You jest, but just imagine Sal and Amber’s reaction if the two started kissing right now. That would be the ONE THING that would instantly end the fight. They would have no choice but to stop and stare, and then excuse themselves for a while.
This comment actually raised a very worrying thought in my mind. At the time she rescued Becky from Ross, I suspected that Amazi-Girl didn’t care if she died in the process; indeed, that dying at her moment of triumph might have actually been something that a part of her psyche wanted. Similarly, I’m now wondering whether dying at Sal’s hands now would be preferable to Amber to trying to get a handle on her manifold problems.
Amber’s out, AmaziGirl comes in
“this is not even my final form”
MatthewTheLucky
I want to see Amazi-Girl try to talk Sal down.
MatthewTheLucky
Especially because, of the entire cast, Amazi-Girl is the only one who will absolutely take Sal’s side here.
thejeff
Having Amazi-Girl show up and save the day, even with rational calmness, is way down on my list of good things.
Just a complete confirmation for Amber that she’s the monster and Amazi-Girl is the golden one. Drives Amber into an even worse place, when right now (aside from the minor being choked thing) I think she’s made a big step: facing Sal as Amber without going all ragey.
peacecat92
I’m curious how you think she’s facing her without being “ragey”? Because I don’t know how else to describe this encounter but violent.
thejeff
It’s certainly violent, but compare with when she stomped Blaine into the ground or what we saw of the fight with Ryan. Amber’s fighting more like Amazi-Girl her – skill, not blind rage.
And most importantly, she stops.
You knocked her down Amber you didn’t win you dick for brains. This ain’t frigging WWE they don’t just lie down and you win. Now Sal, if you would kindly finish kicking her butt.
She literally said “Tonight Amber defeats you. Amber can defeat you.” directly before “I did (it?)”.
She seems to be talking about a very literal victory in martial combat here. Not like a metaphorical victory over her own inner demons.
BBCC
She thinks the martial victory will give her the metaphorical one.
gangler
She hadn’t achieved the martial victory though, is the thing.
BBCC
She thought she did though, before Sal choke slammed her.
gangler
She had no reason to think so. There was nothing indicating that such was the case.
Kinoko
Yeah, this was a response to the comment that knocking someone down does NOT mean they are out of the fight.
BBCC
Sure, Amber was overconfident and thought she won. I’m saying that’s why she made the connection. Not that her reasoning was accurate.
Sam
I think being able to knock Sal down was enough of a ‘literal’ victory for her that it then went into a metaphorical victory that Amber was able to fight against, and even overcome, what Sal represents to her. That ‘the monster’ she has been afraid of, is not invulnerable, or impossible for her to defeat. That would feel immensely cathartic but it did give Sal time to recover to fight more.
gangler
She already knew Sal wasn’t invulnerable. Stab wound, remember?
Sam
That was while Sal was detained and unable to fight back. In most other occasions since then, the sight of Sal has sent her into flashbacks. She hasn’t been able to tolerate her presence without great distance or switching to Amazi-Girl. ‘Knowing’ someone is logically not invulnerable is different from actually ‘winning’ against the ‘demons’ they represent to you which doesn’t have to be an ACTUAL victory. She reached a point where she felt she ‘won’ and that was good enough for her.
Needfuldoer
Amber’s interactions with Sal have always been between her and the demons Sal represents to her*. Now that she finally ‘won’ against them, she doesn’t seem to care what the other human being she’s been attacking does to her. She doesn’t care if she lives or dies now that she can add this ‘victory’ to her twisted, disconnected-from-reality internal narrative. (Not that she seemed to care too much before.)
*Maybe except that one time they played Mario Kart together, across the room out of line of sight.
Adam Black
I think its that she Fought Sal from beginning to ( an ) end , without Amazigirl.
She even let Sal decide to fight and start. She remained mostly in control, what she needs Amazigirl for
I really don’t. Neither is listening to the other, even though they could learn a lot. They’re fighting what they think the other person is, which is apparently not up for negotiation. They’re speaking incoherently and trying to seriously injure each other. They’re entirely out of control and won’t stop at least until one is unconscious. Despite Sal running after Ethan to prove that she can de-escalate, and Amber afraid that her rage would be destructive unless she let off steam, they both lost all their progress. They are the worst versions of themselves, the versions they thought they could escape. They are blazing frenzies of rage, immune to logic and opposing viewpoints. They are two fireworks colliding head on.
