Next weekend I'm gonna be in Seattle, Washington, for Emerald City Comicon! You can find me in the usual spot, which is labeled booth 112 this year. I'm in the directory, but coupled with "Cyanide & Happiness" so you'll find me under the Cs and not the Ds. See y'all there! I'll have all four books, a new print and poster, and a handful of character magnets. Prevented
Next weekend I'm gonna be in Seattle, Washington, for Emerald City Comicon! You can find me in the usual spot, which is labeled booth 112 this year. I'm in the directory, but coupled with "Cyanide & Happiness" so you'll find me under the Cs and not the Ds. See y'all there! I'll have all four books, a new print and poster, and a handful of character magnets.
974 thoughts on “Prevented”
Ana Chronistic
“YOU SHOULD’VE THOUGHT ABOUT BEING A WOMAN BEFORE GOING AND BEING A VICTIM, ALSO ABOUT BEING ANGRY AND SHATTERING THE ILLUSION OF THE INFALLIBLE PATRIARCHY”
“hey that E.coli sounds awfully good about now”
(psst John your privilege is showing)
Wheelpath
Could you elaborate? John’s definitely playing victim and showing privilege, but what does any of this have to do with the patriarchy?
Shiro
Patriarchy says women aren’t supposed to be angry, that’s exceedingly inconvenient for the people they’re angry at and women are supposed to be good and giving and accommodating and never trouble the people (read: men, because like hell women are people) around them.
Wheelpath
Huh, okay, thanks for clarifying.
Damn, I guess Carol hasn’t been angry, just a mean lady who deserves eternal darnation.
LeslieBean4Shizzle
It is worth pointing two additional things out.
1) Patriarchy also dictates how MEN are supposed to behave. The idea that those born physically male are supposed to behave a certain way can be just as problematic.
2) The concept of patriarchy is sometimes (mistakenly) assumed to be composed of a cabal of menfolk. It isn’t. Patriarchy only means society’s overall expectations. Both men and women enforce the patriarchy by peer pressuring individuals who don’t conform to “normal” definitions of male and female to do so.
I bring this up because poor Jocelyne is an example of why this is an issue. The patriarchy says that physically male individuals must be men. However, that doesn’t mean that Jocelyne can turn to her female relatives and expect acceptance – her mother, for example, embraces the patriarchy just as much (possibly even more) than her male family members.
LeslieBean4Shizzle
Yikes! That took a stupidly long time to write!
^^;; Guess I got carried away. Ahem. Anyway, I only went into that because I was so happy to see such a good explanation about what “patriarchy” means in context. Too often people talking about the patriarchy like it’s a conspiracy between powerful men. It isn’t – it’s a societal trend built on thousands of years of human culture.
Janine
Hmm, so if Patriarchy and Feminism aren’t supposed to be gender exclusive phenomenon, why are they gendered by name?
Lyssie
Because patriarchy overwhelmingly benefits (cis) men over women. A man who goes to a job interview doesn’t have to worry that his interviewer might be subconsciously discounting his qualifications just because he’s male – in fact, he’s more likely to get the job than an identically-qualified woman of the same race. At work, his ideas are more likely to be listened to – even if a woman said them first. If he behaves badly, but his misbehavior is in line with assumptions of how a man “should” act, he will have little fear of reprisal and may even be praised. (See also: a woman who sleeps with more than one man, or enjoys sex, or declines to sleep with a certain man, is called a “slut”, while a man who cheats on his girlfriend with multiple other women is a “player”.) And men almost never have to feel unsafe walking home alone at night. Patriarchy isn’t purposely put in place by men, but men are overwhelmingly privileged by it. Thus, it receives a gendered name to describe what it does.
Feminism, conversely, is a reaction to patriarchy. There are as many forms that reaction takes as there are people who identify as feminist, but the core idea of feminism is that patriarchy is Not Cool and seeks to create a better, freer, more humane society by bringing those most disadvantaged by patriarchy – women – up to the same level of respect, social status, safety, etc. as those who are most advantaged. It is a targeted response aimed at helping women, thus it also receives a gendered name to describe what it does.
This comment space cannot hope to contain all the subtleties of feminist philosoph(ies) or provide a thorough grounding in the subject, but them’s the bare bones as I understand them.
