’t have a conversation at all, Carol walked away. Joyce’s new hatred of the church was IMPLIED, but given that Carol didn’t accept what was outright stated to her, she’s highly unlikely to think of the further implications about Joyce
McNitz
Still though, even being able to say what you are feeling and not have the world crash down around you, regardless of how much the other person actually accepted the truth of what you said, can be relieving.
I think she is sidelining the whole “I’m homeless and have all this stuff cluttering up my room and my Mom is crazy” line of thought in favor of the “Joe is a wonderful guy who really loves me and supports me!”
This thing about Joyce being homeless keeps coming up from different people. Did I miss the strip where Hank, Joyce’s father, disowned her and forbade her from living in his home that one would assume he has either rented or purchased with the money he makes a a dentist?
Carol may be homeless if she’s crazy enough to have sold the home she got in the divorce without making prior arrangements but Joyce has a whole second parent who presumably found a place to live when his wife got the house in the divorce and there’s currently no reason to believe Joyce isn’t welcome at his place.
MM
Welcome, sure, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t have a whole lot of room for her.
zee
Why not? Don’t you think he’d get a place big enough for the two of them? He knows his ex wife is crazy and that Joyce doesn’t want anything to do with her, and he never seemed like the type of parent to be like “welp you’re no longer my legal responsibility so go figure it out yourself or be homeless idc.”
David M Willis
Joyce is actually negative homeless because both her parents have their own separate apartments, as that’s double the home versus before
That and “I don’t want my many “mom” friends to worry about me so better pretend everything if ok or else they will force me to confront this scary new reality on their terms and not my own without even realising they’re doing it” in which case all I can say is “mood”.
Honestly though, Becky’s gonna freak out & Dorothy will go full helper mode and that sounds super exhausting after just receiving the news yourself…
I agree, she seemed to be matter of fact about it. I didn’t register any approval of Linda, or glee at anyone’s discomfort. It’s just how Linda is, and Lucy deserves to know. It’s not a fun conversation, sure, but that’s not Jennifer’s fault.
Jennifer could be a whole lot nicer about it though. It’s clear she doesn’t like Lucy one tiny bit.
BarerMender
Me either.
Michael Chandra
Yeah she is bashing on the others while deliberately being vague in a hurtful manner herself. If she actually was a semi-decent person, she’d go ‘look, the point is, their mom is racist and she even judges her own kids based on how black they are, so she’s going to hate you and hate Walky for dating you’. Not this whole ‘oh I’m not doing this to be mean’ nonsense while leaving Lucy in the dark. It’s just pretending to be a decent person while still lashing out and hurting people.
AlexaSpuds
Linda is not Jennifer’s family, she’s their’s, they (mostly wally) should be the ones to tell her the truth, because she might not believe it coming from someone outside the family, and also because having an outsider shit talk your family instead of you telling the truth about it is also not very comfortable for others and feels very gossip-y.
Mark
And it’s entirely plausible that Jennifer is doing this to get Sal and Walky to do the straight talk with Lucy, because it would be best and most helpful if it comes from them. She’s doing it somewhat abrasively because she’s Jennifer.
you dont need to be trying to hurt someone to be hurtful. i agree that she wasnt trying to be hurtful (mostly) but she was still horrible in how she went about it.
I’m real confused on where this expectation for Jennifer to be nice to Walky and Lucy comes from? Or why she’s considered rude here. We can’t pretend Walky doesn’t act the same way to her. Maybe Lucy deserved a bit of a gentler conversation but then Walky should be the one warning her instead of Jen. This feels like a double standard.
cbwroses
Oh yes we can, because he doesn’t act the same way.
The issue in difference isn’t rudeness.
It’s hurtfulness.
Walky almost never purposely hurts people, and I can’t think of a moment off the top of my head where he purposely tried to hurt Jennifer.
Jennifer has purposely tried to hurt Walky multiple times during the series.
As for Walky warning Lucy, he has warned her twice now that this lunch will not be cool.
Should he be more upfront about it?
Sure.
But Billy is also not being upfront about it, so she’s not warning Lucy any better while adding the potential hurt to it.
Even Sal, who is the most blunt about this topic, isn’t outright saying it.
None of them want those words spoken into the ether.
