I think that ever since meeting Joyce Sarah looked upon her as a ‘little sister’, and the incident Lumino refers to is where she finally accepted and acknowledged the fact – especially when you look at some of the sniping and bantering back and forth, which is also in keeping with what one finds among siblings, real or self-appointed.
Yeah, I’ve never shipped Joyce/Dorothy* but today I discovered I could totally go for an alternate universe where Joyce/Sarah is a thing
*(apparently, despite Joyce’s theoretical bisexuality mirroring my own non-theoretical bisexuality, I am very invested in Straight Joyce? Like, for Becky’s sake? It wasn’t you, honey, she just isn’t into ladies! …If I thought this about real people, it would be uncool, but they’re fictional so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
I don’t know why but them all waxing philosophical on garbage roof feels like then end of story moment to me. Maybe with a stinger for the next chapter. Just saying.
Yeah I believe there’s still more story to tell, but this does feel like a big bookend to not just this story but an entire era of DoA to me. Most if not all of the characters have changed and are in a significantly different and in my opinion better place in their lives.
BBCC
Oh, for sure! The story’s going to take big turns. Everything’s changed.
Each book chapter is about three months of strips, according to the archive. This chapter started on June 24, and it’s August 30.
I know it feels like an end of book moment, but we still have about three weeks to go. And we still haven’t seen the repercussions of Blaine’s death on his family, or his former employers…
Oh gosh. Willis wouldn’t just end it on a cliff hanger with us all going, “damn you, Willis” would he!?
Norah
Did everyone who’s thinking the strip is about to end happen to notice he has strips done through December 27? So even if it does end, we’ll at least have about four more months.
TheStranger
I thought he’d said in the past he intends to do this strip for yeeeeeeeeeeeeears yet. Because twins to put through college, yo.
IIRC Willis tweeted a while ago that the next book/chapter will be kind of a “soft reboot”, and that makes sense. We’ve seen some of the bigger conflicts of the first 10 years resolve (or start wrapping up), but there’s still unresolved plot threads. All the new art is winter-themed and there’s snow everywhere, which hints at a bigger time skip than we’ve seen before.
It does seem like it’s happening, unless it’s a big meta fakeout. I’m not entirely sold on the idea. There’s so much in play a big time skip is going to be weird.
Sarah needs to discover that “Stockholm Syndrome” was largely made up by a guy who twisted the facts of the case study because he couldn’t accept that the hostage in question (a woman, of course) was right and the cops were wrong. Clearly, her disagreement with the police was because she’d formed an unhealthy psychological bond with the criminals, not because the cops were about to get everyone killed out of stupidity.
That really was a fascinating case when the details became more publicly known, in the sense of “How To Completely Fail at Your Jobs”. It was bungled from start to finish by a staggering combination of incompetence and arrogance.
Scanning the Wikipedia article on Stockholm Syndrome, I’m gonna highlight:
1) there’s a 2020 book that makes thes same accusation Dave is making, so it’s a likely source for his claims;
2) the DSM has never included it, but not necessarily because it’s not a thing;
3) the Wikipedia article is really badly designed, having decided to drop an entire section on child psychology into the mix to give the entire concept some semblance of weight.
As a completely untrained rando, I’m inclined to agree with Dave. It’s caught on in popular imagination, but there appears to be no real scientific basis for it, and certainly no rigorous definition for it.
CJ
Sometimes, stuff gets called after events that do not really fit in the end.
There a a number of reported cases of kidnapping victims cooperating with their captors (Patty Hurst comes to mind) and, you know, it sounds like a survival strategy that might even make sense under certain circumstances. Circumstances most people fortunately never encounter.
Well, for one, none of the hostages married their captors. One of the men did have many admirers after he was sentenced, because he was considered rather good-looking and the case was well-publicized. The woman he became engaged to while in prison was a woman who wrote to him while he was in prison. That’s actually not even that interesting. It happens with a lot of famous criminals.
The entire situation was just….not well handled. The hostages did sympathize with the robbers, but when looked at without the romanticism and urban legends that sprang up around the case, it becomes much more cut-and-dried. While they did threaten the hostages, the hostages said the robbers never actually did much to them. They were more afraid of law enforcement, who kept escalating the situation, to the point that they overtook the bank by using tear gas. And the robbers weren’t criminal masterminds. They were criminals, yes, but they were pretty much just average men. While holed up together, the two parties developed a rapport, is all. And one woman did have a friendship with one of the robbers afterwards.
