Her TRUST had to be earned, though. If not for Joyce’s enormous personal growth since starting college, it’s unlikely she’d know she had a biological sister, because Jocelyne wouldn’t have felt safe telling her
Is true, my point being she feels personally guilty for not having been the kind of person her sister could trust, when it’s down to pervasive, pervasive circumstances which aren’t really her fault.
Heck given that going to University and collecting sisters is how Joyce was even able to break free of her bigoted cult and her indoctrination as much as she has, as sad as it is, getting to know Jocelyn as her real sister now in *hindsight* was probably the only realistic way it was gonna happen at all ;-;
Mr.Morningstar
Agreed, joyce has primarily broken put of the hateful upbringing ginger she was taught.
If jocelyn told ber at the start of this comic she’d have had an entirely different reaction.
Mr.Morningstar
I’m just going to cry over these weird ass typos and auto corrects.
Michael Steamweed
Figuring “put” is “out”; that’s easy enough. Can’t tell what “ginger” was supposed to be. 🙂
Decidedly Orthogonal
ber is her. I think “hateful upbringing ginger” is just Morningstar hating on us redheads.
Yes, but Becky had the almost exactly the same upbringing and still managed not to fully buy into the bigoted stuff. While yeah, it’s no shock Joyce ended up how she did and she’s done an incredible job climbing her way out of that muck, there still was a non-trivial chunk of her life when she would not have been safe for Jocelyne to come out to. Hell, even BECKY didn’t come out to her until her entire life had been upended and she had literally no one else to turn to
For someone as caring as Joyce who loves her friends as hard as she does, it’s no doubt an unavoidably painful thing to realize, even if she doesn’t blame herself for anything she couldn’t control. Which to me makes it all the more admirable that she’s still choosing to face it and make sure she’s doing everything she can to fix what had made her unsafe to her sister in the past
thejeff
It kind of bothers me that not only did Becky apparently manage to avoid any of the bigoted stuff completely, but we didn’t even get to see her reaction and any minor struggles she might have had. Or insight into why she didn’t.
I did like the idea of the last couple days that Joe has some hangups here. It doesn’t leave Joyce as the only one who isn’t instantly accepting and without traces of prejudice (other than actual villains of course.)
Bysmerian
So if I were to guess? Becky clearly has faith. But because her religion vis-a-vis the church of her childhood rejects her and what she is (i.e. queer), she has more or less *had* to reject a lot of the more hateful bits in order to square the circle of her personal identity and her connection to God.
Someone who’s already trying their best doesn’t need to “earn” having a sibling. She’s not obligated to immediately get to having the best possible opinions on everything.
Alexander Hammil
It’s not about effort, it’s about whether or not she’s actually safe to come out to yet. It’s not an abused dog’s fault it was raised to bite, but you still have to be wary around it until it’s been retrained. That’s not a punishment for the dog, either — giving people or dogs the space to grow or heal helps keep BOTH of you safe.
Also, a lot of people don’t tell their family first when they come out. Hell, most of us probably don’t tell our family first. Why? Because the stakes are higher. If you lose a friend, that’s not great, but it’s not the worst thing in the world. Being rejected by family? That suuuuuuucks. Ask me how I know.
So, coming out to Dina and Becky first? Very low stakes, and very little chance of being rejected. Low risk, high reward. It’s pretty simple, really.
It’s understandable that family isn’t first, but it’s normally your own friends, not your sister’s best friend. That’s the part that’s a bit weird.
apigeonslife
I don’t really see it being weird! She would have also grown up with Becky being a friend too and a familiar safe person. Having someone like that have already come out would have told Jocelyne that that’s a person who is going to be okay to tell because they’re going to Get It.
thejeff
Maybe, but Becky’s a lot younger and a lot closer to Joyce than to Jocelyne. That’s what makes it weird.
It’s not about telling your friends before your family, it’s telling your sister’s best friend before telling her.
Devin
Taken in isolation sure, but the circumstances make a difference. Given that Jocelyne still didn’t know how Joyce would react, but being easily confident that Becky and Dina would take it well, they could be relied on to be friendly voices if need be, and potentially also be able to give Jocelyne insight on whether or not Joyce was ready to hear it.
Nono
Becky also just had her own big dramatic coming out. So yeah she’s about as experienced as Jocelyne when it comes to coming out.
