248

Guzzle
Posted on November 1, 2017 by David M Willis
The winner of this month's Patreon bonus strip poll was Fuckface!  So there's a strip about Fuckface for all Patreon pledgers over at the Dumbing of Age Patreon, just puttin' that out there. Patreon Patreon Patreon.

248 thoughts on “Guzzle”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    “I’M ALLERGIC TO BAD SHIPS”

    “but we’re in a landlocked area”

    “I SAID GBYE”

    1. Jay Eff

      “and what exactly is a ‘bad ship?'”

      “AA-CHOOO!!!”

      1. Carms

        AAACH-YOUUU

      2. TachyonCode

        I’m allergic to the sun, does that count?

        1. Reltzik

          In Egyptian mythology, it does.

  2. CriticalQuit

    Joyce has already taken a five foot step, she has to wait til next turn if she wants to run away!

    1. Doctor_Who

      She should have taken a Withdraw action, then she could move up to double her speed without provoking an Attack of Opportunity.

      1. Arian

        *Like*

      2. TachyonCode

        Of course, if she’d learn to threaten an area before wading in, she might get an AoO for herself…

  3. AnvilPro

    Everything about this continues to be adorable

    1. Pablo360

      Well, except for the whole “I casually suggested to a known fundamentalist (who is friends with my boyfriend and thus is probably someone I’ll interact with more in the future) that they attend my place of worship (for my religion for which I am persecuted) and they appeared to react negatively to that, which bodes poorly for future interactions and may presage something truly disastrous, especially given that her roommate is someone who has literally assaulted me in public” thing

      1. Nobody

        Also just how sad it is Joyce is still scared of non Christians

        1. Fart Captor

          I think that here what she’s scared of is the girlfriend of the boy she just realized she’s seriously been flirting with

        2. thejeff

          There’s a bit of both. Her initial reaction is definitely from the flirting, but Raidah’s also deliberately pushing the fundamentalist buttons.

          Jacob’s other completely innocent or oblivious. He’s just smiling and happy to see Raidah.

        3. Pablo360

          That’s what’s actually happening, yes. But that might not be what Raidah sees.

      2. Unusually Angry Hippie

        Raidah knows she’s socialized, modernized, and most importantly of all, rich enough to avoid casual persecution. I’ve met that kind of muslim, they can be really cool friends and really terrible enemies, because the negatives hold no sway on them while they twist the silver linings to their advantage. Now, Raidah’s law-firm-owning father isn’t quite as influential as the LITERAL ROYALTY that the ones I got to know had in their corner, but it’s definitely a thing.

        Sarah doesn’t scare her, neither does society. Because she’s untouchable. Sarah assualting her was actually humourous, because it gave her a moment of absolute power that she could relish in choosing not to exploit. Raidah’s a smart not-so-good person. No amount of points in the ‘opression olympics’ game will change that.

        1. thejeff

          The silver linings? To being Muslim in the US?

          I mean, sure, being rich would certainly count, but she’s no more “untouchable” than an equally rich Christian. Assuming she’s rich at all, which I don’t think we have much evidence of? There was a comment about her dad suing, but I don’t remember owning a law firm.

        2. Liliet

          No, that’ how Raidah swayed Sarah into hanging out with her way back when. She said about making connections, Sarah asked how many of their families owned law firms and she said ‘all of us’. So yeah, rich and influential.

          Being Muslim doesn’t give her power, though. Being rich does.

        3. Positron

          I think the silver lining is that, because she has social sway from being wealthy that protects her from many of the real consequences of discrimination she gets to make people squirm by deliberately drawing their attention to aspects of her religion that they find uncomfortable. A pretty thin silver lining, mind, and not something that most would enjoy, at least moreso than fair a equitable treatment.

        4. kristiellkay

          “Oppression Olympics”
          -_-
          -_-
          -_-
          A fine example of the sort of phrase that signals to everyone “hey, it’s pointless to try to converse with this person”.

        5. Doki

          ?

          I don’t know about that, I’ve seen a ton of people (who are minorities themselves and care about social justice issues) use the phrase – in a semi-mocking way, but still. My friends and I (also all minorities) use it in a similar way sometimes too, as a HEY LET’S NOT DO THAT thing.

          I mean, if I’m reading your comment right, I know the kind of strawman you’re upset about, and I don’t like it either! But people shitting on each other in contests over who’s more oppressed does happen. I’ve personally seen it happen a lot over the past seven(ish) years I’ve been paying attention to social justice activism. Thankfully the people doing it seem to usually just be insecure little kids and not adults, but… ;~;

        6. BBCC

          Pretty much – Unusually Angry Hippie is misusing the phrase. Oppression Olympics is used to refer to people saying that because one thing is oppressed more (for example, sexual orientation) other sorts of oppression don’t matter. Or who’s more oppressed, as you say.

        7. thejeff

          Well, let’s say anyone using the phrase non-ironically is a least a big red flag.

        8. kristiellkay

          Yes, to clarify, if you use it ironically, fine. But to say the kind of person that uses it un-ironically is a “strawman” to someone whose state senator is Ted Cruz… my eyes hurt from rolling so hard.

        9. Fart Captor

          What you’ve met are “rich, entitled assholes”. It has nothing to do with what kind of Muslim they are.

        10. Indoor Cat

          I dunno, Angry Hippie kind-of has a point. I mean, from the perspective of a bigot who targets Muslim people for harassment, she doesn’t “look” Muslim (aka, she doesn’t wear a hijab–never mind that 43% of American Muslim women don’t!) To that mindset, hijab = fundamentalist = terrorist. No hijab = annoying liberal = not a big deal.

          And intersectionality-wise, being rich can get someone out of a *lot* of potential trouble. I mean, look no further than Caitlyn Jenner’s support of Donald Trump. Why did she say his “great economic policies” outweigh his (and Steve Bannon’s) “negative attitudes on gay and transgender issues”?

          Because she so friggin’ rich she can buy her way out of most of the problems faced by average transgender and LGBT people. She’s either genuinely or willfully clueless of the violence, homelessness, job-discrimination, and lack of physical and mental health care faced by many transgender people, because she can pay for body-guards and mansions and doctors out of her own pocket.

          Now, Raidah is not Caitlin Jenner’s level of clueless. But, she has none of Jacob’s sympathy for our protagonist, because she doesn’t seem to understand how hard it’s been for Joyce to leave the destructive, oppressive fundamentalist church. Raidah doesn’t know (probably?) about the abuse Becky faced in the fundamentalist church, and how much it messed with Joyce’s head. Instead, she equates Jacob’s accepting, non-oppressive church with Joyce’s, because they’re both Christian.

          The subtext is, the Christian majority oppresses the Muslim minorities, so therefore Joyce’s struggle to escape fundamentalism is not important or truly difficult or worth any respect or admiration. [Hence Raidah’s smirky facial expression and sarcastic comment.] The idea is, Muslims are automatically more oppressed than Christians (hence Angry Hippie’s claim than Raidah is playing oppression olympics).

          The thing is, it feels hypocritical for Raidah to look down her nose at Joyce’s hard-won triumph; she’s becoming more accepting and open-minded enough to help Becky, and to trying to leave her old church for good. It feels hypocritical because Raidah solves all her problems with money and threatening lawsuits. As far as the audience knows, Raidah never had to leave an oppressive culture or family, or choose her friend over a lifetime of indoctrination. Instead, her wealthy family is always in her corner, something she used against Sarah when Sarah tried to do right by Dana.

