I keep thinking of The State, Episode 301, where the cast plan to go to the zoo “to watch monkeys do it”. Sorry for not linking to a video. Paramount has that sucker locked down.
If Becky’s belief of wearing a suit = male presenting = ‘liking men’ is taken at face value the solution to Becky’s problem is simple. Also wear a suit at the same time. Then it’d be gay so still queer just all the way around. This is the one true solution. I say this with no ulterior motives whatsoever.
Give it time, but yeah, you’re very correct to bring that factor up. It’s sometimes easy to forget that her beginning was as fundamentalist as Joyce’s was, and she carries a lot of baggage from that, too, same as she does. It’s just different in some ways in how it manifests, and one of them she’s still got is a lot of ideas of gender norms.
It’s really cool we’re getting to watch her deal with it – she’s basically convinced herself there’s nothing to deprogram herself from. I don’t mean her religion. It’s rather than there’s nothing more dangerous for the soul as going “yep, I’ve learned everything there is”, and she comes from such a small world…
she thinks that “different gender presentation on behalf of her partner” = “losing queer-points” like it’s a one-dimensional deal or the Vegan Police from Scott Pilgrim or some shit
was her gender-studies class ineffective, or is her indoctrination just THAT persistent? :0
I mean, Becky’s only like what, a couple weeks into her gender studies class? Too soon to call it ineffective IMO
Nymph
Literally. It’s also pretty fuckin hard to break out of indoctrination. She’s had a few months to try and undo 18 years of cult… we could cut her a lil slack here on the gender presentation stuff. Wrestling with it is how we learn things.
Charles Phipps
The thing is that it’s not her fundie brain that’s fucking her up here. It’s the fact that she’s having the thing she CHALLENGES the fundie brain with fucked with.
Fundie brain is “You’re a woman and meant to be attracted to a man.”
Resistance brain is, “You are attracted to women and that is how God made you.”
It’s now, “It’s not so simple as that.” That is messing with her Resistance brain.
Yumi
I think people are talking more about the structure of the fundie brain, which is still in place even in her “resistance brain” thoughts. There’s that fundie brain strictness going: Things must be ABSOLUTE. Questioning things is a THREAT.
Charles Phipps
One thing explained to me about autism was that they tended to have more black and white views of things. A neurotypical brain will often justify things that they’d normally think was absolutely wrong versus right when it beneifted them.
It made me think fundamentalists were neurotypical because they always find a way to justify things they want while Becky has a view of things being good or evil and sticking to it.
Yumi
I don’t think that’s…right. Honestly, the bringing in autism and neurotypical as an analogy makes me really uncomfortable, so I’m going to skip over that part, but I think aspects of black and white thinking are major in fundamentalism. It might be applied differently than you’re thinking– not always “This action is bad, so it’s bad when anyone does is” but “This person is good, so everything they do is good” (for leaders, a lot). Fundamentalists as individuals also *don’t* always find a way to justify things they want. As an organization, that’s probably different, but it’s also a different meaning of “wanting.”
I do hope that part of Becky’s coping mechanism is to try out saying something as farce, so she won’t be as afraid to examine it with nuance later. Like exposure therapy. That she’s completely in control of.
I mean…18 years vs a couple of weeks. Hell they might not have even gotten to the intersection of gender presentation and sexuality in the curriculum yet
I feel like Becky has some really odd brainworms here and is using what she’s learning to reinforce them rather than build an understanding of queerness that would let her beat them.
I mean Becky was raised with really strict ideas of sexuality and gender. And even through she rejected the content of that framework, the framework itself is still deeply embedded in her brain. When you’re raised with ideas of “all women must be ladylike and are attracted to big strong manly men”, and narrowly escaped the very real threat of conversion therapy, the idea of sexuality being fluid would be terrifying. She still hasn’t seen much of the wider queer community, idk if she knows about Butch4butch. Either way she probably thinks of finding any masculinity attractive with this new context as conceding ground to her old community. She’s got brainworms that we’re implanted there that have been slowly getting pulled out with outside help, and I think she needs a few long one on ones with Leslie to kill these ones in particular
Tell him I’m very sorry, he’s a he/him lesbian now. There’s no cure
Needfuldoer
oh no
Mark
Hm, thinking now of those 1940s cabaret singers wearing a suit jacket, tie, top hat, and matching short-shorts, with heels and silk stockings. Wonder what that was about?
Michael Steamweed
It’s me. I’m the friend. Apparently I’m a lesbian now. Well, dang, okay, time to read up on some stuff.
In reply to Duck and Dante at top of thread (no idea where this is gonna end up):
Yup. Very much so.