Sure there’s an age gap, but I’m not surprised Becky is a bridge between ‘relatable’ and ‘familiar’.
Mano308gts
Fwiw, there’s absolutely no evidence anywhere in the comic regarding how many, or which, friends were told first. That we see Becky being told first does not mean that Becky’s the first, it means that Becky’s the first we are privy to… Jocelyn could well be out to a large circle of personal friends, and *is* out to a certain online circle, *and* has talked with Ethan about this in the past… Possibly even before talking to Becky (I forget the exact timeline).
I mean, Jocelyn would probably go, “Joyce, it’s not that I didn’t trust you to love and accept me after Becky. Before too with a lot of confusion. It’s that I worried you’d tell mom and she’d have me kidnapped or murdered.”
There likely could also have been an element of Jocelyne being afraid of how telling Joyce might change their relationship in unforseeable ways even if Joyce was accepting and discreet
Would’ve made telling Becky a lot easier simply because she’s not as close to her, so shaking up that relationship isn’t nearly as anxiety-inducing
She might have also worried about the strain she’d be putting Joyce under. After all, pre-college and first semester Joyce had a very difficult time with lying and defying her parents. And Jocelyn likely did not want to put Joyce in that sort of a bind.
Yes. Practically the only area of my life where I’m NOT gloriously, unashamedly out is around my own biological relatives, because they remain the most transphobic people that I know. So, because even a terrible relationship is better than no relationship at all, when we visit them, I wear exclusively male-coded clothes and no make-up. Even my church is a place where I can be more myself than that.
Have a feeling joe is gonna catch some mental/emotional pain when he’s been doing his best to be better than e was when that last wa made he was a different person
I honestly don’t think that’s how she’s taking this. It seems more that she’s grappling with the guilt of not reaching the point of earning Jocelyne’s trust earlier. She seems (mostly) past how the revelations made HER feel and is more beating herself up about how she made JOSS feel.
it’s still the reactionary fundamentalist mentality, in which the reward for doing good comes directly from God and other authority for passing tests of integrity and showing that you’ve “stayed on the path”
but here Joyce must understand that the reward for doing good isn’t about “proving herself worthy” as an individual, but about making long-term collective efforts towards a more inclusive society for the sake of her sister and thousands of others being able to be themselves and be safe — that the natural result of our good actions over time IS the reward.
I think what would be “earned” here is Jocelyne’s trust, which is an essential element of sisterhood.
But I would also acknowledge that Jocelyne’s coming out to Joyce was more about Jocelyne being ready than Joyce earning Jocelyne’s trust.
Alanari
Their dad found out/was told, that’s why she came to Joyce. She wanted to tell her in person.
On the other hand, Joyce telling Jocelyne that their dad was fine with Becky might be the reason she came out to him. That’s a kind of trust, too.
Honey, give Joss a little grace. First she had to realize and accept it for herself AND get to a place she was comfortable telling ANYONE. Given your parents, that probably didn’t happen until she was on her own and financially independent. She’s not much older than you – that was probably very recently.
The important thing is you got there and became someone she could trust when she was ready.
I see this not as her not giving Jocelyne grace, but as her not giving herself grace. Joyce holds herself to a high standard and it looks like she’s blaming herself for the perceived lack of trust. Jocelyne clearly loves her and trust her, even before she knew just how much her little sister had changed. Joyce has a lot of guilt and anger towards her past self and the coming out is just bringing those thoughts to the forefront.
In this case I think it’s Joyce unintentionally not giving Joss grace because she is very much not giving herself grace. She thinks the best of everyone else and the worst of herself.
Hazel
She hadn’t said anything to Jocelyne about her thoughts yet though, only voicing them to Joe. I can see her probably apologising soon (maybe this visit, maybe in a future phone call) for not being someone to rely on and being told to stop being so hard on herself. For all her changes, Joyce has always had extremely high expectations on being good and is probably something she will always have to work through.
BBCC
What I mean is her word choice here is unintentionally framing it as Jocelyne doing this because of not trusting her. Maybe slack or credit would be a better word, but I don’t think that’s what it boils down to on Joss’ end. I think this was more about Joss’ own confidence vs trusting Joyce. And I think you’re right, that’ll be made clear sooner or later.
