214

Short-sighted
Posted on May 10, 2019 by David M Willis
This Saturday and Sunday, I gonna be in CANADA!  Come see me at TCAF (Toronto Comic Arts Festival) in, you know, Toronto!  I'll be at Table 248, Second Floor of the Toronto Reference Library.  I'll have books!  I'll have magnets!  I'll have prints!  I'll have an everlasting need to visit locations filmed in Short Circuit 2! my trip to canada funded in part by a grant from the greater columbus arts council

214 thoughts on “Short-sighted”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    =|

    define “good”

    …and “person”

    …….and “a”

    1. Reltzik

      “Is” also requires definition.

      1. Freemage

        Found Bill Clinton!

        1. Bickendan

          Oh good, I need this alto sax countersolo covered. It’ll be a great backup to this alto clarinet solo.

  2. Doctor_Who

    “That being said, I personally would avoid visiting the planet Vormir with her.”

    1. JessWitt

      Nah, Carol would have to toss her Fox News cable subscription for that.

    2. Dean

      She would never giver up Caucasian Jesus!

  3. Stu

    Yeah – two beat panels in response to a question tend to be a better answer than whatever follows it.

    1. ValdVin

      Speaking of “beat”, you beat me to it by seconds. Good on ya.

  4. ValdVin

    Those two silent panels with Jocelyne speak volumes.

    1. Catman

      It’s like “she… Uhhhhhhhhhh… Weeeeeeelllll”

      1. Bagge

        “Good can mean several different things in different contexts… um… LEGALLY speaking a case could be made that…. eh…. if you follow the strict meaning um… there are….

        her cookies are good?”

        1. Jamie

          Is she good like a Christian would mean?

          … wait.

  5. Axel

    I really like this one and the honesty. I hope Joyce gets to talk about leaving church early with Hank and Becky.

    1. Axel

      and I didn’t notice her t-shirt or undershirt was pink until just now but I like it.

      Also @ Willis, on mobile I’m getting ads that are making it so that even if I zoom in to prevent fat fingering it, I can’t post non reply comments anymore.

      1. Yumi

        Yeah, the ads both on the computer and on mobile have gotten really aggressive as of yesterday. Obviously the impact is worse on mobile, but I hope both can be addressed.

        1. King Daniel

          I was wondering what the deal with all those ads were.

      2. Catman

        Same, but there’s a very tiny x on the far right you can press to get rid of it.

        1. Jon Rich

          If only the far right came equipped with such an “x”….

        2. Catman

          Yikes

        3. Arian

          ROFL!

        4. ǝ snow ʍousɐ

          +5

  6. BBCC

    I’d like to think so too, Joss, but I saw Carol when the chips were down with Becky and I was not impressed.

    I can’t blame her though – I’d want to think the same of my mother.

    Goodness is something you do, Joyce, and everybody has to keep their own account on whether someone’s balanced out the good things they did with the bad things they did because morality is subjective. Which is…unhelpful in a time like this, but you’ll get there.

    1. Yumi

      I think sometimes, too, when we really want to believe someone’s good, we set the required intensity of the situation as high as we can. Like, “Yeah, Mom was shitty to Becky, but if Becky were in immediate physical danger…” Or, more for this situation, “Yeah, Mom was shitty to Becky, but maybe… if the situation was with one of her own kids, she could come around.”

      But we don’t often have a lot of data for situations of that intensity, so we fill in the blanks with what we’d like to believe, or we do have data but we amend the fictional situation more in response.

      It’s just sad seeing them dealing with that wanting.

      1. BBCC

        Like, it’d have to be worse than a trusted family friend pointing a loaded gun in her youngest child and only daughter’s face because Joyce told Carol about that and rather than demanding his head on a pike, she made waffly excuses for Ross.

        1. BigDogLittleCat

          That scene damned Carol in my book.

          The man pointed a gun at her child. A gun. At her child.
          Most mothers I know, Ross would need police protection after that.

        2. BBCC

          I’m not a mom and don’t ever plan to be because I don’t enjoy being in charge of kids, but I think even *I* would demand Ross’ head on a pike if he pointed a un at my friends’ kid.

        3. Fox

          Exactly, that’s less dependent upon being a decent mom and more dependent upon being a decent human being.

        4. BBCC

          Pretty much.

        5. SillyGoose

          But he’s white and has such a promising future. It would ruin his life yada yada yada.

        6. begbert2

          He was in his forties and had no neck. Futures don’t [i]get[/i] more promising than that!

        7. CarmeN ClemonS

          Point of order: Only daughter she knows about. Jocelyne doesn’t trust her enough to reveal that she actually has two daughters. Which says a lot, doesn’t it?

