214

Limitations
Posted on February 1, 2017 by David M Willis

214 thoughts on “Limitations”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    “Walky, if you applied yourself, you could have… TWO milkshakes”

    “oh YEAH?? what about my FIFTY MCNUGGETS”

    “ooh damn”

    1. Pablo360

      “Walky, what if I talk you it was possible to literally own a McDonald’s?”

      “My life’s path has never been clearer than it is in this moment.”

      1. Stephen Bierce

        And he requests to transfer to Hamburger University. But a glitch sends him to Hamburg.

        1. Stephen Bierce

          *plays Steely Dan’s “Black Cow” on the hacked Muzak*

        2. Dex

          Considering I’m listening to “Aja” this morning while doing my morning comic read, this made me laugh more than it maybe should have. 😉

    2. Kom

      Dorothy has two milkshakes

      1. TachyonCode

        Three, since she can commandeer Walky’s at almost any time.

  2. Doctor_Who

    He’s in bed with a milkshake, a cute girl, and probably wearing pajama jeans. Dude’s got life figured out.

    1. Disloyal Subject

      Now he just jeeds a sweet Lego mansion.

    2. Bagge

      If only he wasn’t a math-test-failing loser living a lie.

      1. Disloyal Subject

        LA LA LA LA LA I’M SORRY DID YOU SAY SOMETHING MY FRIEND

      2. Doctor_Who

        I fail to see how that impacts the presence of a milkshake.

        Though if they gave out milkshakes for answering math questions correctly, both my GPA and my pant size would be higher.

        1. Bagge

          A proper reward system would probably do wonder for his grades.

        2. Rosstifer

          Your gravatar is absolutely perfect for that, although it does imply something very dirty.

        3. Bagge

          Oh, with the current slipshine there is nothing “implied” about it.

        4. Ozzi

          Looks like 50 shades of walky to me……

        5. IllogicalBobcat

          50 Shakes of Walky

        6. Roborat

          They have done it a few times now, I am sure he can last longer than that.

  3. Mr. Mendo

    She could learn from Walky!

    1. TheAnonymousGuy

      Dorothy should be carful about not accepting limitations, less she wind up with third degree burns all over and her limbs chopped off by a sea of lava.

      1. Schpoonman

        Damn lightsaber-wielding seas of lava! They killed my grandfather, you know.

    2. Hellespont

      Nah, Dorothy already knows any milkshake you need a spoon for is a sundae,

      1. Deanatay

        And any milkshake that has solid flavorings is a sundae.

        Why draw distinctions between the two, anyway? If it contains ice cream, and sugar, and is at least somewhat fluid, a man can be happy.

  4. Reltzik

    Sorry, Dotty. You’re human. Sucks to be us.

  5. Commodore Counterintuitive

    You can’t argue with that logic.

    I mean, I certainly can. But you can’t. I called dibs.

  6. Bagge

    I’m impressed by how self aware Dorothy is. She is bummed out, and she takes the time to ask herself why.

    Poor Walky… those words hit him straight in the math test related insecurities.

    1. JessWitt

      Yeah, come clean about math, Walky. A higher power is dropping hints at you to let it out to Dorothy.

    2. Bluewind

      Agreed. His eyes in panel 4 shows how vulnerable he is for a moment. He not only feels sorry that his girlfriend is going through this. Someone is saying exactly what he feels out loud and putting words to something that until now he had no was to describe. It’s a powerful thing when that happens.

  7. miados

    i thought i finally found a lake i could handle. i need to pass 2 tests to get tech certified and i passed the first, but then i failed the second and now i am struggling to get on my feet so to speak to study and retake test two….. not quite the same because she is capable and im a loser but still….. failing when i expect it is one thing but failing when i worked hard and thought i had a CHANCE shatters me in a sense…..

    sigh sorry for the rant this one just hit a little closer and i am finally getting back a little to get the certification even though i stalled a little over a fortnight from my failed test to get back.

    1. Leorale

      I hope you will win this time!

    2. Tan

      Hey. You’ll get through. You’ll make it.

    3. Rukduk

      Hey. You can do it. And trust me, even if you feel like one, even if everyone else says you are one, you are not a loser unless you give in. And I know it’s hard to keep at it at times. I nearly flunked college, took a year longer to get my degree as a result, was unemployed for 18 months after that, then let off from three jobs in as many years before getting on my feet. During any day during that nine year period I was certain, certain I was a loser. So from personal experience I know it’s hard. But you can do it. I believe you can. And so do others here. And don’t apologize for the rant. When things hit close to home, and you feel that you need to let things out, then do it. Let them out. This comment section is a safe place to do that in my opinion, which isn’t always true.

    4. Jason

      I’m going to go the opposite direction of Rukduk.
      Maybe you will fail again. But failing once, or twice, or a hundred times doesn’t make you weak, or a failure, or pathetic. It means that you failed- and you KEPT TRYING. And I know that it can be so easy to feel weak and like giving up, and so hard to look at that and remember that that makes you strong and driven.

      Try to take time to look after yourself. Self care is important. And when you fail at things (and this is applies for many things in life) step back, ask yourself why, and when you have an honest answer from yourself you’ll know if you either can fix it and do it again, or find a path that works better for you. Knowing and understanding yourself are incredible tools against heartbreak.
      And remember- if you’re still trying to get better, to push forwards and do more, that makes you better than the majority of people who are content to settle, be mediocre, and exist instead of really living.

    5. Guairdean Beatha

      Try, fail, learn, try, fail better next time. I went through a lot of down times, and learned a lot of lessons. The biggest lesson is that failure is temporary, and sometimes it teaches you the best lessons. You only really fail when you quit.

  8. poofdepoof

    I dislike that he points with the hand that’s underneath Dorothy. Poor Dor’s shoulder

  9. C.T. Phipps

    I actually think this is a valuable lesson for Dorothy as the idea you just have to pull yourself up by your bootstraps in order to succeed in America is perhaps one of the most singularly BAD ideas for any sort of politician to have imaginable. Also, I’m wondering if Dorothy really wants to spend 90% of her time gladhanding and fundraising since that’s the majority of what politics is. I kind of wonder where she got the idea it’s about education and merit.

    Did she get this from her parents? It certainly can’t have been from politicians themselves.

    1. Mav

      Probably from her parents, since she says they were very supportive. Probably from her prior schooling too. It’s a very typical and very sugarcoated lesson that students learn pretty much from kindergarten to high school.

      So when they succeed = you can do *anything* based on merit, which doesn’t take into account real world limitations at all

      And when they fail = you fail because there’s something wrong with *you*, it can’t be due to any other factor like mental health, school access, etc.

      I think that part of why she’s taking this so hard. She’s used to being the best, brightest, smartest, etc in the room and from her conversation with Billie, not being the best student is the most she’s ever had to deal with since it was the worst thing she could think of happening to her. So she’s not used to failure at all. I think in a way this is still Dorothy dealing with not getting into Yale.

      If Dorothy wants to become a politician, she must learn how to deal with conflict and failure as it relates to HER, and the fact that she’s gonna get a lot of shit from people her whole life, even if it’s for shitty reasons.

      1. Tan

        Soooo…. That crepe and milkshake place..?

    2. Tom T.

      It’s just a different skill set that she’s never had to learn. She’s never wanted anything before where she has to *persuade* people to her point of view, so she’s never picked up how to do that. Up to now, in general, the things she has wanted have been the rewards that come with schoolwork and good grades, and she probably didn’t really even realize that politicking is a skill all its own.

    3. CJ

      Probably thinks being a politician is about being ressourcful and making good choices. She doesn’t seem to have taken power-play into account at all, or that popularity and presenting in certain ways are more important than that you really know why doing xyz is better than doing abc.
      Just the kind of naïveté I had that age.

      She is going after the theory of th democratic process, not ist 21st century life incarnation.

    4. hof1991

      Yes. You can accomplish anything translates into “if you fail you’re a loser-SAD”.

      Your librarian recommended reading for today is
      https://www.amazon.com/Bright-sided-Positive-Thinking-Undermining-America/dp/0312658850/

  10. Kernanator

    Boy, this isn’t hitting home for Walky, no siree!

  11. UltraKyrie

    Turns out walky and dorothy have more in common then they think. Difference is, she’s willing to talk about it

    1. BloodLily16

      Though, in all honestly, Dorothy’s kinda drunk right now. Which probably has a lot to do with that.

  12. Ivy

    How did Dorothy get in, does she have a key to Walkys room?

    1. Bagge

      She has the key to his heart

    2. Fart Captor

      He probably didn’t have the door locked. I rarely locked the door to my room while I was in it unless I was sleeping or nude.

      1. Rukduk

        See, I was too paranoid about by my nihilistic drunken asshole roommates to do that while in college.

      2. Nono

        The two don’t have to be mutually exclusive!

  13. Some1

    Noir Dumbing of Age

    Narrator: Joyce sat at her desk, she had a Tootsie Pop in her mouth, and a stack of Monkey Master comics under a mug with the words “Jesus Loves You!” Printed in colorful letters.

    Joyce (monologue): There hasn’t been a decent case in months, and the last one I did was just some newspaper dame looking for a girlfriend. I need money, and I need it fast.

    Narrator: Suddenly, the door opened and a girl, who Joyce recognized as being the old R.A walked in.

    Joyce: Ruth I presume?

    Ruth: You assume correctly.