Victor Riley
Because it’s about focusing on a particular issue. Patriarchy focuses on men, socially. Feminism focuses more on women, socially. Men who realize that women get a bad rap under Patriarchal ideas can absolutely support the idea of giving them equality, and hence… be Feminists. Women can be raised to believe that the old-fashioned ways are the only good ways, and hence… not be feminists, because they support the old Partriarchal ways.
A vast simplification, I know… and my apologies. Modern feminism, especially, is more about equality across the board, for all genders and types. The fact that it’s a “gendered” word does not, and should not, mean it is meant to exclude any gender, be it male, female, intersex, etc.
But it may just contribute to the fact that many men *do* feel excluded by it, because of the gendered nature of the word. Living so long in the Patriarchy, the opposite-sounding word can feel like a bit of an attack.
But we’ll get over it. Many individuals have, and we just need the rest of the mass population to realize that it’s not about us, and that’s okay.
Reltzik
I’d say it’s an artifice of history. The early fights of feminism were largely waged to secure rights for women — notably things like the right to vote, own property, divorce a spouse, and so on. Here the proponents of the movement were feminists in a very definite sense of campaign for women as a group, and the opponents WERE largely for men being specially-privileged.
Names often attach early and linger after they stop being entirely accurate. Witness, for one example, the “windmills” — wind mills — that generate electricity or pump water rather than milling grain. These are, of course, not mills at all. However, they take their name from wind-powered mills that were the earliest use of the design, and the name stuck around long after it became inaccurate.
Similarly, while the definitions of feminism and patriarchy have evolved into something a lot closer to the nature of the ills and solutions in play, the early and settled conflicts (most of which are no longer in dispute) still define how they are named.
Dandi_Andi
They are gendered in their name because cis men have gotten the best of a situation that is bad for everyone. While patriarchy robs us all of a certain measure of agency, it has pushed men into asserting political and economic power and pushed women away from it. Men are generally expected to put their careers ahead of their families and women to sacrifice their careers for their families. Those expectations aren’t good for any of us, but it definitely gives men the advantage.
I try to avoid using terms like patriarchy, feminism, and privilege when discussing these issues with people who are not already on board with the idea, though. It’s not that I don’t understand the ideas they are meant to convey or why we use the terms, it’s that they bring certain cultural and linguistic baggage that often needs to be deconstructed (as LeslieBean4Shizzle did so magnificently above).
When trying to explain that rigid gender norms pressure people of either gender into behaviors that may not be right for them and trans and non-binary people into roles that are definitely not right for them and punishes anyone who chooses to place their own autonomy above cultural expectations, people tend to get hung up on the language. My hope is to sidestep their assumption that that feminism is a “men v. women” movement and that patriarchy is something evil men impose on helpless women and, if I am lucky, avoid the “not all men” argument.
Jack Stamper
As far as I know, patriarchy at the very core just means a society ruled by a male fatherfigure (as opposed to a matriarchy). But since an overabundance of patriarchies in the world causes these problems, the term got a broader use to describe the tendency in a larger society to view the patriarchy as the only viable form in all smaller societies within it. The patriarchy is always supposed to be in effect, no matter what group of people you form, the male(s) are supposed to call the shots, and no jumping between the male/female border, that’s cheating. In other words: It developped from a description to a rule.
As for Feminism, this is a movement specifically tailored to empower women. That’s why it has a female-coded name, even though obviously male and female people can follow it.
New Kid
The big difference between the original and modern feminism, as i see it, is the focus on suffrage – the movement specifically focused on womens right; equal pay and job opportunities, the right to vote and (though to my knowledge in less extend in the early suffragette movements in the UK, france and the US) control over their own own bodies regarding pregnancy, abortion, rape and prevention like the use of condoms and such. Not that the latter few werent important topics of the day, it just that its, ridicolously enough, still debated today. Those topics are the focus of the modern feminism movement today, as is things such as LGBQT issues, the inclusion and acceptance of men into into feminist movements, and a break from traditional gender roles, e.g. women cant be tough and men cant be sensitive and much more. That is to say, that is the focus in the western world. There is still a need for suffrage in other places. I heard in passing that such movements are starting in Saudi Arabia, but dont quote me on that. Theres a lot more detail to it all, as it is a massive topic, but if anyone want to know more, id say Emma Watson’s feminist speech is a good place to start. I havent read extensively on the topic myself, so i cant really point to any litterature, but i did find it, how to say this, helpfull? Reassuring? Comforting at the very least, to get this some of this information from such a fixture from my childhood(she played Hermiony Granger in the Harry Potter movies for those confused).