        8. BBCC

          Yes, absolutely true.

        9. The Guy from That Thing

          *only daughter as CAROL understands it 🙂

          Just want to make sure we give Jocelyne her due!

        10. BBCC

          Trufax.

    2. Newllend(henryvolt)

      Yeah I guess it doesn’t help her track record that she sided with the guy who aimed a loaded gun at her only daughter and youngest kid.

  7. Stephen Bierce

    “You know how they say ‘don’t trust anybody over thirty’? In Hazzard County, that age is more like…SEVEN.”–The Balladeer on The Dukes of Hazzard

    1. m-m

      Niiiiiiiice

  8. Danielle

    oh fuck, that silence……

  9. Yumi

    Does the alt-text confirm Jocelyne as being 22, or is it a hint that we’ve been grossly misled about her character.

    I mean, the first seems a lot more likely, but

    1. ShinyNeen

      Yeah, wondering about that too. If Jocelyne’s no more than 4 years older than Joyce (which is perfectly believable), then I imagine she was quite young when she was fighting for her and Joyce’s right to enjoy Halloween…

      1. Yumi

        I wouldn’t figure Jocelyne has being more than five years older anyway, so either way that’s still young. I am going to amend my mental timeline to her being four years older now, though.

        1. Needfuldoer

          I always figured 4 or 5 years older, since she’s already graduated, but not that much older because of that flashback bonus strip.

          According to Joyce, John is “by far” the oldest and has been out of the house almost as long as she can remember. That suggests a bigger age gap between him and Jordan than between Jordan and Jocelyne.

          Joyce: 18
          Jocelyne: 22-23
          Jordan: 26-27?
          John: Early to mid thirties

        2. thejeff

          That sounds about right.
          If the Jordan incident occurred in or around college, that would have put Joyce in the 10-13 range when it happened and that’s young enough to get the “when you’re older” treatment without too much resistance. At least in their kind of household.
          Joycelyne almost certainly knows though. Much harder to keep whatever it was from someone in their late teens.

      2. Greebs

        To be fair, by ‘fighting’ it’s perfectly possible it was mostly just pointing at John and Jordan and playing the favouritism/it’s-not-fair-you-let-them-do-it card, which is pretty age neutral, as childhood arguments go…

      3. Andrew_C

        I can’t remember where, but I recall it was mentioned that there was a large gap between the 2 eldest and 2 youngest siblings.

  10. not someone else

    That’s a very long way of saying “no”.

    But then Jocelyne is clearly still trying to love her Mom, not realizing she’s already decided Mom can’t be trusted with basic life and death issues, even if she can be dealt with on smaller things.

    1. thejeff

      I think Jocelyne knows damn well Mom can’t be trusted with basic life and death issues – like her trans daughter.
      But yeah, it’s a hard thing to struggle with or admit out loud.

      1. MM

        Also a hard thing to have to tell your little sister who’s desperately hoping for a yes.

    2. Jamie

      It’s also not super cool to say, “Mom is a terrible human being,” to your little sister.

  11. BassBone

    Oh Joss…

    Gosh I hope she can come out someday.

  12. newllend(henryvolt)

    I feel for these two right now, I feel like Jocelyn desperately wants to believe what she says in the last panel is true and as much as we rag on Carol you still got to understand from Joyce and Jocelyns point of The View.

    Think about your own mother who you loved and raised you, then imagine after growing up and growing out of your child like naivete you start to get disillusioned about who they really are. Then imagine struggling with the idea that maybe they might be a bad person…. would you believe it that easily or would you rather want to hold out hope that when they need to make a right choice they’ll pull through?

    1. Nobody

      From personal experience it took me a while to realize my mother was fallible but when I did it was pretty easy to accept she was an awful person

      1. Miri

        Joyce truly thought her mother was perfect right up until she stated her intent of bragging about her daughter not being racist, then acted like Dorothy had Hellspawn-leprosy because she’s an atheist. Poor kiddo tried to stop growing as a person in case it meant her parents wouldn’t love her any more a little while back (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/vacuum/). Her dad demonstrated new depths of fab to her, but between her mum siding with Becky’s father over her, and blaming a child for having her parent hunt her with his gun…

      2. Shadlyn

        So much sympathy for Joyce here: It’s taken me years, because my mom is loving *to me*. And it took a while to realize that treating *me* with love is not *being a good person.* So much sympathy for the sisters, here.

    2. Seregiel

      I left my dads in my teens and I live half way across the country from the other half. This isn’t just a situation of how one is raised but also a personality type. It’s a lot easier if you’re independent inclined and head strong from the get go. You lose a lot of the what if, respect for authority, et. That might hold you back.