And they are the same. In the original flashback, Ethan told Amber that she and Sal were the same. For awhile it looked like Amber was what Sal had overcome, and that she needed to get over her anger to get on with her life. But now, neither one is in control. All their anger was buried, and in fighting, they unearthed each other’s. And they’re equally powerful.
At the start of this storyline, I thought this confrontation would be a deep cathartic conversation. Instead, they’re shellacking each other, animals fighting to the death. Which is just as effective; they have an audience who knows why they have all this anger. When the haze of red blows over, they will see what they have done and they will have to pick up the pieces. Or maybe they won’t. Maybe they see the mess and convince themselves that like every other bad thing in their lives, it is the other one’s fault.
And Amber has nothing to learn from Sal. They both lived very different lives. Neither is handling their situation properly. Both can’t let go. Both won’t learn. Period.
gangler
Sal is rehabilitated, so at a bare minimum Amber can learn that that’s possible. She goes on all day about how she’s a monster, as if that’s some immutable fact, like a warlock cursed her and now she must commit 1 act of violence a day regardless of how she might feel on the matter, and yet Sal hasn’t robbed any gas stations lately.
Maki
Yeah, because rehabilitated people chokeslam people all the time. That’s a thing they teach you in therapy. (Before you say she did in self defense, let me point out that Amber was 100% self absorbed, and this was a perfect chance for Sal to get away, instead she has decided to go all in into this debacle, because of #reasons)
gangler
You’re allowed to confront your violent stalker. That is not a sign that you are relapsing into old criminal habits.
Any law abiding citizen can be pushed to extremes if they’re harassed for months on end.
Maki
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Amber is in any way in the right here (As a matter of fact, I think she needs to spend some time in a mental hospital), but to denominate her a stalker is simpllfying the issue between them that really makes me love this storyline. Amber very clearly did not want this confrontation, it was Sal who initiated it. However, Amber’s deranged behavior did lead her to instigate other such confrontation in the past that would have primed Sal for this. However, considering Amber’s SEVERE mental issues (the kind that should really make people think if she really can live functionaly by herself), I dunno that she can be held responsible for all her actions that escalated this situation into this very messed up point.
Maki
My point however, is that at this point in the storyline, Sal should know that there is nothing to be gained in this conversation (she’s the only mentally sane one here) and should disengage. Instead, she continues to escalate this. Which denotes the exact behavioral pattern Marcie was on her case for. Her inability to just take the L, walk away, and maybe decide to change her approach.
gangler
Of course Amber didn’t want this confrontation. That’s why she wore a mask when she was violently stalking for months. Tough titties on that one.
gangler
Sorry, I could’ve phrased that better. Amber didn’t want this confrontation, but this was in no way a sign that she was planning on ceasing to violently stalk Sal, or a sign that she no longer needed to be dealt with.
She hasn’t wanted the confrontation since day 1. Hence the mask. Sal’s giving it to her regardless, you know, on account of the violent stalking.
Maki
Considering they had conversations with each other where they acted friendly towards the other, and how Amber was freaking out about not wanting this confrontation literally seconds before it started. I’d say it was pretty obvious that before this fight started, Amber did not want it, at least not the side of her that was in control. Until Sal approached and literally threw down the gauntlet. They both launched into the fight with gusto, but it was clearly Sal who goaded her into it. Not saying she does not have a reason to, but at this instance Sal is as much in control of the situation as Amber is. And she’s just letting rage take over. Neither of them is justified in the way they’re handling this situation even if Amber’s behavior has been more persistent and harmful. Sal still has had many opportunities to bow out and has taken none of them.
gangler
Of course Sal is in control of the situation.
She actually knows who she’s dealing with for the first time since this has started.
Confronting her violent stalker is still not a sign that she is relapsing into old criminal habits. Any law abiding citizen would likely do the same in her shoes. She has been pushed to extremes by months of harassment.
Amber needs to be dealt with, and the police have proven ineffectual with her in the past.