There was no “falling in love with their captors”. There was no “insanity”. It was some hostages being critical of how law enforcement handled it, and not believing the robbers were the spawn of the devil. However, law enforcement was not looking good after the situation (the usage of tear gas, how long it went on, etc), and now the victims weren’t falling down on their knees praising them, so the reports got spun into “well obviously they just went crazy and we are Right and Infallible”. If I remember right, the doctor who coined the term never even spoke with the hostages beyond one conversation.
I feel as though Joyce has come to the realization that the narrow world-view she was raised with is so far from reality, it might as well have been like being raised in a box. Everyone seems to just know things she doesn’t. Parents are not infallible, divorce is not that bad, sex is a personal choice, etc. Things most eighteen-year-olds already know, she’s just learning, and I imagine she’s not only angry with her parents for everything that’s happened, but for not preparing her for how big the world really is, i.e. ‘raised wrong’.
But Joyce has a lot of kindness and empathy in her, and the ability to grow and learn. So some parts of her were ;raised right’. She just has to learn which parts those are, and which parts she’ll have to outgrow.
I love Sarah and Joyce’s relationship. There’s a lot of cynicism on Sarah’s part (for very good reasons, and honestly, will probably be very helpful when she’s a practicing lawyer), and a lot of naivete and fumbling from Joyce, but there’s also a lot of trust between them at this point, and genuine affection despite their differences. They’ve ended up being a good match for one another.
Well, since Joyce is quoting Wallace Shawn’s character, Vizzini, in The Princess Bride, as is the Alt-text, I’d say it’s referring to neither Dorothy nor Amber, but Joyce instead.
Actually, the alt-text is quoting Wesley’s line to Vizzini just before he responds with “Wait till I get going!”
Did I ever mention that ‘The Princess Bride’ is one of my favorite guilty-pleasure movies?
Ed Rhodes
A “guilty pleasure” is a movie you KNOW is garbage, but you enjoy it any way.
The Princess Bride is in no way, shape or form any sort of “guilty pleasure!” It’s a great film and you have every right to enjoy it. (It is, in fact, that very rare occurrence where the film might actually be a little better than the book! The book is a classic, but tends to meander. The movie is tight.)
111 thoughts on “Rigorously”
Doctor_Who
“This is Joyce-Lo. We raised her wrong on purpose. As a joke.”
chris2315
Face-to-foot style! How do ya like it?
Emily
I’M FALLING! YOU’RE FALLING! WE’RE FALLING! MIIIIIIIKE
Kyrik Michalowski
“I’m bleeding, making me the victor.”
Bogeywoman
Weeoeeeoweeee
A. Gorilla
My finger points!
Jimi
My nipples look like milk duds!
Chris
Triangle grin intensifies.
Stephen Bierce
In a moment it’ll be so bright people will mistake it for a UFO.
Khyrin
No, it’ll just infect Sarah. She won’t be able to properly grump for a week!
Mra
I think that last panel is the most tender I have ever seen Sarah.
Lumino
It might tie with the “Little Sister” comment when she got Joyce home after nearly being raped by Roofie McScarredFace
Bicycle Bill
I think that ever since meeting Joyce Sarah looked upon her as a ‘little sister’, and the incident Lumino refers to is where she finally accepted and acknowledged the fact – especially when you look at some of the sniping and bantering back and forth, which is also in keeping with what one finds among siblings, real or self-appointed.
BBCC
Welp, too late to put that genie back in the bottle, Sarah. Your own fault whatever happens next. 😛
Bogeywoman
Including the sudden influx of joyrah fan art I’ve just been inspired to make in 2-30 years time
RacingTurtle
Yeah, I’ve never shipped Joyce/Dorothy* but today I discovered I could totally go for an alternate universe where Joyce/Sarah is a thing
*(apparently, despite Joyce’s theoretical bisexuality mirroring my own non-theoretical bisexuality, I am very invested in Straight Joyce? Like, for Becky’s sake? It wasn’t you, honey, she just isn’t into ladies! …If I thought this about real people, it would be uncool, but they’re fictional so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
Liam
Oh my god please do
do you have an account that you post that stuff on because please god enable me, I am addicted to cute gay romance
Lingo
Comic up early, or is my clock just behind? Anyway, for Dorothy, her worser impulses include using the word “worser”.
Lingo
Huh, my clock says 11:59. Whatever.
Chris
The server clock was adjusted a week or two ago. Posting time went from six minutes late to four minutes early.
Jamie
Oh, NTP drift. How you dog my steps.
