The far right? Why does everyone always assume the conservatives are consistently the enemy. Wasn’t LBJ the one who pushed his “guns and butter” policies, further entrenching us in Vietnam? Wasn’t it Jimmy Carter who crashed our economy and promoted the “crisis of confidence”, followed by the Iran hostage crisis (which we had to clean up with the Iran Contra scandal)?
This is the one complaint I have for this webcomic: there’s too much of this fascist liberal propaganda, comparing conservatives to fascists (which has been going on since at least the counter-culture movement of the 60s).
If the politics were taken out of the Ryan arc (which is more than reasonable, seeing how Ted Bundy gave OSU’s campus a run for it’s money).
Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of fundamentalist religious nuts and warhawks who wear Wal-Mart American flag t-shirts, and they tow an overly-simplified view of federalist, conservative, and libertarian positions. However, to outright attack anyone of a conservative bent is ridiculous.
Certainly, the story could be even more interesting if Joyce’s transformation as a growing, independent woman involved finding a blend of Judeo-Christian fundamentals, the Greek empirical philosophers, and elements across the political spectrum that fit her personal truth. Why not make her take a few philosophy courses?
Because today it’s conservatives who want to dump millions of people off of health care just to give rich people a tax break.
It’s conservatives who fought to block same sex marriage.
It’s conservatives who want to force transgender people to use the wrong bathroom, forbid them from competing in athletics while in school, and bar them from serving in the military.
It’s conservatives who maintain that the Constitution doesn’t protect against discrimination against LGBT people. They’re the ones voting down laws aimed at making that protection explicit.
It’s conservatives insisting that our law enforcement agencies and local police don’t need to change, despite all of the innocent people getting murdered by them, with the perpetrators going free because they have a badge.
It’s conservatives insisting we need to ban refugees and immigrants based on their religion, while insisting that it’s Christianity that’s under attack.
It’s conservatives who are declaring science itself as their enemy, because they want to keep their heads in the sand about climate change, happy to let future generations suffer. And because they want THEIR views on evolution and sex ed to be taught as fact.
Nobody is vilifying them. They’re doing it to themselves.
N0083rp00F
What health care? What the states has is mandatory Health Insurance.
Medicare is where the money should have gone instead of into the pockets of the middlemen [aka the 0.1%]
Peoples Lives are literally being held ransom by Speculative Investors these days.
Also the whole “It’s conservatives” thing …. ugh.
I am a conservative, ie fiscally restrained etc etc responsible government etc etc.
What most call conservative in the United Staes of America is a full blown 1984 double-think with some Brazil, Clockwork Orange mixed in like some weird kind of Koolaid.
It is full blown dysfunctional corporate fascism and it looks to be getting worse in all sectors of society and the economy.
Even by their own estimates, not ONE version of the bill they’re trying to pass would have INCREASED access to care. The best estimate would have “only” uninsured 10 million people. Nobody denies that what we have now isn’t good enough, but it’s sure as hell better than what the GOP has been proposing.
If it weren’t for conservatives – or “conservatives” if that’s easier on your delicate feelings – we would have had single payer back in 2010. If you’re not like them, that’s fucking wonderful.
BigGuy
John McCain holds the ideas I’d define as conservatism and he just gave a massive middle finger to the Republican Party. Conservatism is not about denying rights and discriminating against others, it is about ensuring that each step taken is the correct one and being respectful of the level of power that government has over private citizens.
Remember also that you are biased. There are many good things that conservatives do to promote job growth, enable the country to thrive, and protect the rights of certain groups. You just don’t think about them because you’re focused on the groups they don’t protect and the people they don’t promote. Guess what honey – conservatives are in the same boat. It’s 100% perspective.
You and others who agree with your little diatribe there need to go and meet real conservatives and TALK TO THEM. You CANNOT have a deep understanding of someone’s political beliefs from a BULLET POINT LIST WRITTEN BY SOMEONE WHO HATES THE SUBJECT MATTER. Imagine if I tried to delineate trans rights in the same way you just scathingly denounced everything that “conservatives” believe. Spoiler: I’d get banned.
thejeff
Note that this digression started with damning the “far right”, which was blurred neatly into “conservatives are being blamed”.
