Joyce just abandoned rleigious fundamentalism and became a social darwinist. She will then appear dressed as Tanya Degurechaff and shoot people that don’t follow her capitalist ideals.
Nah, because if you kill people when they’re at their best then that’s their best chance to get into heaven. Sure you’ll be sinning by committing murder but it’s a martyrdom. In the eternal view, you’d be doing them a favour by keeping them out of hell.
thejeff
Baptise babies to cleanse them of sin and then murder them to prevent them from sinning themselves. It’s the perfect system.
Makes for a short lived religion though.
StClair
A lot of religions – those that last and grow enough to be called that, rather than “cults” – have very specific prohibitions to keep people from taking their other beliefs to the logical conclusion(s). Otherwise, like the aforementioned cults or critters with lethal mutations, they’d die out within a generation.
Except Pokemon is apparently bad evolution. I.. have no idea what that means.
Khyrin
keeping it short: When the phenotype(observable characteristics) of a creature’s species changes over many, many years? that’s Evolution.
When a SPECIFC creature’s phenotype changes in the course of that individual’s lifetime that’s metamorphosis.
No, that’s why people who understand science think Pokemon’s ‘evolution’ is wrong.
Evangelicals think it’s wrong because it’s one type of creature changing into another. Like actual evolution, just on the wrong time scale, but either one is bad to the science deniers.
GreyICE
What if every time a Pokemon evolves, it actually dies and is replaced by its offspring? They only think it’s the old Pokemon, but actually it’s a child, and the old Pokemon died. So trainers are shortening their Pokemon’s lives in a desperate attempt to gain martial power, and their Pokemon comply out of love for their trainers, even though they know they’re racing towards their own death.
Then it’d be evolution!
SuperZero
That was essentially canon in the cartoon, at least briefly. Jessie and James were trying to evolve their Ekans and Koffing so they could keep up with the protagonists, but Meowth did some research on evolution and read that bit out loud to them while they all looked increasingly horrified.
In tears, they promised Ekans and Koffing they’d never try to get them to evolve again. Then they were happy, so they evolved. And nobody ever mentioned it again, as far as I know.
Roborat
I always thought the Nurse Joy clones were creepy.
Needfuldoer
Following the “individual Pokemon go through metamorphosis” model, and having never played the games, I will just assume they liquefy themselves inside of the Pokeballs, like caterpillars inside a chrysalis.
Devin
Maybe I’ve been playing Pokemon for too long, but some evolutions are…not improvements. Of course that’s probably not what Joyce actually meant, but it’s what registered in my mind first, because that’s my context.
Most fundies almost by necessity acknowledge some evolution exists – it’s just typically phrased as “microevolution,” evolution that doesn’t “cross the boundaries between species” (whatever that means). This is contrasted with “macroevolution,” which is generally described as something like “atheists think turn fish into monkeys.”
It’s a very simplistic view of how the world works. They’d probably tell you cross-breeding different strains of apples to produce new kinds of apples, or breeding only the wooliest sheep in a herd to make generations of even woolier sheep “makes sense” because “they’re still apples and sheep”. One thing drastically evolving into something completely different by gradual change over an immense amount of time time isn’t something they can personally observe, therefore it can’t happen.
I started to say that Joyce clearly has issues, what with her sudden desire to murder people. But then it occurred to me that flinging stones inside my glass abode would be unwise.
Also Hank you should just be happy the conversation was adult for any length of time, I know people who seemingly can’t have an adult conversation without dying.
There’s a problem: you can only punish people after they commit a crime, or when they are going to commit a crime. Killing them before they become evil would make you evil.
You could kill literally everyone and everything in the universe (including yourself) and leave it as an empty husk. Neither good nor evil. But that’s kinda a wash.
clif
You are going to have to explain to me why killing everyone is a wash. There seem to be some assumptions there that I’m not following.
SuperZero
That sounds less like “could” and “neither good nor evil” and more like “theoretical most evil possible.”
Downside: the plan succeeds, you can pinpoint the exact moment people are at their best selves and start the process of murder, then find your own zenith was the moment before you thought of the plan
I thought it was going to be a song about murdering people who’ve hit their peak, and was really looking forward to hearing how a song from Pokemon could be interpreted that way.
