Roz just pressed the secret switch that turns on Dorothy into…..Puppy Dorothy!
Yet_One_More_Idiot
Nah, it’s the switch that toggles Dorothy between ambitious President-to-be, and total goofball who is inexplicably but adorably head over heels for Walky. 🙂
a snow ʍousɐ
I think that second one is Puppy Dorothy.
Roborat
I thought that required an action figure to be bounced off her head?
Ruth deserves to get fired. No matter how many demons in her closet, no matter how much WE, as outside observers, may like her, Ruth was a horrible RA. She physically assaulted and later sexually abused a student on her floor on…..a hunch. That’s what it was.
If a guy fought with a girl all the time, and then pinned her against the wall and kissed her forcefully on the assumption that she was straight and down for it, he’d be getting fucking CRUCIFIED in the comments section. But it’s a chick who has a suspicion that another girl might be bi and down for it, and turned out to be right so she gets a pass….somehow.
Weather or not she and Billie ended up together is irrelevant, that was inappropriate behavior that should have gotten her fired a long time ago. Daisy failed at ‘being an adult’ by acting like it was no big thing and laughing it off. Let’s separate gender from the equation for a second, an imagine that an 18-year-old student comes up to a trusted older colleague and tells them that their R.A. physically assaulted and then kissed them in the hallway, and said older colleague laughed it off as ‘just something that happens’, because they could see themselves doing the same. You’d scream abusive, you’d scream sexist, you’d scream monster if the genders were in one configuration but are somehow totally okay with it because the relationship in question happens to be girl-girl.
Seriously. What the fuck is up with this audience and cognitive dissonance. Ruth did something that would make her scum-of-the-earth to you if she was a man, but she’s not so she gets a free pass because….patriarchy, I guess? If everything that happened between Ruth and Billie happened, with Ruth as a man instead of a woman, you’d want him to be in jail right now, not just the psych ward, for being such an exploitative piece of shit.
trlkly
Yes, because everything is about how badly men are treated by society. You just magically know that we would treat a male version of Ruth differently.
It can’t be that she has a mental disorder, and we know it’s morally wrong to punish someone for one of those. It can’t be that the actual comic flat out said she might not be fired–that it depended on her treatment.
We have to balance what’s right for her with what’s right for everyone else. Yes, keeping an abusive RA would be bad–which is why it’s up in the air. She may come back with the ability to handle things. She may not.
Trying to turn this into another male persecution fantasy does you no favors. Many of us (including me–see my avatar) are men, and we know we are not being persecuted.
And attacking all of us is not a good way to join our little community, or make us think you have any purpose but to hate on people you don’t like.
And, since your comment may wind up deleted for being a jerk:
[This reply is to a comment calling us hypocrites for saying that Ruth may still remain RA, saying that, if she was a man, we’d want her dead.]
Rawr.
How did you take his comment as an attack?
I don’t even think it’s a “WHY DO MEN NOT GET TO DO THIS?!” comment like you’re implying.
I thought he was just expressing a “Really…? REALLY?!” level of disbelief at the lack of reaction to that plot point.
He missed a couple of key points, namely that Billie isn’t really being sexually assaulted by someone who physically outclasses her (sorry ladies, average guy is stronger than average woman), nor is Ruth ACTUALLY assaulting her.
She kissed her, and when Billie resisted, Ruth immediately backs off.
It’s a heated moment, and something happened in it, but when it was clear the other party wasn’t into it, that was it. Shut down.
So yeah, that’s why no-one’s really up in arms, like he expected, and frankly, I doubt anyone would be for a guy in the same situation as Ruth.
As for Daisy laughing at it, Daisy asks Billie what exactly happened, and then when shown, Daisy is immediately into it.
Her “laughing it off” is because she’s furiously embarrassed that she basically responded as if Billie were actually trying to make a move on her.
Random832
I don’t think it’s fair to say “male persecution fantasy” when they haven’t said there’s anything wrong with what they believe would happen to a male Ruth.
Random832
Huh. My phone capitalized my email address without me noticing(scrolling issues) and it changed my gravatar.
Unusually Angry Hippie
Thanks, because I would be right with the crowd on that. People in positions of power should suspend their libido’s in favor of doing their jobs, irregardless of gender or psychological state, something Ruth failed miserably at. She should have admitted that due to her issues, she was incapable of being Billies R.A, and resigned before making any attempt to persue the relationship.
Instead, we’ve got this. It’s not that I don’t like Ruth, I do, I think she’s one of the most human characters in the comic, and being diagnosed with bipolar disorder myself, I feel for her psychological situation and am glad she’s finally getting help. But I also know that because of my issues, I shouldn’t be put into a position of authority, because my behavior is unreliable and erratic depending on my mental state, and she shouldn’t be held to any lower standard that that.
Having empathy for her and calling her out on having done things that are wrong are not mutually exclusive. I’d see her getting her job as R.A. back as quite the miscarriage of justice. Heck, just the fact that she started a fight with and laid hands on one of the students on the first day of the semester should have made it pointedly clear she was not cut out for a leadership position, which requires one be diplomatic. At the time, I let it slide as just being Willis’ penchant for the dramatic, but with everything that happened since it speaks to some much bigger problems about being in a position of authority.