Maki
Again, at this point qualifying Amber and Sal’s relationship as her simply being a violent stalker greatly simplifies their relationship and reduces it.
Here are 3 strips where they show the two of them actually cooperating towards a common goal and having real conversations. And it was a cooperation that they both agreed upon, clearly. So, it’s a lot more complex than Amber being simply a violent stalker. That being said, I am in agreement Amber needs to be dealt with. She’s fucking dangerous to herself and others. I’m just saying, Sal is not the one to do it, and she’s not justified in what she’s doing here or how she’s doing it. Not one bit.
gangler
Oh wow! Sal played nice with Amber for a moment! I guess she was asking for it! *eyeroll*
Maki
That’s not at all what I’m saying, I’m saying they were more than just stalker/stalkee. I’m also saying confronting your stalker is fine, choke-slamming them is assault.
I think all the comments about Amber being the violent stalker, ha s given people Amnesia that Sal chose to escalate. Sal decided to make it a fight. Sal threw the first punch.
Vukodlak
Sal had no interest in confronting her stalker until she realized it was the same girl who stabbed her in the hand years ago. So Gangler your entire argument is moot. Sal STARTING the fight here has nothing to do with what happened at college but what happend at the gas station years ago.
If Amber hadn’t been there that day Sal still would have been arrested. And her parents still would have practically disowned her. The only difference in her life would be a lack of a physical scar on her hand.
BBCC
That’s not entirely true, Vukodiak. Sal definitely wanted to confront AG before now. It just ended up getting overshadowed by Ryan and as they worked together on that, they were making peace. And then she found out that the person who stalked and harassed her was also the girl who stabbed her without any sort of legal or parental consequences (although her dad took out his embarrassment on her mom, because he’s an abusive tool, though Sal couldn’t have known that) and who she just found kissing her brother the other day. That is a lot to take in, and yeah, Sal feels more than a little manipulated. That’s what she was yelling about before they BOTH agreed they wanted to fight. It’s a culmination of all her problems with Amber (and her problems with AG, though Sal doesn’t know they’re separate).
Sal wouldn’t be disabled if Amber hadn’t been there, that’s true, but her problems with Amber are related to things Amber actually did, the same way Amber’s problems with Sal are related to things Sal actually did.
AntJ
I think Sal DID learn to control it, but finding out the truth about Amber caused her to lapse severely
Alanari
Not really, actually. She learned to listen to people who pull her back. Marcie, mostly. This kind of involves cooling down when requested to do so, but she never learned to identify situations that can and should be solved peacefully.
Better than nothing but not the same as having control.
Maki
Everyone has something to learn from one another. Even if it is from their mistakes.
471 thoughts on “Handle”
Ana Chronistic
Danny: “I-is it okay if I handle MYself”
Ethan: “C-can I handle YOU later”
Doctor_Who
You jest, but just imagine Sal and Amber’s reaction if the two started kissing right now. That would be the ONE THING that would instantly end the fight. They would have no choice but to stop and stare, and then excuse themselves for a while.
Axel
first they’d have to be like ‘hey look at this!’ or Sal and Amber might not notice
Drunk Mike
What if Amber and Sal started kissing? It worked with Billie and Ruth. It would be a happier ending than the one I’m expecting.
Proto
It’d shut Amber down in a hurry but would it really do anything to Sal?
Pterodactyl Ghost
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!
AnvilPro
Amber’s like “I already won nerd, you go ahead and kill me if it makes you feel any better”
BenRG
This comment actually raised a very worrying thought in my mind. At the time she rescued Becky from Ross, I suspected that Amazi-Girl didn’t care if she died in the process; indeed, that dying at her moment of triumph might have actually been something that a part of her psyche wanted. Similarly, I’m now wondering whether dying at Sal’s hands now would be preferable to Amber to trying to get a handle on her manifold problems.
Deanatay
Sal has a strongly-repressed urge to strangle weirdos.
It’s much better now. It’s not repressed anymore.
Clif
The thing is, she’s about to put Amber to sleep, which leaves Amazigirl in control.
nicostrat
Amber’s out, AmaziGirl comes in
“this is not even my final form”
MatthewTheLucky
I want to see Amazi-Girl try to talk Sal down.