  13. Catman

    Ooooo Big yikes. Yikes

  14. Nono

    Oof, the decision whether to be honest or not completely crushing your baby sister’s image of their parental figure.

  15. Threshold

    Well, it depends on what your definition of “is” is.

  16. Some1

    Well Joyce the truth is mom is actually the reincarnation of Xanthomorpapias the unborn one, who has existed since the dawn of time and who’s many grasping hands born of blood reach into the mind of man. Soon her true spawn will arrive and all those who do not worship her many heads will be eradicated.

    But she does make good cookies.

    1. Doctor_Who

      Although, in deference to her origins in the 777th pit of the Nightosphere, they do contain raisins.

      1. King Daniel

        You say that like it’s supposed to be a bad thing.

        1. Some1

          Is it weird I like oatmeal raisin cookies, but I don’t really like raisins? A raisin by itself its just depressing.

        2. BarerMender

          My mom used to make chocolate chip cookies, except with raisins instead of chocolate chips. I loved those, but eventually noticed she only made them if I was going to be home for Christmas. No one else in the family would eat them.

        3. Slartibeast Button, BIA

          We had a big raisin flamewar on the QC Patreon a while back.

        4. ShinyNeen

          Hmm. You wouldn’t happen to be from the Nightosphere, would you?

        5. King Daniel

          Well, I do have an affinity for the quiet and dark hours of the “day”…

        6. Kinoko

          Anti-raisin folks are a weird bunch.
          Do you… not even look at your food before you eat it? How do you not notice the clear visual and textural differences between raisins and chocolate before you take a bite? Pay attention to the world around you!

        7. foamy

          It’s not that we don’t spot the raisins, it’s that you had the opportunity to’ve used chocolate chips instead and *didn’t*. Thus, a betrayal.

        8. Seregiel

          It helps me not eat ALL the cookies. Half the batch gets chocolate (preferably dark) and half gets raisins. That way my husband inhales half of them before I even consider if it’s worth pulling out raisins for more oatmeal cookie goodness.

    2. Indiana Bones

      And besides, the endless shifting mouths of her writhing form end up making these kickass eldritch harmonies when she sings Beyonce covers

  17. Bagge

    The truth can hurt you.

    Granted, so can a blunt object swung at your head by some sort of neanderthal in a dark alley. But all things considered, I’d take that over the truth any day of the week.

    The truth was that I had followed my client’s case to a pretty seedy place where I had asked some pretty seedy questions of some pretty seedy characters. Apparently, one of them had been less than charmed by my line of inquiries, and opted to registers the grievances via the tried and true method of “Goon with tire iron”.

    “Step off this case!”, said goon growled, and I just managed to roll to the side before the tire iron struck the spot where my head until recently had been.

    “But I’m just getting started,” I panted and crawled into temporary shelter among the other trash in the end of the alley. “Your boss DO know where Mullins is hiding, right? Why else would she send you to play xylophone on my head?” The goon flung away the trashcan I was hiding behind with one fist, as large as a small construction vehicle.

    “Maybe she just doesn’t like you that much,” the goon drawled as she one-handed dragged me out of my hiding hole. “Maybe she finds you as annoying as I do.”

    See, the truth hurts.

    “You are wounding me,” I said, slithering out of my trenchcoat still in the goon’s grip and down on the pavement. “Just as we were finding a professional report you had to go and make it all personal.” I took a few measured steps out of the alley. The goon followed, leering.

    “Yeah, how about I show you ‘personal’? You really want to know why my boss won’t give up Mullins? Thing like that would grate on THEIR professional report.” I didn’t like the sound of that.

    “What are you saying? That Mullins…”

    “…would perhaps not be as good a person as you’d hope, little snoop. Probably best for you if you never find him – you’d be pretty disappointed if you did.” And she lunged at me.

    Or rather, at the spot where I had been just a moment before I flung myself out in the street, grabbing the railing of the tram that just came around the corner. Good ol’ number three – faithfully seventeen minutes behind schedule. The goon howled in rage and considered running after me, but we were turning downhill and the tram quickly picked up speed.

    I calmly left the platform and found a seat, ignoring the dirty looks the tram conductor gave me.

    I had much to ponder and none of it good. Mostly I wondered what I would tell my client. I was hired to dig up some dirt. Killing her heroes was another thing altogether. I did not look forward to breaking that news. But then, she would have known it would be bad – she wouldn’t have come to me otherwise.

    My name is Jocelyne, and that’s the truth. Not everyone knows that. Not everyone can handle it.

    #JocelyneNoir

    1. Some1

      Jeez i just realized its been literal months since I wrote an installment of Dungeons and Dumbing.

      http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/01-flyin-to-the-red/fights/

      Maybe I should finish that.

