Welp. I was going to comment on a different aspect of what Ethan just said, but the comments are already a dumpster fire of Very Strong Opinions (TM), so… never mind, I guess.
To me it reads as “Wait you think SAL the person who threatened you with a KNIFE, deserves better than DANNY, the guy you were megacrushing/wanting to mack on? WAT?”
That’s my assumption. Danny can put his foot WAY in his mouth, but I can’t see him doing anything malicious. That conversation (which was indeed very insensitive of him) is about as bad as he gets.
I wonder what hurt him more, that Mike died, or that Danny said what he did, or that he thinks Danny was right?
Meagan
Good question. I hadn’t considered the third possibility (from Ethan’s perspective) but it makes a lot of sense. Personally I think that Mike dying does not give him a pass for being such an asshole to everyone. Danny is/was entitled to feel how he does about how Mike treated him regardless of Mike dying.
Spencer
I am sort of considering this.
Ethan knows Mike is an asshole, Danny’s point (which wasn’t “it’s fine if he dies lol” it was a refusal to sweep Mike’s actions under the rug) is true, but for Ethan to accept it means taking Mike off that pedestal he’s got now that he’s gone.
That’s not really backstabbing, though, so I don’t know what Ethan’s going on about.
Sirksome
Backstabbing can mean a lot of things. Especially since Ethan is clearly being pretty salty here. Unless something else happened during the time skip which personally seems unnecessary to me since that relationship already broke, I think Ethan just means that he though Danny was a genuinely nice dude nut Danny was actually capable of saying something personally hurtful.
John Smith
Which is, of course, such dense irony that we risk making a [i]freaking black hole[/i].
Decidedly Orthogonal
I [b]hate it[/b] when I forget which forum formatting applies. I’ve littered some markdown around here too.
tofu
not *just* saying something hurtful—when Ethan called him out on being a dick, Danny doubled down
I’m guessing the “backstabbing” was shittalking Mike, and then never following up/trying to make amends with Ethan after Mike died.
anonymsly
I think that the backstabbing Ethan is talking about isn’t a single incident. Over the initial course of knowing each other, Danny established himself as a good and kind person, someone Ethan liked, trusted, and to whom he was attracted.
And then, while one of Ethan’s best friends, someone he’s known forever, his life’s version of Joe perhaps (in that they were friends despite having basically nothing in common and Mike was often pretty mean to him), someone hugely important in his life, was horrifically injured and comatose in the hospital, that’s when Danny turned. Danny said cruel things (true or not is beside the point), Danny was not kind or understanding or a good friend. Danny thought it would be good if Mike didn’t get better. And then Danny stomped off, shouting about how if he’s not more important than Ethan’s horrifically injured and comatose friend, he’s out! And then he STAYED out.
Basically, the betrayal could well have been ‘Danny made me believe that he was a good person, and then he kicked me in the emotional balls and ran away laughing’.
Keith Curtis
I think Ethan feels he was emotionally backstabbed. He expected comfort from Danny, but got Danny at his most socially impaired.
Danny saying that was undoubtedly fucked up, but I’m not sure that it would be accurate for Ethan to call that “stabbing him in the back” so I also can’t help but wonder if something else might have happened since them
Azhrei Vep
I’m not sure Ethan needs to be right, so long as he thinks he is.
Also while if I remember correctly Ethan was sort of awkwardly dating him or at least having sex with him and liked him. So his friend told him it would probably be for the best if his sort of boyfriend never woke up
RacingTurtle
They weren’t really dating each other; in fact, Ethan brought a date to the party, and it wasn’t Mike. They were friends, they made out at least once and had sex once, Mike had a genuine crush he never admitted…it was complicated
Yeah, that wasn’t good, but I’m not surprised Danny felt that way considering Mike was a huge jerk to him every time the two of them interacted before Mike died.
Gwyn
This is exactly the problem. How Danny felt about Mike was NOT RELEVANT in that situation. Neither is whether Mike was or was not an asshole. Ethan was extremely worried about a long-time friend, who was in a coma (and ended up dying not long after). When someone is grieving someone who was important to them personally, that grief is real, regardless of the virtues or vices of the person being mourned.
When an awful public figure dies, it’s fair game to immediately point out how they were an asshole. When it’s a private figure, and a teenager at that, your only appropriate role as an empathetic person is to comfort and listen to the person affected by that loss.
