I mean, tbf Dorothy is wearing an open button down with an undershirt… All she need to do is take the undershirt off and button up the overshirt, but just to the point that she has cleavage showing
i see no possible way this could go wackily sit-com-level-misunderstandingly wrong
–Dave, tfw when you’re using the James Nicoll Event List as a checklist
Jeremiah
That’s what people said about that time with Walky playing games pantless with Amber and that actually did not happen.
anon
Tbf while walky might’ve not been in the best state to need to reach out and chill with an ex, i don’t think amber was necessarily in an ‘unstable’ mood to where she’d have a spur of the moment hookup/fling like ethan’s doing with asher
oh yes. James, even in text, is a trip and a half. (Ditto for his cats.) I shared rec.arts.sf.written with him for many years, and the Events just kept randomly coming, usually severey understated
You have to cross your arms and grab the bottom of the shirt on both of your sides, then keep your hands at your sides while raising them until they’re over your head.
I was gonna suggest that. I mean, me and my friends used to do that to get into football games in college. Or, more accurately, to get non-student friends/family into student sections free.
I feel like even without the Blues Traveler video for reference, it’s still a very common/well known tactic for underage drinkers and/or cheapos to employ.
Both Walky and Joyce got stuck by trying out the sexy arms-crossed shirt-removal. By way of experiment, I just tried it myself, and it definitely requires practice. The way I got stuck on first attempt is similar to the way Joyce got stuck. The crossed arms are really about making the effective length of the arms shorter so that you can just flip the shirt up around your head. If you try uncrossing the arms, you won’t make it that far.
I wonder if it would be easier in a loose or stretchy shirt so you could hook your elbows into the hem? (Yes, I’m too lazy to get out of bed and try it myself.)
I continue to be baffled by the notion that this is the “sexy” way to take off a shirt, because I seriously did not know there was another way until Walky informed us of that.
(Okay, yes, there’s bending over, rucking it up in back, and then putting your arms up over (down under?) your head and wriggling, but that only really works with my mail hauberk.)
((In fact, the sexy way to get your shirt off is the way Joyce seems about to use, which is to have someone else take it off you.))
I had never even considered it, because it seems like an unreasonably obtuse way to go about it, and I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen anyone do it. I tried it after the last comments discussion about this brought it up, and ended up a) pulling my hair, and b) getting it hung up on my shoulders, which are stupidly wide.
The “sexy” method, on the other hand, is just grab hem, arms go up, shirt is off. No contortions and having to clear my hair out of the way to get hold of the back of the collar, no hanging up on my shoulders. (And, bonus, it’s sexy, apparently.) I am confused as to how Joyce and Walky are managing to mess it up. I’ve been doing it without any issue since I was a very small child.
This does, however, raise the question: Who exactly is Joyce taking off her shirt sexy-like for?
David DeLaney
there is also {sfx: disrobing noises} hands under front of shirt on their own sides / pull up sides / left hand over, inside shirt, into right sleeve / right elbow into right sleeve (optional/short sleeve: left hand sticking out of right sleeve) / both hands pull shirt over head (taking care for glasses) / left sleeve off left arm
shorter version: don’t try to take both arms out of sleeves at same time, you FOOLS {/sfx = Galasso}
Oh, yeah, I have used the “pull one arm inside and out the bottom, then repeat with the other arm, then lift collar over head” method, though not in a while because I’m too bulky these days for there to be room inside the shirt. Last time I recall using it was to get a hoodie (much baggier than my usual T-shirts) off while I was driving, because it let me keep a hand on the wheel at all times, and my eyes on the road except for the brief moment when I was actually pulling it off my head. And I could do it while in a car with a low roof and a seatbelt across my chest.
Honestly, it’s partly a gender thing. As someone AFAB, that was just… how you remove a shirt. It was actually something I tried to change in myself when I realized I wasn’t a girl, but at a point I was like… who cares. (And it still can happen that one gets stuck, especially depending on the time of shirt, but even then it’s usually easy enough to navigate.)
A drunken Dorothy is going to impulsively kiss Joyce and it is going to launch Joe/Joyce, Walky/Lucy, Dina/Becky, and/or Dorothy/Whoever into complete disarray. The Chaos Scenario I’ve been foretelling for years is coming to pass. I know I’ve been wrong every previous time I’ve claimed that, but THIS TIME FOR REAL!