    2. King Daniel

      And the story continues…

      “The goon flung away the trashcan I was hiding behind with one fist, as large as a small construction vehicle.”

      …alright, is the trashcan supposed to be as large as a small construction vehicle, or the goon’s fist? Either way, I’m now not so much picturing a simple “goon” as I am picturing someone practically building-sized. 😛

      1. Bagge

        I said it was a SMALL construction vehicle 🙂

        1. King Daniel

          All the same…unless it’s “small” even by hobbit standards or somethin’. 😛

    3. ShinyNeen

      Ooh, Bagge fanfiction! Yay, some levity after this heavy comic!

      … Oh : (

      (well written as always, though!)

      1. Bagge

        I can’t let things go Joycelyne’s way, can I? What sort of noir detective would she be if she didn’t end up landing in the trash during a fistfight in an alley 🙂

        Thanks so much! Have have WAY too much fun.

    4. Illithid

      …a professional rapport…

      But good work. Engaging, and you caught me with the genderf**k on the goon.

      1. Arian

        Ah, you said it before me.

      2. Bagge

        Ah, thanks. I hack these things together at breakfast so lot of small error slink through.

        I’m a firm believer in equal opportunity gooning.

    5. Arian

      The word is ‘rapport’. I wouldn’t comment, but I had to read it several times before I realised what you meant.

      1. Roborat

        There are a few cases of “wrong word used”. I assumed it was autocorrect, and they made the sentence more entertaining anyway.

        1. Bagge

          Nah, not autocorrect. My approach to spelling is to aim for a word that sounds about right, and that usually ends up a bit hit and miss.

          But as you say – half of the time it just adds to the madness. Longtime readers of Joycelyne Noir remember the diapered chipmunks 🙂

    6. Jhon

      Saved for great justice!

      1. Jhon

        … diapered … Wait, what?

        1. Bagge

          🙂

          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/frame/#comment-1107589

  18. timemonkey

    Yeah, that means ‘no’ , Joyce, sorry.

  19. Fart Captor

    The heartbreaking part is that I can’t tell whether Jocelyne is lying to herself, trying to be gentle on Joyce, or hiding what she really thinks about Carol because she still isn’t sure how much she can trust Joyce

    All of the possibilities lead to sadness

    1. Fluffywolf

      My best guess is the last two.

    2. Xespera

      I really think after everything with Becky that Jocelyn is more trusting of Joyce. Not ready to come out yet, but… closer. She’s found a family member that’s more on her wavelength, and that matters.
      I’m really getting a “Trying to lie to herself but knows it isn’t true, deep down, while also trying to let Joyce hold on to the relationship she has now, without getting in to things” kinda vibe. On some level, it doesn’t feel like there’s anything else she could say there

    3. regina phalange

      I think she’s being honest, and that’s why she hasn’t come out to her parents (or even hinted at having different beliefs)—because she’s rather keep thinking that her mom would do the right thing when it came down to it (I.e. when it came to her own kids) than have proof that she would NOT.

    4. thejeff

      I’d go with a tangled confusing mess of all three.

    5. Seregiel

      It’s hedgespeak! Proof that all those alternative folk are witches! Hedge hedge hedge… witch!

    6. Regalli

      I’m thinking she’s trying to convince herself.

      These poor girls. I’m adopting them both.

  20. Bagge

    When it really came down to it, Carol didn’t do the right thing.
    http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/icebreaker/

    1. Bagge

      Hank did the right thing.
      http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/roadtrip/

      1. Bagge

        John didn’t.
        http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/settledown/

        1. Bagge

          Joycelyne did
          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/personal/

        2. Bagge

          Joyce – obviously – did
          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/pit/

        3. Bagge

          Pastor Landrum and Pastor Powers didn’t.
          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/landrum/

        4. Bagge

          Toedad…. um… wow… yeah, fudge that guy.
          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/deceptress/

        5. Delicious Taffy

          I can’t believe he died in that car crash and got devoured by a roaming band of raccoons. Becky’s been handling that very well, so far.

        6. Bagge

          Oh no.

          Such waste.

          So sad.

        7. Axel

          I don’t think pastor Landrum is good or did good, but I think he was better than youth pastor Powers.

        8. BigDogLittleCat

          Yeah, well, “youth pastor.”

        9. Emperor Norton II

          I mean, chlamydia is better than syphilis…

        10. Chris Phoenix

          When my ship is threatened by syphilis and chlamydia, I’ll attach myself to a long rigid object, tell others to put semi-firm stuff into some of their orifices, then try to slip between as quickly as possible.

        11. Bagge

          When it comes to the two of them, I don’t really care about HOW bad they are.