Miri
Sal and Jennifer have experienced racial prejudice (for being half-Black and Asian/part-Asian respectively – she seems to identify as being Asian, was at least partially surprised Ruth’s grandfather didn’t target that about her for criticism, but she acknowledges otherwise she’s reasonably white-passing). They know how much it sucks. Acknowledging that somebody who is supposed to be a figure of love and support can cut people down like that is probably kinda painful.
And Walky… Hates confrontation. Is still working on being better at standing up for his sister to his parents. KNOWS his mother’s love is conditional. Finds it hard to talk about emotions… Saying the words aloud to an emoter like Lucy who will react, and be shocked, and then hurt and outraged, and make him actually address how he feels about all this..? Where someone like Dorothy would sense he was out of his comfort zone and step back (then probably journal about it to process her own emotions), I think Lucy would (Joyce-like) obliviously smash through all the barriers he’s put up so he can keep on functioning in the here and now and unwittingly really hurt him. (Some of those barriers might be restricting him and unhealthy long-term, like his dependency on his mother’s approval, but they’re kinda still his to work through in his own time.)
336 thoughts on “Dumpin’”
Ana Chronistic
trading old awkward for new
Clif
The only reason we have for doubting Jennifer’s analysis is that Jennifer is the one making it.
DarkoNeko
Oh no, baseball terminology ! my only weakness
Angel
i suppose you could take out the word ‘batting’ and it’d still be the same?
Mano308gts
Recognizing and being able to use appropriately the miscellaneous sports-based vernacular terms isn’t in my wheelhouse… XD
thakoru
I’m pretty sure batting average is just the percent of pitches to them that a player hits, but honestly I know about as much as you probably.
Skater Girl
Not just hit, hit and made it to at least first base.
This is based on my extensive experience dating women who play sport while having no direct experience myself. I’m more an X-Games girl myself.
danimagoo
Well…yes, but not percentage of pitches. Percentage of at-bats. Then we’d have to define at-bats, because not every plate appearance is an at-bat. And then we’d have to define plate appearance. Baseball is the sport for statistics nerds (like me). There’s a simpler way to understand the idiom, though. Substitute “success rate” for “batting average”. That’s all it means.
Gigafreak
On-Base Percentage, or OBP for short, is probably a more meaningful statistic anyway, to say nothing of OPSI wonder if the role of head cheerleader meant that Billie needed to familiarize herself with sports terminology so she’d know when the team did something impressive?
Liquid Len
I’m sure, but for (American) football, and maybe basketball? Baseball generally doesn’t have cheerleaders
Decidedly Orthogonal
Hot-dogs! Get yer red-hots! Hot-dogs!
milu
As an evolution nerd and Stephen Jay Gould stan i have had to learn about baseball and batting averages in particular to be able to read through his book “Full House” which is a fascinating essay studying and comparing both batting averages over the decades and trends in species diversity through geological time. It’s about… um… the philosophy of statistics? The ontology of averages? A plea for distributions? Boy this book is tough to, um, pitch.
Clif
Nah, you hit a home run.
milu
haha nerddd <3
it's a great read, especially if you’re a baseball geek =P that section was fairly indulgent (but that’s fine, it’s SJG, he’s allowed <3) and after fastidiously getting the gist i skipped a good bit. i did gather that Joe DiMaggio was a statistical anomaly any way you looked at it?
but the basic argument is simple, yet goes against a really ingrained bias: that we like to look at averages and think they are informative, but that they don't… exist. they're a mathematical artefact, useful in specific situations but really bad at describing many phenomena. they skew our perception and make us draw some bafflingly unearned conclusions, such as the idea that evolution has an innate tendency towards complexity, or larger sizes. a lot of theorizing has actually gone into explaining why this dubious fact may be occurring, when a more literate statistical analysis makes it clear that what evolution predicts is not any sort of special trend but simply an increase in diversity over time, and because most groups of life start small (for trivial reasons), the average size of the species in that group will slowly drift big-wards.
so Gould insists, if we are to understand distributions, we need to give up the fetishization of averages and instead try, quite possibly in the face of hard-wired neural patterns, certainly cultural ones, to look at the history of life in terms of its overall diversity. the figure of the normal distribution (and its parameters of width, tail-length, and hard cut-offs corresponding to physical limits) is what we need to have in mind, not single-figure artifacts like averages and medians.
he makes the case for batting averages and for trends in evolution, but shifting that perception can have profound consequences in many arenas of (the production of) knowledge.
