Oh this kinda head-game bullshit was the best part of the relationships with my ex’s. Specifically, that it resulted in them being ex’s. It’s only two of the few people I’ve been with, but those two are the only ones that worked so hard at being ex’s. And no mistake, I wasn’t smart enough to end the relationships earlier. But when the second one dumped me to try and teach me a lesson, at least I recovered enough dignity, in the three days before they offered to take me back, to firmly reject that offer. Sadly they’re doing this shit to our kid, and the courts don’t give a damn.
RoyanRannedos
Part of growing up is moving on from seeing people as a collection of data for your biases. Walky is Walkyish, and if Asher is too Walkyish, then it can’t be good. It’s why Billie became Jennifer in the first place: she can’t grow as Billie, she has to reinvent and become another static personality. When there’s enough danger in not being perfect (and I think Jennifer was raised with plenty of that,) it feels dangerous to accept anyone that deviates from her preconceived notions.
It reflects in that court situation too: they’re only out to make a one-time judgement, but that judgement doesn’t guarantee an authentic family relationship. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Thanks for the support. ? Family court is where the wild west never left. alt: You get more sense, logic, and consistency from a magic 8-ball.
yeah while cigarettes are kinda ‘accepted’ by society even if frowned upon and slightly worse than drinking since second hand smoke would bother ppl, any partner that encourages you to pick up a knowingly bad habit isn’t a good sign
I mean, he does appear to have been involved in a mob hit, so I’m not quite sure about that “deserves better” bit just yet. Jennifer is pretty garbage, but not quite on that level.
Psychie
Eh, criminal behavior, or even just shitty behavior in general, does deserve justice/retribution/comeuppance of some kind, but being in a toxic relationship with a toxic person isn’t that. I don’t feel anybody “deserves” to be in a toxic relationship, like yeah if someone is toxic to you, you should be toxic right back to them, that’s just fair play, but not in the context of a relationship, and definitely not as punishment for bad behavior that you weren’t around for.
If he’s gonna be in a relationship at all, he deserves a better one than this, if only because anyone would. Like, what he really deserves is a jail cell for his literal crimes, but if he’s gonna date he doesn’t deserve to be with someone emotionally abusive like that because nobody deserves that.
Orson Smelles
Huh, I agree fiercely with like half of this, but am confused by some of the rest. I’m not sure there’s a situation where you *should* be toxic. There are plenty where it’s understandable or maybe permissible, but by definition isn’t toxic behavior a worse use of your lifespan than going and being in some other situation if there’s any way to do that? I’m pretty hesitant to take any pride in my petty or vindictive moments, even if the other person “deserved” it.
Orson Smelles
Christ on a bike, I spun the grav roulette so my comments wouldn’t all be accompanied by smug Danny-face. Clearly I have been punished for my hubris.
Thag Simmons
He probably deserves better than his mobster family, he seems like he’d be basically harmless without their looming presence
“No matter how hot the woman, someone somewhere is sick of her shit.” – Aonymous.
Stu
There was an old analogy where a man divorced his wife, and his friends were in disbelief over it. In response to the constant questions, he finally took off his shoe and held it up. “Look at this shoe – it looks wonderfully made, right? But not one of you can tell me where it pinches me.”
Decidedly Orthogonal
That is *beautifully* put.
That said, I’ve never actually had anyone question why my ex’s are. I guess should stop wearing shoes with no soul.
I mean I know its subjective and all but I wouldn’t class her as hot
Ryan
The characters class her as hot and cool regardless of our proclivities for Damn You Willis’ drawing style. Her hotness is canon.
Shadow Dreamer
Oh she’s absolutely a Unit. She’s a big girl, in the way where it’s a mix of muscle And fat, she’s got a chest that is both large and proportionate to her body, she’s got a pretty face, and, while she’s kind of a bongo about it, she DOES usually know what she’s talking about. All of that combines into a girl that you sort of want to just, hang around, at least, just to see what she Does.