But we’re talking about Becky, rest assured she’s capable of creating drama.
Needfuldoer
Besides that, they grew up together. Sometimes that can make the brain categorize someone as a pseudo-sibling and veto that kind of relationship with them even if they’d tick all the boxes if they were strangers.
Adept
Absolutely. It’s called the Westermark effect. That is how the incest prevention in us works. It’s based on growing up together, not genetics.
I mean, arguably it’s an equally low blow for Joyce, too. She’s already had ONE best friend try to kiss her and recontextualize their entire relationship as a result, she really doesn’t need it to happen AGAIN, right after getting her first actual boyfriend since Ethan.
And yes, that’s true REGARDLESS of whether she’s actually attracted to Dorothy or not.
ian livs
Yeah, that’s why I’d hate for it to happen. Either way would be bad, really–if Dorothy suddenly kissed her, for the reasons you outlined. Or if Joyce was okay with it, well, cheating sucks and would especially hit Joe badly.
(Though tbh, it’d be nice to see what Becky did finally get addressed as something nonconsensual and therefore messed up. Like I get that from Becky’s end, she thought she was seeing green flags, but it was still not okay and I feel like, if it had been a guy friend suddenly kissing Joyce, it would’ve been treated that way.)
If I may say so, you’re honestly very good at treating character actions proportionally, without a lot of gender bias, so “what if that had been a guy instead of a girl” p much never actually changes anything if imagined in good faith.
ian livs
lol yeah, that was my bad. it’s been forever since I did a reread, and it was a fleeting thing so I had forgotten about it
if it makes you feel any better, having not seen any prior instances of you making this prediction, that is 100% the Underpinning Line Of Tension that I keep wondering if I’m accurately sensing as this storyline gets into gear.
166 thoughts on “Raid”
NGPZ
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Happy Birthday to you!!!!!
The world is a zoo!!!!
We wish you a great party!!!!
And some sweet
*looks at tonight’s strip*
AAYOOOOAOAOAOAOAOAOOOOO!!!
Decidedly Orthogonal
You did it NGPZ! ???
Hqppy Birthday Willis!
NGPZ
Did wat LOL
Devin
You beat Ana Chronistic for the first post
NGPZ
LOL
still easier than getting a P-rank in Pizza Tower XD
Amós Batista
Me, too, NGPZ, me too…
Ana Chronistic
accidentally called the streaking haha
habby burfday willis
Needfuldoer
Hab a birb day!
HueSatLight
Happy Spirit Journey Formation Anniversary, Other David Willis.
IntangibleMatter
Or you could just ask Sal, it’d probably be easier.
I mean I believe in you but I doubt either of you own any “hot chick” clothing, so…
Ray Radlein
tbf, any clothing (or none at all) is Hot Chick Clothing if it is being worn by Hot Chicks™
Yotomoe
Suspenders and Pants up to your navel with socks with sandals.
Taffy
Add some blunt bangs and thick-rimmed tortoiseshell glasses and you’ve got a deal
Ray Radlein
Pretty sure I saw that getup in a Playboy pictorial back in the ’60s or ’70s and believe me it worked just fine
zee
I mean most girls pants are up to the navel these days (i refuse to wear anything lower) so that sounds pretty easy
Jo_cubstar
I mean, tbf Dorothy is wearing an open button down with an undershirt… All she need to do is take the undershirt off and button up the overshirt, but just to the point that she has cleavage showing
Needfuldoer
She wouldn’t even need to button all the buttons, just a couple strategically chosen ones near the middle.
Thomas
Dorothy probably still has a KFC shirt that Walky got her.
Ana Chronistic
it was Kraft Mac n Cheese
David DeLaney
Sal replies, wearily, “yeah I can help you finish takng that shirt off, you came to the right person this time”
StClair
joyce needs somebody
not just anybody
Axel
y’know she needs someone
Jeff K!
When she was younger, so much younger than today, she never needed anybody’s help in any way.