Coru
Use of irregardless negates your entire argument. <- Grammar police.
Actually I generally agree with you. I don't particularly like Ruth in the first place (more a fan of the Walkyverse counterpart) and she has used her position in horrible fashion to abuse (both verbally and physically) the students she is supposed to be helping.
She absolutely does not deserve to get her job back.
kagato23
It’s not “Morally wrong” to fire somebody with a metal disorder if the byproduct of that mental disorder makes them unable to do their job. Ruth is unfit for her position by dint of her actions, not her diagnosis. “But she has a mental disorder” doesn’t cut it, especially when your job is human services.
mendel
Are you saying that Willis can evoke empathy for a woman but not for a man? Because that’s what this is about, empathy, not politics. You stand by people who have done bad things, not because you defend what they have done, but because they are good people in bad situations and who knows what you would have done if you were in their shoes, which you’re not. None of us is perfect, and none of us is having empathy denied because of it.
carms
In here with standard point about societal context. When a man does the sexual harassment shitty thing, it’s not just his shitty thing, it’s invoking a whole social ill. when a woman does a shitty sexual harassment thing, it’s just her.
(There are gender-reversed examples of this representative phenomenon, eg when a woman is bad at driving she represents womankind, when a man parks shittily it reflects only on him0
Lamia
I disagree with the original commenter but I feel that to say “when a woman sexually harasses someone it’s just her” is a part of the problem. As the OP said we SHOULD be treating sexual harassment, in the real world, the same way REGARDLESS of gender or sex. It might be “societal context” but that’s a PROBLEM.
Lyingcat
Im much too lazy to go back and find it but I would be very very surprised if the comments for those original strips weren’t full of people expressing shock and condemnation for Ruth’s actions. I didn’t comment myself (first ever comment here) by I remember being absolutely disgusted by Daisy’s reaction.
And, yes, the fact that she did that from a position of power probably means she shouldn’t have a position of power again. No gendered element to it whatsoever. However, within the context of the comic, only Billie and Daisy know about that incident. Daisy is fairly unlikely to say anything now because of how terrible the fact that she dismissed it initially makes her look and Billie isn’t going to do anything that might get Ruth fired. As far as Ruth’s bosses know (and correct me if I’m wrong here) Ruth’s major transgression, other than having a mental breakdown, was a consensual and mutual relationship with someone from her floor. There are plenty of reasons why that’s inappropriate but not necessarily an auto firing offense.
As for why we, as readers, might want her to keep her job even though we know she wasn’t good at it, well, others have said, empathy. A lot of us like Ruth, some of us see aspects of ourselves in her. Some of us like her relationship with Billie (destructive as it might be). Some of us may just be suckers for a bespectacled redhead with a penchant for violent outbursts. And if we want to get into gender doubled standards, how much of fiction is male protagonists who should absolutely be fired for gross misconduct due to violence, aggression and occasional sexual harassment and who somehow keep both their jobs and the audience’s sympathy?
thejeff
Ignoring that Ruth has taken and continues to take a lot of crap for that among the commentariat. Justifiably.
She didn’t get fired for it because no one in authority knew about it. And Daisy, who could have reported it, screwed up because of her own issues. Which is a pretty likely result, though usually for different reasons, of reporting any kind of sexual harassment.
We’ve pretty much moved past it because Billie has, though worries about the abusive relationship keep coming up. Not so much at the moment because Ruth’s in the hospital, but there’s still a strong keep these two apart and kick Ruth out of the RA job sentiment around here. That incident is one that comes up again and again.
Splork
And this is why students should have access to affordable education. She shouldn’t need to remain in a job she can’t actually do in order to be at school.
BBCC
Her alternative is to try student loans which will either crush her finances or involve help from her grandfather, an abusive asshole it would be a bad to stick her in further dependence on again.
In addition to all those buzz words, Roz would probably be FAR more effective at making the space trans-safe.
And she’d have a lot of fun doing so.
I’m kinda imagining Dorothy go the “let’s get a mediator in here” or “calmly explain things to Mary in a reasonable and rational manner until she understands” routes.
…. just to be clear, Roz would be fired for whatever she did to Mary. But she’d also get a certificate of appreciation from 90% of the wing.
MatthewTheLucky
Yes, but let’s not forget that Roz is incredibly irresponsible.
MatthewTheLucky
Stopping Mary is the only thing she’d be good at.
Reltzik
Maybe one or two other things, but yeah, Dorothy would be better at 90% of the job.
Lailah
I generally don’t use the word ‘irresponsible’ for people who volunteer for grunt volunteer work, especially not without evidence they’re blowing off their other obligations. Am I forgetting the latter?
Well, Dorothy is a cisgender, heterosexual, white moderate with political aspirations she’s effectively useless as an advocate for any marginalized group so long as she prioritizes maintaining a squeaky clean record of not rocking the boat.