Problem is, it’s that far right that’s dominating conservative politics these days. Get me a sane moderate conservative party and we can talk. (By many standards of course, we already have one. It’s called the Democratic Party.)
I have personally argued against the idea that ALL conservatives are bad, and that conservatism is inherently bad on this very site. I’m well aware that there are many conservatives who voted for Hillary because they preferred a president they disagreed with over one who was unfit for office.
But I was responding to Chris, and they were the one who saw “the far right” and equated it with ALL conservatives. I was explaining the things actual conservatives are doing which cause people to have negative reactions to them.
Chris was also the one complaining about “fascist liberal propaganda, comparing conservatives to fascists”. Without irony, somehow. I’m still laughing about that.
Btw, that comparison is a dramatically false equivalence. People don’t choose to be trans. There aren’t millions of trans people out there who voted a bigot into office who is actively trying their damnedest to harm marginalized people.
I will totally concede the “not all conservatives” point, but holy crap, have some self-awareness. Conservatism is a political ideology, not some oppressed minority group, ffs
Halpful
“honey”? you’re starting to get rude and condescending. could you, like… not?
pjeseb
Hey, BigGuy, here’s an idea: my dad and my stepmom proudly support every one of the items on Captor’s bullet point list. How about you come over to their house and explain to them exactly how they do not qualify as “real conservatives?”
According to you, everyone I have ever met in real life that identifies as a conservative is not a “real” conservative. So, where do I have to go to meet these “real” conservatives in-person?
When have republicans ever done anything to promote job growth. And no, giving tax breaks to rich people, and trying to get rid of minimum wage would NOT promote job growth.
When have republicans actually helped the economy in the past thirty years? Since the record shows that over and over, it’s republicans who screw up the economy worldwide. Republican states tend to be worst off economically, exactly because it’s a proven fact that republican ideas on the economy do NOT work.
Jay Carr
I just…I just have to ask. Was this intentionally ironic or…or somethign else?
>…there’s too much of this fascist liberal propaganda, comparing conservatives to fascists
In TWIN PEAKS: THE RETURN which is AWESOME, btw, they have Cooper escape the Black Lodge to go after his doppelganger has been wrecking havoc for 25 in his body. Given this is multiverse, it makes sense Original Mary has either been replaced or became her original self a.k.a Good Mary. I assume that Evil Mary has been returned to the dimension from which she came.
Is that what Cooper’s been doing? Huh. In the version I’ve been watching, he’s just been stumbling around with a dazed look on his face and repeating the last few words that anyone says to him.
I believe David Lynch is having revenge on his audience for FIRE WALK WITH ME by saying, “So, you wanted back Cooper? Well, here is he, except he won’t actually be back until Episode 18 and probably in the last 2 minutes!” I’m ready to riot about the lack of Audrey too.
JessWitt
It was startling at first but I’m enjoying TP’s slow burn nature. Plus, the craziness is really ramping up.
My favorite moment so far was the Mystery of the Golden Shovels which turned out to be a scam to bilk conspiracy theorist listeners out of their money.
JessWitt
That was pretty goofy. It’s the little absurdities I appreciate.
… with a soupcon of hypocrisy in the “Using their faith to justify anything” part, though it’s a stretch to say Ryan.was doing that, more like using his association with a trusted authority figure (in the abstract as we know.nothing of his father, the father) to con his way into a position of advantage to exploit.
I thought “soupçon” was some newfangled made-up jargon. Naturally, it’s just French.
MatthewTheLucky
Actually, all French is newfangled jargon. They do it to mess with people.
Abel Undercity
There is actually no such country as France. The so-called “French” pretend there is and then giggle en masse when our backs our turned, at how epically they’re trolling the rest of the world.
I mean, the escargot thing was a dead giveaway, and they still can’t believe that nobody caught on.
strictly speaking
Nah. That’s just a distraction from the fact that the American continent never existed. Columbus actually did hit Japan when he sailed west, and all “Americans” actually live in some unknown region of Siberia and have made up an entire country.
I mean, it’s not like they even bothered to make up an actual culture to go with the country, so that’s a dead giveaway.