          I care about the fact that none of them met the lowest possible minimum requirement of being NOT-bad: Acknowledging Becky’s existence.

        12. Bagge

          Chris Phoenix: That’s quite a… vivid image you have there.

          I REALLY need a saucy version of Odysseen in my life.

          (I mean, half the stuff is VERY easy to make into innuendo anyway, and I’m pretty sure that’s how it was told in Homers days half of the time).

        13. Punaparta

          Chris Phoenix: I think you confused Scylla and Charybdis with the Sirens.

        14. Chris Phoenix

          Punaparta: You’re right, I did. Sigh.

  21. Fluffywolf

    oh fuck. I know that look. That’s the “if I move funny I’m going to say something so horrible it’ll make their mind crack like an egg, but I REALLY DON’T WANT TO” look.

    1. Bagge

      Also the “I’m so glad we are talking on the phone right now and you can’t actually see my expression”-expression.

      1. StClair

        Yes.

        1. Fluffywolf

          It is, in fact, also that expression.

  22. JA

    Well that’s a telling expression…

    1. Roborat

      More of a not telling expression.

  23. Xespera

    Well, this is the first one to make me cry in a while…

  24. Cool Guy

    That’s about as honest and painless an answer that can be given really. Good job Jocelyn, keep up that writing career!

    1. Meagan

      In order to be a good writer you have to learn empathy. Because you will have all these different characters doing different things and you have to understand their motivation. Otherwise they come off as one-dimensional villains.

      At least, that’s what Sarah Schulman says in her book “Conflict is Not Abuse”

  25. Fluffywolf

    I feel like at this point Jocelyne’s greatest strength and weakness is her fear of just ripping that band-aid off. On the one hand, I speak no hyperbole when I say it’s what’s kept her alive.

    On the other hand, well… what kind of life? Never expressing herself truly, always afraid, and giving Joyce the answer both of them _want_ rather than the one they need. Helpful as it’s been (you don’t just dump all that on someone like Joyce immediately) they’re going to learn the hard way very soon. Oh yes.

    1. Lori

      My experience was that a more gradual transition was better for my health and happiness. Ripping the bandaid off is great in theory, but hurts like hell- and quite literally can be traumatic.

      Humans aren’t meant to work through that much baggage all at once. You gotta go step by step, or you might not make it all the way through. Letting someone pull themselves along at their own pace will always be more effective than trying to force them to realize anything.

      It probably won’t work out that gently, but I think that, to be able to ask the question, Joyce knows the answer, even if she doesn’t want to admit it quite yet. She’ll get there.

      1. Fluffywolf

        Of course ripping the bandaid off is traumatic. You’re right on all counts.

        Except Jocelyne has a short supply of places she can ease herself in. And she’s going to have to come out someday. Joyce will have to admit what kind of person her mother is too.

        It’s traumatic, but I don’t see either Joyce or Jocelyne having options that aren’t.

    2. CJ

      As Joycelyn is no longer living with their parents, there will be areas of her life where she doesn’t need to pretend. And I guess not wanting to leave Joyce behind is one of the reasons she’s not out to her family yet.
      But, you know, this conversation might be the start of not losing Joyce when she does come out to her family.

      1. thejeff

        I think the start was their talk at lunch after John left, but this is another step.

  26. Reltzik

    Sometimes a Mullins is just a Mullins.

  27. StClair

    Jocelyne would like to think that. Who wouldn’t in her situation?
    But I think she knows. Still trying not to admit it, maybe, even to herself… but she knows. And that’s why she hides, and makes plans. For what will happen, someday.

    1. Fluffywolf

      Oh, she 100% knows. On some level, anyway. Why else would she clearly be taking so much time and effort to formulate an answer?

      1. vlademir1

        It’s quite possible Jocelyne just had an image of either of the upcoming holiday dinners at the Brown home flash through her mind with their potential fallout when Joyce, barely into college life, is already asking this question.

  28. Bagge

    Apart from all the serious stuff, I completely adore Jocelyne’s expression in the second panel.

    It’s the “Oh Joyce you are so unbelievably adorable in a patently hilarious way”-expression. Dorothy has been known to sport it at times as well.

  29. DailyBrad

    Joyce has been mulling over Mullins.

    Jocelyn, mood and a half right there.

  30. ShinyNeen

    What would it take for it to “really come down to it?” If when the time came, a person will always have a reason not to do the right thing, can you really say they’d do the right thing?

    Anyway, it’s a hell of a thing to have to consider whether one (or both) of your parents is a good person, and I can’t blame Joss for wanting to try to shield Joyce from that. Or herself, really.

  31. Jess

    We’d always like to think that.

  32. ESM

    No she wouldn’t

  33. brasca1

    This comes up so many times when I see the the things my family shares on Facebook.

