284

Puberty
Posted on October 19, 2018 by David M Willis

284 thoughts on “Puberty”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    “or ah could, like, use yer ACTSHUL name?”

    “huh, what’s that?”

  2. butts

    Good old Ethan

    HAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHHA ONLY GOOD TIMES HERE

  3. lilyliv

    Okay, Ethan’s facial expressions are adorable here. Also… going better than expected so far. (I don’t trust it. Where’s the catch?)

    1. Phil

      Ethan realizes he’s not gay and starts dating sal, therefore perpetuating the mess of unhealthy relationships that is this webcomic.

      1. Doctor_Who

        That might be the thing that would finally drive Amber completely insane.

        So I place the odds of it happening at 50/50.

      2. Homer Sexual

        My thoughts exactly :/

    2. Mada

      “The catch” is about five feet tall, has unresolved anger issues, and isn’t in any mood to talk things out with Sal.

      1. Aeron

        HiImEthanletsbefriendspleasedontstabme.

  4. Doctor_Who

    I don’t know if they ever actually met each other, but I guarantee that Drift would have pronounced Deathsaurus’ name as Deszaras.

    Real reason he left the Decepticons is Deathsaurus kept complaining to Megatron about it.

    1. Durandal_1707

      What the heck is a Deathsaurus? A book for looking up totally metal synonyms or something?

    2. The Other Mike

      Headcanon accepted.

    3. Schol-R-LEA;2

      At this point, someone such as Deadpool or the Imp would go out of their way to watch every relevant episode, then whenever Ethan was nearby talk about it loudly while deliberately calling Deathosaurus things like ‘Disastrous’, ‘Deathmetal’, ‘Emosaurus’, and ‘Cuddles’.

      1. Dave

        Mike will do so just as Ethan is about to climax next time they bang.

        1. Meagan

          The question is would that kill Ethan’s orgasm or make it twistedly intense.

  5. Kris

    It’s like a 1 to 9 ratio.

  6. Harvest Time

    Aw, Ethan. There’s something so kind about this comic, and I want to see these two interact more. Sal needs this so much, and Ethan’s gotten so much better at reaching out over the last while.

    1. Shiro

      They’re both being really good to each other here, I’m proud of them both

      1. butting

        Yup. In the midst of so much shit out there, it’s so damn good to see kindness being done like this. Thanks, Willis, it really is appreciated.

    2. Deanatay

      Yeah, it’s a sweet moment. It’ll last up until Ethan tells Sal about Amber.

  7. Kit M. Harding

    And since she’s Walky’s sister she knows at least vaguely what property he’s referencing here?

    1. Doctor_Who

      Cue long misunderstanding where they talk about robotic apes, and don’t realize they aren’t both referring to the same one.

    2. DailyBrad

      Maybe, I forget if Walky’s a transformers geek.

      1. Doctor_Who

        He’s with Amber now, he’d better become one.

        Dina: What’s your favorite dinosaur?

        Becky: You are!

        Amber: What’s your favorite dinosaur?

        Walky: Dinobot?

        Amber: You’re goddamn right it is.

  8. Tacos

    NARRATOR: He was already like this.

    1. thejeff

      Maybe. One of the early flashback scenes suggests he was partly turning to Transformers fandom to engage with Amber.

      1. Axel

        I think at the point he was bringing them to school, he was into them for himself, not Amber, and that was before the convenience store

  9. Shiro

    I googled “deszaras” to make sure I understood that punchline and it popped up an article for Deathsaurus, so I think Google has spoken

    1. Tacos

      Now Sal should start an argument on the correct spelling for Rartorata.

      1. Kamino Neko

        ‘Bob.’

      2. Shiro

        “Rartorata (ラートラータ Rātorāta, also spelled Rartorarta, Rartalarta, Roto-Rooter, Ratatouille, and Nancy)”

        I…huh. No weirder than Kharolynne, I guess

        1. Khyrin

          Where.
          THE FUDGE.
          did they get NANCY from that collection of phonemes?

        2. Deanatay

          Lemme explain by example:

          THE TICK: It’s your turn now, Thorace-bog.
          THRAKKORZOG: It’s Thrakkorzog. Thrakkorzog. With a K.
          THE TICK: We’re only serving humble pie, Whatchamazog.
          THRAKKORZOG: For the last time, it’s…
          THE TICK: Thorax-and-a-bog. Four-yacks-and-a-dog.
          THRAKKORZOG: No.
          THE TICK: Ah, laxative-log.
          THRAKKORZOG: No, no, no.
          THE TICK: Sapsucker-frog.
          THRAKKORZOG: Thrakkorzog.
          THE TICK: Susan?
          THRAKKORZOG: Now you’re doing it on purpose. How juvenile.

        3. thejeff

          “But everyone knew her as Nancy”

        4. elebenty

          If I could upvote your comment… I’d complain that I couldn’t upvote it twice.

        5. Mr. Random

          …. Ratatata?

      3. Lux

        I just got super confused for a bit because Latorartar (from Kamen Rider)’s spelling is nearly identical: ラトラーター (Ratorātā).

        1. pablo36

          Cause in Japanese phonetics, l=r and aa=ar, kinda like how in English phonetics we can’t tell the difference between all the Portuguese vowel variations.

        2. pablo360

          fuck I misspelled my username, dang iPad

      4. Rartorata

        Huh?

  10. Cholma

    …and to completely destroy Amber’s psyche, Sal & Ethan become a couple. (Is Lord Cheese Willis that evil?)

    1. Kris

      How would that even happen?

      1. jeffepp

        Manly enough for a gay,
        Made to lez out with a woman.

        No, really, it’s the Shipper’s Law: Everyone’s sexual preferences, in any given web comic, form into some degree of bi, therefore increasing the number of potential hookups exponentially.

    2. Reltzik

      No.

      It’s like Murphy’s law. He’s MORE evil than that, so he’s going to do something worse.

    3. Shiro

      No no, we already had the Ethan Learns It’s Okay To Be Gay arc

      …but imagine a poly Sal/Danny/Ethan metamour situation

      1. ShinyNeen

        … We can ship it?

    4. Nono

      Maybe not a couple… but maybe Sal crushes on Ethan who crushes on Danny who crushes on Amber who hatecrushes on Sal…

      1. Reltzik

        …. by proxy.

  11. Dark

    I would literally call it Deszaras just to piss him off because I am petty.

  12. DT

    I call him “Deathsanras”, so what does Ethan think of me?

    1. Kamino Neko

      That you’re the kind of trouble-maker that the ignore function was made for?

      1. Reltzik

        What is this “ignore” function you speak of? Is it in the uncharted, mysterious wastes that lay unexplored because no expedition has ever made it past the “post flames” button?

    2. Tacos

      He’d think you’ve seen the Omni dub.

      Spaceship Bruce, yo.

    3. JepMZ

      I’ve never even heard of it, assuming it is real

      1. DT

        It’s real. It’s from a cheaply made dub by Omni Productions that just had… really dumb names for characters in Headmasters, Masterforce and Victory.
        Fortress Maximus was Spaceship Bruce, Deathsaurus was Deathsanras, Blaster was Billy, Soundblaster was New Soundwave, Grand Galvatron was Unicron…….. it was a wild time.

  13. Bagge

    I don’t think there is a non-awkward way of saying sorry for something like that.

    But she made a good job of it.

    So proud of these two.

  14. Kyrik Michalowski

    Huh, this is going far better than I expected. Though I expect Ethan is partially making a joke to ease some of the tension here, it is still good to see them talking so easily. Granted he did just say he wanted to ease the tension so I suspect I am not far off. Either way, glad to see Ethan is willing to forgive and move on.

    Now the question is, is he going to bring up the “my best friend who stabbed you is sleeping with your twin brother” thing? Because that might bring the tension back.

    1. thejeff

      I hope not. It’s not really his to tell. He can talk to Amber about it and encourage her to talk to Sal, but he shouldn’t do more.

      1. Regalli

        Yeah, he does that and Sal DEFINITELY tries to start some kind of Talk About This with Amber, who is clearly not ready for it being sprung on her that way. (He should really encourage Amber to get ready and have a Talk About It, though, because this ground really can no longer hold and Sal might just put the last piece or two together now that she knows one of them is on campus and recognized her, which will not be a particularly good interaction setup for either of them. Control the setup, it’s the only way.)

        1. thejeff

          Yeah, not likely to hit her yet, but if she runs into Ethan and Amber together she might make the connection.
          So far, I don’t think she has any reason to link them.