          So…this is why a lot of people dislike Raidah and ship Joyce x Jacob. It’s also why I’m hopeful that the other Muslim characters in the broader cast get more backstory or more to do. One thing I love about this comic is that there are multiple, varied representations of any “type” of person: there are multiple lesbian, gay, bisexual, asexual, and transgender characters. There are multiple Asian characters, multiple black characters, multiple latino characters. There are multiple characters from wealthy families and multiple characters from working-class backgrounds.

          What’s great about this is, if Raidah is a villain, it doesn’t come across with the message that “muslims are villains” if the other Muslim characters are fleshed out. Likewise, just because Ruth and Billie’s relationship is dysfunctional and abusive, it doesn’t equate to “lesbian relationships are abusive,” because Dina and Becky have such a healthy, empowering dynamic.

          But Raidah is definitely a villain and I ship her with nobody.

        11. thejeff

          Yeah, there’s a ghost of a point in there but the “because the negatives hold no sway on them while they twist the silver linings to their advantage” and the oppression olympics pretty much killed it.

          Charitably, UAH had some bad experiences with individual Muslims with powerful ROYAL connections, but there’s no indication Raidah’s family in that league. Likely not in the same class with Carla’s parents or Billie’s for that matter.

        12. Indoor Cat

          @thejeff — hmm. Re-reading UaH’s comment, I see what you mean. There’s not really a silver lining to being a minority; that’s definitely off-base.

      3. Babblegirl

        Uhh, Joyce reacted when Raidah showed up – presumably because of past interactions and Sarah’s stories – not to Raidah suggesting Joyce come to her service at a mosque. Joyce’s face is the polite I feel weird but am trying to not make it awkward and Raidah starts off belittling her by asking Jacob if Joyce behaved at his church and inviting him to make fun of her for finding the “slightly different domination” rituals jarring. She then proceeds to make an offer she knows will almost certainly be turned down, and highlights it by telling her to do the impossible if she wants to say yes. Joyce responds with a bland compliment to leave.

        This is 100% Raidah baiting Joyce and Joyce reacting to Raidah’s Muslim status. I don’t believe she even knows Raidah was Muslim before this interaction. From those eyebrows in the second panel, she looks like she’s up to something, not the face of someone who is acting in good faith.

        1. Babblegirl

          Raidah baiting Joyce *RATHER THAN* Joyce reacting to Raidah’s Muslim status.

          changed my wording and missed some words.

    2. thathat

      And that Joyce is actively trying to break up a relationship

  4. ZerglingOne

    Jacob strikes me as a fairly normal American male. Completely oblivious to attraction.

    1. Doctor_Who

      I imagine he’s a little like John Hamm’s character in 30 Rock (smarter of course). He’s so pretty that he just assumes that most girls (and a fair number of guys) just naturally act flustered and awkward all the time.

      1. JessWitt

        So in due time, Calvin Klein will offer him a modeling side job?

    2. Fart Captor

      That’s something that’s always easier to see when you aren’t one of the people involved

      1. Pablo360

        And when the other person doesn’t have a weird mix of pseudo-flirtatious friendliness and highly-repressed flirtatiousness that makes the two nearly impossible to distinguish.

  5. Mr. Random

    So… Do they see it too?

  6. Disastroid

    Damnit, this had nothing to do with a tiny angry tank guy.

  7. Keulen

    Considering her freak-out at Jacob’s church, I don’t think Joyce is quite ready for a mosque service yet.

    1. Wright

      In much the same way that a five-year-old who is wary of Big Bird probably isn’t ready to watch Alfred Hitchcock’s The Birds yet.

      I mean, I’m pretty sure that there’s no guy jumping in the front of the mosque with guitars, either.

      1. Geneseepaws

        AND no wine, cause yeah-no, and no grape juice a-cause no “Blood of Christ shed for you.” And just not the right Flavor/Texture for Joyce.

    2. Marsh Maryrose

      Joyce was expecting Jacob’s church’s service to be something more-or-less familiar to her. What made her freak out was that it was so much different than what she was expecting.

      If she ever goes to the Friday services at Raidah’s mosque — and I fully expect that she will, if not necessarily “this Friday at 2:00 PM” — she won’t be expecting anything, and so she will probably handle it much better, if only because her guard will remain up at all times.

      1. Sporky

        That’s a good point. Actually, it might come off pretty favorably to whatever horrible ideas that she’s subconsciously imagining. “Hey, there was no human sacrifice, what a relief!”

      2. Liliaeth

        yeah, I think she might actually find it much easier to deal with the service at Raidah’s mosque, exactly because she expects it to be different, and it will surprise her how alike it is in some ways. Whereas she expected Jacob’s service to be like hers, and was shocked by the differences.

        1. thejeff

          Not just expecting to be different, but not expecting it to serve as her church for the week. She’d go, observe it, then go get her grape juice fix on Sunday.

      3. Jason

        Just what I was thinking. Joyce went to Jacob’s church at least partly looking for a church to henceforth be hers. That wouldn’t be the case with a different religion- she would be inherently separated from them, there as an observer rather than a participant.

  8. Shiro

    …Joyce is suddenly VERY aware of her emotions

    Now she’s gonna go run away and get her RDA of Jesus times like a hundred byeeeeeeee

  9. chris73

    So basically Jacob has no idea whats happening whereas Joyce knows something and Raidah, in the space of a couple of seconds, has worked it out almost completely

    1. Kernanator

      Raidah has a bunch of ranks in Sense Motive.

      1. chris73

        Hopefully this will wake Joyce and make her realise exactly what shes doing or, rather, the implications of what what’ll happen to someone else (Raidah)

        1. Leorale

          Seems very likely, the way she snatched her hand away. Time for excessive guilt over chastely flirting with somebody who has been dating a lady for all of two weeks!

    2. Bagge

      I’m pretty sure, yes. It took Billie about half a second to figure it all out, and I think Raidah will do it just as fast.

      And given her elevator pitch here –
      http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/02-everything-youve-ever-wanted/storied/

      – I don’t think she is THAT concerned. If Jacob keeps it friendly with Joyce – no damage done. And if he falls for sweet, native Joyce… well, apparently Radiah can do better. Turns out Radiah DOES give Jacob agency in all this.

      But the whole sordid plot won’t do anything to change her opinion about Sarah. She might be right in this case.

      1. Loki

        * Raidah

        1. Bagge

          Ooops. Thanks

      2. thejeff

        In light of that conversation, how oblivious is Jacob here? If he does pursue these kinds of close friendships with girls with obvious crushes on him, intentionally or not, what does that say about his “storied history of jealous girlfriends”?

        And Raidah may not be that concerned, but that comment was definitely a shot across the bow.

      3. Jason

        The thing is, is Jacob is open and honest, and were to break up with Raidah because he wasn’t happy with their relationship, that completely gets rid of “I can do better”. Because there’s nothing underhanded about that. He’s not screwing her over. Relationships end, for a variety of reasons, and theirs is still very young. Breaking it off if he’s unhappy in some way that he can’t (or doesn’t want to) try to work through is, in my opinion, a sign of greater worth as a potential partner.

        1. thejeff

          If he does and he’s open and honest about that it’s all cool. And if he’s doing it because he’s unhappy with their relationship in some fashion, again, that’s cool.

          But he’s still playing with fire here. Especially if he’s aware of the attraction (his or hers). It’s easy to slip from saying, even to yourself, “We’re just friends, nothing more”, to “oh shit, I’ve fallen for her”. Without ever having planned it or intended it. Then there’s pretty much no way out that doesn’t lead to someone and probably everyone involved getting hurt.