Schpoonman
There’s no way this possibly ends poorly.
anon
it’s hard to read it as straight when joyce takes her shirt off off in front of dorothy and talks about becoming hot chicks lol
David DeLaney
i see no possible way this could go wackily sit-com-level-misunderstandingly wrong
–Dave, tfw when you’re using the James Nicoll Event List as a checklist
Jeremiah
That’s what people said about that time with Walky playing games pantless with Amber and that actually did not happen.
anon
Tbf while walky might’ve not been in the best state to need to reach out and chill with an ex, i don’t think amber was necessarily in an ‘unstable’ mood to where she’d have a spur of the moment hookup/fling like ethan’s doing with asher
deliverything
Is this the list you’re referring to?
https://dd-b.net/NicollEvents/
David DeLaney
oh yes. James, even in text, is a trip and a half. (Ditto for his cats.) I shared rec.arts.sf.written with him for many years, and the Events just kept randomly coming, usually severey understated
UrsulaDavina
I have tried to take my shirt off the way Joyce did same thing happened. I don’t know how people do it.
Needfuldoer
You have to cross your arms and grab the bottom of the shirt on both of your sides, then keep your hands at your sides while raising them until they’re over your head.
CrazyJ
They can always just lick someone else’s stamp like in the Blues Traveler video “Run-Around”.
jeffepp
Dorothy (not this Dorothy) was definitely the hot chick, and they had to resort to that.
But, none of these kids have ever heard of Blues Traveller, let alone seen the video, or know why it got them blackballed.
Proto
I was gonna suggest that. I mean, me and my friends used to do that to get into football games in college. Or, more accurately, to get non-student friends/family into student sections free.
I feel like even without the Blues Traveler video for reference, it’s still a very common/well known tactic for underage drinkers and/or cheapos to employ.
Coatl
I think they’re really going to need Sal for this.
Dorothy, just help Joyce, she might drown.
Jo_cubstar
Happy birthday, Willis! ??
CrazyJ
Huh, he has the same birthday as me. Happy birthday to all the Fool’s day dodgers out there.
CrazyJ
Wait, if it is on the 3rd then I’m wrong and it’s a day off. I’m on the 2nd.
Amós Batista
It’s Willis birthday, but the gifts are for us (last panel).
Rotunda
Both Walky and Joyce got stuck by trying out the sexy arms-crossed shirt-removal. By way of experiment, I just tried it myself, and it definitely requires practice. The way I got stuck on first attempt is similar to the way Joyce got stuck. The crossed arms are really about making the effective length of the arms shorter so that you can just flip the shirt up around your head. If you try uncrossing the arms, you won’t make it that far.
sdrainbow
I vaguely remember a video showing that certain cuts of shirts are much harder to do the crossed arm shimmy out of
Pinkie
I wonder if it would be easier in a loose or stretchy shirt so you could hook your elbows into the hem? (Yes, I’m too lazy to get out of bed and try it myself.)
BarerMender
I tried it in a T-shirt. It’s just a matter of letting the back slide up at the same rate as the front.
David DeLaney
i should have known the comments would contain at least one semi-expert on ANYTHING Willis manages to put into the strip
–Dave, we are a sundry and diverse lot
John Campbell
I continue to be baffled by the notion that this is the “sexy” way to take off a shirt, because I seriously did not know there was another way until Walky informed us of that.
(Okay, yes, there’s bending over, rucking it up in back, and then putting your arms up over (down under?) your head and wriggling, but that only really works with my mail hauberk.)
((In fact, the sexy way to get your shirt off is the way Joyce seems about to use, which is to have someone else take it off you.))
Taffy
You didn’t know you could grab the back of the collar and pull up?
John Campbell
I had never even considered it, because it seems like an unreasonably obtuse way to go about it, and I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen anyone do it. I tried it after the last comments discussion about this brought it up, and ended up a) pulling my hair, and b) getting it hung up on my shoulders, which are stupidly wide.
The “sexy” method, on the other hand, is just grab hem, arms go up, shirt is off. No contortions and having to clear my hair out of the way to get hold of the back of the collar, no hanging up on my shoulders. (And, bonus, it’s sexy, apparently.) I am confused as to how Joyce and Walky are managing to mess it up. I’ve been doing it without any issue since I was a very small child.
This does, however, raise the question: Who exactly is Joyce taking off her shirt sexy-like for?