        2. Regalli

          True. But she has plenty of reason to connect a dot with AG (‘I hear your voice in my nightmares’, same hair and skin color which she has seen in normal light at the rally,) and now that she’s starting to think of the robbery in the context of ‘people there are now my age and also at college, and one of them’s here’ it might be enough on its own. And that’s assuming she doesn’t ask if his friend is there – even if he doesn’t give a name, Sal knowing she’s on campus could prime her for recognition.

  15. Bagge

    Poor Ethan. This is exactly what he was afraid of. He just wanted to be that nerdy transformers guy, but once he came out his sexual orientation completely overshadowed… NOPE, TURNS OUT HE’S STILL THE SAME NERDY TRANSFORMERS GUY. He doesn’t even need a hat.

    1. Keulen

      Yeah, I don’t know why Ethan was so worried about everyone thinking of him as the gay guy. There are lots of gay guys at college, and probably not nearly as many nerdy Transformers guys.

      1. Bagge

        He might carry some… insecurities from his sometimes less than stellar-in-regards-to-being-supporting-’bout-the-gays family.

        1. Regalli

          Understatement. Also the entire summer it was apparently a running Thing In Their Town about Ethan Being A Gay Now and Amber trying to run education? Maybe it was mostly with their parents (seeing as they don’t have a wider friend group,) but it sounds like their area wasn’t supportive in general which never helps matters. (I still had so much angst coming out knowing my parents were completely supportive because my school at large was not particularly great and I’d absorbed so much shit by culture.)

          And probably that didn’t help Ethan a lot at the start of the comic, because I’m guessing that meant a large-scale outing he wasn’t ready for. Hell, he’s still not ready to have the kind of awkward conversation with his mom that will be inevitable (Though it’s admittedly super-hard, especially with a lot of social anxiety and an asshole relative – ‘You can either get over yourself or watch as I stop talking to you about it and leave if you cross that line. If I have children – and how I do so will be my business, Google it yourself because I won’t explain it for you – your access to said children will be dependent on you respecting me and my possible partner. I won’t invite you to a wedding unless you respect those same terms. I’m not changing, but this relationship is going to one way or another.’ Not a conversation that’s particularly easy for a college student in the first place unless circumstances have gone Becky-shaped already.)

  16. Stephen Bierce

    *”Apples, Peaches Pumpkin Pie” concludes* (I didn’t know that was the actual title of the song.)

    1. elebenty

      “Ready or Not, Here I Come” if you are thinking of Schoolhouse Rock.

      “I’ll count it again, but you better get hid, kid.”

      1. elebenty

        Misread your parenthetical comment, but at least I learned how that phrase got into the kid’s video.

        1. Stephen Bierce

          There are so many pop and R&B songs on that theme it’s ridiculous. Even RECENT ones.

  17. jeffepp

    Welp, she was gonna offer you sex in recompensation. That’s out no-ah, who am I fooling. She’s figgerin’ out how to climb the man mountain now. Better just tell her.

    1. pjeseb

      Every day I’m just survivin’
      Keep climbin’ the mountain.
      Even when I feel like dyin’
      Keep climbin’ the mountain.

  18. Josh Spicer

    Inappropriate timing for the question? Probably. But still a valid question.

  19. Foxhack

    I’m glad this went over well with both of them.

    Of course once Amber finds out, she’s going to go nuclear.

    1. Wright

      Sad, though, it’s completely misplaced. Absolutely everything that Amber was angry about was because of her father, not Sal. Even holding a knife to her best friend- Amber’s response only happened because of her intense feelings of worthlessness due to her father.

      Sal’s an aggressor, yeah, but she’s also a victim. Someone else who is working to put her more aggressive tendencies to better use. Just like Amazi-Girl.

  20. BBCC

    You all may have heard a faint, almost imperceptible squeeing sound yesterday from Canada’s direction. That was me, when this strip went live last night.

    I just cannot with how gracious and compassionate Ethan is here. He doesn’t even know why she did it, for all he knows she just wanted money for money’s sake. This is still how he feels about it. Just…goddamn if that’s not goals right there. I think I’ve been very obvious that I adore Sal and I do sympathize a lot, but I still don’t think I’d be nearly this understanding in Ethan’s situation (especially if I didn’t know why and thereby have that understanding).

    And Sal’s expressions are cute as fuck and I love her panel 5 face. She looks so relieved! <3

    1. Inahc

      it’s hard not saying anything about the next strip! … and now my brain has moved on to the *next* next strip, and thought up a joke I’ll probably have forgotten by the time it goes live.

      1. BBCC

        It gets easier as it goes on.

      2. ShinyNeen

        You can always write comments down in whatever format’s convenient and c+p them in when the strip goes up on the main site. I used to do that a lot, when I genuinely needed the 24 hr advance just to organize my thoughts enough not to sound like a complete idiot >.>.

        1. Inahc

          but… but that would make sense

    2. ShinyNeen

      He assumes the best of even the person who once held him at knife point and it’s insane that he could be so forgiving and empathetic. And, bonus points, he even went to talk to Sal almost immediately after he learned that she was that person, instead of avoiding the subject for whatever reasons.

      It’s to his benefit too, somewhat, but it’s still really impressive to see him reach out like this. And even cooler that it goes so well! So much for Ethan being bad at conversations!

      1. BBCC

        I know! Look how great they both are!

        I love everyone in this bar!

    3. Alanari

      Actually, this had some kind of legal afterplay. I’m expecting some deal, like “you don’t go to jail if you give us the names of the people who helped you in the first robbery”. That would explain why she got away without jail after threatening to kill someone. Child or not, death threats usually have more severe consequences.
      Ethan as one of the main victims somehow was involved in this. So there’s a pretty high possibility that he got at least some kind of background information about her.

      1. BBCC

        I find that unlikely. Sal’s vehement about not being a NARC. I suppose that could come from telling beforehand and there being a reprisal but we haven’t seen much hint at that.

        Sal was sent away for five years to a Catholic school that sounds like a reform school and we know she had a million (unhelpful) therapists. Both of those are common legal alternatives to jail (especially since Sal said it was either that or juvie).

        I know some speculated that the Walkertons and Siegals cut a deal so Amber wouldn’t get any charges at all for stabbing someone. I personally find it unlikely since that seems like something the police would charge with anyways, regardless of what the victim wanted (I dunno if its the same in the states, but in Canada, the police absolutely can do that if the crime’s dangerous). And Ethan did hear the name Walkerton but doesn’t seem to know much of anything about background, plus in your scenario, he probably wouldn’t have that info since he has nothing to do with the deal.

        1. Alanari

          But if there was a choice between juvie and boarding given by a judge, there was a court case. This would have meant that they all knew each others names and Amber would have known that sal has a record (because being sentenced to anything basically is the record). She didn’t know it though.
          That’s why I’m expecting a deal. Because it seems like there wasn’t a court case.

          Are we actually sure Amber didn’t get some kind of punishment? She’d probably have it easier because being in a lifethreatening situation usually means you are given some slack (and they both were kids, I mean, try taking someone hostage and not go to jail as an adult..). But perhaps there was some community service or something?

        2. BBCC

          Sal explicitly says she was given a choice between juvie and boarding school and that there didn’t end up being much difference.

          If there were any sort of penalty for Amber stabbing Sal, nobody’s ever mentioned or indicated such.

        3. Alanari

          Yes, she was given the choice. But it could have been “you can make a deal and avoid jail, in which you doubtlessly will end if this goes to court”.

          This has always surprised me, honestly. She disabled someone for life. And it wasn’t self defense. But maybe it just hadn’t come up so far.

        4. BBCC

          The choice was juvie, not jail. But again, narcing on Asher, as a deal, doesn’t really sound like Sal, unless there’s been a reprisal we’ve heard nothing about (not impossible). Also, not all victims testify. The police and/or storekeeper could have done so and given the same testimony without Ethan or Amber having to speak (although it’s possible Ethan did – he did say he knew Sal’s name but forgot it (although the fact he forgot it made me think he only heard it a few times).

          It’s possible, but thus far all we’ve heard is ‘everyone wanted Amber in therapy, but her dad said no and put her in self defence and then the divorce finalized’.

        5. Alanari

          Which is kind of a jail for juvenile criminals, isn’t it?

          People change over the years. Present sal says that but child sal, scared to death by what is happening, might have been different.

        6. thejeff

          It could even have been triggered by Sal being guilty over narcing on her “friends”.

        7. BBCC

          @ Alanari – Not really. They’re both forms of detention, but one is much less severe. There’s a difference between going to juvie and going to jail, both legally and socially.

          It’s possible Sal told about them, but I don’t think it went well if that’s the case so all that does is make me worried for Marcie.

          @ thejeff – I think that would imply more affection for Asher than she seems to actually feel.

        8. BigDogLittleCat

          Whether charges are pressed depends on the District Attorney. If by “court case” you mean a trial, I think we can safely assume Sal was never tried.