Gwyn
…this comment coming from Joe sort of undermines the gravitas, doesn’t it.
Chris
Yes, yes it does.
thejeff
And even more, if you go back to his talk with Mike at the party, Danny was bothered more by Mike being a huge jerk to Ethan than to him.
I liked Ethan right up until now when he said Danny wasn’t the best. Now I don’t like Ethan. He could do better than you and I’m glad you two aren’t a couple.
From that last panel though, I actually feel kinda bad for him — it suggests that he’s never gotten to know any genuinely good people in his life, has he?
Except that’s not even true. Over the last decade we’ve seen a 3 month or so chunk of Ethan’s life and know he’s met good people and made a few friends. Joyce for example was very kind to him even though their relationship was a total sham of mutual self-denial.
Well if that’s the case, then this stuff about Mike and Amber and some other third thing must be taking up a LOT of his emotional bandwidth, so as to have no room for anything else.
Sirksome
Personally I think since Mike died literally sacrificing himself and near the end was romantically involved with Ethan it’s cause Ethan to remember the dude with more reverence than maybe Mike really deserved.
Danny insulted one of Ethan’s best friends who’d just sacrificed himself to save a bunch of peoples’ lives. And then he doubled down by comparing the situation to Star Wars, which is one of the most out of touch things you can do. And then he escalated things even further by whining about how he wasn’t important to Ethan during all of this. Danny made Mike’s situation and Ethan’s grief over the potential death of his friend about himself because he had a crush on Ethan and couldn’t just behave like a normal person. He didn’t just “speak the truth” about Mike like some people are saying. He was being an insensitive immature shithead when one of the people Ethan was closest to in the world was on death’s door.
Danny ISN’T the best. That’s kind of one of his big character traits. If you read through itswalky.com you’ll see how much Willis despises Walkyverse Danny in the commentary, and how that changed perspective over the years has impacted his characterization in DoA. And he’s not being written to be the worst either, but Ethan’s feelings about him –especially in this period of grief that’s clearly effected his entire worldview– are valid.
Everything you’ve said is mostly valid about Ethan’s defensiveness over someone who objectively and genuinely selflessly helped other people at their own cost (I think trying to take Blaine over the ledge is the one truly heroic thing Mike did in his entire 9-year DoA run, everything else is steeped in either he-was-so-bad-at-being-heroic-he-was-instead-villainous or just-outright-being-a-piece-of-shit), and Ethan is mostly right to be horrified that that person who was also in his life for a long time is being disparaged.
But Danny had also clearly made some deep-if-flawed connections with both Ethan and Amber in the first semester before Mike’s death, so seeing the obvious and long-term damage Mike had dealt to the both of them makes his desire for Mike to go far far away equally or even more valid.
Yes, he went about it in an extremely tone-deaf manner and at very nearly the worst possible time (Walky making a terrifically unkosher joke at the funeral would have been the worst possible time), but I really believe that actions and their effects outweigh the intention behind them, and by that metric Mike was a terrible person. There are several JFK airports worth of baggage for Amber and Ethan to unpack concerning Mike and his place in their lives, but at the end of that very long day he was a deliberately negative influence on virtually everyone around him.
Ethan was and is tremendously hurt and he deserves bandages for his wounds, not salt, but Danny was and is right.
anonymsly
If actions and their effects matter more than intentions, then Danny’s actions and effects were ‘cause more pain to Ethan on what probably turned out to be the worst day of Ethan’s life so far’.
Danny was NOT RIGHT to do that. If Mike was wrong to be an asshole (which he absolutely 1000% was) then so was Danny. Mike’s assholery does not excuse Danny’s.
Arillius
The problem with that is that pain caused by truth is not as equally valid a thing to whine about as pain caused by an asshole punching you down because he thinks it will make you tougher/better/smarter/doing you a favor. Mike was LITERALLY a Blane in the making and judging by his parents it had nothing to do with abuse from them, at least. Danny might have been an ass about how he said things but he definitely wasn’t wrong about Mike.
Not the not waking up part thing. Morally that was shit and Danny is in the wrong for that. The ‘everything else’ part about Mike. He was an abuser, a dickhead, and one right thing from an abuser does not a good person make.