David DeLaney
there is also {sfx: disrobing noises} hands under front of shirt on their own sides / pull up sides / left hand over, inside shirt, into right sleeve / right elbow into right sleeve (optional/short sleeve: left hand sticking out of right sleeve) / both hands pull shirt over head (taking care for glasses) / left sleeve off left arm
shorter version: don’t try to take both arms out of sleeves at same time, you FOOLS {/sfx = Galasso}
John Campbell
Oh, yeah, I have used the “pull one arm inside and out the bottom, then repeat with the other arm, then lift collar over head” method, though not in a while because I’m too bulky these days for there to be room inside the shirt. Last time I recall using it was to get a hoodie (much baggier than my usual T-shirts) off while I was driving, because it let me keep a hand on the wheel at all times, and my eyes on the road except for the brief moment when I was actually pulling it off my head. And I could do it while in a car with a low roof and a seatbelt across my chest.
Yumi
Honestly, it’s partly a gender thing. As someone AFAB, that was just… how you remove a shirt. It was actually something I tried to change in myself when I realized I wasn’t a girl, but at a point I was like… who cares. (And it still can happen that one gets stuck, especially depending on the time of shirt, but even then it’s usually easy enough to navigate.)
Imogen
A drunken Dorothy is going to impulsively kiss Joyce and it is going to launch Joe/Joyce, Walky/Lucy, Dina/Becky, and/or Dorothy/Whoever into complete disarray. The Chaos Scenario I’ve been foretelling for years is coming to pass. I know I’ve been wrong every previous time I’ve claimed that, but THIS TIME FOR REAL!
Coatl
That would be a really low blow for Joe and Becky mainly.
ian livs
I mean, tbh they don’t owe Becky anything. Even if Joyce did turn out to like girls, you don’t owe anybody reciprocation just because they like/d you.
Coatl
But we’re talking about Becky, rest assured she’s capable of creating drama.
Needfuldoer
Besides that, they grew up together. Sometimes that can make the brain categorize someone as a pseudo-sibling and veto that kind of relationship with them even if they’d tick all the boxes if they were strangers.
Adept
Absolutely. It’s called the Westermark effect. That is how the incest prevention in us works. It’s based on growing up together, not genetics.
Mturtle7
I mean, arguably it’s an equally low blow for Joyce, too. She’s already had ONE best friend try to kiss her and recontextualize their entire relationship as a result, she really doesn’t need it to happen AGAIN, right after getting her first actual boyfriend since Ethan.
And yes, that’s true REGARDLESS of whether she’s actually attracted to Dorothy or not.
ian livs
Yeah, that’s why I’d hate for it to happen. Either way would be bad, really–if Dorothy suddenly kissed her, for the reasons you outlined. Or if Joyce was okay with it, well, cheating sucks and would especially hit Joe badly.
(Though tbh, it’d be nice to see what Becky did finally get addressed as something nonconsensual and therefore messed up. Like I get that from Becky’s end, she thought she was seeing green flags, but it was still not okay and I feel like, if it had been a guy friend suddenly kissing Joyce, it would’ve been treated that way.)
David M Willis
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/bubbling/
That was addressed like a billion years ago!
Li
If I may say so, you’re honestly very good at treating character actions proportionally, without a lot of gender bias, so “what if that had been a guy instead of a girl” p much never actually changes anything if imagined in good faith.
ian livs
lol yeah, that was my bad. it’s been forever since I did a reread, and it was a fleeting thing so I had forgotten about it
Gojira007
if it makes you feel any better, having not seen any prior instances of you making this prediction, that is 100% the Underpinning Line Of Tension that I keep wondering if I’m accurately sensing as this storyline gets into gear.
David DeLaney
and suddenly the diagram on the greenboard becomes the Love Hexaflexagon
Li
X3 ty for this comment
butting
“Kiss”. Okay, let’s go with that.
(next chapter: “You had sex with Dorothy?! On the hood of a police car?! Twice?!“)
NickG
Nice ‘Buffy’ ref.
HueSatLight
Dorothy/Whoever…
DailyBrad
God, imagine the Joyce of her first semester ever doing this, the one that didn’t even like changing in front of Sarah.
She’s come a long way.
Coatl
She still has her details, but it’s something, I guess.
ian livs