          Given Sal’s age and lack of a record and the standing of her family, they’re not going to do the strong arm “give up your pals or you’re going up the river.” For one thing, they don’t need to since they can ID them easily enough by checking Sal’s associates. Figure this young girl fell into a bad crowd, separate her from them and she’ll be fine, but get the hoodlums off the street.
          For all we know, it was Sal’s parents who offered her the “choice,” after finding out the lay of the land from the DA.

          As regarding charging Amber, only an ass would have tried to prosecute her. Given the circumstances, charging her would have been a waste of resources, since you’d never get a conviction.

        9. Foxhack

          … I suspect the criminal connections Amber’s father had may have also contributed to Amber not being charged.

        10. Foxhack

          (By that I mean him bribing someone.)

        11. Sarah Lea

          Here in California, at least, my experience has generally been that, unless a crime is of a minimum severity (attempted murder, etc.), the DA generally only moves forward with pressing charges if the victim (or victim’s parents, in the case of a minor) actually wants to go forward with pressing charges. I’d imagine otherwise, the prosecution could find themselves in a situation in which their key witnesses (the victim(s)) could need to be treated as hostile (since they didn’t want charges pressed in the first place).

          This often plays out in police reporting to domestic disturbance cases, in which police show up when called by neighbors who hear screaming, or even one of the spouses/partners harming the other. One or both partners can be arrested, the police can even witness some form of violence committed by one upon the other as they arrive…but generally if the “victim” spouse declines to press charges, it won’t go to court. Exceptions seem to generally be if the police were looking into one of the partners for something else (or suspect on-going, repeated abuse from multiple calls), and choose to use the domestic violence instance as a “crowbar” to pry open a case they otherwise want to investigate (i.e. they suspect the “attacking” partner is a dealer, trafficker, repeat abuser, etc.).

          In the Dumbing of Age situation such far (and I admit, I’m not a major archive-diver, nor criminal system expert), the following options seem available:

          Robberies: Owners of the convenience stores would make the decision whether or not to press charges against Sal (et al for first robbery). They’d almost certainly choose to do so, even if the clerk at the second convenience store seemed compassionate toward Sal. Store almost certainly has video surveillance, and clerk may have his/her job held over him/her if otherwise hesitant to testify, so this almost certainly went to (juvenile, since Sal was actually 13, not 17 like she claimed) court and instigated the choice between “juvie” (juvenile detention, literally jail/prison for juveniles) and reform/boarding school (a choice the judge likely provided to her parents to make on Sal’s behalf, although it’s possible – if seemingly unlikely – Sal had some agency in this choice).

          Taking Ethan hostage (i.e. assault [threat] [with a deadly weapon? I’m not sure whether a knife qualifies, but seems like it should]): ultimately up to Ethan(‘s parents, probably) whether to press charges on this. If they were told Sal was already serving time (reform or juvie) until an adult and additional charges were unlikely to actually change her sentence, they could potentially have chosen not to press charges, to spare Ethan the additional trauma of testifying as a minor in court. In which case they might have a decent idea of who Sal is, but may have shielded Ethan from too many additional details unless he specifically requested them. Alternatively, Sal’s sentence could have included these charges as well, again using the video surveillance to avoid putting Ethan through the court process.

          Amber’s battery on Sal (with deadly weapon? [again, not sure] but not “attempted murder”): Would probably be up to Sal(‘s parents) whether to press charges against Amber. This is the real biggie question, because there are obviously a lot of strong feelings amongst the commentators about Sal’s parents and on what motivations they base their decisions. I could personally see this going either way (with some potential – not claiming definite – motivations): Press charges against Amber so Sal’s not the only “wrong-doer” here; or not press charges against Amber to more quickly “sweep this embarrassing issue under the rug”/get it over with. Given the extenuating circumstances (Amber’s trauma due to Sal’s immediately preceding actions) and the lack (so far) of any evidence that Amber faced any kind of criminal proceedings, it appears that, regardless of the motivations, neither Sal’s parents, nor the DA on their own, chose to pursue charges against Amber.

          (Again, disclaimer: based on some of my personal and second-hand experiences, but not any kind of formal education/experience in criminal justice.)

        12. Sarah Lea

          (Side note; above comment was definitely supposed to reply elsewhere, to BBCC’s mention that in Canada for “dangerous crimes,” charges are generally brought regardless of whether the victims want to press them).

          As a tangential example, in one of my particular personal experiences, when I was 19 my car was totaled by parked in front of my house by a 17 year old who smashed into it with his own car while high on weed about 3 am. He then drove off (hit and run), probably realized he was liable to crash again in his condition, and parked the car a few blocks away around a corner and apparently took off on foot.

          A neighbor was woken by the sound and reported it to my father, and they searched together and found his car (with matching damage to mine), got the license plate, and reported it to the police. The police impounded the car, and did let us know that they’d apprehended him and would be prosecuting on our behalf – BUT: because he was a minor, they would not release his name to us. We could not be involved in the court case in any way. Basically they had plenty of physical evidence, and we’d hadn’t specifically witnessed him anyway, so I guess we weren’t needed for the case.

          We could report his car’s plate to our insurance company (which I think was able to track HIS insurance company by, as we did eventually get a payout for the car), but I’m not sure if they’d have even given us that, if we hadn’t found the plate number ourselves. We were unable to learn the outcome of the charges against him of hit and run (against my vehicle) and DUI, and were basically stonewalled by the police at every turn because he was a minor.

          Maybe it would’ve been different if I’d actually been in the car at the time it was hit (e.g. if I as a person was the “victim”, rather than just my car), but suffice it to say, in some jurisdictions at least, there are significant protections for minor offenders to protect their identity, even from those against whom they’ve offended.

        13. Sarah Lea

          (Only “significant” was supposed to be bold there)

        14. thejeff

          It’s also likely that whatever happened, none of it went to trial. It was all handled by plea bargaining. With both families trying to get the other to back off on their charges.

          I do find it hard to believe that if the cops had the slightest idea that she was involved with the other burglary, they wouldn’t apply whatever pressure they could to get evidence of the larger gang. Sal’s small fish. Even if the rest of the gang is still small time, they’re more worth busting than she is.

        15. UniqueSnowflake2

          It may be that the stabbing threw a monkey wrench into the prosecutions. It seems plausible to me that Sal’s lawyer could say to the prosecutor: “If you drop the charges, or at least make a plea deal so that Sal gets nothing worse than probation, then her parents will send her to a boarding school in another state until she’s 18. If not, then you can explain to a jury why a 13-year-old girl, who was under arrest and being held by a police officer, was stabbed with a knife that had also been held by a police officer.”. The prosecutor might figure that a guilty plea was the best he could be reasonably certain of.
          Then, Amber’s lawyer, probably one of Blaine’s associates, would say: “Drop the charges, or make a plea deal, or explain to a jury why a _white_ girl, who lost control after the stress of seeing her only friend taken hostage, is on trial after you let the _black_ girl, who actually committed a crime, go free.”. He’d definitely play the race card. The prosecutor, remembering that he is in southern Indiana, would probably give in.
          So nobody does any time.

        16. Regalli

          Distressingly plausible series of events with regards to the Blaine part. (I wish so hard a judge had been able to mandate counseling for Amber, or for her to at least have gotten some kind of evaluation. Poor kid needs so much therapy.)

    4. jeffepp

      You’re shipping them, aren’t you?

      Eh, we all are, at this moment.

      1. BBCC

        If by ship you mean ‘there is potential here and I wanna see it’ absolutely. If you mean romantically? Nah. Ethan’s gay. Otherwise, I need more of this potentially beautiful friendship.

        1. Reltzik

          Aside from three terrifying minutes, and attending the same school…. what common ground do these two have, exactly, that will form a basis for any conversation that is not about the robbery/hostage/etc thing?

          I mean, yes, they’re both handling this pretty awesome (though Sal MIGHT want to tone back the PTSD joke under the circumstances). But what else do they have?

        2. CJ

          That is already more than anyone going on a blind date or starting to talk with a stranger on a long train ride.
          Getting to know people is always about potential.

        3. thejeff

          Well, we know Sal “goes for tall”. Stated in context that applies attraction to Ethan.

          And what would you have said Danny and Sal had for common ground before they started bonding?

        4. BBCC

          Common ground helps but you don’t actually need it to bond with and really like someone.

      2. Foxhack

        If by that you mean friendship then yes.

    5. Regalli

      It’s so unbelievably gracious and that’s just what Sal has needed about this. No one in Sal’s family was on her side. Even Marcie was likely at least a little upset (safe to say the LAST thing she wanted was Sal going away for five-years-that-feel-like-forever and the stolen money plan was a terrible idea to start with,) which would have made things awkward in the immediate fallout. But the clerk and Ethan – her victims – are willing to forgive her and now that Sal’s out of that desperation she can take that out. It’s great.

