Evolutionist is a term I don’t care much for personally, we don’t have special terms for people who accept germ theory, or gravitational theory. Probably because it lends too much legitimacy to creationism by making evolution sound more like a belief system instead of solid scientific theory.
jiynx
the hilarious part is what she said is what the creationists/ID folks claim is ‘critical thinking’
Yeah, good point. But, in these times when acceptance of science in our culture is oft challenged by religion, I feel that identification of “sides,” evolutionist or creationist, is necessary. But, yeah, I wish I didn’t have to use the term “evolutionist.”
IndigoRei
I guess it’s just something we’re gonna have to deal with.
It amuses me to think that Joyce is making religion look bad by essentially calling God lazy.
Undrave
How about we just call the sides ‘Creationists’ and ‘normal folks’? Cause even the Vatican think creationism is wacko and you gotta wake up pretty early to out-fundy the Vatican.
Ziaheart
Because there are people who believe in both? Like, the animals were created with the ability to adapt or, rather, have their genes mutate and have nature select the gene combination most likely to survive? Where do these people fit in? Normal Creationist? Creationormalists?
Undrave
That’s still accepting the principles of evolution and not actively challenging it’s place in the class room or pretending it’s just random guesswork. The only real different here would be what was the initial ‘spark’ o f life, wether it was just random chemical occurance or a divine hand. In the end the principles of evolution remains accepted as truth.
insomniac
The idea that God created the universe with conditions that would lead to the rise of life and the evolutionary process is “theistic evolution,” or just “evolution,” since evolutionary theory has no position on God one way or another.
Supahewok
I doubt you’ll ever see this, but I wanted to say thanks for giving me the term that has described my own beliefs for years. I’ve known what I believe and could articulate that belief, I’ve just never heard a term before now that described it. So thanks.
Who says webcomics (and by extension, their comments) can’t teach you anything important?
Legasher
Maybe because some “normal” people do actually believe in creation. Just because some need to beat people over the head with it doesn’t mean everybody does. Just like there are some “evolutionists” who don’t feel the need to call those with a belief system stupid. Almost every culture has an “origin” story. Some of them are out there, perhaps even Christianity’s. Genesis has an account of the beginning. An origin story. Some Christians and Jews believe it’s literal, some metaphorical and some of us really are weird and believe both 🙂 . I get to choose what I believe just as you do, and allow my upbringing, experience, biases and orneriness to affect that decision as much as you do. Many creationists are perfectly normal, and perfectly reasonable – even if you’d never believe we are rational as well.
drs
…I don’t “choose what to believe”. What I believe is compelled by my understanding of the facts, my reasoning ability filtered through whatever cognitive biases I haven’t identified and compensated for.
icepyrox
Knowing myself, and as a friend of someone who believes this is what he does, but has also made the mistake of taking up the bottle as of late (making his memory more unreliable than he gives himself credit for), I can attest that this is exactly what everyone else does. Whether those biases are towards “scientists” (or more likely “professionals” who have their own biases and have no evidence of their own except the reputation of who they consider to be “scientists” or “professionals”), or your parents who taught you all about this world, or some mix because you managed to recognize that all these people are biased. The bias is there, whether you acknowledge them or don’t. They may even be there in a different capacity and you incorrectly compensate for them, but they are there.
Somebody
Anecdotal evidence isn’t good proof. And why do you have the word scientists in quotes? Just what exactly are trying to imply here?
They can’t be right all the time, but that isn’t the point of the scientific method. People who went to school and perform experiments are better evidence than the Bible or a minister. I identify as Christian and I still say this.
Legasher
I guess I get what you are saying, but I’d also say you just said the same thing. I can get that feeling of not being able to deny something as truth even if you don’t want to. In that way, it feels like you are not choosing what to believe. But at the same time, that “filtered through whatever cognitive biases I haven’t identified and compensated for” is where I’d put that. And you also choose who you are willing to listen to. When I “converted” from what I was to what I am now (Christian to a Jewish/Christian, not a huge leap, but one that was not popular with many of my friends and family and one that has a very different take on certain ideas that many Christians are very protective of), I made a list of three things that I was not willing to compromise on; the three things most central to the way I functioned and processed the world around me. I was willing to listen to what the man who taught me said and consider anything (not agree to anything, just weigh as objectively as I could) that he said that did not directly contradict those three things. What I’m trying to say is that sometimes you cannot overcome bias, but other times, you can consciously label the biases you do have to filter the content you allow to contradict the biases you may not have identified. Another example might simply be saying that I would never listen to or read a book by Richard Dawkins, and I’m pretty sure most here would not purposely sit down with a Billy Graham or Rebbe Schneerson lecture. That’s a conscious bias that cuts off certain input that might also contradict any number of unconscious biases.