  10. Kyrik

    Hmm, I get the deeling raidah knows exactly what Joyce was up to and possibly that’s why she made the invitation to join her at her mosque. Knowing it would freak Joyce the fuck out, she’s doing better but that’s not a baby step that’s a leap.

    1. Kyrik

      Feeling* I try so hard not to have typos.

    2. Liliet

      “Oh my god she’s jerking away from him and blushing so hard. And she’s so flustered about the Episcopalian church, too! I wonder, if I invite her to a mosque with me, will she spontaneously combust or what?”

  11. Jay Eff

    Next Storyline:

    Joyce actually shows up at the mosque

    1. Zby

      I’m pretty sure that would result in a story full of nothing but Joyce freak-out panels.

      Not that I’d complain about that.

      1. dg

        I think Joyce would handle it well for the reasons articulated above(i.e not expecting what she was already used to) and has probably been told enough weird shit that it’ll seem normaller.
        “OK, is this the satanic warbling…wait that’s it? a few bows and a speech about the importance of kindness to strangers”. In fact, I could see her somewhat liking it.

        1. Pablo360

          I do wonder if she’d freak out if/when she finds out that they consider Jesus the #2 prophet. Like, would that even compute for her?

        2. Jack Spade

          My guess: she laughs. Hard.

        3. Godfather

          As a Muslim who doesn’t particularly enjoy visiting the mosque, i demand to see Ioyce in a Muslim prayer area now. This hilarity WILL happen.

        4. Godfather

          Joyce. Not “ioyce”.

    2. Jamie

      Not consecutively next. Let’s keep our options open.

    3. Marsh Maryrose

      I actually think this is going to happen. Mind you, Willis gonna do what Willis gonna do (or more precisely, what he decided to do three or four months ago), but —

      It would be a growth arc for Joyce and for Raidah, at a minimum. Maybe for Jacob as well? And there have been twitter hints about seeing more Asma. Maybe Nash as well?

      1. Godfather

        YES

        More Asma, PLEASE!

        She’s freaking fantastic.

    4. Bagge

      Personally I hope Becky will show up at the mosque. It would be interesting given that Becky a) is very religious in her own way b) has just an ignorant upbringing as Joyce and c) is chill as a bean. It would be interesting to see her take on it.

      I assume she would check that Joyce doesn’t freak out (given that she is there too), and then a) find someone who doesn’t know she is a lesbian and b) tell her that she is, in fact, a lesbian.

      1. Clif

        Which might go over real well in a mosque.

        1. Bagge

          Let’s hope it’s a hippie-mosque.

        2. Pablo360

          Exactly what you said except without being sarcastic?

        3. Bagge

          Oh, I wasn’t sarcastic at all (well, I DID use Joyce’s nomenclature, which I suppose is A BIT sarcastic), but there are plenty of variants of Islam that are LGBTQ-friendly and I hope Raidah’s mosque belongs to one of them.

        4. Pablo360

          I was replying to Clif, not thee.

        5. Bagge

          Oooops, sorry

        6. Godfather

          I would babe quite in valor of this.

        7. Godfather

          *be quite in favor of this

          Yes, please! Progressive mosque for the win!! 😀

        8. Godfather

          It would go over quite poorly in most mosques. So the sarcasm actually is appropriate

        9. Godfather

          Agreed. To people saying “hey Clif, that’s not nice”, that’s the unfortunate damn truth.

          I’ve sat through way too many sermons about the “dangers of America and its temptations” to hope that someone could freely talk about alternatives to heterosexuality and not be attacked for it.

          Growing up, I was told by older women at the mosque that, after a certain age (puberty), you’re not to talk to guys there. Then when it comes time to date, you’re not supposed to, but you are allowed to marry someone your parents approve of or have recommended you marry.

          No, this isn’t every mosque. It’s the experience I know, though, which is why i don’t like going these days, though apparently things are really changing. But I’ll say you’ll be hard pressed to find a mosque that openly accepts LGBTQIA+ identities, or even has members who’ll tolerate talking about it.

        10. Godfather

          Citation: my whole damn life as a cis female Muslim American feminist.

          Note: I am also quite cranky, so thank you for bearing with me!

        11. Bagge

          +1

      2. Arian

        ROFL

  12. Deathjavu

    “Oh no, the guy I was flirting with actually has a girlfriend!”

    Joyce seems to be developing a sense of self-awareness, between yesterday and today.

  13. Passchendaele

    “Now, *two* whole bottles of Jesus, that’s another story.”

  14. Stephen Bierce

    Shareef don’t like it…
    Rockin’ the Casbah!
    ROCK THE CASBAH!

    1. FacelessDeviant

      Lock the taskbar.

  15. DailyBrad

    I don’t like Raidah, but I would dig if Joyce did check out the Mosque.

  16. Badgermole

    Yes she was a bongo to Dina, but right here? I like Raidah. She’s figured out what was going on but she’s chill and even kind to Joyce. I’m always supportive of people who can practise non-oppressive monogamy.

    1. Shiro

      The only thing I take issue with is asking Jacob how Joyce’s time was, ignoring Joyce standing right there. But like, relatively minor faux pas. Just something that would’ve bothered me in Joyce’s position.

      1. neeks

        Mmmaybe she knows she’d get a polite non-answer from joyce?

        But yeah, it’s not great being talked over as if you aren’t there.

    2. CJ

      She’s not kind to Joyce. She knows the invitation to the mosque will fluster Joyce and she sets her up to disgrace herself in front of Jacob. Nothing kind about that. A more subtle way to say “I know what you’re doing and I know how to win.”

      1. Hannah

        I don’t think she knew Joyce would have that reaction, Raidah’s face in the last panel seems to be annoyed with her reaction.

        1. 3-I

          That reads more as “triumphantly smug” to me. This isn’t about being nice to Joyce, because Joyce is friends with Sarah. This ain’t hard.

        2. Godfather

          Nah, she knows exactly how Joyce’d react. That’s why she said it.

      2. TheMysteriousMid

        Yea I got a unkind vibe from this. It feels passive aggressive.

      3. Socks

        Yeah I don’t super get the people who are reading this as a cool thing Raidah’s doing. It read as pretty mean, to me. Like, these people do NOT have a sufficiently friendly relationship to engage in good natured teasing at all, like Jacob and Joyce do. So this is just… regular teasing. Like, the mean kind. So I guess as long as people are also seeing that, and just think it’s justified for power dynamics and/or Joyce clearly hitting on her boyfriend reasons, we’re all on the same page more or less. I just disagree, because Raidah is a bully in at least two other ways, too, and meh to her.

    3. Emily

      Everyone was a bongo to Dina though (and in pretty much the same way to boot) so she’s hardly unique in that respect.

      1. Socks

        I mean, everyone felt like Dina was a nonsexual being because she acted, in their opinion, like a child, but Raidah knelt down to talk to condescend to her after calling her an ableist slur? I know those are both rooted in the same kind of ableism, but it is NOT the same way. Treating someone like ALL their mental faculties are beneath you is worse than just thinking it’s creepy to sexualize them, and, for example, Joyce seemed to interact with dina the same way she’d treat any other peer-group “evilutionist”.

        I’m really childish in a lot of ways myself, and I’d CERTAINLY be more offended by Raidah than the people at Joyce’s party.

        1. Fart Captor

          “Eww, don’t put the moves on Dina” is no less infantilizing, especially considering that they said this while Dina was RIGHT THERE. They weren’t reacting to Dina being sexualized, they thought it was gross/inappropriate to be attracted to her, as if Dina weren’t their peer, perfectly capable of consent, and having her own sexual and/or romantic relationships.