Hazel
Both the good and bad part of the comment section is that we are all talking about the current strip when there is so much more ahead that we don’t know. It can be chaotic but also fun. Reading people’s different opinions on things can be really interesting!
BBCC
Absolutely! I often enjoy seeing what people think, even if I see it differently.
eh, I reckon the “starting point” of development like this is always completely arbitrary, no less than where you place the zero point of a coordinate grid for measuring changes in height and gravitational potential energy XD
Nymph
You and I are reading different comics, I think. She’s been solidly developing for the entire run of the comic. Sometimes forward, sometimes backwards or sideways, but always moving.
Since she became an Atheist, it was evident that obstacles would be present.
And what happens…
That in this comments section a rather peculiar dynamic emerged, which is “Joyce is right and her friends don’t support her, she deserves real friends.”
That was day after day, in every strip, and that’s exactly why I couldn’t take Joyce’s trial seriously, however, when she finally recognized that she had been an idiot and that she would do her best to be impeccable in her words when To address Dina, there is note of sincerity in her.
But now that Jocelyn is here, I consider that the starting point begins here.
Nymph
Like I said, that all sounds like development, it’s just not all positive development. That’s how growth and change works. I generally disagree with your point here, but you can feel how you feel about it!
True, but I think Jocelyne’s child drawings are haunting her right now. Joe even mentioned it not long ago to be sure she (and us) are still remembering.
…honestly, I don’t see this as a healthy mindset by Joyce.
She’s had to deal with a lot. And that’s before she even arrived on campus. The progress is real and important and she’s always trying, that’s what counts.
But also… Joyce is falling back into this “how does it relate to me” trap. I get why, she’s dealing with a lot and having to question a lot of stuff, and that is about her.
But Jocelyne told Dina and Becky because she was confident and comfortable that those two would be super supportive and welcoming. She makes that decision for her, and who she’s hesitant on shouldn’t be seen as judgement, its always going to feel like a risk.
The movie “Happiest Season”, which came out a few years ago on Hulu I guess, I’m not the biggest fan of. It’s a little simplistic and a little sappy and a lot “MUST RAM IN HAPPY ENDING AT ALL COSTS”, because Christmas movie, gotta deal with the genre. But the scene they had, talking about coming out and how scary it is, its really stuck to me, because it does nail just how terrifying that can be, even with those you’re certain love you.
Blegh. This strip has too many feels, I need to go shoot some demons or something >_>.
Thing is, the way she’s relating it back to herself is taking a self-reflective form, and this level of self-awareness is a huge character development for Joyce. The reason she was told after Becky and Dina was about her, and whether or not she was reliably a safe person to tell.
She’s acknowledging that and mourning it a little, which is a perfectly reasonable reaction and feeling to have. As long as she manages to avoid spiraling, this is excellent groundwork for continued growth.
I’m just gonna say I do really like this conversation they’re having.
I remember when I was a teen I went to a convention and ran into my best friend who with other friends. One of them offhandedly asked him something about dating boys and I felt super out of the loop and asked “Oh, you’re gay?” and he was just like “oh, yeah.”
And like I was happy for him, being out and unashamed but also part of me felt really left out. Here was an entire group of people who knew he was gay like it was common knowledge and I was left out. I always suspected he might have been gay but as far as he had told me he wasn’t. I couldn’t help but wonder if I hadn’t made him feel like he couldn’t have been honest with me and since I considered him my best friend I felt really bad. So I tried to make it really overtly clear how cool I am with him being gay and stuff. Probably stressed myself out much like Joyce is doing right now.
Yeah, it’s hard not to be a little insecure when you feel like the last person to learn something that might be sensitive about someone you care about. All you can do is try to be gentle with yourself and remember that it probably isn’t a lack of trust.
For me on a different perspective, a friend of mine in college was coming out to people.
I was one of the middle folks who was told, but I wasn’t really in the loop of who knew what when, so I was always stressed about accidentally letting something slip at the wrong time.
Things wound up going fine. It was acknowledged weird with some of the last friends told because “I’m sure they’ll be fine with it, but, well, they actually go to church, so I dunno.” No issues on that front.
I do hope things went better than he feared they would when he told his parents. We lost touch after college, though he and his husband are married now. He was worried about winding up in a, well, in a Becky situation.