196 thoughts on “Evolving”
Ana Chronistic
WOW that went some places
At least it’s not an ADULT conversation ifyouknowhutimean I guess???
LiterallyJustSomeGuy
“What’s your favorite thing to shout as your partner approaches their zenith? What I like to do is–“
a/snow/mous/e
oh god xD
clif
Great Caesar’s Ghost!
butts
you mean like the one about the bear with the great tits?
clif
Is that similar to the beer with the bear tits?
Ana Chronistic
And remember how fast Sarah wanted to change the subject!
Chris
It was almost an adult discussion. Then it became a college discussion.
clif
I don’t know. Joyce’s logic sounds impeccable to me.
Ray Radlein
Certainly there were Crusaders who employed similar logic from time to time
Felix
Crusaders? Do you mean the Inquisition?
John Lennerton
Nobody expects the Inquisition!
HoneyThistle
….shadows fall…and hope has fled…
Roborat
What were their weapons again?
Rob S
No, Joyce, no! Don’t go there!
abysswatcher1993
Joyce just abandoned rleigious fundamentalism and became a social darwinist. She will then appear dressed as Tanya Degurechaff and shoot people that don’t follow her capitalist ideals.
NinjaMaid
Nah, because if you kill people when they’re at their best then that’s their best chance to get into heaven. Sure you’ll be sinning by committing murder but it’s a martyrdom. In the eternal view, you’d be doing them a favour by keeping them out of hell.
thejeff
Baptise babies to cleanse them of sin and then murder them to prevent them from sinning themselves. It’s the perfect system.
Makes for a short lived religion though.
StClair
A lot of religions – those that last and grow enough to be called that, rather than “cults” – have very specific prohibitions to keep people from taking their other beliefs to the logical conclusion(s). Otherwise, like the aforementioned cults or critters with lethal mutations, they’d die out within a generation.
Deanatay
Becky and Joyce drop out of college to create the city in Logan’s Run.
Roborat
Yea, but they only did it so they could shout “renew” and zap people with lasers.
Dave
Countdown to Joyce having a mental shock moment over her father using the word “evolving”
Probably not NOW but when she’s reflecting on this later
butts
…i’m pretty sure fundies know that the word has other meanings?
Rectilinear Propagation
I think the Pokemon comment means she doesn’t have a problem with the word “evolving” when it just means change in general.
SuperZero
Except Pokemon is apparently bad evolution. I.. have no idea what that means.
Khyrin
keeping it short: When the phenotype(observable characteristics) of a creature’s species changes over many, many years? that’s Evolution.
When a SPECIFC creature’s phenotype changes in the course of that individual’s lifetime that’s metamorphosis.
Kamino Neko
No, that’s why people who understand science think Pokemon’s ‘evolution’ is wrong.
Evangelicals think it’s wrong because it’s one type of creature changing into another. Like actual evolution, just on the wrong time scale, but either one is bad to the science deniers.
GreyICE
What if every time a Pokemon evolves, it actually dies and is replaced by its offspring? They only think it’s the old Pokemon, but actually it’s a child, and the old Pokemon died. So trainers are shortening their Pokemon’s lives in a desperate attempt to gain martial power, and their Pokemon comply out of love for their trainers, even though they know they’re racing towards their own death.
Then it’d be evolution!
SuperZero
That was essentially canon in the cartoon, at least briefly. Jessie and James were trying to evolve their Ekans and Koffing so they could keep up with the protagonists, but Meowth did some research on evolution and read that bit out loud to them while they all looked increasingly horrified.
In tears, they promised Ekans and Koffing they’d never try to get them to evolve again. Then they were happy, so they evolved. And nobody ever mentioned it again, as far as I know.
Roborat
I always thought the Nurse Joy clones were creepy.
Needfuldoer
Following the “individual Pokemon go through metamorphosis” model, and having never played the games, I will just assume they liquefy themselves inside of the Pokeballs, like caterpillars inside a chrysalis.
Devin
Maybe I’ve been playing Pokemon for too long, but some evolutions are…not improvements. Of course that’s probably not what Joyce actually meant, but it’s what registered in my mind first, because that’s my context.
SuperZero
Don’t all evolutions cause stat boosts?