    1. ian livs

      Oh geez, too true. :/

  34. Sandwich

    This whole story with Joyce has been very interesting.

    Also, coming from someone who knew Rich, I would say he definitely was a good person. Though all ‘good’ people make mistakes, and he made lots of those, he couldn’t do anything but apologize and ask for forgiveness and continue his trek forward.

    Anyway, I’m so invested in this story at the moment. 🙂

    1. Arian

      Oh, did you know him in person? I’m so glad to hear he was indeed a good person. That’s always been my impression, but as we’re seeing, people can be completely wrong about their heroes.

      1. Sandwich

        Yes, that’s true. Though from what Joyce has been conflicted about, in terms of if he would have been “disappointed” in her, thinking in this context and having known Rich, I don’t believe he would have ridiculed her. He made a clear distinction between helping friends and sharing in their struggles in faith, and down right judging them, and in the time I knew him, I never knew him to judge other people (though he made some sarcastic remarks to critisicm every now and then :D).

  35. MatsuoTanuki

    As was delivered in the well cultured tones of Stella Skarsgård: “It’s not a bad thing finding out you don’t have all the answers. You start asking the right questions.”

    Also, wow, there are so many Ruth gravatars… ^~^;

  36. Meagan

    Still working within the framework of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ people I see. Not that I’d expect her to have gotten past that while still so early in her awakening.

    1. Schpoonman

      I think it becomes more nebulous on the good side, but there’s a lot of really clear, cut, and dry ways of being a bad person, and they mostly involve hurting other people.

    2. Newllend(henryvolt)

      I see it like this, it’s true what they say that everything in life isn’t just black and white but everything isn’t particularly gray either. If there is a gray area mankind as a whole would be exactly that.

      It’s just really easy for any of us to sway towards either of the two ways.

  37. Schpoonman

    If nothing else, I’m really happy that Jocelyne is saying something is up. That Carol’s beliefs are wrong, and that Joyce is in the right. I think Joyce really needed to hear this from someone she trusts.

  38. BigDogLittleCat

    Compare this to July 28, 2013. Can we all appreciate how much Joyce has grown to be able to even think that question, much less say it out loud, to another person?

    I hope Jocelyn realizes that Joyce’s asking that means she is safe.

    1. ian livs

      She’s grown so much and I feel so proud.

  39. Nobody

    In short: no

  40. abysswatcher1993

    Asking this is like asking if BoJack Horseman is a good person. Sometimes you have to acknowledge your own evil if you want to become good and prove that Rachel is wrong.

  41. Lori

    Oof.

    I never had this exact conversation with my oldest sister, but I’ve had enough like it.

    The accuracy hurts, tbh.

  42. ian livs

    Oh gosh, I hope my younger brother *never* asks me that question. I will also go through those uncomfortable expression panels. (The answer to the question will be the same, I’m just not so diplomatic.)

    That’s a joke, though–my brother would never ask me that. He’s still in the tail end of his “I know everything” phase. 😛

  43. ian livs

    But also, that expression in the 2nd panel is super cute and I love her.

  44. FirePrincessLily

    Joyce: Is mom a good person?

    -Record Scratch-

    Jocelyn internally: You might have wondered how I got in this situation…

  45. Fox

    I certainly hope Jocelyn is right. On an unrelated note, I wonder if Jocelyn is interested in physically transitioning or if she’ll ever do so?

    1. Eldritch Gentleman

      That would require a lot of courage considering her family situation… then again I’m sure that once she gets her life in order Becky would be very supportive.

      1. Fox

        Oh I agree with you, I just wonder if her reason for not having done so yet is fear of her family, lack of funds, or some other reason. I have known a few trans women who chose not to physically transition because they lacked a desire to do so and were comfortable simply dressing and otherwise presenting as female without medical intervention. I’m just curious as an intersex man who transitioned to male in young adulthood.

        1. Slartibeast Button, BIA

          If I recall correctly she is trying to make it as a freelance writer, which means that lack of funds and little or no health insurance are likely important factors in her decisions.

        2. TemperaryObsessor

          I get the impression that her fear of family and lack of funds go hand in hand. Until she either gets her big break, gets another supplamental job , or wins the lottery she’s going to need her parents financial support. And I get the impression that the best she can hope for once she comes out will be having her parents monitor every dollar they give her to make sure its not used for something they deem evil.

        3. Fox

          TemperaryObsessor I would hope her dad would at least be supportive, but I can completely see her mom going all exorcist spinning head about it. It sucks being financially vulnerable

    2. Lena

      I mean she could easily be already? Comic hasn’t said anything one way or the other so far and you can hide HRT changes for a while.