          Amber’s reaction to Dina telling her how Becky found her sexual attractiveness intimidating was more of the same.

          Like, it’s not monstrous and they all realized they shouldn’t do that, but it was still crappy of them at the time.

          And it was Raidah’s friend Char that used the slur. Raidah actually reprimanded her for it, before proceeding to kneel down and condescend to Dina. The only real difference there is that we haven’t seen whether Raidah is aware of the crappiness of how she treated Dina and adjusted her behavior yet. The actual treatment isn’t worse.

          Char is the only real stand out, for using a slur and intentionally insulting someone for being different

        2. Socks

          Hm, I didn’t read Amber’s laugh at Dina in that scene as finding it funny for Dina to be sexual, I read it as more like, um, that kind of laugh of recognition that someone said something surprising in a positive way (and “I’m smiling because my girlfriend finds me sexually intimidating” would be surprising to hear randomly from anyone), without actually responding to the content of the thing itself. Other people do that, right? I never really analyzed it before now. I figured that’s why she had to entomb herself in chairs when it turned out her noncommital laugh was not socially appropriate.

          Also Raidah reprimanding Char right before condescending to Dina, again, really read more like she was just aware that it was rude to say the word/point out someone’s perceived disability, and not, you know, anything about the underlying assumptions. I don’t think there’s much value in that kind of social performance reprimand in a “ranking levels of bad behavior” sense. Slapping your friend on the wrist for using a slur and then agreeing with their sentiment is not meaningfully better, in my opinion. And I still feel like “you act like a kid so it’s creepy to hit on you” is less bad than “you are too stupid to understand words”. It’s infantilizing you in one way, and not all of them. I’d rather someone think of me as bad at one thing, than totally incompetent overall.

        3. Inahc

          “And I still feel like “you act like a kid so it’s creepy to hit on you” is less bad than “you are too stupid to understand words”. ”

          Maybe because the former is more likely to listen to your words explaining how that’s problematic?
          OTOH, maybe Dina felt more comfortable pointing out that issue because she already knew the people involved.

          The two feel different to me too, but I’m not at all sure why. or whether that feeling has anything to do with any sort of objective ranking…

        4. thejeff

          OTOH, Raidah had just met Dina, initially assumed she was a kid (from both appearance and behavior) and when corrected on the age jumped to another incorrect assumption – that she had some serious disability.
          Joyce and the others had known Dina for a month or so, well enough to know she was functioning independently as an adult (as much as the average college freshman does, anyway) and they still thought of her and treated her as a kid.

    4. Zee

      Kind? To me it read more like a passive aggressive attack. Like she knew Joyce would freak out and was trying to get rid of her

      1. Pablo360

        That’s because you were predisposed to reading it in that manner. Other peiple were predisposed to reading it in some other manner, and thus did so.

        It doesn’t help that we can’t as clearly see her expression in the last panel though.

  17. Rukdug

    Does anyone else get the feeling that Raidah is actually slightly impressed by Joyce’s magic teleportation ability in the final panel? Because I read her attitude towards Joyce as going from “slightly frosty” to “surprisingly sincere” to “how the hell did you do that?”.

    1. Bagge

      Depending on how many “funny Joyce stories” she heard, she is probably also impressed by Joyce testing her limits, even as she gently ribs her about it.

      1. Needfuldoer

        Wait until she hears about the meatballs ON the noodles!

        1. Geneseepaws

          Wasn’t that meatballs on top of spaghetti?
          On top of egg noooooodles,
          All covered with butter. …. Yeah, no. Not working for me.

        2. Lingo

          I lost my poor meeeeeatbaaaaall…
          when somebody stuttered….

  18. Sporky

    Panels 3 and 4 Joyce are perf

  19. Pal

    Others are taking Raidah’s words as kind, but from my experience – “Questioning” is a very loaded word in the religious community, especially in the protestant community. In this context it means that perhaps Joyce is less certain in her faith, which sounds decent to people who aren’t religious, but to someone with Joyce’s background it’s one of the worst suggestions. It means perhaps she doesn’t have the same faith/love in god that she feels she should. That paired with the “slightly different Christian denomination” joke makes me think Raidah is actually being catty/snide to Joyce. I’m fairly certain Raidah is being catty because she sees “competition” and is “putting Joyce in her place”, which… unfortunately mirrors what we’ve seen of her personality in the past.

    And is unfortunate because I’d like to see Joyce stretch her wings and visit her mosque, if only it was a sincere offer.

    1. Jamie

      I think the mosque visit will ultimately happen, but not for a couple of real years.

      1. Zby

        So like, “this Friday at 2pm” in DOA time?

    2. Nobody

      I don’t know I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask in this scenario, Joyce recently had a traumatic event that made her disillusioned with her old church, she’s at least curious about other denominations as shown with her behavior around Jacob so I don’t think it’s intended to make her uncomfortable

    3. Jason

      There’s very few things about Raidah that we’ve seen that haven’t been filtered through other characters’ perspective. We know far more about Raidah and other characters than we do of her in her own right.
      But I feel like the one thing we HAVE seen consistently is her confidence. Genuine confidence too, not forced. So while Raidah may (or may not) be being catty, I doubt it’s because she’s “competition”, personally. If she is (I’m unconvinced either way) it could be because she’s Sarah’s friend or because Raidah saw her flirting with Jacob despite knowing him to not be single- but personally, from what we’ve seen of her, I doubt she feels threatened by Joyce.

    4. Godfather

      Yeah, Raidah isn’t being kind. She knows Joyce isn’t a threat, but she’s toying with her just because.

  20. Leorale

    Speaking as a religious minority, Raidah knows what Joyce has been taught to think about Muslims.

    I read it that Raidah was trolling Joyce, that she wanted a big funny fear reaction, to getting invited to a mosque. Kinda mean — I’d only let my bff get away with that, not somebody whom I’ve barely met.

    1. Leorale

      (Er, I meant to type, speaking as a different religious minority. I can’t speak to the experience of being Muslim specifically.)

      1. Godfather

        nah, you right. You don’t gotta be Muslim to understand what people think of us -\_(“,)_/-

        How the hell do y’all do that shrugging thing with symbols?

      2. Godfather

        ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        I did it!!

  21. Cerberus

    Comic Reactions:

    Panels 1-3: It’s fascinating that Joyce almost immediately seems to realize once Raidah breaks the spell that she’s been quasi-flirting with Jacob or at least doing something that’s worth being embarassed about.

    Like, she’s almost partially aware that there is something drawing her deeper in with Jacob in some way and it’ll be interesting to see how her subconscious handles this especially as this crush gets more intense.

    For Jacob it’s also equally interesting that he seems absolutely oblivious to the mutual chemistry. He doesn’t flinch because he doesn’t see anything they are doing as wrong because he’s interpreting this as a day out with someone friendly but sheltered who’s fun to hang out with as a friend.

    And this is a thing that happens. There are people who are naturally a little flirty but would be absolutely horrified to know their actions are being interpreted that way.

    And this fits Jacob’s character. He always goes above and beyond to reach out to folks and definitely seems to have a little bit of a “fixer” personality, where he can’t help trying to befriend people who feel a bit alienated for one reason or another and it’s a major part of his empathy and good will.

    Raidah is also interesting here. I want to say it’s nice that she doesn’t really show any jealousy here even though Joyce clearly reacts in a guilty manner to her appearance. I want to say that, but I have a feeling within a week or two that comment will be rendered quite naive.