Monarch Bee
Most fundies almost by necessity acknowledge some evolution exists – it’s just typically phrased as “microevolution,” evolution that doesn’t “cross the boundaries between species” (whatever that means). This is contrasted with “macroevolution,” which is generally described as something like “atheists think turn fish into monkeys.”
Needfuldoer
It’s a very simplistic view of how the world works. They’d probably tell you cross-breeding different strains of apples to produce new kinds of apples, or breeding only the wooliest sheep in a herd to make generations of even woolier sheep “makes sense” because “they’re still apples and sheep”. One thing drastically evolving into something completely different by gradual change over an immense amount of time time isn’t something they can personally observe, therefore it can’t happen.
SuperZero
Okay, but why does that make pokemon evolution–which has nothing to do with either–bad?
(Also, that came up in the comic before, when Dina was confused that Joyce acknowledged evolution by getting an annual flu shot.)
Needfuldoer
Maybe it’s the drastic change the Pokemon go through when they evolve?
Maybe it’s because someone they trust said it’s bad, therefore it must be bad? (Trotting out good old doublethink in the process.)
Sirksome
It’s still a pretty adult conversation to me.
Reltzik
Nah, this is a college-age discussion. Equal parts philosophy and irreverent bullshitting.
DSL
Yes — as the participants age away from the college years, the philosophy diminishes.
clif
I cannot argue with this.
Agemegos
Too true to be funny.
When people reach their conversational nadir the irrelevant bullshitting is all about their grandchildren. Bozhe moi!
BigDogLittleCat
Upvote!
LiterallyJustSomeGuy
Last-panel Joyce is SO CREEPY!
Great job, Willis! Keep up the good work!
mrnoidea
Someone totally needs to make that face their profile pic.
Not me, though. I like my angry deer pic.
Kensou
I’d trade in my Jason icon for that Joyce, honestly.
clif
Hey, I just enjoy the way Hank is looking back at us as he makes his comment in the last panel.
Kyrik Michalowski
I started to say that Joyce clearly has issues, what with her sudden desire to murder people. But then it occurred to me that flinging stones inside my glass abode would be unwise.
Also Hank you should just be happy the conversation was adult for any length of time, I know people who seemingly can’t have an adult conversation without dying.
Robbie
Like Mike, possibly.
drs
Remember the Anti-Joyce.
BBCC
I can see no possible downside with this plan, and I unreservedly endorse it.
Kyrik Michalowski
What is the worst that could happen, right?
abysswatcher1993
There’s a problem: you can only punish people after they commit a crime, or when they are going to commit a crime. Killing them before they become evil would make you evil.
Some1
You could kill literally everyone and everything in the universe (including yourself) and leave it as an empty husk. Neither good nor evil. But that’s kinda a wash.
clif
You are going to have to explain to me why killing everyone is a wash. There seem to be some assumptions there that I’m not following.
SuperZero
That sounds less like “could” and “neither good nor evil” and more like “theoretical most evil possible.”
SuperZero
Killing people after they commit a crime is murder. Killing people before they commit a crime is often self-defense.
So, uh, no.
Agemegos
Nice logic!
SuperZero
Killing people after they commit a crime can also be “execution,” but that has many other requirements as well.
BBCC
I mean, sure, if you wanna be all realistic and logical about it.
Party pooper. 😛
Bogeywoman
Downside: the plan succeeds, you can pinpoint the exact moment people are at their best selves and start the process of murder, then find your own zenith was the moment before you thought of the plan
BBCC
That’s only a downside if you’re insufficiently committed. 😛
Kernanator
Having adult conversations uses up too much battery for you to maintain for long.
HeinousActsZX
They actually did have a pokemon song about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3ykA1ZUC1Y
Rectilinear Propagation
Huh. I was honestly expecting to be rick rolled.
Cass
I thought it was going to be a song about murdering people who’ve hit their peak, and was really looking forward to hearing how a song from Pokemon could be interpreted that way.
timemonkey
It’s funny because Blaine was just murdered
clif
It’s fair to say he had reached his zenith.
Needfuldoer
He was incapacitated in a hospital bed, unable to harm anyone but himself.
That was the best he could do.
Roborat
Well, as long as it wasn’t the least he could do, because that would make it a completely different comic.