Insanenoodlyguy
It’s the great refuge of the tactless asshole “I’m only telling the truth!” It makes the problem everybody else who’s upset with what they shouldn’t be upset with. Of course, you just determined Mike was going to be Blaine (the man directly responsible for Mike’s fate, cause you know, obviously they Blaine saw Mike as future competition I guess) and that Danny was correct in what he said at face value: That it would be better if Mike never woke up. That’s the “truth” you are defending, a man is looking at the grieving friend/not quite figured out lover of somebody, whom said somebody actually gave his life saving, and telling them that it would be best if said person never recovered from the injuries they took doing that. They aren’t disconnected. Danny didn’t say “Okay that’s too much but I can’t pretend I like him”. Danny wished that “never wake up” thing, and when Ethan called him out on it, walked into that “Truth” which is somehow valid. It was a fucking mansplain about how what he said wasn’t a bad thing because consider this and that. Just happened to be a dude doing it to another dude.
tofu
long-term damage? while he was alive, Mike was a significantly better friend to Ethan than Danny ever was
Okay a few things. For one I’ve never read it’s Walky or even Shortpacked except for the occasional strip or two when someone links it. So I don’t really have any context for Danny’s characterization in that regard or if an interpretation of a character from a different comic universe applies here.
Also I don’t actually think Danny is the best, he does have his issues but Ethan is being unfair here. Mike was a horrible person for 90% of his run and Ethan outright admitted that he got a free pass for that just because they were friends. That’s not okay. So in this situation they were both jerks but for whatever reason Ethan’s opinions are more valid than Danny’s? Why? Because of the timing?
To me Mike doesn’t suddenly get forgiven just because he made a noble sacrifice at the end and Ethan’s opinions are indeed valid but don’t somehow overwrite the fact he’s being a jerk and insulting a good person for no reason just because he’s sad and that person hurt his feelings.
Danny is a nice guy. Ethan is just salty Danny wasn’t nice to him once.
Awaiting Moderation
Yes because of the timing. Danny established his shittiness entirely through his disgusting timing. The timing is in fact the entire problem with how Danny acted, and as problems go it is a very big one. I’m fine with Danny not being sad about what happened to Mike. That is an opinion that he is entirely entitled to. But the way he acted in that moment was beyond awful and Ethan has every right to not forgive him. Because in that moment Danny managed to beat anything I’ve seen Mike said. And that is a serious achievement in scumminess.
Bryy
Danny said exactly two things wrong in that situation that turned it from a horrible comment into a disgusting situation:
1) Said he was upset that Ethan valued spending time with his dying friend over him.
2) He implied Mike dying was retribution for Mike being a shitty *young adult*.
Sirksome
Danny didn’t actually say either of those things. He compared Mike to Darth Vader the meaning of which is that even if you did something noble and self-sacrificing in the end it doesn’t make up for all the people you hurt. The billions of people on Alderaan are still dead even if Darth Vader helped destroy the Empire at the very end, just as the people Mike hurt with his actions are still hurt even though he died saving Amber.
Then he said if the situations were reversed and he was in a coma Mike would talk shit about him and Ethan would be fine with it. Which Ethan agreed with because he knew Mike longer than Danny and ultimately decided in that moment he cared more about Mike than Danny. That’s fair, but still a mean thing to say to someone you might have had romantic interest in.
Danny was selfish in that moment to make the conversation about him while Ethan was emotional and worried about his hurt friend, yes. But they were both being pretty honest in that moment and said some hurtful stuff. And now instead of maybe owning up to his own hypocrisy over Mike Ethan’s decided to lash out and insult Danny. It’s valid, he’s entitled to his emotions and opinion but it doesn’t mean his take on Danny is accurate.
Arillius
I would argue that inaccuracy makes a reaction invalid. Just because someone has emotions doesn’t mean they’re appropriate ones. That way leads to the world we have today, where opinions and emotions outweigh fact.
Yeah, that seems pretty severe for Danny saying Mike was pretty shitty to most people. Like, the “Is so bad?” is not great, and I really wish Danny would have admitted to that being a shit thing to say, but beyond that… He wasn’t really wrong. Hardly a knife in the back.
Theory: Ethan is actually really upset because the last thing HE said to Mike was “Lemme guess, you fucked Danny’s mom” and an exasperated sigh. But it’s far easier to be angry at Danny for things said behind Mike’s back, then it is to be angry at himself. And he is angry at himself.