    That said, I like Raidah not being inclined to jealousy. A) Because it’s nice to have her have positive traits seeing as how we only see the worst of her in her past interactions with Sarah and B) for someone like Jacob who is a little naturally flirty, it’s nice to have someone with him who doesn’t flip out when he tries to befriend a random girl and who trusts him.

    It’d also be nice because I am a big fan of representation for folks who are pretty whatever on the whole jealousy thing just because it’s not often seen in fiction and it’s always nice to see under-reped things show up, especially if they are traits I have.

    That all said though, I have a sinking suspicion that we are heading towards a jealousy plotline, especially with Raidah showing up in yellow as well.

    1. Inahc

      … yeah that’s basically all of what I was trying to figure out how to say 🙂 I’d like things to all be fine but I don’t *trust* Raidah, this feels like one of those times when trusting would get me hurt. Probably because she was mean to Dina – people who do that are not safe people to me. (and that’s *before* considering the clusterfuck that sarah’s got joyce headed into)

      1. Cerberus

        Yeah, she can so violently switch depending on whether she likes you or not, that it’s hard to get a fully solid lead on her.

        Which heck, would probably also be something we’d say to describe Sarah if we had an equally distant view of her (one more way in which the two have very similar personalities).

    2. Bagge

      Jup. I think Joyce suddenly crashed into the realisation that Jacob actually HAS a girlfriend. Suddenly the whole plan of seducing him for Sarah (because that was totally what she was doing) doesn’t feel so hot.

      I get a bit of a challenge from Raidah. “I see you kept within bounds… I will see if you don’t.” Possibly it’s just the framing with a closeup on her smirk, but I see just a tiny bit of asserting dominance in her behaviour. Joyce-who-snatches-her-hand-away-and-magically-teleports-5-feet-backwards seem to pick up on it to.

      1. Pablo360

        Although her offer for Joyce to come to her mosque seems 100% genuwine to me.

        1. Bagge

          Kinda. I mean, I don’t think she sees any chance of Joyce actually taking her up on it, so it’s not a huge commitment.

          But IF Joyce surprises her and shows up by the mosque I’m sure she will be a good host (although she WILL ask a few pointed questions about Sarah)

        2. Pablo360

          I’m mostly assuming it’s genuine because of her facial expression in that panel. I don’t know how much she expected Joyce’s response to be any different from this, but at the very least she wasn’t specifically intending to get this class of response.

    3. Nobody

      I don’t think Raidah’s status as Jacob’s girlfriend is why Joyce is awkward, I think it’s Raidah’s hatred for all things Sarah and vice versa

      1. thejeff

        Oh no. With all the blushing and jumping back from contact, that’s definitely an “I was just caught” reaction. Not necessarily that she just realized it, but that seeing her there brought it and her own behavior into sharp focus/

        1. Nobody

          I mean she was caught- trying to set up Jacob with Sarah (which is still her goal in her mind)

        2. Jason

          Nah. The way she pulls her arm back- that strongly says to me that she’s feeling like she was caught being flirty. I don’t think she’s yet fully aware of that though- perhaps she’s still trying to convince herself it’s all for Sarah, because doing something for someone you love is wonderful and kind (even if someone else gets a little hurt) but doing something for yourself- ESPECIALLY involving attraction and hurting others- is wrong and sinful.

          I DO suspect Joyce is more conscious of Jacob’s relationship having seen them together though.

        3. thejeff

          And she can’t be interested in Jacob because Sarah likes him. That would be betrayal.

    4. thejeff

      I’m not sure it’s jealousy on Raidah’s part, though it might look like that. More of a warning shot.

      And honestly, Raidah’s absolutely right. Joyce is planning to break them up (for Sarah, she thinks. For herself, her hormones think.) Jacob’s not planning to cheat, but taking some minor defensive action to ward off trouble.

      1. Jason

        I agree- I don’t think Raidah’s jealous. There may be a little prod to remind Joyce that the guy she’s flirting with is seeing someone, yup.
        Hard to be sure with Raidah, I look forward to her personality developing beyond her interactions with others.

  22. Meta

    Y’know I’ve wondered about this before — Joyce, at this point, presumably has little or no memory of the pre-9/11 period, so she’s probably gotten the full blast of evangelical Islamophobia that’s arisen since then. I’ve been hoping that the comic would eventually deal with this.

    1. Marsh Maryrose

      The DoA cast are essentially living in Brigadoon, but with a twist. Every night, when they go to bed, they wake up the next day two months in the future. But they somehow wake up with full knowledge of all the current-to-them technologies and memes and (one assumes) political developments.

      Four real-world months from now, Amber or Danny or someone is going to be playing Super Mario Odyssey. I guarantee it.

      1. Pl0x

        I’m pretty sure Joe and Danny have already been playing it. Remember the strip with them and Joyce in their room? Joe and Danny had been playing video games all night.

        1. Pablo360

          They were playing that Mario Rabbids game.

  23. Cerberus

    Panel 4: This is catty and at the risk of embarrassing myself like I did with regards to Anna, I can understand that cattiness. Raidah is muslim. In Indiana. In Trump’s America. She has grown up most of her life and almost all the life she’d have in memory in the shadow of 9/11 and the intense islamophobia that poured out, especially in “America’s heartland”.

    She would have grown up in a world where it was a legitimate concern that her mosque would be firebombed while she was in it, where she has likely received an epic level of street harassment on a daily basis, and where a lot of that violence likely came from devout Christian types from exactly Joyce’s background.

    So with that, I understand the cattiness. Especially as it comes from a vastly different scope than Joyce. Like, we live in Joyce’s head for the most part. We’ve seen how soul crushing and difficult it is for her to push herself this far and question this much and how much she’s agonized over it.

    But to Raidah, yeah, it likely looks elementary. Agonizing over switching to a slightly different version of Protestantism while she may be worrying about not being able to ever leave the country for fear she won’t be let back in.

    That all said though, it still is a bit catty and mean. I mean, perspective aside, no one knows what people are dealing with and if something is a big deal for someone it’s a big deal for them and it’s worth respecting that within reason so long as they are not hurting anyone.

    Panel 5: And here is just a sad moment. Raidah is very likely interpreting Joyce’s sudden retreat as a terrified response to the very idea of even acknowledging thinking of herself anywhere near a mosque. And well… it’s Joyce, there’s probably a bit of it that is that. But that is likely going to only deepen the animosity as this comes more to a head.

    And the reality is, a much larger piece is probably Joyce’s general discomfort around them being couplely and snuggly and the realization that if her fantasies continue going in the direction they are going, she is going to be in serious risk of actually interfering with an existing relationship (which she says she’s okay with, but it’s a very different thing to support something in theory rather than to do it in person).

    And the thing is, currently Jacob is happy. He loves Raidah. He feels safe and supported in that relationship. That’s a powerful thing especially for Joyce.

    And it’s sad that instead Raidah is just getting confirmation bias that Joyce is a bigot (not to say Joyce isn’t working through her issues on that) rather than appreciating the nuance of the situation and Joyce trying to have respect in her weird way to what she and Jacob have together.

    *But seriously, I’m eagerly waiting to see how long before this whole analysis becomes retroactively hilarious as this thread develops.

    1. Fart Captor

      Oh, man. I forgot that angle. Raidah thinking Joyce is freaking out because she’s a Muslim would make a ton of sense

    2. Inahc

      oh, I’d forgotten she was muslim… and that whole 9-11 thing… and that whole “not letting certain americans back into america” thing… :/ fuck. these are.. interesting times. :/ hearing about the real world is like hearing about a bad dream. it’s hard to accept that this shit is actually really happening. (and thank goodness I can still afford to not remember it most of the time)

    3. Bagge

      “a lot of that violence likely came from devout Christian types from exactly Joyce’s background.”
      Mary for example. Not that I think Mary has done anything to her face – Raidah is socially too powerful for that – but she absolutely has found SOME way of harassing muslims on campus.

