498

Ready to go
Posted on May 6, 2025 by David M Willis
This is the FINAL DAY of the Book 14 Kickstarter! I swear I didn't intend for this to line up with the end of this storyline, it just worked out that way by accident.  i mean why would i plan this, maybe some of you are now upset with me ANYWAY! Today we should be blasting past $60K and unlocking THE DREAMHORSE MAGNET tier! Sneak peeked in the graphic above! yeah that's right it's dorothy and joyce very straightly on a horse, as a magnet PLEDGE!!!? please New storyline starts tomorrow, titled "The Only Exception." As usual, Patreon has the first strip early.

498 thoughts on “Ready to go”

  1. NGPZ

    DAMN YOU WILLIS!!! ;-;

    *plays “Loving You, Losing You” by Phyllis Hyman on hacked muzak*

    1. Longshot97

      Damnation upon thou, noble Willis.

      1. clif

        END Of STORYLINE??. WHERE IS OUR FREAKING GAZEBO?

        DOUBLE DAMN YOU WILLIS.

        1. Yumi

          Skipping to where the date is at after midnight to avoid drawing a gazebo? Unless that’s where they are at midnight, but that seems unlikely… I would be amused by a smashcut to them in a gazebo. Possibly putting their clothes back on.

        2. someone

          The gazebo, alas, was smote by a confused paladin.

        3. Yumi

          Was it Dorothy? I could see her playing a paladin.

      2. eh, whatever

        thee

        I : me
        thou : thee
        he : him
        she : her
        it : it
        we : us
        ye : you
        they : them

        1. Deanatay

          I use thou/thee pronouns, now. Just decided.

        2. Taffy

          Congratulations to thee upon this most auspicious of occasions.

        3. elfroyalty

          the urianger icon really makes this comment, i think.

        4. Nymph

          Thou art valid.

        5. Clif

          So say all we-ins.

        6. Reltzik

          … but thee began thine sentence with the pronoun “I”…

        7. erinacea

          They decided while writing 🙂

        8. Trixie Jubilation

          Aye, self-determining one’s *second person* pronouns is not necessarily any indicator of what first or third person pronouns they use.

    2. GoodbyBallad

      This strip got an actual, out loud “Damn You” from me. I was thiiiiis close to yelling it, too, which would have been awkward.

    3. Amós Batista

      I would cry, if I was Dorothy in this situation

    4. NGPZ

      420 comments!!!! XD

      Time to BLAZE it!!!

      Which flavor will it be this time — pineapple, alpine splash, elderberry or chocolate?

  2. Taffy

    Joyce Brown, certified bye-sexual.

    1. Li

      bye bye bye…

      1. Alanari

        Great, now I’ve that song stuck in my head.

        1. JA

          I hate to say it, but 25+ years later, it’s…rather catchy.

        2. Kep

          Oh, hmm. You might have a point there.
          Might sound crazy, but it ain’t no lie.

        3. DJTsurugi

          Deadpool thinks so… ~<3

        4. AeromechanicalAce

          It’s been stuck in my head ever since I saw Deadpool & Wolverine…

        5. Li

          I meanwhile have listened to the specific cut of Like a Prayer that Madonna released the day the movie hit theaters SO MANY TIMES.

          It had a good soundtrack.

      2. Dot

        Don’t wanna be a fool for you

        1. Imp

          Just another player in your game for two

      3. Taffy

        She hates to see her go, but loves to watch her leave.

      4. AnonGrouch

        Yeah shoulda introduced Joyce to the Backstreet Boys

    2. Bryy

      Taffy I was drinking water.

      1. Taffy

        Good. Stay hydrated, folks.

        1. Clif

          I’m thankful I wasn’t drinking anything at the time.

    3. Steamweed

      Argh. Sheesh. Joyce, what’s with that ‘bye’ in panel 2?? You had eye contact. You had hand-on-cheek contact. Then, a door knock, and you’re immediately down, dressed, and out the door? With just a hardly-spoken ‘bye’??

  3. shadowcell

    and to think, after this it’s just two solid weeks of ninja rick killing spiders

    1. Tahukanuva

      RIP Ninja Rick (Heisei 17 – Heisei 27)

      “Gone from our toystore, but not from our hearts..”

    2. PedanticJerkass

      Two weeks of Lawsome. Except it’s just Bart O’Ryan pointing and laughing, because Mike’s dead.

    3. Risky

      With a name like “The Only Exception”, what else could the next chapter possibly be about?

      1. Nymph

        One spider is allowed to live and becomes Ninja Rick’s sidekick.

    4. Thag Simmons

      it is known

  4. MissKellie

    Comments are gonna erupt tonight, aren’t they…

    1. NGPZ

      you’re probably right, I’ll grab a blast shield and some more popcorn and slurpies

      1. HMRC4EVR

        Borrow Optimus Primal’s riot shield. It should be good at deflecting monkey business.

    2. Queezle

      Yeah, and probably by design. Willis knew what they were doing. Through there maybe people who take it way too far.

      Do we know if Dotty is already seeing a therapist?

      1. BarerMender

        Last we heard, she was seeing a therapist but not talking about anything real. She didn’t want anything on the record when she ran for president.

        1. Li

          On the plus side! That’s probably no longer a concern, so maybe their next session can touch on some real things.

        2. DJTsurugi

          this entire cast needs to be in therapy. ~<3

  5. Icalasari

    I beseech a multitude of damnations upon thee, Willis!

  6. Elf grrl

    Oh. aww… 🙁

  7. Sirksome

    You’ve lost her forever!

  8. Amara

    Screaming, crying, throwing up. Rip to Dorothy who is slowly descending into madness.

  9. Val

    Devastating. Thank you.

  10. Laura

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo………………………………………………………. . . . .

    )-:

  11. Doopyboop

    I can’t believe Dorothy is sending that van to hit them in order to derail the date!!! Dorothy nooooo!!!

    1. Taffy

      The fiend!

      1. Doopyboop

        SHE CAN’T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS

    2. MeghanTheDreamCrusher

      It’s the perfect plan. They’ll never see it coming!

    3. Cholma

      Dorothy is probably the one driving that red car that hit Kestrel at the end of Queen of Wands! *le gasp*

      1. Cholma

        Hmm, just checked the Queen of Wands site, and Kestrel does *not* get hit by a red car there; her moving truck gets a flat tire. Did I imagine that, or did Randy draw the car scene in a Something*Positive crossover before Kestrel joined the cast?

        Faulty memory is faulty. (I mean, it *has* been 20 years since QoW ended!)

        1. Lars

          The red car hit a lot of people in Something*Positive. But without the archives and cast page on the new site I cannot say if Kestrel was among them.

        2. Arioch

          Kestrel was one of them if memory serves. I was an avid reader of both comics and QoW ending was a *thing.*

        3. Carl Muckenhoupt

          Yeah, the car bit was totally a Milholland thing. Queen of Wands was ending with Kestrel moving to where S*P was set, and they had already had a few crossovers, so there was a lot of fan speculation about Kestrel joining the S*P cast permanently, and having Kestrel show up to immediately get hit by a car was Randy’s reaction to that.

          But anyway, we already know who was driving that car.

    4. GholaHalleck

      “My Sexual Awakening Hit Me Like A Truck And Sent Me To An Alternate World, Where My Boy Friend Turned Into A Magical Bicycle.”

      1. KM

        Take my imaginary up vote lol

      2. Regret

        “My Sexual Awakening Hit Me Like A Truck In The Butt And Sent Me To An Alternate World Of Butts, Where My Boy Friend Turned Into A Magical Bicycle With A Butt.”
        By Chuck Tingle.

        1. Risky

          How could he kill off every single character with a butt? I mean I can’t say for certain but I think that’s so unlike Chuck!

      3. Opus the Poet

        GiGi the bicycle of the Witch on a Bicycle is doing cameos if you need her…

      4. Niklarean

        Isekai Kino’s journey…I’d read it.

  12. Dot

    First come does not always mean first served, to turn a phrase

    1. Taffy

      I don’t think Dotty came at all, so we’ll never know for sure.

      1. Dot

        Joyce sure as hell did on the dryer!

        1. Taffy

          Yeah but that was a while ago. The statute of limitations has expired.

        2. Dot

          Listen, we can nitpick or we can let me have my fun “first cum” wordplay

        3. Opus the Poet

          Enjoy your puns, you earned it.

  13. LIGHTWEIGHT BAYBEE

    haha classic willis

    HE CAN’T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS

    1. Clif

      No?

  14. mindbleach

    Dorothy’s fight-or-flight says “tackle Joe,” and four seconds later her whole body bounces off his taut ass. He notices the sound of her hitting the floor.

    1. JA

      “Oh, did you need something?”

      “Oh! Please join us! I have some things I want to discuss with both of you…”

      And thus begins the poly journey.

      1. Shade

        “Hey we noticed you from across the room and we liked your vibe.”

        You can decide who the we is for your own personal amusement.

  15. Nick Piers

    She’s getting away!

    1. clif

      Maybe Sal will show up on a motorcycle.

      1. Carl Muckenhoupt

        She wouldn’t even have to do anything. Joyce would just take one look at Sal on a motorcycle and say “Wait, what am I doing? I like girls!” and that would be the end of Joe.

  16. HueSatLight

    They’re going to Fazoli’s.

    1. Taffy

      Reported for inflammatory language and encouraging terrorism.

      1. NGPZ

        I mean surely Fazoli’s can’t be as bad as Chick-fil-A?

        1. Taffy

          I’ve never had the latter, so I only know it’s a Christian-operated company. Grounds enough to exclude it from society, to be sure, but I can’t judge food I’ve never eaten.

          Fazoli’s could go out of business five minutes from now and improve the average quality of carbohydrates.

        2. ian livs

          This is going to be a hot take, but Fazoli’s >>> the homophobic chicken. Like, food-wise, not just in that (to my knowledge) they’ve never put money toward queer genocide

        3. Taffy

          When’s the last time queer people tried to commit genocide against bigots, anyway? I don’t think it’s happened even once.

        4. Sillygoose

          Does fantasizing about it quite hard count?

          (According to some of said bigots, calling them bigoted already is hate crime, so probably, in their world)

        5. BarerMender

          I ate there, once or twice, years ago. As I recall, their sandwiches don’t have any sauce. According to some internet video, they have good breakfasts.

        6. Shade

          It doesn’t operate here, but I always find it so weird when people posts photos of it. It honestly is some of the saddest looking chicken sandwiches I’ve ever seen. Even a McChicken looks more appetising because at least there’s something on there.

        7. Bittersweet

          They taste fantastic, especially compared to a McChicken because it’s at least whole cuts of meat.

          I finally figured out a good way to make chicken that tastes exactly like it (with zero pickle brine), so I’ve been happy lol. It doesn’t come with sauce because it doesn’t really need it. Mayo is just kind of there to cover subpar chicken or too much bread. I don’t *hate* mayo like my husband, but most places put entirely too much on sandwiches and ruin it, so I prefer to go without.

        8. Bittersweet

          (Happy because while I haven’t eaten there in years, I finally don’t have to miss it. I always call them “Evil Chicken.”)

        9. Shade

          I don’t like mayo, I was talking literally anything besides JUST chicken.

      2. HueSatLight

        derailed a perfectly adequate Faz reference. But that strip gives more context to Dorothy’s feelings, because of what Joyce is going to be saying in the gazebo with Amber’s other brother.

        1. Taffy

          Were we supposed to understand you were referring to that strip? I guess Faz’s name is a play on that carb chain, but what about the rest?

        2. HueSatLight

          I wasn’t referring to that strip. That strip is just the one that shows Faz is in the back of the van with Joyce.

  17. butts

    ah dotty

  18. AK

    Sorry Dorothy, that’s super rough.

  19. Ado

    Wow, this is less disaster than I expected honestly

    But ouch for dotty

    1. Thag Simmons

      oh, there is still time for disaster

      1. StClair

        There’s always a boom tomorrow.

        1. AeromechanicalAce

          Sooner or later. BOOM!

        2. Sharizard

          Hoping this is an intentional Ivanova quote.

        3. StClair

          Look, somebody’s got to have some damn perspective around here.

  20. apricot

    I love Joe’s cute little smile in panel one. Genuinely happy for him right now

  21. Steamweed

    Aaaarrrgghhh
    (*thudding sound of body hitting floor)

  22. Poot-pootington

    Well I am gonna cry now. Thanks.

  23. Giguioto

    So not only we don’t get Joyce × Dorothy kiss, but also we are deprived of Jojo’s schmexy times… We truly been robbed

    1. thejeff

      That’s very weird. Not just their sexy times (which could wind up on Slipshine/other patreon), but the date that was going to lead up to them. Or not lead up to them, depending on how things went.

      Maybe the next storyline picks up after midnight, but still on the date?

      1. Lumino

        I feel like it’s going to be another “Halloween”, where everybody in universe is aware of it, but it’s going to be like three months before the readers get informed.

      2. Li

        I have been quietly paying attention to how much of Joe/Joyce has been kinda off-screen in an unusual way, or with focus shifted instead to Dorothy, and… it’s felt increasingly significant to me?

        It’s not at all unusual that Joe and Joyce’s actual downstairs business happened on the NSFW Patreon, but it IS unusual that we didn’t get to see any of the foreplay at all? With Dorothy/Walky, Amber/Danny, Sal/Jason, Ethan/Mike…… you name it, we got to see the start of things: lingering eye contact, excited kissing, hands starting to slide under clothes.

        With Joe and Joyce, we just saw Joyce close the door for privacy, then smashcut all the way to her not only having completed the deed but having returned to her dorm room with Sarah, where the fact that she hadn’t yet washed her hands was a comedy beat.

        And the “exercise date” — we zeroed in on Dorothy’s reaction instead of spending more time actually seeing Joe and Joyce interact.

        Now this.

        I’ll say again that I think Joe and Joyce are cute together. But the vibes are… interesting, in terms of narrative focus.

        1. Nadamás

          I don’t really get what “This” is exactly and how it relates to all of that.