You probably have to think of Mike as of one of his best friends, because that’s what he was, meanness and everything. Then, yes, it is a pretty big thing. I’d be pretty furious if someone wished death on a hospitalised person that’s dear to me.
Lexi
He didn’t wish death on him. He wished that he wouldn’t wake up for awhile. A break from a guy you find exhausting to talk to is not the same as wishing him dead, and Ethan himself did not believe he’d die at the time.
Alanari
I’m pretty sure those details don’t count when you’re scared your friend might die. I’ve been in that position (attempted suicide and he didn’t die, but still, the fear probably is the same), and you are pretty emotional.
Nyzer
The problem with that is that Mike was one of his best friends, sure, but Ethan was also extremely aware of how manipulative and cruel Mike had become. He flat out forbade Mike from really so much as interacting with Danny because he was worried Mike would drive him away. Doesn’t mean Danny didn’t see enough of Mike to draw his own conclusions.
Ethan is one of the very few people who got to really see a different side of Mike, and he was very aware of that, too.
When Danny said that if the tables were turned, Mike would be throwing shade at him, and Ethan would let it happen, Ethan flat out agreed.
That’s NOT a point in Ethan’s favor.
And the fact that he still seems to be holding on to that grudge says a lot about Ethan’s nepotism towards Mike.
Alanari
He agreed with basically “he’s been my friend since forever”. So yeah.
Fair or not is a different thing. We’re talking about a retraumatized teenager who just lost a childhood friend. He’s grieving. I’m pretty sure you’re allowed to be unfair and lead by emotions instead of logic in that situation.
anonymsly
And it’s actually not a good look for Danny that his response and the last thing he said to Ethan was ‘fine, if my thoughts and feelings aren’t the most important thing to you right this minute, I’m out!’
And he stomped off. Seemingly only to be seen again by Ethan some… three months later, by chance, and mostly from behind because as soon as he realized Ethan was in the room he just had to be anywhere else.
Like, it’s really easy to see a series of really percussion-instrument moves from Danny. We the readers know where he’s coming from because we see his thoughts and know his intentions. Ethan just sees someone who hurt him at a bad time, someone he’d thought was a good friend but who then dropped him like a hot coal, and three months later isn’t even willing to be in the same room with Ethan for more than a few seconds.
Gwyn
This, exactly. When Danny makes his first asshole comment, we see from his face that he realizes it was an awful thing to say. But then, instead of apologizing, he doubles down and says a bunch of worse things. And by his comment to himself at the end, we know he showed up at the hospital to be “nice” to Ethan (a goal at which he failed catastrophically) for the ulterior motive of asking Ethan out. That’s classic “nice” guy behavior, and Ethan is understandably pissed.
Felgraf
And it should be noted that Mike’s reaction to that forbiddance was to only obey the letter of it, and not the spirit of it, and attempt to fuck with Danny *by seducing Ethan*.
… which is actually super fucked up the more I think about it.
390 thoughts on “Kissyface”
Ana Chronistic
Note to self: literal stabbing pain to avoid feels
The Wellerman
Remember kids, don’t leave your Emo alone for too long!
brumagem
They’ll end up like those tamagotchi in the back of your dresser drawer.
Or should I say….
TamaGOTHchi
The Wellerman
From the makers of Tickle Me Ethan™ and Tickle Me Ethan™ EXTREME comes this holiday season’s hottest must-have toy!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5mS49R7Gek
The Wellerman
Hmmm… TamaGOTHchi… Tickle Me Ethan…
This gives me yet another idea! ?
Reaver
SlipShinEthan?
Rose by Any Other Name
Welp. I was going to comment on a different aspect of what Ethan just said, but the comments are already a dumpster fire of Very Strong Opinions (TM), so… never mind, I guess.
So… um… hi everyone. **waves**
The Wellerman
That’s alright, a fresh new perspective is always valued! I think.
Also, if it’s any consolation, I was just trying to make a reference to a MAD TV skit.
milu
hey there Rose!
milu
oh hi Rose!
milu
woopsie!
Decidedly Orthogonal
High milu, and Rose bAON!
Spacie
Hello there
ThunderNight
hide the emotional pain with real pain
The Wellerman
I know Ethan’s being mean, but did you REALLY need to bring that up Amber?!?!