Ecostarr
There once was a snail that loved to race cars. When he was old enough, he bought a car and painted a big “S” on it, so that everyone would know that the snail was driving a really fast car. Over time, people would point at the snail’s car as it sped by and say “Look at that S Car Go.”
Sorry, I had to.
Makkabee
“Actually, all French is newfangled jargon.”
It really is. Charlemagne hated it, and complained that he wished people would speak proper Latin or Frankish (which sounded like a really archaic form of Dutch) instead of that weird degenerate hybrid.
Khno
To be fair all languages are newfangled jargon.
And I’m not sure it was Charlemagne who wanted latin/frankish. More his scholars, if I remember it well enough from Saenger’s Space between words.
SeanR
She’s blind to her own hypocrisy.
That just seems so…likely.
That always makes me worry about what I’m overlooking in myself.
Halpful
*agos*
that’s why it’s important for everyone to reflect on their actions now and then. just, remember that amber’s way is not a healthy way 🙂 human imperfections are generally better solved with kindness, compassion and sane boundaries, *especially* when dealing with your own mind.
I had the idea now that she found out about Stabface and it put a bit of a shock into her, finding out that a pastor’s son could go so wrong, and she’s had some insight into her own failings as a follower of her faith. And trying first to fix herself before trying to apologize for her meanness of spirit.
Maybe it could happen! On this Day Of Great Devotion, I want to see the good in people.
(Thirty years ago, Rick Astley promised he was never going to give us up or let us down, and he’s kept to that.)
Nar, she’s been weird since before that. It seemed like it was joy at what happened to Ruth at first, but hasn’t there been a week since that happened now? Mary acting decent is freaking me the hell out!
CoMa
I think it was half a week – about three days was the time jump, wasn’t it?
But yeah, she has been like that before that, so something has to be up.
NotPiffany
Either she’s up to something, or every pastor in town has asked her to put a sock in it because she’s driving down their attendance.
DinaWho
That seemed to be forced-nice from Billie, at least imo. She was evilly gleeful last chapter about Ruth’s return, but this seems different. The being nice to Carla could be part of a nefarious scheme (since Carla’s been one of her targets previously), but this doesn’t fit as well.
Ahh yes, the old bad person says agreeable thing but that doesn’t make you hate the bad person less, because no one is 100% evil but coming out of them, it doesn’t feel good at all
She’s saying that with a straight face, and I’m mostly confused. It’s coming off as more of a lack of self-awareness to me. But, I’ve been historically thrown off by that type of thing often with manipulators, so take that with a grain of salt i suppose.
442 thoughts on “Justify”
Ana Chronistic
“so what are YOU trying to justify, you sack of wet badgers”
Streben
Hey now.
The badgers didn’t deserve that comparison.
Cholma
What about the mushrooms, or the snake?
LookingIn
Both are actually enjoyed by people, Mary on the other hand…
Gojira
Even Mary could be enjoyed, with the right marinade. ftftftftftft.
LookingIn
Everything tastes better with ketchup but consuming Mary may cause indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea, bloating, gas…
morleuca
I think Mary could use a good consumption
StClair
mary-nade?
JasonAW3
The mushrooms, maybe… But the snakes? they’re not even that low…
hof1991
On Wisconsin!
Doctor_Who
And she was all happy and friendly earlier.
Maybe she took a heavy blow to the head off-panel somewhere?
Haven
I’m thinkin gas leak.
RandomDude
We can only hope. Bludgeoning the far-right is cool and good, and it should be done more often.
Mr. Bulbmin
Hey hey hey.
Let me edit that.
Bludgeoning the shitheads is all well and good.
Don’t leave any out. The far right aren’t the only ones who need a good clubbing with a crowbar.
JasonAW3
The far right, maybe, but right leaning? Not so much…
Chris
The far right? Why does everyone always assume the conservatives are consistently the enemy. Wasn’t LBJ the one who pushed his “guns and butter” policies, further entrenching us in Vietnam? Wasn’t it Jimmy Carter who crashed our economy and promoted the “crisis of confidence”, followed by the Iran hostage crisis (which we had to clean up with the Iran Contra scandal)?