LeslieBean4Shizzle
**BEAMS**
I accidentally started a thoughtful intellectual discussion! Yay!
I’m used to accidentally starting shitstorms, so this is a very pleasant surprise. **HUGS EVERYONE**
fogel
I think you did a great write up of two hugely important points. (But I’m not one to judge? Other day i wrote to tell some journos on a podcast that they had missed half the story because they were talking about Trump’s mysogeny as if it was only a concern/issue for women.)
Cerberus
Yup, hell, Jocelyne runs into this problem in a big way because A) she isn’t a guy, but also B) she’s expected to be as toxically masculine as John. And John can’t back down to Joyce without being regarded as “gay” by society. And has been trained that way his whole life. And it’s also why Jocelyne runs real risks with her displays of compassion and why she’s got a rough road if she wants to speak up for her sister. Because that could lead to her being teased for being a “girl” and being “gay” in addition to potentially leading her to snap and say “something she can’t ever take back”.
Shiro
Yup, I was thinking about that as I was going to bed last night…that’s probably why Jocelyne is reacting like this, a lifetime of peacemaking instead of saying what she actually thinks.
Deanatay
Which she learned from… her dad.
Dragon_Nataku
*sigh* When Joyce called him “the good one” (or maybe I’m hallucinating this) and he showed up with Jocelyn I just assumed that when their parents thought John came out the best it really meant he was the best at placating them without actually outright disagreeing with them on anything. I was hoping he would actually be “the good one” and that his initial reaction was due to him being in India this whole time and only hearing about the Becky situation second-hand from his mum, who probably wouldn’t mention Toedad chasing women down in public on a college campus with a gun.
But with every word he says, this is looking less and less likely and it makes me sad, not because I want to just assume all people are good or whatever but cause I was hoping by being “the good one” this would be a safe environment for Jocelyn to be able to be her real self. Sadface.
SonicBlueRanger
Well if he was genuinely the “Good One” there’d be no drama or conflict. Not a very good Narrative if you ask me.
Clif
My advice is to wait for it. We haven’t met his marriage partner yet. John could have lots of interesting secrets.
Jack
Is there a way to upvote the thing LeslieBean4Shizzle said? Because I would like to.
I love this whole thread.
El Chupacabre
Yeah, DandiAndi made my day with
“When trying to explain that rigid gender norms pressure people of either gender into behaviors that may not be right for them and trans and non-binary people into roles that are definitely not right for them and punishes anyone who chooses to place their own autonomy above cultural expectations, people tend to get hung up on the language.”So true, so well put.
Adam Black
YES, all of this.
Geat answer.
Its worth pointing out that patriarchy isnt “all men against women”
Men cant unmake Patriarchy without women’s help and assistance.
In an fundie environment like this Patriarchy is more overt. In a modern secular culture its not a conspiracy of men-against-women, its far more insidious.
Its a System of Privileges and Punishments for BOTH genders which ultimately work to the benefit of a few elite men to detriment of most men and most women.
Its my opinion, ( and its just my opinion from my personal life experiences ) that in modern secular cultures ( NOT Joyces family per se or the fundie culture ) women are the police agents of Patriarchy. the middle-managers.
( Although in story you see this with Mrs Brown and Mary.)
And they first must transmit these values early on to their sons . Patriarchy works through carrots and sticks. It sets up an insidious social and economic value system in which classic Feminine-troped or types behaviors , and skillsets are economically and socially devalued than ones Male-typed.
This has been demonstrated with multiple studies both economic and social. When enough women enter a field the prestige drops and so does the pay. Computer Programming was largely seen as a female secretarial skill, when Men entered in greater numbers the pay rose. The pay for General Practitioners has fallen , as more women enter the field. Its really fucked up!
