291

Punchin’ game
Posted on November 26, 2018 by David M Willis
IT'S CYBER MONDAY!  Which means that as a Cyber Person, by law, I have to do some sort of fancy sales deal today with my wares.  Well, shoot, here we go:  Every online store order I receive today will also come with a free character magnet!  You don't get to choose the magnet, but you get a free, random character magnet included in your order.  Order a book?  Free magnet.  Order six books?  Free magnet.  Order some magnets?  Free magnet!  Order Joyce and Walky! subscription page HTML links?  .... sure, I'll mail you a magnet, why not. Happy cyber!

291 thoughts on “Punchin’ game”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    no more punchin’

    Sal has turned over a new leaf: KICKBOXIN’ VILLAIN

    wait no

    SKATEGIRL

    1. Ana Chronistic

      the alt-text is me p much 24/7 lately

      1. Yet_One_More_Idiot

        It is me 24/7. In fact, 25/8. I have CFS (among other things). xD

    2. tim gueguen

      Nah, she’s about to get a suit of powered armour from Carla.

      1. John

        But she’ll refuse to wear it because Carla put her name on the vambraces.

      2. Doctor_Who

        I read that as Catra and was about to write a comment about how that’s really more Entrapta’s department, really.

        I may need to go to bed.

    3. Piotr W

      Or she will drop punching in favour of *burning* things. In her superhero / supervillain identity, she will be known as… the Super-Salamander!

      … oh wait, that name’s from a Gillian Cross book…

  2. AnvilPro

    Really Dorothy? The only reason you stopped them from fighting is because you expect them to be a hero duo who keeps fighting crime? That’s a less noble reason than I was expecting

    1. tim gueguen

      Given her probable beliefs it’s a bit surprising she supports vigilantism. And of course she doesn’t really know the extent of Amber’s problems, nor the level of violence Amazi-girl sometimes resorts to.

      1. Jamie

        Pure guess, but I think Dorothy admires and envies the fact that they’re in the mud, doing actual things, making actual change, rather than the life of eternal preparation she’s had so far. There’s a trade-off, but Dorothy doesn’t see it because all she sees is what she’s NOT doing.

        1. thejeff

          And even so, she wouldn’t support real world vigilantism, which tends to involve white guys shooting people of color in questionable circumstances. Which, for all Amazi-Girl’s flaws is a far cry from what she’s doing.

    2. AntJ

      She hasn’t been jaded yet. She just thinks they’re being noble by stopping Ryan’s cronies, and that AG fights for what is good in the world. In reality, both needed an outlet for serious psychological trauma but realized they had to break the circle or it would never end. Dorothy hasn’t been reading the flashbacks!

    3. DailyBrad

      I would imagine the primary reason is still “these are people I like and would like to not end up expelled and/or in jail”.

      1. Havtorn

        If that was the case she should be all for them quitting vigilantism.

  3. Doctor_Who

    Dorothy’s plan to appoint a Secretary of Punching when she’s president hits a snag.

    But the position for Director of Slightly Hard to Parse Syntax just got a new frontrunner.

    1. Rowen Morland

      Punchbot for Secretary of Punching, 2032!

      1. King Daniel

        2032? We might be in the spring semester by then.

      2. abysswatcher1993

        Doesn’t Punchbot work as an accountant?

        1. Tawdry Quirks

          Spookybot told Punchbot to draft a plan to get investors to fund the ‘above-board’ replacement for the underground fighting ring. So presumably Punchbot is now running the new fighting ring.

      3. Marsh Maryrose

        I am not good with GIMP, can you tell? But here’s the best I could do:

        Secretary Punchbot

  4. BBCC

    As much as I maintain there is absolutely nothing wrong with kicking the shit out of Ryan and his bros, this is probably for the best. Sal needs to learn to pick battles without too much splash back for other people. And frankly, she needs a break.

    1. Yumi

      Yeah, like, I want them taken care of, but also…there’s a lot of ways that whole thing could go sour really fast.

      1. BBCC

        Especially because I love you, Sal, but WEAR A MASK YOU DUMBASS.

        1. John

          Also, hide the butt-length hair.

        2. BBCC

          The tattoo as well.

    2. Kris

      I hate to say this but as much as beating the shit out of Ryan was a good thing, cracking the skulls of his bros is a bandaid at best cause realistically they’re still out and free to terrorize victims or whatever the hell they were doing. I don’t actually know if there is a viable solution to fix that beyond catching them in the act and reporting them with evidence. Not even sure if that’s enough.

      1. BBCC

        Yeah, Sal pointed out the same thing.

      2. thejeff

        Though technically, it’s not clear beating them up was the plan, though AG did seem enthusiastic about it. That house was a decoy and there was no need, but AG was delayed looking for her mask, so Sal didn’t know it.

        Fake doxing and stopping them if they do pick one of the right addresses isn’t actually a bad plan, even if it’s still a bandaid.

      3. Drunk Mike

        There is another solution, but it’s not something they ought to do.

        1. TemperaryObsessor

          Burner phone and call the police about the break in and let the police know what they mean.

    3. brasca1

      Yes. Destroying people like Mike is so much more effective and safer.

      1. Yumi

        You really stan Mike, huh.

      2. CJ

        That’s an ambiguous wording, brasca. Do you mean destroying people Mike’s way or destroying people like Mike?

  5. Bagge

    I’ve never identified as much with Dorothy as now.

  6. newllend(henryvolt)

    Dorothy doesn’t get it, Sal just took a good look into the Abyss tonight and she did not like what she saw. Retirement would be reasonable.

    1. Goki

      Sighs… beat me by 6 min….

    2. Lux

      Well said.

    3. abysswatcher1993

      Some people look at the abyss and either become stronger, or become evil. Others, like Sal, get tired.

    4. CJ

      It’s not like Sal’s epiphany was shown on the grand screen for Dorothy to see.

  7. Roger

    weird resolution

    1. alice

      “weird resolution but ok”
      did i do the meme right?

  8. Mr. Mendo

    So, Sal won the moral victory, as well as the actual victory! Good for her! ^_^

    1. DailyBrad

      She gave up round one in a real big way, but yeah, mounted a comeback. I still think Amber’s probably tougher than her, overall, but they’re kind of the top two in the comic, followed by I guess Ruth.

      1. BBCC

        There are no rounds. Even if there were, getting knocked down for a second isn’t losing a round, especially when she got up and choke slammed her into the concrete. Regardless, that got ugly and it’s good its over.

        1. ego

          um, she got back into the fight when her opponent stopped bludgeoning her and started celebrating.

        2. BBCC

          And? Amber celebrating too soon doesn’t make the fight over.

        3. Freemage

          I believe the argument would go along the lines of, “It was clear that Sal was unable to stop the bludgeoning herself; if Amber had been following standard street-fight protocol, Sal would have been lucky if she only woke up in the hospital, rather than the morgue.”

          …

          Yes, I realize I did just suggest the notion of a ZombieSal. I’m comfortable with this.

        4. BBCC

          Whether Sal would have been able to stop the bludgeoning or not, Amber stopping to celebrate too early still doesn’t make the fight over.

        5. thejeff

          There’s a lot of effort invested here in who won or who should have won or who was dumb to stop fighting first.

          Hell, you could make exactly the same argument about Sal stopping when she was choking Amber. If Amber hadn’t already been done fighting, she could have gone back after Sal.

          My take is that they both stopped fighting before they had to and that’s a good thing. That’s why they both won, in my opinion.

        6. BBCC

          Honestly, that whole fight was a bad idea on both parts. However, I also grew up with a huge nerd for an older brother. Who won a given fight is my bread and butter. Let me have my fun. 😛

  9. Stephen Bierce

    *lets “Wonderwall” continue to play*

    1. Delicious Taffy

      Today is gonna be the day that is gonna be the day that is gonna be the day.

