Yeah, after but a semester at University, Joyce is clearly still operating within a moral schema informed by her Reactionary Christian upbringing.
It is one in which *any* deviation from a predesignated Path of Morality automatically means letting EVIL itself get a foothold in her soul.
Same basic principle with Becky and her fear of the prospect of not being able to call herself a “Lesbian”, as though it works like the Vegan Police from Scott Pilgrim or something.
Regardless of their differing stances on whether souls or gods exist, neither of them have *really* done away with their indoctrination but have merely repurposed it.
Devin
Yeah, that’s gonna take some time. One semester after ~17 years of heavy conditioning would be an awfully short turnaround time for the kind of seismic shift in mindset we’re talking about.
All things considered, she’s doing pretty okay, I think.
I have just accepted that I will always be wrong because I will always be out of date on the latest.
Felix T. Katt
I have accepted that I will always be wrong, because the human default settings suck. However, I have also accepted that I will always work to be better than I am now, and the way I am now is better than I was before.
It will always take a long time to be right, to be an informed, responsible participant in democracy for the sake of a more fair, just society.
By contrast, it will always take a much shorter amount of time to remain wrong but have your guilt mitigated regardless.
Stay woke, and may peace be with you.
S.R.
If you hover somewhere around “people should be allowed to do pretty much whatever they like as long as they’re not hurting anyone (who didn’t agree to some risk of being hurt), and I don’t have to understand something for the something to be okay”, you’re gonna be right on just about everything that matters. Whether you know the currently-considered-right words isn’t even remotely the important part. It’s the ol’ “better a redneck who expresses support for queer people using one or more slurs because that’s the language he’s aware of than someone who uses all the most up-to-date inclusive language to say that they think nonbinary people are faking and anyone who doesn’t want every possible surgery isn’t /really/ trans” situation.
Justice isn’t where we currently are, but what we DO and the direction we go.
Justice is our *continued* collective effort to make the world a better place.
DOING what we do for justice’s sake is upholding the principle, which is the very thing itself.
Clif
While any noun can be verbed, it can then no longer be adjectivized, only adverbed. You can justice, but only justice socially. It’s a structural thing.
think of it as a compound word, it’s not that “justice” is verbed and “social” then would be the adverb, or vice versa, “social justice” is the whole verb (“you’ve been social justiced”), you can hyphenate it if that helps
we do that with other compound nouns of this type, i could definitely see “red tape” being used as a verb as is (“they’re red taping the whole process”)
also remember speakers make the language, not the other way around, grammar rules are descriptive not prescriptive
this, languages are never really separate from the cultures who speak them
heck there are many instances in the real world where culture and countries beside each other use very majorly the same words and grammar but ardently confirm they speak different languages on account of social and political differences which are not always intelligible to outsiders
for instance the Serbo-Croatian language splitting up into Bosnian, Montenegrin, Croatian and Serbian after the breakup of Yugoslavia in the 1990s, on account of their speakers having very different and fiercely incompatible ideas on government and civics
Yumi
That said, social justice isn’t really used as a verb, and it’s definitely not *not* a noun. The phrasing used makes more sense figuratively.
Delavan
My minor philosophic quibble is this: Justice is a noun, but *goodness* and personal just-ness are verbs/action-oriented nouns. Because you do need a standard to aspire to – which is what Justice ultimately is. But goodness is about virtue, which is about aspiring towards that goal and evaluating progress made.
That’s independent from whether we actually know what Justice *is*, mind. Presumably our understanding of that standard must evolve as we, too, learn to be better and learn more about ourselves and our world.
That’s the phrase you’re looking for I think. And it won’t get you in semantic arguments, because ally is both a verb and a noun, and people will take it more how you mean it.
(I hadn’t ever heard “social justice is a verb”, but “ally is a verb” many times.)
I did first hear the “Ally is a verb” phrasing, but “is a verb” became it’s own turn of phrase, I assume off of that. (If someone said “Ally is a verb, not a noun,” semantically it would still bother me, but I would understand what was meant.. which I also did here.)
Joyce’s is gonna be real upset one day when she dies and discovers that not only IS there a God, but it’s David Willis and he put the entire archive of this comic on a public website where anyone can prove differently.
like there’s “hip”, and then there’s being informed on issues of social justice and how they affect the people we love and care about
from what I reckon it ain’t *quite* the same ballgame as keeping up with what youth are into today?
given what I’ve learned from the kids i help at my school’s Coding Club, they don’t even say “hip” anymore, and seem rather obsessed with these videos about singing toilets XD
Laura
Well, yeah, true.
Not everyone we love uses language the same way, so we do adapt from context to context… ?
Laura
Love / respect / care about / want to treat justly…
hehehehe yee, is a given on a multicultural frontier, especially the internet itself
many a diplomat and translator know that human languages/dialects are under no circumstances separate from the cultures which have informed their development over time and vice versa.