MatthewTheLucky
Especially because, of the entire cast, Amazi-Girl is the only one who will absolutely take Sal’s side here.
thejeff
Having Amazi-Girl show up and save the day, even with rational calmness, is way down on my list of good things.
Just a complete confirmation for Amber that she’s the monster and Amazi-Girl is the golden one. Drives Amber into an even worse place, when right now (aside from the minor being choked thing) I think she’s made a big step: facing Sal as Amber without going all ragey.
peacecat92
I’m curious how you think she’s facing her without being “ragey”? Because I don’t know how else to describe this encounter but violent.
thejeff
It’s certainly violent, but compare with when she stomped Blaine into the ground or what we saw of the fight with Ryan. Amber’s fighting more like Amazi-Girl her – skill, not blind rage.
And most importantly, she stops.
Jay
You knocked her down Amber you didn’t win you dick for brains. This ain’t frigging WWE they don’t just lie down and you win. Now Sal, if you would kindly finish kicking her butt.
Makkabee
Missing the point on an epic scale.
Makkabee
Why am I even engaging? This isn’t going to be a productive discussion, just another nasty internet fight that changes nothing and benefits no one.
*walks away*
Jago
My inner thought process before I post literally anyhthing. (And yet I still sometimes do. And sometimes I am surprised, so…)
Jimi
I relate so hard.
Skeptible
On the internet nobody can see you walk away. Maybe that is why it happens so rarely.
Ana Chronistic
/walks away
/comes back to check for responses
Chronos
I think she’s saying something more along the lines that she faced her fear instead of ran.
gangler
She literally said “Tonight Amber defeats you. Amber can defeat you.” directly before “I did (it?)”.
She seems to be talking about a very literal victory in martial combat here. Not like a metaphorical victory over her own inner demons.
BBCC
She thinks the martial victory will give her the metaphorical one.
gangler
She hadn’t achieved the martial victory though, is the thing.
BBCC
She thought she did though, before Sal choke slammed her.
gangler
She had no reason to think so. There was nothing indicating that such was the case.
Kinoko
Yeah, this was a response to the comment that knocking someone down does NOT mean they are out of the fight.
BBCC
Sure, Amber was overconfident and thought she won. I’m saying that’s why she made the connection. Not that her reasoning was accurate.
Sam
I think being able to knock Sal down was enough of a ‘literal’ victory for her that it then went into a metaphorical victory that Amber was able to fight against, and even overcome, what Sal represents to her. That ‘the monster’ she has been afraid of, is not invulnerable, or impossible for her to defeat. That would feel immensely cathartic but it did give Sal time to recover to fight more.
gangler
She already knew Sal wasn’t invulnerable. Stab wound, remember?
Sam
That was while Sal was detained and unable to fight back. In most other occasions since then, the sight of Sal has sent her into flashbacks. She hasn’t been able to tolerate her presence without great distance or switching to Amazi-Girl. ‘Knowing’ someone is logically not invulnerable is different from actually ‘winning’ against the ‘demons’ they represent to you which doesn’t have to be an ACTUAL victory. She reached a point where she felt she ‘won’ and that was good enough for her.
Needfuldoer
Amber’s interactions with Sal have always been between her and the demons Sal represents to her*. Now that she finally ‘won’ against them, she doesn’t seem to care what the other human being she’s been attacking does to her. She doesn’t care if she lives or dies now that she can add this ‘victory’ to her twisted, disconnected-from-reality internal narrative. (Not that she seemed to care too much before.)
*Maybe except that one time they played Mario Kart together, across the room out of line of sight.
Adam Black
I think its that she Fought Sal from beginning to ( an ) end , without Amazigirl.
She even let Sal decide to fight and start. She remained mostly in control, what she needs Amazigirl for
BrokenEye, the True False Prophet
So she gets knocked down, but she gets up again?
Eromer
You’re never gonna keep her down
SgtWadeyWilson
But it’s Billie who takes a whiskey drink.
gangler
What exactly did Amber expect to happen there?
Mr. Mendo
She was too busy writing the movie in her head; this is just another day at the office for Sal…
gangler
Sal, doing her best Rita Repulsa impression: Curses! Noble Warrior, you have foiled me again! Now to retreat back into my lair!