      (Amber’s still gonna be a mess, but I think that one and each of them understanding why the other did it is ultimately going to help them. For instance, when Blaine returns to campus and tries to lord things over Amber again, Sal knowing would put Sal firmly on Team Fuck Blaine. I want Team Fuck Blaine as big as possible when the time comes. Amber doesn’t need to bring more guilt on herself if everyone ELSE closes ranks around her and destroys him nonviolently.)

    6. Bagge

      Panel 5 Sal is ADORABLE, a word I really didn’t expect to use about older-than-13-years-old-Sal. It seems like a huge weight lifted.

      1. BBCC

        Really? I use it regularly when she’s smiling because her smile is absolutely adorable.

  21. Victor Riley

    Ah… closure can be nice and civil.

  22. Kris

    Y’know Sal acts all too cool for nerds or whatever but I think that’s actually her type. She slept with Jason who dresses and talks like a nerd, she’s hanging out with Danny a long established nerd, and she’s shown attraction to Ethan who is also a nerd! She associates with the three nerdiest guys we’ve seen. You’re just a poser Sal! Malaya may actually be right about you as much as I hate to agree with Malaya on anything!

    1. BBCC

      She said she didn’t go for adorable, not necessarily nerds. 😛

      That said, she DOES go for tall. If nothing else, Jason has that going for them. And Ethan’s been established as both Tall and Hot.

      1. Kris

        See but she doesn’t go for Joe. In fact she seems to be indifferent to him despite him fitting her preferences and not being a “nerd”. Also haven’t seen her say anything about Jacob who’s got the same tools minus the misogynist issues. Actually have Jacob and Sal even shared the same strip yet? Although the truth is there just aren’t that many guys in this comic and the good ones are taken or gay.

        1. BBCC

          Sal hasn’t met Jacob yet and the only time we’ve seen her interact with Joe was after the list was leaked and she felt objectified by him. So, while she doesn’t seem to HATE him, I think it’s unlikely she’d go for him.

    2. Lux

      Join the club for agreeing with Malaya on things today. Wonder if there’s a connection between the AG avatar and agreeing with Malaya.

    3. Emily

      She didn’t sleep with Jason because she was interested in him, it was a transaction, hanging out with someone and being attracted to them are not the same thing, and have you SEEN Ethan?

      1. thejeff

        She was at least a little bit attracted. She’s not that gross.

    4. BigDogLittleCat

      She slept with Jason because he was available.
      I never got the feeling she was *attracted* to Danny. He has turned into a friend because he’s kind and gentle, which she responds to, and she feels she can trust him.
      Nor do I see attraction here, but if there were, Ethan’s tall and hot, so why not.

      She woudn’t go for Joe because he reeks of sexist arrogance.
      If she even knows who Jacob is, she probably thinks he’s too straight-laced for her.

  23. Also Becky

    I’ve been reading Sal’s accent so long I just can’t seem to hear her voice in the previous days’ strip other than with the accent

  24. Dean

    Ethan just wants to let the air out of this, just like Sal nearly let the air out of him that one time.

    1. Koms

      Or blood

  25. John

    It was a bonding experience! Or possibly rapid-onset Stockholm Syndrome.

    Thanks for not letting all the air out of Ethan, though, Sal.

  26. Black Bumblebee

    Silly Ethan… it’s Deathsanras, as the Omni Dub says :-p

  27. Wraithy2773

    Everyone give Ethan a big, big hug, he fucking deserves it for being able to do this O_O;.

  28. auroki

    Sal you should know with Walky as your brother, that nerddom is automatically installed in every guy before we even breathe

    1. 3oranges

      Maybe, but for some reason sports nerds and business nerds aren’t always recognized as such.

  29. Lux

    Well, it looks like no one’s commented on this yet: the fifth panel, specifically Sal’s line. Is it weird that I feel like her acknowledging that she doesn’t deserve forgiveness is a really good redemption of her character? I mean, I don’t dislike Sal for the most part. As an incident in itself, yes, the holdup was awful. I maintain that Linda is at least partially at fault for that, but the event itself was terrible and traumatic to Ethan and Amber. I love that this comic shows that Ethan’s recovered somewhat from it and that Sal is showing remorse. At the risk of sounding like Malaya, I think this is the most human Sal has seemed. And yes, I know there’s plenty of character development through the flashbacks that we got recently, but noble desperation is a fairly often-seen trait in stories (including this one). Remorse isn’t nearly as common. Sarah doesn’t exhibit it, Amber very rarely does, Joyce certainly doesn’t. Same with Walky, Billie, Ruth, Roz, and Dorothy.

    1. BBCC

      Sal has a lot of issues with guilt, but yeah, it’s nice to see her apologizing straight up. If nothing else, it certainly shows a lot of character growth.

    2. DailyBrad

      Joyce absolutely has exhibited remorse. Look for the strips when she broke up with Ethan. That was definitely an act of remorse for being party to his self-destructive behavior and her own homophobia initially.

      Sal’s a character who doesn’t often get to be overtly vulnerable, but we do see it some, like her only expressing her feelings with some family stuff after Walky had already left, her singing with Danny after initially refusing to do so out of guilty for Marcie’s situation, and some other stuff. This would also certainly be a “guard down” moment.

      1. Lux

        Oh, geez, I completely forgot about that entire mini-arc… you’re completely right.

    3. not someone else

      This is part of why I didn’t feel like blaming her much… because I was pretty sure she’d do this, i.e. grow up, realize she made a serious mistake, and start making an attempt to rectify it now she has the opportunity.

      I dearly hope it continues like this, because that whole thematic line we have going about redemption needs an example of a good one. She did one stupid thing, we know it was for sympathetic reasons, she seems to probably understand good intentions are the start and not the end of it. I want her to be someone who actually deserves for one dumb thing she did as a kid to not ruin her life.

      1. Inahc

        Yeah.

        1. Lux

          It makes me wonder what will happen to Amber and Ethan’s friendship when Amber inevitably learns that Ethan and Sal have somewhat reconciled. I think she’ll be furious at him…

          I know Amber had to deal with PTSD and tons of terrible things, but Ethan was the one who was held hostage, not Amber. I’m a bit concerned that this is leading into a plotline in which Amber loses a lot of her likability (that being said, I’m not sure where she currently falls on the likability scale).

        2. Inahc

          nah, I think she’ll just be really uncomfortable with it, maybe mad at herself for not being able to “just get over it” or something. plus she regretted yelling at danny, so she’ll probably stop herself from going anywhere near a repeat of that.

        3. Needfuldoer

          It sounds like Ethan got at least some support and counseling after the incident. Amber just got self-defense classes and berated by Blaine.

        4. Emily

          Amber lost what little likability she had left for me when she put Walky at risk of expulsion despite his express wishes.

        5. Lux

          I forgot about that too…

        6. Zee

          And a lot of times before that too…
          I’m still not over how she treated danny

  30. Goki

    Huh…. for being such a “cool girl”. She does gravitate toward a lot of nerds.

    Also kudos for this working out so far. (I will leave it at that)

    1. Bagge

      What? Just because she hangs out with her brother, Danny, Joyce, Amazigirl… Jason…

      Yeah, I can see your point

      1. drs

        I’d say Joyce hangs out with Sal. Sal tolerates the virtual annoying little sister she never had.

        1. Bagge

          Well, it started that way, but Joyce grew on her.
          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/diner/

          Sarah had a similar experience.

  31. Irredentist

    Ethan Sal ship coming right up

    1. DailyBrad

      I mean, she may be aware he is gay, and he’s also currently banging Mike, so that might be a no-go.

      1. JessWitt

        Mike’s a one-time thing, I hope.

      2. Irredentist

        Too gay to bang Sal? Hopefully not lmao

        1. Shiro

          Pretty sure by definition yeah, too gay to have sex with a woman

        2. Irredentist

          But, gay people can have sex with women? I mean they have before so…

        3. Shiro

          Look, literally we already had a whole thing about this in the comic, disingenuousness ain’t cute

        4. Irredentist

          I mean sure, but like, theoretically, it’s physically possible lol

        5. Shiro

          Yes it is. You’re very smart. You also knew full damn well that’s not what I meant.

        6. Irredentist

          No, it’s what I meant. That’s all, that they should consensually bang for our entertainment. In a slipshine comic hahaha

        7. Inahc

          It’s also physically possible for you to stick your dick in a nest of angry vipers, but somehow I doubt you’d consent to it.