    Joyce: So what brings you to my humble abode?

    Ruth: I need your help.

    Joyce: YOU HAVE A CASE FOR ME EEEEE!

    Ruth: Really dropped the ball on the whole cool badass shtick there Joyce.

    Narrator: Joyce resumes her posture and clears her throat.

    Joyce: Sorry, sorry…so what is a dame like you doing here?

    Ruth: Call me that again and I’ll slit your throat

    Joyce: Sorry…sorry…

    Ruth: Point is I need your help…Mary has been murdered.

    1. Bagge

      Dun dun duuuuuun

    2. Tualha

      Joyce: Ah, I see. You have an alibi?

      Ruth: Sure do. I was in class with two dozen witnesses when it happened.

      Joyce: Tsk. Sorry, Ruth. I don’t think you’ll be able to take the credit for this one.

      Ruth: Damn!

    3. Socks in Sandals

      oh YES! 😀

      (All that is missing now the part where she is walking down a darkened street in heavy rain, pondering.)

    4. Jhon

      NOT NOIR ENOUGH!

  14. C.T. Phipps

    Dorothy should marry Walkerton and use him as her charismatic puppet while she does all the policies.

    1. JepMZ

      I’m gonna need some mind bleach for instantly imagining fists

      1. Clif

        She could be a trophy Michievellia.

    2. JBento

      November 8 just showed us how well that works out if you’re aiming for a presidency.

      1. C.T. Phipps

        It almost worked but a giant Cheeto won instead due to the peculiarities of the American electoral system?

        1. BBCC

          Yeah – seriously, guys, the election doesn’t need to prove you wrong about the American people. You were PROVEN RIGHT – they voted for Hillary. The electoral college is a silly peculiarity. The people WERE smart enough to peg Trump for what he is and vote for Hillary. The result is a misfortune of geography and silly planning.

        2. StClair

          Enh – in a sane and/or educated world (electorate), he never would have even been on the ballot, let alone gotten almost half the vote (of those who bothered to).

        3. BBCC

          True enough. But specifically speaking in regard to whether they’re dumb enough to vote him into office, the answer is no. Americans are not that dumb. The dumb ones just happened to live in the right states.

  15. Shiro

    Same, Dotty, same.

    1. Leorale

      Too relatable, Dorothy, whyyy

  16. newllend(henryvolt)

    …The only real failures we have is excepting a ideology that we can’t improve ourselves beyond where we are now once we find a limitation, if you can’t improve a weakness find a way to make up for it.

  17. Carms

    man Dotty’s cadbury as hell

    1. Cypherfox

      I…I must only imagine that’s an auto-substitution for something else? What word did you attempt to use that got converted into ‘cadbury’? I imagine drunk, sexy, sloshed, arrogant, and all kinds of other words, but maybe…maybe you just put ‘cadbury’ in to mess with my head…?

      Wait, I’ve now Urban Dictionary‘d that bongo, and I see…an easily-drunk person. TIL…TIL.

  18. BloodLily16

    In all honesty, between Roz and Dorothy, I’d rather pick Dorothy. Even though I know that all Robin’s policies are trash, Roz outing her sister is a really d*ck-ish move, and the way she acts generally rubs me the wrong way.

    She might be likeable, but she’s not very responsible, and I feel like it would be bad in the long run if she was made RA, which is a good contrast to Dorothy, who, her lack of emotional bonds notwithstanding, is the sort of person who would make a safe, up to snuff area for everyone to live in, if only for the grades.

    That being said, I’m curious as to how this bit of development is going to go for her.

    1. Peter

      Roz has many things in common with her sister. Her own agenda is more important to her than most other things (or people). Her sister has shown that she can step away from that, on occasion, and be more than just a narcissist. But can Roz?

    2. Zaxares

      Dorothy is a better choice for RA. She’s responsible, organized and perhaps most importantly of all, she doesn’t have an agenda to push. She will be awesome in a role where her duty is to care for and look out for the people under her.

      But at the same time, I have to admit that Dorothy doesn’t really have the… charisma to be a leader. You know, the type who can rally people around them and motivate them to pursue a goal that seems so hard and so far away, by sheer virtue of their magnetism and their conviction.

      To be fair, you don’t ALWAYS need a leader. In peacetime, or when things are good, a manager-type like Dorothy in charge can be better for the people overall because they keep things running smoothly. But when the chips are down, people are anxious/scared/depressed, or when your company/country must tackle a problem that seems too big or too difficult to solve, and you need someone to give them hope and a cause to rally behind, THAT’S when you need the leader-type.

      1. Killjoy

        The “we need a leader!” and “all hail charisma!” thing, the triumph tribalism and of gut feelings over hard facts, is how we ended up with a petulant ignoramus in the White House.

        1. BBCC

          A) You act like leaders are a bad thing. They are not. Any position of authority includes leadership skills. Now, that being said….

          B) Dorothy has pretty decent leadership skills. Her issue is day to day casual social skills. She’s not good at those. And those are a valid skill an RA needs. Roz does have more of those than Dorothy. Now does that mean Roz would make an inherently better RA than Dorothy? Of course not. It means she has a leg up on her in ONE VALID SKILL an RA needs. Dorothy has a leg up on her in organization, patience, and listening skills. Roz has a leg up on her when it comes to awareness of social issues and on having resources. Neither of them are good at private information. Both might have issues with the disciplinary side of things (Roz might be too harsh and obnoxious, Dorothy doesn’t tell people when they’re being shitty – see: Her with Joyce and her homophobia or million ingrained bigotries). I think they’d both make decent, albeit flawed, RAs. Almost every girl on the floor would, tbh (based on what we know of them and assuming they were all willing to accept the job).

          I reeeaaaaaaalllllllyyyyyyyy wish Billie was on the road to recovery because she’d make a brilliant RA.

        2. trlkly

          Stuff like “we need a leader” or “you need charisma” aren’t about actual leadership, though. They’re about the appearance of such. They are used to promote authoritarians. Someone who can negotiate well is not considered a leader, even though they have better leadership skills.

          Then there’s the other part of being a leader–knowing where to go. It requires intelligence and insight. You can be very convincing but be a horrible leader because you lead everyone into disaster. You can enjoy the thrill of being able to control things, but have no idea where to take them.

          If we didn’t have our stupid monkey brains, we could just depend on people to make rational decisions, and convincing people would not involve coming off as a “leader,” making us psychologically want to suspend our own thinking and follow them.

        3. BBCC

          That’s why genuine leadership skills are not only about charisma. They also involve, like you said, patience, intelligence, listening, negotiation skills, etc. That said, being (again, genuinely, not just appearing to be) convincing, charismatic and persuasive are also part of leadership skills because they involve convincing people you know what you’re doing. They’re two parts of actual leadership skills. If you only have one or the other, you’re not going to have a very effective leader. One is definitely better than the other (i.e. an awkward but intelligent and competent person is definitely better than a charismatic but short sighted and ignorant fool) but having both is where you can get really solid leaders. Dorothy has, overall, good leadership skills on the more cognitive side, but she’s not good at the charismatic and emotional side. And emotions are important for rational decision making, as they help assign value to things and ensure you take care of your health (particularly your mental health).

          I’m not talking about people who fake charisma and leadership skills, I’m talking about the real deal, both on the cognitive and the charismatic side. Dorothy is good at one, and is decent at the other, for the most part, but her weakness is day to day casual socializing. That’s okay, we all have blindspots. This is just one that she’s confronting now.

        4. Zaxares

          Absolutely. I did not mean to imply in my original post that charisma was the be-all and end-all when it comes to making a good leader. You also need empathy, vision, at least a certain amount of intelligence, and perhaps most important of all, the ability to manage other people and to delegate tasks to individuals who are better than you in certain areas. There have been many great leaders throughout history, but I dare say none of them have ever been talented in every one of these areas. Their success ultimately comes from being able to recognize their flaws and to allow other people to step up when they see the situation calls for them.

          In this case, for instance, I actually think that if Dorothy and Roz were to team up and run the RA job as a pair (with Roz being the mouthpiece and frontman and Dorothy handling the day-to-day details of the job), they would do a far better job together than they could alone. Each of them has skill sets that would superbly complement the other.

        5. BBCC

          Exactly. I think both of them have skills that are good for leadership (and no, I don’t think Roz is all charisma – she does know something about day to day grunt work and responsibility for things like deadlines, from her volunteering with Planned Parenthood and from her work on the school paper, as per word of willis) and they both have skills good for being an RA. They just happen to both be different skills.

          If they could split the gig and decide who was responsible for what, that’d be neat. For example, Roz is good at day to day socializing, so she can do the ‘go up and down the hall’ rounds. Dorothy is good at organizing, so she can plan the meetings. Someone needs to be told what they did wrong gently? Dorothy. Someone needs to be verbally hit with a brick? Roz. Someone’s being a bigoted asshole? Roz. Someone needs help negotiating with their roommate? Dorothy. Someone needs crisis resources? Roz has plenty. Someone is wondering about this academic campus event thing? Dorothy.

          Damn. Looks like they’re two halves of a whole perfect RA.

        6. Killjoy

          Yes, in fact, I would say that “leaders” are more of a bad thing than good.

          Hierarchies and authority are necessary evils, needed only because of the realities of human behavior.

        7. BBCC

          Then I think I’m going to have to fundamentally disagree with you. Any large structure needs someone who is good at directing people and organizing things if its going to remain cohesive.