Of ALL things?
Thag Simmons
It seems to be what she’s here to talk about, so kinda
Needfuldoer
I think they’re referring to Amber bringing up the hostage-taking part.
Reaver
To me it reads as “Wait you think SAL the person who threatened you with a KNIFE, deserves better than DANNY, the guy you were megacrushing/wanting to mack on? WAT?”
Sorta thing
jeffepp
Soooooo… something happened during the time jump, I take it?
Sirksome
I doubt it. It’s just that Danny and Ethan’s last known talk went really bad.
Doctor_Who
That’s my assumption. Danny can put his foot WAY in his mouth, but I can’t see him doing anything malicious. That conversation (which was indeed very insensitive of him) is about as bad as he gets.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Yeah, unless we’re getting a back-stabby flash-backy, Emothonal Ethan ith eathily overthtating thingth.
I wonder what hurt him more, that Mike died, or that Danny said what he did, or that he thinks Danny was right?
Meagan
Good question. I hadn’t considered the third possibility (from Ethan’s perspective) but it makes a lot of sense. Personally I think that Mike dying does not give him a pass for being such an asshole to everyone. Danny is/was entitled to feel how he does about how Mike treated him regardless of Mike dying.
Spencer
I am sort of considering this.
Ethan knows Mike is an asshole, Danny’s point (which wasn’t “it’s fine if he dies lol” it was a refusal to sweep Mike’s actions under the rug) is true, but for Ethan to accept it means taking Mike off that pedestal he’s got now that he’s gone.
RassilonTDavros
Danny asked Ethan if it would really be so bad if Mike never woke up.
Mike proceeded to not wake up.
So… yeah. “Something” happened, all right.
Queen Anthai
That’s not really backstabbing, though, so I don’t know what Ethan’s going on about.
Sirksome
Backstabbing can mean a lot of things. Especially since Ethan is clearly being pretty salty here. Unless something else happened during the time skip which personally seems unnecessary to me since that relationship already broke, I think Ethan just means that he though Danny was a genuinely nice dude nut Danny was actually capable of saying something personally hurtful.
John Smith
Which is, of course, such dense irony that we risk making a [i]freaking black hole[/i].
Decidedly Orthogonal
I [b]hate it[/b] when I forget which forum formatting applies. I’ve littered some markdown around here too.
tofu
not *just* saying something hurtful—when Ethan called him out on being a dick, Danny doubled down
Fay
I’m guessing the “backstabbing” was shittalking Mike, and then never following up/trying to make amends with Ethan after Mike died.
anonymsly
I think that the backstabbing Ethan is talking about isn’t a single incident. Over the initial course of knowing each other, Danny established himself as a good and kind person, someone Ethan liked, trusted, and to whom he was attracted.
And then, while one of Ethan’s best friends, someone he’s known forever, his life’s version of Joe perhaps (in that they were friends despite having basically nothing in common and Mike was often pretty mean to him), someone hugely important in his life, was horrifically injured and comatose in the hospital, that’s when Danny turned. Danny said cruel things (true or not is beside the point), Danny was not kind or understanding or a good friend. Danny thought it would be good if Mike didn’t get better. And then Danny stomped off, shouting about how if he’s not more important than Ethan’s horrifically injured and comatose friend, he’s out! And then he STAYED out.
Basically, the betrayal could well have been ‘Danny made me believe that he was a good person, and then he kicked me in the emotional balls and ran away laughing’.
Keith Curtis
I think Ethan feels he was emotionally backstabbed. He expected comfort from Danny, but got Danny at his most socially impaired.
Riley
Danny saying that was undoubtedly fucked up, but I’m not sure that it would be accurate for Ethan to call that “stabbing him in the back” so I also can’t help but wonder if something else might have happened since them
Azhrei Vep
I’m not sure Ethan needs to be right, so long as he thinks he is.
Samantha
Also while if I remember correctly Ethan was sort of awkwardly dating him or at least having sex with him and liked him. So his friend told him it would probably be for the best if his sort of boyfriend never woke up
RacingTurtle
They weren’t really dating each other; in fact, Ethan brought a date to the party, and it wasn’t Mike. They were friends, they made out at least once and had sex once, Mike had a genuine crush he never admitted…it was complicated
GUIGUI
I dunno, it look like quite straighforward front-stabbing, to me.