Lamia
She has however (correct me if I’m wrong) shown herself to be an ally who I can genuinely see being an ACTIVE ally, much like Joyce. She’s seen people she knows go through struggles for being LGBTQA and I think Dorothy has the sense to know her privilege and the empathy to know they need a voice in the dorm.
thejeff
Well yeah, but do we have any reason to think she’d prioritize a “maintaining a squeaky clean record of not rocking the boat”?
As far as Carla & Mary go all she’d have to do is follow school policy.
In Ruth’s place, back when Mary actually attacked Carla, I doubt Dorothy would have gone for a mediator or explaining to Mary, she would have followed the rules and reported Mary to the proper authorities – probably Chloe. Mary wouldn’t have had any blackmail material.
Now whether those authorities would have handled the situation well, I don’t know, but I can’t really see Dorothy doing anything else.
She’s also already cause a scandal for the school. If she’s talking about herself, that application would get denied so hard it should retroactively change this strip.
Seriously. Roz takes civil disobedience way too far, and plays with the idea of a moral stance more than she actually adopts one.
This is the same girl who threw the party Joyce was attacked at, and despite there being a CROWD of people who saw and heard what happened, didn’t seem to know about the assault.
The same girl who published nude images of Joe without his actual consent.
The same girl who tried to exploit her teacher’s romantic feelings for her own political gain.
Roz didn’t do any of those things.
– she attended the party. (The guy who threw it drove Joyce and pals home and swore he’d call the cops if he saw Ryan again.)
– when she gathered that something major may have happened at said party, she gave Joyce a resource (card to the mental health center) even though they aren’t friends.
– Joe happily consented to being filmed and shared.
– Roz hoped that her sister would listen to Leslie and her teacher gets a girlfriend she likes, and saw it as a win/win to play wingman.
Reltzik
Also, Leslie KNEW that’s what Roz was doing, 100%, and went along with it. And it wasn’t for her own political gain, but rather in hopes of reforming her sister for the betterment of all, including her sister.
Mav
Yes. Roz can definitely be a jerk, but she got permission for all of these things and attending the party where someone got assaulted doesn’t necessarily mean that anyone besides the victim/victim’s friends will report it or even know – other people are responsible for their own actions, too.
Tilty
Really? Permission? Because Joe seemed rather surprised to learn that the tape he thought would stay between them was instead splattered all over the internet.
caesaria82
No he didn’t. He knew the video was going to be posted on the internet.
BBCC
You need to reread that storyline again, because Dorothy asks him if Roz asked to put it online and he said ‘Heck yeah, when you meet a chick who wants to frigging make a sex tape, you totally jump that no matter what’. “No matter what” being in reference to it going online.
Tilty
As I stated below, there are degrees of exposure. Joe did NOT know Roz was the sister of a congresswoman. Joe did NOT know that the tape would go viral because of this relation. Joe did NOT know that it would be released to a major publication. Joe did NOT know it was a deliberate attempt to gain some exposure in the name of sexual empowerment.
He did NOT have all of the information, and battling semantics of ‘She told him THIIIIIS much’ doesn’t change the fact that she withheld information and exploited him for her own personal gain.
Shame on you.
BBCC
No, she didn’t tell him that, as far as we know. That is not what you were arguing. You were arguing that she didn’t tell Joe it would be published period. That is not what happened. Don’t backpedal on that.
Also, the only place we know she released it was online. No major publications we know of.
Shame on you for thinking I’m so stupid I can’t remember two seconds to see what you were arguing five seconds ago.
Adam Black
If Joe had more information he would have tweeted the website himself
Reltzik
Yeah, Joe was super-cool with the publicity.
Also, does Joe really have a RIGHT to know that Roz is celebrity-adjacent? Right to find out that she’s of legal age before doing anything with her, yes, right to know he’s being recorded, yes, right to know and consent to it going on the internet, yes.
But is she morally required to say, “hey, stop, I have to tell you first who my sister is”. I mean I can see an argument for that, but isn’t Robin’s party and politics ALREADY invading enough bedrooms as is?
Lailah
If you know the media are swarming the celebrity right now, which Roz does? Yes. that *SPECIFIC* thing, int hat *SPECIFIC* context, is abso-fucking-lutely, a thing Joe has a right to know. There’s a reasonable expectation of negative fallout for him.
There /wasn’t/, and except when Danny gave him a scare after the fact, he wasn’t even really worried about it. But because there’s a real cost to him, or at least, good odds of it, he gets to know that.
Lailah
…I’m now, after rereading it, questioning that assertion. I mean, he’s a dude. Well, I’m provisionally going to assume there’s real odds of it.
thejeff
Lailah: “media are swarming the celebrity right now”?
She’s a congresswoman. She’s running for reelection, like she does every two years. Like all 400 odd Representatives do. Beyond that was there any reason to think the media were paying attention to her?
Lailah
Nope. So you know, when election season isn’t a thing, it doesn’t matter so much for Joe’s purposes.
caesaria82
Thank you for these receipts. Roz can go about things in a loud, unsubtle way sometimes, but the things that people in the comments often accuse her of are mostly not things she has actually done.
Tilty
Firstly – Okay, she attended the party. The strip was old and I was mistaken – HOWEVER
– She only gave Joyce the card after it was made clear that something had occurred. Something which she only made worse with insensitive comments concerning a disturbance that she didn’t bother to learn about.
