Translation:
Panel 1: Sometimes people change aspects of their identity – they discover more about themselves or realize they are a whole different thing than what they were.
Panel 2: Becky refuses to consider change because Lesbian for life yo. Makes off-hand suicide joke.
Panel 3: Jennifer makes a “my bisexuality was just a phase” joke. Ruth disapproves.
Panel 4: Becky realises she just accidentally made a suicide joke and feels guilty cause her mom did the suicide.
Panel 5: Jen calls Ruth a sad sack. Ruth doesn’t disagree, but suggests adding additional adjectives.
She might also feel a bit guilty because Ruth and Jennifer had suicide ideations last semester, tying the panels with them into Becky’s feelings about suicide and her mom.
My only quibble with this is that I think Becky didn’t actually realize she was alluding suicide until she remembered who she was in the room with and realized the implications of the phrase “I’d rather die.” It’s the sort of thing that people say offhandedly a lot without really meaning its full implications.
Is it homophobia or does she just hate Ruth? She doesn’t seem to have a problem with other gay people just herself and Ruth specifically.
Alongcameaspider
I think it’s closer to biphobia, she’s on record as saying she doesn’t believe it’s a real thing and that it’s just a phase people go through and I’m not sure if she’s ever recanted that stance
Sirksome
She actually didn’t seem that bothered by Asher kissing Ethan even when he told her point blank. In fact it got her temporarily interested in him again. I think she just has self loathing and regular loathing for her an Ruth that can only express itself by adamantly denying her attraction. Saying it was just a phase makes the relationship less real. Although Jen does need to rectify her past biphobic denialism.
Alongcameaspider
Iirc she also thinks he’s only doing it to make her jealous and not because he’s actually interested in Ethan
Bryy
Yeah, she doesn’t think it’s real.
She’s in for a surprise.
Throwatron
Yeah. Her internalized biphobia is directly protecting her from seeing Asher being interested in someone else for what it is, which is that it is what it literally is. She also has to double down on her internalized biphobia, to cope with losing Ruth. Jennifer is an all-time master at denial and self-deception, so none of this is out of character for her.
thejeff
I think her homo/biphobia is almost entirely internalized. She’s never seemed to have a problem with anyone else being gay or bi, just with herself.
It doesn’t fit the image she wants, which is that’s she’s normal.
I think this is the first hard evidence that she’s reverted to this attitude since the time skip? There were a couple earlier hints, but not this solid.
Proxiehunter
She doesn’t have a problem with people being gay or lesbian. She has however denied that bisexuality is something that exists.
Thank you so much!
I was taking it to mean Becky would never change anything about herself, then apologized to her Mom, and I’m wondering what not changing herself had to do with her Mom D:
Reading Comprehension, yo.
Fuzzy
I vaguely recall theories that Becky’s mom wasn’t straight and that it contributed to her committing suicide.
If Becky suspects that, then saying “I’d rather die than [accept my identity is different than I thought it was]” would feel like even more of a betrayal to her mom.
Allen Alberti
i must have missed that comic, i just thought she was miserable with toedad. can anyone find it for me and post it? i wanna read it inow
clif
People don’t need to have evidence to have theories.
Shadowsnail
Fan hypotheses
Mr D
We don’t even know if she WAS miserable with Toedad. I mean, it is a fair bet, but maybe they were happy with each other and she just had untreated depression or a chemical unbalance. We don’t know because she has, so far, been a non-character and more of a literary device than anythin
Rowen Morland
I initially read panel one more as “because I don’t feel that way and won’t ever change the idea that fluid identities exist is bunk” because I have heard that from people a few times. I was so focused on that that I missed the “I’d rather die” part completely and was flummoxed by panel 4.
(Sometimes its really good to read through the comments and get other takes on panels)
Huh. I’ve never read “i’d rather die than X” as a suicide thing. Not directly anyway.
I’ve always understood it as, to use Becky as an example: A guy puts a gun to her head and demands she stops being a lesbian or she’ll shoot. But she says “Do it you pussy!” rather than give in. Which I guess could be called suicidal, since she’s choosing murder, but … ehhh…..
… Which isn’t that far removed from her actual life experience, honestly.
it’ll def leading to her being a ‘sad drunk’ if not breaking down, assuming amber/amazigirl isn’t stopping it or just both spiralling into her own separate breakdown
Later on everyone will be sat around the XX bottle drinking and talking about how this ‘keg party’ is a defining college experience, Joe will wince everytime.
Jennifer will strole up to the door with a keg and be like, “hey don’t feel like drinking alone, can I join?” She won’t even know about the keg party idea, it’s just her sad Jilly chapter keg.
Rowen Morland
She then proceeds to get so blitzed that Billy steps out of her like Clark Kent in Superman 3 to help her confront her hang ups over Ruth, her sexuality and her narcissism. Billy and Jennifer make out inside an imaginary trash compactor and break out of it together.