Jim
It’s like that classic quote, I forget who said it, possibly Mark Twain,
“There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.”
thakoru
I think Mark Twain is the most famous person to have said it, but he was quoting someone else.
Librain
Ya know, it wasn’t until your comment that I realised they would be talking about baseball.
What with batting averages also being a thing in cricket…
Regalli
I hope someone bothers to DIRECTLY warn Lucy what’s coming.
audkitten
Is it possible that even though Sal and Wally know how their mom is they also don’t want to admit to themselves how bad it is, and therefor it’s not registering why Lucy would be fourth?
Carms
i think it’s in-group out-group stuff. being put in a position to need to apologise for your ingroup (and you always need to apologise for your ingroup) is unpleasant. ‘Mum’s racist and she’ll be shit to you but she’s not that bad, really, you know, she loves us…’. You Have to defend behaviour that isn’t really defensible, you Have to account for like, how you personally maintain a relationship even tho she’s gonna be Like That, and Dad’ll go along with it. you probably don’t HAVE to, but you feel like it. That’s family! That’s OUR horrible ditch witch and her dad-shaped familiar.
Kimi
I love the term “horrible ditch witch and her dad-shaped familiar”.
Tan
Honestly, there’s an easy answer for defending their mom: Don’t. At all. Don’t defend it, don’t apologize for it, don’t excuse it. Lay it out for what it is like an oncologist giving a cancer patient their prognosis. It’s shitty, but it’s here, and here’s how we’re gonna try to deal with it.
The real problem is defending their conclusion when on the surface it’s a “ridiculous” accusation. After all, she’s married to a black guy, and she’s so nice to Walky. “Obviously” it’s something else. That’s fucking exhausting. And Sal already had to go through it with her own brother (and who knows how many other times before with others). Gonna be Walky’s first time.
thejeff
I don’t think either Walky or especially Sal are interested in defending her. As for maintaining a relationship – college and homelessness
Vanessa
Sal knows. She said her mom has always liked Walky better because he came out whiter. Can Lucy pull her head out of the clouds long enough to figure this out? Surely she knows about practical things like colorism and racist bias. Her parents must have given her The Talk.
DailyBrad
Probably. I mean, black kids unfortunately don’t get to remain ignorant to that reality for long, and Lucy’s steeped in a lot of pop culture that has at least passingly acknowledged the subject of bigotry.
I think the biggest issue she’s got here is that she probably is predisposed to wanting to give the Walkertons the benefit of the doubt, and they are unfortunately not wholly deserving of that grace.
Miri
Also that bit where Mrs Walkerton married Mr Walkerton and had adorable kids with him! It’s the sort of thing that’s going to prime Lucy to assume that she’s not racist. Somebody suggested that maybe she fell accidentally pregnant and felt that she HAD to marry him; it doesn’t explain why she was seeing/sleeping with him in the first place (proving she wasn’t racist to somebody she wanted to impress?) but it is a hard thing to explain otherwise and also helps to explain the vitriol Sal felt from pretty much the moment she emerged “Blacker”…
Joy
I mean some people think that black people are hot but don’t respect them. Or like, “the good ones” happen to include her husband. Etc.
Joy
I meant to capitalize Black oops.
Amara
Imo it might be more something along of a ‘form your own conclusions first from your interactions before we tell you things that’ll distort your perceptions and might cause you go read into things that aren’t exactly the way they might seem.’
Joy
I think that Lucy can figure it out from context clues and this is a really delicate subject as is?
Kagimizu
Oh hey, perfect timing.
Now Joyce can trade notes with Sal and Walky regarding terrible parents.
And class. That’s important too.
TemporalShrew
Walky has a point, Billie’s being insensitive about it. Billie has a point, there’s no malice toward anyone present in what she’s saying. Everyone has a point. Joyce, you have a point, too, where is that Asher guy? Walky needs someone to match with.
TemporalShrew
Anyone present *currently*, I should clarify.
NGPZ
Yeah I know what you talkin about Jennifer, Linda such a racist bongo, probably mutters the N-word in her sleep ?