-Joe did *NOT* consent to the film being shared. He knew it had been filmed, but was not informed that it would be made public. He was completely in the dark of how it would be used. He later, after the fact, agreed to forgive her and move on, but that does not make her actions appropriate.
– Leslie is the VICTIM. Roz knew that she had feelings for her sister, knew her sister’s stances on homosexuality, and strung her teacher along in a half-baked plan to gay the bigotry out of Robin.
BBCC
– …Well yeah, it’d be weird to just hand Joyce the card before she knew anything happened. At best it’d go like this – “Hey, random girl from my gender studies class, here’s a number for a rape crisis hotline!” “Um….okay? Thanks?” As far as she was told, it ended because of a fight – that sounds plausible enough for a college party, so she had no reason to question it until she saw Joyce and Dorothy get upset.
– Bullshit. Dorothy asked him ‘did she tell you she was going to post it online’ and Joe said yes.
– Leslie knew what the plan was. She’s the one who EXPLAINED the plan to Dorothy. Leslie also knew Robin’s stances on homosexuality, as she made perfectly clear in this discussion. It blew up in her face, but Leslie walked in with eyes open.
Tilty
– The problem isn’t when she presented the card. The problem was she mocked the “drama” without bothering to learn what had happened or who was involved. There were DOZENS of people who saw the exchange, and if she CARED about the people she ASKED to attend, she would have BOTHERED to learn more about what happened.
– Some of the details of that exact plotline are a bit fuzzy (It was YEARS ago), but there is absolutely no denying that Joe was not given the full story.
Roz intended for the tape to be leaked to the press, knowing that it would go viral (Since she was the sister of a congresswoman who stands for “family values”). She knew, with no degree of doubt, that THOUSANDS of people would see the video. That both she and her partner would be thrust into the public eye…
Which Joe was COMPLETELY unaware of. When he saw the article, he didn’t even know that Roz was a public figure. He most likely thought the tape would have a small following, he would remain anonymous, and just have an ego-trip at the few people who viewed it.
Roz gave him NO warning or context behind her plan.
– Leslie’s feelings were exploited by Roz. She knew the “plan,” but Roz was the orchestrator who put Leslie in a highly compromised position which could have BLOWN UP IN HER FACE.
BBCC
– She complained for two seconds about the party ending. And again, Roz had no way of knowing they were involved in the circumstances surrounding the party ending, which makes sense because SHE WAS TOLD IT ENDED BECAUSE OF A FIGHT. She has no reason to assume Joyce and Dorothy were involved in said ‘fight’ considering neither of them are the type to throw down.
– Yes, Roz did not give Joe the full story. That is NOT what you were arguing before. You were saying Roz did not ask permission to put it up online at all, when that is incorrect. THAT is what I objected to. Saying she didn’t give him the full story? Yeah. That IS true and it is more than fair to dislike her for that. You don’t need to pretend she didn’t ask things she did ask.
Although, again, you’re saying she leaked it to the press, which we have no reason to believe she did. All we know is she posted it online. The press ended up covering it, yes, but we were never told she leaked it anywhere but online.
– Leslie is the one who knowingly, willingly, 100% agreed to the plan. Had she said ‘No, Roz, don’t try to hook me up with your sister’, you’d be right. Had Roz randomly dropped Robin on her, you would be right. Roz came up to her and basically said ‘Hey, you like my sister, I want my sister to have an adult who disagrees with her bigotry to talk to, can I hook you up?’ And Leslie said yes. If that’s ‘exploitation’ then you have a low standard for it.
All of this. Roz irks me to no end some times, but blaming what happened to Joyce on her, even indirectly like this (and yes, that’s basically what you’re doing, Tilty) is completely ridiculous.
Liliet
Actually, I agree that since Roz invited Dorothy and Joyce, she should have at least checked on them. There’s a reason Joyce ended up one-on-one with Ryan, and while Dorothy was majorly disoriented herself, Roz kind of should have paid some attention to ‘new freshmen who had never been to a party before’. IMHO. PARTICULARLY when she heard there was a fight.
370 thoughts on “Long shot”
Ana Chronistic
“What, YOU could do a better job?”
“Yup! It’s in the Sitcom Rules of Engagement”
“This isn’t a sitcom!!”
“Yeah, okay, it’s more of a dramedy”
Aeron
It’s more of a Dumbing. A Dumbedy.
Van Jealous
Roz just pressed the secret switch that turns on Dorothy into…..Puppy Dorothy!
Yet_One_More_Idiot
Nah, it’s the switch that toggles Dorothy between ambitious President-to-be, and total goofball who is inexplicably but adorably head over heels for Walky. 🙂
a snow ʍousɐ
I think that second one is Puppy Dorothy.
Roborat
I thought that required an action figure to be bounced off her head?
Shade
“Probs not. But the challenge is accepted.”
DarkoNeko
“What if I told you they may not fire Ruth, making your point moot”
Unusually Angry Hippie
Ruth deserves to get fired. No matter how many demons in her closet, no matter how much WE, as outside observers, may like her, Ruth was a horrible RA. She physically assaulted and later sexually abused a student on her floor on…..a hunch. That’s what it was.