      1. Fox

        True, but she likely hasn’t since she hasn’t come out yet and getting hrt first, would make her have to come out sooner than later.

  46. BenRG

    It is a child’s nature to want to believe the best of their parents.

    1. Delicious Taffy

      Only because we have no other choice.

    2. Madock345

      This is more generally known as Stockholm syndrome

  47. Eldritch Gentleman

    From Halloween to heavy weight questions in just two strips.

  48. Fox

    Also, given Carol’s reaction to Toe dad pointing a gun in not only his own child’s face, but her child’s, I’d say it’s pretty clear she is not, at this time, a good person. As I said above though, I would hope if Carol had been there, if she was really present for a bad situation and not just hearing about it after things turned out alright, that she would do the right thing.

    1. Delicious Taffy

      She’d probably have just joined in and browbeat Becky into getting in the car. Maybe that’s uncharitable, but I’m feeling especially misanthropic and today, so fuck ‘er.

      1. Fox

        Yeah, I wouldn’t put it past her to do so, but I still hope she wouldn’t because it’d be nice to see one crappy parent change their ways.

        1. BBCC

          Hank’s on that road, if it helps.

    2. TemperaryObsessor

      To me often times reactions of fictional characters in one situation can pair with reactions in other situations to make those actions either better or worse. For example trying to defend the guy who aimed a gun at your daughters head to your daughter could be a misguided attempt to teach forgiveness, but if she passive aggressively snipes his other victim its not forgiveness she believes in.

  49. NoOneLikesRobin

    Whoof. This is where Dumbing of Age really shines. Nothing else like this out there.

    Fingers crossed for a storyline where Joyce realizes her mom is not, in fact, a good person.

    1. Eldritch Gentleman

      The definite end of her childhood.

    2. BenRG

      FWIW, I think that Joyce realised this during her weekend at home along with Becky. It’s just that only now is she in the right mental and emotional place to start articulating this knowledge to herself.

  50. Keulen

    Those two beat panels make it pretty clear that the answer is no.

    1. BenRG

      To me, the white-background panel suggests Jocelyn was shocked by the question and realised that she didn’t like the answer that immediately popped into her mind. As I posted above, it is a child’s nature to want to think the best of their parents but Jocelyn also owes Joyce the truth at a time like this.

  51. Tomn

    Good and bad are such extreme concepts. Why not something more moderate?

    “She’s a jerk, Joyce Brown. A complete kneebiter.”

    1. Shadlyn

      Because she is more than a jerk. She actively devalues the lives of others and is ok with *potentially lethal harm* to them for nothing worse than being different.

      “Good” is a spectrum of gray with each of us good and bad in different ways; we wax and wane on different days. Some things aren’t neutral or gray. They’re just wrong. “Bad” if you will. If you choose those things consistently over time, you are…Bad.

      Redeemable? Sure, most are. But doesn’t mean you’re not bad now.

      1. Tomn

        Hitchhiker’s Guide isn’t super relevant these days huh?

  52. wynne

    One of those days where your heart really breaks for everyone on the page

  53. Joanna

    I’m only here to cheer for Jocelyne, my favourite character, getting more screen time. I mean, also, be sad about why and what she’s having to do and all, but mainly just cheering seeing her and seeing her be a fantastic big sister.

    I have a massive soft-spot for Joyce, and thus for the author-insert (damn you, Willis!), so that she is being comforted effectively and well by her big sister is equally tear jerking. I didn’t know how much I needed this sequence of events right now, but I totally did.

    Well done, Willis, you’re making a married grown adult, with children, nearly cry with teen-drama about children older than my own. Damn you, Willis!

    I’d comment on the plotline, but I am a hair’s breadth from messy sobs!

  54. mister gray

    oh no Jocelyne can see us and looked to us for an answer and frowned not finding one so he made something up.

  55. TheFlamingonator

    come back miss sakaki! D:

  56. Felgraf

    .. Oof. And knowing Joyce is also an author-insert..

    .. *EXTRA* oof.

    (Also, dang, that face Jocelyn makes is just amazing and perfect.)

  57. J

    On one hand, I’m glad I didn’t have to have this convo with my younger brother. On the other hand, I’m sad because the reason I didn’t have to have this convo with my younger brother was that he already knew the answer.

    Man, sometimes this comic hits hard. I mean, it means Willis is doing it right, which is great, but… whoof.

  58. Mr. Random

    Call the NRA and turn off basic cable.
    That’s a loaded question right there.

  59. DarkoNeko

    *furious eye twitch*

  60. Josh Spicer

    I realize people aren’t all good and all bad, but considering the definition of what those are seem to be more skewed the more the days go on, I’ma say this.