        8. Shiro

          And it’s fucking gross to make that comment about a gay dude who’s already had a whole arc about coming to terms with the fact that he’s gay, as in, not attracted to women.

          So now that we’ve reprised the thread, does it make more sense to you?

        9. Irredentist

          You should not misconstrue my interest in prospective slipshine content as some kind of anti gay spirit, because it’s really not. I mean come on, we got a panel of Joyce and Dorothy fingering each other. I think we can handle SalxEthan.

        10. the final pam

          I’m just gonna cut to the point: it’s gross, even as a “””joke”””, to suggest that a gay man have sex with a woman, in spite of his entire character arc being about how damaging it was for him to closet himself again and to attempt to force himself to be with someone that he could never bring himself to love in a romantic or sexual sense.

          Yes it’s physically possible for a gay man to have sex with a woman, and many gay men do have sex with women, because they are obligated to by compulsory heterosexuality and fear of homophobic backlash. You are not being cute here. You are being highly inappropriate.

        11. BBCC

          First of all, that was a pinup, not a full comic, second of all, he only does those ‘what if x and y were bi’ on April Fools so like..not exactly just for whenever.

        12. Shiro

          Whether you’re intending to be homophobic or not, that’s what’s happening here. If you can’t figure out the difference in context between erasing Ethan’s hard-won sexuality by having him have sex with a woman and the Joyce/Dorothy slipshine you mentioned, someone more patient than me is going to have to explain it to you.

        13. Irredentist

          Look, I’m not saying he should go back to being closeted or any of that. I like his character development. But seriously, a slipshine of him banging Sal doesn’t change any of that. These are fictional characters. Yes they deal with real issues, but you can draw them any which way doing whatever you want, it really doesn’t matter. Sex doesn’t have to be political.

        14. Shiro

          Sure, okay, they’re fictional characters. But you understand that gay people actually exist in the real world, right? Gay men are real. Gay men are also pressured by their families, their communities, by society at large, to just suck it up and have sex with (marry, fall into a socially acceptable marriage with, have children with) women. Your comment does not echo into a vast empty void, there’s a larger societal context here, and with that in mind, you are being gross

        15. Shiro

          Ugh, forgot to proofread since it’s late and I’m annoyed, but you get my meaning.

        16. the final pam

          I’m sorry, what the fuck here is political?

          You are being homophobic. Full stop. You are not respecting Ethan, or any gay man for that matter, when you suggest they just be “not that gay” for one woman, for one moment, just for your amusement. It doesn’t matter if they’re fictional characters, in comic they dealt with this exact same fucking issue and it turned out! Joyce was homophobic!

        17. the final pam

          If you don’t get it: it’s homophobic to erase a character’s sexual orientation for the purposes of putting them together in a straight pairing. You are taking away representation by turning a gay man or a lesbian straight, even if it’s for the purposes of a one-off porn.

          Take the L and go.

        18. Irredentist

          Personally, I’m playing for team bisexual. Idk if that makes a difference, but I’m familiar with societal expectations. All the same, this doesn’t have to be a such a big deal.

        19. Irredentist

          Ok fine what if we do Walky Ethan instead. You wouldn’t even notice the difference.

        20. the final pam

          Look, you made this comment “But, gay people can have sex with women? I mean they have before so…” with full knowledge that gay men usually don’t do so because they want to but because they are forced to by society, but you’re still going, “Oh, it’s not a big deal.”

          Stop.

        21. Shiro

          I’m bisexual too and I don’t recall authorizing you to speak for all of us.

          I’m glad you think it’s no big deal. Obviously some of us disagree.

        22. Irredentist

          Or maybe they just want to have children? Like I can think of plenty of circumstances why a gay man might genuinely want to have sex with a woman. It’s very far from unheard of.

        23. Shiro

          Just…just stop, dude. Nothing you’re saying is winning you any points. You’re not even on topic anymore. I am pretty fucking sure Ethan, a college freshman, is not trying to have kids. Also, we have attained turkey baster technology.

        24. Inahc

          “this doesn’t have to be a such a big deal.”

          yes, it does, because of all the horrible things that still happen in the real world to this day. because, at least in this corner of the internet, we want people to *not* feel like the convenience of the majority is more important than their identity.

        25. Irredentist

          None of this is on topic. This whole thing started because you got SO MAD that I DARED suggest a pairing you dissapprove of. Admittedly for partially legitimate reasons. But even so, this is not the most intelligent investment of time and effort.

        26. Inahc

          turkey basters? fuck that, Ethan uses a super-soaker-like gadget in Shortpacked 😀

        27. Shiro

          You are absolutely right. Trying to talk an ignoramus into understanding why their thoughtless comments are homophobic and harmful is a waste of my time, because the ignoramus learns nothing and I lose sleep time. So I’m going to stop bothering, hope you eventually get some character development!

        28. Inahc

          Heh, now I’m reminded of the scene in game of thrones where someone tells her new husband to just pretend he’s banging her brother.

          But seriously, that was a pretty messed up comment. Just because something *can* happen, doesn’t mean it *should*.

        29. Irredentist

          Not just because it CAN happen, because I want it to haha. Come on, sexy people having sex, what’s not to like?

        30. the final pam

          The fact that Ethan’s gay and not at all expressed any romantic or sexual interest in Sal at all and that it’s really gross and disrespectful to hope that Ethan’s “not too gay” to bang Sal, let alone have sex he would most certainly not enjoy in any way because he is gay.

        31. Tacos

          I’m just gonna say this. Just fucking stop.

        32. TGS

          And there it is. Selfishness. Putting what you as an individual want ahead of what someone else wants in a way that does hatm to the other individual.

          Some people want to extend their empathy even to fictional comic characters. Thats because they care about these characters.

          Others clearly dont care, probably because “they are just comic characters – they arent real”. Which is true. But its kinda like that old highschool poster. How to you live when no one is watching?

          Your comments are upsetting people becauae they imply that you are selfish and uncaring of others, caring for them only as far as they get you something you want, regardless of what they want. I am not saying that is true of you overall – I don’t know you well enough to make that judgement. But that is the impression you have given with this series of comments.

        33. thejeff

          I guess an April Fool’s decidely non-canon bit wouldn’t be a big deal. Anything more than that seems off to me.
          Shipping seems to pretty much ignore canon orientation (and many other things) in general – though usually in the direction of same sex pairings of heterosexuals.

        34. Regalli

          Everything else has been brought up, but:

          Apart from April Fools, Slipshines are canon. And as far as I can tell, the noncanon ship stuff tends not to make a marginalized character unmarginalized – I don’t think Willis will ever sign off on Carla doing something sexy, for instance, because she’s a sex-repulsed asexual and overriding that even for a noncanon thing would be really painful for those of us in the audience who are ace, even if we’re not sex-repulsed ourselves, because our identity is not respected by society at large. Same thing with an Ethan/Jocelyne ship once he and we realized who Jocelyne really was (which is why Jocelyne’s original tag was her deadname and Ethan lost all crush with that ‘oh’ but continues to seek her as a mentor,) because that would imply Jocelyne isn’t really a woman.

          Ethan and Becky are both gay characters whose arcs heavily involve accepting that fact and dealing with the fallout from their bigoted parents. Both kinds of parents, the Toedads who react violently and the Naomis and Sauls who say conformity and pleasing them is worth making yourself miserable, exist in the real world. And because everything we have seen of Naomi thus far is ‘fuck that girl’s brains out and be the normal straight son I want,’ anything in which Ethan ACTUALLY has sex with a woman would be playing into her homophobic behavior, and it would be harmful to Ethan in-universe and the gay readership out of it. And let’s be clear here, due to the low proportion of dudes in this comic to begin with and an even lower proportion of gay and bi guys, it would be especially harmful to do that with Ethan. We lesbians aren’t shy on ships or representation here, but gay male readers are.

          I mean, what you’re proposing is literally what Saul did – ‘it may be unpleasant, and you may need to drink a lot to find it tolerable’ – does that sound REMOTELY like a good idea? Compulsory heterosexuality hurts. Implying we’re all ‘a little bit bi’ and there’s an ‘exception’ to our gayness out there hurts. So yeah, we’re all super pissed off by your comments because I’m gonna guess everyone LGBTQ in the readership has dealt with at least one ‘well-meaning’ homophobic comment in our day. Probably more. Probably loads more.

    2. Adam Black

      Let’s just make it :

      Ethan / Sal / Danny since there can be only one ,
      ( Or the fandom will have a cow ) .

      But if it were up to commenters Ethan would still be a chaste Gay and wouldn’t even be allowed to bang Mike.

      It’s got to be tough, not being allowed to have meaningless sex, every Nut a sacred political act, approved by committee.

      1. Adam Black

        Oh crap. That icon I was assigned is obnoxious.