Somebody
To be fair, it’s good to question things and most people probably do. But to deny a fundamental study is just going too far.
Brian
“I get to choose what I believe just as you do”
1) Belief is when you take something to be true when you don’t have enough evidence to take a position on it scientifically. Evolution is not a belief position, because it is the best explanation for what we know happens.
2) While you have a right to your beliefs, you don’t have the right to try and attempt to put them on the same footing as generally accepted scientific theory (and the modern synthesis of ToE and genetics is one of the best evidentially supported theories in science). If I had a belief that we all stayed on the earth due to it being made out of molasses, I would be allowed to hold it no matter what, but would not be allowed teach it as science without demonstrating an evidential basis. Teaching that god created the world c.6,000 years ago and everything on it is unchanging is what creationists want to teach, and they have the same evidential basis as my “molasses earth” hypothesis, i.e. the evidence categorically shows it to be wrong.
Arkadi
This.
Creativerealms
Even many creationists think it’s crazy, what Joyce is talking about is “Young Earth Creationism” Who believe the Earth is only six to eight thousand years old and all creatures were created at the same time. there are Old Earth Creationists who are more adaptable, who believe that the Six days are actually long periods of time and not actually 24 hour days. And that God created creatures to be able to adapt and evolve. They are more open minded creationists. of course Joyce is clearly a young Earth believer.
Crumplepunch
That seems an odd position. I assume you don’t go around calling yourself a “round-earther” or a “heliocentricist”, so why use “evolutionist”?
The first time I ever heard the term was when I was being shouted at by a particularly objectionable creationist. He used it as an insult, because that’s what it is. It’s a pejorative term to create the illusion of division in science.
Jesus DeSaad
Religion also disregards math, but you don’t go splitting people into religious and mathists. Just stop labeling yourself as evolutionist, you’re only feeding the paranoia by picking an arbitrary side like that.
Coru
Oooh, oooh, oooh! Am I allowed to claim religious exemption for calc 2 if I say it goes against my beliefs?!
I’ve found creating “sides” and polarizing to extremes on every issue does a disservice to both sides and just makes everyone sound like either moronic zealots or nihilist robots. I encourage you to paint the world with a little less black/white, and a few more tints of grey.
Armchair Warrior
I’m partial to painting my worldview in blues and pinks, personally.
Monochrome worldviews are *so* last-millennium.
The only sides in the evolution “conflict” that I’m aware of are people who look at the world around them and try to understand what they see and people who don’t because it’s scary. It’s an issue with nearly as many sides as a line.
Debs
I like to tell my students I am a scientist. I believe in physical evidence, and while faith has a place, it cannot deny that fossils exist.
Andiemus
I’m an alchemist, myself. I’m disappointed in the lack of four-element theory in our schools.
Undrave
Four Element Theory is crack! the universe can’t function with the Element of Ether! Five Element Theory is the way to go.
TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!
Valdrax
Ether!? But the Michelson-Morley experiment proved there was no such thing. Clearly you meant Void for the fifth element. It’s only science.
Ah, but with the molecular model most of everything is simply patches of nothing held together with atoms.
George
Bah! The fifth element is metal! Typical Eurocentric alchemists, dismissing Eastern advances.
Mr. Random
Your avatar changed to precisely the right picture at PRECISELY the right moment. I applaud your luck.
*CLEP CLEP CLEP*
ender1200
No, he is just using the japanese count instead of the chinese one.
LWS3
I thought Leeloo was the 5th Element?
Regalli
Heresy! Everyone knows the fifth element is Surprise!
Somebody
Metal is part of Earth…technically plants should be as well (unless maybe you make Life an element). Wood also has nothing to do with wind–that’s just loony.
But really elements aren’t any of those things according to the periodic table.
Crumplepunch
Obviously you have never heard of the real fifth element, phlogiston!
Revil Fox
This argument is stupid, ridiculous, and stupid. The Fifth Element is Milla Jovovich and everybody knows that.