Keulen
Yeah, that wasn’t good, but I’m not surprised Danny felt that way considering Mike was a huge jerk to him every time the two of them interacted before Mike died.
Gwyn
This is exactly the problem. How Danny felt about Mike was NOT RELEVANT in that situation. Neither is whether Mike was or was not an asshole. Ethan was extremely worried about a long-time friend, who was in a coma (and ended up dying not long after). When someone is grieving someone who was important to them personally, that grief is real, regardless of the virtues or vices of the person being mourned.
When an awful public figure dies, it’s fair game to immediately point out how they were an asshole. When it’s a private figure, and a teenager at that, your only appropriate role as an empathetic person is to comfort and listen to the person affected by that loss.
Gwyn
…this comment coming from Joe sort of undermines the gravitas, doesn’t it.
Chris
Yes, yes it does.
thejeff
And even more, if you go back to his talk with Mike at the party, Danny was bothered more by Mike being a huge jerk to Ethan than to him.
Thag Simmons
Going to guess that Amber doesn’t know about the hospital fight
Sirksome
I liked Ethan right up until now when he said Danny wasn’t the best. Now I don’t like Ethan. He could do better than you and I’m glad you two aren’t a couple.
The Wellerman
From that last panel though, I actually feel kinda bad for him — it suggests that he’s never gotten to know any genuinely good people in his life, has he?
WYSIATI
Sirksome
Except that’s not even true. Over the last decade we’ve seen a 3 month or so chunk of Ethan’s life and know he’s met good people and made a few friends. Joyce for example was very kind to him even though their relationship was a total sham of mutual self-denial.
The Wellerman
Well if that’s the case, then this stuff about Mike and Amber and some other third thing must be taking up a LOT of his emotional bandwidth, so as to have no room for anything else.
Sirksome
Personally I think since Mike died literally sacrificing himself and near the end was romantically involved with Ethan it’s cause Ethan to remember the dude with more reverence than maybe Mike really deserved.
Schpoonman
“maybe”
Vivvav
Danny insulted one of Ethan’s best friends who’d just sacrificed himself to save a bunch of peoples’ lives. And then he doubled down by comparing the situation to Star Wars, which is one of the most out of touch things you can do. And then he escalated things even further by whining about how he wasn’t important to Ethan during all of this. Danny made Mike’s situation and Ethan’s grief over the potential death of his friend about himself because he had a crush on Ethan and couldn’t just behave like a normal person. He didn’t just “speak the truth” about Mike like some people are saying. He was being an insensitive immature shithead when one of the people Ethan was closest to in the world was on death’s door.
Danny ISN’T the best. That’s kind of one of his big character traits. If you read through itswalky.com you’ll see how much Willis despises Walkyverse Danny in the commentary, and how that changed perspective over the years has impacted his characterization in DoA. And he’s not being written to be the worst either, but Ethan’s feelings about him –especially in this period of grief that’s clearly effected his entire worldview– are valid.
Schpoonman
Everything you’ve said is mostly valid about Ethan’s defensiveness over someone who objectively and genuinely selflessly helped other people at their own cost (I think trying to take Blaine over the ledge is the one truly heroic thing Mike did in his entire 9-year DoA run, everything else is steeped in either he-was-so-bad-at-being-heroic-he-was-instead-villainous or just-outright-being-a-piece-of-shit), and Ethan is mostly right to be horrified that that person who was also in his life for a long time is being disparaged.
But Danny had also clearly made some deep-if-flawed connections with both Ethan and Amber in the first semester before Mike’s death, so seeing the obvious and long-term damage Mike had dealt to the both of them makes his desire for Mike to go far far away equally or even more valid.
Yes, he went about it in an extremely tone-deaf manner and at very nearly the worst possible time (Walky making a terrifically unkosher joke at the funeral would have been the worst possible time), but I really believe that actions and their effects outweigh the intention behind them, and by that metric Mike was a terrible person. There are several JFK airports worth of baggage for Amber and Ethan to unpack concerning Mike and his place in their lives, but at the end of that very long day he was a deliberately negative influence on virtually everyone around him.