    It’s okay to say yes, Jocelyne.

  61. tirachokko

    oof @both of them.
    My younger brother has been asking me things along this line of thought recently as a high schooler, and honestly, there’s no good answer to give him. Our parents love us, but they don’t know what the best thing to do for us is pretty much ever. They can only make decisions based off what they think is right and judging by our reactions. This doesn’t mean they don’t fuck up a lot – it just means they’re human.
    Unrelated, but when he starts the convo, it’s usually right when I get him from school and that 22 minute drive home is one of the weirdest straight faced internal battles to have against yourself lmao

  62. ziggy78eog

    It is never easy to think of a close, loved one, especially a Family member, as anything other than a good, decent, person. You want that person to be the pleasant memories you have, when you were a child. Things get really uncomfortable, when reality gives you new revelations that what you perceive, may not be what is actually real. It might pain Joyce, a lot, but she is going to have to come to terms with the idea that the person Joyce thought was her Mother, is not who she really is.

  63. Author X

    Well, that sure stabbed me right in the anxiety (my mom is great and supportive, actually, but when it comes to coming out… you just never know)

  64. brumagem

    JSYK: On desktop chrome, I’m getting video ads that pop up in those little mini windows on the corner on the screen (that I can’t banish), and rather obtrusive side banners that go right up to the edge of the comic (also can’t banish)

  65. wakeangel2001

    I dunno, didn’t she try to defend the psycho who fired a shotgun on school property and tried to kidnap his daughter?

    1. DudeMyDadOwnsADealership

      In a filtered form. She was making it about her. I mean, did she even like Ross before things went South in a way that felt like an attack on *her* credibility as a Parent Whom Wants the Best for Her Kids like everyone else…Doubt she made any efforts to visit him in prison, or would have been interested in doing so even if their wasn’t an ounce of stigma to it. This isn’t unusual for nuclear families that spend their lives making excuses for/ rationalizations for a emotionally needy family leader whose credibility in their role can not be diminished or penalized over anything. It helps to compare her defense of Ross’s lack of sense to Willy Loman shouting “SPITE! SPIIITE!!” when his eldest son is trying to talk to him about things he doesn’t want to cope with….

    2. Agemegos

      It was a rifle, not a shotgun.

      1. Jhon

        Thank you!

  66. Skorpeyon

    I’ve been here with my parents. I still am, really. Especially my father. It’s tough as shit.

  67. Portland

    Jocelyn panel 5- “oh fuck, I didn’t expect that conversation to happen right now.”
    Jocelyn panel 6- “oh fuck, I have to lie to her.”

    1. Bagge

      Joyce: “Also, Dorothy says Santa doesn’t exist and Sierra says that Jesus didn’t have a blue sash. Is that true?”

      1. ValdVin

        “…and that Jesus doesn’t have a blue sash, or blue eyes.”

        GASP!

  68. He who hears Voices

    Jesus someone decided to bring the big calibers from the “Armor Piercing Question” Section.

  69. TheFlamingonator

    Jocelyne quick, Press Esc! PRESS ESC!

  70. Ethics Gradient

    Just saying “no” would be the better answer.

  71. BrokenEye, the True False Prophet

    Your mother has moved beyond your puny human concepts of good and evil

  72. Solenoid

    The look on your face when you gut answer is “No, no she’s not.”

  73. Abbefaria

    “Sometimes it’s wise to keep our expectations low. That way we’re never disappointed.”

  74. Smooti

    That’s the face of someone who asked herself the exact same thing, maybe not even that long ago.
    It’s hard when you realize that your parents aren’t perfect, and it’s even harder when you know they’re wrong. In a fundamental way that you might not ever even be able to change, and even if you can, it’s gonna be hard.

    1. Woomy

      Lol

      Fundamental

      1. Smooti

        …ah, pun was definitely accidental, but it’s there

  75. Blank

    That last question I often wonder about my own parents and if they would ever accept me coming out.
    I hide myself to them and almost everyone around me. It’s easier to stay hidden when it’s consistent. I’m not even gonna log this under my normal username for that purpose.

  76. Agemegos

    It wasn’t about Rich Mullins! Who was it about?

    1. Bagge

      Mom

    2. Marsh Maryrose

      Courtesy of Piet Hein:

      “Dream Interpretation Simplified

      Everything’s either concave or -vex
      So whatever you dream will be something with sex.”

  77. Geneseepaws

    Panels 5, 6, and 7, hurt my heart. That’s looking like heartache, right thre.

  78. PB

    Posting just to say I had never listened to Rich Mullins before today, and as a Catholic I gotta say you contemporary worshipers get pretty cool music. (Though what Catholic hymns lack in catchiness, they make up for in impact.)

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