This is the one complaint I have for this webcomic: there’s too much of this fascist liberal propaganda, comparing conservatives to fascists (which has been going on since at least the counter-culture movement of the 60s).
If the politics were taken out of the Ryan arc (which is more than reasonable, seeing how Ted Bundy gave OSU’s campus a run for it’s money).
Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of fundamentalist religious nuts and warhawks who wear Wal-Mart American flag t-shirts, and they tow an overly-simplified view of federalist, conservative, and libertarian positions. However, to outright attack anyone of a conservative bent is ridiculous.
Certainly, the story could be even more interesting if Joyce’s transformation as a growing, independent woman involved finding a blend of Judeo-Christian fundamentals, the Greek empirical philosophers, and elements across the political spectrum that fit her personal truth. Why not make her take a few philosophy courses?
Fart Captor
Because today it’s conservatives who want to dump millions of people off of health care just to give rich people a tax break.
It’s conservatives who fought to block same sex marriage.
It’s conservatives who want to force transgender people to use the wrong bathroom, forbid them from competing in athletics while in school, and bar them from serving in the military.
It’s conservatives who maintain that the Constitution doesn’t protect against discrimination against LGBT people. They’re the ones voting down laws aimed at making that protection explicit.
It’s conservatives insisting that our law enforcement agencies and local police don’t need to change, despite all of the innocent people getting murdered by them, with the perpetrators going free because they have a badge.
It’s conservatives insisting we need to ban refugees and immigrants based on their religion, while insisting that it’s Christianity that’s under attack.
It’s conservatives who are declaring science itself as their enemy, because they want to keep their heads in the sand about climate change, happy to let future generations suffer. And because they want THEIR views on evolution and sex ed to be taught as fact.
Nobody is vilifying them. They’re doing it to themselves.
N0083rp00F
What health care? What the states has is mandatory Health Insurance.
Medicare is where the money should have gone instead of into the pockets of the middlemen [aka the 0.1%]
Peoples Lives are literally being held ransom by Speculative Investors these days.
Also the whole “It’s conservatives” thing …. ugh.
I am a conservative, ie fiscally restrained etc etc responsible government etc etc.
What most call conservative in the United Staes of America is a full blown 1984 double-think with some Brazil, Clockwork Orange mixed in like some weird kind of Koolaid.
It is full blown dysfunctional corporate fascism and it looks to be getting worse in all sectors of society and the economy.
Fart Captor
Even by their own estimates, not ONE version of the bill they’re trying to pass would have INCREASED access to care. The best estimate would have “only” uninsured 10 million people. Nobody denies that what we have now isn’t good enough, but it’s sure as hell better than what the GOP has been proposing.
If it weren’t for conservatives – or “conservatives” if that’s easier on your delicate feelings – we would have had single payer back in 2010. If you’re not like them, that’s fucking wonderful.
BigGuy
John McCain holds the ideas I’d define as conservatism and he just gave a massive middle finger to the Republican Party. Conservatism is not about denying rights and discriminating against others, it is about ensuring that each step taken is the correct one and being respectful of the level of power that government has over private citizens.
Remember also that you are biased. There are many good things that conservatives do to promote job growth, enable the country to thrive, and protect the rights of certain groups. You just don’t think about them because you’re focused on the groups they don’t protect and the people they don’t promote. Guess what honey – conservatives are in the same boat. It’s 100% perspective.
You and others who agree with your little diatribe there need to go and meet real conservatives and TALK TO THEM. You CANNOT have a deep understanding of someone’s political beliefs from a BULLET POINT LIST WRITTEN BY SOMEONE WHO HATES THE SUBJECT MATTER. Imagine if I tried to delineate trans rights in the same way you just scathingly denounced everything that “conservatives” believe. Spoiler: I’d get banned.
thejeff
Note that this digression started with damning the “far right”, which was blurred neatly into “conservatives are being blamed”.
Problem is, it’s that far right that’s dominating conservative politics these days. Get me a sane moderate conservative party and we can talk. (By many standards of course, we already have one. It’s called the Democratic Party.)
Fart Captor
Lol, oh my god. Shush.