BarerMender
She’s definitely hot. Not as hot as Amber, but hot. But wait. I’m stanning for the two most neurotic characters in the strip. Is it just me?
BarerMender
Also. Billy — I mean, Jennifer — has discovered she was in love with a person who doesn’t exist. She thought that was Asher, but now she realizes it isn’t, and she can’t go back. She shouldn’t have made it his fault, but she still has to let him go.
Mano308gts
She’s a recent former cheerleader (which almost exclusively means ‘fit and hot’), she’s part Asian, which in America means fetish-bait, and she’s got all the right curves in all the right places…
Yes, the character is categorically on the upper end of the attractiveness scale as measured by the body at large for American guys.
Maybe the same reason Walky is putting up with things unaddressed that really need to be addressed. They like to think of themselves as good boyfriends.
whenever the characters change their haircuts, its hard for me to visually reconcile them with their older selves (autism thing). but jennifer has never looked so much like billie than she does in panel 4
I kind of wonder a bit about this, how much of this is her reaction to the stunt he pulled the other day, and how much of this is Billie coming back/merging more and more with Jennifer.
Yeah, she literally hasn’t changed at all. I don’t understand not being able to defend this action, but being able able to defend her before when she’s been doing the same shit since day one.
Well, a mature, well-adjusted Jennifer/Billie wouldn’t really fit the premise of the strip; I’m not just a majority of the readers would find that version of the character that interesting; and I’m not sure Willis would enjoy writing her that much.
I can buy it, especially with the flashbacks that showed that the actual origin of “Billie”, and how it stuck with her, even if Walky himself doesn’t remember how it actually happened and didn’t know to correct her when she (seemingly intentionally) lied about it.
I don’t think she has any idea what she’s trying to accomplish. She’s just lashing out because she’s lost her sense of superiority and saying literally anything that makes her feel bigger, damn the consequences.
Also she feeds on fighting and drama, it makes her feel passionate and alive. Giving her what she wants isn’t giving her what she wants, because she wants to fight.
It’s a problem for ever being in a healthy relationship, but, she’s into unhealthy relationships where they’re both poison and everything’s very dire. Whatcha gonna do.
Yep, she admitted in front of Asher that she wants drama injected into her veins. Sals left her alone since trying to confront her about Asher and she’s been craving another does of superiority flavored drama since.
Right, this is the thing the storyline is actually trying to navigate towards — Jennifer cannot be happy because she doesn’t actually like herself and so what feels the most comfortable for her is conflict and chaos. She pushes Asher away not for the good reasons she *should* push him away, but because she doesn’t know what she wants and feels like something is wrong if things are doing well.
Not really.
We know more of what he’s done than they do, so it makes sense for them to be ok with him before we are.
GholaHalleck
I mean, he made sure of amber’s dad. That’s worth at *least* one good noodle sticker.
not someone else
I feel like the comment section knows a lot less about what he actually did or did not do than the gestalt of us thinks we do.
cbwroses
We know he was involved in the kidnapping; that part is confirmed.
And it looks like he was given a heads up about Blaine’s murder after it was completed.
None of the characters in the story know this.
So yes, we know more than the characters do.
not someone else
Yeah, but a lot of people seem to be under the impression that we know details about him doing stuff that wasn’t onscreen, why he did it, and what that means for his relationship with his family.
Mark
+1
Sirksome
We do have details though. We know he lied to Sal about not being involved with his criminal family. We know he stole money from his grandpa to attend IU.
This is why Blaine was able to blackmail him. Him getting a text near the time a dirty cop assassinated Blaine implies a reaffirmation of his connection to the mob. It’s pretty easy math.
I am willing to let bygones be bygones on calling the cops, like it was shitty but he was a kid.
I’m more side-eyeing his involvement in what happened with Blaine (even if I am glad the bastard’s dead) and experiencing a lot of pessimism about his association with Raidah.