        It’s literally the worst. A wink and leer.

        1. 3oranges

          At least you can’t see his finger guns.

      2. Norah

        I don’t think people wanted Ethan to be chaste. It was more that we didn’t want him to have sex with Mike because Mike is an asshole and is probably using Ethan to hurt Danny.

        1. DailyBrad

          If he is, this is like the slowest burn anything Mike’s ever done. I don’t really see much of a point in that, given he’s interacted with Danny like twice.

        2. Emily

          The point is to hurt people because it amuses him.

        3. thejeff

          He outright said that’s what he was doing. In an aside to the audience, so it’s not like that was part of some other scheme.

        4. Regalli

          Yep. I am Team Ethan Fucks Someone Who’s Not THAT Guy. Any other dude-oriented dude we’ve seen here I’m fine with, just not the one we know is a lying manipulative bag of dicks. (Sayid has a boyfriend per Slipshine, right? Because if not that would be a nice way to bring him more into the strip, we all like him.)

          (Someday I’m gonna get Slipshine for all the canon, but not today.)

        5. thejeff

          I think Sayid had a casual encounter in Slipshine, not an ongoing relationship. Might have turned into something, but wasn’t at that point.

        6. Regalli

          All right then, there we go. Barring further information, I’ll put Sayid and Evan on my outside Ethan ships. (I’d still like to see him with Danny since they clearly have a mutual crush, but mostly I want Ethan happy and not involved with Mike long term.)

        7. DailyBrad

          He’s also said he fucked someone’s mom for a nickel. So, sure, he could be serious, but he’s also not incapable of… well, what passes for a joke with him.

        8. thejeff

          But he said it in an aside and then he proceeded on the plan to seduce Ethan, just like he said he would.
          Maybe he’s having some second thoughts on it, but it’s really hard to argue that wasn’t what he had in mind.

  32. Rabid Rabbit

    Every time Sal meets a boy, they ruin things by turning out to be nerds in the last panel.

    Jason insisting he’s only a fraction of The Man.

    Danny’s endless poor taste in last-panel songs.

    And now this.

    Poor thing just can’t get a break.

    1. Irredentist

      At least she still has Blade Dog and Destroyer

      1. Bagge

        DAMMIT, I WANTED TO MAKE THAT JOKE!!!

        (Good one! High five.)

    2. Keulen

      Maybe Sal should just accept that she has a thing for guys who turn out to be nerds.

  33. Poskie

    Panel 4 Sal is best Sal. That little smile!!! ?

  34. witHazel

    Honestly I love the fact that no-one his age in current continuity is into transformers the way he is. It’s kinda endearing like a kid into rockabilly stuff in the 70’s.

    1. BBCC

      Eh, he still has Amber.

  35. Wright

    I’m going to share something that I’ve been stewing on for a while, ever since we saw Linda and Charles win Worst Parents of the Year, then saw Sal make a Really Dumb Decision.

    So Sal gets angry with her parents, act as lookout for some kids clearly robbing a place, then basically goes to extreme length to become the “hoodlum” that her mom is afraid she’ll be. From Amber’s perspective, she IS that criminal; nothing more to her. But we don’t criticize Amber for that, or at least not too harshly – we know what she’s going through, and while that doesn’t excuse some of her more egregious actions, we have understanding for her and we still LIKE her.

    So, Sal and Amber – two characters who clearly have done some Pretty Bad Stuff, but we know a lot more about them and they’re protagonists of this story. Neither is an all-black or all-white hat.

    Now, we see Linda and Charles, and ALL we see of them is this moment in which they impact their kids, and some current interaction – sending presents in the mail, family weekend, etc. How did they get this way? Abuse, after all, is cyclical – very likely, Linda acts this way because HER parents similarly abused her, taking her things, giving her no privacy, etc. She married a black man in Evansville, IN, which is South-ish enough to likely not have gone over well with her own folks back when she was a teen. Considering that she clearly does harbor some racial bias, I think it’s probably not too big a stretch to assume that she dealt with much of the same scrutiny that Sal had – accusations of ‘running with the wrong crowd,’ of being a hoodlum, etc., and had ultimately rebel against her family. She may have these strong feelings because she feels she can tell far better if her daughter’s going down the wrong path, having been there.

    And Charles – I’ve seen that attitude before. He clearly loves and cares about his daughter, but there’s something he’s afraid of. His wife completely has him cowed into always supporting her, up to allowing this sort of abuse. I’ve seen this before – it’s the exact same thing that you’d see in a beaten-down housewife who won’t stand up to her husband. He makes jokes to ‘lighten the mood’ and hopefully diffuse the situation, but can’t exert any more will over the situation than that. I don’t think that Linda is physically beating him or anything, but clearly she’s got him under some sort of emotional guilt/blackmail.

    Now, if you’ve been reading this and been thinking “This is the point in which he says that these guys really aren’t all that bad,” NO – that’s not the point. My point is that they’re supposed to represent real people. Every single one of these characters were once at the same age as our protagonists, and they weren’t all Marys or Gashfaces. It’s not that hard to look at, say, Charles, and see Walky in him – Walky, who can see clear favoritism and unfairness and look the other way, who has to convince himself that it’s OK to be garbage sometimes because his self-contempt just won’t allow him to try to be better. Or look at someone like Naomi and see, say, Joyce – a Joyce who was never confronted with anything that contradicted her worldview; who never had to look her deeply-held beliefs in the face and realize that there was something not right about them.

    For many people, college is the last chance when our minds are truly free and able to make a great change. After college, people don’t often make any radical change. Liberals will become more liberal; conservatives more conservative, religious more religious, etc. Real, honest-to-goodness change is difficult the older you get. I see people say, “Well, it’s understandable for Walky or Joyce to be screwed up in some way – look what their parents did! – but the adult has no excuse; they should know better!” That’s not quite how it works. Older isn’t necessarily smarter, and it’s a lot harder to change the later in life you go.

    I guess my point is… for every single Linda or Ross or Hank or Charles or Clint out there, I always gotta remember that at one point in time, they were just like the protagonists here. And probably dealing with many of the same exact issues.

    And it does make me worry where Amber and Walky and Billie and Joe and all the rest will one day wind up.

    1. BBCC

      I think its interesting to a point to consider where the abusive parents came from, but at the same time, they are the adults in this situation and as such are obligated not to be abusive to their kids. Like, at some point as an adult, the onus has to be on them to get help. They are not children anymore. Heck, I don’t even really buy ‘but she’s only a child’ as an excuse for Joyce (she’s not. She’s an adult now and needs to make her own choices, though yes, as a new adult she’s still heavily influenced by her upbringing and deciding what kind of adult she’ll be).

      Like, I’d probably feel sympathy for them if it were the direct influence of abuse as well (though probably less than when the kids lash out and do terrible things like hold up stores or stab people – A) because again, the parents are the adults here and b) the kids were still currently under the thumbs of abusive parents vs adults who’ve been independent for god knows how long still doing this shit instead of trying to get help).

      Also, abuse is not always cyclical. Sometimes, indeed, people deal with their issues badly even if they have wonderful parents.

      1. Wright

        Agreed 100%. I think, though, that the Freshmen in DoA (who are, after all, technically adults themselves) also have on themselves the burden to make good choices and to not be abusive. Each of them has the benefit, though, of not actually having children or any significant attached person, so their stupid decisions only affect themselves.

        It’s not easy to rise above what you grew up in. It’s even harder to even recognize to begin with that you have a problem. As people grow older, we tend to surround ourselves with like-minded individuals who don’t challenge our thoughts or pre-supposed beliefs, regardless of what you believe in. But when you’re in college, you’re away from everyone that raised you and in a brand new setting, and can start to make your own decisions. The longer you live, the more your life stays in the same sort of rut.

        My point is not that “at some point” the onus is on them. RIGHT NOW, the onus is on Walky to not be a lazy pushover of a dad who lets Mum do whatever she wants. The onus is RIGHT NOW on Joyce to love her future son when he comes out to her. The onus is RIGHT NOW on Joe to forgive his wife and keep his family together even though she cheated on him. The little faults and foibles that we see today that don’t affect anyone other than themselves will one day affect every person that they love. Who they decide to be today will forever impact who they are tomorrow.

        That’s why, of all the characters on DoA, I’m most impressed with Hank. He really turned around from where he started, and did it with probably sixty years worth of thinking in the opposite way. That’s amazingly hard to do. I still remember the last time we saw him, telling Becky that her mother would be proud of her.

        I wonder what our old pal Joe is up to. We haven’t seen him since, what, March? I wonder if he kind of crashed hard.