I have personally argued against the idea that ALL conservatives are bad, and that conservatism is inherently bad on this very site. I’m well aware that there are many conservatives who voted for Hillary because they preferred a president they disagreed with over one who was unfit for office.
But I was responding to Chris, and they were the one who saw “the far right” and equated it with ALL conservatives. I was explaining the things actual conservatives are doing which cause people to have negative reactions to them.
Chris was also the one complaining about “fascist liberal propaganda, comparing conservatives to fascists”. Without irony, somehow. I’m still laughing about that.
Btw, that comparison is a dramatically false equivalence. People don’t choose to be trans. There aren’t millions of trans people out there who voted a bigot into office who is actively trying their damnedest to harm marginalized people.
I will totally concede the “not all conservatives” point, but holy crap, have some self-awareness. Conservatism is a political ideology, not some oppressed minority group, ffs
Halpful
“honey”? you’re starting to get rude and condescending. could you, like… not?
pjeseb
Hey, BigGuy, here’s an idea: my dad and my stepmom proudly support every one of the items on Captor’s bullet point list. How about you come over to their house and explain to them exactly how they do not qualify as “real conservatives?”
According to you, everyone I have ever met in real life that identifies as a conservative is not a “real” conservative. So, where do I have to go to meet these “real” conservatives in-person?
Liliaeth
When have republicans ever done anything to promote job growth. And no, giving tax breaks to rich people, and trying to get rid of minimum wage would NOT promote job growth.
When have republicans actually helped the economy in the past thirty years? Since the record shows that over and over, it’s republicans who screw up the economy worldwide. Republican states tend to be worst off economically, exactly because it’s a proven fact that republican ideas on the economy do NOT work.
Jay Carr
I just…I just have to ask. Was this intentionally ironic or…or somethign else?
>…there’s too much of this fascist liberal propaganda, comparing conservatives to fascists
Nobody
What if it’s Mary’s not evil twin?
thebombzen
Like from Spirited away!
Romanticide
It could be, maybe she is like Goku: one huge hit and she forgot she was supposed to destroy humanity.
Bean
I have a theory about Mary and Rapist D-Bag that would not be pleasant at all, but may explain her happiness since D-Bag got stabbed.
LookingIn
She is secretly strangling a puppy behind her back
Needfuldoer
And her kindness will continue tapering off until said puppy has been devoured.
C.T Phipps
In TWIN PEAKS: THE RETURN which is AWESOME, btw, they have Cooper escape the Black Lodge to go after his doppelganger has been wrecking havoc for 25 in his body. Given this is multiverse, it makes sense Original Mary has either been replaced or became her original self a.k.a Good Mary. I assume that Evil Mary has been returned to the dimension from which she came.
Durandal_1707
Is that what Cooper’s been doing? Huh. In the version I’ve been watching, he’s just been stumbling around with a dazed look on his face and repeating the last few words that anyone says to him.
C.T Phipps
I believe David Lynch is having revenge on his audience for FIRE WALK WITH ME by saying, “So, you wanted back Cooper? Well, here is he, except he won’t actually be back until Episode 18 and probably in the last 2 minutes!” I’m ready to riot about the lack of Audrey too.
JessWitt
It was startling at first but I’m enjoying TP’s slow burn nature. Plus, the craziness is really ramping up.
C.T Phipps
My favorite moment so far was the Mystery of the Golden Shovels which turned out to be a scam to bilk conspiracy theorist listeners out of their money.
JessWitt
That was pretty goofy. It’s the little absurdities I appreciate.
Foxhack
Um. Spoilers? 😐
C.T Phipps
It’s in the first episode. David Lynch is crazy that way.
JasonAW3
Her butt?
Andy
I hate Mary even more here. Just. So much. She’s planning something.
Delicious Taffy
You’re severely overreacting. She’s literally doing nothing but condemning a rapist, right now.
DSL
… with a soupcon of hypocrisy in the “Using their faith to justify anything” part, though it’s a stretch to say Ryan.was doing that, more like using his association with a trusted authority figure (in the abstract as we know.nothing of his father, the father) to con his way into a position of advantage to exploit.
Delicious Taffy
I thought “soupçon” was some newfangled made-up jargon. Naturally, it’s just French.