True Survivor
Unlikely, unless her husband has hearing problems. Of course, that may put a whole different kind of strain on the marriage:
“She keeps muttering Tigger in her sleep. That bouncy bastard better hope I never manage to figure out where the 100-acre wood is.”
Laura
Like Moms Mabley’s joke that, when she visited the South, everyone kept comparing her to Roy Rogers’s horse: “Hey, Trigger!”
UrsulaDavina
I think Linda’s racism is subconscious she probably thinks “I can’t be racist I have a husband and children who are people of colour” But she subconsciously engages in racist behavoir towards Sal and Lucy.
Proxiehunter
Made a comment this afternoon on yesterday’s comment that was probably missed. In response to someone else saying Jenifer had probably heard racial slurs from Linda.
“I slightly disagree. I’m sure she’s heard a shit ton of racially charged microaggressions but I would put money on Linda not using racial slurs because that helps her delude herself into thinking she’s not racist.
She wouldn’t use the N word because that would be racist but she’ll say out loud that the “urban” fashion someone is wearing makes him “look like a thug” and make sure that all her car doors are locked and windows rolled up when driving through a primarily black neighborhood.”
And for now I’m standing by that. Microaggressions and dog whistles seem more her speed than blatant racial slurs.
Dante
Oh, she’s literally said the thug thing, like. On page. I can’t remember the exact page but it was way back when Sal was little and Marcie had the accident.
I agree with your assessment. Linda loves to think she’s a good person as much as Carol does.
asp55
Well… “Hoodlum” but yeah, right vibe.
Linda seems less concerned with being “a good person” and more with being “a good parent” but doesn’t spend a whole lot of time interrogating her own feelings & perceptions.
Charles also has his own set of similar biases (”You[Sal] look so pretty when it’s [your hair] long and straight”)
zee
…
That just gave me a mental image of Linda sleeping with the classic cartoon snoring, honk shu honk shu, but instead of “mimimimimi” it’s just the hard r
Laura
Joyce seems remarkably cheery.
True Survivor
Yeah, that is strange. Maybe she’s just happy she told her mother the truth without it turning into a giant fight?
Vanessa
Could be! She must have been worried about this terrible secret she was keeping from her mother and now it’s all out there. Her atheism, her hatred of the church, no longer believing her mother is infallible and perfect and always right.
cbwroses
Also, she probably appreciates Joe for his support.
That was a decent couple moment in an unfamiliar, unexpected, and unromantic situation.
Derek
unfortunately Joyce didn’t tell her mother about “her hatred of the church, no longer believing her mother is infallible and perfect and always right.” because they didn’t have a conversation at all, Carol walked away. Joyce’s new hatred of the church was IMPLIED, but given that Carol didn’t accept what was outright stated to her, she’s highly unlikely to think of the further implications about Joyce
McNitz
Still though, even being able to say what you are feeling and not have the world crash down around you, regardless of how much the other person actually accepted the truth of what you said, can be relieving.
Dara
Maybe she’s happy mom is outta there?
Slartibeast Button, BIA
I think she is sidelining the whole “I’m homeless and have all this stuff cluttering up my room and my Mom is crazy” line of thought in favor of the “Joe is a wonderful guy who really loves me and supports me!”
Proxiehunter
This thing about Joyce being homeless keeps coming up from different people. Did I miss the strip where Hank, Joyce’s father, disowned her and forbade her from living in his home that one would assume he has either rented or purchased with the money he makes a a dentist?
Carol may be homeless if she’s crazy enough to have sold the home she got in the divorce without making prior arrangements but Joyce has a whole second parent who presumably found a place to live when his wife got the house in the divorce and there’s currently no reason to believe Joyce isn’t welcome at his place.
MM
Welcome, sure, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t have a whole lot of room for her.
zee
Why not? Don’t you think he’d get a place big enough for the two of them? He knows his ex wife is crazy and that Joyce doesn’t want anything to do with her, and he never seemed like the type of parent to be like “welp you’re no longer my legal responsibility so go figure it out yourself or be homeless idc.”
David M Willis
Joyce is actually negative homeless because both her parents have their own separate apartments, as that’s double the home versus before
Psi baka onna
That and “I don’t want my many “mom” friends to worry about me so better pretend everything if ok or else they will force me to confront this scary new reality on their terms and not my own without even realising they’re doing it” in which case all I can say is “mood”.