If a guy fought with a girl all the time, and then pinned her against the wall and kissed her forcefully on the assumption that she was straight and down for it, he’d be getting fucking CRUCIFIED in the comments section. But it’s a chick who has a suspicion that another girl might be bi and down for it, and turned out to be right so she gets a pass….somehow.
Weather or not she and Billie ended up together is irrelevant, that was inappropriate behavior that should have gotten her fired a long time ago. Daisy failed at ‘being an adult’ by acting like it was no big thing and laughing it off. Let’s separate gender from the equation for a second, an imagine that an 18-year-old student comes up to a trusted older colleague and tells them that their R.A. physically assaulted and then kissed them in the hallway, and said older colleague laughed it off as ‘just something that happens’, because they could see themselves doing the same. You’d scream abusive, you’d scream sexist, you’d scream monster if the genders were in one configuration but are somehow totally okay with it because the relationship in question happens to be girl-girl.
Seriously. What the fuck is up with this audience and cognitive dissonance. Ruth did something that would make her scum-of-the-earth to you if she was a man, but she’s not so she gets a free pass because….patriarchy, I guess? If everything that happened between Ruth and Billie happened, with Ruth as a man instead of a woman, you’d want him to be in jail right now, not just the psych ward, for being such an exploitative piece of shit.
trlkly
Yes, because everything is about how badly men are treated by society. You just magically know that we would treat a male version of Ruth differently.
It can’t be that she has a mental disorder, and we know it’s morally wrong to punish someone for one of those. It can’t be that the actual comic flat out said she might not be fired–that it depended on her treatment.
We have to balance what’s right for her with what’s right for everyone else. Yes, keeping an abusive RA would be bad–which is why it’s up in the air. She may come back with the ability to handle things. She may not.
Trying to turn this into another male persecution fantasy does you no favors. Many of us (including me–see my avatar) are men, and we know we are not being persecuted.
And attacking all of us is not a good way to join our little community, or make us think you have any purpose but to hate on people you don’t like.
And, since your comment may wind up deleted for being a jerk:
[This reply is to a comment calling us hypocrites for saying that Ruth may still remain RA, saying that, if she was a man, we’d want her dead.]
Rawr.
How did you take his comment as an attack?
I don’t even think it’s a “WHY DO MEN NOT GET TO DO THIS?!” comment like you’re implying.
I thought he was just expressing a “Really…? REALLY?!” level of disbelief at the lack of reaction to that plot point.
He missed a couple of key points, namely that Billie isn’t really being sexually assaulted by someone who physically outclasses her (sorry ladies, average guy is stronger than average woman), nor is Ruth ACTUALLY assaulting her.
She kissed her, and when Billie resisted, Ruth immediately backs off.
It’s a heated moment, and something happened in it, but when it was clear the other party wasn’t into it, that was it. Shut down.
So yeah, that’s why no-one’s really up in arms, like he expected, and frankly, I doubt anyone would be for a guy in the same situation as Ruth.
As for Daisy laughing at it, Daisy asks Billie what exactly happened, and then when shown, Daisy is immediately into it.
Her “laughing it off” is because she’s furiously embarrassed that she basically responded as if Billie were actually trying to make a move on her.
Random832
I don’t think it’s fair to say “male persecution fantasy” when they haven’t said there’s anything wrong with what they believe would happen to a male Ruth.
Random832
Huh. My phone capitalized my email address without me noticing(scrolling issues) and it changed my gravatar.
Unusually Angry Hippie
Thanks, because I would be right with the crowd on that. People in positions of power should suspend their libido’s in favor of doing their jobs, irregardless of gender or psychological state, something Ruth failed miserably at. She should have admitted that due to her issues, she was incapable of being Billies R.A, and resigned before making any attempt to persue the relationship.
Instead, we’ve got this. It’s not that I don’t like Ruth, I do, I think she’s one of the most human characters in the comic, and being diagnosed with bipolar disorder myself, I feel for her psychological situation and am glad she’s finally getting help. But I also know that because of my issues, I shouldn’t be put into a position of authority, because my behavior is unreliable and erratic depending on my mental state, and she shouldn’t be held to any lower standard that that.
Having empathy for her and calling her out on having done things that are wrong are not mutually exclusive. I’d see her getting her job as R.A. back as quite the miscarriage of justice. Heck, just the fact that she started a fight with and laid hands on one of the students on the first day of the semester should have made it pointedly clear she was not cut out for a leadership position, which requires one be diplomatic. At the time, I let it slide as just being Willis’ penchant for the dramatic, but with everything that happened since it speaks to some much bigger problems about being in a position of authority.
Coru
Use of irregardless negates your entire argument. <- Grammar police.
Actually I generally agree with you. I don't particularly like Ruth in the first place (more a fan of the Walkyverse counterpart) and she has used her position in horrible fashion to abuse (both verbally and physically) the students she is supposed to be helping.