      “But to Raidah, yeah, it likely looks elementary. Agonizing over switching to a slightly different version of Protestantism”
      Maybe – but Islam has plenty of exactly the same sort of more-holy-than-you-kind of sekterism where each faction police each other and their own. She might know perfectly just how big a step Joyce has taken.

      Hmmm. I read Raidah’s reaction to Joyce’s retreat in a more basal sense – I think she issued a challenge to assert dominance, and Joyce answered in kind by confirming her status as alpha-girl or whatever. “Fine, have a fun little church-date with MY boyfriend if you want, but don’t you forget who is the boss”

      1. Chris Phoenix

        I suspect that some parts of Islam have that more-holy-than-you and some don’t – just like Christianity. I don’t get the impression that Raidah was raised in a fundamentalist context.

        I was raised Christian, “fundamentalist lite” (e.g. hypnosis was of the devil and demonic possession was real) and even so, I did not experience anything like what Joyce is displaying. I don’t even grasp it intuitively. To me, it seems as exaggerated as AmaziGirl’s stunts. But Willis seems to be writing his religion true-to-life.

        I only know a few Muslims well enough to discuss religion with, but all the ones I know are far less fundamentalist than my family was. So no, Raidah being Muslim does not make it very likely that she understands what Joyce is going through.

        1. Bagge

          Yeah you are probably right.

          Still, I am raised about as secular as can be (“there is the church, you can go there if you want to”) in one of the most secular countries in the word, but I have no shortage of examples of friends and neighbors who are part of far more sect-like churches with a lot of internal policing.

        2. ValdVin

          So your upbringing was basically,

          “Here is the Church
          Here is the Steeple
          Open the door
          Or not–we’re cool.”

        3. Bagge

          …yes. I have never thought of it like that before, or never been able to put it that eloquently, but yes.

      2. ValdVin

        I’m going with your last idea.

        Also, Jacob and Raidah don’t church together; Joyce really doesn’t want to spend an hour with Raidah after being caught out here! The secret plan for Sarah would not be secret for long.

        Tangent: Besides her father being a lawyer, what do we know about Raidah? What are 87th is she from, and what “background radiation” of islamaphobic behavior has she had to shrug off from others? (Here’s where my being a coastal elite (sic), and older than Willis, leaves me ignorant.)

        1. ValdVin

          Predictive spelling ugh!

          “What city / town is she from?” And Jacob too, for that matter.

        2. Conuly

          Raidah looks African-American and she doesn’t wear any form of headcovering. She may be able to avoid having any random islamophobic behavior being directed at her. On the other hand, she may hear a lot of “we agree on this!” islamophobic garbage from people who assume she isn’t Muslim because she doesn’t wear any form of headcovering.

        3. ValdVin

          Yep. Do we have a last name for her?

          In-comic people may pre-judge things about her if (1) it were ordinary as Wilcox or Brown, or (2) signifying as Rosenthal or Siegal.

          If we are getting a “Joyce goes to mosque” arc, I would like to find out more about Raidah.

        4. BBCC

          Raidah isn’t black. I’m pretty sure she’s South Asian.

        5. Roborat

          Oh, I never thought of that possibility, I was assuming she was some middle eastern ethnicity.

        6. BBCC

          She could be! Her interests in the books included a popular South Asian comedian. She could be an Arab woman or another Middle Eastern ethnicity though – her full name (Raidah Rasheed) are both Arabic.

        7. ValdVin

          Her last name is Rasheed? Thanks for the fill-in; it totally escaped me somehow.

        8. the final pam

          She could be both? Afro-Arabs exist, you know

    4. OnyxIdol

      I wonder if Raidah being muslim is actually a big deal in her everyday life. I mean, she doesn’t wear a head scarf, and other than her vague brownness she hasn’t any optical attributes that would single her out. Most people who don’t know her wouldn’t recognize her as muslim.

      1. Minim

        I wouldn’t think that wearing a headscarf or not would really be an indicator of how big a deal her religion is to her though – I’ve certainly known muslims without the headscarf who were just as devout as the ones who did (if not more). We’d have to get to know Raidah better before we could really say anything for sure.

        1. Fart Captor

          Yeah, all the more true since people in the U.S. often treat Muslims terribly, leading many who would otherwise wear a headscarf to leave it off to avoid harassment

    5. Leorale

      Another possible take on Raidah asserting her membership in her mosque — she could well be trolling the fundie, to scare off a rival and/or like a sort of self-defense jew jitsu to get power over something oppressive by making it into a joke. Like, ooh, I know what will really freak her out, I’ll assert my religion (and imply she might want to join, no less), that’ll get a rise for sure. Because she fears my religion and thinks I’m extremely horrible. …Hilarious!

      Invoking Joyce’s likely prejudice on Raidah’s own terms could be a way to drag it to the fore and be the boss of it.

      I don’t know if Muslims make jokes of their oppressors, but Jews are famous for it, and we do share a lot of cultural similarity…?
      …In absence of real knowledge, I projected Raidah as fully powerful and in control of poking Joyce right in the Islamophobia.

      Plus, panel 3 spelled out Joyce’s crush for Raidah, which may also make it appealing to send Joyce fleeing for the hills. Either or both!

      1. neeks

        Was “jew jitsu” a Freudian pun?

        1. Leorale

          It was an intentional pun, but if it’s funnier I can pretend I didn’t mean to. 🙂

      2. Pablo360

        I dunno, her eyebrows are the eyebrows of genuines

    6. Madison

      I will say one thing- Raidah also knows Joyce as Sarah’s roommate, so I wonder if she considers THAT coloring this interaction? The last time Joyce saw Raidah, to my knowledge, was at the mall where Sarah punched her. I think.

      1. thejeff

        Raidah showed up with Jacob to Joyce’s party and I think she came to get Jacob for lunch when Sarah and Joyce were talking to him after class once since then.

        1. Madison

          You are correct! I forgot they had those interactions.

  24. JessWitt

    Do the moonwalk next, Joyce!

  25. Badgermole

    Thought: does Raidah live in Forrest? She has the glasses for it.

  26. Somebro

    wait

    is sarah too a muslim?

    that’d be a funny position to put joyce in

    1. Pablo360

      I… don’t recall whether or not Sarah’s religion (or lack thereof) has been discussed in-comic.

    2. tim gueguen

      Given her general attitude I would imagine Sarah is some sort of agnostic. And given that she is named Sarah she probably doesn’t come from a family with a tradition of being Muslim.

      1. KM

        You’re probably right, but WRT to the name alone…not necessarily… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_(given_name) – it’s definitely used by muslims that I know

        1. Pablo360

          I mean, I’m pretty sure the name Sarah comes from the Torah, so yeah

  27. newllend(henryvolt)

    Oh yeah Raidah, I had actually forgot about her.

  28. Creatrix Tiara

    FRIDAY? During the super hectic Jumaah prayer?

    I guess if you’re looking for a ‘service’ it’s the most ‘servicey’ thing that can happen at a mosque when it’s not a religious holiday (people usually go there to pray, there’s no real sermon or whatever except on Fridays) but it would also be a LOT for Joyce.