Ethan was and is tremendously hurt and he deserves bandages for his wounds, not salt, but Danny was and is right.
anonymsly
If actions and their effects matter more than intentions, then Danny’s actions and effects were ‘cause more pain to Ethan on what probably turned out to be the worst day of Ethan’s life so far’.
Danny was NOT RIGHT to do that. If Mike was wrong to be an asshole (which he absolutely 1000% was) then so was Danny. Mike’s assholery does not excuse Danny’s.
Arillius
The problem with that is that pain caused by truth is not as equally valid a thing to whine about as pain caused by an asshole punching you down because he thinks it will make you tougher/better/smarter/doing you a favor. Mike was LITERALLY a Blane in the making and judging by his parents it had nothing to do with abuse from them, at least. Danny might have been an ass about how he said things but he definitely wasn’t wrong about Mike.
Not the not waking up part thing. Morally that was shit and Danny is in the wrong for that. The ‘everything else’ part about Mike. He was an abuser, a dickhead, and one right thing from an abuser does not a good person make.
Insanenoodlyguy
It’s the great refuge of the tactless asshole “I’m only telling the truth!” It makes the problem everybody else who’s upset with what they shouldn’t be upset with. Of course, you just determined Mike was going to be Blaine (the man directly responsible for Mike’s fate, cause you know, obviously they Blaine saw Mike as future competition I guess) and that Danny was correct in what he said at face value: That it would be better if Mike never woke up. That’s the “truth” you are defending, a man is looking at the grieving friend/not quite figured out lover of somebody, whom said somebody actually gave his life saving, and telling them that it would be best if said person never recovered from the injuries they took doing that. They aren’t disconnected. Danny didn’t say “Okay that’s too much but I can’t pretend I like him”. Danny wished that “never wake up” thing, and when Ethan called him out on it, walked into that “Truth” which is somehow valid. It was a fucking mansplain about how what he said wasn’t a bad thing because consider this and that. Just happened to be a dude doing it to another dude.
tofu
long-term damage? while he was alive, Mike was a significantly better friend to Ethan than Danny ever was
Sirksome
Okay a few things. For one I’ve never read it’s Walky or even Shortpacked except for the occasional strip or two when someone links it. So I don’t really have any context for Danny’s characterization in that regard or if an interpretation of a character from a different comic universe applies here.
Also I don’t actually think Danny is the best, he does have his issues but Ethan is being unfair here. Mike was a horrible person for 90% of his run and Ethan outright admitted that he got a free pass for that just because they were friends. That’s not okay. So in this situation they were both jerks but for whatever reason Ethan’s opinions are more valid than Danny’s? Why? Because of the timing?
To me Mike doesn’t suddenly get forgiven just because he made a noble sacrifice at the end and Ethan’s opinions are indeed valid but don’t somehow overwrite the fact he’s being a jerk and insulting a good person for no reason just because he’s sad and that person hurt his feelings.
Danny is a nice guy. Ethan is just salty Danny wasn’t nice to him once.
Awaiting Moderation
Yes because of the timing. Danny established his shittiness entirely through his disgusting timing. The timing is in fact the entire problem with how Danny acted, and as problems go it is a very big one. I’m fine with Danny not being sad about what happened to Mike. That is an opinion that he is entirely entitled to. But the way he acted in that moment was beyond awful and Ethan has every right to not forgive him. Because in that moment Danny managed to beat anything I’ve seen Mike said. And that is a serious achievement in scumminess.
Bryy
Danny said exactly two things wrong in that situation that turned it from a horrible comment into a disgusting situation:
1) Said he was upset that Ethan valued spending time with his dying friend over him.
2) He implied Mike dying was retribution for Mike being a shitty *young adult*.
Sirksome
Danny didn’t actually say either of those things. He compared Mike to Darth Vader the meaning of which is that even if you did something noble and self-sacrificing in the end it doesn’t make up for all the people you hurt. The billions of people on Alderaan are still dead even if Darth Vader helped destroy the Empire at the very end, just as the people Mike hurt with his actions are still hurt even though he died saving Amber.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-10/04-is-a-song-forever/alderaan/
Then he said if the situations were reversed and he was in a coma Mike would talk shit about him and Ethan would be fine with it. Which Ethan agreed with because he knew Mike longer than Danny and ultimately decided in that moment he cared more about Mike than Danny. That’s fair, but still a mean thing to say to someone you might have had romantic interest in.