      1. Needfuldoer

        *Gives the table the record player’s on a nudge*

  10. Kyrik Michalowski

    Sorry Dorothy, as glad as I am that you saved them, I completely agree with Sal. I can only imagine how this affects Amazi-girl, if at all.

    1. Clif

      If current trends are any indication, Amazigirl won’t remember it at all.

      1. thejeff

        Really looking forward to the next time Amazi-Girl finds her sidekick to get help stopping dudebros.
        And Amazi-Girl has no idea that anything’s changed.

        1. Roborat

          I was just thinking the same thing.

  11. Kris

    Why are you even pro vigilantism, Dorothy? You wanna be president!

    1. Goki

      “IF” Dorothy became president or someone in power, I bet she would have wanted an Amazagirl Spotlight, or “The Sal Phone”.

      1. Nono

        Dorothy is the Mayor of Townsville?

        1. C.

          The Powerpuff Girls are basically deputized law enforcement.

        2. Needfuldoer

          Wait a minute, why was Professor Utonium making little girls in the first place?

        3. Clif

          Everyone needs a hobby.

        4. Lokitsu

          The canon is that he was lonely and wanted to be a father. It just got a little out of control. In a good way.

        5. Delicious Taffy

          You know, most guys, when they want to become a father, they go out and find a nice partner who also wants to become a parent, and then they make a kid the old-fashioned way, or adopt one.

          I guess if you want super-powered triplets, though, it’s better to go the mad science route. At least it skips the whole “carrying three babies” thing and doesn’t require human experimentation.

        6. BBCC

          The Professor was single and didn’t seem to have a ton of work towards changing that. He went on a few dates over the show, but for the most part, he seems happy enough being a single dad.

        7. thejeff

          Adoption is a thing. 🙂

        8. BBCC

          Sure, if you want to do things the easy way. 😛

        9. thejeff

          For Science!

        10. Drunk Mike

          In one episode the girls go back in time and save the professor as a child. This inspired his research into superpowered children.

        11. Zee

          Wasn’t the super power thing a total accident though? In the intro he’s just trying to make sweet little girls and accidentally added chemical X

        12. Drunk Mike

          Retcon I guess.

    2. Piotr W

      Yeah, she’s a total enabler here. I expect more of her :\

      Also, I thought she might also try comforting Sal, not just Amber.

      1. DailyBrad

        Sal’s her ex’s sis, and even when they were dating, tended to hold Dorothy at arm’s length. She also just doesn’t know Sal as much as she knows Amber, and Amber saved her life once. I don’t know if Dorothy expects Sal wants comforting from her, and going by her retreat, she’d be right, from the looks of things. Wonder if Sal’s going to get her glove.

        1. BBCC

          I’m pretty sure panel five is her snapping her glove back on.

      2. Wendy

        Eh, it’s been a general trend in the comic that nobody takes Sal’s problems very seriously. Nobody but herself seems to think it’s a big deal that she got stabbed in the hand by Amber – even Amber sees absolutely no problem with it, for all she rails about being so terrible and a “monster”. It’s not surprising for people with abusive tendencies to not actually acknowledge or even feel justified about the very shittiest things they do – and Amber clearly feels justified about stabbing Sal. Even though when she stabbed Sal she wasn’t acting in defense whatsoever.

        Sal held up Ethan, yes – and she’s apologizing. She’s actively tried to reach out and make amends. She’s grown from it. Amber doesn’t see anything wrong with what she did.

        1. Kris

          We have yet to see how Amber’s actually taking all this. Still really pissed she didn’t even try to apologize but hey maybe later. It would be really shitty if she doesn’t do some self reflecting after this though.

        2. McBogue

          Amber has had recurring, terror-inducing flashbacks about stabbing Sal.

          She sure as HELL sees a problem with it, because that’s when she BECAME the monster.

        3. Badgermole

          Yeah but that’s still … horror at what happened to her rather than regret about its effects on Sal. Amber knows it was a Bad Thing, but she’s still lacking empathy towards her victim. But hey, I hear self-loathing can make you focus obsessively on yourself, so.

        4. marillius

          Sal made her a victim first with an armed assault. You can’t cry about spilled milk when you’re pouring it on the floor. Or to put it in a more general term… Don’t point a weapon at someone unless you’re willing to get hurt by it.

          I don’t think Sal deserved what she got, that’s not how it works, but Amber sure as heck doesn’t deserve to be crapped on for what happened. Sal was NOT a victim. She was a violent offender who got stabbed by the weapon she brought to the gas station by one of the people threatened by that weapon. It doesn’t matter if she was restrained or not because Amber, by most legal definitions, was a victim who suffered severe mental and emotional trauma caused by Sal. Sal put her in that position. Sal made her feel that way. Sal hurt her and then Blaine put salt in the wound and Amber lashed out.

          What Amber did wasn’t great but it’s no more her fault or responsibility, moral or legal, to treat the one who committed a violent crime against her nicely. None the less apologize or admit ‘well maybe they had a good reason’. She doesn’t have to forgive. She doesn’t have to understand. She does need to get some serious mental help but that is partially Sal’s fault and almost 0% Ambers that no one has gotten her that help since she’s clearly not capable of recognizing the need.

        5. Kris

          Amber doesn’t have to apologize, she doesn’t have to be a good person either. Which I personally don’t think she really is.

          That being said she doesn’t get away with stabbing Sal clean. Just as there are laws protecting Amber in the gas station event there are also laws protecting Sal. Escalation is a thing and for Amber to feel justified in that stabbing leads to a dangerous mentality potentially involving lethal force as well.

          Just like it’s Sal’s fault Amber has trauma it is Amber’s fault Sal can’t play the guitar and feels she has to wear a glove the rest of life.

          They both need to learn something from this. Not just Sal. Not just Amber……..But I personally think Amber more!…..Cause I don’t like her…..and she has bad taste in shoes….I’m obviously biased here.

        6. Drunk Mike

          You don’t think Amber’s a good person because she retaliated against someone who tried to kill her friend? Yes, Amber feeling justified could have lead to a slippery slope, but it didn’t. The worst thing she’s done since then is stab a rapist.

        7. thejeff

          I’d say the worst thing she’s done since then is the harassment, stalking and attempts to get Sal to fight her – which was Amazi-Girl, admittedly.

          Even stomping Blaine into the ground is probably worse than stabbing Ryan with knife he so conveniently brought for her.

        8. Kris

          @Drunk Mike. No. It has nothing to do with Amber stabbing Ryan or really much to do with this incident with Sal. There’s a ton of other stuff to dislike Amber for I could do a whole masterpost if I felt like digging.

          Here’s a few examples as I remember them:

          She lost her shit on Ethan for going back in the closet. I appreciate evrrything she did for him, but that doesn’t give her a right to his sexuality and how he chooses to present it.

          She has a bd temper. That is a major character flaw. She threw a chair when Dorothy discovered she was Amazi-girl! Like holy shit!

          She also snapped at Danny for kissing her once with her mask off. She immediately apologized but that was still despicable. Especially with the confusion between her two identities 90% of the time.

          Amber’s also fairly hypocritical. Like picking a fight with Sal for underage drinking then immediately giving Billie a pass for being completely wasted the same night.

          There’s other examples but that’s enough I think.

          This is just my opinion though. So no big deal. I don’t like Walky either, or Mike.

        9. thejeff

          Several of those delve deep into the growing distinction between Amber and Amazi-Girl: Amber herself commented on giving Billie a pass at the time – “maybe Amber is allowed to be inconsistent”. Of course, the drinking was just an excuse to go after Sal. Probably best that she was hypocritical and didn’t decide she needed to attack anyone drinking underage.

          Or with Danny: Yes, she really needed to explain the identities thing to him more clearly, but from her point of view, he kissed her inappropriately, when he was dating someone else. Too extreme and unfair to Danny, since he never had the opportunity to understand the split, but basically understandable. Especially with her immediately apologizing and backing down.