        8. 3oranges

          I’d say “leader” can mean two things. One who trailblazes a path to where others are having trouble finding the way on their own, and one who expects everyone else to walk behind them to where they choose to go. The first is excellent and the second awful.

        9. Fart Captor

          If they’re a necessary evil, by definition they kinda need to be more of a good thing than bad. Otherwise, it wouldn’t make sense to consider them necessary.

        10. Jhon

          A leader says, “Let’s go that way!”

          A wannabe says, “Um, I think we should go the other way… for reasons?”

      2. Dalben

        From the college’s point of view Dorothy is probably the better choice, because they just want someone who will enforce the rules, mediate disputes, and report problems up the chain of command as appropriate. They don’t need someone who can organize or inspire people just someone who will limit their liability. Dorothy certainly would try to do that more than Roz, but she’d probably have a hard time getting anyone to listen to her short of constantly writing people up for infractions and since she has a huge desire to be liked and some confidence issues I’m not sure she’d do that either. Roz is better at getting people to listen to her, but doesn’t really strike me as a rules,enforcer or dispute mediator.

        The students presymably want someone who will let them do what they want , while keeping other dorm Mayes from bothering them. So probably the majority would be happy if Roz didn’t enforce rules against alcohol or appliances whereas opinion on say rules against noise would probably depend on whether you were the one throwing a,loud party or practicing your cello or you were the one trying to study or get some sleep. A good leader might be able to manage the different expectations, but the individual students would probably prefer someone who just agreed with them to a good leader. Also here again, Roz would probably v e better at this than Dorothy if she tried, but I feel like she would be more like F it, do whatever you want as long you don’t bother me and Dorothy would just be ignored.

        1. BBCC

          Constantly writing up students wouldn’t be good for the school either. Part of the point of dorm life is to learn to live with other people. For instance, if Carla got written up for having a normal volume conversation with Billie because it disturbed Mary’s studying during the middle of the day, the university would probably say ‘Dorothy, really? This is not a big deal. Tell Mary ‘too bad’. There’s a study room down the hall, she can go there’. The dorm wants big rules enforced, but they also don’t want a million complaints. Part of the RA’s job is to decide whether or not this is really worth their time. If it’s not, and writing people up is the only way Dorothy can get people to listen, the school is not likely to be very sympathetic.

    3. Killjoy

      Look up “self-righteous” and “holier-than-thou”.

      You’ll see a picture of Roz.

      1. DonDueed

        Really? I tried it and found a picture of Mary.

        1. Killjoy

          Either or. There’s little difference.

        2. BBCC

          Until Roz tries to blackmail and harass someone into suicide and cares more about being caught than the person maybe dying, Roz and Mary are not morally equivalent and interchangeable.

        3. Spencer

          She’s not as bad, but Roz still deserves a spot on the shitlist, and it’s not like Mary’s any worse than Ruth was at the start of the comic.

        4. BBCC

          That’s totally fair not to like Roz. My objection is that she’s morally equivalent to Mary. She is not.

          I’d also argue Ruth isn’t, even at the start – they’re both bullies and they’re both nasty, but Ruth likewise hasn’t driven anyone to suicide attempts and then proceeded to not care.

        5. Spencer

          Ruth and Mary both pulled blackmail, harassment, and used positions of authority to single out victims over outrageous grudges and then Ruth forced herself onto Billie for good measure, on top of actually striking her more than once.

          And Mary didn’t friggin’ drive Ruth to suicide. Ruth was on that path without her, because the entire reason she was with Billie was because they were going to kill themselves.

        6. BBCC

          Yeah, hence why I said they were both bullies and nasty. I’m not gonna pretend Ruth was acting like some sort of good person at the start.

          That said, I am holding Mary responsible for that particular suicide attempt because her blackmail and the breakup with Billie (which was a direct result of said blackmail) were both a huge chunk of what caused her to just lie down and wait to die. When Mary found this out, she was more concerned about nobody finding out what she’d done than Ruth’s life and the next day asked Billie to let her harass Carla to suicide. Even if Ruth’s wasn’t intentional (and I don’t believe it was) she has no intentions of owning that her actions nearly caused a suicide. If you harass someone with suicidal depression and they end up committing suicide in part as a result of that, you can be called to account for that regardless of whether they were already suicidally depressed. You can’t say you didn’t let a gun go off because you didn’t pull the trigger, when you did everything you could to make sure the safety is off.

        7. Spencer

          Ruth hasn’t even attempted to kill herself. She shut down because her codependent suicide pact ended and she got dragged to mental health services where she needed to be, because otherwise she was eventually going to kill herself with Billie.

          Look I’m not going to “she was just trying to study” you, Mary’s a two-dimensional asshole and she’ll never not be, and I’d be thrilled to bits if getting pied in the face and shunned by the dorm was the last we ever see of her, but Mary basically just handed Ruth a pair of jumper cables and watched her strap them to her eyelids (and Mary trying to bargain for Carla is exactly what Ruth did to Billie).

        8. BBCC

          I think we’re going to have to disagree here, because I definitely count Ruth giving up and lying there waiting to die as an attempt, if a passive one.

          Handing someone the jumper cables and trying to stop anyone from helping them when they put them on their eyes still makes you culpable for it. Like I said, you can’t hand someone a loaded gun, turn the safety off, and then try to prevent anyone from helping them and then say you’re not at fault when they blow their brains out.

          Okay, I’m definitely forgetting something here – when did Ruth bargain to let her torment someone else? Refresh my memory, please? I believe you, I just don’t recall what strip you mean right now.

        9. Spencer

          Not bargain, specifically, but Ruth projected an aura of authenticity and competence to her bosses and went easy on the other people in the dorm while singling Billie out for harassment and abuse, like how Mary said she’d leave everyone alone as long as she could have Carla.

        10. BBCC

          Ahhhhh, okay! Yeah, they both picked specific people to harass for stupid reasons. Although, again, just based on impact, Mary’s still far far worse than Ruth because Mary asked if she could ‘get rid of’ Carla, implying she’d either harass her into suicide or into leaving school. Ruth’s an abusive bully. Mary is something else.

        11. Spencer

          Mary asked if she could “have” Carla, and while she is an utter shitbean who probably would gladly harass and abuse Carla, she’s also too pathetic to actually do anything to her. The last time Mary tried something on her she got a pie to the face. She’s about as threatening as a Pomeranian.

          I’m okay with thinking they’re both equally vile tbh, if only because Ruth was able to continue harassing Billie under the protection of her job. Ruth didn’t give a fuck about the impact of her actions until after she sexually assaulted Billie.

        12. BBCC

          Mary asked if she could have Carla so she could ‘get rid of’ her. While Mary would be unlikely to win if she tried, she definitely wanted to do something nefarious, even if it was looking for more blackmail, to direct against Carla this time. Even if she’s unlikely to succeed, the fact she even wants to try puts her miles above Ruth to me.

          That’s fine, but I still disagree. Ruth was a shitheel, but Mary’s actions nearly had a body count. As horrible as Ruth can be, I don’t think she’d have brushed it off and immediately looked for a new target the next day if someone tried to kill themselves because of her, even if the attempt was a passive one (of the ‘lay down and wait to die’ variety). Ruth’s got a touch more empathy than that.

        13. Spencer

          Honestly, part of the reason I have so little view on Mary’s actions is that she never succeeded at anything. She blackmails Ruth who doesn’t care. Carla pies in her in the face but Mary does nothing to get back at her. She constantly tries to get Ruth to kowtow to her and it never works. Billie punches her in the hallway and everyone in the dorm hates her. She can’t even make dismissive prejudiced asides anymore without Billie reminding her of her place. She’s just too goddamn pathetic for me to care about anything she does (except her feud with Carla. Carla pieing her in the face is still amazing and I thought was a perfect moment for Carla reclaiming her agency in the most Carla way possible), and she’s never not going to be so tiny and insignificant . She could try to actually literally murder someone and she’d probably slip on a banana peel and stab herself in the butt.

          Ruth actually succeeded at being a horrible jerkass, so for me at least, she’s stuck with the consequence of abusing her girlfriend and getting away with it. She threw Billie into the chair. She stole her uniform. She clotheslined and tripped her. She threw Billie into a wall and forced herself on her, and it wasn’t until then that Ruth finally knocked her abusive shit off (and even then she was still a jackass at her job). If Billie just kicked her ass every time she started something then I’d be more willing to focus on her positive aspects, because she’d have never succeeded at her worst actions.

          And, well, if it wasn’t for Mary forcing her to break up with Billie then the SLSP would still be going on, she wouldn’t be in therapy, she would inevitably drink herself to death, and she’d still have the job she’s an abject, abusive failure at.

        14. BBCC

          That’s fair enough. For me, whether or not they succeed is irrelevant because what Mary wants to do is on another scale entirely than Ruth. Even if she never succeeds, the fact she wants to do this thing is enough to make her far worse in my eyes.

          Ruth is awful, no argument, but Mary is a nightmare. At least Ruth HAS non-insubstantial positive aspects.

    4. JBento

      Roz didn’t out Robin. There was like, zero outing by Roz.

      1. Killjoy

        No, she only gloated and celebrated and used it to further her self-aggrandizing agenda.

        1. JBento

          Oh noes, the politician running on a homophobic platform was just delivered a blow to her base of support, therefore hampering her ability to be re-elected and continue to push homophobic policies.