        1. thejeff

          Hank essentially is Joyce, but he’s Joyce if she never met all these weirdos in college and was forced to confront her bigotry. He just stayed in his insular little world and kept getting worse, until his daughter forced him to. And then he tried to change.
          Yeah, Hank impresses me.

          For the kids, they’re technically adults, but as you say, college (or the equivalent age if you’re not going to college) is a time to break away from family influence and figure out who you’re going to be. And we see almost all of these characters doing that to one degree or another. We see them changing and growing.
          Which is why I can’t really hate any of them. Even when they do things that piss me off. (Certainly not for things they did when they were 13, in Sal and Amber’s case.) It’s only those who’ve shown no signs of growth that I really dislike – Mary and Mike come to mind. And even they could grow and improve, though I don’t think it’s likely to be where the story goes. Joe was that way for a long time, but it was always inevitable he’d get his growth arc.

        2. Wright

          Yeah, I kind of worry about Mike. I really don’t know what to think about his last flashback story – about his slow decline and who he is today. I don’t know if he does what he does out of love, or anger, or self-hate, or just plain sociopathy. He’s extremely private, and I think he’s by far the loneliest character in DOA.

          Mary, honestly, is what happens when you come to college and are so absolutely, 100% certain that you’re right that you refuse to be changed. This isn’t just what happens to ultra-religious types; I see it often also with liberals, too. It judt kinda works here to bag “zealot” and “Christian” together. Being so convinced that you’re right and everyone else is evil scum is kind of a human thing, and is always a reminder to me that there are always more ways than one to look at things.

        3. thejeff

          No, it’s more than that with Mary. Mary’s not just a zealot. That’s just an excuse. It’s all about power and control. She spies on people. She looks for blackmail information and saves it up for later advantage.
          If she was just strict and religious – like Joyce was to start, but unwilling to change, she’d be reacting like Joyce was, flipping out at every new revelation of sin. She’s not. She sees them, hides her reaction and saves up it up for later.
          She’s actually like Mike in that way, cataloging weaknesses to use against people.

        4. BigDogLittleCat

          Except Mike at least has the integrity to admit that’s what he’s doing.
          Mary is the sanctimonious hypocrite who’ll pretend she’s doing what’s right and moral. I wouldn’t be surprised if she tries to claim she’s doing it “for their own good.”

        5. BBCC

          I absolutely agree with this. They’re adults now and it’s time for them to figure out how they’re going to adult and what kind of adult they’d be. That said, I don’t believe Joe would be obligated to forgive a cheating wife. He WOULD, however, be obligated to not play the kid off on her or make public events so hostile that the kid feels obligated to keep low key and leave asap.

        6. Wright

          Yeah, I was a little reaching with Joe there. Not trying to say that it’s always right or always wrong to forgive in that sense – but my feel of Joe is that as his dad’s cheating and tearing apart of his family is *the* defining part of his life, that a spouse doing the same to him after years of faithfulness would be the most painful thing to experience. But if a future spouse was serious in trying to reconcile, it would be by far both extremely difficult to try to patch it up, but also something that he might have a deep-down desire to do, not wanting to destroy the family in the same way.

          Of all the people on DOA, Dina is queen. She’s literally got it all together. She knows what she wants, she’s got what she wants, and there’s nothing stopping her. I worry about everyone else, but Dina – she and Becky in twenty years will be in a trailer somewhere in South Dakota, excavating an Apotosaurus and dressing in full-body dino jammies at night while watching the Land Before Time or something.

        7. BBCC

          I think Marcie’ll be alright. She seems pretty together. I hope the others will develop towards being healthier too, and I think there are encouraging signs for Walky, Joyce, and Joe. Amber and Billie need help but I’m confident they’ll get it.

          But yeah, as for that Joe scenario, I can see Joe WANTING to work it out, but I don’t think it’d be wrong for him to say ‘nope, I’m done.’

        8. thejeff

          Marcie’s pretty together apparently, but she faces really serious practical challenges.

        9. Fart Captor

          Forgiveness is not a matter of right and wrong. It’s a choice, and it’s one that nobody is obligated to make.

          In that scenario, Joe might choose to forgive, hoping the relationship can be saved, but no number of children or years of faithfulness would make it wrong for him to end it. Those are things that he’d likely consider as he decided, but in the end it’s entirely his call.

        10. Vulcanodon

          Pretty fond of Hank myself. My kids have played a big role in my efforts to change, and I have made uncertain progress losing friends along the way. I’d love to check in on him and see how it’s going.

      2. General Tekno

        Well one thing to consider too re: Linda is that Charles was her SECOND husband; she married Dean McHenry first. I’m guessing that she initially did the thing that was expected of her by everyone but found no fulfillment in it.

        1. BigDogLittleCat

          Probably because she couldn’t push around Dean McHenry.
          Or, maybe *he* decided he didn’t want to be married to someone like her.

      3. Ashley

        I mean parents are people, too, y’know. One of the hard things with seeing Linda in the flashback is that now I can see the actions of my parents as mistakes that were made with love and with the best intentions in mind, but that royally fucked me up. Unintentionally. With love.

        It’s easy to be angry at Linda and say she should’ve done better, but in her mind she did what was best for her daughter. A lot of things influenced her, yes, but one was a love for her daughter. Unmistakably.

        Adults aren’t perfect, as much as we wish we were, and we’ll fuck things up with the best of intentions.

        1. CJ

          I don’t know. Where did you see love for Sal coming into Linda’s actions?
          I don’t dispute that parents often do things that are bad in the outcome with the best of all intentions and the roadblocks hell is paved with those anyway, but where did you see love in any interaction between Linda and Sal?

        2. CJ

          Road to hell, wherever the roadblocks came from *sights*

        3. Norah

          I was going to say that too, CJ. I think Linda is more afraid that people will think she’s a bad mom if anything happens to Sal. I don’t think she loves or even likes Sal. Walky, yes, but not Sal.

        4. Ashley

          “I think Linda is more afraid that people will think she’s a bad mom if anything happens to Sal” yes, also, she loves her daughter and doesn’t want anything bad to happen to her. Both statements can be true.

          You can make a bad parenting choice and still love your child.

          You can be a bad parent, and still love your child.

          It CAN be both, people.

          As for where I see the love? In the fact that Linda is worried, stays up to wait for her, gets angry at seeing Sal making a choice she disagrees with, in that they’re still trying to give her the tools for her to have a good life by paying for her college. Yes, there may be a “must look like a good mom” incentive, too, but EVERYONE does things based on how they look to others.

        5. Wright

          CJ – not sure that I mentioned anything about love from Linda. Charles, sure, but in Linda’s case I’m not so sure and wouldn’t presume.

        6. BBCC

          They’re referring to Ashley, I think, not you.

        7. CJ

          Yup, I was referring to ashley.

        8. BigDogLittleCat

          Nope. Linda does not get benefit of the doubt that her intentions were good. I’ve no doubt she’ll *claim* she’s doing it for her daughter’s sake. But the fact is, she’s abusing her daughter.

    2. Regalli

      People can still change provided they try to learn and are exposed to other people and ideas. People can tend to get set in their ways, but that’s mainly if they stop letting themselves learn about new perspectives. (When my parents first met, a point of contention was that my dad had voted for Reagan and my mom was a liberal from a historic peace church. My dad is now farther left than my mom in some respects.)

      And as to abuse being cyclical… I can certainly see Charles having internalized some shit and I have no idea what his interactions with Linda are like. But after a certain point, I don’t care what brought Linda or Carol or Naomi or Blaine or Clint or Toedad or ANYONE to that point, because the end result is that they do harm. Abused children aren’t destined to grow up and abuse in turn – a lot of people actually fear that a lot and worry they shouldn’t ever get in a relationship because they don’t want to risk it, or second guess everything. It’s not a particularly healthy attitude to promote.

      The onus is on an adult to minimize their harm to others, particularly people who are vulnerable and in their care. Period. Nothing I find out about the familial Blaine will make me forgive him on his death bed. He hurt my family. My family responded by not hurting their kids. I have reason to believe his childhood was difficult, and conflicted feelings about my great-grandparents as a result, but ultimately he’s the one who chose to cheat on people, to harm his children, to (I think) embezzle from churches he was pastor of, and to generally be terrible. So fuck him.

      1. Wright

        I agree with you in the “I don’t care what made Blain the way he is because he’s an unredeemable a**hole” (does this comment section have a curse filter? Not sure.) I’m in no way interested in trying to alleviate some of the guilt on, say, Ross and make him a sympathetic character.

        But I care in much the same way that a scholar of World War II might study the rise of Hitler – not because he was just some mistaken individual who we should all love, but because *he came from somewhere,* and you need to try not to make MORE Hitlers. And this particular group of protagonists has a really high ratio of crappy parents, so there are a lot of issues and concerns.