          She certainly does have a bad temper. Probably made worse by her pushing all her self-control onto the Amazi-Girl persona.

        10. BBCC

          It absolutely matters whether or not Sal was restrained. With very very few exceptions, its the difference between self defence/defence of a third party and assault with a deadly weapon. If Sal had gotten stabbed in the course of self defence or defending Ethan, that’d be one thing, but that’s not what happened. She was egged on by her shitlord father. It was unquestionably assault – whether or not she’d be found guilty due to her dad’s abuse and her trauma from the robbery is another question, but that doesn’t make Sal not a victim of assault. It’s just a question of whether or not Amber would be punished for it.

        11. thejeff

          Not just of whether Amber would be punished for it, but the moral question of it to. The extenuating circumstances make it far less awful than if she’d just walked up and attacked Sal for no reason (even with Blaine’s egging).
          Not to say it wasn’t still wrong of course.

        12. BBCC

          exactly. The fact Sal was no longer a threat also has to be taken into account when weighing the morality.

          And frankly, my stance on this has long been ‘they’re each other’s victims and each other’s aggressors’ so this has been a very interesting arc.

        13. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          “And frankly, my stance on this has long been ‘they’re each other’s victims and each other’s aggressors’ so this has been a very interesting arc.”

          My thoughts exactly. Whatever the specifics, this is the biggest factor in their relationship. Sal has realized, for the first time, that she shares culpability for the downturns in her life, and, while Amber still has a long way to go in that regard, she’s felt her first sense of accomplishment AS Amber, rather than Amazi-Girl–I think that was necessary for any sort of healing to begin.

        14. BBCC

          Well, in the robbery anyways. There’s definitely bullshit that’s just bad luck (looking at you Walkerton parents).

        15. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          Oh, yes, no question that they were both dealt terrible hands when it came to parents. I think that lies at the core of what makes both characters’ simultaneously sympathetic and alienating: they BOTH suffered in childhood–their mistake was thinking it was impossible that the other had ever suffered more.

          Regarding that, I will say that at least Sal’s parents PRETENDED to act from a place of love and concern, whereas Amber had a legitimately deranged father who held her in naked and violent contempt. One doesn’t excuse the other, of course, but it was my thought when Sal made presumptions about Amber’s a upbringing a few days back.

        16. BBCC

          That’s true, although on the flip side of that, Amber at least had a loving mother. The whole situation was crap and Blaine and the Walkertons all should have lost their right to parent a long time ago.

    3. Tom T.

      Commissioner Gordon was pro-vigilante.

    4. Wizard

      I’m having trouble remembering the last President who was all that big on the whole rule of law thing. So, not really disqualifying.

      1. Jamie

        At first I keep being surprised that people expect other people to be black-and-white, and then I realize that those people are part of that exact problem.

      2. Agemegos

        Carter.

    5. BBCC

      Dorothy is also a nerd who thinks superheroes are cool.

      1. thejeff

        Mostly this. Being pro-superhero is good. Being pro-vigilante is bad. The connotations to the two are completely different.

        1. PB

          THANK you.

    6. WonderRabbit

      How do the two relate?
      Are you implying presidents cannot pro-crime, or even criminals themselves?
      Look at Presidents Johnson, Nixon, and Luthor…

      1. Clif

        You make a good point.

    7. Keulen

      I used to have higher expectations of presidents, but I’ve lost them in the last couple years.

    8. Drunk Mike

      Pretty sure being pro vigilantism would help her platform, and frankly, it’s not the worst thing a president has supported.

      1. 3oranges

        There was this guy who said he would pay the legal bills for any supporters who got into fights, not even to stop criminals, and he won.

        1. BBCC

          He’s also a white guy claiming to care about Christian values though. Dorothy’s an ethnically Jewish atheist lady. Much harder to swing that.

  12. Goki

    This resolution is actually working out better than I could have ever expected.

  13. Piotr W

    Oh my, it’s just as I wrote earlier: Sal *is* becoming a prophet of pacifism!

    Fast-forward 1000 years: crowds gathering in temples to meditate on the Book of Sallandra…

    1. abysswatcher1993

      I hope active pacifism and not that modern passive pacifism that many people preach to be “civil”.

    2. Lingo

      I think her full name is literally Salvador, which is even better.

      1. King Daniel

        …her given name is “Sally”. She hates it, which is why everyone but Linda refers to her as ‘Sal’.

        Why would you think it was “Salvador”?

        1. Delicious Taffy

          I was gonna make a Resident Evil 4 joke, but apparently the character I was thinking of is called Salazar, so it wouldn’t work, and now I’m miffed.

        2. BBCC

          It was a joke in walkyverse that Sal’s mostly short for Salvador.

        3. Lingo

          Oh, it was a joke? I honestly thought that was her real name.

        4. Kamino Neko

          Salvador is a man’s name. Do you see Linda Walkerton giving her daughter a cross-gender name?

          (It’s Sally.)

        5. Needfuldoer

          She could always use a pet name for her middle name, ‘Elizabeth’.

        6. Piotr W

          Her name is Sally, but you can bet it’ll get mangled and mistranslated during the next 1000 years!

          And I’m telling you, when she gets to her room after making her exit from today’s strip, she’ll start writing. She’ll continue writing tomorrow. Gradually, the pile of notes will grow… then, someone will compile it…

          The faithful of Sallandra will change the world!!!

        7. 3oranges

          Sallandra is a composite deity. Sal and Ra. I’m sure of it, but mainstream Sallandrism is so popular nobody will take the idea seriously.

        8. Piotr W

          Now that’s a perspective I haven’t thought of!

          Topic for discussion: the role of Amber in Salladrism?

        9. Lingo

          “Sally” sounds like a nickname, TBH.

  14. Tom T.

    “I know all there is to know about the punching game….”

    1. Wizard

      Please consider yourself upvoted.

  15. Yumi

    I know people are saying they’re surprised by Dorothy’s response, but it’s possible she has conflicting beliefs that she hasn’t fully analyzed. After all, they’re beating up the supporters of a guy who came after HER with a knife.

    I think Dorothy could be made to see the problems with vigilantism, but she has different factors affecting her views on it, especially in this case.

  16. Badgermole

    Dorothy… did you even hear the part about Amber stabbing Sal in the hand? Or see the part where they were beating the shit out of each other? To expect them* to keep fighting crime together after all that is pretty frigging naïve.

    *I know it’s actually Sal and Amazi-Girl fighting crime together but as far as Dotty knows AG = Amber, so.

    1. King Daniel

      Dorothy was indoors and a little distance away when she saw the fight (and she presumably ran away to get Ruth as soon as possible), so the odds that she heard the part about the stabbing and/or saw the full extent of the fight are slim.

      1. Badgermole

        Nah, she was right there when Sal told Ruth about the stabbing: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/01-flyin-to-the-red/hipsters/

        1. King Daniel

          Right, forgot that part. Guess I’m another one of those in the comments section feeling like the hovertext right now. 😛

      2. Yumi

        Well, they recapped the hand-stabbing-holdup stuff once Ruth was there. And Dorothy was also there.

    2. Tom T.

      Dorothy understand that super-heroes always fight when they first meet each other, and that’s sort of what was happening here, as they learned each other’s origin stories.

    3. Drunk Mike

      They could fight crime seperately.

  17. BarerMender

    Sal’s last speech: damn well said.

  18. newllend(henryvolt)

    Also that 3rd panel just screams the self-loathing thought ” Not only am I not a good person but am I also not be a good friend.”

    1. BBCC

      Sal? Self loathing? Nah. Whoever heard of such a thing with emotional abuse victims?

      1. BBCC

        Wait, wrong panel. My bad.

        1. newllend(henryvolt)

          No no you’re right they’re both emotional abuse victims. One out of neglect and the other one out of being put down all the time.

          Thinking about even deeper though it’s all so messed up with their contrast and everything. The problem with Blaine after the spousal abuse, infidelity exposure, and divorce, is the he still tried to force his way back into Amber’s life which complicated things.