          I’m crying over here, really.

        2. JBento

          The only bad part is if Leslie receives undeserved blowback. Robin can, as I’ve stated previously, go die in a fire.

        3. Killjoy

          So it’s OK to destroy people to get your way, as long as they’re “the enemy”.

          Sounds so familiar… I wonder who else thinks like that…

        4. JBento

          “The enemy” being defined as people who disenfranchise and sentence innocent people to death, yes. Destroy away. Stop pretending both sides are the same. The people who shot Nazi soldiers during WW2 are not the same as Nazi soldiers, despite both shooting people.

        5. Killjoy

          Robin is also not, despite all the sound and fury about it here, a Nazi.

        6. JBento

          She is not. Moreover, I think she is salvageable (in the sense that she might, with enough effort invested, become a not horrible person). I’m sure that would be a great comfort for all the LGBTQIAA characters that would be homeless should the bill that she voted ‘yes’ on had passed.

        7. thejeff

          She’s also not being shot.

        8. 3oranges

          Surely we can discuss the problems with “destroying” people without pretending it’s the same when it is to “get your way” of not hurting innocent bystanders, and when it is to “get your way” of making like hell for them.

        9. Spencer

          I’m okay with hating a straight for parading someone’s outing around tbh.

    5. Spencer

      If I had to choose between Roz and Dorothy I would pick who the hell cares because it’s not an election and neither of them can actually be the RA.

      1. BBCC

        They have a long shot if Chloe’s fielding competent freshmen for it.

        Them campaigning for it when its not an election is hilarious though. They’re trying so hard.

        Personally I think my first choice would be a healthy Billie. If that’s not feasible, and Rachel doesn’t want it (DAMMIT RACHEL WHY) I’d pick …probably Dorothy yeah.

  19. NF

    Relatable.

    (Both of them.)

  20. Peter

    Dorothy really needs to learn how to shrug things off and say “what the fuck”.

  21. Keulan

    Walky’s still not gonna tell Dorothy about his math troubles, is he?

  22. Hari

    Gals like Dorothy are VERY tough on themselves. =( I’ve seen them burn out quite badly.

  23. Solenoid

    IU milkshakes are now fortified with 200% the recommended daily dose of IRONY.

  24. Rukduk

    Walky, to quote Genie from Aladdin: “Tell. Her. The. TRUTH!!”

  25. Thevoiceoftreason

    I solved this existential problem by going back to a small pond and ruling.

    1. Thevoiceoftreason

      Galaso, he’s got the right idea.

  26. BenRG

    Yeah… Walky? I’m pretty sure that you buying yourself a milkshake wasn’t an existential reward for your denial and avoidance of your problems. Most people I wouldn’t say that to because I’d be sure that claiming that it was a reward was just a joke; with you, I’m not so sure!

  27. BBCC

    Oh, Dorothy. I relate to this one pretty hard. Poor girl.

    (also, off topic, but if you guys in the US want to call people about Jeff Sessions’ vote tomorrow, I’m told 5calls has a good call list if you give them your ZIP code).

  28. Badgermole

    I know very soon I will be where Dorothy is (hell, maybe I’m there already and having trouble admitting it to myself). Internet hugs to all the overachievers out there, those who worked hard for it and those who had it easy – it helps me knowing you guys are out there too.

  29. zellgato

    still wondering if those bubbles mean drunk…. or otherwise impaired in someway…

    granted i keep forgetting tocheck older commetns

    1. Tualha

      Yes, that’s a pretty standard cartoon idiom for drunk.

  30. Tualha

    Observe that the buffer is about three months long now. Is it possible this was written shortly after November 8? Because I see some parallels. Just imagine what it must have felt like for Hillary Clinton, to have worked so hard, studied all the issues, prepared for and won all the debates, spent so many years in public service, been the more capable and qualified candidate in *every way* … and to be told by the voters, nope, buzz off, we prefer the lying idiot scumbag.

    Yay America, land of opportunity, where hard work leads to success.

    1. Rukduk

      Well, told by the electoral college. She did win the popular vote by three million, which is something that’s still bothering the idiot scumbag.

    2. Rukduk

      But yeah. I understand the bitterness of that last line.

  31. Mar Mar

    This is the realest shit to me. Like you ripped it straight outta my mind.

  32. Leila

    Wow, way to finally realize that if you were Yale-bound, you wouldn’t be at Indiana, you’d be in a feeder school. *sigh Dorothy, what is the population of the small town you’re from? Definitely big fish in a small pond.

    (Has never been fond of Dorothy…)

    1. BenRG

      I, on the other hand, am generally a Dorothy fan. However, I do have to agree that her expecting an acceptance letter from Yale is a triumph of hope over reality. She might get it but she’d need to be either an exceptional talent or have amazingly rich parents.

      This realisation is going to be a bitter, bitter dose of reality for her.

      1. IllogicalBobcat

        Yeah but fuck Yale anyway. With their sweater-vests and elbow-pads and insufficiently-satanic music at far too reasonable of volumes.

        1. ValdVin

          It’s a bit deeper than that, but yeah.

          Tangentially, these top-level schools take two kinds of students. Bill Gates was raised in a millionaire household and when he dropped out of Harvard to pursue a business, he wasn’t disowned by his family. Imagine the emotional security that entails, and the financial security to drop out of Harvard.

          On the other end are the common folk, and that demonstrates merit: Where you get from v. where you started.

          Sarah’s not going to point to her great-grandpa’s name carved in granite over a building and get into IU, but IU is a big thing for her. Neither could Dorothy get into to Yale of a legacy admission or contributions; she has to do it some other way.

          Different starting points, different scale of ambition, same idea of merit applies.

        2. IllogicalBobcat

          That’s kind of the thing though, what ambition can only be achieved by going to Yale except if just going to Yale is the endgame? I mean Taft went to University of Cincinnati and some president I never heard of got his degree where I did at Miami Ohio, you don’t have to go to an Ivy League school to be president. And then in the private sector where the big winning is I know directors in tech for large companies who don’t actually have a college degree.

        3. trlkly

          It’s not an “only.” It’s a leg up thing. Going to a prestigious school where other prestigious people go is great for making a name for yourself. Plus, for the party she’s probably going for, she has to appear well educated.

          Especially when she may be the first of “her kind.” There’s a reason Obama went to Harvard to become a Senator.

          No, Yale is not the only strategy, but it’s a great help for her ambitions. The other direction would be to build up as a local politician and prove herself.

        4. thejeff

          Networking and connections. That’s what Yale or any of the big name Ivies are about.
          OTOH, I don’t think Dorothy’s shown any signs of realizing that. Or of realizing her chances of transferring into Yale are much slimmer than her chances were of getting in as a freshman. Getting an undergrad degree at IU and doing grad work at Yale is a far more likely approach.

          She’s also given no indication of how she wants to get to be President. That’s always a long shot as an ambition and will take decades anyway. Is she actually interested in a political career apart from the Presidency? Does she want to aim for Governor? A Senate seat? Is she already getting involved in local campaigns and politics? – Doesn’t look like it.

          I don’t know if she hasn’t thought it through or if Willis hasn’t. 🙂

    2. BBCC

      48 252, as of 2010.

      Pretty damn big for a small town.

      Dorothy is in Indiana because she lives here, and feeder schools are EXPENSIVE. Saying Dorothy is stupid for not going to an expensive out of state prep school she may not be able to afford is ridiculous. Yale is a long shot – Dorothy knows that. Being at IU does not make her stupid.

      1. IllogicalBobcat

        Yeah I previously looked up IU’s admission statistics and they probably wouldn’t have taken me with my B average regardless of my excellent test-scores.

        1. BBCC

          Also, I checked – most of Yale’s feeder schools are not only expensive and out of state, they’re also high school prep schools.

          On what planet is Dorothy stupid for not bankrupting her parents over high school?

      2. Dalben

        Actually it’s not THAT much of a long shot. Yale does take some transfer students, albeit a little under 3% of applicants so thats not great, and she’d have a much better chance applying to say Cornell (around 20%) or even upenn or columbia. Howevwr, according to Yale’s website and also some message boards and comments sections I looked up Yale pays especially close attention to the essay of transfer applicants and why those applicants particularly need to be at Yale and why they are uniquely good for Yale. Of course, I want to go to Yale because I got good grades and am ambitious is blah blah more of the same for Yale. But she’s reported on and/or been at least peripherally involved in a bunch of interesting or important stories such as the costumed vigilante, the kidnapping and rescue story, the sister of congresswoman sex tape story, not to mention the now breaking story of her teacher supposedly go8ng out with the congresswoman, the tracking down of an attempted rapist (and presumably previously actual rapist) story. If she could actually write a bunch of good stories about these things and play up the reporter angle she might get in. Admittedly this would involve betraying some of her friends, but she does (theoretically) want to be a politician after all so it’s good practice.

        As for becoming president I don’t think she even really wants to be president, it’s just her idea of what the highest achievement for an ambitious person is. That’s why she has no plan for it other than just getting good grades. If she was actually interested in politics she’d be involved in politics. It’s not like there’s a shortage of political and activist organizations in college.

        1. BBCC

          Huh, so it’s not as long of a shot as I’ve worried. Neat!