But if you’re waiting for the moment Jennifer acknowledges that she is unequivocally bi, you’re underestimating how long internalized bigotries can compel one to equivocate.
Ah, and so through the foil we see the contrast. Joyce is compelled to change if only to seperate herself from her previously established role as “naive weird Christian girl”. Jennifer on the other hand feels no such analoguous need, instead welcoming the notion that her status as alpha bongo in high school automatically somehow transfers over to college as long as she keeps acting the part.
Jennifer is … not an especially great or healthy individual, so I would not put internalizing biphobia past her. However, given that she has also changed her name, friend group, hair, and lovers it is difficult to say with certainty what she is referring to. Of course, all of those options are in some way psychologically tangled up with her relationship with Ruth – so she does seem to be saying being Ruth’s girlfriend was a mistake. However, given the class she is in, it is possible that she is just saying it was a mistake to be with Ruth, specifically, and not for her to like women in general.
I took it as referring to her Billie identity. Thank you for your sober nuance. The world could use more of it.
psychoanalytic
As a dagger aimed at Ruth, it’s effective. But also, Jen/Billie has serious struggles with authenticity and identity. Being bisexual is no more real to her than being a head cheerleader, alpha bongo, It Girl, or suicide pact lesbian. Who she is always fluctuates to fit the room.
The author is autistic so pretty much every character reflects some component of autistic thinking. Billie’s character very clearly represents masking. She’s nerdy, with special interests that she cares deeply about, but conceals everything behind a.veneer of “coolness” and takes pride in her ability to be a social chameleon. She takes every opportunity to reinvent herself for social control because she doesn’t really understand how to be authentically herself in a natural unforced way. Every new costume she tries on is a pretense. This also comes paired with alcohol addiction because it is the only way she can lose the facade without being judged for doing so.
Tl;dr for: Your reading isn’t incorrect, just incomplete 🙂
zee
I mean, she did say bisexuality only exists in porn. So. Whether or not she has internalized biphobia isn’t really a question. I also don’t thinl she’s taking the whole Asher/Ethan thing as seriously as if Ethan were a woman but idk that’s just conjecture. Personally I take this as denying her attraction to women to dunk on Ruth
When Jennifer attempted rapprochement with Ruth, she set her up on a date with a woman. They didn’t hit it off, and Ruth went home with a guy instead. Jennifer took it personally, possibly in more than one way (rejection of olive branch, and Ruth being clearly bisexual).
makes me wonder what other ‘exes’ were like, idk if she really had any other ‘girlfriends’, there was a panel with alice saying she ‘loved her’ but idk if it rly went as far as what ruth did.
altho her being a ‘disaster’ bi is def more of a trainwreck for the both of them than like the comedy kind lol
181 thoughts on “Fluid identities”
Schpoonman
Fuck off, Jennifer.
anon
at least she won’t be invited ‘to do a keg stand’ with them lol
Adj
Thank you for summing up my feelings with amazing precision!
Decidedly Orthogonal
Anyone else seeing the parallels between Ms. Billingsworth and the people we lost to misinformation during covid?
Needfuldoer
This is unnecessarily catty, isn’t it.
She’s learned much from Raidah’s mean-girl club.
Schpoonman
She was like this in the fall, if less direct about it.
GoblinBagsSumo
That’s how she flirts with her, remember? I feel like they’re on their way to getting back whenever they’re being jerks to each other.
clif
This one gets it.
SpaceDorf
Yup sounds like forplay.
NGPZ
*plays “Reconstruct” by Photay on hacked muzak*
Animedingo
im having trouble following this one
Bittersweet
Same. I almost had my chance to comment first but it took me three or four reads to parse it.
IntangibleMatter
Panels 1 and 2 happen sequentially
Panel 4 follows panel 2
Panels 3 and 5 also follow panel 2.
It’s two separate conversations going on.
Rose by Any Other Name
Translation:
Panel 1: Sometimes people change aspects of their identity – they discover more about themselves or realize they are a whole different thing than what they were.
Panel 2: Becky refuses to consider change because Lesbian for life yo. Makes off-hand suicide joke.
Panel 3: Jennifer makes a “my bisexuality was just a phase” joke. Ruth disapproves.
Panel 4: Becky realises she just accidentally made a suicide joke and feels guilty cause her mom did the suicide.
Panel 5: Jen calls Ruth a sad sack. Ruth doesn’t disagree, but suggests adding additional adjectives.
Cholma
*polite applause* Well done! (I had forgotten about Becky’s mom)
Doopyboop
She might also feel a bit guilty because Ruth and Jennifer had suicide ideations last semester, tying the panels with them into Becky’s feelings about suicide and her mom.