          While Linda seem to only want to parent Sal when she was hanging out with someone she didn’t want her family associated with because she had a bad impression about them that could ruin the family reputation she cared so much about and when she thought Sal was to far gone she convinced her husband to help her send her away and pretend she didn’t exist.

          Two far opposite extremes of bad parenting resulted in this. It’s so odd and tragic how things go.

        2. BBCC

          Well, Sal’s also got plenty of her parents putting her down (“another lecture from my folks ’bout how I’m a failure” – I swear to god if it becomes possible to enter a strip, I might just murder those two) and Amber got a front row seat to her dad physically abusing her mom.

        3. Axel

          We don’t know that Sal’s dad didn’t agree with sending her away, he could have been just as fine with it as Linda.

        4. Axel

          (also, I guess I’ll also concede that it wasn’t fully Linda’s decision to send Sal away, that came from whatever court. Linda probably picked the option that was farther away and for longer though, to get rid of Sal and also to be able to tell her friends it like Sal was getting an opportunity)

        5. newllend(henryvolt)

          She probably gave him the ultimatum of either boarding school or juvie, hard not to see which one he would prefer.

        6. Axel

          I don’t think Linda’s the one who came up with the ultimatum, though. I mean, I believe she’s shitty enough to, but I’m pretty sure it came from the cops or whatever ‘court’ sort of thing Sal went to after holding up the store.

        7. Loz

          I think it’s pretty clear at this point that Sal’s dad is completely spineless and just goes with whatever Linda says regarding the children. I doubt he even has an opinion on the whole thing other than “Linda’s always right”, but if it does, it’s probably “I agree with Linda”. He doesn’t even seem to consider making those decisions his responsability, which is terrible.

          By the way, when Walky and Dorothy were together they had kinda of a similar dynamic (maybe not so bad because they have less responsibilities and Dorothy is less evil) and it freaked me out a lot. I hope Walky manages to avoid becoming his father.

        8. thejeff

          I don’t think that’s clear at all. It may well be far too forgiving of Charles.
          Linda has been more active, but we’ve never seen him suggest anything different or raise even a token protest to suggest he thinks otherwise. He may well be more than just the passive enabler.

        9. Regalli

          Charles was also the one who, when Sal came in and they immediately started talking about her hair, expressed disappointment it was curly even as they all knew the straightening appointments were long and probably pretty expensive. Even if Charles didn’t know Sal’s conflicted feelings on the matter and what it represents to her – which, if he didn’t, means he hasn’t paid that much attention to her and she doesn’t trust him to open up beyond that – he’s gotta have the awareness that the first time tour whole family’s in the same place in five years is not the time to start talking about how much you like your daughter’s other hairstyle that’s really time intensive. (I’m pretty sure if her parents had made some genuine effort with her and Linda hadn’t immediately pivoted to ‘Walky’s new girlfriend’ she would’ve said the hair appointment could wait.)

        10. BBCC

          Seriously, we’ve never gotten any indication Charles disagrees with Linda. Looking sad when Sal bails on family day or when Sal starts crying is not the same as actually being a decent father trapped by his own cowardice. We also have a few indications he also takes part in this crap (Sal usually talks about her parents plural saying crappy things to her and, as Regalli pointed out, he’s the one who insults her to her face). Not that him being a coward is much better. If we had indication Linda was abusing him too, I’d be more sympathetic, but as it stands right now, he seems to me to be either a coward or just as crappy a parent as Linda, neither of which is a good look.

    2. BarerMender

      I wonder if Amber is regretting having to go on. She thought it was going to be over. Or she was hoping it was.

      1. newllend(henryvolt)

        Well she’s the one who wanted people that hate her.

      2. Zee

        In that third panel I think its mostly just guilt over dating walky

        1. newllend(henryvolt)

          For some reason I don’t know why I thought that’s what he meant and there was some type of typo or something.

  19. Cholma

    Can Sal be my “Gorram Hero” or “Big Damn Hero”? I’ll accept either one!

    1. Keulen

      They tell you ‘never hit a man with a closed fist’, but it is on occasion hilarious.

  20. mackabre

    I think, even if Sal felt up to fighting off Internet sexists again, there’s no way in hell she could ever trust AG for backup so it would be even more reckless than before.

  21. kitty

    anybody else once thinks dorothy had clavicle piercings and that was a odd design choice for a nerd type who wants to be president until they are freckles

    1. kitty

      the more tired i am the more my english suffers

      1. Darkoneko

        piercings ? those are freckles (frekles ? Whatever you write them)

  22. DailyBrad

    I am glad Sal’s walking away. I hope this will be an enlightening experience for her, and I hope Malaya got checked extra hard at roller derby tonight.

    …what, Sal can be the bigger person, but I’m still working on it. 😛

  23. Lux

    Dorothy was … disappointing… in panel 5. Also, I agree with Sal here. Things got out of hand LONG ago and she’s finally realized that it needs to end.

    1. Badgermole

      She was (ie Dorothy was disappointing). Unintended entitlement coming across strong. And it would be fairly obvious to Sal that while Ethan and Dorothy are there for Amber, no one at the scene really care about her or what she just went through emotionally. If Danny doesn’t go after her I will be very sad.

      1. marillius

        Sal swung first here.

        1. Badgermole

          Debatable, and even if she did, so what? This was physically and emotionally brutal for both girls.

    2. Darkoneko

      It feels like Dorothy is grasping at straws for reasons not entierely related to the hero thing.

  24. Hazel

    “ah’m not a lot of things people want me to be” Well, if that isn’t Sal in a nutshell 🙁 I’m hoping she becomes what she wants herself to be at least.

    1. Darkoneko

      she doesn’t know what she wants to be, either

    2. McBogue

      Maybe she can team up with Mike, who’s whatever you don’t want him to be.

      (Sal can point and laugh at someone while Mike delivers a flying kick…)

      1. Hazel

        I feel Mike would test her no punching mission.

        1. Clif

          He would be sure to.

  25. BarerMender

    Sal has to be mighty sore, right now, after that ass-whipping by Amber. I hope she has plenty of Tylenol.

    1. BBCC

      I’m sure Amber’s just as sore. Patrol tonight will be fun for AG.

      1. BarerMender

        Amber only took two shots, both to the head. She might have a sore neck, and some bruises from hitting the floor, but Sal took four body blows, two from kicks and one from a handrail. It’s a wonder she isn’t screaming in the back of an ambulance. I can tell you from experience, cracked ribs hurt like a bastard.

        1. BBCC

          If nothing else bruised ribs aren’t fun either, so I’m told. On the other hand, Amber’s gonna be in turtle necks for like a month so. There’s that.

        2. Vulcanodon

          Darn right. I just love it in the movies when the hero has a broken rib and still fights. Experience says “no”.

        3. thejeff

          Adrenaline is a helluva thing. I broke a couple ribs and I could have fought. I did drag myself out of a cave, a couple hours trip at that point.

          The next day, I couldn’t have done anything.

        4. Tadpole7

          Only head shots? Those can mess you up just as much or more than the body shots. With one or two exceptions hits to the head have caused me more concern than body hits.

        5. BBCC

          Also, Sal choke slammed Amber into concrete one handed. That’s also a good way to fuck someone up.

  26. goggleman64

    Goddamn it Sal you’re still /so cool/ X)

  27. abysswatcher1993

    Sal will be fine, Dorothy. To be a hero you have to be willing to be a hero, and also don’t have deep mental problems like Amber.

    The world doesn’t need capes, but it will always need heroes.

  28. MatsuoTanuki

    Bullet dodged. Kudos to Sal for at least making some progress… especially when both her and Amber desperately needed this catharsis, ill-timed though it was…

    1. newllend(henryvolt)

      The catharsis is really needed right now since the two of them need to fix some broken stuff inside of them. Sal with that new found Epiphany of hers and Amber with the psychological gap between her and amazing girl getting wider which is not good.