Oh, I’ve felt that, Joyce. Not with a sibling, but the mental gears grinding together as the old perception rams bow first into the iceberg of the new reality.
(I was gonna quote 1984 in reply, and maybe Ecclesiastes, about how “there is nothing new under the sun,” and how the present reflects the past as it has ‘always been’, even if the past seemed to tell us something different yesterday than it tells us today… …but then I realized commenting under the influence of migraine is likely not a smooth move…)
…So I’ll just go back to bed and keep mumbling.
Mumble, mumble, mumble…
Yes. Kids these days definitely use words like “cool” and “hip”. Joyce very much has her finger on the pulse of modern youth culture. I know this because I’m an adult over 30 who hasn’t hung out with anyone under 25 in years.
For what it’s worth, Joyce, if I had siblings, being excitedly referred to as their new brother would have delighted me when I first came out as trans. It certainly felt new and exciting to me!
I’m not trans myself but it does sound like a fun way of reconciling a person’s pre-transition past with their new presentation and existence. If they’re cool with it of course.
Hey Becky, I wonder if Joyce would be acting less insecure about your connection with her sister now if you hadn’t been smugging in her face for an hour or more.
I mean… I don’t think Becky was rubbing anything into Joyce’s face? She walked up, said hi, asked Joss about her life things Becky knew about (such as HRT) and otherwise was just. you know. Hanging out. I don’t remember any point where Becky said “haha, your sister likes me better, and thinks you are less trustworthy, neener neener!!!”.
Hm. I’m really having trouble reading her as smug in those strips, given that during most of her interactions with Jocelyn (and a bit later, Jocelyn & Joe) Joyce is completely off-panel and they’re having an entirely unrelated conversation – it’s kinda hard to show someone be smug towards someone who’s literally not visible for the reader. (When Joyce finally has a reaction shot, it’s towards something her sister says about Dina.)
Like, you specifically mention the trustworthy bit: it’s Joss who says that about Becky, who replies with a somewhat jokey “no I’m not”. Is that the ‘smugging’?
Strangely uncharitable read.
Jeremiah
Some people here have an habit to be very uncharitable towards certain characters, Becky being one of those. It’s weird.
Taffy
So, we’re ignoring the three-day marathon of Becky smacking Joyce to the ground and default dancing on top of her while she chanted “I’m your sister’s favorite, I’m your sister’s favorite, me and Dina are gonna fuck your sister later” and Jocelyne beatboxed in the background? Okay, I guess.
233 thoughts on “Segmented”
NGPZ
Joyce and so many others want so bad to think they’ve already arrived where they need to be.
But consider, that if everyone has already arrived at where they need to be, how could we as a society get anywhere?
In any case, Social Justice is a verb, not a noun
Amelie Wikström
I think it’s more she’s terrified of being wrong about anything. She has to learn to forgive herself.
NGPZ
Yeah, after but a semester at University, Joyce is clearly still operating within a moral schema informed by her Reactionary Christian upbringing.
It is one in which *any* deviation from a predesignated Path of Morality automatically means letting EVIL itself get a foothold in her soul.
Same basic principle with Becky and her fear of the prospect of not being able to call herself a “Lesbian”, as though it works like the Vegan Police from Scott Pilgrim or something.
Regardless of their differing stances on whether souls or gods exist, neither of them have *really* done away with their indoctrination but have merely repurposed it.
Devin
Yeah, that’s gonna take some time. One semester after ~17 years of heavy conditioning would be an awfully short turnaround time for the kind of seismic shift in mindset we’re talking about.
All things considered, she’s doing pretty okay, I think.
Amelie Wikström
I’ve thought about what I could say to this, but really I just want a like button to voice agreement.
stePH
Seconded.
WAhydrohead
I have just accepted that I will always be wrong because I will always be out of date on the latest.
Felix T. Katt
I have accepted that I will always be wrong, because the human default settings suck. However, I have also accepted that I will always work to be better than I am now, and the way I am now is better than I was before.
NGPZ
It will always take a long time to be right, to be an informed, responsible participant in democracy for the sake of a more fair, just society.
By contrast, it will always take a much shorter amount of time to remain wrong but have your guilt mitigated regardless.
Stay woke, and may peace be with you.
S.R.
If you hover somewhere around “people should be allowed to do pretty much whatever they like as long as they’re not hurting anyone (who didn’t agree to some risk of being hurt), and I don’t have to understand something for the something to be okay”, you’re gonna be right on just about everything that matters. Whether you know the currently-considered-right words isn’t even remotely the important part. It’s the ol’ “better a redneck who expresses support for queer people using one or more slurs because that’s the language he’s aware of than someone who uses all the most up-to-date inclusive language to say that they think nonbinary people are faking and anyone who doesn’t want every possible surgery isn’t /really/ trans” situation.