I own some (cheap) male dress shirts that are used exclusively for sexual purposes as though they were lingerie. Thrown on a blazer for full effect.
there’s def dozens of fanart of miku with diff looks so she’s versatile to be anything
but i imagine most ppl would associate flower with more queer vibes , tho there are also a lot of tgirl miku art with the colors and such
and the meika siblings(?) are canonically ‘free from gender’ so there’s that lol
Roborat
I usually get the various references, even though I am an old fart, but I drew a blank on this one. I had to look this one up, and I am still not sure. Are you talking about the vocaloid singer or something else?
LOL well nothing wrong with wearing what you want but i’d hope becky doesn’t panic too much. or come off as over compensating like “ok but the tie has to be the lesbian flag colors” or so lol (although been a while since they went shopping together. that said you could easily have some kinda pantsuit/female office wear or some kinda ‘oversized’/slightly loose unbuttoned blazer with no shirt underneath [depending on how comfortable you feel with it] that’d def give off an appealing look)
Becky’s obviously being silly, but it makes sense when you think about all of the ordeals she’s had to go through due to the world’s resistance to her being a lesbian.
Yes, bi/pan lesbians exist, but that one’s A. a point of contention in the wlw community that I already made my stance on pretty clear with the “exist” part, and B. something she probably doesn’t know a ton about, though I mean, she is at least gets that Ruth and Jennifer are bi and thought Joyce was being silly when she was hung up on that.
In any case, I hope she can talk to someone about this who may be experienced on the topic, though it’s tough enough as it is, her making queer friends in general, it’d seem.
Inb4 you get assholes trying to refute your second paragraph, a note to them: policing other people’s queer experiences, just because they don’t match *your* understanding, will never be progressive. If someone uses a harmless label that you don’t like, that just means *you* don’t have to use that label for yourself. Some people have complicated relationships to their gender and/or sexuality and/or romantic orientation, and that’s cool. Humans are so cool!
Aye. Becky had to throw out a lot of crap that she grew up with, or rethink how it applies to her, in order to be happy with herself.
Her actions are silly, and Carla’s understated joke in the end (is she feeling alright?) is exactly how I’m seeing this, but I 100% get her anxiety over it all. This is shit that she doesn’t want to have to question or confront, if only just because she’s been through way too much as it is right now.
I do like Dina’s comment, too, because it’s a good way to try to isolate what Becky’s concern is. She’s trying to figure out “is Becky concerned about not actually being a lesbian, or is she concerned about losing me?” and… well, sure sounds like she got an answer there :D.
235 thoughts on “Rock solid”
NGPZ
it seems if you cut the head off a fundamentalist talking snake, the body still lives
but hopefully not for too much longer
Dina, Charlie is right behind you
you know what to do! >:D
*plays “Kryptonite” by 3 Doors Down on hacked muzak*
butts
dina wearing a suit might be the queerest thing in this whole comic
Slartibeast Button, BIA
Having a “The Group” flashback now.
anon
non gender conforming/androgynous/gender fluid dina unlocked 8D;
Lysbeth
Butch Dina butch Dina butch Dina, we need butch Dina in our lives
anon
@lys honestly at this point she’s gonna make her own style like “dino butch” or something like that 8D;
Sirksome
Gender swapped Dina? Dino if you will. I think she’s approve.
True Survivor
Most people hold firmly their name’s current form, but I suppose she might let that go. You know get her “declension”.
Jennible
This presumes most people don’t pick a new name out of a hat.
Right?
…Just me then? >_>
Veronica
Took me a long while to figure out you meant Dino like Dinosaur and not Dino like Dino Spumoni.
“Eeeey, look at dis wise guy, thinks raptors don’t gots feathers. Badda binge, badda boom. Other Italian-American stereotype things to say. Fuggedabodit”
Needfuldoer
Now there’s a name I didn’t expect to see dropped in these comments!
I need to rewatch Hey Arnold! again…
Mark
Not Dino Flintstone?
Byron Orpheus
I keep thinking of The State, Episode 301, where the cast plan to go to the zoo “to watch monkeys do it”. Sorry for not linking to a video. Paramount has that sucker locked down.
AnonGrouch
If Becky’s belief of wearing a suit = male presenting = ‘liking men’ is taken at face value the solution to Becky’s problem is simple. Also wear a suit at the same time. Then it’d be gay so still queer just all the way around. This is the one true solution. I say this with no ulterior motives whatsoever.
AnonGrouch
Their wedding outfits not being dinosaurs wearing suits and top hats would be a tragedy.
NickG
Something like Davan and Vanessa?
https://somethingpositive.net/comic/the-wedding-album-pt-1/
Needfuldoer
She was about 2/3 the way there a bunch of chapters ago, with a collared shirt and tie under a vest.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/fancypantsy/
Sirksome
Were those actually false positives Joyce was sending?
HueSatLight
I think Becky’s still thinking about Joyce. I don’t think she’d be doing this over-the-top act if her insecurities were only about herself.
shadowcell
Dumbing of Age Book 15: Hey, Guess What, I’m Not a Lesbian!