          Her ‘why’s for Yale may not be particularly impressive, but her ‘why I’m good for Yale’ would be impressive if she played up reporting and, presumably, her volunteer

  33. BenRG

    Just in case anyone was wondering: Dorothy is a maudlin and introspective drunk. In other words: Don’t let her drink alone; she’ll end up miserable.

    1. Guairdean Beatha

      Sadly, if you drink with her, you’ll probably both end up miserable.

      1. IllogicalBobcat

        Depends. This kind of drunk is usually really easy to trick into having fun when they drink if you watch for the right time to act, or if there’s a foosball table available. It helps to have a fairly unshakably positive attitude, though.

    2. Fart Captor

      I’m pretty she was already miserable about these things before she got drunk. I think the booze was more responsible for getting all goth poet with Carla earlier, though it’s probably not helping now, either

  34. altalemur

    i am definitely still sympathizing with Dorothy. immutable limitations vs very difficult task, is hard to distinguish.

    1. Killjoy

      Then there’s that moment in life, when one realizes that everything one wants in life is on the other side of an impossible chasm.

  35. Rachel

    See, this is why that final panel from the other day – and pretty much most Dorothy arcs – hit me really hard. Granted, I’m definitely not her level of smart. Like at all. I’m the opera singer version of her sooooo basically take away all the extracurricular stuff she does plus the extra classes (because are you kidding?? what music major has time for that????) and then imagine that same amount of energy being poured into one, single long-term goal.

    And after all that effort then thinking to yourself, “Gosh, maybe I can’t have a singing career because my anxiety makes me really bad at networking.” Or, “I have an assistantship at the school I attend for my Master’s but I don’t go to Juilliard so is my career basically over before it begins?” Or, “I am literally in the largest pool of applicants for my voice type no matter what I do or where I go – I have to be better than literally everyone or just ‘great’ will never, ever be good enough…why do I do this again?”

    The answer is obviously that I’m a crazy artist person and we have to suffer for art or something. Ok, no, I do love what I do. So much. I wouldn’t stay if I didn’t. But Dorothy’s struggle here is so real to me. This is the kind of doubt I go through all the time. And sometimes you don’t know what it is that you think is “wrong with you” or “holding you back” and so many times it has NOTHING to do with you but you’ll never know because no one is going to contact the 500 singers that auditioned for them with precise, personalized feedback. So you keep guessing and you keep auditioning and sometimes you get lucky but most times you don’t.

    I suspect Dorothy is better-liked than she feels right now. She’s not “the favorite” by any means but I think everyone knows that she means well. While this particular hallway of people might not appreciate being pandered to, they’re also smart enough to see that Dorothy is potentially the most practical choice; but Roz has also proven that she’s plenty smart and practical when she needs to be. It’s not necessarily that Dorothy is lacking some ultimate quality that will keep her from success or that Roz is somehow better than her in some way. Perhaps Roz, with her excellent socializing skills, just has a better mix of qualities preferred for the position – so that she may not be the most qualified for the paperwork and more serious duties but could certainly handle them and also keep everyone happy and under control. Meanwhile, Dorothy is perfect for those scenarios but would probably struggle with community events and being able to check on people without it looking like ticking off a list (good intentions coming from her but can seem unnatural and disinterested to those who don’t know her). So who is the better candidate? I would say they’re fairly equal but I would prefer Dorothy because she matches my personality type better – and I think that’s what it comes down to here. Personality and preference. Which, as an artist whose instrument is literally a part of my human body, is a struggle I easily recognize as difficult not to take personally. Hang in there, Dorothy. <3

    1. Bagge

      I can also recognize a bit of what Dorothy is feeling. You have your goal so clear in sight. You know the path there, you know you will have to work hard, and struggle and there will be setbacks…

      …but in the end, if you stay true to yourself, do your best, don’t betray your principle and never forget the joy that brought you to your chosen path in the first case – you still don’t have a guarantee you will succeed in competition with all the equally talented and honest and smart and awesome people that surrounds you.

      Personally I take comfort in the fact that even if I maybe won’t get exactly what I want, there are many paths that are close enough – and more importantly, that will allow me to do and communicate the thing that brought me joy in the first place. (In my case, it’s science. There are many ways to stay in the science community that don’t involve tenure).

      I also take great comfort in the words of E.O. Wilson. “Advice for young scientists: Go for it!”

  36. Killjoy

    Cognitive Dissonance and Backlash

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H4lXpqligQ

    1. JBento

      Bill Nye, never not swinging against the stupid. You guys couldn’t have made him president instead?

      1. Rukduk

        God I wish we had. Or Neil deGrasse Tyson. Unfortunately we’ve become a political oligarchy ruled by a class of professional politicians and lobbyists, the revolt against which led to the election of Pisswig McGee passed on an outdated but de facto unamendable electoral process.

        1. Mav

          His constituents have been voting against their own interests for decades. They keeping repeating that they “won” over basically anyone who’s not a straight white man who has the audacity to exist, and once again they learn that they are fools to ever think that this man or the people he’s shoved into his administration give a shit about them. Rich white people (and rich people in general) have never given a shit about them. Never.

          See: the plans to repeal/destroy ACA, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc. – which these demographics disproportionately depend on. Even white women statistically benefit the most from Affirmative Action. (And they feel just fine because they can build a wall to spite the Mexican government, who’s just going to overcharge us or take their business elsewhere and leave us to find hundreds of products somewhere else! They can fill in these “stolen” jobs, none of which they’d be caught dead doing anyway, not that these companies want to actually pay US wages anyway. Mexicans are not the only illegal immigrants in this country.)

          Not in 1980s, not when Bush was president, not now. But that’s the kind of people they are. So they just vote for the same type of person with a different face. They’re fine with living in poverty and suffering and dying, as long as they can take as many minorities as they can with them. Their wickedness, pettiness, vindictiveness, and narcissism will always outweigh their instinct to survive. Therefore they will make the stupidest decisions every. single. time.

          They are literally destroying the country and the planet because they can’t stand the idea of anyone else getting their place in the sun. Think about that. They are literally saying, “I’d rather no one have anything if I can’t get everything.”

        2. BBCC

          Additional points

          – Most illegal immigration these days is done via flight. So that wall won’t do shit.

          – If people really think that border taxes will keep manufacturing jobs in the US, they are incorrect. They’ll just mechanize the whole thing.

        3. Fart Captor

          Actually, most illegal immigration doesn’t even involve entering the country illegally. Most come here legally and overstay their visas.

          Walls and additional screening won’t do a goddamn thing about that.

        4. BBCC

          That is a good point! I know most people who do end up illegally immigrating get into the country via flight though, so even if it DID depend on how they get in, the wall isn’t a solution.

        5. Killjoy

          This is the sort of one-size-fits all, “it’s about ignorance and hate” comment, the sort of “what’s wrong with you idiots?” statement, that sheds a lot of heat, but almost no light, and just serves to widen the divide.

          If you keep insisting that people who didn’t vote the way you did are all just small-minded fools who are engaged in an epic level of pettiness, driven by hate for anyone not just like them (the irony is thick) then we’re going to be right back here again.

        6. JBento

          Are you saying that we shouldn’t call Trump voters shitty people because that’ll make it harder for progressives to make them THEIR useful idiots, or because they actually aren’t shitty people? Because they totally are.

          It’d be one thing if Trump had pulled a bait and switch, running on a platform of acceptance and progressiveness and, once in power, revealed himself as he truly is – basically, if he’d pulled a Palpatine. But he didn’t. Trump stood on podiums in front of cameras all across the USA and declared himself a racist, misogynist xenophobe. For fucks sake, he admitted to sexual assault on camera and people CHEERED! At least one of his (female) supporters then proceeded to sexual assault a protesting woman, to show that being grabbed by the pussy wasn’t anything bad. Worse, they don’t even have the decency to be shitty and smart, if the number of clowns gloating about the repeal of the evil, useless Obamacare because they’re totally safe with their ACA is any indication.

        7. Mav

          Nope. Try again, and I’m tired of this “let’s all just get along, this is divisive” BS. That’s BS. You know why that’s BS? Because these people don’t WANT to get along with us. They are rallying behind him and his people.

          They are small minded – all they know to think about is whiteness, money, and Jesus (“Jesus” = sexism and homophobia). I’m pretty sure I summed up all the paragraphs and paragraphs and think pieces and pleadings to just “understand” people who don’t want to understand me or anyone different from them in one simple phrase. Right? “i need money (who doesn’t?), Mexicans are on welfare (so are you), corporations are taking advantage of us (you and everyone else – so of course let’s vote in a billionaire, he’s *different*), infrastructure for the poor is lacking in rural America (you realize poor people can exist in cities, right?)”.

          People are dying. Some white supremacist just shot up a mosque and murdered a bunch of people. Should I “just talk” to him? They are being detained in immigration prison and deported. He’s planning on deporting a bunch of legal immigrants next. My parents are legal immigrants. Most of the people I know are immigrants. I may be separated from these people for years. Should I just “wait and see, let’s not worry about that now?” The government wants to turn itself into a fascist dictatorship. I know I said that and i know you feel some kind of way about it but it’s true: these kinds of people think everything is about them.

          And right back where? Where is here? As far as I know, these people got us “here” in the first place. You want your country to not turn into a racist plutocracy? Stop fucking voting these sociopaths into offices around the country. You want your medicare and all that? Maybe don’t vote for the people who LITERALLY said they were going to get rid of it. It’s that simple.