She absolutely does not deserve to get her job back.
kagato23
It’s not “Morally wrong” to fire somebody with a metal disorder if the byproduct of that mental disorder makes them unable to do their job. Ruth is unfit for her position by dint of her actions, not her diagnosis. “But she has a mental disorder” doesn’t cut it, especially when your job is human services.
mendel
Are you saying that Willis can evoke empathy for a woman but not for a man? Because that’s what this is about, empathy, not politics. You stand by people who have done bad things, not because you defend what they have done, but because they are good people in bad situations and who knows what you would have done if you were in their shoes, which you’re not. None of us is perfect, and none of us is having empathy denied because of it.
carms
In here with standard point about societal context. When a man does the sexual harassment shitty thing, it’s not just his shitty thing, it’s invoking a whole social ill. when a woman does a shitty sexual harassment thing, it’s just her.
(There are gender-reversed examples of this representative phenomenon, eg when a woman is bad at driving she represents womankind, when a man parks shittily it reflects only on him0
Lamia
I disagree with the original commenter but I feel that to say “when a woman sexually harasses someone it’s just her” is a part of the problem. As the OP said we SHOULD be treating sexual harassment, in the real world, the same way REGARDLESS of gender or sex. It might be “societal context” but that’s a PROBLEM.
Lyingcat
Im much too lazy to go back and find it but I would be very very surprised if the comments for those original strips weren’t full of people expressing shock and condemnation for Ruth’s actions. I didn’t comment myself (first ever comment here) by I remember being absolutely disgusted by Daisy’s reaction.
And, yes, the fact that she did that from a position of power probably means she shouldn’t have a position of power again. No gendered element to it whatsoever. However, within the context of the comic, only Billie and Daisy know about that incident. Daisy is fairly unlikely to say anything now because of how terrible the fact that she dismissed it initially makes her look and Billie isn’t going to do anything that might get Ruth fired. As far as Ruth’s bosses know (and correct me if I’m wrong here) Ruth’s major transgression, other than having a mental breakdown, was a consensual and mutual relationship with someone from her floor. There are plenty of reasons why that’s inappropriate but not necessarily an auto firing offense.
As for why we, as readers, might want her to keep her job even though we know she wasn’t good at it, well, others have said, empathy. A lot of us like Ruth, some of us see aspects of ourselves in her. Some of us like her relationship with Billie (destructive as it might be). Some of us may just be suckers for a bespectacled redhead with a penchant for violent outbursts. And if we want to get into gender doubled standards, how much of fiction is male protagonists who should absolutely be fired for gross misconduct due to violence, aggression and occasional sexual harassment and who somehow keep both their jobs and the audience’s sympathy?
thejeff
Ignoring that Ruth has taken and continues to take a lot of crap for that among the commentariat. Justifiably.
She didn’t get fired for it because no one in authority knew about it. And Daisy, who could have reported it, screwed up because of her own issues. Which is a pretty likely result, though usually for different reasons, of reporting any kind of sexual harassment.
We’ve pretty much moved past it because Billie has, though worries about the abusive relationship keep coming up. Not so much at the moment because Ruth’s in the hospital, but there’s still a strong keep these two apart and kick Ruth out of the RA job sentiment around here. That incident is one that comes up again and again.
Splork
And this is why students should have access to affordable education. She shouldn’t need to remain in a job she can’t actually do in order to be at school.
BBCC
Her alternative is to try student loans which will either crush her finances or involve help from her grandfather, an abusive asshole it would be a bad to stick her in further dependence on again.
AnvilPro
Sarah is probably taking a class on hissing
Doctor_Who
She’s going into Law, right? Probably studying Parseltongue, most lawyers have some snake ancestry.
MatsuoTanuki
Gahahahahhaaaahahahaaaaaa!
Zach
You mean Civil Serpents.
Don’t sound ignorant.
They could sue.
Plasma Mongoose
+1 FOR PUN.
DarkoNeko
With tiny bowties an’ all !
legobil
Hisssssssss-sue.
NF
My favorite thing about this strip is the mental image of Sarah literally hissing at a surprised Dorothy.
Deanatay
AYKM? Dina has a masterclass in ‘how to express your feelings through dinosaur noises’, and she and Sarah have been hanging out a lot, recently…
Mr. Mendo
I gotta go with Roz on this one. She’s got moxie! ^_^
Michael Steamweed
New RA says: free condoms for everyone every night! Safety is paramount!
AnvilPro
I thought she was talking about Agatha
Doctor_Who
Moxie, spunk, vim, the ol’ razzmatazz, and other things my grandparents probably used to say!
Mr. Mendo
By jingo! 😉
Reltzik
In addition to all those buzz words, Roz would probably be FAR more effective at making the space trans-safe.
And she’d have a lot of fun doing so.
I’m kinda imagining Dorothy go the “let’s get a mediator in here” or “calmly explain things to Mary in a reasonable and rational manner until she understands” routes.
Reltzik
…. just to be clear, Roz would be fired for whatever she did to Mary. But she’d also get a certificate of appreciation from 90% of the wing.
MatthewTheLucky
Yes, but let’s not forget that Roz is incredibly irresponsible.
MatthewTheLucky
Stopping Mary is the only thing she’d be good at.
Reltzik
Maybe one or two other things, but yeah, Dorothy would be better at 90% of the job.