Delicious Taffy
Then she’d complain about a sudden headache and call people childish names.
Mr. Mendo
Now I’m picturing Amber as Mr. Satan.
newllend(henryvolt)
Lol Screw you guys this actually made me laugh. ?
Mr. Mendo
Thank you! We’re here ’til Thursday! Try the veal! 😉
Delicious Taffy
I’m actually shipping out tonight, to beat the traffic. Also, don’t try the veal, it encourages the needless slaughter of a helpless baby.
Darkoneko
Lol. The strangling move. I should have seen that coming, with the number of times she used that on Joyce
Dean
Joyce off to one side, ‘I taught her that!’
Kris
That’s a pretty grim callback.
Deanatay
Sal has a strongly-repressed urge to strangle weirdos.
It’s much better now. It’s not repressed anymore.
Sporky
i like how sal just doesn’t even know what amber is talking about and doesn’t care
AntJ
I really don’t. Neither is listening to the other, even though they could learn a lot. They’re fighting what they think the other person is, which is apparently not up for negotiation. They’re speaking incoherently and trying to seriously injure each other. They’re entirely out of control and won’t stop at least until one is unconscious. Despite Sal running after Ethan to prove that she can de-escalate, and Amber afraid that her rage would be destructive unless she let off steam, they both lost all their progress. They are the worst versions of themselves, the versions they thought they could escape. They are blazing frenzies of rage, immune to logic and opposing viewpoints. They are two fireworks colliding head on.
And they are the same. In the original flashback, Ethan told Amber that she and Sal were the same. For awhile it looked like Amber was what Sal had overcome, and that she needed to get over her anger to get on with her life. But now, neither one is in control. All their anger was buried, and in fighting, they unearthed each other’s. And they’re equally powerful.
At the start of this storyline, I thought this confrontation would be a deep cathartic conversation. Instead, they’re shellacking each other, animals fighting to the death. Which is just as effective; they have an audience who knows why they have all this anger. When the haze of red blows over, they will see what they have done and they will have to pick up the pieces. Or maybe they won’t. Maybe they see the mess and convince themselves that like every other bad thing in their lives, it is the other one’s fault.
gangler
Sal has nothing to learn from Amber.
Trrebi981
And Amber has nothing to learn from Sal. They both lived very different lives. Neither is handling their situation properly. Both can’t let go. Both won’t learn. Period.
gangler
Sal is rehabilitated, so at a bare minimum Amber can learn that that’s possible. She goes on all day about how she’s a monster, as if that’s some immutable fact, like a warlock cursed her and now she must commit 1 act of violence a day regardless of how she might feel on the matter, and yet Sal hasn’t robbed any gas stations lately.
Maki
Yeah, because rehabilitated people chokeslam people all the time. That’s a thing they teach you in therapy. (Before you say she did in self defense, let me point out that Amber was 100% self absorbed, and this was a perfect chance for Sal to get away, instead she has decided to go all in into this debacle, because of #reasons)
gangler
You’re allowed to confront your violent stalker. That is not a sign that you are relapsing into old criminal habits.
Any law abiding citizen can be pushed to extremes if they’re harassed for months on end.
Maki
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Amber is in any way in the right here (As a matter of fact, I think she needs to spend some time in a mental hospital), but to denominate her a stalker is simpllfying the issue between them that really makes me love this storyline. Amber very clearly did not want this confrontation, it was Sal who initiated it. However, Amber’s deranged behavior did lead her to instigate other such confrontation in the past that would have primed Sal for this. However, considering Amber’s SEVERE mental issues (the kind that should really make people think if she really can live functionaly by herself), I dunno that she can be held responsible for all her actions that escalated this situation into this very messed up point.
Maki
My point however, is that at this point in the storyline, Sal should know that there is nothing to be gained in this conversation (she’s the only mentally sane one here) and should disengage. Instead, she continues to escalate this. Which denotes the exact behavioral pattern Marcie was on her case for. Her inability to just take the L, walk away, and maybe decide to change her approach.
gangler
Of course Amber didn’t want this confrontation. That’s why she wore a mask when she was violently stalking for months. Tough titties on that one.
gangler
Sorry, I could’ve phrased that better. Amber didn’t want this confrontation, but this was in no way a sign that she was planning on ceasing to violently stalk Sal, or a sign that she no longer needed to be dealt with.