        2. Li

          “This” being how the lead-up to Joyce’s important date with Joe has been sublimated into Dorothy’s feelings. We barely got to see the Sexiest Sweater Vest, we don’t know whether she went with orange or pink stripes, and the storyline is ending on this note. That’s what “this” is.

        3. thejeff

          That the storyline is ending doesn’t mean we skip to the next morning after everything is done.

          We could be in the late night part of the date tomorrow.

        4. Li

          I mean, I know that, which is why I didn’t say I was sure we were going to skip the date?

          It remains an… interesting mood to end this chapter on and potentially begin tomorrow’s date on, that’s all.

          It’s after midnight now so ofc I know what happens tomorrow and I am avoiding saying it, but for the record this would have been my response either way. I’m just trying to take a step back on my comments here. ?

        5. Li

          Put simply: if I were writing this story, and I shipped Joe/Joyce big time, this just isn’t where my focus would be right now.

        6. Ray

          Legitimately, though. It’s haunting me. Where IS this going, Willis? This is so much anticipation to be building up

        7. Li

          You get me, Ray. ?

    2. OngoingConversation

      Or! The next storyline IS the date! Because a lot of important stuff might be about to happen, so there hopefully won’t be a time-skip. But than again, Willis just pulled this on us, so who knows?

    3. Steamweed

      We riot at dawn?

  24. darkoneko

    ….oh no. oh no. You really need to talk about that with Walky.

    1. John Campbell

      Really, I think all Walky needs is reassurance that Dorothy’s not going to dump him for Joyce. He’s been aware that Dorothy and Joyce are romantically involved longer than they have been. He frames it as a joke, but he frames everything as a joke.

      Joe is a more complicated situation. I’m pretty sure he’d step aside if he thought it was what Joyce wanted, but I don’t think that would actually be good for any of them.

      1. Heavensrun

        Dorothy would *definitely* dump him for Joyce.

        1. John Campbell

          Well, yeah, but I don’t think she has to. Walky’s been content with Joyce being his girlfriend’s girlfriend for quite a while now.

        2. Opus the Poet

          Just remember, years for us is weeks for them. If that.

        3. thejeff

          He was content with it back when they were first dating and they were more solid as a couple. Now, they’ve just got back together and they’ve both changed and are still working out how they work as a pair again – while also falling back into old patterns that don’t quite fit anymore.
          They might not be solid enough for this now.

          I suspect what he might need is reassurance that Dorothy didn’t just get back with him as part of her denial of her bi awakening. And I’m not sure she can honestly give that.

    2. AnonGrouch

      Does she need to go to Walky, absolutely, she needs cuddles and comfort because she is going through a lot and clearly having a trauma response. Does she need to ‘have a heavy discussion about cheating’ nah. MAYBE ‘dude I sent Joyce tit picks as a joke and then joe pointed out how gay that was and I was like fuck my kayak scale is at least two jews in a canoe and I’ve been falling into moose lake ever since help me find pretty girls to stare at so we can oggle together to figure this shit out.’ Anything else is just ‘not giving a clearly stressed person space to deal with shit at a healthy pace’.

  25. Ray Radlein

    Well I guess it’s Elastica for the hacked muzak then

  26. Nono

    End of storyline.

    How will this date end???

    1. MeghanTheDreamCrusher

      Zombie Mike comes back to punch Joe in the face

      1. Clif

        If only.

    2. tim gueguen

      Joe freaks out because he somehow gets it into his head that he’s “defiling Joyce’s purity” or some other nonsense along those lines.

      1. Masumi

        … which causes Joyce to complain that “Dorothy rejected me too, earlier D:” and Joe goes “WHAT now”

      2. Shade

        He might get too into his own head again about it yeah.

        For some reason it reminds me of this soap opera Passions, where the main girl was possessed by a demon and for her evil plan to succeed all she had to do was sleep with her boyfriend, the guy spent multiple episodes finding way to stall having sex.

        But the wild thing is he didn’t know about the demon thing, all his stalling was just him finding excuses to postpone having sex despite apparently wanting to have sex.

    3. 3oranges

      Only subscribers get to find out. 😉

    4. Risky

      Dorothy noped out so Joe and Joyce end up having the threesome with the other girl Joyce has slept with, canonically, Sarah. Soon after it devolves into a fivesome with Moose and Squirrel.

    5. Andy

      It ends with them waking up together in the morning.

  27. Mr. Random

    Van-kun really has everyone lusting after it.

    1. Jess

      don’t mix and match Vancouver and Cancún, it’s uncouth

    2. Jess

      by which I mean I laughed

  28. EpochFlame

    the joyce that got away

  29. Pocky

    THERE IS A LOT TO UNPACK HERE

    1. Florence

      How did Willis fit so much in this suitcase?

      1. JA

        Those vacuum-sealed clothing bags are like bags of holding, tbh.

      2. Thag Simmons

        hydraulic press

        1. ABunchOTrees

          Hallo everyone, welcome to the Hydraulic Press Channel, and today we will be compressing stupidity and senescence.

          …

          Oh look at that! It turned into a comic!

    2. Jeff K!

      Yeah, like that whole moving van!
      Lucky thing that college students are strong and good at unloading things.

  30. Dot

    Will also say that if Dorothy’s mind is conflating Joyce going on a date with her extremely loving boyfriend to when she was kidnapped by a murderer, I would recommend she talk about it with her therapist like, immediately, because that’s not a healthy comparison to be drawing!

    1. ian livs

      I figure it’s mostly just she’s feeling the same amount of desperation to not lose Joyce. (But either way, talking it out with a therapist would be good for her! This is a really messy, complicated situation, so having someone on the outside of it all to talk to would benefit her)

      1. Bryy

        Same and same and same.

      2. Shade

        I’m placing money on her limbic system being a little fuckhead right now.

    2. Proxiehunter

      Her mind is conflating this with the last time she almost lost Joyce/last time someone tried to take Joyce away from her. Which is absolutely something she needs to unpack with a professional but also a different thing than what you said.

    3. Laura

      No, I — I get it. I do.

      Here’s someone, Joyce, who’s been hung up on “virginity” her whole life, who wrapped her identity around it, who called her hoo-ha her “virtue,” and — even though she’s casting off her previous beliefs, she’s going off to have intercourse for the first time, with a fellow who is only recently a reformed lech, and who has already starred in a sex-tape filmed on campus.

      There’s a moment of — ARRRRGGGGHHH!!! — in there.

      Even though it’s what Joyce wants.

      It just kind of breaks Dorothy’s heart to see Joyce trying to shed an aspect of herself that had previously been a core piece of her self-image, even though her “virginity” was an aspect of her former life that Joyce had come to feel was holding her back.

      It’s — knowing that Joyce will see herself differently, the following morning.

      I mean, I know “virginity” isn’t one of those things that people OUGHT to get hung up about, but — I mean, it kind of is. For a lot of people, it is a huge deal.

      Also, the first time is often disappointing and messy, at best, and more likely, uncomfortable and awkward, or nervous and clumsy about contraception and STI prevention, or even painful.

      Even simple things like negotiating levels of comfort with balancing intimacy and infection risk mitigation — those are decisions that it can be very difficult to make in the heat of the moment.

      There are just SO many ways for a sexual experience to go wrong, especially the first several times.

      Dorothy doesn’t know what effect it will have on Joyce. How it will affect Joyce. How Joyce will feel about it later.
      …And whether, sometime in the future, Joyce may even come to regret that particular experience’s having been part of her sexual debut.

      I mean, I know you can NEVER quite mitigate ALL those risks, and part of the joy of sex is that it IS messy and confusing and takes us to unexpected places! Not everything is planned out!

      But still — seeing someone go into a date with that expectation, that it will be their “first time” (so to speak), and not knowing how it will turn out for that person — I could see how it might feel like throwing a friend to the wolves.

      I’m not saying Joe has ANY ill intent. I understand that he genuinely wants to do right by Joyce. I just mean that Dorothy doesn’t 100% know that, for certain.

      1. Davus

        There is also the potential that Dorothy is just jealous.

        1. Laura

          Well, yeah, that too! ;-D

        2. StClair

          Yeah, I’m gonna go with this.

        3. Shade

          I mean, this is clearly more than jealousy. But its probably not, not there.

          This reads to me like her limbic system has decided something is the same and now she gets to experience what it’s like to argue with your own brain as it tries to “protect” you from danger it’s made up. Always a fun experience.

        4. Laura

          So true!

    4. zee

      It’s her PTSD showing and I’d LOVE it if this girl started actually opening up to her therapist. And maybe a psychiatrist. A bongo needs SSRIs

  31. Dana W

    Oh, this is going to be an ugly, ugly mess…………..

  32. Sirksome

    My big takeaway is that when it comes to smooching girls Joyce Brown will always disappoint you. Jennifer however is freely available to be a disaster bisexual. That’s why her stocks are on the rise while Dorothy must stew in unfulfilled yuri misery. Yuh bet on the wrong horse baby. Watch more Star Wars.

    1. Dot

      You better start learning who Kit Fisto is, buddy!

      1. Axel

        Yer in one

        1. Schpoonman

          …But doesn’t the fist usually go in…?

        2. Laura

          In the kitty?

        3. Laura

          (As in “Kit” Fisto.)
          /crude pun

        4. Nymph

          LAURA ?

  33. Derek

    So Dorothy feels like Joyce is in danger to the same degree as (sigh) when they got kidnapped by two lunatics? calm the fuck down Dorothy, it’s just sex. You’d think Dorothy was the one who was raised to think sex is a life altering act that taints your soul and personhood forever

    1. Doopyboop

      I think it’s less the sex and more that she feels she’s already failed to save or help Joyce several times to the point of having PTSD dreams about it. Trauma isn’t always rational.

      1. thakoru

        To be more specific, I read this as Dorothy having the experience of watching Joyce be taken away from her and being unable to do anything about it, and equating it to that other time. It’s not actually about Joyce; it’s about about her feelings of helplessness/inadequacy.

        1. Doopyboop

          I could definitely see that, Dorothy likes her routine and rules and feeling in control. She’s been very much not feeling in control lately and seeing Joyce go off without her definitely touches on those feelings.

        2. Risky

          Did she forget to bring the playlist or is it for later?

        3. Shade

          I think that’s for sex, restaurants and most other dating locations typically provide their own music usually.

        4. Jeff K!

          I don’t think the playlist had anything to do with the date, it’s just a part of Joyce realizing that she has to undo the things that are part of her programming, and having all your music tastes be part of the programming is not conducive to moving forward with your life.

        5. Li

          Yeah, Joyce has been expressing a desire to find new, secular music. Dorothy made a playlist of songs she thought Joyce would like, it has nothing to do with the date.

          That the playlist wound up being very romantic is because of Dorothy’s subconscious.

        6. Shade

          I mean Joyce’s taste probably would be romantic songs too.

    2. Taffy

      That’s one extremely pessimistic reading of those panels, sure.

    3. Sirksome

      I think the idea is less about danger and more that life is always taking Joyce away from her. Dorothy’s aren’t allowed to have Joyce’s. Not in this economy.

      1. Taffy

        “Aw fuck, there goes Joyce away from me, and I have no recourse. This always happens.” It’s practically spelled out on her face.

        1. Sirksome

          Held hostage in a van and well built Jewish boys looking to smash. They’re the same, Taff. They both pose a threat to society. No one is safe.

        2. Taffy

          Obviously the solution to this is to hold Joyce hostage inside of a well-built Jewish boy. Quite how she’s gonna fit in one, I’m not sure yet.

        3. Proxiehunter

          You would barely need to hollow Joe out at all.

        4. Li

          Smashcut to: Han Solo with Luke and in the blizzard on Hoth.

        5. Nymph

          This is very “Shaka when the walls fell” and I dig it.

        6. Li

          I honestly just couldn’t remember the name of the animal (tanto?? my brain suggested — no that’s a sword) and then left an “and” in there, combining for unique phrasing, but you made me laugh, ty. ?

          FTR: Tauntaun, apparently.

        7. Risky

          This may smell bad, kid, but it’ll keep you warm until I get the bomb shelter set up. Ugh. And I thought he smelled bad on the outside!

          No no officers, the well built boy froze to death before I hollowed him out, honest! Yet somehow he still had spare body heat…

        8. zee

          Okay well now if Joyce doesn’t peg Joe in their slip shine I’m rioting

    4. GholaHalleck

      I took it more that Joyce is being “stolen away” and Dottie can’t catch up.

      She’s “failing” to save Joyce (For herself).

      1. Shade

        Right her brain is connecting these two things as the same because brains are buttheads sometimes.

    5. Heavensrun

      You don’t have to actually think that something is the same level of crisis to have it trigger a PTSD flashback to your traumatic experience.

      1. Risky

        Yeah, if it is actually comparable that’s not PTSD that’s survival instincts. PTSD is thinking your blankets are trying to murder you. That’s a specific example from the origin of the term PTSD.

        1. Risky

          Joe is the blanket in this metaphor, and the van or maybe Blayne is the trauma. Or Joe going on a date is the blanket. Or the wife you just punched in the face because for a split second she was vietcong. Joe’s date is the VC assassin who turned out to be your innocent wife. And Joyce’s virginity is wait no I’ve lost it.

        2. Shade

          Yeah, its probably got nothing to do with Joey specifically.

    6. Bryy

      It’s also Joe, who she says she is okay with. But that was, like, two-three days ago tops?

      1. Shade

        Eh I don’t think the fact its Joe factors in at all.

    7. Laura

      I mean, I don’t know though. Is anything “just sex”?

      I’ve been having a sustained nervous breakdown for the past 8 months over something that was “just sex”. I know, I know, I’m sorry, this is not about me, but —

      — the first few times one engages in a particular sexual action, those memories can sometimes stay with you forever.

      I’m sorry, I just — I understand how Joyce and Dorothy might both see this as a big deal.

      1. Laura

        Sorry, sorry, sorry. TMI. I know. Just reported my comment myself. Hopefully Willis will just delete it. Folks don’t need to hear about everybody’s personal drama here in the comments.

        I’m just saying I could understand how Dorothy would feel that sense of dread and fear for someone she loves.

        1. Regret

          It’s fine by me if you want to talk about it. Sometimes it helps to air it out. Your call.