  29. Kris

    Also even though Sal and Amber just threw down, Dorothy’s the one who got roasted!…..Much like the honey roasted almonds in each bite of Honey Bunches of Oats cereal! And let me tell you, if any of the people involved in this scuffle directly or tangentally knew how so much flavor was packed in each sweet honey cluster while maintaining a vital part of a balanced breakfast, this whole thing would’ve went a completely different way! But they didn’t, because they’re all idiots. I hope Sal does retire and sets an example of living a violence free life of staying humble for everyone.

    1. abysswatcher1993

      That would work for Sal, but a violence free life seems boring to me. To keep peace and law sometimes you have to punch idiots that think they are too smart for living peacefully.

      Yes to pacifism, no to passivity

      1. Delicious Taffy

        Yes to punchifism.

        1. Delicious Taffy

          …Dang it, Mindress definitely refers to herself as a punchifist. Thanks for the inspiration, abysswatcher1993.

  30. Darkoneko

    me too, alt-text. Me too.

  31. Derek

    did I skip a strip or something? it took me a while to understand that Dorothy is talking about Sal beating up Gashface fanboys with Amazi-girl.
    And since when does Dorothy idolize SAL over that? I thought Dorothy used to be an Amazi-girl fan only, and that stopped when she found out more about Amber’s issues

    1. BBCC

      Dorothy’s always been a fan of AG. Yeah, she was freaked out by Amber stabbing Ryan, but she’s also grateful that it saved her life. She may not idolize Sal specifically for fighting Ryan, but she thinks its important and wants that to continue.

      1. stoodmuffin

        And fair enough. It saved her life!

    2. Fart Captor

      Dorothy never stopped idolizing Amazi-Girl. She stopped writing about her only because she didn’t have time for it

      Also, almost EVERYONE idolizes Sal. It’s kind of a thing

  32. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

    So, feel free to disagree with me, but I’ve been pretty disappointed with Danny, Ethan, and Dorothy throughout this fight scene. Combined, all three could have easily stepped in to stop the fighting before campus security got involved (or failing that, should have at least tried).

    Danny and Ethan were cowards. I mean, I understand that they were in shock, that neither is necessarily brave nor bold, and that there would have been no drama if they leapt in, but still: Amber is Ethan’s best friend, and Danny has friendly/romantic relations with both her and Sal.

    I’m glad that if Dorothy had to get someone, it was Ruth, but, even beyond what was revealed in this strip, I don’t trust her motivations. She’s got an unhealthy love of authority figures (hence, the “tattling”) and a bit of a savior complex: for instance, in her mind, she was selflessly “saving” both Sal and Amber and, by extension, making the campus a safer place, rather than simply stepping into a situation she was neither involved in nor understood. A bit like some politicians I can think of. That Amber is simply a friend and worth helping for that reason alone hasn’t been mentioned.

    Anyway, none of this means the characters aren’t well written or fully and realistically developed (proper credit to Willis for an amazing comic), and I love how both Amber and Sal both got something emotionally out of the confrontation–I’m just disappointed by Danny’s and Ethan’s inaction and how the other characters always seem to interpret Dorothy’s intentions as altruistic rather than calculated.

    1. JBento

      Danny and Ethan were smart. Getting near that fight would get THEM punched. Fists work faster than brains, and neither Sal nor Amber were pulling punches.

    2. Reaver

      Right? HOW DARE THEY not..get involved in a full on brawl between two people that want to hurt each other, this surely could have only resulted in peace if they had dove in to try and stop the two women much stronger than them!

      Remember kids if you see a very violent fist fight and someone in that fight wishes to die? You need to just charge in there and stop the blows!

      It’s a great way to end up in the hospital!

      1. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

        Sure, from the perspective of self preservation, what Danny and Ethan did (i.e. nothing) was safe and smart. My argument is that, in this case, other imperatives should have trumped the desire for staying out of harm’s way.

        I’m a staunchly non-violent, non-reckless person. Of course you don’t throw yourself into random brawls, a la Phoenix Jones, because you never know how things could escalate–that’s what the police are for. But Amber and Sal are both people that Danny and Ethan care about. What if Sal hadn’t come to her epiphany in time to stop choking Amber? What if Amber had been unconscious when Ruth arrived? Amber could have ended up seriously, maybe permanently, injured, and Sal could have wound up expelled or even in jail. What would Danny and Ethan have said to each other? “Thank goodness the two of us are okay, at least! I’m glad we couldn’t even muster the fortitude to run for help!”

        The right course of action in any given circumstance will no doubt vary from person to person, but I believe there are times when you set aside personal safety to uphold a basic adherence to decency: risking an elbow to the face to stop two friends from hurting each other, braving a burning building to rescue a family member, etc. These are times where the question is not whether you’ll live if you try, but whether you’ll be able to live with yourself if you don’t.

        Back to this fight, though, I think the actual risk to either Danny or Ethan was fairly minimal. They might accidentally get punched. Maybe a broken nose (not even for Ethan, who’s at least six feet tall). So what? That’s nothing compared to what their friends were ready to do each other. Just my two cents. And don’t get me wrong: Danny and Ethan are two of my favorite characters, specifically because they are good-natured, self-reflective people. This is more of a philosophical issue I have with the their present indecision, not least of all because we are in the middle of arc dealing specifically with notions of heroism.

    3. thejeff

      Getting the relevant authority involved when there’s a serious fight going on isn’t “tattling”, it’s the responsible thing to do.

      If I’d seen that fight and wasn’t in a position to try to break it up myself (or was smart enough not to), I wouldn’t be going for the RA, but calling 911 and getting the cops and an ambulance. Just from watching a couple of those hits, I’d be expecting at least one of them to be going to the hospital.

      Unless I knew they were in the comic equivalent of an action movie, of course.

      1. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

        Yes and no. I certainly think Dorothy’s actions were better than Ethan’s or Danny’s, who did nothing. And I’m glad, if anybody had to be called in, it was Ruth, who was inclined to be sympathetic.

        My argument is that going to the authorities, specifically regarding people you know, is not always necessary or helpful, especially when “dealing with it” can be limited to those who understand the situation and care about those involved. Authorities exist to mete out punishment in order to uphold a basic norm of acceptable behavior, not help individuals through crises.

        In a very public blowup like this, yes, calling someone was better (and braver) than standing around merely watching the mayhem. But in my mind, it wasn’t the most ideal solution, especially if you were genuinely concerned about Amber and Sal, which, based on this strip and my other observations on Dorothy’s character, I’m not sure applies.

        There’s a difference between looking for help when things are truly out of control and simply turning to a higher power whenever dealing with something yourself would be inconvenient or uncomfortable: personal vs. status-quo morality, I would call it.

        1. thejeff

          The other question is how to tell when something is truly out of control. From Dorothy’s viewpoint, this could easily have looked that way. It did to many readers.
          And very easily could have been: If Amber hadn’t stopped when she had her moment of triumph, she would have seriously hurt Sal following up. If Sal hadn’t had her revelation, she could have easily done real damage with the chokehold.
          And there was little to nothing Dorothy could have done to intervene on her own, other than jump in and hope they were in control enough to stop. Not sure what your “ideal solution” for Dorothy to try would have been.

        2. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          Fair enough: everyone’s perspective of what “out of control” entails is going to differ, and it’s not okay to expect more from someone than they’re willing to give. Safety IS important, and you don’t want to get dragged down over your head.

          That said, I think ideally, Ethan, Danny, and Dorothy would have worked together to end the fight before it really began. Danny and Ethan could have risked a few blows to stand between Sal and Amber. This is not to say fight them: there’s no question who would have won there. But I think after an accidental punch or two, neither Sal nor Amber would have proceeded to hurt the two boys; they’re not Khorne Berserkers, after all.