So even equal pay for equal work, doesnt necessarily guarantee fairness or equality. The Gendering-itself of skillsets and environments plays a role.
Because Patriarchy is also a Hierarchical system that benefits the few at the expense of the many, it also objectifies men and treats them as only valuable as their utility. Men are taught early on that their worth is as a mean-to-an-end, their utility, and outside that , they are disposable. The more unequal a society is the more everyone scrambles for their little piece of privilege.
People see whos above them on the totem pole, and see how profoundly unfair privileges not aimed to them are on their level, but are Blind to everyone below them.
( Anyone who doesnt think women also enforce and fight for Patriarchy, google Phyllis Schlafy and how she killed the ERA. )
Feminine Privilege is also real. The system cant work without carrots. Because Male Privilege is also hierarchical it can hurt women as a class overall, even if its to the detriment of the majority of individual men. Even in the most progressive cities in America, you do not want to be :
(1)Homeless (2) physically sick / disabled and (3) Male. Healthy women get housed and helped , way ahead of sick men. And its much more a male problem.
( You dont have to believe me, call your State statistics, find out the numbers of homeless men versus women. Then find out how many empty or open slots their are for women-only. ( Cis-women only ? )
Then find out how long a wait-list it is for men. Then look for exceptions , for men with a severe acute or chronic illness. )
Steampunkette
John stated she should grab her own number. Joyce contradicted him. Which busts the Infallible Patriarchy of man knowing the truth and woman accepts it.
Wheelpath
Also helpful, thanks
Cerberus
Yup. He’s bristling because he’s wrong and out of place, but he’s been raised his whole life in the idea that he’s right because he’s the oldest and he’s a boy and he’s the adult while the rest of them were children.
His pride can’t accept that someone as lowly as his little sister throughly debunked his half-thought out crap, so he lashes back at her with some emotional shit and then blames her for being emotional because he runs out of legs to stand on.
TheGrammarLegionary
You really are amazing at analyzing these comics. Your presence in these threads is truly a benefit to those of us who read them, and I thank you for it.
achallenger
the dina avaratar makes your thanks so much more in universe to me themammarylegionary, so thanks for that
also ‘runs out of legs to stand on’ sounds like a visual gag from thnat old betleguese cartoon
Gryph
The patriarchy is ALSO the reason Becky is in this situation in the first place. Her dad’s need to maintain his role as head of the family and force Becky into traditional gender roles is a huge part of it. Additionally, the idea that Becky never needed to know her SSN is probably part of that. He took care of everything so she never needed to know it, and her not knowing it allowed himt o maintain control.
Kiapdx
Yeeep. John’s stance of “well you should have taken care of the minutiae BEFORE your father came after you with a gun” is so fucking toxic and victim blaming and just… ugh. If Toe-dad were a good parent who enabled Becky to be self-sufficient, this wouldn’t be a problem. But it is.
Shiro
This is what I meant to say, but like, more coherent. A+
Cerberus
Seriously!
It’s some standard bog sexist shit mixed into the lovely stew of casual homophobia.
Uniqueantique
Actually he has a point. She has to get her own SSN, naturally.
Becky is angry because he is acting like it’s no biggie. Actually it isn’t.
This argument is ridiculous on all sides.
Becky has several options:
Write to her states Dept. of Statistics and get a stamped copy of her birth certificate. About $12 and 2 to 3 weeks to get it.
Take the certificate to the SS Office and get a copy of her SS card. I think it cost me $6 but can’t remember.
Or she could contact the old college and request transcripts of her records, which very likely have her ssn included.
She is in her rights to do all of this without parential consent.
All of this info. is on the internet also, with clear instructions. And most colleges have student ID no’s, allowing access to their student information.
I just did the bc and ss card myself.
fogel
If her college is still using SSN for student ID numbers then they’re hugely irresponsible and way behind the curve. NO institution should use SSN as I general purpose ID, nor ask for it if there isn’t a valid, specific reason. And for what reason would it be needed on a grade transcrpt?
NotPiffany
I think most schools have stopped using SSN’s for student ID numbers, but most of them still ask for it as part of the application. Anderson, however, doesn’t require it to apply, probably because they cater to the sort of Christians who homeschool their kids to keep the government from “tainting” them.