Clif
But we already know it’s going to be Dumbing of Age Book 15: While Sitting on a Throne Built Out of the Bones of Acceptable Losses.
The alt text has never lied about this. Though I suppose there’s always a first time.
HueSatLight
There should be a formal so that the whole cast can be in tuxedos.
Slartibeast Button, BIA
Bottle Episode time!
Clif
Well, if you ignore all the obligatory flashbacks reusing old art.
Dante
Becky was so messed up by fundamentalism she can’t enjoy being butch4butch, smh :/
Sirksome
2 butch pairing is arguably gayer than just being regular lesbians.
Dante
It’s queerness squared, ‘course it is
DailyBrad
Give it time, but yeah, you’re very correct to bring that factor up. It’s sometimes easy to forget that her beginning was as fundamentalist as Joyce’s was, and she carries a lot of baggage from that, too, same as she does. It’s just different in some ways in how it manifests, and one of them she’s still got is a lot of ideas of gender norms.
Dante
It’s really cool we’re getting to watch her deal with it – she’s basically convinced herself there’s nothing to deprogram herself from. I don’t mean her religion. It’s rather than there’s nothing more dangerous for the soul as going “yep, I’ve learned everything there is”, and she comes from such a small world…
NGPZ
like, how this is happening to Becky is like, wow
she thinks that “different gender presentation on behalf of her partner” = “losing queer-points” like it’s a one-dimensional deal or the Vegan Police from Scott Pilgrim or some shit
was her gender-studies class ineffective, or is her indoctrination just THAT persistent? :0
Charles Phipps
I mean a lot of her gender knowledge is self-taught.
Slartibeast Button, BIA
She might have a fear that if any part of her new self-image slips, it will all slide away and she’ll end up like her mother. 8-({
RassilonTDavros
I mean, Becky’s only like what, a couple weeks into her gender studies class? Too soon to call it ineffective IMO
Nymph
Literally. It’s also pretty fuckin hard to break out of indoctrination. She’s had a few months to try and undo 18 years of cult… we could cut her a lil slack here on the gender presentation stuff. Wrestling with it is how we learn things.
Charles Phipps
The thing is that it’s not her fundie brain that’s fucking her up here. It’s the fact that she’s having the thing she CHALLENGES the fundie brain with fucked with.
Fundie brain is “You’re a woman and meant to be attracted to a man.”
Resistance brain is, “You are attracted to women and that is how God made you.”
It’s now, “It’s not so simple as that.” That is messing with her Resistance brain.
Yumi
I think people are talking more about the structure of the fundie brain, which is still in place even in her “resistance brain” thoughts. There’s that fundie brain strictness going: Things must be ABSOLUTE. Questioning things is a THREAT.
Charles Phipps
One thing explained to me about autism was that they tended to have more black and white views of things. A neurotypical brain will often justify things that they’d normally think was absolutely wrong versus right when it beneifted them.
It made me think fundamentalists were neurotypical because they always find a way to justify things they want while Becky has a view of things being good or evil and sticking to it.
Yumi
I don’t think that’s…right. Honestly, the bringing in autism and neurotypical as an analogy makes me really uncomfortable, so I’m going to skip over that part, but I think aspects of black and white thinking are major in fundamentalism. It might be applied differently than you’re thinking– not always “This action is bad, so it’s bad when anyone does is” but “This person is good, so everything they do is good” (for leaders, a lot). Fundamentalists as individuals also *don’t* always find a way to justify things they want. As an organization, that’s probably different, but it’s also a different meaning of “wanting.”
NGPZ
ah, is true
Leslie may be a Not Mother, but she ain’t a miracle worker 😐
spriteless aunty
I do hope that part of Becky’s coping mechanism is to try out saying something as farce, so she won’t be as afraid to examine it with nuance later. Like exposure therapy. That she’s completely in control of.
thejeff
This kind of thing is why I was sad Becky learned about Jocelyne offscreen. It would have been interesting to see her wrestle a bit with it
zee
I mean…18 years vs a couple of weeks. Hell they might not have even gotten to the intersection of gender presentation and sexuality in the curriculum yet
HueSatLight
Becky’s doing a bit, don’t take it for 100% face value.
S.R.
A lifetime’s worth of indoctrination will do that to you.
Cassie
I feel like Becky has some really odd brainworms here and is using what she’s learning to reinforce them rather than build an understanding of queerness that would let her beat them.
zee
I mean Becky was raised with really strict ideas of sexuality and gender. And even through she rejected the content of that framework, the framework itself is still deeply embedded in her brain. When you’re raised with ideas of “all women must be ladylike and are attracted to big strong manly men”, and narrowly escaped the very real threat of conversion therapy, the idea of sexuality being fluid would be terrifying. She still hasn’t seen much of the wider queer community, idk if she knows about Butch4butch. Either way she probably thinks of finding any masculinity attractive with this new context as conceding ground to her old community. She’s got brainworms that we’re implanted there that have been slowly getting pulled out with outside help, and I think she needs a few long one on ones with Leslie to kill these ones in particular
Charles Phipps
Becky proclaims she’s a LESSSSBIANNNNNN because it is her way of asserting her individuality to an uncaring world.