  29. Bagge

    Awwwww, panel 3 Joyce snatching her hand away from the forbidden fruit. Perhaps the plan (to totally get Jacob together with SARAH, that’s the plan for sure) doesn’t feel that hot any longer.

  30. Carms

    ‘she’ is the cat’s mother >:/
    She’s right fucking there raidah geez.

  31. Reltzik

    Okay, so is Raidah’s takeaway from this…

    (A) Joyce is jumpy around Raidah because she’s guilty over… flirting? Is that flirting?… with Jacob?

    (B) Joyce is scared of Raidah because she’s Islamophobic?

    or (C) Both?

    I’m…. thinking B, actually.

    1. Arianod

      Had Raidah even mentioned her religion before? I don’t think so. I think it’s A.

      1. thejeff

        She has. Or at least Jacob has. It’s a known thing.
        It’s A.

        1. Jason

          Definitely think it’s A, but has Raidah’s religion been spelled out to Joyce? All I recall Jacob saying to her is that they don’t attend church together “considering”. IIRC he doesn’t explicitly say that she’s of a different religion.

        2. Jason

          Oh, wait, Raidah’s take- probably both at the end there.

    2. Pablo360

      Judging by her last line I’m saying B until further information.

    3. Leorale

      I’m going with Both (with a small, non-touching side dish of ‘Joyce believes whatever Sarah said about me’).

  32. ValdVin

    How many times a week does Raidah “shoo” girls away from Jacob? His reactions certainly don’t show anything of his being transgressive. But Joyce really snapped out of her flirt-fugue-state.

    1. thejeff

      He does seem pretty oblivious, doesn’t he. I suspect it is a pattern. He gets into these close flirty friendships with girls who are blatantly crushing on him and then wonders why his girlfriends are all so jealous.

      1. Leorale

        That would completely make sense.

      2. StClair

        I can see it.

  33. Pidgey

    I don’t understand Raidah’s statement in the final panel. I think the meaning went over my head.

    1. Jake'm

      I think she noticed how Joyce was reacting to her presence, and made a pointed comment about it.

    2. Pablo360

      She’s basically pointing out how Joyce’s expression of flusteredness at the presence of the girlfriend of the man she just realized she’d been flirting with all morning could be interpreted as a slight against Raidah’s faith.

  34. BenRG

    Raidah’s expression in panel 2 tells me that she figures she has free flowers and pampering for at least the next week so long as she mentions about that ‘sweet little girl’ who was so clearly all over (and super into) Jacob.

  35. darkoneko

    You know you’ll get to try it too at some point, Joyce~~

  36. Amelie

    Just so we’re on the same page, Joyce has no ideas about Islam at all, right? Her church is more “Other Christians are evil and Atheists are confused but other religions are just too weird to even think about”, as I understand. So I imagine the idea of going to mosque is like going to another planet.

    1. BenRG

      If Joyce has any kind of preconceived notions about Islam it is probably something along the lines of: “Muslims want to destroy our country and turn the United States into a larger version of Iran.” The fact that Islam has as many sects, branches and degrees of violent puritanism as Christianity is probably something about which she knows little or nothing.

      1. Wraithy2773

        Yeah, given how she reacted to merely being in a church vaguely reminiscent of Catholicism? It’s pretty likely that she’s only been told the ugly parts of Islam’s past and teachings, like if all you heard about the Christian faith was that they felt you should be stoned for wearing Cotton/Poly blends and the efforts of the Crusades…

        1. BenRG

          You’ll have to tell me more about the group that have an issue about polyester-based clothing. I mean, there are fashionistas with the same viewpoint but this is the first time that I’ve heard it suggested that there is a divine mandate for that! 😀

        2. JBento

          Clothing made of mixed or dyed fibres is a no-no according to the bible.

        3. CJ

          Wasn’t that in the Old Testament?

        4. JBento

          So is “god made the world”, but that didn’t stop any christian from droning on about it.

        5. Pablo360

          “God made the world” was also in the Gospel of John.

  37. Vulcanodon

    Panel 3: Surprising she didn’t pass out from making a 9-g turn like that. I think I got a sunburn right through the screen off that blush.

    Panel 6: Do it Joyce! Take Raidah up on her offer. If you ever start listening to the similarities in worship services instead of picking out differences, it will be a rude shock.

  38. Irredentist

    Yeah good luck with that. From what I’ve been told, women don’t even get to participate that much at Friday mosque, unfortunately.

    1. Kryss LaBryn

      Hah, that might be why Raidah’s saying she’d be “welcome” to come to that one. :/

    2. Pablo360

      Really? You should tell that to my Mom’s friend’s mosque, they didn’t get the memo.

      1. Leorale

        Mosques are all different, just like churches and synagogues are.

        1. Pablo360

          Exactly. And it fucking pisses me off when people go about actively telling people that the behaviors and customs of the worst Muslims should be evaluated as accurate for all Muslims. Especially because so many of the people doing it are Christians who would balk at anyone applying the same logic to their religion.

        2. Leorale

          Snake-handling churches for everyone! We can speak in tongues, it’ll be fun.

          Oppressive, patriarchal mosques are totally a thing, but it seems unlikely that Raidah would pick one if she’s able to avoid it? She’s limited to what’s available in this part of Indiana, but otherwise, it’s an open question just what sort of place she attends.

  39. HentMas

    I know I don’t really comment here very often

    but fuck Raidah, she’s annoying

    1. JBento

      I… what? O_o

  40. Pablo360

    Ok everyone saying Raida is teasing Joyce in the second-to-last panel please shut up, her eyebrows are not the brows of sarcasms

    1. Pablo360

      h

    2. Inahc

      Please don’t tell them to shut up just because you think they’re wrong.

      1. Pablo360

        I’m not JUST trying to tell them to shut up because I think they’re wrong. I ALSO think they’re bringing in some subconscious baggage and interpreting the strip in a manner that is inconsistent with visual cues.

        1. thejeff

          On the other hand, her “ahem” and expression in the second panel aren’t exactly friendly and welcoming.

  41. Aviana

    I wonder how much of Raidah’s interaction is influenced by what she’s assuming Sarah’s said about her to the new roommate? That’s at least a main thing she has to frame Joyce by. Am I overly optimistic for hoping some side effect of all the current shenanigans is Jacob finds out about Dana and the resulting feud? He’s so out of the loop on that rn…

    1. Pablo360

      Who says Raidah wouldn’t have filled him in?

    2. Fart Captor

      She’s told him about the feud at least. It seems possible that she might’ve told him about Dana off-panel since then

  42. Gesc

    People don’t like Raidah because she’s not the main character, not even part of the main cast. So she’s either a foe or a plot device. I mean, she’s far from perfect but specifically in this comic that can be said about everyone. She has that “sharpness” about her, sure, but I’ll reserve my judgment about her in relation to Joyce until she actively attacks her.

    That said, as the girlfriend she sort of has a right to frown upon stuff like someone trying to sway Jacob away, doesn’t she? Ineffective as the efforts might be.

    To me, the best resolution for this would be that nothing at all changed, but then we would be wasting strips.

    1. chris73

      I don’t mind Raidah at all, she seems fairly normal with fairly normal reactions to things

      I mean she sees a cute girl flirting with her boyfriend and reacts accordingly which seems quite realistic to me

    2. Inahc

      That girl at the desk in read hall isn’t part of the main cast and plenty of people like her.

    3. Pablo360

      People don’t like Raidah because the first things we learned about her had to do with her feud with Sarah, someone to whom we had already been endeared, and also because the way she spoke to Dina at the mall was Super Not Good®. But I think a large chunk of the comments — myself included — have changed opinions on her since then.