          Stop trying to equate me with them. I’m not running around justifying killing black people in the street for no reason and trying to get my neighbors deported, or trying to go to war with a whole religion or engage in nuclear warfare, and crying “fake news!” every 10 minutes. And you know something – yes, I am a little bit angry about these problems. Just a little. Just a smidge. But my being angry is literally the same as doing all those things, right? And there’s nothing ironic about that. At all. I am allowed to be pissed at people who just missed the chance to deport me since I’m first generation.

          So here’s a piece of advice for you: if you keep making excuses and underestimating the legacy of race and sex relations in this country, this will only get worse. You cannot fix something if you can’t even admit there’s a problem. These people and their government made a mistake. A stupid, stupid mistake with massive implications.

          If you stick your head in the sand, you are bound to get stepped on by somebody. And believe me when I say that even though you might not identify with his targets now, they’re going to come for you. They will. Rich people of their caliber have never given a single fuck about anyone. Not unless they get something in return. And there will be no one left to stand with you, since we all got squashed as collateral damage while you wait for these people to have a come to Jesus moment most of them will never have as long as the gov. hasn’t targeted them yet.

          Don’t get me wrong – I think unity is the key that will get us out of this shit show. But I can’t partner with people who’d rather I not exist. Nothing you or I will say can ever change that.

        8. Killjoy

          And you presume that everyone who voted a certain way would rather you didn’t exist?

          It’s not about “can’t we all just get along?” — it’s about understanding the real reasons that real people did something. You can’t solve a problem if you don’t know why it’s occurring. You can’t get people to change their minds if you don’t know WHY they think what they think, why they do what they do, etc.

          Caricaturing everyone who voted for The Cheeto as a bigoted ignorant redneck is no different from the way that someone like Rush Limbaugh caricatures “liberals” as a bunch of American-hating crypto-communists who want to destroy marriage and apple pie.

          Balkanization and divisiveness and “the left” calling “the right” a bunch of racist sexist homophobic yokles is exactly what the forces of oligarchy and authoritarianism want.

          https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/03/how-to-build-an-autocracy/513872/

        9. Mav

          See my responses. I know why most of these people made these decisions. I’ve been overwhelmed with all kinds of analysis about it, all making excuse after excuse now that people are realizing what a shit show we as a nation have gotten ourselves into. I have studied Nazism, which is very similar to what’s happening now. The “divisiveness” isn’t the fault of the progressives. It’s the government purposefully making the progressives (and therefore the idea of freedom) unattractive to the government’s desired target audience. They *want* to be absolutely governed. They believe the government should have that power because they are fanatics who believe that the government always has their best interest in mind, while in reality it doesn’t (see many of these people’s opinions about abortion, sex, etc.)

          I didn’t call them rednecks. I am perfectly aware that white supremacy comes in all forms, and by the way rich people complain about poor minorities all the time. What I am trying to tell you is, their reasoning DOES NOT MATTER because look where we are now. Other people shouldn’t have to sacrifice their life and liberty for that. At some point in your life, saying “but I didn’t mean to!” isn’t gonna fix everything.

          These people are not caricatures. If you are calling them that, then you have not been paying a single ounce of attention the entire election cycle or you’re being willfully dense with me right now.

          I don’t care if they’re on the right or if they’re on the left. White supremacy is the issue no one in this country wants to talk about – and white supremacy will prevail and destroy us all as long as no one wants to call white folks out on their bullshit. That was literally the platform Trump ran on- Mexicans are rapists, blacks are criminals so send federal troops to rule them, grab women by the pussy, stop buying shit from China and Mexico, give jobs to real white Americans. It was clear for all to see. A neo-nazi is his fucking advisor and now has the ability to sit in on national security meetings.

          And his constituents didn’t care. Many have changed their minds, but many still don’t. People who have lived here for decades are being deported and they are cheering and saying “good riddance, more for me”. Even if some people who voted for him don’t think that way, they basically made the decision that all the lives that would be affected are expendable, so that’s… not really much better. This man is doing exactly what he said he would. I make conclusions based on exactly what I saw with my own two eyes and I know you saw it too.

          This was the same bullshit that came up when we tried to talk about intersectionality at the women’s march. People were saying that talking about black women and hispanic women and the fact that 53% of the white women who voted voted for trump were calling it “divisive” which is really just code designed to leave out anyone who didn’t agree with their version of feminism specifically.

          What I’m saying is, this is bigger than your ego. This is not about you. This is not about me. This is bigger than me and you and any individual. This is about preserving our union and the republic and the evolving ideals it was founded on, which these people’s boy and the Republican assholes are currently destroying – do you deny that? This is about people’s livelihood and the stopping the rise of fascism sympathy – which is currently a global phenomenon once again.

          I do want unity. I want to work with people who want to work with me. If there are former Trumps supporters who want to band together, we need them for sure. But the key is admitting that what is happening is happening. We are not gonna get anywhere surrounding ourselves with people who won’t even admit that something terrible is happening. How useful would they be?

          A threat to my liberty is a threat to yours, but you don’t seem to understand that. You seem content to sit there and lecture me about being nice to people who are violent and promote violence and depriving people of their liberties, and you seem content to limply say “but not all X did Y”. Sorry but that’s not helpful to me unless you’re *doing* something about that. The time for niceness is over. The time for rolling over is over. I am telling you that the new administration is steamrolling over our liberties, and I am not okay with that. I am not okay with the people who are okay with that. I am not okay with people telling me to wait and see what happens, or that I’m just angry and irrational, or what if I say please and thank you to the pres and maybe he won’t deport my family and disenfranchise me. That’s my problem, and that’s why I don’t want to waste my time with people who can’t get past feeling personally affronted when it’s not only about them.

          So if you don’t agree with his policies, if you’re not one of the people that I’m mentioning, then you don’t need to worry about being labeled as such. We all have people like that in our families- if I can admit that, why is it so hard for you?

        10. Killjoy

          Meanwhile, the democrats are actually showing signs of taking the right lessons from this turn of events.

          http://www.npr.org/2017/02/02/512998364/democrats-aim-for-their-own-initiative-modeled-after-the-tea-party

        11. Killjoy

          Can’t reply directly to you, so…

          As long as you’re equating the Cheeto’s win with “white people being racists”, you’re missing the point.

        12. BBCC

          And as long as you ignore the rampant racism and other bigotries in Trump’s support base, you miss the point. And no, not all that bigotry is of the ‘kill them all’ variety. A lot of it is ‘meh, this other thing is more important to me, so who cares if they get screwed over, this is more important to me’. Which is still shitty.

        13. Mav

          Also: by virtue of being a minority, I have been navigating and understanding the predominantly white American culture my entire life, because I needed to to get through school, go to work, etc. In other words, I actually have integrated myself and many others like me have as well. we have no problem living with other people – as long as they respect us.

          Not many whites in suburban areas can truly say they know and interact with more than a couple minorities. Don’t take that as me stereotyping, because it’s not – familiarize yourself with the impact race, gender and class has had on the evolution of neighborhoods and urban and suburban planning. All white neighborhoods are all white on purpose, not on accident. a lot of whites are having knee-jerk reactions to equality because A) they’ve never had to think about about issues like these, ever and B) many of them are perfectly aware of the history of American society tilting in favor of white maleness – that’s what the phrase “good old days means”. It’s not economic, because if you’re a poor white now you’d still be dirt poor with no chance at all of moving up the ladder if it were 1865 or even 1950. But if it were 1865 or 1950, you’d be better off than the black family who’s just as poor as you.

  37. JBento

    Ok, I’m confused. Exactly how does the process of confirming cabinet members (secretaries and the like; that’s the cabinet, right?) work? Apparently it’s a two-step process? At what point is it right now, about mid-way through step one?

    1. Bucket

      Pretty much a 2 step process. They’re all staggered, so some are in hearings and some have been voted on and confirmed. Look at it like a job interview. Step 1, you meet with HR, your future boss, and some colleagues for a round of interviews. These are what the Senate hearings are. Step 2, HR, your future boss, and others sit and discuss your application and interviews, and say yes or no. That’s the vote in the Senate. A filibuster would be of the department head kept yapping on about something, preventing a vote or consensus.

      1. JBento

        Thanks

    2. Reltzik

      The rough outline goes like this.

      First, the president nominates someone for the post.

      The the Senate (half the Congress) votes on whether to confirm that nomination. If the vote passes, they get the post.

      Now some curlicues:

      Before the vote, the appropriate Senate committee (which committee depends on the post) typically interviews the nominee for many hours, calling up questions about their past experience and decisions and trying to force them on the record about key issues.

      Due to a rule called cloture, it takes 60 senators to close debate and start the voting process. This is for almost any vote. Thus if 41 senators oppose the nominee, they can stop the vote from ever happening, a trick called a “filibuster”. The nominee can then never get confirmed. This is traditionally viewed as a way to force “collegiate” debate on issues, before the minority would graciously or grudgingly allow it to move forward. But during the Obama administration, it was a way for Republicans to stonewall pretty much every appointment the President tried to make.

      However, it only takes 51 votes to change Senate rules… including the rule on cloture. This gives a majority in the Senate the opportunity to change the rules so that it only takes 51 Senators to make it happen. This option was brought up many times in the past and was viewed very warily, because it was a way of completely silencing a sizable minority. It came to be known as the “nuclear option”, because . During the Obama administration, after years of unprecedented stonewalling, Democrats passed the nuclear option for all nominees save to the Supreme Court. Now there’s talk about using the nuclear option for Trump’s Supreme Court nominee as well.