Sirksome
I don’t know why but them all waxing philosophical on garbage roof feels like then end of story moment to me. Maybe with a stinger for the next chapter. Just saying.
BBCC
We have at least one more book coming, if you believe the archive tab anyway.
Sirksome
Yeah I believe there’s still more story to tell, but this does feel like a big bookend to not just this story but an entire era of DoA to me. Most if not all of the characters have changed and are in a significantly different and in my opinion better place in their lives.
BBCC
Oh, for sure! The story’s going to take big turns. Everything’s changed.
Foxhack
Each book chapter is about three months of strips, according to the archive. This chapter started on June 24, and it’s August 30.
I know it feels like an end of book moment, but we still have about three weeks to go. And we still haven’t seen the repercussions of Blaine’s death on his family, or his former employers…
Merbrat
They *usually* end with 2 or 3 characters in their beds, thinking, reading, etc.
Sporky
Well, it IS going to be the 10th anniversary of the first Dumbing of Age strip in less than two weeks.
Jo Giggles
Oh gosh. Willis wouldn’t just end it on a cliff hanger with us all going, “damn you, Willis” would he!?
Norah
Did everyone who’s thinking the strip is about to end happen to notice he has strips done through December 27? So even if it does end, we’ll at least have about four more months.
TheStranger
I thought he’d said in the past he intends to do this strip for yeeeeeeeeeeeeears yet. Because twins to put through college, yo.
Inscrutablejane
I have three words for you:
Soggies may rule
Needfuldoer
IIRC Willis tweeted a while ago that the next book/chapter will be kind of a “soft reboot”, and that makes sense. We’ve seen some of the bigger conflicts of the first 10 years resolve (or start wrapping up), but there’s still unresolved plot threads. All the new art is winter-themed and there’s snow everywhere, which hints at a bigger time skip than we’ve seen before.
clif
Surely we wouldn’t miss Halloween.
thejeff
It does seem like it’s happening, unless it’s a big meta fakeout. I’m not entirely sold on the idea. There’s so much in play a big time skip is going to be weird.
HeatherJean
So, soft reboot on the tenth anniversary? 9/10/20?
DSL
Book the whateverth: “Sometimes I feel like I was raised wrong, as a joke.”
AbelUndercity
Hell, I want it on a t-shirt.
TrueVCU
This is the most toxic wholesomeness I’ve ever seen
Reltzik
Mmmmmaybe?
…. I think maybe this is the most wholesome toxicity I’ve ever seen, and Billie/Ruth is the most toxic wholesomeness?
Chris Phoenix
Seriously. As toxicity goes, if Billie/Ruth are alcohol, this is like, not even marijuana.
And for wholesomeness, I’d say this even beats … hmm… Jacob taking Joyce to his church? Naaah, silly comparison, never mind.
(Disclaimer: Last I saw, marijuana may be significantly harmful to brains under 25 years old, which seems ironically unfair.)
Dave Van Domelen
Sarah needs to discover that “Stockholm Syndrome” was largely made up by a guy who twisted the facts of the case study because he couldn’t accept that the hostage in question (a woman, of course) was right and the cops were wrong. Clearly, her disagreement with the police was because she’d formed an unhealthy psychological bond with the criminals, not because the cops were about to get everyone killed out of stupidity.
March
That really was a fascinating case when the details became more publicly known, in the sense of “How To Completely Fail at Your Jobs”. It was bungled from start to finish by a staggering combination of incompetence and arrogance.
BBCC
I’ve never heard of this! Would you mind explaining more?
clif
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norrmalmstorg_robbery
Jamie
Scanning the Wikipedia article on Stockholm Syndrome, I’m gonna highlight:
1) there’s a 2020 book that makes thes same accusation Dave is making, so it’s a likely source for his claims;
2) the DSM has never included it, but not necessarily because it’s not a thing;
3) the Wikipedia article is really badly designed, having decided to drop an entire section on child psychology into the mix to give the entire concept some semblance of weight.
As a completely untrained rando, I’m inclined to agree with Dave. It’s caught on in popular imagination, but there appears to be no real scientific basis for it, and certainly no rigorous definition for it.
CJ
Sometimes, stuff gets called after events that do not really fit in the end.
There a a number of reported cases of kidnapping victims cooperating with their captors (Patty Hurst comes to mind) and, you know, it sounds like a survival strategy that might even make sense under certain circumstances. Circumstances most people fortunately never encounter.