Danny was selfish in that moment to make the conversation about him while Ethan was emotional and worried about his hurt friend, yes. But they were both being pretty honest in that moment and said some hurtful stuff. And now instead of maybe owning up to his own hypocrisy over Mike Ethan’s decided to lash out and insult Danny. It’s valid, he’s entitled to his emotions and opinion but it doesn’t mean his take on Danny is accurate.
Arillius
I would argue that inaccuracy makes a reaction invalid. Just because someone has emotions doesn’t mean they’re appropriate ones. That way leads to the world we have today, where opinions and emotions outweigh fact.
BarerMender
What did Danny do that amounted to a knife in the back? Say some truth about Mike? Seems like exaggeration.
Lexi
Yeah, that seems pretty severe for Danny saying Mike was pretty shitty to most people. Like, the “Is so bad?” is not great, and I really wish Danny would have admitted to that being a shit thing to say, but beyond that… He wasn’t really wrong. Hardly a knife in the back.
Theory: Ethan is actually really upset because the last thing HE said to Mike was “Lemme guess, you fucked Danny’s mom” and an exasperated sigh. But it’s far easier to be angry at Danny for things said behind Mike’s back, then it is to be angry at himself. And he is angry at himself.
ian livs
I think there’s some real merit to that theory. And if it’s true–yeah, it hurts, but I kinda love how *human* it feels, y’know? If that makes sense
Alanari
You probably have to think of Mike as of one of his best friends, because that’s what he was, meanness and everything. Then, yes, it is a pretty big thing. I’d be pretty furious if someone wished death on a hospitalised person that’s dear to me.
Lexi
He didn’t wish death on him. He wished that he wouldn’t wake up for awhile. A break from a guy you find exhausting to talk to is not the same as wishing him dead, and Ethan himself did not believe he’d die at the time.
Alanari
I’m pretty sure those details don’t count when you’re scared your friend might die. I’ve been in that position (attempted suicide and he didn’t die, but still, the fear probably is the same), and you are pretty emotional.
Nyzer
The problem with that is that Mike was one of his best friends, sure, but Ethan was also extremely aware of how manipulative and cruel Mike had become. He flat out forbade Mike from really so much as interacting with Danny because he was worried Mike would drive him away. Doesn’t mean Danny didn’t see enough of Mike to draw his own conclusions.
Ethan is one of the very few people who got to really see a different side of Mike, and he was very aware of that, too.
When Danny said that if the tables were turned, Mike would be throwing shade at him, and Ethan would let it happen, Ethan flat out agreed.
That’s NOT a point in Ethan’s favor.
And the fact that he still seems to be holding on to that grudge says a lot about Ethan’s nepotism towards Mike.
Alanari
He agreed with basically “he’s been my friend since forever”. So yeah.
Fair or not is a different thing. We’re talking about a retraumatized teenager who just lost a childhood friend. He’s grieving. I’m pretty sure you’re allowed to be unfair and lead by emotions instead of logic in that situation.
anonymsly
And it’s actually not a good look for Danny that his response and the last thing he said to Ethan was ‘fine, if my thoughts and feelings aren’t the most important thing to you right this minute, I’m out!’
And he stomped off. Seemingly only to be seen again by Ethan some… three months later, by chance, and mostly from behind because as soon as he realized Ethan was in the room he just had to be anywhere else.
Like, it’s really easy to see a series of really percussion-instrument moves from Danny. We the readers know where he’s coming from because we see his thoughts and know his intentions. Ethan just sees someone who hurt him at a bad time, someone he’d thought was a good friend but who then dropped him like a hot coal, and three months later isn’t even willing to be in the same room with Ethan for more than a few seconds.
Gwyn
This, exactly. When Danny makes his first asshole comment, we see from his face that he realizes it was an awful thing to say. But then, instead of apologizing, he doubles down and says a bunch of worse things. And by his comment to himself at the end, we know he showed up at the hospital to be “nice” to Ethan (a goal at which he failed catastrophically) for the ulterior motive of asking Ethan out. That’s classic “nice” guy behavior, and Ethan is understandably pissed.
Felgraf
And it should be noted that Mike’s reaction to that forbiddance was to only obey the letter of it, and not the spirit of it, and attempt to fuck with Danny *by seducing Ethan*.
… which is actually super fucked up the more I think about it.
Victor