V
You know, I thought Asher was friends with Raidah because they were both the same kind of clout-chasing manipulative asshole, but then I went digging through the /Asher tag to try and get a feel for his actual personality, past all the bad things we’ve heard about him, and I found this page, which I think is implying that Asher is being manipulated by Raidah. Like, the way her demeanor changes when Asher joins the conversation… the contrast between what she really thinks of Jennifer and what she’s letting Asher think she thinks of Jennifer is the punchline. IDK, I think… I think I might be an Asher defender now?
202 thoughts on “Hard”
Ana Chronistic
damned if you do, slammed if you don’t
EmTaya
I dont like feeling bad for Asher but I feel bad for Asher
Masumi
Same, honestly.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Oh this kinda head-game bullshit was the best part of the relationships with my ex’s. Specifically, that it resulted in them being ex’s. It’s only two of the few people I’ve been with, but those two are the only ones that worked so hard at being ex’s. And no mistake, I wasn’t smart enough to end the relationships earlier. But when the second one dumped me to try and teach me a lesson, at least I recovered enough dignity, in the three days before they offered to take me back, to firmly reject that offer. Sadly they’re doing this shit to our kid, and the courts don’t give a damn.
RoyanRannedos
Part of growing up is moving on from seeing people as a collection of data for your biases. Walky is Walkyish, and if Asher is too Walkyish, then it can’t be good. It’s why Billie became Jennifer in the first place: she can’t grow as Billie, she has to reinvent and become another static personality. When there’s enough danger in not being perfect (and I think Jennifer was raised with plenty of that,) it feels dangerous to accept anyone that deviates from her preconceived notions.
It reflects in that court situation too: they’re only out to make a one-time judgement, but that judgement doesn’t guarantee an authentic family relationship. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Thanks for the support. ? Family court is where the wild west never left. alt: You get more sense, logic, and consistency from a magic 8-ball.
Angel
yeah while cigarettes are kinda ‘accepted’ by society even if frowned upon and slightly worse than drinking since second hand smoke would bother ppl, any partner that encourages you to pick up a knowingly bad habit isn’t a good sign
Pergola
But what-about second hand drinking?
jflb96
Isn’t that what got one of the drummers from Spinal Tap?
Stu
Agreed – he honestly deserves better, and Jennifer needs to get her head out of her ass.
Xaeon
I mean, he does appear to have been involved in a mob hit, so I’m not quite sure about that “deserves better” bit just yet. Jennifer is pretty garbage, but not quite on that level.
Psychie
Eh, criminal behavior, or even just shitty behavior in general, does deserve justice/retribution/comeuppance of some kind, but being in a toxic relationship with a toxic person isn’t that. I don’t feel anybody “deserves” to be in a toxic relationship, like yeah if someone is toxic to you, you should be toxic right back to them, that’s just fair play, but not in the context of a relationship, and definitely not as punishment for bad behavior that you weren’t around for.
If he’s gonna be in a relationship at all, he deserves a better one than this, if only because anyone would. Like, what he really deserves is a jail cell for his literal crimes, but if he’s gonna date he doesn’t deserve to be with someone emotionally abusive like that because nobody deserves that.
Orson Smelles
Huh, I agree fiercely with like half of this, but am confused by some of the rest. I’m not sure there’s a situation where you *should* be toxic. There are plenty where it’s understandable or maybe permissible, but by definition isn’t toxic behavior a worse use of your lifespan than going and being in some other situation if there’s any way to do that? I’m pretty hesitant to take any pride in my petty or vindictive moments, even if the other person “deserved” it.
Orson Smelles
Christ on a bike, I spun the grav roulette so my comments wouldn’t all be accompanied by smug Danny-face. Clearly I have been punished for my hubris.
Thag Simmons
He probably deserves better than his mobster family, he seems like he’d be basically harmless without their looming presence
wilddeath
He had my pity the moment he started dating the human trash fire that was jennifer.
Opus the Poet
Jennifer was good back when she was in a relationship with Ruth, at least she was caring, but went straight downhill after they broke up.
nicoleandmaggie
yeah
bejouled
Genuinely, after the way Jennifer treated him, why IS Asher even trying?