        2. BBCC

          Same. I don’t think the comments will begrudge you for mentioning you’re struggling with a similar experience. If you want the comment deleted, I’ll hit the report button but I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong here. I’ve seen way worse on here.

        3. Li

          +1

          I’ve seen some trauma unloading that felt, you know, less than appropriate, but this is just a mention.

        4. Li

          (Not from you either! No names are springing to mind rn.)

        5. Thing2

          Not TMI. A bad experience which many people have had (me included). Never goes away but gets easier to deal with over time. Yes, of course we could fear this happening to Joyce. I don’t think it will, but can also see Dorothy being anxious. Altho that may not be the forefront of the complex mess that is the matter right now!

        6. Laura

          Thanks folks. ‘ppreciate the supportive kind words. Thank you for being there and not judging. I appreciate that and you.

        7. Shade

          You haven’t done anything to apologise for. You’ve kept the details vague and just used it to explain your reading of the characters.

          Hell I went into more detail about my social anxiety to try and explain to someone why the response seems “over dramatic”. So you have nothing to worry about.

      2. Derek

        it’s none of my business, but if you’ve been sustaining a mental breakdown for 8 months, I am inclined to believe you were assaulted. This is me not knowing any details about what happened, so obviously take this with the same grain of salt as you would listening to any internet stranger; but I think you should seek counseling.

        I am genuinely very sorry that happened to you, no one deserves that.

        1. Laura

          Thank you for being concerned, Derek. I am getting help. I appreciate the advice.

          That’s kind of what I mean, though — an experience isn’t always so easy to define. Especially in retrospect. Sometimes folks’s readings of a particular sexual dynamic and as to the circumstances that might have affected their actions and inactions, sometimes it can change over time. Sometimes even years later.

          Joyce might be totally fine with everything right now, and might still nonetheless reexamine her motivations later and feel differently about it in hindsight.

          (Hur, hur… “Hind” sight. Sorry, my inner Beavis and Butthead are unleashed!)

          I mean, that’s true of ANY experience, really, but a first sexual experience can be especially susceptible to future self-questioning.

    8. Shade

      Derek, its a trauma response. She probably doesn’t actually think these things are comparable.

      I for example due to past trauma have a brain that’s now wired to read social situations as dangerous. I the person, do not think social situations are dangerous, but that doesn’t stop me from having an anxiety response when my brain decides the perfectly lovely conversation is now unacceptably dangerous.

      Fortunately that only really happens in really large crowds these days. But basically, try to understand its not rational and Dorothy probably doesn’t even agree with the comparison, but her limbic system has connected them so they’re connected.

      1. Yumi

        Thanks for bringing this up to people. It’s not that she thinks Joe is evil. It’s that she’s reminded of something (a feeling of losing Joyce) that triggers her.

        I had a period where I regularly had to return to a location I associated with trauma– the location certainly wasn’t at fault for the trauma, it wasn’t even where the trauma actually happened, it just got lodged in my brain as associated with it because it’s where I was when the fog started to lift (and also where I threw up). So there was nothing dangerous about being at this building in the morning, but my brain didn’t believe me, so I went ahead and started getting there early so I could get the panic attack out of the way before other people showed up. Trauma!

        1. Laura

          ?
          Just sending caring. ?

        2. Nymph

          That sounds awful, and it’s rough that you had to go through it. In your honor, I now also have beef with that building.

          Kidding aside, trauma latches onto the WEIRDEST shit sometimes. Not going to share details of my own rn, but suffice to say some panic attacks are followed by frustration at my brain for getting that upset about something so harmless.

        3. Li

          All of the above. Sympathy via light physical contact, I’m bringing it back.

      2. Laura

        Same, same! ?

        Thank you for your kind comment earlier, too.

    9. Nymph

      “You’re traumatized by the multiple awful things that have happened to you in the span of 3-4 months? Calm the fuck down.”

      Excellent work, that’s totally a thing that works.

      1. David M Willis

        https://youtu.be/bcSAQyzPcl0?si=7oZy_YCMy2LN_85X

        1. Laura

          ??? *Facepalm* *SMDH*…

  34. Bobin

    FUCK

  35. Florence

    I love Dorothy holding the frame in two different ways

  36. Lilliam

    Oooooh someone has trauma..

    1. Taffy

      Considering the characters are portrayed as humans, that’s a safe bet.

    2. Proxiehunter

      The entire cast. There is no one in this strip without staggering ammounts of trauma.

      1. Regret

        The only unusual thing about that is that they didn’t get most of their trauma from middle or high school, otherwise it is just being a human in this society.

    3. Arianod

      The Willis giveth, and the Willis taketh away

      1. Arianod

        (wtf? this is not where this comment was supposed to go)

        1. SaraHysaro

          The first half at least rings true for this comment. The Willis giveth trauma to his characters. Taketh away might be a mite trickier to accomplish.

        2. Nymph

          The Willis is presently takething away a Joyce from Dorothy.

        3. Arianod

          Dumbing of Age Book 14: The Takething Away

  37. DailyBrad

    We have seen her have PTSD nightmares, so I mean, this isn’t shocking. That said, I guess that while she is trying to recontextualize her view of Joe, she still sees him as dangerous for Joyce, or maybe it’s Joyce’s eagerness she sees as potentially dangerous? Or maybe it’s just not having Joyce in her care in general that concerns her.

    In any case, this isn’t good for her.

    1. GholaHalleck

      “*Her* Joyce is being stolen away again!” a musical.

    2. Shade

      I actually don’t think it has anything to do with Joe personally.

      Her brain is just connecting it to a trauma where she almost lost Joyce.

    3. TGS

      I don’t think the van flashback is that deep a parallel. Two times that Dotty felt like she was going to lose Joyce. Dotty knows that Joe is not in the same league as an actual kidnapper, but it can still trigger similar feelings for her without viewing Joe as a toedad level threat.

  38. IntangibleMatter

    “End of storyline” oh fuck you Willis, you torture us almost as much as your characters.

  39. JA

    That’s…well that’s certainly a flashback to have.

    Is this just Dorothy’s way of realizing she lost her chance?

    1. Taffy

      It’s possible.

    2. Amós Batista

      and there’s no Amazi-girl this time

      1. Nymph

        There is, though. She’s just next door and Dotty should go to her.

    3. HueSatLight

      My take:
      Dorothy’s view of herself has been that she’s typically the best equipped to be in control, that she’s the most responsible. And Joyce has generally affirmed that. Joyce has even used that to get Dorothy to spend time with her. Maybe subconsciously, maybe consciously, maybe both. It’s even how she got Dorothy to go to a bar with her. To Dorothy, Joyce is like her baby bird.
      But Dorothy has run into reality several times. She’s not in control of situations she thinks she is, traumatic things happen (Ryan, kidnappingx2), and she blames herself. Not only is Joyce figuratively helpless like a baby bird, she’s a reminder of Dorothy’s helplessness. From her horse nightmare, dream Joyce replaces Dorothy in a traumatic memory, of Dorothy watching Amber save her by knifing Ryan. And then the dream ends with Ross being brained, which Dorothy also imagines she is responsible for.

      Dorothy’s romantic feelings for Joyce are tied up with feelings of protectiveness, failure, and trauma. So while she thinks she lost her chance, she’s reflexively also thinking that she’s lost control and can’t protect Joyce, that she’s failing and going to fail, that it’s traumatic. And merely feeling like you’ve lost your chance already sucks without a trauma response.

      And to make a too long post even longer and less relevant to today’s strip, more take:
      Dorothy’s attraction to AG is based on similar things, but reversed. In Dorothy’s mind, AG is the one who comes to the rescue, to clean up her messes. She’s “everything Dorothy wishes she could be”. She even showed up to escort Dorothy and Joyce home when they were drunk.

  40. Folus

    And everyone bottled everything up and never spoke of this moment again.

  41. Lee

    DAMN YOU WILLISSSSSSS

  42. AC

    I wanted lesbian drama but not like this…not like this….

    1. NGPZ

      what’s that one earthling saying?

      “a finger closes on the monkey paw” or somethin?

      1. Nymph

        Wowwww, stop appropriating Earthling culture.

  43. thakoru

    Quick, Amber, throw a grappling hook at Joe!

  44. staszu13

    Please tell me this doesn’t end with Dorothy possessed by Head Alien and crashing Joe and Joyce’s wedding

    1. Jeff K!

      Isn’t fandom a kind of possession? You let characters enter your head and live there, the examples and morals of their stories manipulating your thoughts and actions…

      So you might say she’s already possessed by Head Alien!

  45. SaraHysaro

    That quiet goodbye from Joyce is so sad. 🙁

    1. Rov

      Yes, she had such an uninhibited relationship with Dorothy because she was denying they’re acting romantic. Dorothy’s reaction means that their relationship must change to either be romantic, or more inhibited.

    2. Masumi

      Yeah, that one really stung.

    3. Steamweed

      Joyce, how could you? You were face-to-face almost; you had a hand on her face. Then a door knock, and you instantly jumped away, gave a very small and insufficient ‘bye’ and then left. Just one word of ‘bye’? Girl……

  46. Aura

    … end of storyline? END OF STORYLINE???? Damn you Williiiiiiiisssss!!!!!

    1. Aura

      Also re: the Dorothy flashbacks my take is that they’re triggered by her fear of losing Joyce TT

  47. RassilonTDavros

    “End of storyline”? Oh. Oh shit.

    We’re about to have a direct (apart from possibly a flashback sequence) continuation of a scene, directly segueing from one storyline to the next. Correct me if I’m forgetting something, but the last time this happened, some serious shit went down.

  48. Straximus

    Oh my.

  49. Joe Moose

    Oh bother.

    [backs into hedge and vanishes]

  50. Nerrin

    Speculation: Joe is in on it.

    He’s been a safe harbor for all of Joyce’s feelings, good and bad, for months now. And Joyce being so very Joyce, this all feels a little… out of character? for her. Usually she’s very concerned about possibly hurting others, and she’s not so foolish as to think making a move on Dorothy wouldn’t hurt Joe. No, not even if Jennifer says something about friends being able to make out. So I can’t help but think that they must have already talked about this, that she admitted some feelings for Dorothy to him either before or after the cleavage pictures happened. And maybe he’s not jealous about it.

    So this may sound a little zany-sitcom-scheme-y, but first – look at what we’re reading, that happens. Second, ever been a friend’s “backup” when they went on a date they weren’t sure was going to go well, so you could call them at some point to see if they needed an out? While they’re having an actual date with plans to hanky-panky later, Joe and Joyce could also have tried to provoke a reaction out of Dorothy with this and Joe is now playing a similar backup role to Joyce in case her moment with Dorothy failed. Maybe greet him at the door if the moment fails, call for him to come in if things worked. Simple signal that doesn’t look like one and gives Joyce an excuse to move away and pretend nothing just happened.

    1. Queezle

      But wouldn’t that still be hurtful to Dorothy? Talking things through with Joe but not her would still be sort of disrespectful to Dorothy, would it not?

    2. Masumi

      In the given situation, explaining things to Dorothy after the ‘fail’, the way it played out, would’ve been the much better strategy than bolting, though…

    3. thejeff

      Usually when you’ve got a friend to get you out of a date if it goes badly, you don’t tell the person you’re going on the date with that you’re really excited about your date with the friend where you’re definitely going to have sex.

      Greeting Joe at the door and sending him away if things were going well with Dorothy would still bring everything to a screeching halt. And in the end in this version of events, things only failed with Dorothy because she didn’t know it wasn’t cheating. (Well, not cheating for Joyce with Joe at least. Walky would still have been an issue.)
      The plan would have had to have been to get Dorothy to cheat and then the surprise reveal that it wasn’t cheating at all. But Dorothy still would have had to choose to cheat.

  51. Charles Phipps

    A reminder that Dorothy REALLY HATES Joe.

    1. Taffy

      She’s definitely gonna kill him.

      1. MeghanTheDreamCrusher

        With kindness?

        1. Taffy

          I was thinking some kind of hand-held bladed weapon. Something on the smallish side and easily concealed, but still big enough to do some real damage. Possibly foldable, so it can be unfolded in a dramatic manner. Whatever that item would be called, I think that’s what Dorothy will use to commit probable murder with Joe as the victim.

        2. BBCC

          Her phone? 😛

        3. Wereg

          Dorothy’s gonna bring the ol’ Razr back.

    2. NGPZ

      I mean you’re not wrong?

      but what’s happening here is honestly more reflective of how much she loves and cares about Joyce

    3. HueSatLight

      She really hates Joe because he’s with Joyce. During fall semester she was on fairly amicable terms with him.

      1. Thag Simmons

        That was in no small part because she didn’t really have to interact with him all that much

      2. thejeff

        Which is partly her jealousy and partly that her opinion of Joe was low, but he wasn’t a direct threat to someone she cared about fall semester.

        And she’s done a remarkable job of accepting him and Joyce, despite her jealousy and dislike of Joe. Not at first, but she’s come around.

    4. Shade

      I actually don’t think Joe factors into this at all. Who it is is completely unimportant. I also don’t think she hates Joe at this point. Jealousy likely, but I think she’s accepted his change as genuine by this point. Maybe they’ll never be close friends, but you don’t have to hate someone for that.

      1. HueSatLight

        ya, she was as spiteful towards Jennifer.

  52. Lingo

    “STOP! DON’T FUCK!”

  53. Freezer

    I can’t tell anyone (real or fictional) how to feel or what their heart should do, but isn’t this a bit overdramatic?

    I feel the worst for Walky here. He’s collateral emotional damage.

    1. Bittersweet

      Yeaaah. I don’t think Dorothy cares about Walky like at all. She seems to want want Joyce, with Walky it kind of seems like she just doesn’t want to be alone. I think that’s why I want him to crash out about this more than I want him to be in a polycule. Some dudes are happy to be sidelined in a polycule and basically ignored (my mom’s first husband in the polycule is this, he just likes being married and seeing her a couple times a month), but I just kind of want better for Walky since he seems to need *more* than that?