        The people I’m most concerned about (other than folks like Mary and Malaya, who I’ve already written off):
        Walky
        Billie
        Ruth
        Mike
        Amber
        Joe
        Jason
        Robin

        Robin’s kind of an interesting case to me. She’s done bad, a -lot- bad, but I don’t see her as being beyond redemption. Much of what she did was completely impersonal and without realizing the grander consequences- which in no way excuses her, but does mean that she could have it in her to turn around and do some good now that she’s “woke,” as the young’uns say. If she does ever return, it’ll be interesting to see where she goes.

        1. BBCC

          Only for b***h because it was waaaaaaay overused to the point it started getting creepy with regards to Roz. And also another rude word for a woman that begins with a c.

        2. Regalli

          Didn’t know that latter one was censored, but glad it is since yeah.

          (I would miss bongo if it were ever uncensored.) There’s also at least one historically censored line just for being overused (‘but for me it was Tuesday’ from the Street Fighter movie,) but apparently it was recently uncensored.

          I worry about Joyce a lot as well. She’s made fantastic progress, but I expect she’ll still have a few more stumbling points and her boundaries are still terrible.

        3. thejeff

          The censor I miss the most was the one for SJW.

        4. Inahc

          What did it turn into? 🙂

        5. thejeff

          “Glistening phallus”. 🙂

    3. Sam

      I don’t think college is really the last time people can or will make radical changes so much as it may be one of the FIRST opportunities to if they have controlling parents. For some people it may be where they make their biggest changes. Whether they’ll make more is usually up to whether they are WILLING to make more.

      1. thejeff

        Last is probably a strong term. Even first may be strong. Still, regardless of how controlling your parents intend to be, it’s generally your first significant time out from under their direct influence and that’s a big deal. (Interesting point that for some, like Sal, boarding school may provide a similar opportunity. Structured and crappy though it was, it’s still different and thus a chance to change without just reacting to your parents.

        Not the only time, but by far the most common. You’re kind of forced into it.

  36. OnyxIdol

    “Sal is really pretty when she smiles. She should do that more often.” *runs away really fast*

    1. BBCC

      I know right? Sal looks super cute when she smiles.

      1. Needfuldoer

        Poor kid deserves more reasons to.

  37. DailyBrad

    Huh. You know what? People got really incensed with the idea that Mike really wanted to bang Danny or Ethan to make the other jealous, after throwing it out there once in what could have been throwaway, could have not. It’s not impossible it’d go that route still, though given he hasn’t really done anything with that since, and seemed to hook up with Ethan for quite different reasons, that does make me wonder one thing.

    Say Ethan and Sal become friends. It’s been cordial so far, and I am glad, but, there’s the Danny element. Is one of them going to get jealous of the other? Is Amber still going to be possessive about Danny, even though that already bit her in the ass?

    Dark horse: Danny and Walky fuck instead and the universe collapses.

    1. thejeff

      It’s a very different situation since Ethan is gay and Danny has always claimed not to have any romantic interest in Sal. I’m not sure where the jealousy really comes in.

      1. DailyBrad

        I was suggesting Ethan may feel jealousy with respect that Ethan would be into Danny, not with respect to Sal.

  38. Fire_daws

    Awwww, they’re friends already

    1. Bagge

      Your gravatar+comment combination makes me happy

      1. Emperor Norton II

        You just know that whatever sort of entertainment Claire is consuming, she’ll by busy shipping the characters.

  39. erejnion

    Too soon, Sal, wait a few more years until you joke about PTSD-injected nerdiness.

    1. Stoodmuffin

      I was going to say something but this perfectly sums it up

    2. Felian

      also, it might just NEVER be your position to joke about something you inflicted on somebody.

  40. TlalocW

    I pronounce, “GIF,” Guh-jif (or Juh-gif) to piss off both sides. I imagine Mike does the same with that transformer.

    1. Stoodmuffin

      I can’t BELIEVE I haven’t thought of Juh gif. Thank you for inventing, or alerting me, to my real life catch phrase now

    2. Sunny

      The g is actually silent.

  41. Stoodmuffin

    “It’s more than ah deserve,” she says right before making a dig, at a person she’s trying to be accountable to, kinda poking at the trauma she’s trying to make up for?

    I mean, I handle less major stuff way worse at an older age, so maybe I should stfu. Buuuuuuuut. Workin’ on it, Sal. Working on it.

    I hope any confrontation between Amber or Amaze girl is HALF as good. I mean, I THINK AG is handling it better than Amber?

    1. Eldritch Gentleman

      Let’s be fair, Sal was never a subtle or delicate person, she is more of a human baseball bat, blunt and to the point.

    2. BenRG

      In Sal’s defence, Walky has probably bred in her a considerable aversion to nerds and geeks in general.

      1. Stoodmuffin

        That, is fair. So is Eldritch’s point

    3. BBCC

      To be entirely fair, when Ethan jokes about how her potentially mispronouncing a character name is less forgivable than holding a knife to his throat, I think a joke about him being a huge nerd is more okay than if she were just apology.

      1. Regalli

        And he’s clearly meaning it as a joke to begin with.

      2. Felian

        But it makes a difference whether Ethan jokes about it, or Sal. Ethan gets to cope however works for him, but Sal as the one who caused the psychological harm does NOT get to joke (unless previously negotiated that it’s ok for Ethan). I guess she does it out of awkwardness, but still…

        1. BBCC

          I could understand that if Sal initiated it, but I’m not sure how you’d respond to Ethan’s comment without being at least a little snarky.

    4. Stoodmuffin

      All good points. And I single out Sal, here, but I mean they are both doing their best and joking around here.

      Justttt was thinking it may seemed a little. Not as thought out as Sal may hoped.

      But really, they are both trying to grapple this shit and I can’t judge either of them. Like, fuck. I want to hug them both and that’s the only thing I know for sure.

  42. Icalasari

    I hope the next comic has Ethan mentioning Amber and her connections to Sal both in the past and now

    Because THAT needs to be discussed

    1. Bagge

      Well, yes. But I can see Ethan being REALLY cautious with outing Amber to the focus of her trauma.

      He might have a point

      1. DailyBrad

        Yeah, that’s frankly not Ethan’s business to discuss. Ethan’s got his own part in this, but Amber’s is hers and hers alone to get into with Sal.

        1. Bagge

          That said, I REALLY hope he tries to discuss it with Amber at some point.

          “Tries” probably being the operative word, sadly.

  43. Koms

    Thank God we got this strip. I love it. I was dreading that it was going to cut to Raidah or something else.

  44. Darkoneko

    now hug

    1. Bagge

      Sal does not come from hugging type of family, sadly.

      http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/04-the-whiteboard-dong-bandit/firelitup/

      1. Bagge

        Which, given what we now know about Linda and Charles, is ONE OF THE GREATEST MYSTERIES IN THE KNOWN UNIVERSE!

  45. kilgaen

    A genuine, heartfelt smile of relief from Sal. Will wonders never cease?

  46. BrokenEye, the True False Prophet

    Haha, I have literally no idea what you just said

  47. Zaxares

    Thankfully, it was a pre-existing condition, Sal. 😉

    1. BenRG

      I’m pretty sure that, at some point, Sal is going to tell Amber that she and Walky were pretty much meant for each other.

      1. ego

        oh, he may piss her off, but sal doesn’t want to see david get shanked.

  48. BenRG

    I honestly think that Sal’s smile in panel 5 is the happiest and most honestly open I’ve seen her face in the strip, or as much of it as I’ve read, which is about 3 years. Ethan’s forgiving nature is clearly something of a balm to her soul (and I mean that unironically).

  49. FacelessDeviant

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=6ufeZ0iN5Sw

    Nerdy? With -this- kind of Tribute stuff?

    I think not, miss Sal.

  50. Nep

    ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

  51. Betty Anne

    Ethan has no time for weebs, apparently. :p

    1. BenRG

      He is an on-line pop-culture trivia elitist, yes.

      1. Bagge

        People are being nerds wrong!

  52. 1 2 2 50 in Roman numerals

    Ethan and sal bein best pals would defenitely have a negative affect on ambers mental health….so yea its obviously gonna happen

    1. abysswatcher1993

      Now I can imagine Amber in a 9S kind of rampoage of destruction.

  53. abysswatcher1993

    You don’t know him well, Sal. He is the ultimate transformer nerd.

  54. Benwhoski

    I totally get Ethan here, though. “THIS CONVERSATION IS AWKWARD! QUICK! START YAMMERING ABOUT YOUR FAVORITE PIECE OF MEDIA THAT WILL HELP!!!”

  55. MatsuoTanuki

    Progress..?

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