MatthewTheLucky
Actually, all French is newfangled jargon. They do it to mess with people.
Abel Undercity
There is actually no such country as France. The so-called “French” pretend there is and then giggle en masse when our backs our turned, at how epically they’re trolling the rest of the world.
I mean, the escargot thing was a dead giveaway, and they still can’t believe that nobody caught on.
strictly speaking
Nah. That’s just a distraction from the fact that the American continent never existed. Columbus actually did hit Japan when he sailed west, and all “Americans” actually live in some unknown region of Siberia and have made up an entire country.
I mean, it’s not like they even bothered to make up an actual culture to go with the country, so that’s a dead giveaway.
Ecostarr
There once was a snail that loved to race cars. When he was old enough, he bought a car and painted a big “S” on it, so that everyone would know that the snail was driving a really fast car. Over time, people would point at the snail’s car as it sped by and say “Look at that S Car Go.”
Sorry, I had to.
Makkabee
“Actually, all French is newfangled jargon.”
It really is. Charlemagne hated it, and complained that he wished people would speak proper Latin or Frankish (which sounded like a really archaic form of Dutch) instead of that weird degenerate hybrid.
Khno
To be fair all languages are newfangled jargon.
And I’m not sure it was Charlemagne who wanted latin/frankish. More his scholars, if I remember it well enough from Saenger’s Space between words.
SeanR
She’s blind to her own hypocrisy.
That just seems so…likely.
That always makes me worry about what I’m overlooking in myself.
Halpful
*agos*
that’s why it’s important for everyone to reflect on their actions now and then. just, remember that amber’s way is not a healthy way 🙂 human imperfections are generally better solved with kindness, compassion and sane boundaries, *especially* when dealing with your own mind.
Mephron
I had the idea now that she found out about Stabface and it put a bit of a shock into her, finding out that a pastor’s son could go so wrong, and she’s had some insight into her own failings as a follower of her faith. And trying first to fix herself before trying to apologize for her meanness of spirit.
Maybe it could happen! On this Day Of Great Devotion, I want to see the good in people.
(Thirty years ago, Rick Astley promised he was never going to give us up or let us down, and he’s kept to that.)
TheOthin
I was all prepared to be mad after her first sentence and now I’m just confused again.
Laladoria
Yeah, me too. I was here thinking “Oh, she’s gonna defend him.”
First she was nice to Carla, and now this.
N0083rp00F
She must be on some new meds.
Mr. Mendo
Ah damn, Mary flipped the script! Script flip!
DinaWho
Seriously wondering what’s up with Mary at this point.
Undrave
Maybe she saw the stabbing and got traumatized?
smashman42
Nar, she’s been weird since before that. It seemed like it was joy at what happened to Ruth at first, but hasn’t there been a week since that happened now? Mary acting decent is freaking me the hell out!
CoMa
I think it was half a week – about three days was the time jump, wasn’t it?
But yeah, she has been like that before that, so something has to be up.
NotPiffany
Either she’s up to something, or every pastor in town has asked her to put a sock in it because she’s driving down their attendance.
DinaWho
That seemed to be forced-nice from Billie, at least imo. She was evilly gleeful last chapter about Ruth’s return, but this seems different. The being nice to Carla could be part of a nefarious scheme (since Carla’s been one of her targets previously), but this doesn’t fit as well.
Flakky
She became self-aware and knows she’s in a webcomic now, and wants to ruin the webcomic by removing all drama and solving everyone’s problems.
firestk
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
Kernanator
Wow, you don’t say.
wheelpath
Ahh yes, the old bad person says agreeable thing but that doesn’t make you hate the bad person less, because no one is 100% evil but coming out of them, it doesn’t feel good at all
Joy
She’s saying that with a straight face, and I’m mostly confused. It’s coming off as more of a lack of self-awareness to me. But, I’ve been historically thrown off by that type of thing often with manipulators, so take that with a grain of salt i suppose.
AnvilPro
Mary best character? Is that what’s about to happen?
inqntrol
I doubt it, but still she could try to fix her mistakes by stopping being a jerk.
Delicious Taffy
What, just now? I guess everyone’s a late adopter for something.
Cephalo the Pod