There’s an important point here, about giving people potentially dangerous secrets to keep for one. When you’re such a friend, treasure the trust you’ve been given; when you’re the one, treasure the friends whom you can trust that far.
Speaking as a gay person, in my experience, you tell the people who matter to you the most last. Because it’s so much harder to face the fear of their rejection over anyone else’s. Even if you’re 99.9% certain they’re going to accept you, you’ll never be 100% certain. And the 0.1% chance can be paralysing. And I think if he was really serious about hiding it from you, he would’ve told his other friends not to mention it to you.
Iveexperienced this dynamic with myself. O can out myself to strangers and casual friends, but being upfront with my parents and siblings? Much harder.
210 thoughts on “High road”
NGPZ
No Joyce, it’s not about “earning” a sister, you deserve her for reals. T_T
It’s about people only really being able to be themselves once we’re in environments where we’re not violently persecuted.
Armadillo
I think the part of her that knows that is warring with the part of her that worries that she might have been part of the problem.
Michael Steamweed
She might be feeling that, if she’s not part of the solution, by default she is part of the problem, even if just a little.
Fart Captor
Her TRUST had to be earned, though. If not for Joyce’s enormous personal growth since starting college, it’s unlikely she’d know she had a biological sister, because Jocelyne wouldn’t have felt safe telling her
NGPZ
Is true, my point being she feels personally guilty for not having been the kind of person her sister could trust, when it’s down to pervasive, pervasive circumstances which aren’t really her fault.
Heck given that going to University and collecting sisters is how Joyce was even able to break free of her bigoted cult and her indoctrination as much as she has, as sad as it is, getting to know Jocelyn as her real sister now in *hindsight* was probably the only realistic way it was gonna happen at all ;-;
Mr.Morningstar
Agreed, joyce has primarily broken put of the hateful upbringing ginger she was taught.
If jocelyn told ber at the start of this comic she’d have had an entirely different reaction.
Mr.Morningstar
I’m just going to cry over these weird ass typos and auto corrects.
Michael Steamweed
Figuring “put” is “out”; that’s easy enough. Can’t tell what “ginger” was supposed to be. 🙂
Decidedly Orthogonal
ber is her. I think “hateful upbringing ginger” is just Morningstar hating on us redheads.
?I kid. I kid.
NGPZ
I always have auto-“correct” off,
because to be honest the whole concept is just a myth
Fart Captor
Yes, but Becky had the almost exactly the same upbringing and still managed not to fully buy into the bigoted stuff. While yeah, it’s no shock Joyce ended up how she did and she’s done an incredible job climbing her way out of that muck, there still was a non-trivial chunk of her life when she would not have been safe for Jocelyne to come out to. Hell, even BECKY didn’t come out to her until her entire life had been upended and she had literally no one else to turn to
For someone as caring as Joyce who loves her friends as hard as she does, it’s no doubt an unavoidably painful thing to realize, even if she doesn’t blame herself for anything she couldn’t control. Which to me makes it all the more admirable that she’s still choosing to face it and make sure she’s doing everything she can to fix what had made her unsafe to her sister in the past
thejeff
It kind of bothers me that not only did Becky apparently manage to avoid any of the bigoted stuff completely, but we didn’t even get to see her reaction and any minor struggles she might have had. Or insight into why she didn’t.
I did like the idea of the last couple days that Joe has some hangups here. It doesn’t leave Joyce as the only one who isn’t instantly accepting and without traces of prejudice (other than actual villains of course.)
Bysmerian
So if I were to guess? Becky clearly has faith. But because her religion vis-a-vis the church of her childhood rejects her and what she is (i.e. queer), she has more or less *had* to reject a lot of the more hateful bits in order to square the circle of her personal identity and her connection to God.
Barf Ninjason
I mean, that’s not a biological sister, c’mon – the whole point of transgenderism is that identity can transcend biology
DJTsurugi
she probably does need to earn it, at least somewhat, Joyce has a lot of deprogramming to do, but look at this page, actual growth. ~<3
S.R.
Someone who’s already trying their best doesn’t need to “earn” having a sibling. She’s not obligated to immediately get to having the best possible opinions on everything.