MM
I mean, there’s only so much I can blame him for needing to smoke.
DailyBrad
Jennifer’s hot, if you want the legit answer.
Freezer
“No matter how hot the woman, someone somewhere is sick of her shit.” – Aonymous.
Stu
There was an old analogy where a man divorced his wife, and his friends were in disbelief over it. In response to the constant questions, he finally took off his shoe and held it up. “Look at this shoe – it looks wonderfully made, right? But not one of you can tell me where it pinches me.”
Decidedly Orthogonal
That is *beautifully* put.
That said, I’ve never actually had anyone question why my ex’s are. I guess should stop wearing shoes with no soul.
bejouled
Ah, yes. As an ace person I often forget other people often endure unpleasantness in exchange for access to hotness.
shrub
Is she?
I mean I know its subjective and all but I wouldn’t class her as hot
Ryan
The characters class her as hot and cool regardless of our proclivities for Damn You Willis’ drawing style. Her hotness is canon.
Shadow Dreamer
Oh she’s absolutely a Unit. She’s a big girl, in the way where it’s a mix of muscle And fat, she’s got a chest that is both large and proportionate to her body, she’s got a pretty face, and, while she’s kind of a bongo about it, she DOES usually know what she’s talking about. All of that combines into a girl that you sort of want to just, hang around, at least, just to see what she Does.
BarerMender
She’s definitely hot. Not as hot as Amber, but hot. But wait. I’m stanning for the two most neurotic characters in the strip. Is it just me?
BarerMender
Also. Billy — I mean, Jennifer — has discovered she was in love with a person who doesn’t exist. She thought that was Asher, but now she realizes it isn’t, and she can’t go back. She shouldn’t have made it his fault, but she still has to let him go.
Mano308gts
She’s a recent former cheerleader (which almost exclusively means ‘fit and hot’), she’s part Asian, which in America means fetish-bait, and she’s got all the right curves in all the right places…
Yes, the character is categorically on the upper end of the attractiveness scale as measured by the body at large for American guys.
Plaaaa
Sliding back into old habits is really quite effortless.
HueSatLight
Maybe the same reason Walky is putting up with things unaddressed that really need to be addressed. They like to think of themselves as good boyfriends.
Caro
whenever the characters change their haircuts, its hard for me to visually reconcile them with their older selves (autism thing). but jennifer has never looked so much like billie than she does in panel 4
Sirksome
I’m usually a Jen defender but can’t really get behind this one. And that’s even knowing Asher can’t be trusted.
Clif
Hey, it’s not like she’s self-destructive or anything.
DailyBrad
I kind of wonder a bit about this, how much of this is her reaction to the stunt he pulled the other day, and how much of this is Billie coming back/merging more and more with Jennifer.
Bryy
Billie never left, so.
Jodka
Yeah, she literally hasn’t changed at all. I don’t understand not being able to defend this action, but being able able to defend her before when she’s been doing the same shit since day one.
Ed Callahan
Well, a mature, well-adjusted Jennifer/Billie wouldn’t really fit the premise of the strip; I’m not just a majority of the readers would find that version of the character that interesting; and I’m not sure Willis would enjoy writing her that much.
TrueVCU
I really don’t understand the gaslight job Jen is trying to pull here
Doctor_Who
She can’t be attracted to a guy she knows is actually like Walky because then she’d have to admit she’s attracted to Walky.
DailyBrad
I can buy it, especially with the flashbacks that showed that the actual origin of “Billie”, and how it stuck with her, even if Walky himself doesn’t remember how it actually happened and didn’t know to correct her when she (seemingly intentionally) lied about it.
Nono
She’s “punishing” him for whatever perceived infractions.
Jamie
I don’t think she has any idea what she’s trying to accomplish. She’s just lashing out because she’s lost her sense of superiority and saying literally anything that makes her feel bigger, damn the consequences.
Leorale
Also she feeds on fighting and drama, it makes her feel passionate and alive. Giving her what she wants isn’t giving her what she wants, because she wants to fight.