          Granted, there’s not much Dorothy physically could have done from where she started, but hopefully by the time she got down there, the main confrontation would already have been averted, and she would have been able to reason with the two combatants (given that she is nothing if not reasonable). Maybe they would have calmed down, maybe one or both would have stormed off–but the violence could have been nipped in the bud without risking a official action. (After all, what would have happened if Ruth hadn’t been so discreet?)

          So, in my mind, yes, all three characters should have jumped in, accepted the risks, and personally worked to de-escalate the situation based on shared bonds of friendship. That’s a high standard perhaps, and one based on classical heroism, but considering the fact that both Amber and Sal would have done the same for any of them in an instant, I don’t think it’s too much to ask. Again, my disappointment stems from Danny and Ethan’s complete petrification and Dorothy’s inability to operate outside the book or outside bureaucratic channels. Inappropriate for the characters? Not necessarily…but still disappointing from an ethical standpoint.

        3. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          Also, it’s precisely because of the possibility for serious injury that decisive action was needed, which nobody provided. The fight was over of its own accord before Ruth got there. If Amber and Sal hadn’t been able to break off from combat themselves, nobody spectating could have claimed to have done anything effective.

        4. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          Apologies for some repeated words in the above comments.

        5. thejeff

          True, but you can’t blame Dorothy for not knowing that it would be over before she got there. And that it would end relatively peaceably.

  33. Alanari

    Okay. Who doesn’t know that sal and ag have been patrolling together? Well, except walky.

    1. BenRG

      Willis did imply very strongly that Dorothy has been acting as Sal and Amazi-Girl’s quest-giver for a while. So, she has a particular reason to know that there appears to be a super-team in the town.

      However, I do think that she’s been seeing only the comic book characters come to life, not the two very real, flesh-and-blood traumatised young women for whom this lifestyle is a very dangerous coping mechanism. Once she realises that Sal and Amber’s mental health may depend on them hanging up their vigilante masks, she may be more understanding.

      1. thejeff

        Where did he imply anything like that?

        Do we even know she’s had any contact with Amazi-Girl since the stabbing? Or talked to Sal about it since then either?

        1. BenRG

          It’s a subtle artistic implication. When Sal, Dorothy and Amazi-Girl are talking to Joyce about Ryan, they are very deliberately posed in the same way as Black Canary, Oracle and The Huntress in the DC title Birds of Prey. Dorothy is clearly placed in the Oracle role – the person who finds those in trouble and informs the two field heroines. To me, this implies that Willis is saying Dorothy is acting as Amazi-Girl’s intelligencer (with Sal involved due to her own interest in the matter).

        2. thejeff

          In that particular instance, maybe?

          It’s a long stretch from that to “Dorothy’s actually sending them out on other missions.”

        3. kencineroar

          I think Dorothy was also forwarding texts to Amazi-Girl from Joyce during the Becky/Toedad incident, and dealing with the problem of revealing to Joyce that they had a blurry picture of Ryan, so she’s kind of been in the role of the strategist for awhile. She’s also now part of the collateral of this situation, because Walky, Sal’s brother, whom she dated… is now dating Amber.

          One of the things that angered Sal about the whole thing was that not only did Amber/AG stalk/harass her AND stab her in the hand, knew all this and didn’t say anything… she’s also now shacking up with her brother (who Dorothy, a point of connection between the other two girls, was involved with), which is a slap in the face to both Sal AND Dorothy (“We just broke up and you pounced on him already?”).

          Dorothy’s also said that “stress is fun” so I would hazard a guess that even when she’s worried about the outcome, the adrenaline rush of being involved in these events is exciting to her when she becomes an active agent in some way.

  34. stoodmuffin

    Well THIS tells me this is not close yet to being resolved.

    But I think that’s an import step for Sal. Hmm.

  35. newllend(henryvolt)

    If not idolize then probably envious.

    1. newllend(henryvolt)

      @Derek

  36. Pacce

    Dorothy surely has the makings of a fine politician and I mean that in the most damning way possible.
    Good on Sal tho, that’s growth.

    1. Drunk Mike

      That seems harsh.

      1. Pacce

        “I demand that you put your safety and freedom on the line to punch people in the face along with this clearly mentally disturbed and violent woman with whom you share conflicting traumas for the sake of me living vicariously through you!”
        Some of that is my interpretation, but yeah.

        1. Reaver

          More like “But we need you guys to protect the campus from a group of croonies wanting to go around and be violent towards women, that are in campaign of a rapist”

          She seems horrified about what will happen when those guys go unchecked, it’s not a matter of her living through them, it’s about the safety they were providing.

          Remember, Dorothy could have died in that attack, they’re her safety net, and maybe it is selfish to not want that safety net to disappear, but I mean I don’t blame her that much either.

        2. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          I think where Pacce is drawing the line, perhaps, is that Dorothy seems to have taken action SOLELY to preserve that safety net. Amber’s and Sal’s physical and mental health appear immaterial to her.

          There’s a difference between appreciating someone else’s sacrifice and demanding it. The implication that Dorothy would not have called for help, or would have otherwise turned to more convenient but less forgiving authority figures, had she realized that Sal was quitting the hero business is, I believe, what’s rubbing some folks the wrong way.

          Incidentally, I apologize that all of my comments have been so anti-Dorothy on this page. The start of my interest in posting just happened to coincide with a moment in the story that demonstrates many of my misgivings about her personality.

        3. Reaver

          Ey no need to apologize for that! You’re entitled to your own opinions and views 😀

        4. Pacce

          You got it.
          Though looking at other comments I do think I should keep in mind that Dorothy was attacked by a guy with a knife a couple weeks ago and saw her friend then carve him like a turkey. So some irrationality re Punching Jerks is understandable.

  37. MatthewTheLucky

    Not Your Hero Academia, coming never.

  38. Lucy

    Is Sal signing in panel 5?

    1. Daisy

      Putting her glove back on, I think.

  39. mrnoidea

    Did anyone notice how everything shifted to a blue shade? Technically, I guess this is from the sun setting, but for the story it shows that the scenario is cooling down, even if it’s not resolved in the grand scheme of things. Nice touch.

    1. thejeff

      Yeah, the lighting throughout this has been great. Really nice use of the real ambient lighting to reflect the red panel/blue panel flashbacks.

    2. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

      I’ve been admiring the color scheme since it first started to ramp up at the start of Amber and Ethan’s conversation about a week ago. A really nice detail that shows off Willis’ command of visual storytelling.

  40. bladecleaner

    I have to say I’m really…disappointed with Dorothy here. Let Sal make her own choices. Dorothy obviously doesn’t see how traumatized both of them are, and wants them to both keep going because she’s an idealist who thinks that a greater cause can defeat anything. Also…a white girl with relative privilege telling a black girl with a record to keep doing illegal things because it’s the right thing is just…so fucking iffy. She’s coming off kind of Roz, here.

    1. Axel

      Not to mention the implication that she would have let cops or whatever come if she knew Sal would quit.

      1. Rain

        Oh come on, that’s a huge reach.

        1. Agemegos

          It’s perhaps not true, but that is the implication of what Dorothy said.

        2. Rain

          Of course it isn’t.

          “I didn’t do this for you to quit :(” is not the same thing as “if I had known you were going to quit, I would have let you kill each other.” It is also not the same thing as “you owe me”, or “I would have gotten you thrown in prison”, which are both sentiments being attributed to Dorothy here based on nothing.

          What is particularly frustrating about the comments on this strip is how yesterday people were dumping on Dorothy for telling Amber’s secret, and now they’re dumping on her for keeping it. She also can’t sneeze without a whole line of people commenting on how this proves she’s not fit to be president, a job she can’t even begin to run for until she’s in her thirties.

          People hold her to absurd standards, and it’s exhausting.