Alexander Hammil
It’s not about effort, it’s about whether or not she’s actually safe to come out to yet. It’s not an abused dog’s fault it was raised to bite, but you still have to be wary around it until it’s been retrained. That’s not a punishment for the dog, either — giving people or dogs the space to grow or heal helps keep BOTH of you safe.
danimagoo
Also, a lot of people don’t tell their family first when they come out. Hell, most of us probably don’t tell our family first. Why? Because the stakes are higher. If you lose a friend, that’s not great, but it’s not the worst thing in the world. Being rejected by family? That suuuuuuucks. Ask me how I know.
So, coming out to Dina and Becky first? Very low stakes, and very little chance of being rejected. Low risk, high reward. It’s pretty simple, really.
thejeff
It’s understandable that family isn’t first, but it’s normally your own friends, not your sister’s best friend. That’s the part that’s a bit weird.
apigeonslife
I don’t really see it being weird! She would have also grown up with Becky being a friend too and a familiar safe person. Having someone like that have already come out would have told Jocelyne that that’s a person who is going to be okay to tell because they’re going to Get It.
thejeff
Maybe, but Becky’s a lot younger and a lot closer to Joyce than to Jocelyne. That’s what makes it weird.
It’s not about telling your friends before your family, it’s telling your sister’s best friend before telling her.
Devin
Taken in isolation sure, but the circumstances make a difference. Given that Jocelyne still didn’t know how Joyce would react, but being easily confident that Becky and Dina would take it well, they could be relied on to be friendly voices if need be, and potentially also be able to give Jocelyne insight on whether or not Joyce was ready to hear it.
Nono
Becky also just had her own big dramatic coming out. So yeah she’s about as experienced as Jocelyne when it comes to coming out.
Sure there’s an age gap, but I’m not surprised Becky is a bridge between ‘relatable’ and ‘familiar’.
Mano308gts
Fwiw, there’s absolutely no evidence anywhere in the comic regarding how many, or which, friends were told first. That we see Becky being told first does not mean that Becky’s the first, it means that Becky’s the first we are privy to… Jocelyn could well be out to a large circle of personal friends, and *is* out to a certain online circle, *and* has talked with Ethan about this in the past… Possibly even before talking to Becky (I forget the exact timeline).
Charles Phipps
I mean, Jocelyn would probably go, “Joyce, it’s not that I didn’t trust you to love and accept me after Becky. Before too with a lot of confusion. It’s that I worried you’d tell mom and she’d have me kidnapped or murdered.”
BBCC
Yeah, she probably figured the parents finding out would be a one way ticket to the troubled teen industry, the reparative therapy camp, or the grave.
Bryy
And given Carol’s indifference to people dying for the lord…..
Taffy
Maybe Carol should die for the Lord next, to prove how devout she is.
Fart Captor
There likely could also have been an element of Jocelyne being afraid of how telling Joyce might change their relationship in unforseeable ways even if Joyce was accepting and discreet
Would’ve made telling Becky a lot easier simply because she’s not as close to her, so shaking up that relationship isn’t nearly as anxiety-inducing
Freemage
She might have also worried about the strain she’d be putting Joyce under. After all, pre-college and first semester Joyce had a very difficult time with lying and defying her parents. And Jocelyn likely did not want to put Joyce in that sort of a bind.
thejeff
Though if it went badly with Becky that could have spilled over into Joyce finding out, so not entirely risk free.
PedanticJerkass
It’s probably more like Jocelyne would go, “Joyce, I tried to tell you, but you kept ignoring my calls.”
Charles Phipps
I feel like that is something that is a little too smooth an answer.
thejeff
Especially since Jocelyne explicitly said “Becky is trustworthy and can keep a secret.”
Halo St Etienne (they/them)
Yes. Practically the only area of my life where I’m NOT gloriously, unashamedly out is around my own biological relatives, because they remain the most transphobic people that I know. So, because even a terrible relationship is better than no relationship at all, when we visit them, I wear exclusively male-coded clothes and no make-up. Even my church is a place where I can be more myself than that.
DJTsurugi
considering events, a reasonable worry. ~<3
Sol
And then we just sidled on by and moved on to the real crux of the matter!
Amós Batista
OOF, the earning a sister is real thing. That was painful
Getsu
Have a feeling joe is gonna catch some mental/emotional pain when he’s been doing his best to be better than e was when that last wa made he was a different person
Nymph
So is everyone else.
Yeet
yeah I’d feel bad too
darkoneko
whether you “earned” it isn’t up to you, kiddo.