      Where it’s at right now depends on the particular nominee. Some of them have been confirmed. Most of them are still being reviewed by the Senate. There’s a lot of eagerness from Republicans to fast-track the nominees through the Senate, and enough Democrats to prevent a filibuster from happening (it doesn’t take many) took principled stands against the stonewalling tactics during the last administration that it would be awkward for them to embrace them now. So the current tug-of-war is between fast-track rubber-stamping versus very careful scrutiny and vetting followed by a vote that is probably a gimme.

      The decision of which to do is entirely in the Republicans’ court. Democrats don’t have enough votes to force it if enough Republicans vote to fast-track. The most they can do is take principled but fruitless stands, publically shame the Republicans for their votes, and try to make that come back to haunt them next election.

      1. JBento

        Thanks.

    3. thejeff

      There’s actually two steps in the Senate, which might be what’s confusing JBento. First committee hearings, where questions are asked and speeches are made. Then, once the committee votes on its recommendation, there’s a vote of the whole Senate.
      Recent rules changes mean there is no filibuster for cabinet appointments, it’s a straight majority vote. Since Republicans have a 52 to 48 vote advantage in the Senate, they can force everything through on a straight party line vote. There are some procedural hurdles Dems can put up, but they’re basically delays.
      As Bucket said, some have made it all the way through the final vote. Others are still in process.

      1. BBCC

        Yeah, pretty much. 3 flips would be needed to stop a nomination.

      2. JBento

        This process seems needlessly complicated when applied to a two-party system. Were parties less unified way back when (and therefore having a majority meant a whole lot less than it does now) or is it a feature of the system as the people who came up with it tried to to make it as hard as possible for the average farmer to understand?

        1. BBCC

          I don’t think the founding fathers really anticipated party systems period.

        2. thejeff

          The founders railed against parties (factions, they called them at the time) and then promptly founded them once they realized they’d built a two-party system pretty much by default.
          The rest of it kind of evolved. The Constitution just says the Presidential appointments shall be made with the “Advice and consent” of the Senate. All the committees and hearings and things are how the Senate has chosen to implement that.
          The filibuster appears to be an accident, resulting from a clean up of rules back in the early 1800s that removed the rule on when to close debate and move on the question. Before that it was officially a simple majority vote.
          Until recently the US Government has functioned mostly on tradition and gentleman’s agreements. Nominees faced questioning mostly to score political points, but unless something truly noxious came up, the President got his nominees, regardless of whether his party controlled the Senate or not. The GOP, and to a lesser extent the Democrats, have been exploiting the actual rules much more diligently in the last few decades and it’s getting to the point of making the country ungovernable.

        3. JBento

          Thanks. Especially for this:

          “The founders railed against parties (factions, they called them at the time) and then promptly founded them once they realized they’d built a two-party system pretty much by default.”

          This encapsulates politics to a T, doesn’t it? We’re totally against it. Oh gods people caught us doing it? Then we’ve totally done it, and it was totally on purpose. Yes. And that was the plan all along.

    4. BBCC

      For anyone waiting for the Senate votes, 5calls.org has great call lists and scripts. All they need is your ZIP code.

  38. Bluewind

    Remember my landlord who I had a long talk with explaining sexuality, transgender, and atheism who I thought I helped? Welp, she just outed in front of my neighbors. Second sentence she said too. No build up. Just ” This is [my name]. She is a polysexual.” I’m freaking the fuck out. I’m not sure how I kept calm with my insides screaming.

    1. Spencer

      That’s fucking awful. I’m so sorry to hear that.

      1. Bluewind

        It got worse (see below), but I’m feeling better now thanks to a long talk with my best friend and a very strong mixed drink.

    2. JBento

      That’s awful. I’m sorry that happened to you.

      *offers hugs*

      What were the neighbours reactions? Can you gauge if everyone went “meh, whatever” or if any are liable to make your life difficult?

      1. Bluewind

        The guy didn’t say anything. The woman said “Huh. Never heard of that before.” But still, I don’t know them well enough to not worry. They could always tell the wrong person. I’m already kinda ostracised, but the wrong person could harass, bully, or threaten me or even put me in danger. It has me on edge and will for a while.

    3. Mav

      I’m so sorry. She had no right to do that. There’s nothing worse than “allies” who try to “help”, which usually means drawing attention to themselves in some way at people’s expense. They can be so damn self centered. I’m really, really hoping your neighbors are not prejudiced and they will not make your life difficult.

      1. Bluewind

        You and me both. You know… I’ve been called not really part of the community and not facing the same level of bigotry others do so much that I’ve forgotten that I’m not just a strong ally in a position to strongly empathize. I am a part of that rainbow. I just hope I can be my own ally or at least have people who have more tact than a diarrhetic duck at a wedding party.

    4. Bagge

      So sorry about that shit. All the internet hugs!

      1. Bluewind

        *divides up all the Internet hugs to give to those who need them and everyone that replied here*

    5. Fart Captor

      That’s fucking terrible!

      Is it possible that she didn’t understand that was confidential info? Or is it naive of me to hope for ignorance rather than malice?

      1. Bluewind

        I told her to keep it between us, but I think she honestly had no clue. I think it was part ignorance and part novelty. Still, I rather didn’t enjoy the first pertinent identifier for me in her mind was being polysexual. I felt like I was in a “my gay friend x” trope except real and jarring.

        1. Fart Captor

          Ugh. That’s better than your landlord doing it on purpose to needle you, but it still sounds scary as shit.

        2. Bluewind

          My town has gotten a lot more unsafe for people who are different since Trump too office. It’s scary knowing that information is out there now not knowing if it will be spread or not. What scared me was how the librarian reacted when I got stupid afterwards. Plus she has access to my information through my library card. I want to move to another town or maybe even another state, but my dad is here. I want to be here for him. I might change my tune if things keep progressing as they are. You couldn’t pay me to go to church and going fully back in the closet is something I refuse to do because of the toll it took on me mentally, so faking it is not an option.

    6. Liliaeth

      It’s how I feel about a collegue of mine. She occasionally talks about one of the people at one of the posts she works at for our company. (we’re both cleaning women) Talking about her by name, and the name of the company, and talking about how the woman in question is transgender. Giving us some private information on this poor woman. (like about her previous marriage, and so on)

      And a lot of the time I feel like, why are you telling us this? Is it any business of ours for you to just out this woman like that? I’ve tried telling her this, but…

      I mean, it’d be one thing if she didn’t gave the woman’s name, and other identifying markers, but…

      1. Bluewind

        Oh yeah. It was really weird that day talking to me when she started talking about her transwoman tenant having no clue how I felt about it. I’m not sure what people like that are trying to accomplish to tell you the truth. Are they trying too hard to show exactly how okay they are with it and draw attention to themselves? Are they pointing out people as “other”? Are they fascinated by the “novelty” of it? Are they trying to do something good, but just really suck at it? What?

        1. Liliaeth

          With my colleague it seems to be a combination of the novelty and trying to come to grips with it. And from what she’s said, the woman seems to be out at her company. But just because she’s told her employees,doesn’t mean that she’d be comfortable with people outside of her immediate circle knowing about it;

    7. BBCC

      What the fuck?

      I’m so sorry, honey. That’s awful. Hugs if wanted!

      1. Bluewind

        Hugs always accepted 🙂

    8. Bluewind

      So a bit of an update. I made things worse.

      On top of (see above), I found out that my move in date had been moved back up to 4 weeks (it was originally the first week of January). I went in the library because I knew my anxiety was up too high for me to drive safely. I figured I could watch videos in there on my phone for a bit and then leave.

      One of the women who works in the library noticed I didn’t look so hot and talked to me. She asked what was wrong. I had known her through the library a couple of years and she seemed nice, so I was like fuck it and told her the short version. I know now I shouldn’t have said anything, but wasn’t the most clear headed at the time.

      She got nasty really fast. She used hate speech and her tone was aggressive and hateful. I’m not EVEN gonna repeat ALL the stuff she said to me and called me which of course made my anxiety WORSE. She found me disgusting as well as my “choice” and said I was going against god, needed to go to church and read my bible because I was sick, and that I was straight because I use to be with a man. She insulted trans saying it wasn’t a real thing, you are born a man or a woman, and they “needed to be in a nut house”. She really let loose on me when I told her “I don’t do church”. She even found time to insult wiccans which unbeknownst to her my best friend is.

      So why didn’t I leave? I couldn’t. I couldn’t drive safely and there was nowhere I could safely walk to. So I was stuck there listening to her tirade and long after. I sat in the corner of the library watching videos feeling like shit stuck to the bottom of someone’s shoe for hours until I knew it was safe to drive and I left. I did fight back against her hate, but I could only do so much.

      When I got home, I tried to hide it but dad knew something was wrong, so I broke down crying. I kept it simple and told him my move out date had been moved back 4 weeks, someone told something about me that wasn’t their right to tell, and a woman at the library had basically bullied me. He gave me a hug (rare for him), said if I figured out their names to let him know (implying either harsh words or fists depending), and then handed me a mixed drink before going back to making super. Now THAT’S when you know you’ve had a bad day folks. When your daddy shares his whiskey. XD

      1. BBCC

        Fucking. HELL.