RassilonTDavros
My only quibble with this is that I think Becky didn’t actually realize she was alluding suicide until she remembered who she was in the room with and realized the implications of the phrase “I’d rather die.” It’s the sort of thing that people say offhandedly a lot without really meaning its full implications.
ofc it’s probably just me splitting hairs
Thag Simmons
yeah, it’s a good little moment
Bryy
Jennifer’s homophobia has always been Not A Joke.
Sirksome
Is it homophobia or does she just hate Ruth? She doesn’t seem to have a problem with other gay people just herself and Ruth specifically.
Alongcameaspider
I think it’s closer to biphobia, she’s on record as saying she doesn’t believe it’s a real thing and that it’s just a phase people go through and I’m not sure if she’s ever recanted that stance
Sirksome
She actually didn’t seem that bothered by Asher kissing Ethan even when he told her point blank. In fact it got her temporarily interested in him again. I think she just has self loathing and regular loathing for her an Ruth that can only express itself by adamantly denying her attraction. Saying it was just a phase makes the relationship less real. Although Jen does need to rectify her past biphobic denialism.
Alongcameaspider
Iirc she also thinks he’s only doing it to make her jealous and not because he’s actually interested in Ethan
Bryy
Yeah, she doesn’t think it’s real.
She’s in for a surprise.
Throwatron
Yeah. Her internalized biphobia is directly protecting her from seeing Asher being interested in someone else for what it is, which is that it is what it literally is. She also has to double down on her internalized biphobia, to cope with losing Ruth. Jennifer is an all-time master at denial and self-deception, so none of this is out of character for her.
thejeff
I think her homo/biphobia is almost entirely internalized. She’s never seemed to have a problem with anyone else being gay or bi, just with herself.
It doesn’t fit the image she wants, which is that’s she’s normal.
I think this is the first hard evidence that she’s reverted to this attitude since the time skip? There were a couple earlier hints, but not this solid.
Proxiehunter
She doesn’t have a problem with people being gay or lesbian. She has however denied that bisexuality is something that exists.
Kim
Perfect! Thanks ? Was trying to figure out what made her think of her mom <3
Jade
Thank you so much!
I was taking it to mean Becky would never change anything about herself, then apologized to her Mom, and I’m wondering what not changing herself had to do with her Mom D:
Reading Comprehension, yo.
Fuzzy
I vaguely recall theories that Becky’s mom wasn’t straight and that it contributed to her committing suicide.
If Becky suspects that, then saying “I’d rather die than [accept my identity is different than I thought it was]” would feel like even more of a betrayal to her mom.
Allen Alberti
i must have missed that comic, i just thought she was miserable with toedad. can anyone find it for me and post it? i wanna read it inow
clif
People don’t need to have evidence to have theories.
Shadowsnail
Fan hypotheses
Mr D
We don’t even know if she WAS miserable with Toedad. I mean, it is a fair bet, but maybe they were happy with each other and she just had untreated depression or a chemical unbalance. We don’t know because she has, so far, been a non-character and more of a literary device than anythin
Rowen Morland
I initially read panel one more as “because I don’t feel that way and won’t ever change the idea that fluid identities exist is bunk” because I have heard that from people a few times. I was so focused on that that I missed the “I’d rather die” part completely and was flummoxed by panel 4.
(Sometimes its really good to read through the comments and get other takes on panels)
Reltzik
Sounds about right, except I think Jennifer was serious about the phase thing.
thejeff
I think she’s serious. I think she’s also wrong. 🙂
She was also serious about not being bi back when she was fucking Ruth. Or Alice before that.
Arianod
Thanks for the explanation.
Azhrei Vep
Huh. I’ve never read “i’d rather die than X” as a suicide thing. Not directly anyway.
I’ve always understood it as, to use Becky as an example: A guy puts a gun to her head and demands she stops being a lesbian or she’ll shoot. But she says “Do it you pussy!” rather than give in. Which I guess could be called suicidal, since she’s choosing murder, but … ehhh…..
… Which isn’t that far removed from her actual life experience, honestly.
Whirlakitty
Pretty sure Ruth is upset that that adjectives didn’t include “murderous”.
(Great summary btw!)
Bittersweet
Oh no my red flags are going up for the chapter. They were already up, now they’re very very up.
True Survivor
So your the villain behind Communist space program. Tim Curry is a national treasure! How dare you let him leave us?
NGPZ
Nah that’s me ?
Reltzik
But communism has nothing to do with that. It was just a red herring.
Morleuca
then who did I kill?
anon
it’ll def leading to her being a ‘sad drunk’ if not breaking down, assuming amber/amazigirl isn’t stopping it or just both spiralling into her own separate breakdown
Rowen Morland
Later on everyone will be sat around the XX bottle drinking and talking about how this ‘keg party’ is a defining college experience, Joe will wince everytime.