Honestly though, Becky’s gonna freak out & Dorothy will go full helper mode and that sounds super exhausting after just receiving the news yourself…
Laura
Either that or she’s putting on a show to deflect any concerns.
Laura
Gaah, this avatar! It makes everything I say come out smarmy!
NGPZ
change the capitalization of your email to get a new avatar here! 😉
Laura
Thanks!
Taffy
She’s putting in a show to deflect any concerns, ladies.
Pylgrim
Crappy mom left, hot bf stayed.
Sirksome
I think Jen gotta lot of hate yesterday for no reason. I like this strip cause she clearly wasn’t being intentionally hurtful.
pope suburban
I agree, she seemed to be matter of fact about it. I didn’t register any approval of Linda, or glee at anyone’s discomfort. It’s just how Linda is, and Lucy deserves to know. It’s not a fun conversation, sure, but that’s not Jennifer’s fault.
Vanessa
Jennifer could be a whole lot nicer about it though. It’s clear she doesn’t like Lucy one tiny bit.
BarerMender
Me either.
Michael Chandra
Yeah she is bashing on the others while deliberately being vague in a hurtful manner herself. If she actually was a semi-decent person, she’d go ‘look, the point is, their mom is racist and she even judges her own kids based on how black they are, so she’s going to hate you and hate Walky for dating you’. Not this whole ‘oh I’m not doing this to be mean’ nonsense while leaving Lucy in the dark. It’s just pretending to be a decent person while still lashing out and hurting people.
AlexaSpuds
Linda is not Jennifer’s family, she’s their’s, they (mostly wally) should be the ones to tell her the truth, because she might not believe it coming from someone outside the family, and also because having an outsider shit talk your family instead of you telling the truth about it is also not very comfortable for others and feels very gossip-y.
Mark
And it’s entirely plausible that Jennifer is doing this to get Sal and Walky to do the straight talk with Lucy, because it would be best and most helpful if it comes from them. She’s doing it somewhat abrasively because she’s Jennifer.
Essex
you dont need to be trying to hurt someone to be hurtful. i agree that she wasnt trying to be hurtful (mostly) but she was still horrible in how she went about it.
Sirksome
I’m real confused on where this expectation for Jennifer to be nice to Walky and Lucy comes from? Or why she’s considered rude here. We can’t pretend Walky doesn’t act the same way to her. Maybe Lucy deserved a bit of a gentler conversation but then Walky should be the one warning her instead of Jen. This feels like a double standard.
cbwroses
Oh yes we can, because he doesn’t act the same way.
The issue in difference isn’t rudeness.
It’s hurtfulness.
Walky almost never purposely hurts people, and I can’t think of a moment off the top of my head where he purposely tried to hurt Jennifer.
Jennifer has purposely tried to hurt Walky multiple times during the series.
As for Walky warning Lucy, he has warned her twice now that this lunch will not be cool.
Should he be more upfront about it?
Sure.
But Billy is also not being upfront about it, so she’s not warning Lucy any better while adding the potential hurt to it.
Even Sal, who is the most blunt about this topic, isn’t outright saying it.
None of them want those words spoken into the ether.
Miri
Sal and Jennifer have experienced racial prejudice (for being half-Black and Asian/part-Asian respectively – she seems to identify as being Asian, was at least partially surprised Ruth’s grandfather didn’t target that about her for criticism, but she acknowledges otherwise she’s reasonably white-passing). They know how much it sucks. Acknowledging that somebody who is supposed to be a figure of love and support can cut people down like that is probably kinda painful.
And Walky… Hates confrontation. Is still working on being better at standing up for his sister to his parents. KNOWS his mother’s love is conditional. Finds it hard to talk about emotions… Saying the words aloud to an emoter like Lucy who will react, and be shocked, and then hurt and outraged, and make him actually address how he feels about all this..? Where someone like Dorothy would sense he was out of his comfort zone and step back (then probably journal about it to process her own emotions), I think Lucy would (Joyce-like) obliviously smash through all the barriers he’s put up so he can keep on functioning in the here and now and unwittingly really hurt him. (Some of those barriers might be restricting him and unhealthy long-term, like his dependency on his mother’s approval, but they’re kinda still his to work through in his own time.)