Pat
I think it became illegal in 2005.
I say that because my SSN was my student ID number (and the preset password on my school-issued laptop) when I started college in 2004; it’s the reason I quickly had it memorized after barely being aware it existed (typing it into the computer several times a day helped!).
This was quite suddenly forbidden at the start of my sophomore year (well, not the password which I was now allowed to set as I liked) when we were all issued new IDs with new, unique numbers.
‘Course, that might have been new NJ law rather than federal.
Leila
It might have been NJ. At the community college in IL in 2006-2008, you had to type in your SSN to use the school computer lab and to access your pay account if you were a student employee.
Lyssie
Right, but the point is that Becky has zero knowledge of any of this, and not by her own fault. John’s not just acting like it’s no biggie, he is not sparing a thought for what Becky’s situation might be. The reason for Joyce’s anger isn’t “finding out your own SSN is THE HARDEST THING EVER”, it’s “if you are not going to help her with this thing she has had no reason to know or know how to get, then you need to stop talking instead of condemning her”.
Ntrovert60
Oh, come on. I really don’t think it is asking a lot to expect someoe to know their own SSN. I have known mine since I was 10, because i went digging and found it. No one told me where it was, I just started digging. I knew where my parents kept their important documents, whether it was in the house or in the safe deposit box. Maybe I was nosy, maybe intelectually curious.
Way too many people just glide along, expecting someone else to “take care it” for them. That is crap; part of growing up is accepting that people arent always going to do for you, you need to start getting your basic dossier in order. If you have regular parents, they will help you with this, if not, then start snooping.
(Sorry – not mad at you personally. Just heard that “how was I supposed to know?” riff a little too often.
etybolik
Because everyone’s situation is exactly the same and if it’s not, they’re just being lazy dicks amirite?
Cerberus
What? No. It’s totally not victim-blaming garbage to presume that everyone is the same and that those who don’t randomly suss out that it’s necessary at 10 are just being lazy and presuming life will take care of everything and to presume that someone who grew up in an ultra controlling abusive fundie environment is going to have the same freedoms, opportunity, and relationship with one’s parents as someone who grew up in a supportive modern family.
Regalli
Seriously my parents are fine and it STILL took me until well into college to have access to my own Social Security card because I didn’t need it or know I would.
Hell, I still don’t have it memorized now because half the time when it’s needed for forms my mom’s the one writing. (Dysgraphia, it is fun.)
Bruceski
I think I was 12 or so when my parents had me memorize mine. One thing I found helped was to make a tune out of it. It’s the same reason people can remember phone numbers from radio jingles 20 years ago.
Time Sage
If I didn’t need to memorize it for work once (We used the last 4 digits as a register code to sign on in addition to a password) I’d probably be in the same boat. I never fill out my own paperwork due to the same issue.
thejeff
You didn’t grow up with a Toedad. You didn’t grow up being groomed to be handed off to some father approved man to have babies for. You didn’t grow up being prepared to never have any responsibility for your own life.
Cerberus
This. Becky was literally banned from most of the skills most people need as an adult because she was deliberately being kept “pure” for her future husband.
Also, the sheer number of people pretending like most teenagers know their social security number by heart clearly haven’t met most teenagers. Even the kids I have from supportive backgrounds don’t have their SS card memorized because they haven’t yet had to do the rigmarole of adult tasks that require it and so it isn’t high on their radar yet.
thejeff
Hell, I’m old enough that I think I didn’t actually have a SSN until I was close to working age. Maybe when I first got a bank account. I think you didn’t need it to claim a dependent child back then.
Don’t think I went to much effort to memorize it until I started applying for jobs and had to write it down a lot.
This never caused me any problems because my parents aren’t abusive controlling assholes.
Cerberus
Yup. It’s just a thing you don’t think about much (which doesn’t preclude learning early, but rather just means there’s little pressure to learn it early because the point of it all isn’t as apparent yet) until you get your first application blitz and realize it’s a crucial part of adulting. I think I knew about its existence in high school and referenced it for apps, but didn’t get to work memorizing it until college.
Pat
How many 10-year-olds have eve heard of social security numbers? And none of them have the ability to get into safety deposit boxes, you’re just lying there.