      It’s not that he couldn’t get equal or adequate attention, it’s that I just really doubt Dorothy and Joyce would. And he just doesn’t seem so into Dorothy this time around, which is healthier, but it’s definitely in a “the spark is gone” sort of way.

      1. Bittersweet

        (To clarify my wording, it’s not that being in a polycule guarantees someone will be sidelined, it’s just that my mom’s husband #1 prefers that arrangement. My mom’s husband #2 absolutely would not, so she splits her time mainly between him and her boyfriends.)

      2. Nymph

        I don’t agree with this being the likely outcome (I think Dorothy cares about Walky a great deal, loves him even) but I do think it’s a reasonable possible outcome and that would be such a shame for everyone involved. Walky levels out and balances Dorothy in a way Joyce absolutely does not, and I think losing his part of the equation would make a less stable polycule overall.

    2. Shade

      What you have to understand is this isn’t her rational brain operating and making her feel this way.

      When your limbic system decides something is like this even if its not, you’re kinda just along for the ride no matter how much you might realise it’s silly.

      To use my own experiences, due to past trauma my brain is wired to read social situations as dangerous, especially with people I don’t know. Rationally I know I’m not in danger, but since the body has decided otherwise and the limbic system is working its magic its not any different emotionally than if I actually was.

      It’s dramatic and extra, but that’s how it works. Its going to feel real because to your body it is, even if it isn’t.

      1. Sillygoose

        I second that. I got triggered by something quite innocuous a little while ago, and it took half an hour with my therapist before I got it: it just happened to have the same esthetics as the music video to a song that was playing in the background not even when the thing happened but when I first managed to open up about the thing.
        So yeah, tldr: trauma isn’t rational, fancy that

  54. Heavensrun

    Willis, you *monster*.

  55. Leslie

    I’ve never been filled with so much dread and concern about a Dumbing Of Age plotline. Yikes.

  56. Xccj

    Aw, does that mean we don’t get to see their date. (Probably only in flashbacks if it goes terrible. Maybe she punches him, for nostalgia?)

    Also, seems like Walky and Joe could be open to a poly relationship if all involved parties had an honest discussion about things. Obviously, that’s not going to happen because that would resolve the drama too quickly… and also because this isn’t Smarting of Age. 🙂

    1. adrianghc

      Greetings from a former fellow BZPower member! The Internet is a small place sometimes. 🙂

  57. Theozilla

    I hope this is largely just meant to be indicative of the degree of Dorothy’s own feelings of helplessness and loss, and not that she actually is emotionally equating Joe with Becky’s father in terms of danger and threat.

    1. Leon

      Yeah, it’s not a conscious comparison but trauma coming to forefront of her brain like when she looked at that empty hanger in Joyce’s closet.

    2. Shade

      I’m willing to bet it has nothing to do with Joe at all.

      Her brain is just connecting this to another time Joyce was taken away because brains be jerks sometimes. Like rationally she would know this is nothing like that, but when the limbic system wants to mess you up, you kinda just along for the ride.

      1. Schpoonman

        Joyce wasn’t “taken away” this time. She left Dorothy. Dorothy’s is fucked up right now.

        1. Shade

          “Like rationally she would know this is nothing like that”

          She likely KNOWS that. The limbic system isn’t something you can reason with if it disagrees with you though.

  58. Kyulen

    I can relate to being upset that someone you’re attracted to is already dating someone else. But somehow I don’t think Joyce willingly going on her date with Joe where she’ll probably have sex with him is even remotely close to the same as her being kidnapped by Blaine.

    1. Rectilinear Propagation

      She’s remembering how it felt to lose her.

      1. Tessea

        And how long she’s actually felt this way about Joyce.

        No, it’s not a comparable situation, but both are driving a massive sense of loss and regret.

    2. DashWallkick

      It’s Dorothy Logic. She was scared shitless that Joyce might have been taken from her forever. Dorothy has a hard time letting things go. Dorothy doesn’t know what she actually wants out of life anymore. She also almost initiated a kiss but backed out due to her strict moral compass.

      To her gut, all this looks like is yet another moment when Joyce, who she loves more than anything, exits her life.

      Puts her Yale refusal in a new light, huh?

      1. Shade

        It’s not even Dorothy logic, in fact rationally she’s probably aware this isn’t the same thing. But when your limbic system wants to evoke a trauma response to something even if its not even the same situation, by golly it’s going to do it.

        1. DashWallkick

          It’s not a logic per se, but it’s the under girding id level response to everything we’ve seen from Dorothy. She’s scared of letting things go.

      2. Nymph

        I mean, that was already the light I saw the Yale refusal in if I’m being honest.

        1. Li

          https://www.dumbingofage.com/crowded/

          ‘Tis a BIG long comic but that is the light Dorothy basically told us to see it in.

        2. Li

          (Aka +1 but also I have receipts)

        3. Leon

          I’ve been wondering for awhile when Joyce is going to figure it out herself or already suspects it. Dorothy didn’t exactly reveal she had gotten the actual acceptance letter when she told Joyce about it, though.

  59. Mewzard

    The next storyline being named after the lyrics of the song that played as Joyce and Dorothy looked into each other’s eyes…it’s gonna be a fun few months.

    1. Bryy

      Next is the protest, right? So yeah it’s gonna be painful.

  60. BBCC

    Oh, right, Dorothy’s horrible traumatized.

    Well, that’ll be a surprise tool that helps us later, I’m sure!

    1. Rectilinear Propagation

      I’m becoming concerned about what Toodles has been carrying around.

      1. Li

        Re-read “This Was Halloween”, in retrospect Dorothy was concerningly flat-affect for most of that storyline, like maaaaaybe dissociating a little bit from all the trauma.

  61. Kep

    In poking through the archives, I found this old strip. When talking with Joyce about Jacob, Dorothy says friendship shouldn’t be seen as any lesser if romance isn’t an option, and it will be interesting to see how that sentiment holds up now. Bonus: Joyce is wearing this same sweater vest.

    https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/qualities/

    1. Grimeyville

      That is a bonus.

      Also—I can’t help but expect a remix of this panel in our future.

      https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/harassing/

    2. HueSatLight

      I don’t think it will hold up at all. It’s an example of Dorothy “wisdom” that looked good when she read it, but doesn’t really help. The strip before it is pretty interesting too.

      1. Li

        … I’ll reluctantly bite. What’s bad about either “If someone’s a good match romantically, you should also be compatible friends” or “Is a guy who’s so willing to cheat on his girlfriend for you really a partner you want to have?”

        Like. I would have thought both of those were pretty agreed-upon statements of fact.

        It also feels like important context that Joyce was going full Mean Girls against Raidah at this point…

        Like, is the criticism here that Dorothy’s advice didn’t completely stop Joyce’s behavior? Because that… seems like it’s on Joyce, actually, who chose to ignore it, rather than a problem with the advice itself.

        1. Li

          Also, fff, these are excellent strips to link the next time someone tries to suggest Joyce is a robot whose programming forces her to do everything Dorothy tells her to.

        2. Bittersweet

          I’d been harsh on Dorothy at points of this storyline, but there’s a weird vibe that’s been popping up that when Joyce does bad it’s also Dorothy’s fault, and it’s one of the reasons I lowkey don’t like Joyce/Dorothy (because it has to do with their cultivated dynamic towards each other that maybe is starting to change, but definitely is still present in some degree. Not gonna write an essay here.)

          Ftr, I’ve been confused/miffed at Joyce the past couple days, Dorothy is fighting for her life here.

        3. Li

          That’s fair, I too have been soured on characters and dynamics due to fandom’s reaction to them. It sucks in the cases where I feel like I’d probably like the character/ship if not for the people who like/hate it so much.

          Leon asked me what I thought was going through Joyce’s head here so I wrote my longest comment probably ever going into it, but TL;DR I’m not actually mad at her either because I think she got swept away by a lot of feelings and thoughts coming to a head at once and wasn’t thinking of Joe in the moment where she reached for Dorothy, or Dorothy in the moment where she bolted out of bed at the knock. Not because she doesn’t care about either of them but because Feelings and Too Many Thoughts and Hormones (including adrenaline)…

          I commented that I also think she (generally) doesn’t conceptualize herself as capable of hurting Joe, and this comic further cements that feeling for me bc I think here she is similarly failing to conceptualize herself as capable of hurting Dorothy. She’s a lil worried with that squiggly “bye” word balloon, but not so very deep down Joyce sees herself as this goofy loser that no one so handsome/kind/smart/beautiful could really want for a girlfriend that badly…! Surely they’re both gonna realize they could do WAY better soon.

        4. Li

          (You know, the same way Jacob did!)

        5. thejeff

          It’s bad advice in the sense that it’s a platitude. It’s not wrong, but it’s not actually helpful, since it doesn’t come with any way to help you turn your emotions off.
          At least the first. The cheating one is better.

        6. Nymph

          There isn’t a way to turn your emotions off without unhealthily stuffing them down into the Dark Place ™. Those pieces of advice are perfectly helpful if you’re willing to accept that your emotions don’t necessarily have to push you into bad situations because there are alternative ways to accomplish (in this case) the need to be close to someone.

          Barring physical restraint, not sure what else she could have done.

        7. Li

          +1

          Also they’re both 18. Dorothy is telling Joyce things her parents definitely told her when she was younger, but which Joyce wasn’t told, due to her parents’ attitude towards relationships during her childhood being “oh, that’s not a thing she’ll do, she’s going to meet one (1) boy we approve of and marry him”.

          Part of what makes platitudes annoying is that you’ve heard them a million times and you don’t need to be told for the millionth-and-one time. I think it’s different coming from one teenager who’s never had to give advice on the situation before, to another teenager who’s never been given advice on the situation before.

        8. HueSatLight

          I am not interested in explaining anything to you. In my experience, I waste my time and you make up some other reason and call me a bigot or stupid child

        9. Li

          ……. I went back like a month, trying to figure out where this response came from, and I found you being annoyed on April 16th and then telling me to “give it a rest” and “stop making shit up about other people” on April 19th, in a response I don’t remember seeing.

          I’ll leave you alone, because I will avoid responding to anyone who doesn’t wanna interact with me for any reason, but for the record, both of those comments seem to involve you being annoyed with me for talking about very general trends in the comments, in broad ways, and seemingly assuming I was talking specifically about you both times. I wasn’t, and in fact in neither case had I ever been responding to you when you started talking to me.

          I would submit that you have misunderstood me. That’s certainly your right. I’ll avoid responding to any of your comments or even comment threads in the future.

    3. Heavensrun

      That could also be seen (especially now) as Dorothy, who considers herself “friend”, begging to not be considered lesser than Jacob, who she considers a romantic interest for Joyce.

      1. Kep

        Yeah, that’s some of the recontextualizing I was considering.

        At the very least, it puts her friendship with Joyce on an equal footing with Joyce’s romantic interests, even if Dorothy isn’t at a point of recognizing any romantic feelings for Joyce yet, suggesting it’s a very strong and intimate kind of friendship.

    4. Freezer

      Easy to say when you’re a third party in the equation.

    5. OBBWG

      Following that thread, I stumbled onto this strip:

      https://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/03-men-are-from-beck-women-are-from-clark/destiny

      Willis really plays the long game.

  62. Agentomega

    *mentally screaming into a pillow*

    Damn you, Willis Q_Q

  63. Li

    Next storyline: The Only Exception, followed by Not-So-Smooth Criminals, followed by I’m the Problem, It’s Me, followed by Fools’ Spring.

    ????

    Well, those signs can’t stop me, because I can’t read! So I am gonna keep believing absolutely no bad decisions of any kind will be made for the next four chapters.

    (It’s a RARR Mood I’m In sounds like a Dina-centric storyline, but more lighthearted, so perhaps by then we’ll have recovered from the emotional devastation! Only time will tell.)

    More seriously: amazing work, Willis, and I can’t wait for tomorrow. ?

    1. Li

      For today’s lucky 10,000.

      …and the relevant xckd for that one.

  64. Li

    Also c’mon folks, if Willis wanted you to think Dorothy was equating Joe with Blaine, wouldn’t one of those panels be red?

    (Now if tomorrow’s chapter turns out to be five red panels followed by Dorothy donning Joker makeup, I’m gonna be a little bit embarrassed, but.)

    1. BorkBorkBork

      Maybe not Blaine… but Toedad, sure.

      And not him exactly, but what he represented to Dorothy in that moment.

      I mean, think back to the horse dream.

      Ross was a large, muscular man who was twisted inside. That vileness led him to hurt and manipulate others, seeing them as means to an end. At the time of the kidnapping, though, he was soft spoken, apologetic, helpful, even. Him letting Amber go was what led to their escape.

      Yet those were simply *things that he did.* He was still a monster through and through.

      And he almost had Joyce taken away from her forever.

      In that dream, it ended with a bullet in Ross’ forehead, with him screaming in agony.

      … is this a stretch? Maybe. But maybe not. There’s enough similarities here though that I believe Ross and the van leaving are tied together in the same generalized feeling here. And do I think that Dorothy consciously equates these two people? Of course not.

      But I do believe that in Dorothy’s mind, Joe is only putting up a front, and that Joyce being hurt is an inevitability.

      I also believe that she might do something sudden, rash, and potentially very stupid.

      And I hope – really, REALLY hope – that this doesn’t suddenly become a “nice guy” scenario. (Nice girl?) You know. “Why are you with that jerk?! He doesn’t care about you the way *I* care about you. You shouldn’t be with him; you should be with me!” Because if Dorothy is trying to appeal to Joyce, the worst thing that she can do is tear Joe down by doing it.

      Because he is trying. My god the man is trying so hard, being so considerate, so caring, trying to show her that she matters to him and is special to him. He literally went from beefcake to cinnamon roll just for her right here. And only Joyce knows the half of it.

      1. Li

        Ehhhhhhh.

        I think Dorothy doesn’t feel that way about Joe anymore. And she definitely didn’t say any of those Nice Girl things just now when given every opportunity to do so.

        Like, you’re welcome to your interpretation, but I stand by my “no red panels” point. ?

        1. thejeff

          I suspect Dorothy’s feelings about Joe are complicated. Her rational side has seen his changes and that he does really care about Joyce and that’s mostly in charge, but she’s also got years of built up distrust in there that can still lead to her subconscious seeing Joe as dangerous and helping that equation of “bad man taking Joyce away”.