Nee Hou
“I’m an alchemist, myself. I’m disappointed in the lack of four-element theory in our schools.”
It still is, but we call it the four states of matter:
Air = gas
water = liguid
earth = solid
fire = plasma
TJ Baltimore
Very nice . . . but it still doesn’t take into account quark-gluon plasma, Bose-Einstein condensates, neutron degenerate matter, superfluids, and several other non-classical states. (Sorry for the nerdgasm.)
Dranorter
Heh, we generally tell kids there are three or four states of matter though.
I think only several parts of Christianity who think Dinosaurs never existed or there’s no evolution. A lot of religions out there actually agreed that evolution exist. It’s just that it’s getting more and more complicated with the existence of internet where both sides can argue all day long.
How can we be sure if it’s impossible to piss Dina off if we haven’t seen DoA Dina in a situation that held the possibility of her becoming pissed off?
581 thoughts on “Feathers”
Vivvav
Oh, I’m looking forward to this.
otusasio451
As an avid evolutionist, I concur. ‘Course I’m still a religious person, so…nah, I’m rootin’ for Dina.
Shade
Evolutionist is a term I don’t care much for personally, we don’t have special terms for people who accept germ theory, or gravitational theory. Probably because it lends too much legitimacy to creationism by making evolution sound more like a belief system instead of solid scientific theory.
jiynx
the hilarious part is what she said is what the creationists/ID folks claim is ‘critical thinking’
Gentlebeing Rancor
Agreed
otusasio451
Yeah, good point. But, in these times when acceptance of science in our culture is oft challenged by religion, I feel that identification of “sides,” evolutionist or creationist, is necessary. But, yeah, I wish I didn’t have to use the term “evolutionist.”
IndigoRei
I guess it’s just something we’re gonna have to deal with.
It amuses me to think that Joyce is making religion look bad by essentially calling God lazy.
Undrave
How about we just call the sides ‘Creationists’ and ‘normal folks’? Cause even the Vatican think creationism is wacko and you gotta wake up pretty early to out-fundy the Vatican.
Ziaheart
Because there are people who believe in both? Like, the animals were created with the ability to adapt or, rather, have their genes mutate and have nature select the gene combination most likely to survive? Where do these people fit in? Normal Creationist? Creationormalists?
Undrave
That’s still accepting the principles of evolution and not actively challenging it’s place in the class room or pretending it’s just random guesswork. The only real different here would be what was the initial ‘spark’ o f life, wether it was just random chemical occurance or a divine hand. In the end the principles of evolution remains accepted as truth.
insomniac
The idea that God created the universe with conditions that would lead to the rise of life and the evolutionary process is “theistic evolution,” or just “evolution,” since evolutionary theory has no position on God one way or another.
Supahewok
I doubt you’ll ever see this, but I wanted to say thanks for giving me the term that has described my own beliefs for years. I’ve known what I believe and could articulate that belief, I’ve just never heard a term before now that described it. So thanks.
Who says webcomics (and by extension, their comments) can’t teach you anything important?
Legasher
Maybe because some “normal” people do actually believe in creation. Just because some need to beat people over the head with it doesn’t mean everybody does. Just like there are some “evolutionists” who don’t feel the need to call those with a belief system stupid. Almost every culture has an “origin” story. Some of them are out there, perhaps even Christianity’s. Genesis has an account of the beginning. An origin story. Some Christians and Jews believe it’s literal, some metaphorical and some of us really are weird and believe both 🙂 . I get to choose what I believe just as you do, and allow my upbringing, experience, biases and orneriness to affect that decision as much as you do. Many creationists are perfectly normal, and perfectly reasonable – even if you’d never believe we are rational as well.
drs
…I don’t “choose what to believe”. What I believe is compelled by my understanding of the facts, my reasoning ability filtered through whatever cognitive biases I haven’t identified and compensated for.
icepyrox
Knowing myself, and as a friend of someone who believes this is what he does, but has also made the mistake of taking up the bottle as of late (making his memory more unreliable than he gives himself credit for), I can attest that this is exactly what everyone else does. Whether those biases are towards “scientists” (or more likely “professionals” who have their own biases and have no evidence of their own except the reputation of who they consider to be “scientists” or “professionals”), or your parents who taught you all about this world, or some mix because you managed to recognize that all these people are biased. The bias is there, whether you acknowledge them or don’t. They may even be there in a different capacity and you incorrectly compensate for them, but they are there.