Chaucer59
No, technically it’s a noun phrase “Social” is adjectival and “justice” is nominative. No verbs present.
Yumi
People use “is a verb” to convey that something should be action-oriented. It’s not actually strictly about parts of speech.
NGPZ
The journey is the destination! B)
*plays “Creeping Shadows” by Shiro Sagisu on hacked muzak*
BarerMender
Right? I was going to ask how that could be a verb. I know NGPZ was trying to make a point, but I don’t see how to get there.
NGPZ
Justice isn’t where we currently are, but what we DO and the direction we go.
Justice is our *continued* collective effort to make the world a better place.
DOING what we do for justice’s sake is upholding the principle, which is the very thing itself.
Clif
While any noun can be verbed, it can then no longer be adjectivized, only adverbed. You can justice, but only justice socially. It’s a structural thing.
NGPZ
“Let the idea choose the words, not the other way around.”
— George Orwell
Needfuldoer
“Verbing weirds language.”
— Calvin
lur
think of it as a compound word, it’s not that “justice” is verbed and “social” then would be the adverb, or vice versa, “social justice” is the whole verb (“you’ve been social justiced”), you can hyphenate it if that helps
we do that with other compound nouns of this type, i could definitely see “red tape” being used as a verb as is (“they’re red taping the whole process”)
also remember speakers make the language, not the other way around, grammar rules are descriptive not prescriptive
NGPZ
this, languages are never really separate from the cultures who speak them
heck there are many instances in the real world where culture and countries beside each other use very majorly the same words and grammar but ardently confirm they speak different languages on account of social and political differences which are not always intelligible to outsiders
for instance the Serbo-Croatian language splitting up into Bosnian, Montenegrin, Croatian and Serbian after the breakup of Yugoslavia in the 1990s, on account of their speakers having very different and fiercely incompatible ideas on government and civics
Yumi
That said, social justice isn’t really used as a verb, and it’s definitely not *not* a noun. The phrasing used makes more sense figuratively.
Delavan
My minor philosophic quibble is this: Justice is a noun, but *goodness* and personal just-ness are verbs/action-oriented nouns. Because you do need a standard to aspire to – which is what Justice ultimately is. But goodness is about virtue, which is about aspiring towards that goal and evaluating progress made.
That’s independent from whether we actually know what Justice *is*, mind. Presumably our understanding of that standard must evolve as we, too, learn to be better and learn more about ourselves and our world.
walterw
i believe what @NGPZ is suggesting is you gotta social justice the hell out of this stuff
there, fully verbed for your convenience
Mark
If everyone is already where they need to be, why would we as a society want to get anywhere? We’d be leaving the best place.
Li
“Ally is a verb.”
That’s the phrase you’re looking for I think. And it won’t get you in semantic arguments, because ally is both a verb and a noun, and people will take it more how you mean it.
(I hadn’t ever heard “social justice is a verb”, but “ally is a verb” many times.)
Yumi
I did first hear the “Ally is a verb” phrasing, but “is a verb” became it’s own turn of phrase, I assume off of that. (If someone said “Ally is a verb, not a noun,” semantically it would still bother me, but I would understand what was meant.. which I also did here.)
Dave Van Domelen
Yep, she pulls all right.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Better than pulling alt-right.
Psychie
Either way she might need to check her tire alignment to ensure she’s moving in the direction she steers.
Doctor_Who
Joyce’s is gonna be real upset one day when she dies and discovers that not only IS there a God, but it’s David Willis and he put the entire archive of this comic on a public website where anyone can prove differently.
I don’t remember why I made this, but I think it’s what DOA characters see when they die.
Rose by Any other Name
10/10 image.
Also, an obligatory “I understood that reference.gif”
ValdVin
Indeed. Very neat stuff.
Opus the Poet
Doubleplus good+1! Who cares that “NewSpeak” is almost 80 years old at this point?
NGPZ
re: alt-text,
either that’s supposed to reference 4chan or Twitter has once again gotten even worse
dare I guess? ?
morhek
She’s deleting old tweets so that nobody can ever prove she was Problematic(tm) and Engage In Discourse with her.
Laura
Yo’, forget social media… I need everything I SAY to auto-delete after two DAYS.
(Psst. Joyce. It’s a trick question. “Hip” enough will always be a moving goalpost…)
NGPZ
like there’s “hip”, and then there’s being informed on issues of social justice and how they affect the people we love and care about
from what I reckon it ain’t *quite* the same ballgame as keeping up with what youth are into today?
given what I’ve learned from the kids i help at my school’s Coding Club, they don’t even say “hip” anymore, and seem rather obsessed with these videos about singing toilets XD
Laura
Well, yeah, true.