Lailah
I generally don’t use the word ‘irresponsible’ for people who volunteer for grunt volunteer work, especially not without evidence they’re blowing off their other obligations. Am I forgetting the latter?
Emily
Well, Dorothy is a cisgender, heterosexual, white moderate with political aspirations she’s effectively useless as an advocate for any marginalized group so long as she prioritizes maintaining a squeaky clean record of not rocking the boat.
Lamia
She has however (correct me if I’m wrong) shown herself to be an ally who I can genuinely see being an ACTIVE ally, much like Joyce. She’s seen people she knows go through struggles for being LGBTQA and I think Dorothy has the sense to know her privilege and the empathy to know they need a voice in the dorm.
thejeff
Well yeah, but do we have any reason to think she’d prioritize a “maintaining a squeaky clean record of not rocking the boat”?
As far as Carla & Mary go all she’d have to do is follow school policy.
thejeff
In Ruth’s place, back when Mary actually attacked Carla, I doubt Dorothy would have gone for a mediator or explaining to Mary, she would have followed the rules and reported Mary to the proper authorities – probably Chloe. Mary wouldn’t have had any blackmail material.
Now whether those authorities would have handled the situation well, I don’t know, but I can’t really see Dorothy doing anything else.
Joe
She’s also already cause a scandal for the school. If she’s talking about herself, that application would get denied so hard it should retroactively change this strip.
Sporky
If Roz is really implying it’s her, she’s somehow even more self-absorbed than I thought.
Tilty
Seriously. Roz takes civil disobedience way too far, and plays with the idea of a moral stance more than she actually adopts one.
This is the same girl who threw the party Joyce was attacked at, and despite there being a CROWD of people who saw and heard what happened, didn’t seem to know about the assault.
The same girl who published nude images of Joe without his actual consent.
The same girl who tried to exploit her teacher’s romantic feelings for her own political gain.
She is NOT fit to be an RA.
Durandal_1707
And thus, since this is ‘Murica, she will get the job over the woman who is qualified up the wazoo.
LionHeart
Game show buzzer noise!
SUGauthor
I hate everything.
spriteless
You know, I am now thinking, those sisters have more in common than I realized at first.
Leorale
Roz didn’t do any of those things.
– she attended the party. (The guy who threw it drove Joyce and pals home and swore he’d call the cops if he saw Ryan again.)
– when she gathered that something major may have happened at said party, she gave Joyce a resource (card to the mental health center) even though they aren’t friends.
– Joe happily consented to being filmed and shared.
– Roz hoped that her sister would listen to Leslie and her teacher gets a girlfriend she likes, and saw it as a win/win to play wingman.
Reltzik
Also, Leslie KNEW that’s what Roz was doing, 100%, and went along with it. And it wasn’t for her own political gain, but rather in hopes of reforming her sister for the betterment of all, including her sister.
Mav
Yes. Roz can definitely be a jerk, but she got permission for all of these things and attending the party where someone got assaulted doesn’t necessarily mean that anyone besides the victim/victim’s friends will report it or even know – other people are responsible for their own actions, too.
Tilty
Really? Permission? Because Joe seemed rather surprised to learn that the tape he thought would stay between them was instead splattered all over the internet.
caesaria82
No he didn’t. He knew the video was going to be posted on the internet.
BBCC
You need to reread that storyline again, because Dorothy asks him if Roz asked to put it online and he said ‘Heck yeah, when you meet a chick who wants to frigging make a sex tape, you totally jump that no matter what’. “No matter what” being in reference to it going online.
Tilty
As I stated below, there are degrees of exposure. Joe did NOT know Roz was the sister of a congresswoman. Joe did NOT know that the tape would go viral because of this relation. Joe did NOT know that it would be released to a major publication. Joe did NOT know it was a deliberate attempt to gain some exposure in the name of sexual empowerment.
He did NOT have all of the information, and battling semantics of ‘She told him THIIIIIS much’ doesn’t change the fact that she withheld information and exploited him for her own personal gain.
Shame on you.
BBCC
No, she didn’t tell him that, as far as we know. That is not what you were arguing. You were arguing that she didn’t tell Joe it would be published period. That is not what happened. Don’t backpedal on that.
Also, the only place we know she released it was online. No major publications we know of.
Shame on you for thinking I’m so stupid I can’t remember two seconds to see what you were arguing five seconds ago.
Adam Black
If Joe had more information he would have tweeted the website himself
Reltzik
Yeah, Joe was super-cool with the publicity.
Also, does Joe really have a RIGHT to know that Roz is celebrity-adjacent? Right to find out that she’s of legal age before doing anything with her, yes, right to know he’s being recorded, yes, right to know and consent to it going on the internet, yes.
But is she morally required to say, “hey, stop, I have to tell you first who my sister is”. I mean I can see an argument for that, but isn’t Robin’s party and politics ALREADY invading enough bedrooms as is?
Lailah
If you know the media are swarming the celebrity right now, which Roz does? Yes. that *SPECIFIC* thing, int hat *SPECIFIC* context, is abso-fucking-lutely, a thing Joe has a right to know. There’s a reasonable expectation of negative fallout for him.