Somebody
Anecdotal evidence isn’t good proof. And why do you have the word scientists in quotes? Just what exactly are trying to imply here?
They can’t be right all the time, but that isn’t the point of the scientific method. People who went to school and perform experiments are better evidence than the Bible or a minister. I identify as Christian and I still say this.
Legasher
I guess I get what you are saying, but I’d also say you just said the same thing. I can get that feeling of not being able to deny something as truth even if you don’t want to. In that way, it feels like you are not choosing what to believe. But at the same time, that “filtered through whatever cognitive biases I haven’t identified and compensated for” is where I’d put that. And you also choose who you are willing to listen to. When I “converted” from what I was to what I am now (Christian to a Jewish/Christian, not a huge leap, but one that was not popular with many of my friends and family and one that has a very different take on certain ideas that many Christians are very protective of), I made a list of three things that I was not willing to compromise on; the three things most central to the way I functioned and processed the world around me. I was willing to listen to what the man who taught me said and consider anything (not agree to anything, just weigh as objectively as I could) that he said that did not directly contradict those three things. What I’m trying to say is that sometimes you cannot overcome bias, but other times, you can consciously label the biases you do have to filter the content you allow to contradict the biases you may not have identified. Another example might simply be saying that I would never listen to or read a book by Richard Dawkins, and I’m pretty sure most here would not purposely sit down with a Billy Graham or Rebbe Schneerson lecture. That’s a conscious bias that cuts off certain input that might also contradict any number of unconscious biases.
Somebody
To be fair, it’s good to question things and most people probably do. But to deny a fundamental study is just going too far.
Brian
“I get to choose what I believe just as you do”
1) Belief is when you take something to be true when you don’t have enough evidence to take a position on it scientifically. Evolution is not a belief position, because it is the best explanation for what we know happens.
2) While you have a right to your beliefs, you don’t have the right to try and attempt to put them on the same footing as generally accepted scientific theory (and the modern synthesis of ToE and genetics is one of the best evidentially supported theories in science). If I had a belief that we all stayed on the earth due to it being made out of molasses, I would be allowed to hold it no matter what, but would not be allowed teach it as science without demonstrating an evidential basis. Teaching that god created the world c.6,000 years ago and everything on it is unchanging is what creationists want to teach, and they have the same evidential basis as my “molasses earth” hypothesis, i.e. the evidence categorically shows it to be wrong.
Arkadi
This.
Creativerealms
Even many creationists think it’s crazy, what Joyce is talking about is “Young Earth Creationism” Who believe the Earth is only six to eight thousand years old and all creatures were created at the same time. there are Old Earth Creationists who are more adaptable, who believe that the Six days are actually long periods of time and not actually 24 hour days. And that God created creatures to be able to adapt and evolve. They are more open minded creationists. of course Joyce is clearly a young Earth believer.
Crumplepunch
That seems an odd position. I assume you don’t go around calling yourself a “round-earther” or a “heliocentricist”, so why use “evolutionist”?
The first time I ever heard the term was when I was being shouted at by a particularly objectionable creationist. He used it as an insult, because that’s what it is. It’s a pejorative term to create the illusion of division in science.
Jesus DeSaad
Religion also disregards math, but you don’t go splitting people into religious and mathists. Just stop labeling yourself as evolutionist, you’re only feeding the paranoia by picking an arbitrary side like that.
Coru
Oooh, oooh, oooh! Am I allowed to claim religious exemption for calc 2 if I say it goes against my beliefs?!
brumagem
I’ve found creating “sides” and polarizing to extremes on every issue does a disservice to both sides and just makes everyone sound like either moronic zealots or nihilist robots. I encourage you to paint the world with a little less black/white, and a few more tints of grey.
Armchair Warrior
I’m partial to painting my worldview in blues and pinks, personally.
Monochrome worldviews are *so* last-millennium.
Jenny Creed
The only sides in the evolution “conflict” that I’m aware of are people who look at the world around them and try to understand what they see and people who don’t because it’s scary. It’s an issue with nearly as many sides as a line.
Debs
I like to tell my students I am a scientist. I believe in physical evidence, and while faith has a place, it cannot deny that fossils exist.
Andiemus
I’m an alchemist, myself. I’m disappointed in the lack of four-element theory in our schools.