Not everyone we love uses language the same way, so we do adapt from context to context… ?
Laura
Love / respect / care about / want to treat justly…
NGPZ
hehehehe yee, is a given on a multicultural frontier, especially the internet itself
many a diplomat and translator know that human languages/dialects are under no circumstances separate from the cultures which have informed their development over time and vice versa.
morhek
Oh, I’ve felt that, Joyce. Not with a sibling, but the mental gears grinding together as the old perception rams bow first into the iceberg of the new reality.
Laura
(I was gonna quote 1984 in reply, and maybe Ecclesiastes, about how “there is nothing new under the sun,” and how the present reflects the past as it has ‘always been’, even if the past seemed to tell us something different yesterday than it tells us today… …but then I realized commenting under the influence of migraine is likely not a smooth move…)
…So I’ll just go back to bed and keep mumbling.
Mumble, mumble, mumble…
morhek
“All of this has happened before, and it will happen again.”
– Marcus Aurelius, “Battlestar Galactica”
Nono
Last panel Joyce is channeling a bit of Dorothy there, methinks.
Sirksome
Yes. Kids these days definitely use words like “cool” and “hip”. Joyce very much has her finger on the pulse of modern youth culture. I know this because I’m an adult over 30 who hasn’t hung out with anyone under 25 in years.
Daibhid C
She’s groovy to the max, dude.
Endplanets
Time is an illusion maaaaaaaan.
But suffering is also an illusion. So show up next Tuesday.
Slartibeast Button, BIA
Time is a myth concocted by the manufacturers of Space.
Needfuldoer
Time keeps on slippin’ slippin’ slippin’ into the future.
Opus the Poet
Gonna fly like an eagle
Into the sea
Etc. etc. etc.
Mark
Lunch time, doubly so.
daeranilen
For what it’s worth, Joyce, if I had siblings, being excitedly referred to as their new brother would have delighted me when I first came out as trans. It certainly felt new and exciting to me!
Sirksome
I’m not trans myself but it does sound like a fun way of reconciling a person’s pre-transition past with their new presentation and existence. If they’re cool with it of course.
anonymsly
Hey Becky, I wonder if Joyce would be acting less insecure about your connection with her sister now if you hadn’t been smugging in her face for an hour or more.
anonymsly
Specifically smugging about how Joyce’s sister likes her better and thinks Joyce is less trustworthy. Not sure how that got cut off.
Doopyboop
I mean… I don’t think Becky was rubbing anything into Joyce’s face? She walked up, said hi, asked Joss about her life things Becky knew about (such as HRT) and otherwise was just. you know. Hanging out. I don’t remember any point where Becky said “haha, your sister likes me better, and thinks you are less trustworthy, neener neener!!!”.
AMagicalDuck
I don’t know what comic you read but it was not one published on this website
DashWallkick
That’s how Becky handles everything, it’s not unique to Jocelyne.
Jeremiah
Again that is not a thing happened.
cachew sequel
Hm. I’m really having trouble reading her as smug in those strips, given that during most of her interactions with Jocelyn (and a bit later, Jocelyn & Joe) Joyce is completely off-panel and they’re having an entirely unrelated conversation – it’s kinda hard to show someone be smug towards someone who’s literally not visible for the reader. (When Joyce finally has a reaction shot, it’s towards something her sister says about Dina.)
Like, you specifically mention the trustworthy bit: it’s Joss who says that about Becky, who replies with a somewhat jokey “no I’m not”. Is that the ‘smugging’?
Strangely uncharitable read.
Jeremiah
Some people here have an habit to be very uncharitable towards certain characters, Becky being one of those. It’s weird.
Taffy
So, we’re ignoring the three-day marathon of Becky smacking Joyce to the ground and default dancing on top of her while she chanted “I’m your sister’s favorite, I’m your sister’s favorite, me and Dina are gonna fuck your sister later” and Jocelyne beatboxed in the background? Okay, I guess.
Jeremiah
That is not a thing that happened. Please don’t make stuff up.
elntil
I mean, it’s not like there’s a web comic that’s documenting her every word or anything.
RassilonTDavros
Dumbing of Age Book Fifteen: I Am Cool and Hip and Know All the Correct Things to Say in All the Correct Ways, and You Can’t Prove Any Differently!
Rolf of Many Doors
Subtext: Ah, yes, I understand.
Deanatay
I didn’t mislabel
Nobody saw me mislabel
You can’t prove anything
Amelie Wikström
Einstein made some great speeches about the illusions of time and consciousness. Brock, you are not Einstein.
AbacusWizard
No, no, this is brilliant. I should make a poster of it for my physics classroom.
Charles Phipps
Everytime Professor Brock appears, I want to see him and Dina get into an argument.
Amelie Wikström