BootsyBoom
I was going to make a comment similar to Dave’s if he hadn’t, so here’s the relevant excerpt from the aforementioned book See What You Made Me Do: https://twitter.com/jessradio/status/1252579349187817473
March
Well, for one, none of the hostages married their captors. One of the men did have many admirers after he was sentenced, because he was considered rather good-looking and the case was well-publicized. The woman he became engaged to while in prison was a woman who wrote to him while he was in prison. That’s actually not even that interesting. It happens with a lot of famous criminals.
The entire situation was just….not well handled. The hostages did sympathize with the robbers, but when looked at without the romanticism and urban legends that sprang up around the case, it becomes much more cut-and-dried. While they did threaten the hostages, the hostages said the robbers never actually did much to them. They were more afraid of law enforcement, who kept escalating the situation, to the point that they overtook the bank by using tear gas. And the robbers weren’t criminal masterminds. They were criminals, yes, but they were pretty much just average men. While holed up together, the two parties developed a rapport, is all. And one woman did have a friendship with one of the robbers afterwards.
There was no “falling in love with their captors”. There was no “insanity”. It was some hostages being critical of how law enforcement handled it, and not believing the robbers were the spawn of the devil. However, law enforcement was not looking good after the situation (the usage of tear gas, how long it went on, etc), and now the victims weren’t falling down on their knees praising them, so the reports got spun into “well obviously they just went crazy and we are Right and Infallible”. If I remember right, the doctor who coined the term never even spoke with the hostages beyond one conversation.
Jabberwocky
Joyce has seen Kung Pow?
fire_daws
Big Sis.
Bagge
and little sis <3
Badgermole
No Dorothy, the ‘rona doesn’t exist in DoA and we have to keep it that way…
Kyrik Michalowski
D’aww, it’s so nice to see Sarah and Joyce being cute together. Albeit in small doses, I like Sarah to be 80% sarcasm and 20% realness.
Also the fact that Joyce thinks she might have been raised wrong is interesting. I wonder just how much she’s going to push in the opposite direction?
March
I feel as though Joyce has come to the realization that the narrow world-view she was raised with is so far from reality, it might as well have been like being raised in a box. Everyone seems to just know things she doesn’t. Parents are not infallible, divorce is not that bad, sex is a personal choice, etc. Things most eighteen-year-olds already know, she’s just learning, and I imagine she’s not only angry with her parents for everything that’s happened, but for not preparing her for how big the world really is, i.e. ‘raised wrong’.
But Joyce has a lot of kindness and empathy in her, and the ability to grow and learn. So some parts of her were ;raised right’. She just has to learn which parts those are, and which parts she’ll have to outgrow.
Jo Giggles
^this
Yotomoe
If the screen doesn’t pan over to Walky and Amber aggressively playing tonsil Hockey…
Lingo
Heh, I was thinking the same thing.
Bagge
That seems just about right for how Danny’s night is going.
Jezi
…alright, I know y’all trade in snark, but I’ve got all kinds of warm fuzzies for Sarah letting herself have friends again.
March
I love Sarah and Joyce’s relationship. There’s a lot of cynicism on Sarah’s part (for very good reasons, and honestly, will probably be very helpful when she’s a practicing lawyer), and a lot of naivete and fumbling from Joyce, but there’s also a lot of trust between them at this point, and genuine affection despite their differences. They’ve ended up being a good match for one another.
DailyBrad
Sarah and Joyce sassing each other’s great.
JediMB
The Sarah and Joyce stuff is so, so cute. ?
The Coolest Child
It’s like a musical.
“I’m the one who hates all the people”
“I’m the one who renders that feeble”
“Together we’re the Roomies!”
HeinousActsZX
Just about ready to tie it up in a bow.
clif
I’m never sure if the alt-text is referencing Dorothy or Amber.
Bicycle Bill
Whoever it is, she is not one to be trifled with, that is all you ever need know.
Cholma
Well, since Joyce is quoting Wallace Shawn’s character, Vizzini, in The Princess Bride, as is the Alt-text, I’d say it’s referring to neither Dorothy nor Amber, but Joyce instead.
Bicycle Bill
Actually, the alt-text is quoting Wesley’s line to Vizzini just before he responds with “Wait till I get going!”
Did I ever mention that ‘The Princess Bride’ is one of my favorite guilty-pleasure movies?
Ed Rhodes
A “guilty pleasure” is a movie you KNOW is garbage, but you enjoy it any way.
The Princess Bride is in no way, shape or form any sort of “guilty pleasure!” It’s a great film and you have every right to enjoy it. (It is, in fact, that very rare occurrence where the film might actually be a little better than the book! The book is a classic, but tends to meander. The movie is tight.)