Soramke
I didn’t have my SSN memorized until I was applying for colleges, because I had to put it on so many applications. Someone else posted here that Anderson doesn’t require SSN on their application, and it’s not hugely likely that Becky would have used it too often before then. I’d like to think I’m a reasonably “intellectually curious” person from a supportive family, but most people don’t go around memorizing numbers they’ve never needed to use, and Becky has likely almost never needed her SSN for anything. Maybe you’re just *that* special. Was she just supposed to predict that her dad would get sent to jail for chasing after her with a gun and get this stuff in order beforehand?
TachyonCode
Heck, I did memorize my SSN six years after graduating from high school, when I applied for my first few jobs and registered for community college and financial aid. Then I promptly forgot about it after never needing to use it after that, until the point in time I did again: when I had to apply for work over ten years later.
And I’m probably going to forget it in short order again, because I just don’t need to know it off the top of my head in order to do most of my adulting.
Lyssie
I didn’t know my SSN until college. The issue just didn’t come up, and while I was a curious kid, that wasn’t one of the things I was curious about. And I was not raised in a controlling fundamentalist authoritarian household. Becky was. If Ross wouldn’t let Becky have a cell phone or watch Seinfeld, why in the blue blazing heck would he let her know her Social Security number?
SmilingNid
The other ting to remember is that John is probably still a little miffed about Becky starting the conversation by insulting him, which only juveniles some one who he proably still thinks of as a child there was I believe 20 years between John and Joyce. Not to mention none of Becky’s input into the conversation has really shown that he shouldn’t think of her as a child. He is still probably in the wrong when he finishes that sentence but no one is as he sees it helping him understand.
Norah
Even if he does think Becky’s a child, that doesn’t excuse his comments toward her. Yes, maybe she is childish in some ways–after all, she is only 18 and away from home for the first time after leading an extremely sheltered existence. Why doesn’t he try to help her by giving her a few suggestions as to how she could get her SSN?
SmilingNid
The fact that she insulted him is the best defense I can come up with really shows just how far in the wrong he is.
Liliet
That wasn’t even an insult, just a bad taste joke. To get offended by it in the way of ‘hOW DARE YOU COMPARE ME TO’ (as opposed to ‘this is disrespectful to so many people in so many ways even if im not one of those still ew’) is just… not even kindergarten level shit, I’m pretty sure I had a better sense of humor in kindergarten, and I’m autistic.
winter
Yeah, although your average bank or university will know your SSN, they usually won’t share that info with you. More likely, they’ll ask /you/ for your SSN when you call in, to confirm that it matches their records, so they can proceed with business. And they may print the last four digits on your forms, but rarely the entire number.
I don’t mean they’re aren’t exceptions, but that’s certainly how it’s been on all my transcripts and bank statements. And for good reason – they’re trying to prevent your identity from being stolen.
Norah
Yes, and John should be giving Becky some of these suggestions instead of making snide comments to her. Joyce is angry because John chooses to criticize instead of help.
Norah
Uniqueantique, we’d all be thinking John was awesome if he’d said “Hey Becky, finding out your SSN isn’t really so hard. Here’s what you can do”, and then giving her the suggestions you just made.
Lurlock
I had to replace my SS card several years ago. They did it for free. I just had to go to their office for it. Now not having a legal address might hamper that somewhat, but as long as you have someone willing to let you use their address to receive mail, you’re good.
(Okay, thinking about it, I still had other valid ID on me – drivers license, birth certificate. Might be a bit harder if you’ve got nothing to use as identification, but isn’t that what Child Protective Services are for?)
Lin
She’s 18. CPS won’t do shit for her.
Needfuldoer
Anderson* would still have her information (including SSN) on file, and with her old student ID she shouldn’t have trouble getting copies of her own record. Enrolling was probably the most recent time she was definitively identified. With her SSN, she should be able to get a certified copy of her birth certificate.
Or maybe they can request access to her father’s house from the state police. After all it’s still her legal residence.
There are options they can follow, but that doesn’t excuse John’s talking down to them for not knowing about them.