Zor
I honestly don’t think that’s how she’s taking this. It seems more that she’s grappling with the guilt of not reaching the point of earning Jocelyne’s trust earlier. She seems (mostly) past how the revelations made HER feel and is more beating herself up about how she made JOSS feel.
NGPZ
yeah like what’s with the “earning” shit anyway?
it’s still the reactionary fundamentalist mentality, in which the reward for doing good comes directly from God and other authority for passing tests of integrity and showing that you’ve “stayed on the path”
but here Joyce must understand that the reward for doing good isn’t about “proving herself worthy” as an individual, but about making long-term collective efforts towards a more inclusive society for the sake of her sister and thousands of others being able to be themselves and be safe — that the natural result of our good actions over time IS the reward.
Davus
I think what would be “earned” here is Jocelyne’s trust, which is an essential element of sisterhood.
But I would also acknowledge that Jocelyne’s coming out to Joyce was more about Jocelyne being ready than Joyce earning Jocelyne’s trust.
Alanari
Their dad found out/was told, that’s why she came to Joyce. She wanted to tell her in person.
On the other hand, Joyce telling Jocelyne that their dad was fine with Becky might be the reason she came out to him. That’s a kind of trust, too.
BBCC
Honey, give Joss a little grace. First she had to realize and accept it for herself AND get to a place she was comfortable telling ANYONE. Given your parents, that probably didn’t happen until she was on her own and financially independent. She’s not much older than you – that was probably very recently.
The important thing is you got there and became someone she could trust when she was ready.
Hazel
I see this not as her not giving Jocelyne grace, but as her not giving herself grace. Joyce holds herself to a high standard and it looks like she’s blaming herself for the perceived lack of trust. Jocelyne clearly loves her and trust her, even before she knew just how much her little sister had changed. Joyce has a lot of guilt and anger towards her past self and the coming out is just bringing those thoughts to the forefront.
BBCC
In this case I think it’s Joyce unintentionally not giving Joss grace because she is very much not giving herself grace. She thinks the best of everyone else and the worst of herself.
Hazel
She hadn’t said anything to Jocelyne about her thoughts yet though, only voicing them to Joe. I can see her probably apologising soon (maybe this visit, maybe in a future phone call) for not being someone to rely on and being told to stop being so hard on herself. For all her changes, Joyce has always had extremely high expectations on being good and is probably something she will always have to work through.
BBCC
What I mean is her word choice here is unintentionally framing it as Jocelyne doing this because of not trusting her. Maybe slack or credit would be a better word, but I don’t think that’s what it boils down to on Joss’ end. I think this was more about Joss’ own confidence vs trusting Joyce. And I think you’re right, that’ll be made clear sooner or later.
Hazel
Both the good and bad part of the comment section is that we are all talking about the current strip when there is so much more ahead that we don’t know. It can be chaotic but also fun. Reading people’s different opinions on things can be really interesting!
BBCC
Absolutely! I often enjoy seeing what people think, even if I see it differently.
Coatl
It is possible that here is finally the authentic starting point for Joyce’s development.
NGPZ
eh, I reckon the “starting point” of development like this is always completely arbitrary, no less than where you place the zero point of a coordinate grid for measuring changes in height and gravitational potential energy XD
Nymph
You and I are reading different comics, I think. She’s been solidly developing for the entire run of the comic. Sometimes forward, sometimes backwards or sideways, but always moving.
Coatl
Since she became an Atheist, it was evident that obstacles would be present.
And what happens…
That in this comments section a rather peculiar dynamic emerged, which is “Joyce is right and her friends don’t support her, she deserves real friends.”
That was day after day, in every strip, and that’s exactly why I couldn’t take Joyce’s trial seriously, however, when she finally recognized that she had been an idiot and that she would do her best to be impeccable in her words when To address Dina, there is note of sincerity in her.
But now that Jocelyn is here, I consider that the starting point begins here.
Nymph
Like I said, that all sounds like development, it’s just not all positive development. That’s how growth and change works. I generally disagree with your point here, but you can feel how you feel about it!
Coco
True, but I think Jocelyne’s child drawings are haunting her right now. Joe even mentioned it not long ago to be sure she (and us) are still remembering.
apricot
I do get where she’s coming from. I hope this doesn’t hurt Joe’s feelings, too.