Becky just wants one thing she can rely on completely.
Now the people she loves are challenging that too.
AMagicalDuck
Being attracted to a woman wearing a suit and tie is like the most lesbian thing you can do
Dante
Love the vibe your gravatar gives to this Incredibly Correct Take.
Clif
Does that still follow if you’re a man?
Asking for a friend.
Dante
Tell him I’m very sorry, he’s a he/him lesbian now. There’s no cure
Needfuldoer
oh no
Mark
Hm, thinking now of those 1940s cabaret singers wearing a suit jacket, tie, top hat, and matching short-shorts, with heels and silk stockings. Wonder what that was about?
Michael Steamweed
It’s me. I’m the friend. Apparently I’m a lesbian now. Well, dang, okay, time to read up on some stuff.
Rose by Any other Name
In reply to Duck and Dante at top of thread (no idea where this is gonna end up):
Yup. Very much so.
I own some (cheap) male dress shirts that are used exclusively for sexual purposes as though they were lingerie. Thrown on a blazer for full effect.
NGPZ
right??? XD
can’t wait to see it!!!! eeeek!!!! ^^ <3
*stims in place SHO MUCH*
Yumi
It’s so good it’s made me cry before
NGPZ
lesbian + suit + tie
automatically made me think Hatsune Miku XD
Dante
……. Famously butch Hatsune Miku?
NGPZ
by default Miku’s always wearing a suit and tie, and was part of how I found out I was gay, so you tell me XD <3
Dante
I’m sorry fam. Not invalidating you, we just must have wildly different standards for what is a butch. Or a suit :’DD
NGPZ
ahahahhaa fair XD
anon
there’s def dozens of fanart of miku with diff looks so she’s versatile to be anything
but i imagine most ppl would associate flower with more queer vibes , tho there are also a lot of tgirl miku art with the colors and such
and the meika siblings(?) are canonically ‘free from gender’ so there’s that lol
Roborat
I usually get the various references, even though I am an old fart, but I drew a blank on this one. I had to look this one up, and I am still not sure. Are you talking about the vocaloid singer or something else?
anon
LOL well nothing wrong with wearing what you want but i’d hope becky doesn’t panic too much. or come off as over compensating like “ok but the tie has to be the lesbian flag colors” or so lol (although been a while since they went shopping together. that said you could easily have some kinda pantsuit/female office wear or some kinda ‘oversized’/slightly loose unbuttoned blazer with no shirt underneath [depending on how comfortable you feel with it] that’d def give off an appealing look)
Poyo
becky he/him lesbian arc ? ?
Suet
It doesn’t diminish by— Watching The Office doesn’t— …fudge it all again.
Shame there’s not a whole lotta people doing fanarts
DailyBrad
Becky’s obviously being silly, but it makes sense when you think about all of the ordeals she’s had to go through due to the world’s resistance to her being a lesbian.
Yes, bi/pan lesbians exist, but that one’s A. a point of contention in the wlw community that I already made my stance on pretty clear with the “exist” part, and B. something she probably doesn’t know a ton about, though I mean, she is at least gets that Ruth and Jennifer are bi and thought Joyce was being silly when she was hung up on that.
In any case, I hope she can talk to someone about this who may be experienced on the topic, though it’s tough enough as it is, her making queer friends in general, it’d seem.
ian livs
Inb4 you get assholes trying to refute your second paragraph, a note to them: policing other people’s queer experiences, just because they don’t match *your* understanding, will never be progressive. If someone uses a harmless label that you don’t like, that just means *you* don’t have to use that label for yourself. Some people have complicated relationships to their gender and/or sexuality and/or romantic orientation, and that’s cool. Humans are so cool!
Wraithy2773
Aye. Becky had to throw out a lot of crap that she grew up with, or rethink how it applies to her, in order to be happy with herself.
Her actions are silly, and Carla’s understated joke in the end (is she feeling alright?) is exactly how I’m seeing this, but I 100% get her anxiety over it all. This is shit that she doesn’t want to have to question or confront, if only just because she’s been through way too much as it is right now.
I do like Dina’s comment, too, because it’s a good way to try to isolate what Becky’s concern is. She’s trying to figure out “is Becky concerned about not actually being a lesbian, or is she concerned about losing me?” and… well, sure sounds like she got an answer there :D.
Cattleprod
Charlie and Dina escape the elevator via their ability to just BE at random places.
Nymph