*Remember, neither Becky nor Kaitlin were expelled. Ross pulled Becky on his own volition.
trlkly
The reason Joyce is mad is because John is being an asshole to Becky. He is not showing even the slightest bit of emotional awareness. He is belittling her difficulties. And now he’s trying to attack Joyce for getting angry at him for doing so.
I’m just gonna flat out ask: are you on the autism spectrum, Uniqueantique? Because the way you read social situations is so completely off. You read everything Carla said as being literal. And now you don’t understand what John is actually saying.
How easy it is to get the SSN has no relevance when he’s belittling her as he is right now. And he thinks he can tell Joyce that she’s wrong for defending her friend.
Even if it turns out to be some weird misunderstanding, John is being an actual asshole here. This is what it means to be an asshole.
trlkly
And that’s not an attack. I’m trying to understand how you can be so completely off in all these evaluations. If you are on the autism spectrum, then I understand and sympathize.
Pecker Holder
So simple reasoning/common sense is autism now?
Kiapdx
Becky has no way of supporting herself in those weeks of waiting. Every day where she can’t finish her applications – for jobs, for school, for loans – is another day where she risks being found out and getting herself and Joyce kicked out of the dorm.
You can say John has some amount of the right of it all you want, but he’s being intensely insensitive to the plight of a girl who he’s known for YEARS. He’s showing he doesn’t care about Becky’s well-being (as his youngest sister so fervently does), but also that he wants her to feel ashamed of all these little things that were never her fault instead of doing anything constructive.
Janine
My money’s on his next words being “Running away from home”.
Reltzik
Nonono, he’s realized he’s in the hole and will double-down on turning it around on Joyce and criticizing her for being angry. Good-ole subject changing.
Neeks
I once had an 18yo coworker tell me that women choose to be born into this world, and to this day I have no words to describe exactly how much bullshit is packed into that statement.
This was after I complained about the wolf whistles some of our other male coworkers chose to broadcast over our department’s walkytalkies. And I mean, yes I chose the job and yes I chose to advance within my department because I was good at my job and they knew and respected that, but that doesn’t mean I had to choose to put up with that kind of nonsense.
(My attempts to get management to put a stop to it fell flat because of bro culture and our boss not wanting to do anything to damage his image as the cool boss, but. Anyway.
No you little twerp I did not “choose” to be born into any of this hot mess, and if choice was a factor I would sure as shit have lobbied for a less disastrous body chemistry.)
AGV
Wuuuuuuut? That’s redonkeylus, I would have laughed
I mean, it’s like saying that you choosed the questions put in your exam
Reltzik
Could this have been a religious doctrine? Sounds almost like one of the more fringe Christian sects — I want to say Mormons but it might be the Witnesses — who believe that pre-baby souls get to choose which parents they’ll be born to.
anonymsly
That’s Mormons IIRC, sounds like their ‘pre-birth’ stuff, where you choose your parents and future spouse and blahblah.
Jeudi Violist
Well…sure. There’s some Mormons who believe that and tell other people that, but it’s not doctrine or taught by the church. Although, if we’re allowing a larger group of people to connote a smaller subset of people, then we could say that it’s everybody that believes this.
What I want to know now is that if women can choose to be born, why does this coworker think men can’t choose? This means women have superior mental abilities, right? So after a couple of generations, women should gain psychic superpowers (the evolution is accelerated by the ability to choose to be born, which then leads to the ability to choose which DNA to have, which leads to selecting certain traits. How can we communicate to this general ethereal consciousness of “woman” that gets to choose to be born, made up of all past and future women? Do we pray to it? Wait, does this mean that this “womanhood” consciousness is actually God? This coworker thinks that woman is god? Plz help. I want to understand.)
Nageya
That’s not Mormons, Mormons have ‘chose to be born and get a physical body’ but choseing where to whom and who you’ll marry in the future is not a Mormon thing. I want to say that sounds like something from anti-Mormon literature but people can have weird personal beliefs that don’t reflect the religion as a whole and converts tend to bring in other groups weird ideas like young earth crap so I couldn’t say no Mormons believe that but it’s not a Mormon thing.
thejeff
I’ve seen similar things in some variations of Hindu and Buddhist philosophy – where you (your real aware between lives self) chooses the situation for your next life based on what struggles and trials will help you grow closer to enlightenment.