      1. Indoor Cat

        Um, are you being sarcastic with the “Super Not Good®” thing? Because what Raidah said to Dina was ablist. It’s not an exaggeration or some kind of “b*tch eating crackers” critique to say that Raidah’s actions were ablist.

        If you’re neurotypical, or is you’ve never struggled with ablist bullying because of a disability, it’s really disheartening to hear you try to dismiss or downplay the harm caused by the kinds of things Raidah said and did.

        I’m honestly pretty frustrated at the number of Raidah-sympathizers in these comments. I mean, Raidah hasn’t had any change of heart or attitude. It makes me feel like everyone thinks what she did wasn’t that big of a deal, when it really was.

        1. Jaybie

          Cosigned. Honestly the condescending sympathy has always been more hurtful to me than just straight up honest assholery

    4. Jason

      It’s because we’ve seen her through the perspective of main characters, almost exclusively in a negative light. We haven’t seen enough of her as her own person to counterbalance that yet. I hope we will.

  43. ValdVin

    Panel 5: Have we seen Joyce do a no punctuation speech balloon before?

  44. Roger Sterling

    Oh great, it isn’t just a shit heel who I have to root against even though she technically has the moral high ground, it’s a shit heel who’s an adjacent minority to me and has the moral high ground. God dammit.

    1. Puckish Rogue

      Why is Raidah a shit heel?

      1. Roger Sterling

        Look, like I said, she’s technically is in the right here, but she is an unrepentant asshole to everyone who doesn’t lead her idea of a normal lifestyle and mindset.

        1. Puckish Rogue

          Who has she been an unrepentant asshole to except Sarah?

        2. Tunasammich

          Isn’t that enough?

  45. Indoor Cat

    Also, full disclosure, I’ve firmly disliked Raidah ever since she was super ablist to Dina, which was about the first time we met her: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/challenged/

    Which stung Dina long after that interaction:
    http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/04-walking-with-dina/intel/

    And shortly after that interaction, we learn that the reason Raidah hates Sarah so much is because Sarah tried to get help for Dana, who was using drugs. While drug use is a complicated issue, and calling Dana’s parents might not have been the right move, it’s a much more understandable and defensible action than Raidah’s (which was, essentially, “do nothing and hope the problem goes away on its’ own.”)

    Sarah defends Dina from insult in the first scene with Raidah, and Sarah’s main character trait seems to be “fury over injustice and people coming to harm” and “a willingness to punch [bullies / rapists], and damn the consequences!”

    It’s also telling, I think, that Raidah is someone Billie immediately identifies as one of the “cool girls” in that scene. Aka, rich, smug sense of superiority, socially powerful, used to admiration, and a degree of shallowness that Billie is beginning to grow out of. I’m perfectly comfortable characterizing Raidah as a Regina George-esque bully or mean girl, based on what we know about her.

    So, the generous interpretation that in this scene, Raidah is *not* being her typical smug, catty, bullying self is…too optimistic, I think. As someone who empathizes deeply with the Dinas of the world (and wants more Sarahs in my life), I’m not going to like Raidah unless and until she has an arc where she genuinely internalizes how much she hurts people who are less powerful than her and turns her bullying attitude around.

    Until then, I think doing the mental gymnastics it takes to make Raidah into a decent person aren’t worth it. Bullies can change, but Raidah hasn’t.

    1. Roger Sterling

      Raidah is basically Mary, but with lower charisma and higher heels.

      There’s also that Raidah isn’t as borderline…shall we say…Axis II as Mary is, but that doesn’t make her a pleasant or even interesting character by any means. It certainly doesn’t help that her current narrative function is to prevent more interesting things from happening.

      She’s the worst characteristics of Regina George and Skyler White without any of the virtues of either.

      1. Puckish Rogue

        That’s really harsh towards Raidah

    2. Puckish Rogue

      Lets be honest here the first time that they meet is here: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/friend/

      and she initially thought she was in middle school which is not too dissimilar to this: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/safe-2/

      Where the general consensus of everyone was Dina seems about 12 so its not surprising Raidah thought Dina was in middle school because they’d only just met

    3. Puckish Rogue

      Lets be honest here the first time that they meet is here: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/friend/

      1. Puckish Rogue

        and Raidah initially thought Dina was in middle school which is not too dissimilar to this: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/safe-2/

        Where the general consensus of everyone was Dina seems about 12 so its not surprising Raidah thought Dina was in middle school

        1. Indoor Cat

          “Everyone was being somewhat ableist, so it’s okay that one person was being even *more* ableist, especially since she wasn’t quite as ableist as one of her two best friends.” Nah. Not how it works.

          Also, as soon as Joyce / Becky / Sarah / Amber talked to Dina for a few minutes, they each realized that she’s a peer and deserves their respect. Whereas Raidah just amped up the condescension.

        2. thejeff

          Except they didn’t (except for Becky). Their “don’t hit on her, she’s like a kid” thing was well after they met her.
          And Raidah didn’t talk to Dina for more than a few minute. About one weird and out of context sentence from Dina before she did her condescending thing.

  46. Isyldrin

    OK friends I love this comic, but I’m completely caught up.can any one suggest another comic of similar style. I’ve also enjoyed something positive, questionable content, and girls with slingshots. Help me out please! And thank you!

    1. Lingo

      Octopus Pie perhaps? You’ve already listed all the good slice-of-life comics I regularly read.

      1. Isyldrin

        Thanks guys that should keep me going!

    2. Indoor Cat

      If you like slice-of-life but with a s/f setting, I really love ‘O Human Star’ by Blue Deliquanti.

      Another excellent, finished webcomic is “The Epic Adventure of TJ & Amal” by EK Weaver. Warning, this is a gay romance, and it’s got some NSFW scenes!

      If you like fantasy and have a lot of time, my three favorite fantasy webcomics are “Unsounded” by Ashley Cope, “Gunnerkrigg Court,” by Tom Siddell, and “Dark Science” by Dresden Codak (aka Aaron Diaz).

      Of the three, Gunnerkrigg Court is probably my favorite. It’s about a school on the border of a magical forest and a futuristic city. It straddles the border between magic and science, and at the school, students can study either, or both. Magic is sort-of akin to art, or music–it can be taught, but not everyone can learn it, and no two people’s magic will look the same.

      It is easily my favorite take on a magical school, in part because magic isn’t a secret. People in human society find great sorcerers impressive the way we find great artists impressive, but in a way, it is the scientists who are more frightening and less understood. And the way the school is perceived by the very much non-human people in the forest is the source of a lot of conflict.

  47. BP

    … Okay, see, I know Raidah has likable qualities. She’s practical. She’s straightforward. She’s faithful but not pushy about her religion or the religions of others. She’s almost always initially friendly to new people.

    But because of her treatment of Sarah, I just can’t like her. It makes all her good qualities seem hypocritical. I’ve had friends like her before, who wouldn’t let go of one bad incident and treated me like shit for it for the rest of my life. And it hurt, knowing it took so little for them to go 180 on their opinion of me even after getting to know me; that the friendship they extended to me could be taken away so easily.

    And I want Joyce and Jacob to both avoid Raidah because of that. She can preach about lack of jealousy and moving on easily all she wants, but if her treatment of Sarah is any indication, she never forgives a perceived wrong, and will rip you apart forever over even one slip.

    1. PB

      Did this comment get me blocked? Something got me blocked and I can’t post under this name anymore.

  48. PB

    Seriously, I am very confused. Am I blocked? Why?

    1. PB

      Never mind, it seems like it’s just a glitch.

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