        2. Li

          Complicated? Sure! 100% she feels conflicted about him.

          But if Dorothy actually saw Joe as being even remotely comparable to Blaine or Toedad (which is the specific suggestion BorkBorkBork made above)?

          If she was really a “Nice Girl” (same)?

          She probably wouldn’t have told Joyce “I wouldn’t worry about it, Joe knows how to do all that stuff” or “Look. Joe likes you so very much, and he knows you, and he wants to be with you. It’ll be fine.”

          Heck, she recently had the opportunity of a lifetime to tell Joyce’s big sister that Joe was bad news, and even though that was back when Dorothy was still totally in denial about her feelings for Joyce? “Joe? Oh, he — he makes Joyce very happy. […] She brings out the best in him.”

          The follow-ups (“she brings out the best in everyone” and “[no, he’s not another closeted gay dude,] fortunately for men they’re outside his purview” are more negative, but you can tell that rationally she still knew better, even then, and wasn’t willing to torpedo Jocelyne’s relationship with Joe.

          Like, c’mon, Dorothy has had a lot of opportunities here to actually be a Nice Girl about this and sabotage Joyce’s relationship with Joe, but she has steadfastly refused, because despite their long shared history of enmity, Dorothy’s rational brain still recognizes that Joe isn’t actually going to hurt Joyce.

          We’d have to dial all the way back to real-world years ago when Dorothy told Joe to “find different prey” (far from her best moment, December 2022) to get to “Dorothy sees Joe as comparable to Blaine/Toedad”.

        3. BorkBorkBork

          I mean, she was just literally heartlessly cruel to him over and over and over, earlier that day, and he didn’t deserve it one bit. And it was because she was reading into what he was saying and ASSUMING that he was making dumb, juvenile jokes about her sexuality when all evidence at that moment was that he was trying to be caring and supportive. And to top it off, at the end, when she realizes her sexuality, she says that “I’m no better than you.”

          … She might, intellectually, “know” that Joe is better, but I do not believe one bit that she “feels” that he is better. Feelings don’t change that quickly. Subconsciously, he represents something dangerous to women, and let’s be honest here – he’s earned that reputation over years, and has spent only months trying to change it, and it’s been only weeks that Dorothy has been aware of it.

          I know it’s been years for us, but it’s only been like a week or so since Dorothy told Joe, with as much ferocity as possible, to “find different prey.”

          Logically, between all of us – there’s no reason at all why any of us should believe that Joe will change, if he was just someone that you knew IRL. The only reason that we all believe his change is genuine is because Willis lets us see behind the curtain and see him as a POV character sometimes.

        4. Li

          It’s so funny bc I just referenced all the same stuff but I see it completely differently from you.

          Anyway, yes, she said those things while in a panicky emotional tailspin, but obviously she knows they’re not true, because as I linked above, when given actual golden opportunities to sabotage this, she has done the opposite at every turn.

          Dorothy wouldn’t have told Joyce that Joe’s gonna treat her right and that he really cares about her if she saw him as comparable to Toedad/Blaine/whatever, full stop.

          This mental tangent is not about Joe, it’s about Dorothy’s PTSD, which Willis highlighted for us with the hangers like six strips ago max.

        5. BorkBorkBork

          PTSD connects unrelated things and links them together, and makes people behave in irrational ways.

          You say Dorothy wouldn’t have told Joyce that Joe’s gonna treat her right and cares about her if she saw him as comparable to Blaine. Which I agree with, in theory. Then again, a soldier returning from war can say to his family that they are all perfectly safe to go watch fireworks at the fourth of July and that no one is going to kill them, and he will *mean* that, but his actions later on might not reflect that. Dorothy can absolutely say these things to Joyce, but still be very afraid that they are not true, as long as she “knows” they are irrational fears.

          Dorothy is capable of an incredible amount of self-deception and self-denial. She has to be, to have been such an incredible student for so long, shutting out most fun things that her peers were doing, to work towards an almost unachievable goal of “being the President” while not really considering what would come with the job. She also is a logical, reasonable, and intellectual person to an intense degree, which has the side effect of often making her push aside feelings and intuitions.

          By this I mean: Dorothy WILL say and act on the thing she intellectually KNOWS to be true, while consciously vehemently denying the things she FEELS to be true, which causes her to sometimes be oblivious to the things she INTUITS to be true.

          For example: Dorothy intellectually knows that she’s heterosexual, because she has never felt attracted to any woman in her life, feels plenty attracted to men, and spent some probably-traumatic time in her teens being bullied by people like Joe and being told that she’s a lesbian. So she vehemently denies that whatever feelings that she has for Joyce are anything but close, platonic love with a dear friend who has defended her and stood by her, which causes her to be completely oblivious to her inner self that tells her that Joyce is smoking hot.

          (I have some familiarity with this one. I was a nerd in the 90s who liked Final Fantasy and farming sims and didn’t like sports. You do the math.)

          In this case: Dorothy KNOWS that Joe has been the absolute model of someone who is kind, caring, and wants the best for Joyce, and that he’s completely aware of where he’s failed in the past and wants to be a better person. So she vehemently denies the feelings that she has that he is, under the surface, just a scumball who is eventually going to go on to the next conquest. That causes her to ignore that deep down intuition, that fear of what he *could* do, what he has the power to do, and which the only thing that is stopping him is his own restraint.

          … it’s kind of like, if Barney the Dinosaur was real, and you had every inclination to believe that he was friendly, and loveable, and wanted nothing more than to sing and play with children. And so because of that, you ignored the fact that he had, in the past, been a carnivore up until he went vegan three months ago, and you ignored the fact that you had known a Tyrannosaurus who tried to kill and eat you and your friends a few months ago, and ignored the fact that there are plenty of Tyrannosauruses who kill and eat plenty of children every day on the news, because THIS one seems fine, and has gone vegan because he feels bad about it, and your child really really wants to play with him. Misandry. God, I wrote all that and realized at the end I was just talking about unconscious prejudices.

        6. AnonGrouch

          “Dorothy is capable of an incredible amount of self deception”

          Can we both agree that this would be phrased better as ‘Dorothy has tried an incredible amount of self deception’? Because the entire point of the storyline getting to THIS point is because she ISN’T capable of it. She ‘tries’ but always fails. Irt being president, wanting to go to yale, not being into walky, not being bi, not being into joyce, etc, all kind of just ‘explode in her face upon even a fraction of her self introspection’ because well she IS intelligent and DOES have a strong moral compass to not want to self deceive. It’s literally the entire fulcrum of her route towards instability we’ve seen so far.

        7. Li

          Okay, first I just wanna say one thing hopefully quickly — it doesn’t detract from your overall point, and the comic is big and long and there’s a lot of it so it’s easy to just jumble events a tiny bit — but Toedad AKA Ross actually didn’t take Joyce away. He was primarily interested in kidnapping Becky, and only helped Blaine take the others as part of a larger plan of Blaine’s. Blaine is the guy who was driving the van that stole Joyce.

          Also it’s actually not a bullet hole, I don’t think — I think it’s a ball-peen hammer hole, and that Ross’s dead face represents something different for Dorothy, a different failure.

          (She pitted the two of them against each other, hoping to distract them while everyone else got free, but Blaine’s anger was explosive and violent, and he attacked Ross with a ball-peen hammer while Dorothy watched, mumbling that her plan was working a little too well.) (Later, this attack would prove fatal, and Ross would succumb to his injuries.)

          So yeah, again, doesn’t detract from your larger point, but I was rereading your first comment and noticed it!

        8. BorkBorkBork

          I know who is who (though I do think that I said Blaine at least once when I meant Ross). I’ve been here since Shortpacked.

          I believe it’s Ross in her dreams instead of Blaine because Blaine doesn’t really represent much of anything to Dorothy. She’s not very close to Amber, doesn’t really know the history very well, and to Blaine, the kidnappings were just a means to an end that had nothing to do with Joyce.

          Ross, on the other hand, represents control, dominance, subjugation. He is an active threat for Becky from the beginning and makes multiple attempts to abduct her. He’s from Joyce’s church and spouts Joyce’s old beliefs. He also knows Joyce personally and Joyce sees him as “a dad” and not “an adult”.

          The fact that Blaine was the “mastermind” of the kidnapping and Ross was a lackey doesn’t really matter when it comes to symbolism. Ross was the one who was watching them tied up. Ross was the one they were arguing with and wouldn’t see reason. Blaine was the enemy that the cops captured; Ross was the enemy that they faced.

          But I mean, this is just wishy washy psychology and nobody *really* knows other than Willis what the symbolism of the dream really meant. But it is pretty undeniable that Dorothy’s feeling at the very end of this strip is panic, in the same exact way that she felt when she thought they were safe and away and then she was taken again.

          If Joe is triggering enough that she has no filter on her hostility towards him when they’re alone, and she’s having a (maybe?) panic attack with her leaving, and not even thinking once about the complete hypocricy of the fact that earlier that day she was sexing up a dude, and not two seconds ago stated that she was in a relationship with that dude that she didn’t want to betray, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to believe that on some level she isn’t simply afraid of losing her, but she’s afraid of losing her to something dangerous.

        9. Li

          TL;DR: oh it’s totally reasonable to see it that way! I have different interpretations but there’s nothing wrong with any of yours. ? They’re interesting, thank you for sharing.

          We can ofc agree to disagree about the dream. ? (Those are interesting thoughts and a good read on it! I just stand by my thoughts personally.)

          As for “having no filter on Joe when they’re alone because he’s triggering” — see, if I thought she was being triggered by Joe in that sequence I would FULLY agree with your read and co-sign it.

          I think it’s actually just all about Dorothy’s loss of self-identity, and that she’s yelling more in Joe’s vicinity than directly at him, for all that she is definitely lashing out at him personally in a few places. Like I think that’s panic over having lost her goal and her drive and her life’s plans, both short-term and long-term (she’s not going to Yale but she has no idea what she’s going to do instead…), and now she doesn’t even have a firm grasp on her own sexuality? It’s scary. It can be be plenty triggering. Especially with how queer people are treated by society, realizing you’re bi isn’t a neutral thing, even if you have no internalized biphobia at all yourself.

          (And I think Joe also reads her upset as being about that, rather than about him, which is why he smiles ruefully at her and says, “Joyce does feel like everything, doesn’t she?” instead of offering to leave. BUT that is just me thinking that if he thought he was personally triggering her, he would back off instead of continuing to talk….. and it doesn’t account for the equally likely possibility that Joe just didn’t realize he was personally triggering her.)

          (And I do mean that that’s equally likely! I think Joe has come to a point where he kinda feels like women just deserve to be allowed to yell at him, and will just assume that it’s either literally justified (because he did something wrong to her) or generally justified (because even if he didn’t, he deserved to be yelled at.)

          (Which is a bad mental space for him and not one he deserves to occupy, if so!)

        10. Li

          Also apologies for the unnecessary Toedad vs Blaine info ? Shaking my fist at solidarity if it was a typo, apologizing for misreading if not.

        11. Li

          That said… I don’t really disagree with you in anything but degree. I think Dorothy has turned a corner on Joe. I genuinely think the only similarities between these two events are Dorothy wanting to run after Joyce and realizing it’s futile… with her PTSD making her feel worse, but not in a way where in any level she’s actually thinking “Joe is kidnapping Joyce”, or “Joe is going to hurt her”.

          My whole comment was mainly an early effort at pushback against the growing noise in the comments to the effect that Dorothy is equating Joe with a murderous kidnapper, which makes her a horrible person.

          And honestly I should’ve just pushed back on the second half, because the first half is kind of a matter of interpretation, isn’t it? And the second half is more important to me anyway.

          Even if on some level some part of her IS equating Joe with Blaine, that would still be something her brain is doing entirely on its own, without her consent, and it’s always her actions (which right now are not chasing after them) that really matter.

          Also I don’t think there’s even like 2% chance of Nice Girl Dorothy in the future, but again, matter of interpretation. ?

      2. Shade

        I don’t think it has anything to do with Joe specifically, rather her brain is connecting Joyce being taken away by someone for a date with the time she was abducted because brains be buttheads like that.

        1. Li

          I agree completely and also I see you pushpin’ that boulder up that hill, trying to remind everyone that Dorothy has PTSD. Your effort is appreciated.

          I also think that if Willis specifically showing us Dorothy’s PTSD with the coat hangers wasn’t enough, well……. some folks just really don’t like Dorothy, it doesn’t matter that she just had a feeling inside her own head that she isn’t acting on. It’s “look at that bongo, eating crackers” levels of “disliking someone enough that literally everything they do irritates you”, heh.

        2. Shade

          Thanks I appreciate it but I can understand why some people might not get it though.

          Arguing with your own brain about what’s real can sound very alien if you’ve never experienced anything like it before. So maybe a few words from people who have might help them understand what’s going on.

          Even if they still hate this fictional character if it helps them understand better when they interact with a real person going through it, well that would just be better for everyone.

        3. Li

          Oh, shoot, that came out like I was saying you shouldn’t be arguing your case, didn’t it. No. 🙁 Those were two discrete thoughts, like, “I salute you!” and also “On another note, Willis also tried to remind us this character has PTSD super recently, alas.”

          But absolutely, there’s a bigger point worth making regardless of how folks feel about Dorothy, re: not just PTSD or triggers (generally) but also intrusive thoughts specifically.

          S’no use moralizing a thought, and for some people it’s really really harmful.

  65. AGV/Ruby

    Someone give this girl a hug and a bucket of ice-cream.

    She’s not gone, Dorothy. She really isn’t.

  66. Heavensrun

    (holds up a giant sign that says DOROTHY HAS PTSD YOU GUYS)

    Nobody is saying that Joe is like Blaine or going off to have a nice time with him is like being kidnapped in a van. Dotty is having flashbacks to a time that she was afraid Joyce was going to die, because Dotty is traumatized.