It’s a problem for ever being in a healthy relationship, but, she’s into unhealthy relationships where they’re both poison and everything’s very dire. Whatcha gonna do.
Archieve
Yep, she admitted in front of Asher that she wants drama injected into her veins. Sals left her alone since trying to confront her about Asher and she’s been craving another does of superiority flavored drama since.
DashWallkick
Right, this is the thing the storyline is actually trying to navigate towards — Jennifer cannot be happy because she doesn’t actually like herself and so what feels the most comfortable for her is conflict and chaos. She pushes Asher away not for the good reasons she *should* push him away, but because she doesn’t know what she wants and feels like something is wrong if things are doing well.
Needfuldoer
She doesn’t know who she is herself, so the concept of someone being happy by being themselves is foreign to her.
Tan
The shine has worn off, and she certainly can’t admit that it was a superficial connection (at least on her part) in the first place, so.
Mr. Random
Can she just not be in a toxic relationship for 5 minutes?
Yumi
Her relationship with herself is toxic.
So, no.
Doctor_Who
JenniferXBillie: the most toxic ship of all.
hastur
Ah, you mean the Good Ship Jillie?
Jamie
Billifer.
HueSatLight
Buttifer Billieswurp
Sirksome
This is also her kink too. She wants a toxic relationship.
Theluxland
She will never be happy, there is so much to self-sabotage constantly
FaerwenOfValenwood
Jen, sweetie pie honey baby darling, I kinda think you’re the one trying a bit too hard
DarkoNeko
…siiiigh
Why am I feeling sympathy for the guy that betrayed Sal back when
thakoru
It’s weird that the comment section’s grudge against Asher seems to have outlived that of either Walkerton twin.
cbwroses
Not really.
We know more of what he’s done than they do, so it makes sense for them to be ok with him before we are.
GholaHalleck
I mean, he made sure of amber’s dad. That’s worth at *least* one good noodle sticker.
not someone else
I feel like the comment section knows a lot less about what he actually did or did not do than the gestalt of us thinks we do.
cbwroses
We know he was involved in the kidnapping; that part is confirmed.
And it looks like he was given a heads up about Blaine’s murder after it was completed.
None of the characters in the story know this.
So yes, we know more than the characters do.
not someone else
Yeah, but a lot of people seem to be under the impression that we know details about him doing stuff that wasn’t onscreen, why he did it, and what that means for his relationship with his family.
Mark
+1
Sirksome
We do have details though. We know he lied to Sal about not being involved with his criminal family. We know he stole money from his grandpa to attend IU.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-10/01-birthday-pursuit/wiggly/
This is why Blaine was able to blackmail him. Him getting a text near the time a dirty cop assassinated Blaine implies a reaffirmation of his connection to the mob. It’s pretty easy math.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-10/04-is-a-song-forever/blammo/
What more do we need to know? We shouldn’t trust Asher.
thejeff
I don’t think he lied to Sal – at least not there.
He was (and probably still is?) trying to get out, but Blaine dragged him back in. How far back in is another question.
HueSatLight
They don’t know he almost got Walky killed. Sal knows he’s still dangerous in the bad way, just not the specifics.
DailyBrad
I am willing to let bygones be bygones on calling the cops, like it was shitty but he was a kid.
I’m more side-eyeing his involvement in what happened with Blaine (even if I am glad the bastard’s dead) and experiencing a lot of pessimism about his association with Raidah.
V
You know, I thought Asher was friends with Raidah because they were both the same kind of clout-chasing manipulative asshole, but then I went digging through the /Asher tag to try and get a feel for his actual personality, past all the bad things we’ve heard about him, and I found this page, which I think is implying that Asher is being manipulated by Raidah. Like, the way her demeanor changes when Asher joins the conversation… the contrast between what she really thinks of Jennifer and what she’s letting Asher think she thinks of Jennifer is the punchline. IDK, I think… I think I might be an Asher defender now?