    2. Sam

      This isn’t really like Roz. Roz talks over people and tries to socially manipulate things in her favour (which is unfortunate because she underestimates the kindness of others and makes herself far less likable in process). Dorothy hasn’t stopped her walking away. She hasn’t stopped her making her choice. She’s just surprised she isn’t making a different choice because she thought they were on the same page of doing something important. Sal fought because she thought it was the right thing to do before. And it wasn’t necessarily the wrong thing morally. But she has decided now to do the right thing for herself to prevent further violence.

      Dorothy unfortunately didn’t get to see the epiphany so this just seems out of the blue to her. And, of course, she doesn’t want Joyce or any of Ryan’s other victims to get hurt, so there is a worry that if they stop, innocent people will get hurt, even if the right thing for both Amber and Sal personally is to stop.

      1. bladecleaner

        Fair enough! However, it is a little manipulative on her part to indirectly say and/or imply “I saved your ass, so you need to keep doing this thing.” She’s not that much like Roz in this moment, but that’s where I feel it the most.

      2. Emily

        Jesus, Roz hasn’t even been in the comic for like months and y’all motherfuckers still manage to find an excuse to shit on her.

        1. BBCC

          Seriously, what did Roz even do that was so bad? The closest thing I can think of is her not realizing the collateral damage for LGBT+ people when Robin got outed. Roz didn’t out her, Leslie was 100% in on the hookup plan, and Joyce deserved to get yelled at. Yeah, Roz can be performative and self centred, but for crying out loud.

        2. Emily

          The use of the term “performative” in the context of activism is nonsense anyway. Like, yeah all meaningful activism is a performance that doesn’t make it insincere. Oh no, Roz wants to draw attention to her activism how dare she it’s not like that’s entirely the damn point of activism. What the fuck kind of activist is flying under the radar and not rocking the boat?

        3. BBCC

          I mean, I do think it’s true that Roz is also using her activism to further personal wants (like getting Robin to stop dominating her life) and there are definitely insincere activists, but I don’t think that’s Roz. To a degree, self centred, yes, but I don’t think she’s wrong. If personal and activist goals happen to coincide…well, bonus. And to a degree, I do think activist goals have to also be personal desires if you’re going to be in it for a long time because it sure isn’t a great paying gig.

        4. JBento

          But all those checks from George Soros!

        5. Clif

          Shh!

        6. thejeff

          I think a good part of is that we’ve been focused on LGBT where Roz is an ally, but which isn’t her real focus. She’s actually focused on women’s sex issues: sex-positivity, birth control, abortion. Where she isn’t an ally, but an member of the oppressed group.

          Beyond that: “Performative allyship and the de-amplifying of marginalized voices.” 🙂

        7. Regalli

          Even when she was applying for RA for self-centered reasons – well, so was Dorothy and they would both have been decent enough at the job, and Roz’s personal reason was pretty damn compelling. (Mary should not be on that dorm hall, NO ONE would be happy with her, but for Roz it has to be excruciating.)

          And despite Roz being pissed as hell at Joyce (again, deserved,) she’s nonetheless still the person who recommended Joyce in full Fundie mode go talk to a professional if something really bad had happened at the party and gave her a card for it. (I kind of hope that plot point comes back. It’d be a good way to address all Joyce’s issues with sex, plus checking Roz hasn’t been in strip since August with the Scrootoob tape and not in person since JANUARY so it could work her back into the plot.)

        8. JBento

          Roz is still getting the backlash of calling out the white christian girl.

        9. BBCC

          Too bad. I like Roz.

        10. JBento

          As do I.

        11. thejeff

          So do I, though with reservations.

          I don’t think she came off well in that whole affair with Robin and Leslie.

        12. Drunk Mike

          thejeff: Honestly, I liked seeing Robin put in her place

        13. Regalli

          No one did, really. But yeah, Roz’s biggest thing is really that she doesn’t care how she comes off to others in a lot of ways, so she maybe doesn’t think things through all the way. (If she had asked, for instance, ‘were you near that fight? Damn,’ after the party rather than starting with ‘it wasn’t so bad right?’ and dismissing the fight as ‘stupid’ without knowing what caused it. She had a point with Joyce, but Leslie’s class wasn’t the venue for a huge blowout. I don’t really think anyone could’ve foreseen that Robin would stay in Leslie’s home like that, though. It was a bad idea but the degree of badness was a surprise.)

        14. thejeff

          Seeing Robin put in her place was fine and I don’t think Roz could have foreseen how it would go, but there were a couple of bits near the end of that that soured me on her.
          It all suddenly seemed a lot more personal and less altruistic than it had started out.

        15. Regalli

          When your sister’s a politician whose views you find abhorrent (and frankly I’m not certain how deep those views are or how much she just says some of it to stay in the party, given how Becky can actually affect policy by manipulating Robin’s Twitter feed, though that’s at least as much Robin being oblivious. YMMV whether that makes it better or worse, but the fact that Roz’s sister will step over Roz and people she holds dear for a tax break would be disturbing, maybe as much as ‘I actively consider you subhuman’. When the outcome’s so massively damaging intent means jack shit,) I don’t think you can entirely separate the personal element of things. And the growing racism and xenophobia in the Republican party as the strip’s gone on has only made that situation worse.

          I think my assumption with Roz now is that she’s under some pretty extreme mental stress like, constantly and that’s probably burned through her social graces energy.

  41. Chris Phoenix

    Sal’s grammar is ambiguous.
    1) I will quit punching, forever.
    2) I will, forever, be in the process of trying to quit.
    “Quitting is easy! I quit five times last month!”

    1. Axel

      It definitely sounds like the second, but I think she means the first, or it really wouldn’t mean much to say to Ethan.

    2. Dafydd

      It would be so like Willis for Sal to mean 1 but end up with 2.

  42. Icalasari

    Holy shit Dorothy, what the hell?

    Well I was mad with Sal and Amber earlier, now I get to be mad at Dorothy

    1. newllend(henryvolt)

      On the one hand she right that they’re helping people even if it’s in the most drastic way possible, but on the other she’s not taking into account what kind of toll it’s taking out on them.

  43. 10LettersIsTooLong

    I have never identified with Sal more than in this strip.

  44. Falcon

    In the real world, violent crime doesn’t exist in the quantities it does in the Dumbing of Age universe. You can’t just walk around at night and happen to stumble upon a crime-in-progress on a regular basis. But that’s exactly what Amber does.

    If crime were that rampant and somehow not being dealt with by the usual authorities, then Dorothy would be completely justified in enabling vigilantism.

    Dorothy’s personal life is a mess right now. But each and every single time Dorothy has acted for the sake of the public, she has done the right thing based on what she knew at the time, and done it in a systematic and logical manner. This is no exception.

    1. BenRG

      I think what you said about Dorothy’s personal life is important. To her, it’s possible that helping Amazi-Girl and Sal ‘keep the peace’ is some kind of proof that she’s a good person in her head despite breaking Danny and Walky’s hearts for transparently selfish reasons (at least from her perspective of them).

      1. Rain

        stares at the last part of this comment in disbelief

        Okay, sure. Yeesh today is really “hate on Dorothy for absurd reasons” day.

    2. C.T Phipps

      Amber doesn’t stumble on violent crime. She stumbles on things like defacting stop signs.

      Ryan, however, is a real criminal with thugs she’s gotten a chance to express her anger at–and Sal believes she may have been herding them around to be beaten.

      1. thejeff

        She does stumble on violent crime and other things more serious than the vandalism. That’s probably the lowest end of what we’ve seen her deal with, which is why it keeps getting brought up. Queer bashing in her first appearance. Likely attempted rape. Car theft. Dognapping. Regular old theft.

        Herding them around to be beaten seems like a stretch. Directing them away from their real targets, more like it. Beating them up could have still been part of the plan, I suppose. Doubt Sal would have gone along with it – had Amazi-Girl not been delayed.

  45. Remmington Steele

    Sal and Danny form a band, go on to stardom!