She hasn’t wanted the confrontation since day 1. Hence the mask. Sal’s giving it to her regardless, you know, on account of the violent stalking.
Maki
Considering they had conversations with each other where they acted friendly towards the other, and how Amber was freaking out about not wanting this confrontation literally seconds before it started. I’d say it was pretty obvious that before this fight started, Amber did not want it, at least not the side of her that was in control. Until Sal approached and literally threw down the gauntlet. They both launched into the fight with gusto, but it was clearly Sal who goaded her into it. Not saying she does not have a reason to, but at this instance Sal is as much in control of the situation as Amber is. And she’s just letting rage take over. Neither of them is justified in the way they’re handling this situation even if Amber’s behavior has been more persistent and harmful. Sal still has had many opportunities to bow out and has taken none of them.
gangler
Of course Sal is in control of the situation.
She actually knows who she’s dealing with for the first time since this has started.
Confronting her violent stalker is still not a sign that she is relapsing into old criminal habits. Any law abiding citizen would likely do the same in her shoes. She has been pushed to extremes by months of harassment.
Amber needs to be dealt with, and the police have proven ineffectual with her in the past.
Maki
Again, at this point qualifying Amber and Sal’s relationship as her simply being a violent stalker greatly simplifies their relationship and reduces it.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/01-flyin-to-the-red/goin-down/
Here are 3 strips where they show the two of them actually cooperating towards a common goal and having real conversations. And it was a cooperation that they both agreed upon, clearly. So, it’s a lot more complex than Amber being simply a violent stalker. That being said, I am in agreement Amber needs to be dealt with. She’s fucking dangerous to herself and others. I’m just saying, Sal is not the one to do it, and she’s not justified in what she’s doing here or how she’s doing it. Not one bit.
gangler
Oh wow! Sal played nice with Amber for a moment! I guess she was asking for it! *eyeroll*
Maki
That’s not at all what I’m saying, I’m saying they were more than just stalker/stalkee. I’m also saying confronting your stalker is fine, choke-slamming them is assault.
Tan
Just as a note, the stalking has been less than a month. Their first real (non-flashback) encounter (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/03-up-all-night-to-get-vengeance/my-share/) took place roughly 3 in-universe weeks ago.
Adam Black
I think all the comments about Amber being the violent stalker, ha s given people Amnesia that Sal chose to escalate. Sal decided to make it a fight. Sal threw the first punch.
Vukodlak
Sal had no interest in confronting her stalker until she realized it was the same girl who stabbed her in the hand years ago. So Gangler your entire argument is moot. Sal STARTING the fight here has nothing to do with what happened at college but what happend at the gas station years ago.
If Amber hadn’t been there that day Sal still would have been arrested. And her parents still would have practically disowned her. The only difference in her life would be a lack of a physical scar on her hand.
BBCC
That’s not entirely true, Vukodiak. Sal definitely wanted to confront AG before now. It just ended up getting overshadowed by Ryan and as they worked together on that, they were making peace. And then she found out that the person who stalked and harassed her was also the girl who stabbed her without any sort of legal or parental consequences (although her dad took out his embarrassment on her mom, because he’s an abusive tool, though Sal couldn’t have known that) and who she just found kissing her brother the other day. That is a lot to take in, and yeah, Sal feels more than a little manipulated. That’s what she was yelling about before they BOTH agreed they wanted to fight. It’s a culmination of all her problems with Amber (and her problems with AG, though Sal doesn’t know they’re separate).
Sal wouldn’t be disabled if Amber hadn’t been there, that’s true, but her problems with Amber are related to things Amber actually did, the same way Amber’s problems with Sal are related to things Sal actually did.
AntJ
I think Sal DID learn to control it, but finding out the truth about Amber caused her to lapse severely
Alanari
Not really, actually. She learned to listen to people who pull her back. Marcie, mostly. This kind of involves cooling down when requested to do so, but she never learned to identify situations that can and should be solved peacefully.
Better than nothing but not the same as having control.
Maki
Everyone has something to learn from one another. Even if it is from their mistakes.