        That librarian needs several several doses of ‘go fuck yourself’. Who gave her the right? Her job is to provide information to people and let them access the facilities resources, not act like a complete fuckface.

        That is awful. I’m glad your dad wasn’t shitty tonight, but I’m sorry any of it happened at all. Screw your landlord and screw the librarian.

        1. BBCC

          Again, all the hugs

        2. Bluewind

          Thanks hun. It’s gotten a lot worse thanks to the bigotry fountain that is Trump, but I think this was the worst interaction yet. It’s hard to be a Democrat in this town much less a polysexual atheist Democrat. It’s starting to scare me. I keep to myself so that helps but it’s still a HUGE source of stress for me. Sometimes I wish I could keep my head down and go, but I just can’t let them think that’s okay or that their actions do some kind of good. I’m not gonna go to your church or any church for that matter and I don’t care how much ya badger me! The librarian even said that she has two gay guys that she likes, but they know their choice is wrong and that everybody like that and who are (insult she used to refer to trans people) should move away because this isn’t the town for them. That everybody’s not gonna be okay with their choice and they can’t force them to be. Your standard hateful bullshit.

        3. BBCC

          Wow. What an asshole and what a terrible librarian. Fuck her.

        4. Bluewind

          Agreed. I’m not proud to admit it, but when I first heard about trans* people, it confused me and made me a little uneasy. But I didn’t stay that way long. I did research. I studied. I learned. It changed a lot of my worldviews breaking my concept of binary genders. I even came to the realization that I was attracted to some of the non binary genders. I think a lot of people who act like she did don’t go further. They don’t try to empathize or learn. They just let that feeling of unease fester until it becomes something truly disgusting. There is so much irony in a librarian who refuses to research or learn.

        5. BBCC

          I think I was maybe 13 the first time I met someone I knew was LGBT+. They were my friend and so I kinda shrugged and said ‘okay, then’.

          It was either that or when I asked my mom what she thought about gay people and she told me my uncle was gay. I think that actually came first. Either way, it blasted out any sort of homophobic cobwebs I’d have picked up before then.

          A librarian who doesn’t want to do research is like a dentist that doesn’t like teeth. What’s the point?

        6. Bluewind

          True. I don’t think I was ever homophobic, but I still feel ashamed for my reaction to learning about trans* people. I righted myself quickly at least.

          The strangest thing is that the librarian is only a few years older than me (we are both in our 30s). She doesn’t even have advanced age as an excuse (my mamaw had no problem with it and she was born in the 1920s, so I’m aware it’s a weak excuse). She’s young enough to learn and change. She chooses to stay ignorant. I tried to argue and teach but it did no good. I’m scared for my future in this town when people like her exist. I don’t even want to know what my trans* neighbor faces here and hope she passes for her sake. She must be a very brave woman with tough skin to choose to live in a place like this. She has my respect.

        7. BBCC

          It happens. Everyone has a learning curve about things like this. I don’t remember mine very well or if I was ever homophobic or not, but if I was, A) What the fuck, younger me? B) I wish I could apologize to anyone hurt by it or even just for thinking that way and C) Thank fuck I have done more research and hopefully improved on that score.

          Huh. Yikes. Hopefully she improves herself and soon. As an aspiring librarian, she’s a disgrace.

          Yowza. That woman must have a spine of steel. My infinite respect.

        8. Bluewind

          Very much agreed.

          You’re working towards becoming a librarian? Nice. I adore books. I hope that you still find time to enjoy them. I remember working in the library as a work study for 3 years and even though I was surrounded by books every day, I read less then than I do now! XD

          Oh yes. That’s why I’m really hoping she passes and if not can handle the constant misgendering. Hell, even I get misgendered sometimes and I’m (mostly) cis female with big boobs! I think it’s from the short hair, no makeup, and a lot of my shirts coming from the men’s section (I love novelty shirts).

          I say mostly cis because I’m not 100% sure I was born 100% female. Dad said they did surgery on me saying they had to repair my downstairs. I had a second surgery as a teen (when I was only supposed to go in to be put under to check my bladder and woke up sore and confused). I identify as female and have a uterus and 1 ovary for sure (they aren’t sure if I have my left one as it’s never shown up on film), but I have a scar on my labia and I don’t have a labia minora. I have to shave my neck and sideburns and my hormones look to be low, but trying to replace them with medication makes me extremely sick and causes screaming migraines. So who knows?

  39. Tenn

    Dorothy practiced hard to be the best at everything.

    *cut to Dance Dance Revolution*

  40. StraightFace

    Intellectuals crash hard.

    Dorothy really needs to feel less.

  41. bookworm389

    And my trend of hardcore relating to Dorothy continues

  42. Local Vigiliante

    I feel like this arc represents a conflict nearly every perfectionist runs into eventually. Not social skills exactly but something that does not come naturally to them where their traditional strategies do not work, or the realization that they are in a more competitive pond and need to adapt. The interesting part will be what Dorthory will do: pursue her childhood dream anyway or exchange it for something else.

  43. BrokenEye, True False Prophet

    Someone clearly has his priorities in the right place.

  44. TPman

    Dorothy’s my new favourite.

  45. BBCC

    Panel One: Oh, Dorothy. I remember being like that. I used to berate myself horribly when I didn’t understand something because I thought I was supposed to be the smart one and so I took every failure or limit as this horrible moral failing on my part. I couldn’t even claim to be Walky because I did study. I studied all the time and read and did my homework as thoroughly as I could. People used someone typing with a lot of chatspeak as proof it couldn’t be me because I insisted on writing as close to properly as I could (aside from a couple LMAOs occasionally). So yeah, I feel Dorothy here right down deep. She’s in a vicious loop of worrying about her limits and then getting hit with them over and over and not knowing how to fix it because there isn’t always an easy fix that can be applied by reading the right book or spending a few more minutes writing something up.

    Panel Two: Awww, Dorothy. Hey, Dorothy is Batman!

    Okay, okay, jokes over (besides, we all know Sal’s the Batman of the strip). But yeah, Dorothy picked every skill she thought she had and worked on it with everything she could. Sometimes she bites off more than she can chew (and I suspect we’ll see fallout for that sometime soon – burn out’s the worst.)

    And those skills aren’t always the ones that matter, or they matter in ways that you didn’t anticipate or they matter in different values than you thought.

    Panel Three: Yup, there’s the brick wall I mentioned. No fun, but that happens. You weren’t as good at socializing on the day to day as you thought and making shallow connections. That’s not the worst thing in the world – being able to inspire people and connect as a politician is a very different beast than being able to connect on the day to day. Being a career politician doesn’t require one as much – it’s easy to connect to people competence wise (I mean, the Angry Cheeto did it). Forming day to day casual connections with neighbours might be trickier. But it’s an important skill to Dorothy and so this hurts.

    And yeah, Walky is relating hard to this because he’s hit a brick wall lately too. He put so much pride in how easily and naturally smart he was that needing to work for it is killing him.

    Panel Four: Oh, these two. Walky knows exactly how she feels right now and it isn’t fun at all. He has to deal with his math grade and eventually how his parents will react. And the resonance and, partly, the empathy for Dorothy is hitting him hard. He wants to help, I’m sure, but he’s also moreso thinking about that math grade and what mom’s going to say and she’ll be so mad and oh god is he the new Sal now, he’s supposed to be smarter than this.

    And Dorothy has poured so much into moulding herself into the perfect candidate for presidency that this is hitting hard. It doesn’t help that in universe, they’ve elected the angry cheeto the year before so she’s going into college with that over her head. That is no fun at all. She thought she had a handle on any possible qualifications but no. She’s getting hit with the socializing aspects hard. Even if it doesn’t matter as much, the ability to socialize on the day to day down time, it matters to Dorothy because she wants to be liked. And sometimes you can’t easily fix a problem. You have to live with it. It’s hard to navigate and compensate for, but not impossible. Maybe Dorothy will learn to socialize better, maybe she won’t be able to because her brain works on a million other things. Sometimes failure happens despite your best and that’s an important lesson to learn. It’s good she’s learning now instead of on the campaign trail, with her dreams so close and it hurting more. I don’t think Dorothy is doomed to fail by any means, but I do think it’d suck more if that was the moment she got her taste of it.

    Panel Five: Heh. Oh Walky. Yeah, she’s looking a bit better – more affectionate anyways. It’s starting to overtake the sad.

    And yeah, Walky is a dork who will never admit anything and that’s part of why this math problem has festered for so long. He hates telling anyone he’s having trouble. Part of that is being ‘naturally smart’, part of it is toxic masculinity, and part of it is just plain old Walkerton stubbornness. And maybe not wanting to be on the receiving side of any ill will bad grades got his sister, ouch, I made myself sad.

    And yeah, Dorothy isn’t normally a problem avoider. Sometimes that’s good, sometimes it helps to step back for a bit. And sometimes you’re just curious. And now, she’s kinda teasing him and asking how it goes for him because she doesn’t like avoiding problems and can’t see how it works. But it does help sometimes and him balancing out Dorothy’s sad by making her happy and helping distract her is perfect while she pushes him to potential.

    I mean, uh, milkshakes. Dorks. Goofy stuff, yes.

  46. Oberon

    “Definitely in favor of never admitting anything to myself.”

    Huh, I never thought of Danny as being a Trump man, but I guess it takes all types.

    1. Oberon

      Walky, damnit! I dunno why I get their names mixed up frequently. I have their characters separate, just an issue with the names.

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