  46. BenRG

    I mean, let’s be realistic here: I don’t think that Sal feels very heroic right now. Also, given what fighting against this world seems to have cost her, I’m not really sure that she wants the job.

    1. CJ

      Sal never wanted the job, she just did what seemed necessary to her to keep others safe. And right now, she stopped believing her method works.

  47. C.T Phipps

    I think it’s notable that Dorothy doesn’t have much in the way of a coherent political ideology yet. She wants to be President as an apex of achievement, not because of any one goal.

    Which is fine as she’s a freshman.

    1. Loz

      That’s a great assessment of her. She has some base ideals like equality (equity?) without prejudice of gender and race and possibly religion… Actually, that’s all I got from her. She’s a “good egg”, no wonder she dated Danny. She also seems to believe in law and order in a very naïve, childish way. Which is fine because she’s a freshman! Her character arc has been abt two things in my opinion: realizing her own limits and the limits of her ideals.

  48. Foolong

    Dorothy better not mess with Mayor Cookiemoose!

    1. Lux

      … QC reference?

  49. HentMas

    I really don’t like Dorothy… her reasoning for the things she does and the wobbly standards she sets on the people around her (and herself) is all over the place…

    I get that she’s trying to do “the good thing” but more often than not it just feels like she’s getting on her high horse and pointing forward without a set goal in mind.

    I like her arch, and how it’s portrayed, don’t get me wrong, I just don’t like “her” as a whole.

    1. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

      I agree with this. Above, I described her actions as calculated, while others tend to interpret them as altruistic. In this example, it’s pretty clear she intervened to protect what Amber and Sal represent, rather than who they are as human beings.

      Remember when she leveraged Ruth’s mental illness to secure Billie’s support for an R.A. position she didn’t even qualify for? She got thanked for that, as well. (I’m surprised Billie didn’t slug her in the face for even bringing up Ruth in the context of Dorothy’s campaign against Roz.)

      I think Dorothy is a fairly selfish person who uses people as means to an end (rather than connecting with them genuinely), while projecting an image of high ethical standing to deflect criticism. In other words…a decent politician. A believable character? Absolutely. A likable person? Not to me.

      (Not to say Dorothy doesn’t have good moments or couldn’t evolve…but unless she starts getting called on her more manipulative behavior, it doesn’t seem likely. Also, I would still vote for her over Trump, naturally!)

  50. FacelessDeviant

    If its so important, why don’t YOU go fight those battles, Dorothy?

    1. thejeff

      Because she’d get killed?

      1. FacelessDeviant

        So could Sal and/or Amber though.

        1. MatthewTheLucky

          Right, but it’s pretty well guaranteed in Dorothy’s case.

        2. thejeff

          Right, cause they’re Batman and she’s not.

        3. FacelessDeviant

          Amber might be Batman.

          But Sal is more like Casey Jones.

        4. FacelessDeviant

          My point isn’t really if or if not Amber/Sal can handle being vigilantes. Its about expecting them to do it and not being willing to accept Sal wanting to quit.

          It has cost them both quite a lot. Wounds, friendships, mental health, school results, risk of death and more.

          Thats a high price to -expect- someone else to pay.

  51. Dan

    Don’t want no more of the punchin’ game

  52. Peregrinus

    Nobody got seriously injured or arrested. That’s a good outcome for a streetfight, especially between two relatively experienced antagonists.

    /BEGIN Get Off My Lawn Mode

    I know I’m the weird old guy at this here party – my college days are decades back now. But believe me folks, voice of much relevant and unfortunate experience. I feel compelled to mention some things about real street combat that you may not know, and that don’t come out in this strip (for good reason, narratively speaking):

    1) Fights don’t usually come out this well. Legal complications and serious injuries are common.

    2) I haven’t been in very many fights where somebody didn’t pull a weapon. At that point, the odds of somebody getting ended or wishing they had go way up.

    3) One on one is rare. Usually, if you’re attacked, the gobshite brings some friends along for the party. If you’re alone, your chances of getting grounded, and having a few dozen IQ points stomped out of you approach 100%.

    I say these things because, by necessity, entertainments make fights look cool. And this DID look cool. No complaints. But I’ve taken enough friends to enough ERs to want to remind you not to try this at home.

    /END Get Off My Lawn Mode

  53. PB

    Sal’s doing the right thing.

  54. Azhe

    Of course Sal’s apologised again, but still nothing from everything-is-about-me-Amber.

    1. BenRG

      Give her time; she has to process the fact that she’s still alive (much against her wishes) first.

    2. Drunk Mike

      Amber doesn’t apologize because she knows it’s meaningless=selfish
      Sal apologizes, claims she didn’t do anything wrong, then gives another half assed apology=saint

      1. BBCC

        Sal never claimed she didn’t do anything wrong. What she did say is she didn’t hurt anybody (meaning physically) or succeed in stealing anything, while Amber did hurt someone and didn’t receive any sort of sanction for it.

        1. Drunk Mike

          She’s still dismissing what she did an hour after claiming she was sorry. I just don’t get why so many people give Sal a pass while shitting on Amber.

        2. Crash

          Because Sal actually realizes she has a problem and tries, fails but tries, to do better. Amber spends her whole day throwing pity parties for herselft crying about what a crappy life she has and how she is terrible and does zero about it.
          And no, Amazigirl does NOT help. At all. The sooner she acknowledges that, the better for her.

        3. Crash

          To add to this I do realize Amber has had a, to put it mildly, harsh life. But she also has a great support system that she ignores on the regular in favor of pulling the Batman deal, in more ways than just the cape.

        4. thejeff

          Yeah, screw any traumatized abuse victim who can’t start fixing themselves at 18, despite never having gotten any of the tools to do so or even any idea that it’s possible.

          And I’ll bet you could find a lot of people who’d say that Amazi-Girl had helped. Starting with Becky. Unless you mean AG doesn’t help Amber’s psyche, in which case I won’t argue.

        5. BBCC

          Where? By saying she was fighting with Amber because she stabbed her? By apologizing to Ethan again and saying she’s getting out of the punching game?

        6. thejeff

          Again, that’s technically accurate for her to say, assuming she did mean physically, though it would certainly be fair to hurl “Yes you did hurt people” right back in her face. But it’s still damn dismissive, of the danger she put them in, of the non-physical harm she did cause and of the fact she only didn’t steal anything because she failed. I actually lost a lot of respect for Sal with that line.
          And I think she realized that she did do harm when she had her revelation. I don’t think she’d say the same thing again now.

        7. BBCC

          I see why you read it that way and I’ve already gone into why I didn’t, so I’m just going to leave this alone.

  55. TheKelliestKelly

    I misunderstood Dorothy initially and thought she was upset that Sal didn’t want to continue fighting Amber

    1. Rowen Morland

      “But…my fightclub slashfic.” 🙁

  56. Goki

    Sipping my coffee, reading the comments, seeing the outcome, couldn’t be happier.

    Thank you for this gem of a comic.

    1. Zee

      We get it dude, you hate Dorothy

    2. Delicious Taffy

      Yeah, the outcome was pretty good, here. Dorothy managed to find a mostly reasonable authority figure, and now nobody has to go to jail.

    3. FacelessDeviant

      Remember though, the second you start disliking a character, except for a few exceptions, the countdown towards their rationale and vindication starts.

      It happened to me. I forget who it was, but I really disliked the character, only to be proven wrong in my judgement a few weeks later.

  57. Smooti

    I think this comic really highlights how, despite her maturity when it comes to studying and academic achievement, Dorothy’s incredibly naive. She’s also relatively sheltered compared to Amber and Sal, who’ve had a lot of trauma in their lives. She doesn’t “get” it cuz she… has never been in the headspace both of them are in, and hopefully will never have to be.

  58. Rycan

    Dorothy, be careful what you wish for…

  59. TlalocW

    Ethan’s face keeps switching between annoyance/anger at Sal to mild surprise at Sal over what she’s saying, at least for me.

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