There /wasn’t/, and except when Danny gave him a scare after the fact, he wasn’t even really worried about it. But because there’s a real cost to him, or at least, good odds of it, he gets to know that.
Lailah
…I’m now, after rereading it, questioning that assertion. I mean, he’s a dude. Well, I’m provisionally going to assume there’s real odds of it.
thejeff
Lailah: “media are swarming the celebrity right now”?
She’s a congresswoman. She’s running for reelection, like she does every two years. Like all 400 odd Representatives do. Beyond that was there any reason to think the media were paying attention to her?
Lailah
Nope. So you know, when election season isn’t a thing, it doesn’t matter so much for Joe’s purposes.
caesaria82
Thank you for these receipts. Roz can go about things in a loud, unsubtle way sometimes, but the things that people in the comments often accuse her of are mostly not things she has actually done.
Tilty
Firstly – Okay, she attended the party. The strip was old and I was mistaken – HOWEVER
– She only gave Joyce the card after it was made clear that something had occurred. Something which she only made worse with insensitive comments concerning a disturbance that she didn’t bother to learn about.
-Joe did *NOT* consent to the film being shared. He knew it had been filmed, but was not informed that it would be made public. He was completely in the dark of how it would be used. He later, after the fact, agreed to forgive her and move on, but that does not make her actions appropriate.
– Leslie is the VICTIM. Roz knew that she had feelings for her sister, knew her sister’s stances on homosexuality, and strung her teacher along in a half-baked plan to gay the bigotry out of Robin.
BBCC
– …Well yeah, it’d be weird to just hand Joyce the card before she knew anything happened. At best it’d go like this – “Hey, random girl from my gender studies class, here’s a number for a rape crisis hotline!” “Um….okay? Thanks?” As far as she was told, it ended because of a fight – that sounds plausible enough for a college party, so she had no reason to question it until she saw Joyce and Dorothy get upset.
– Bullshit. Dorothy asked him ‘did she tell you she was going to post it online’ and Joe said yes.
– Leslie knew what the plan was. She’s the one who EXPLAINED the plan to Dorothy. Leslie also knew Robin’s stances on homosexuality, as she made perfectly clear in this discussion. It blew up in her face, but Leslie walked in with eyes open.
Tilty
– The problem isn’t when she presented the card. The problem was she mocked the “drama” without bothering to learn what had happened or who was involved. There were DOZENS of people who saw the exchange, and if she CARED about the people she ASKED to attend, she would have BOTHERED to learn more about what happened.
– Some of the details of that exact plotline are a bit fuzzy (It was YEARS ago), but there is absolutely no denying that Joe was not given the full story.
Roz intended for the tape to be leaked to the press, knowing that it would go viral (Since she was the sister of a congresswoman who stands for “family values”). She knew, with no degree of doubt, that THOUSANDS of people would see the video. That both she and her partner would be thrust into the public eye…
Which Joe was COMPLETELY unaware of. When he saw the article, he didn’t even know that Roz was a public figure. He most likely thought the tape would have a small following, he would remain anonymous, and just have an ego-trip at the few people who viewed it.
Roz gave him NO warning or context behind her plan.
– Leslie’s feelings were exploited by Roz. She knew the “plan,” but Roz was the orchestrator who put Leslie in a highly compromised position which could have BLOWN UP IN HER FACE.
BBCC
– She complained for two seconds about the party ending. And again, Roz had no way of knowing they were involved in the circumstances surrounding the party ending, which makes sense because SHE WAS TOLD IT ENDED BECAUSE OF A FIGHT. She has no reason to assume Joyce and Dorothy were involved in said ‘fight’ considering neither of them are the type to throw down.
– Yes, Roz did not give Joe the full story. That is NOT what you were arguing before. You were saying Roz did not ask permission to put it up online at all, when that is incorrect. THAT is what I objected to. Saying she didn’t give him the full story? Yeah. That IS true and it is more than fair to dislike her for that. You don’t need to pretend she didn’t ask things she did ask.
Although, again, you’re saying she leaked it to the press, which we have no reason to believe she did. All we know is she posted it online. The press ended up covering it, yes, but we were never told she leaked it anywhere but online.
– Leslie is the one who knowingly, willingly, 100% agreed to the plan. Had she said ‘No, Roz, don’t try to hook me up with your sister’, you’d be right. Had Roz randomly dropped Robin on her, you would be right. Roz came up to her and basically said ‘Hey, you like my sister, I want my sister to have an adult who disagrees with her bigotry to talk to, can I hook you up?’ And Leslie said yes. If that’s ‘exploitation’ then you have a low standard for it.
Fart Captor
All of this. Roz irks me to no end some times, but blaming what happened to Joyce on her, even indirectly like this (and yes, that’s basically what you’re doing, Tilty) is completely ridiculous.
Liliet
Actually, I agree that since Roz invited Dorothy and Joyce, she should have at least checked on them. There’s a reason Joyce ended up one-on-one with Ryan, and while Dorothy was majorly disoriented herself, Roz kind of should have paid some attention to ‘new freshmen who had never been to a party before’. IMHO. PARTICULARLY when she heard there was a fight.