    I swear to god if you see a veteran having a PTSD episode on the 4th of July do you walk up to them and go “Jesus christ, dude, I get that it’s loud, but it’s just *fireworks* stop overreacting…”

    1. Li

      I mean, I guess the “Dorothy is history’s greatest monster” truthers need to eat somehow after the last strip failed to deliver.

      1. Harry Brownhole

        History’s greatest monster is pushing it but she treated Danny really badly and has played fast and loose with Walkys heart

        1. Bash

          She barely even interacted with Danny at all during this strip.

        2. Nymph

          How did she treat Danny “really badly”?

          And with Walky, she was trying to accomplish a life goal and people think she should have just Not Done That because Boy? She broke up with Walky because her grades were slipping. She put her foot down about not continuing to sleep together because it was unfair to him. I legitimately can’t think of anything else she’s done to him besides tell him she loves him, patiently wait for him to figure his own feelings out, and give him advice she thought was valid and correct no matter how much it hurt her to do so.

        3. Nadamás

          I think the time she tries to make him break up with Lucy, after Being the one who help him get with her so he wouldn’t be available, qualifies. The fact she broke up with him later isn’t really relevant.

        4. Li

          See, we’re all just kinda guessing at what Harry Brownhole meant. I think Nymph is guessing “Dorothy played games with his heart by putting things on pause and then breaking up with him later,” because Harry also said she treated Danny horribly, and people have often criticized Dorothy for how she handled both breakups.

          I still think “playing fast and loose with Walky’s heart” isn’t really a fair way to talk about the mess with Lucy, though, because it implies a certain malfeasance? When really, Dorothy was and is a confused lonely teenager who missed Walky and, explicitly in the text, how much simpler her life was in the period where they were together. She tried to give Walky good advice in spite of her own feelings, the quality of which… varied, let’s say.

          And then, while struggling with all of this (gestures above at Dorothy’s traumatic feelings about Joyce/Joe, denial of her own romantic feelings for and jealousy over Dorothy, gifted child burnout, PTSD…), she asked Walky to leave Lucy for her and then tried to kiss him when he said things were “probably” over with Lucy, both of which were painful and awful for both of them, both of which she’s probably deeply ashamed of.

          I would actually NOT object to “she treated Walky poorly wrt Lucy”, I think that’s a very fair criticism, but “played with his heart”… I don’t think she’s ever been playing games, I think she’s just been making clumsy mistakes.

        5. Li

          idk if your Danny comment is about when they broke up, in which case jeez it’s been 15 years and she was like kinda sarcastic with him for two minutes after trying to be kind and empathetic and gentle demonstrably were not working because he wasn’t listening to her, or if you’re talking about when she was panicking about being bi and phrased things less than 100% awesomely, but either way, those are some takes.

        6. Li

          Like even if she actually meant “famously bi people are allowed to cheat” — obviously that is a thing she would both think and deliberately say out loud to a bi guy — Dorothy herself is bi, we cannot treat this like something said by a straight person. She wasn’t “horrible to Danny”, she was “horrible to herself, at 18, while navigating a brand-new identity”. And every other character coming to terms with their sexuality has said worse, including Danny, when he was skeptical that bisexuality really existed, or Jennifer, when she said she was pretty sure that was just a porn thing.

      2. Wilde

        Right? Sometimes I feel like if we watched Joyce drag Dorothy by the collar into her bed, ravish her, and then immediately propose, we’d still have folks trying to tug on the skin of Dorothy’s forehead to try and reveal she’s actually been a Scooby Doo villain manipulating Joyce all along.

        I think the time is here to follow my own advice from a few days back, to just skip reading comments for a while until I get back some chill ☃️

        1. Li

          Meme where Joyce shoots Dorothy dead, then turns to the camera, only it’s a certain segment of the commentariat asking, “How could Dorothy do this to Joyce???”

          And yeah, possibly same. Dorothy’s arc here is super compelling but I’m very grumpy reading comments right now.

        2. Li

          Okay for real for real done for a bit, headachey and bleh. Peace, y’all.

  67. Thing2

    “AUGH! WILLIS! YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD…”

  68. Axel

    might be time to start telling her therapist the truth, especially since she turned down yale already

  69. Woop de doop

    She means “bi” as in bisexual angst.

  70. Council

    Thas it

    I gotta stop reading

    this is bad for my heart:(
    You almost created a beautiful thing and it’s just a soap opera grade torture device

    Damn You Willis

    1. Amós Batista

      I’m considering it too. Tired to get baited and shit.

      1. Li

        I encourage folks to stop reading if that’s what they think will make them happier but honestly: this ship has NEVER been less bait.

        It’s probably gonna take a year or more to get there, but Dorothy and Joyce’s romantic tension is being taken super seriously by the narrative right now, and we are getting further exploration.

        Don’t let the 3% of poll voters who put Joyce as a Kinsey 0 and are still trying to defend that idea against all narrative evidence to the contrary convince you that this is bait.

        1. Li

          (It’s 5% of the vote but I’m rounding down a bit because a few folks have publicly said here that they’d change their vote to something higher if they could, and I assume that also reflects an equal chunk of non-commenting voters.)

        2. thejeff

          Amusingly there’s a higher percentage who say she’s a Kinsey 6 – completely homosexual, which is pretty wild.
          The evidence that she’s into girls is pretty solid and growing, but she’s been very obviously into boys all along.

        3. Li

          Oh, when I last looked those two were neck and neck. Which flavor of Joyce Sexuality Erasure Are You!

          (I have slightly more sympathy for the second group only because I knoooooow there’s gotta be at least some lesbians for whom Joyce is extremely relatable because their own coming out story looked a lot like this… coercive heteronormativity sucks!) (But I agree, Joyce is not a lesbian, she is a Classic Type of Bi.)

        4. Amós Batista

          God forgive people that wants a queer protagonist. Which is still rare.

        5. Li

          Nooooo, no, reading her as a Kinsey 1 and reading her as Kinsey 6 are both reading her as a queer character. Reading her as a Kinsey 6 though is reading her as a lesbian, which — I understand, even though I never actually had this specific type of repression when I thought I was a lesbian, I know it’s common… but which is unlikely for Joyce specifically.

        6. Amós Batista

          thanks

    2. Taffy

      Always with the assumptions of final form, this website.

      1. Council

        Okay, No that is not what I’m doing

        It is probably going to end on a happy note like 20 or 30 years from now or whatever

        The final form has no impact on how it makes me feel Right Now

        This had Every chance to resolve in a satisfying manner. This relationship was foreshadowed for ages. All Dorothy had to do was call up her bloody boyfriend, let him know she is fooling around for a bit, and ask Joe’s permission. It is the most Dorothy way to handle things.

        But that is Not the story Willis wants to tell. This chapter is about all the ways Dorothy is Dumbing. We are sticking the landing with the title no matter what. That this is where her way of doing this breaks down is written well enough to make sense. And so what?

        When Jennifer gets hurt by her own actions, I can handle that. I don’t identify with her. I Get these two. And they deserve better. Willis knows that, because that’s part of the point.

        We are getting bi erasure, we are getting self-inflicted heartbreak. We are at a point where I do not want to care how happy it ends because it is torture getting there.

        1. Li

          Oh, you should definitely bail, and ugh tone sucks on the internet but I mean that in all kindness, because even though I don’t think this is bi erasure, I fully agree that it’s gonna be at least a year, minimum, before Dorothy stops hurting and Joyce comes to terms with what this meant, and there will be a lot more angst and Dumbing in the immediate future (just look at the next four chapter titles!), and your feelings are valid.

          It’s very okay not to wanna watch that type of thing unfold at this pace, seriously. No judgments.

    3. Nymph

      For whatever it’s worth, the next storyline title is the lyrics of a song that was playing while Dorothy and Joyce were on the bed. I’mma go ahead and guess the storyline continues to progress.

      But also it’s a slice-of-life comic. So, yeah, it’s going to trend toward soap opera-y.

  71. Harry Brownhole

    The way Dorothy treated Danny and Walky means I have little sympathy for her here

  72. yak

    Willis pls

  73. Needfuldoer

    So we don’t get to see their date, then?

  74. John Campbell

    Oy. Seriously, people, Dorothy does not think that Joe is going to harm Joyce. She laid this out explicitly for us in an earlier comic. She thinks Joe is taking Joyce away from her. Not in the sense that he’s going to stuff her in a van and drive away with her and maybe murder her, but romantically.

  75. CianM1301

    I’d say Dorothy will probably need to update that number on the Kinsey scale…

  76. Amós Batista

    The “bye” is the cherry if the cake. Or the twist if the knife…

  77. Shade

    Oh no trauma response.

  78. Bittersweet

    Ngl Joyce, this is a little messed up. Can’t say I understand your thought processes or where you’re coming from even a little, especially not flipping a switch like yesterday. Not even a “Can we talk about this later?” to Dorothy, just a kind of cold “bye.” Kind of playing callously with people’s hearts here.

    Like, the only explanation at this point is that this was genuinely platonic on her end and the blushes meant nothing. Because like… otherwise there are a lot of implications that change the way I feel about Joyce as a person and I’d rather not. Because if the blushes were real, this strip means she *didn’t* discuss anything with Joe and was just going to cheat on him because Billie “said it was okay” (which as stupid as Billie is, she didn’t actually say that.) Because if they discussed this already, Joyce has no reason *not* to tell Dorothy they’d talk about it later, other than to mess with Dorothy’s head which might be further OOC than cheating.

    And like, regardless of “oH tHaT’s a ThOuGhT cRiMe” sentiment, the idea that Joyce can flip that switch so quickly really kind of confuses me just in general. Because *that* only makes sense if she either was feeling platonic or if she already discussed things with Joe. I’ve been in love triangles before, I’ve been at the hinge of them, it’s hard to switch gears like that if you care about people. Early relationship honeymoon phase usually prevents the Joyce/Dorothy thing if they’re happy (which by all indications Joyce and Joe are). Basically, “they’ve only been together a couple weeks” should be the least likely time for something like this to happen if it’s happy.

    Bleh. I just feel sorry for Dorothy and upset at Joyce. Especially the way Joyce doesn’t even look back after the goodbye, that’s super messed up given that they were 2 more minutes away from making out (had Dorothy not pulled away). Kinda bumps Joyce out from my favorite character spot, idk to where.

    1. Bash

      Or maybe she just didn’t know how to deal with the situation. She looks very awkward saying “bye”. I don’t think she intended anything, she got caught up in the moment with Dorothy, then Joe showed up and she tried to act like nothing was wrong.

    2. Axel

      re: there being no backward glance, she probably didn’t assume Dorothy would follow her out to the hall and longingly watch her leave

      also like, Joyce had no idea this was coming (even if you want to argue that he had plenty of hints and moments, she certainly didn’t know it was happening right now while Dorothy’s supposed to be helping pick a sweatervest). She wasn’t prepared for this, and all of a sudden Joe’s at the door and I can definitely relate to the “oh no I’m late and also doing something kind of illicit I need to get where I’m supposed to be”

      in any case I wouldn’t call it callous. she’s not ignoring dorothy’s feelings because she doesn’t care, she hasn’t had time to process what just happened, let alone think about how to deal with (nor what she wants to do about) what just happened

      1. thejeff

        Yeah, Joyce is going to need to process this. Wonder if it will wind up derailing their date and the proposed aftermath?

        But I’m in the camp that thinks none of this was intended on Joyce’s part. It’s been stewing inside for awhile, but still snuck up on her tonight and she hasn’t really worked out what any of it means. I don’t think she’s even seeing it as illicit yet. More “What just happened?” That’s all to come.

        We’ve seen Dorothy acknowledge her bisexuality and her crush on Joyce. Now we’re likely to see Joyce deal with the same.

    3. Kaz

      Welcome to the fun mixture of college, a sheltered childhood, and autism. Whether she thinks or knows it’s wrong doesn’t matter because when you mix those three things, especially when you remember she’s not really had a relationship other than Joe (cause Ethan’s was fake), she’s essentially just a slave to going with the flow.

  79. CJ

    Do we know that memory of Dotty?
    I don’t remember her running after an ambulance…

    1. Dante

      Kidnapping. Dorothy tried to run after Blaine’s white van, but no amount of track and field would’ve helped against an actual car.

  80. Dante

    //Lies down
    //Rolls Over
    //Cries.

  81. Adept

    Keep it together Dotty

    1. Nadamás

      She gonna need that volumetric shit compressor.

  82. Francoinblanco

    Turn around
    Turn around
    Turn around and you’re a young girl
    Goin’ out of the door

  83. Schpoonman

    Alright, bringing back *Stormlight* references.

    I’m seeing a lot of people say Dorothy is fucked up right now conflating Joe and Blaine not because she thinks Joe is as dangerous as Blaine (which she might, hidden thoughts/motivations like this are about as variably interpretable as your average religious text, except we have real authors), but because she’s seeing Joyce being “taken away” from her.

    More negation of Joyce’s agency! Was Joe pushing Joyce out the door? No. Joyce got up and left with him of her own volition
    You people need to read Oathbringer.

    1. Schpoonman

      I meant to italicize “Stormlight” but have been spending a lot of time on Discord.

  84. Saucistophe

    End of storyline???
    I’m cranking up the Damn-You-Willis counter

  85. Rabisch

    So, next strip Dorothy in her room crying so much that Becky will ask her what happened, discovering everything, or with Dorothy running after them, punch Joe on his face and continuing running taking Joyce’s hand in her hand ?

  86. Sharizard

    Joyce in that second panel.

    ‘Whoa, we were just about to kiss.’

    OR

    ‘Whoa, was Dorothy just about to kiss me?’

    I honestly can’t tell…

    1. thumb

      There’s no “whoa”. They were both about to kiss, and now they don’t. It’s just sad and unresolved and uncertain. That’s all there is to it.

  87. Zamperla

    ~Trauma doesn’t have to make sense~

  88. TGS

    I think today’s and yesterday’s strips show me two things about Joyce.

    1. Joyce’s expressed feelings are very much grounded in whatever the immediate stimulus is. She feels what she feels when she feels it.

    2 Joyce doesn’t always connect the dots between “how she feels” and how societal tropes and expectations typically play out.