Jennifer will strole up to the door with a keg and be like, “hey don’t feel like drinking alone, can I join?” She won’t even know about the keg party idea, it’s just her sad Jilly chapter keg.
Rowen Morland
She then proceeds to get so blitzed that Billy steps out of her like Clark Kent in Superman 3 to help her confront her hang ups over Ruth, her sexuality and her narcissism. Billy and Jennifer make out inside an imaginary trash compactor and break out of it together.
Morleuca
I love this.
IntangibleMatter
Is it really a DoA strip without someone having an emotional moment in the middle of two other people bickering?
ValdVin
Good job noticing. I believe somewhere in the fine print it’s actually guaranteed in each scene.
Dot
Can’t imagine why her boyfriend left her
Cholma
Turns out *his* heterosexuality was just a phase!
jeffepp
He had a chance to date Sal, and apparently passed on it. If that wasn’t an indication…
GholaHalleck
To be fair, his options were to go to jail or to let Sal go to jail. After that Sal pretty much wasn’t interested.
clif
Disagree. She thought he was too dangerous for anyone but her.
Sirksome
Well at least Becky’s learning something in this class. I don’t know what it was, but it was something.
Dara
Feral Sad Sack?
Did Jennifer fight in the second world war? xD
John Campbell
She was a battlefield reporter during the Martian Invasion?
No, wait, that was Billie.
Nono
Ohhhh heyyy it’s a storyline addressing her internalized biphobia, yay.
NGPZ
I mean… I certainly hope so?
But if you’re waiting for the moment Jennifer acknowledges that she is unequivocally bi, you’re underestimating how long internalized bigotries can compel one to equivocate.
Nono
Oh I’m just not looking forward to the comments sections about this.
NGPZ
I mean it’s in some way a foil of what Joyce went through, with a similar bending and breaking her brain?
It’s always easier in the present moment to double down on what you already know than it is to accept that what you were taught growing up were lies.
Needfuldoer
Joyce enthusiastically embraces change.
Jennifer vehemently denies she needs to change, while gradually changing anyway.
NGPZ
Ah, and so through the foil we see the contrast. Joyce is compelled to change if only to seperate herself from her previously established role as “naive weird Christian girl”. Jennifer on the other hand feels no such analoguous need, instead welcoming the notion that her status as alpha bongo in high school automatically somehow transfers over to college as long as she keeps acting the part.
True Survivor
Jennifer is … not an especially great or healthy individual, so I would not put internalizing biphobia past her. However, given that she has also changed her name, friend group, hair, and lovers it is difficult to say with certainty what she is referring to. Of course, all of those options are in some way psychologically tangled up with her relationship with Ruth – so she does seem to be saying being Ruth’s girlfriend was a mistake. However, given the class she is in, it is possible that she is just saying it was a mistake to be with Ruth, specifically, and not for her to like women in general.
Falcon
I took it as referring to her Billie identity. Thank you for your sober nuance. The world could use more of it.
psychoanalytic
As a dagger aimed at Ruth, it’s effective. But also, Jen/Billie has serious struggles with authenticity and identity. Being bisexual is no more real to her than being a head cheerleader, alpha bongo, It Girl, or suicide pact lesbian. Who she is always fluctuates to fit the room.
The author is autistic so pretty much every character reflects some component of autistic thinking. Billie’s character very clearly represents masking. She’s nerdy, with special interests that she cares deeply about, but conceals everything behind a.veneer of “coolness” and takes pride in her ability to be a social chameleon. She takes every opportunity to reinvent herself for social control because she doesn’t really understand how to be authentically herself in a natural unforced way. Every new costume she tries on is a pretense. This also comes paired with alcohol addiction because it is the only way she can lose the facade without being judged for doing so.
Tl;dr for: Your reading isn’t incorrect, just incomplete 🙂
zee
I mean, she did say bisexuality only exists in porn. So. Whether or not she has internalized biphobia isn’t really a question. I also don’t thinl she’s taking the whole Asher/Ethan thing as seriously as if Ethan were a woman but idk that’s just conjecture. Personally I take this as denying her attraction to women to dunk on Ruth
HueSatLight
When Jennifer attempted rapprochement with Ruth, she set her up on a date with a woman. They didn’t hit it off, and Ruth went home with a guy instead. Jennifer took it personally, possibly in more than one way (rejection of olive branch, and Ruth being clearly bisexual).
anon
makes me wonder what other ‘exes’ were like, idk if she really had any other ‘girlfriends’, there was a panel with alice saying she ‘loved her’ but idk if it rly went as far as what ruth did.
altho her being a ‘disaster’ bi is def more of a trainwreck for the both of them than like the comedy kind lol
thejeff