Wraithy2773
…honestly, I don’t see this as a healthy mindset by Joyce.
She’s had to deal with a lot. And that’s before she even arrived on campus. The progress is real and important and she’s always trying, that’s what counts.
But also… Joyce is falling back into this “how does it relate to me” trap. I get why, she’s dealing with a lot and having to question a lot of stuff, and that is about her.
But Jocelyne told Dina and Becky because she was confident and comfortable that those two would be super supportive and welcoming. She makes that decision for her, and who she’s hesitant on shouldn’t be seen as judgement, its always going to feel like a risk.
The movie “Happiest Season”, which came out a few years ago on Hulu I guess, I’m not the biggest fan of. It’s a little simplistic and a little sappy and a lot “MUST RAM IN HAPPY ENDING AT ALL COSTS”, because Christmas movie, gotta deal with the genre. But the scene they had, talking about coming out and how scary it is, its really stuck to me, because it does nail just how terrifying that can be, even with those you’re certain love you.
Blegh. This strip has too many feels, I need to go shoot some demons or something >_>.
Coatl
At some point, Jocelyn will realize this, and will give Joyce the opportunity to dialogue with confidence.
Devin
Thing is, the way she’s relating it back to herself is taking a self-reflective form, and this level of self-awareness is a huge character development for Joyce. The reason she was told after Becky and Dina was about her, and whether or not she was reliably a safe person to tell.
She’s acknowledging that and mourning it a little, which is a perfectly reasonable reaction and feeling to have. As long as she manages to avoid spiraling, this is excellent groundwork for continued growth.
Zor
Ah, the magnificent duality of the real-as-hell severity of this strip… and the comedic sniper round of a one-liner in the alt text.
S+. No notes.
Yotomoe
I’m just gonna say I do really like this conversation they’re having.
I remember when I was a teen I went to a convention and ran into my best friend who with other friends. One of them offhandedly asked him something about dating boys and I felt super out of the loop and asked “Oh, you’re gay?” and he was just like “oh, yeah.”
And like I was happy for him, being out and unashamed but also part of me felt really left out. Here was an entire group of people who knew he was gay like it was common knowledge and I was left out. I always suspected he might have been gay but as far as he had told me he wasn’t. I couldn’t help but wonder if I hadn’t made him feel like he couldn’t have been honest with me and since I considered him my best friend I felt really bad. So I tried to make it really overtly clear how cool I am with him being gay and stuff. Probably stressed myself out much like Joyce is doing right now.
BBCC
Glad to see you comment again tonight, Yotomoe.
Yeah, it’s hard not to be a little insecure when you feel like the last person to learn something that might be sensitive about someone you care about. All you can do is try to be gentle with yourself and remember that it probably isn’t a lack of trust.
Lumino
It’s a perfectly normal reaction, to say “Was I hurting them? Was I sending messages that I wasn’t a good friend?”
What Joyce is going through now isn’t healthy, but it is 100% normal. I feel like she has enough good friends to come out OK on the other side.
Huttj
For me on a different perspective, a friend of mine in college was coming out to people.
I was one of the middle folks who was told, but I wasn’t really in the loop of who knew what when, so I was always stressed about accidentally letting something slip at the wrong time.
Things wound up going fine. It was acknowledged weird with some of the last friends told because “I’m sure they’ll be fine with it, but, well, they actually go to church, so I dunno.” No issues on that front.
I do hope things went better than he feared they would when he told his parents. We lost touch after college, though he and his husband are married now. He was worried about winding up in a, well, in a Becky situation.
Mark
There’s an important point here, about giving people potentially dangerous secrets to keep for one. When you’re such a friend, treasure the trust you’ve been given; when you’re the one, treasure the friends whom you can trust that far.
Ike
Speaking as a gay person, in my experience, you tell the people who matter to you the most last. Because it’s so much harder to face the fear of their rejection over anyone else’s. Even if you’re 99.9% certain they’re going to accept you, you’ll never be 100% certain. And the 0.1% chance can be paralysing. And I think if he was really serious about hiding it from you, he would’ve told his other friends not to mention it to you.
Plain Marie
Iveexperienced this dynamic with myself. O can out myself to strangers and casual friends, but being upfront with my parents and siblings? Much harder.
Suet