Undrave
Four Element Theory is crack! the universe can’t function with the Element of Ether! Five Element Theory is the way to go.
TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!
Valdrax
Ether!? But the Michelson-Morley experiment proved there was no such thing. Clearly you meant Void for the fifth element. It’s only science.
Undrave
Void is not a substance, it’s a lack of element.
bunivasal
Ah, but with the molecular model most of everything is simply patches of nothing held together with atoms.
George
Bah! The fifth element is metal! Typical Eurocentric alchemists, dismissing Eastern advances.
Mr. Random
Your avatar changed to precisely the right picture at PRECISELY the right moment. I applaud your luck.
*CLEP CLEP CLEP*
ender1200
No, he is just using the japanese count instead of the chinese one.
LWS3
I thought Leeloo was the 5th Element?
Regalli
Heresy! Everyone knows the fifth element is Surprise!
Somebody
Metal is part of Earth…technically plants should be as well (unless maybe you make Life an element). Wood also has nothing to do with wind–that’s just loony.
But really elements aren’t any of those things according to the periodic table.
Crumplepunch
Obviously you have never heard of the real fifth element, phlogiston!
Revil Fox
This argument is stupid, ridiculous, and stupid. The Fifth Element is Milla Jovovich and everybody knows that.
Nee Hou
“I’m an alchemist, myself. I’m disappointed in the lack of four-element theory in our schools.”
It still is, but we call it the four states of matter:
Air = gas
water = liguid
earth = solid
fire = plasma
TJ Baltimore
Very nice . . . but it still doesn’t take into account quark-gluon plasma, Bose-Einstein condensates, neutron degenerate matter, superfluids, and several other non-classical states. (Sorry for the nerdgasm.)
Dranorter
Heh, we generally tell kids there are three or four states of matter though.
Somebody
Fire has to get absurdly hot to expel plasma.
Dr.Z
But…
where does Heart fit in?
AckAckAck
I think only several parts of Christianity who think Dinosaurs never existed or there’s no evolution. A lot of religions out there actually agreed that evolution exist. It’s just that it’s getting more and more complicated with the existence of internet where both sides can argue all day long.
Or I prefer to call it, comedy hours.
AngryBamboo
JOYCE!!!! DONT BE TALKIN’ NO FOOKIN’ SHIT ABOUT NO DINOSAURS!!! DINA’LL FOOK YOU UP!!!
Archtus
Your grab fits this comment so well.
David Burnward
I would marry dina in a heartbeat
Furie
Me too. Best pair-up ever.
David Herbert
Is it me or does she just look even more huggable?
Aizat
It’s Dina. She’s always huggable.
Frostbite
I was going to say I wanted to hug her now
Wonder Wig
She looks a lil’ like shark puppy when she’s mad.
qka
Strangle-able.
Pat
Hang on… which she?
George
Dina, I assume, since Joyce is channeling Mike.
Aizat
Joyce just did the impossible: Pissing Dina off.
Aras Pabedinskas
How can we be sure if it’s impossible to piss Dina off if we haven’t seen DoA Dina in a situation that held the possibility of her becoming pissed off?
George
She was called retarded once. That coulda set some people off.
Plasma Mongoose
Joyce subscribes to the ‘Satan-Is-A-Dick’ School of Fossilization.
Saru
Ah yes, Baby Jesus University teaches that one, yes?
Plasma Mongoose
Dammit Joyce, you realise that you are putting cancer research back by 20 years? 😛
Yotomoe
Everyone knows that religion is the cure to all ailments.
Splash of Brown
True story:
http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2463#comic
Kelly
Will she see the invisible next?
spaceinvader42
I think challenging the theory of evolution, especially of dinosaurs, is pretty much the only thing that COULD piss Dina off.
G.G.
Religion does that to people.
Bd
Dang, I had a feeling this might happen, should’ve commented on that last comic. I have a similar reaction internally when i hear that.
thatgirlwiththeglasses
JOYCE HAS ENRAGED THE DINASAUR.
EVERYONE RUN!
Wonder Wig
NOW YOU’VE WOKEN THE DINOSAUR!
Aizat
YOU MESS WITH THE DINOSAUR, YOU GET THE CLAWS.
Aras Pabedinskas
I think you guys mean DINAsaur.
….I’m so sorry.
Buckybone
Meh, top of the thread did it first.
Yotomoe