    So I don’t think Joyce sees the whiplash the way that the audience does. She feels very strongly about Dotty, and she feels very strongly about Joe, and there is no contradiction there.

    1. Nep

      Agreed entirely. She feels a bit like me when I’m with my boyfriend and then spouse. Attachment with my whole heart to one and then the other, and there’s no contradiction there.

      When together, I’m extremely attached to both, but there’s not the extreme focus switch because we’ve practiced being the same room together. I know how I’m supposed to engage with both at the same time. She doesn’t, she knows she has plans with Joe, that Dorothy pushed her away, and that she is going to go forward with the plans she’s super looking forward to.

      Yes, I’m hoping for a Joyce is poly storyline.

    2. Adept

      I like your read TGS

    3. TGS

      I’m not sure if this will actually turn Joyce identifying as poly or pursuing a poly relationship with anyone. I’m not opposed to it if she comes to that realization, and obviously potential seeds are there, but it is too soon for her to have that kind of self awareness. I just don’t think the implications of her feelings are always carried through in the way that they do for most people. I feel like her brain was basically going, “I feel really connected to Dotty and this feels strange but right so I’m OK with whatever intimacy happens.” There is no deeper implication or meaning – it is all just “this is what I feel right now”. Then Dotty sat up, leading to a brief and jarring transition where she was probably wondering why Dotty was suddenly so worked up, only for that train of thought to be replaced by the immediate feelings of “Yay, Joe is here!” Joyce is going to have to knowingly and intentionally think these things through if she is going to realize the additional implications of her feelings and actions. Very similar to how she acted with Jacob. I don’t think her main goal was to disrupt Jacob’s relationship – it was just to enjoy what made sense to her at the moment. I suspect this is related to her neurodivergence, although I am not nearly well-schooled in such matters to say for sure.

      1. TGS

        *turn into Joyce identifying…

      2. Nep

        Totally agreed again. My poly hope is a long term hope for Joyce, not a fix to this situation. And not something I even expect to happen.

        And I agree entirely that she’s not thinking through what she’s feeling, she’s just acting on what she feels at the time. She needs to sit down and be more thoughtful and less impulsive about what her feelings mean and how to express said feelings.

        This. Still rings entirely too true for me as well.

  89. Vaishino

    Dumbing of Age: aka Everyone still has trauma from first semester’s kidnapping.

    1. Mr.Morningstar

      Honestly, dorothy does not seem to have ever really CONFRONTED her trauma before now. It seemed very much a “I was more a bystander” feeling with her and not really letting herself be a victim in this? Or her thinking she has to be the one to pull herself together so the ones MORE effected can rely on her.

  90. Shakes

    I envy all the commenters with “normal” functional brains calling Dorothy dramatic, and thank those trying to make them understand that trauma, anxiety, catastrophizing and the like don’t come from the thinking brain.

  91. ScienceOfFantasy

    There’s a 2% chance Dorothy runs after them and tackles Joyce into a crying, blubbering kiss. The other 98% laughs at me for suggesting that

  92. Deanatay

    So why is Dorothy seeing the van Blaine used to kidnap Joyce? Is she thinking she’s lost her forever?

    It’s okay, Dottie. Just do what you did last time – call Amazi-Girl! She – or, rather, Amber – will dream up some REALLY disastrous sit-commy ideas to win her back!

    1. Taffy

      I said something close to this on Patreon yesterday, so I totally agree.

  93. Mr.Morningstar

    Now as much as I’m always for the sapphire love stories I honestly don’t think dorothy and Joyce should get together, even if Joe and walky were a non issue.

    I think while the two are close, dorothy is still mothering her in many ways, their relationship is honestly her helping her undo alot of her fundie programming, and also giving her the chance to explore different aspects about herself she was discouraged from before.

    Now, that can also come (ha) sexually in terms of exploring their own sexualities.

    But at the same time, Dorothy is still being the mom friend, and while Joe encourages her to try different things (like listen to some new music) he isn’t acting like a parent would, he’s acting like a partner.

    And honestly, it’s a problem in dorothy and walkys relationship too, how he’s pretty immature (alot worse atbthe start) and kinda needs to be mother educated at times, and I just don’t think that’s conducive to a good relationship. With a friend you know hasn’t been exposed to alot sure, it’s easy to help them bow and then, but I a relationship it’s very easy to fall into the habit of acting like their mom, and while it can very very easily lead to resentment from the “parental” side, when it keeps happening since it usually ends up feeling they are putting more in than they’re getting out.

    It’s why unless walky changes more it’s doomed, and due to Joyce’s upbringing I know dorothy would feel I clined to act that way with her more

    1. Mr.Morningstar

      Gah typos

    2. Nymph

      I’m so tired of this “maturity = mother” shit that gets tacked onto Dorothy all the time. I can’t help wondering why none of the men in the comic ever get accused of being like a dad to Joyce. Jacob was certainly giving off the more mature/gently amused at Joyce’s behavior vibes, but no one said “Joyce, that’d be like dating your dad ewww!” Same with Joe, you excuse his experience and behavior away as “partner-like”.

      I just find it interesting that it’s only the female characters in the comic who get accused of parental behavior and usually Dorothy specifically. And I know I’ll catch a few comments to the effect of “it’s not that deep” but I kinda think it is.

      1. AnonGrouch

        All of this ^. Dorothy is a helper. She helps people. Her love language is spreadsheets and memos. My birth mother never helped me the way Dorothy helps her friends. She was a standoffish ‘figure it out yourself’ type of person. My mother mother was very hands on and helpful like Dorothy, but again not to the degree, depth, or obsession that Dorothy is. Different people exhibit different forms of care in their relationships. Categorizing a certain type of response as motherly is just the patriarchy talking even if you don’t mean to (seriously don’t feel guilty for it, the patriarchy tricks us all into doing it’s bidding without a significant amount of effort to beat it out of you no matter your gender.)

      2. Bittersweet

        Well, that’s really easy. None of the men in the cast really act like a stereotypical dad to Joyce. Being a mom friend is a common phenomenon, being a dad friend is less so, but it is still a thing. None of the dudes in the cast get overly protective of Joyce, they don’t give her life advice on how to handle relationships (Joe comes closest here), they aren’t really responsible, they don’t fix things for her, etc. Joe really comes closest to being a dad friend, but Joyce never really utilized that in the way she utilizes Dorothy. Dad Friend fixes your car, buys you lunch, makes sure you’ve studied, maybe threatens a boyfriend if y’all’ve got a really weird dynamic. Mom friend makes appointments, collates info for you, ensures you take care of your personal needs.

        People call Dorothy the Mom friend because that’s what Dorothy is, that’s the role Dorothy for most her life has sought out to play. It ensures she’ll be needed and is a way of dealing with her insecurity. Part of her arc is learning how to not be “the Mom friend.”

        1. Bittersweet

          (I know about the existence of the Dad Friend because my husband is that for his friends, he takes care of them and often accidentally parents them because even though they’re similar ages, we have a child and my husband is at a different life stage from most of his friends. It also has the therapy friend dynamic of mom friend, it’s just like… it’s maybe a more intimate emotional dynamic than Mom Friend I think, possibly because dudes have that reluctance to emotional intimacy beaten into them, that when Dad Friend pops up it’s a bit of an interesting dynamic to witness.)

        2. AnonGrouch

          look I get that it is easy short hand and I’m definitely not telling you not to use it, but hear me out ‘mom’ and ‘dad’ are ‘socially required’ to be responsible for you, ‘friends’ are fucking not.

          Being mature and looking out for your friends to ME is just part of being ‘a good friend’. Am I a ‘mom friend’ for doing so? No. I’m just thoughtful and invested in the happiness of my friends.

          I think you are making perfectly reasonable insights but have labels that skew the analysis of the relationships in question for SOME people (not saying you specifically). But, let’s take your own situation for example irt your husband. You made the value judgement that it is an ‘intimiate emotional dynamic’. This is probably true of your husbands relationships, especially given the social context you rightly noted in the next part of the sentence. But I bet you people don’t put the blame on him when his friends make stupid mistakes if he gave input. But back to comic analysis if ‘the dad friend doesn’t tell Joyce not to make a stupid mistake or gives ‘the best advice they can but it doesnt resolve the problem” I bet you the majority isn’t going to blame ‘dad friend’ for being imperfect (and if they do apologies in advanced it is a generalization based on how (American) society tends to go).

          Dorothy otoh has been blamed a lot for a lot of shit that really isn’t her fault or responsibility in the Joyce/Dorothy dynamic. That’s what I think part of what Nymph was getting at. “The comments” (subconsciously or not) tend to assign responsibility and part of that is intrinsically due to the ‘mom’ part of the ‘mom friend’ label.

        3. AnonGrouch

          The apology was supposed to be irt making assumptions about your husbands past dealings, not for the comment section lol. Too bad I can’t edit it.

        4. Nymph

          So, even just the way you delineate “mom friend” and “dad friend” is patriarchal as a heads up. You assign “dad friend” the traditionally masculine pursuits (fixing a car, threatening male romantic interests, paying for things) and the “mom friend” traditionally feminine pursuits (appointments, emotional needs, etc).

          Dorothy isn’t Joyce’s mom. Both in the sense that (as AnonGrouch says) she isn’t actually responsible for Joyce, and in the sense that it wouldn’t make it weird/uneven/problematic for her to be in a relationship with Joyce.

          She is a deeply caring, traumatized, and organized woman with empathetic approaches to problems she comes across. Her arc isn’t about learning to “not be” those things, her arc is about finding out that the reason she’s been so unusually laser focused on Joyce is because she is romantically interested in her and dealing with what that means for her life.

          Why do we have to assign her “mother” just because she cares for people and wants to help a woman she’s romantically interested in or close friends with?

        5. Proxiehunter

          If Joyce dated anyone outside the usual circle of friends I think pretty much everyone she knows would have gash-face flashbacks and would line up to threaten what would happen to them if they ever dared to hurt her.

          Starting with Sarah but not stopping there.

      3. Mr.Morningstar

        I’m not saying maturity = mother. It’s more then that though dorothy genuinely does things for her that a mother should.

        Like I’m sorry but she books doctors appointments for her, organizes things FOR her, she does things most friends wouldn’t do for her and yes you could argue its because of it. Jacob didn’t do that, he never even implied a similiar level of things.

        It has nothing to do with her gender, and if she was a man I’d be saying a similar thing and I’d that you not to make that assumption of me thank you.

        1. Mr.Morningstar

          Because of her feelings for her*

        2. Nymph

          “And I know I’ll catch a few comments to the effect of “it’s not that deep” but I kinda think it is.”

          I disagree with you that Dorothy acts like a mother just because she is a caring friend. I also disagree that if she was a man anyone would be assigning her “dad friend” and talking about how weird it is that she is interested in Joyce.

          Sorry if you don’t like my assumptions, they weren’t specifically targeted at you. You just happen to have brought it up today and I had time to call it out. Feel however you feel about that, but I do still think there’s patriarchal status quo bullshit at the heart of saying Dorothy’s acting like a “mom”.

        3. Mr.Morningstar

          Yes she’s a caring friend but she absolutely acts motherly towards her. Moreso than ANYONE else, which is the main reason she is brought up.

          Like im sorry, but most people who are in this position at this age,.the last thing they do is try to teach her all the things.her parents did not, her being motherly toward is not a BAD thing either it’s more, if it was a romantic relationship the dynamic becomes very one sided.

          The “parental” partner for lack of a better word, can essentially go “because I told you so” and basically nkt have pushbike in these situations.

          Of Joe was acting this way I’d be doing the same thing, but dorothy acts like a parent near her, she’s scolded her like a child more than once, and frankly sometimes the story portrays her as infantalizing joyce moreso than anyone else.

          That is why I said what I said, and why I dint think they’d be a good couple, the power dynamic would be skewed from the get go, and whether intentional or not its doesn’t end well.

        4. Nymph

          I disagree with you about Dorothy behaving “motherly” and have explained my position as well as the internalized sexiam I think is at the root of people feeling like the dynamic wouldn’t work and literally calling in incestuous sometimes. You’ve explained yours, and we disagree. We’re at an impasse. Have a lovely day.

        5. Doopyboop

          If I’m remembering correctly, she booked one appointment, the glasses appointment. She offered to help book the birth control one but was declined. She doesn’t make a habit of it. Yeah, parents do tend to do that for people, but Joyce is also like, very fresh for being on her own and has never had to do either of those types of appointments. Getting advice and assistance from a peer is hardly strange.

      4. Li

        This this this. Not saying it’s conscious, societal programming is a bongo, but absolutely no one has had any problems with Joyce’s “maturity” gaps with Jacob or Joe. It’s only Dorothy who people are trying to specifically shove into a “too mature for her and also she’s her literal mom” box, and it’s only been her female friends who commenters have harangued for “bullying” her about her neuroses, even though Jacob and Joe have both absolutely also had moments of finding Joyce similarly funny/weird/cute.

        Somehow it’s only condescending and mean when those reactions come from women, and it’s only a power dynamic / “””””incest””””” issue for Dorothy and Becky.

        (That latter being a comparison I was more on board with before I started seeing people say “it’s weird that Becky doesn’t feel the same way” — Joyce doesn’t feel that way either! She just doesn’t see Becky romantically! There’s a difference between “platonic friend you have 0% attraction to” and “literal family”, and jokes aside, Becky and Joyce haven’t even been friends as long as Danny and Joe; Joyce moved around too much. They’ve only known each other since like middle school.)

        1. Li

          *moved churches too much, not moved houses

        2. David M Willis

          The Browns and McIntyres moved around to most of the same churches — this is something my family and other church families did as “issues” were found. There were families I’d known since young childhood who I saw every weekend even though we’d moved like three churches in the meantime.

        3. Li

          Oooooooh, thank you! Honestly I had a vague feeling we might have seen a younger flashback with Becky and Joyce, but I found the point that Joyce had changed churches a lot really compelling.

          Thank you for clarifying, Willis!

        4. Yumi

          Willis obviously cleared this first (and, y’know, officially), but we have also seen Joyce and Becky in the comic when they were younger than middle school age. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/documents/
          https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-10/02-to-remind-you-of-my-love/sixflags/

        5. Yumi

          (Also, Becky has been picking the sausage off pizza for Joyce since they were five years old.)

        6. Li

          head desk

          I had FUZZY memories of younger!Becky but yeah I was so compelled by the argument that I was assuming I was misremembering things, conflating Joyce’s childhood with like, Bitty Walky and Billie or something, but how. How could I forget the sausage pizza strip, I love that strip.

          Brains suck sometimes.

    3. Pergola

      Mom is losing her child.
      Tomorrow: Sidney Yus eating cereal.

      1. Taffy

        If I could go back in time, I’d murder whoever got “mom friend” started.

    4. Leon

      I get what you mean. You’re saying Dorothy “mom” tendencies could lead to her feeling resentment or seeing herself as putting in more than she gets from her partner. I don’t think it’s particularly likely as things have progressed, though.

      This was awhile ago but when she blew up at Jennifer in the life drawing story line, her anger was directed at her because she was shamed earlier by her for not helping Joyce and then got rebuffed by Joyce after stepping up when Jennifer ghosted. Even when Joyce was telling her to back off and whatnot, she caught herself before getting mad and knew it would be unfair. All of this is wrapped up in Dorothy’s own self-image of having to be good at everything she tries, or her work (making everyone else’s lives better). This has been getting picked away at for some time and she’s been changing.

      The thing about Dorothy, though, people even have extreme reactions to her doing stuff like this.

  94. AnonGrouch

    me reading comic: ‘wow this sure is an irrational trauma response, poor dorothy, i hope she gets cuddles’
    over half the comments: ‘wow dorothy that’s a fucked up and irrational response how dare you’
    Girl just needs in the long term therapy and in the short term Walky cuddles and a pint of ice cream. Any other response is ridiculous.

    1. Taffy

      ‘I can’t believe Dorothy would do this to me, specifically me and in such a personal manner, having thoughts in her brain like this. Fictional women shouldn’t have thoughts or emotions I haven’t expressly asked for! Why, next we’ll be saying real women should be doing that. To me. Thoughts and feelings are something a woman does to me, an act of defiance and malice.”

      Or something like that, I’m not psychic.

      1. Nymph

        Wait, you’re not psychic? Then why have I been paying you 99.99 for readings every thursday?

    2. Big Z

      How about a third option: “Dorothy, you need therapy and cuddles, but I worry you’re not in a mental place where YOU realize you need therapy and cuddles and I hope you don’t make poor trauma-response decisions instead.”

      1. AnonGrouch

        I mean sure some people have been nuanced about it, but they are the minority.

        Also this is Dorothy, one of the MOST introspective characters in this fucking comic. Kinda how we got here honestly. Given she keeps having this type of trauma response, I figure this is a situation where it’d be more likely someone points it out before she gets to figuring it out herself, but like, can we at least all agree Dorothy is her own toughest critic and has at SEVERAL points ‘realized a bunch of stuff ON HER OWN’. Stuff that would take less equipped less critical less introspective people YEARS if not NEVERS to figure out?

        As for ‘poor trauma-response decisions’ like… I think some people here (and I’m not saying you are one of them) don’t understand how trauma can literally IMPAIR your executive functions to varying degress ‘making a decision’ is like… not really how it works depending on the type of response. Would she bare the responsibility for the resulting actions? Yeah. Would it be a decision? ‘Depends on how deep the trauma is’ (context clues from the comic at least for me point to ‘pretty deep’) At the very least whether or not the panels are metaphorical or actually going on in her head she almost certainly doesn’t have control over having those feelings and they are NOT on purpose.

        1. Big Z

          I’m DEFINITELY coming at this from a place of “I have made poor trauma-response decisions, while introspecting so hard I had convinced myself I was making good decisions and didn’t need therapy, no sir.”

  95. Acher4

    ohno…. :_____(

    oh well.

    At least they aren’t red panels.
    That’s something at least.

  96. Acher4

    Checking the storylines on the left of the site.

    The next is the last of Book 15, and it is called:
    “The Only Exception!”

    :O
    oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    1. Adept

      Oh dear.

  97. Disastroid

    And then Dorothy wakes up.

  98. Fahed

    Hot take: I don’t think Joe and Joyce will have sex tonight.
    Joe doesn’t seem like he’s ready for it, and they haven’t really discussed that with each other – he just chatted briefly to Dina about it (unless I missed something!)

    1. Leon

      I can see both him and Joyce getting cold feet for different reasons. Wasn’t it just the other day Joe said he didn’t realize they were at the sexy pix stage (despite the hj) and Joyce replied she was accelerating past some stages?

  99. Astra Anima

    LET THEM THROUPLE DAMN YOU, WE CAN STILL SALVAGE THIS

    (yes I’m aware that it’s not that simple but LET ME DREAM)

    1. Nymph

      IT IS ABSOLUTELY THAT SIMPLE, JUST PHOTOSHOP THEM SMOOCHING.

      …or something.

      1. AnonGrouch

        I know it is supposed to be smooching but your profile pic definitely looks like they are fighting over a piece of taffy or something and it amuses me.

        1. Nymph

          lmao if they ARE then Joyce is winning, and good for her.

        2. Taffy

          Unfortunately for both of them, taffy is more partial to Ruth.

      2. NGPZ

        wow that’s impressive! if you told me Willis drew that I would have believed you! :D

        1. Nymph

          Willis did draw it! I just photoshopped it together.

  100. V98

    Augh. Just… augh. This is really sad. 🙁

    Willis giveth, Willis taketh away.

  101. Farmer_10

    Oh, c’mon Dorothy. That was like five traumas ago.

  102. achallenger

    confirmed: joe is just two Faz in a sweater vest

  103. Starlight

    Should have gone with Chappell Roan

  104. Suet

    Am I wishing that the date goes well? Absolutely.
    Am I seeing another spiral incoming? Absolutely.

    if only she had a horse

    1. Suet

      HORRRRRRSSSSSE

  105. Poppakat

    Willis you made me yell, “Damn you Willis” at my monitor. It confused the hell out of my poor cats.

  106. Amós Batista

    Almost all this situation with Dorothy happened to me, in a way or another.
    And, even with all therapy she’s doing, I don’t see any sollution for her than leave.

    Go, accept that Yale invitation and exchange Joyce’s crush with a great succesful carrer . And left her for all.

    There’s no sollution than break her relationship with Joe, and everthing showed it’s impossible.

    Leave, there’s no happiness for you in Indiana anymore. You don’t consider Joyce your friend anymore.

    1. Rabisch

      That would be the best thing to do. But it’s very unlikely the strip will lose one of the main characters like that.

      1. Amós Batista

        Well, Mike is gone…

    2. Nadamás

      Very weird things to say.

    3. Taffy

      Eh, it’s a little much. Just moving buildings to create a smidge of distance would be more than enough. Sure they share classes, but the degree of separation a different building affords is plenty afterward.

    4. yak

      it’s true, at this point Dorothy is holding herself back because she can’t let Joyce go.

  107. Astariel

    Poor Dorothy. If I were her, I’d go to bed and not get up until Monday.

    1. Nymph

      Same. Like, thanks I’m all set with this week, hit me up on the reset.

    2. Dave

      Or, and hear me out, this is weird, but go get Walky for some fun times? He could be down there getting the job done and Dot’s eyes close and she imagines someone else getting it done? Shouldn’t take long…

      1. V98

        If Dorothy Starts Saying Joyce’s Name During Sex Again Walky Will Walk Off A Bridge And Never Come Back

      2. Astariel

        @Dave If that’s what she wants, more power to her. Personally, I wouldn’t be in mood for anything but self-pity.

  108. zee

    Girl,,,,,fucking, talk to your therapist about your ptsd/c-ptsd (there’s been multiple points of trauma here at this point). You don’t wanna be president anymore, you’re out of justifiable reasons to lie!

    1. Arianod

      This.

    2. elfroyalty

      so true. thank you kasane teto…

    3. Sydney

      EXACTLYYYYY LIKE GIRL…. THIS IS NOT A SUSTAINABLE WAY TO LIVE.

  109. Dave

    I’ve never missed Mike more than I do right now. He would know just the right thing to say to ruin this moment for EVERYONE.

    1. Proxiehunter

      I’m sure Booster can do the same thing in a different way.

  110. Yeet

    at least it’s not a red panel?
    poor dotty

  111. Mai

    Ah yes, the age old question of, “Am I sexually attracted to this person or am I manifesting my trauma about losing them and don’t currently have the tools to fully understand the depth of that emotion?”

    I mean, probably both in this case, but..

  112. Nadamás

    So evil. So genius.

  113. thumb

    Good luck, babe.

    1. thumb

      Also, glad I waited to vote on the Kinsey Scale poll.

  114. Nadamás

    Dorothy IS equating Joyce going on a date with her getting kidnapped in a van and that is very good, cool and sexy of her.

    1. yak

      very healthy coping mechanism. I myself think of all of my relationships only in terms of the most traumatic parts of them. For instance, every time I speak to one of my best friends, the specter of the bad acid trip I failed to help him through is always in the back of my mind!

      (This isn’t true any more, we’ve both been over that for a long time, but it was true for a year or so after and it was probably unhealthy)

      1. Big Z

        Yeah, honestly, I had a friend who I went through depression with and we both ended up calling 911 for each other at one point… and we haven’t really talked after that year closed up. At some point it was too much bad and we kinda just mutually decided we’d saved each other once and that was more than anyone could ask.

    2. Gwen

      I mean, that’s certainly one interpretation. Could also be her usual self-doubt reflecting a situation where she thinks she’s screwed everything up and is going to end up without Joyce in her life, something she equates with the situation where she nearly lost her more literally, something she’s been shown to have literal nightmares and intrusive thoughts about.

      1. Nadamás

        No I think it is her literally thinking a date is the exact same as getting kidnapped which is again, very cool and extremely sexy of her.

        1. Yumi

          So sexy that over in his room, Walky has gotten a raging hard on and has no idea why.

  115. BYM!

    God we’re going to skip to tomorrow and have to figure out what happened today, aren’t we? DYW. D. Y. W.

    1. NGPZ

      I mean what time is it in this strip exactly? “tomorrow” may be sooner than you think XD

      1. thejeff

        They were getting ready for a date and now they’re leaving on it. Unless they had plans for a midnight showing of something, it’s probably not that late and we’re going to miss at least most of the date.

        1. thejeff

          Having written “midnight showing”, I’m now assuming Joe’s taking her to Rocky Horror.

          For which assumption, I blame my misspent youth.

        2. NGPZ

          Only one way to find out! >:D

          “Let’s do The TIME WARP agaaaaaaaaain!!!”

  116. Michelle J Caboose

    It’ll be fine, probably.

  117. Florence

    Beyond appreciating the way Dorothy holds the panel of the door also being the comic panel edge, my only other response is

    Oh Dorothy ?

  118. Charles Phipps

    Joe defeated Dorothy here like Revan and Darth Malak.

    Prove me wrong.

    (Yes, this is an insane comparison but weirdly came up in a conversation about it)

  119. Lilith Rose

    Look at the bright side, you’re now each others’ first-in-line if rebounds are ever needed…

  120. Sydney

    NOVEL INCOMING… SKIP NOW IF YOU WANT TO LIIIVE

    Joyce/Dotty has always been my least favorite of the sapphic Joyce ships and the one I’d always hoped *wouldn’t* be Joyce’s bisexual awakening… Their friendship alone is already extremely fraught from shared traumatic experiences- hence a lot of the possessive/controlling/codependent behavior which is mutual but honestly usually aimed *at* Joyce- and I don’t really find that foundation romantic or enjoyable as things currently stand.

    Theres also a disconnect in their relationship in general where Dotty acts as the caretaker/’authority’ to Joyce (the mommest mom of them all, in Billie’s words) who knows whats best for her and the “right” way to do things, while Joyce is her awestruck, wide-eyed #1 fan that takes her word as gospel and thinks shes the best thing ever. They’ve never just been on equal ground in my mind- one is always on a pedestal and the other always “needs” to be “saved”.

    It’s just not something I enjoy as a basis for their romance, especially with the problems in their friendship that have long gone unaddressed.

    And hey, maybe they’ll be addressed now! But with the quickly rocketing romantic conflict I fear those issues are more likely to be labeled as things like romantic jealousy/attraction/denial rather than established, pre-existing conditions of their friendship.

    AND MAN THIS ISN’T EVEN GETTING INTO HOW IT REFLECTS ON OTHER RELATIONSHIPS IN THE STORY. Mainly Walky/Dotty which has increasingly just made me feel terrible for… Walky??!? Who, if you know me, is not a character I consider often (No hate, he’s just his own worst enemy).

    TLDR: I’ve been following this comic far too closely for far too long, and I have concerns.

    1. Leon

      You’re good. That’s a novella compared to other long comments.

      I get where you’re coming from, but I do think people are quick to remove or not consider Joyce’s agency and her growth as a character at times (same with Dorothy here). It’s a trend I noticed e.g. Joyce must have taken Jennifer’s talk about plantonic besties as fact because she’s Joyce, Dorothy is taking advantage of her obliviousness earlier in this story line. Those are a bit extreme. In actuality, Joyce called out Jennifer years ago on her supposed wisdom. What about the story line when Joyce is actively pushing Dorothy away and momentarily revels in the power she feels has over Dorothy? A recent major breakthrough in their relationship is Dorothy revealing she feels the need to be perfect in Joyce’s eyes, has a fear of letting her down, and communicating that to Joyce. Joyce herself recently framed their dynamic as “learning how to let each other say yes”, which doesn’t sound unhealthy.

      Basically, I think what you hope will be addressed has been already happening for years like this bit of comedy from Joyce. I do wonder how it’s going go in the next storyline.

  121. Joey245

    And the worst part is
    Before it gets any better we’re
    Heading for a cliff
    And in the freefall I will realize
    I’m better off when I hit the bottom

    (Yes I am using Joyce’s introduction to Paramore as an excuse to comment my favorite lyrics, you can’t stop me!)

  122. Joy

    ……..PTSD flashbacks are so fickle and just inappropriate to the situation sometimes, what a mood.

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