237

Sift
Posted on September 4, 2023 by David M Willis

237 thoughts on “Sift”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    kindling, all of it, just to be certain

    (Do they have a flag?)

    1. Decidedly Orthogonal

      Terrifyingly, yes, yes they do.

      1. thakoru

        Designer: Okay, so we’ve got the cross in the top left corner, what do you want the rest of it to be?
        Minister: I don’t know man, we’ve got all these different denominations and they all want different things and I can’t get any of them to compromise. I’m this close to just throwing up a white flag.
        Designer: White flag? Got it.

        1. Taffy

          Also, why’s it crammed way up in the corner like that? There’s so much empty space, it’s like they want to waste good cloth.

        2. Jdorr

          Considering it was designed by American christians I’d assume they shoved it in the corner like that in emulation of the US flag. Now why they just left that area completely blank? No clue

        3. Taffy

          Probably white supremacist reasons. Or “purity”. It’s usually one of those.

    2. cbwroses

      I say we nuke it from orbit; it’s the only way to be sure.

      1. milu

        Better still put it in orbit, then send nukes

        1. Los

          Just scrub the entire solar system at that point. Better to not take the risk.

      2. Morleuca

        don’t put it in orbit, that’s where the super gay space communism is.

        1. NGPZ

          Inside Job reference?

          Either way, sounds like a wonderful place for a woke mind parasite such as myself ?

  2. ian livs

    Oh god, Joyce is far braver than I could ever be. I carefully *curate* my old cringe before letting anyone see it!

    1. Needfuldoer

      I just never let anyone see any of it.

      Ever.

  3. Amós Batista

    I even don’t need to search what is christian pledge of allegiance .
    Joe’s face of despair already tell that this should be avoided at any cost.

  4. pollybee

    is the Christian Pledge of Allegiance the same thing as the pledge to the Christian flag, or is that another thing entirely?

    1. Stephen Bierce

      Many denominations have a pledge of alliegiance to their own sect’s flag. I know the Episcopalians have one because they tried to get us kids to memorize it.

      1. pollybee

        I only know the AWANA one personally

        1. Dinajoyce

          I still can’t say the pledge to the American flag without instinctively saying the pledge to the AWANA flag right after it. As I’ve grown up, I’m not super comfortable with pledging a super high level of allegiance to America, so, I think that really, putting that pledge on the same level as my allegiance to AWANA is probably healthy…

        2. TerribleTransit

          I’m suddenly very grateful that the only lasting impacts of my time in AWANA were a slightly increased appreciation for pinewood derby and a love of Warheads candy.

      2. eh, whatever

        Jesus.

        1. Needfuldoer

          Yeah, I’m sure he gets mentioned in most versions.

    2. Theozilla

      I am wondering that too, because Joe’s reaction and the alt-text had me expecting a lot worse than what turned up in the Google search results.

    3. AbacusWizard

      You’d think they’d be content with just shoving a religious reference into the regular Pledge of Allegiance.

      1. Needfuldoer

        That was mostly for Cold War propaganda reasons.

      2. Hof1991

        Definitely a Cold War thing but also corporate and a bit racist. Recommended reading. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22928900

    4. Freemage

      Yeah, the one listed in the Wiki is a bit cringe-y, but that’s about it. That said, Joyce comes from a non-denominational hyper-fundie church, so I suspect that theirs is a lot more off-the-rails than the ones you’ll find in a quick Google search.

      1. pollybee

        based on the Willis tweet posted in here it’s just the pledge to the Christian flag. as a person who grew up in an non-denominational hyper-fundie household, I would have been surprised if it was a different thing.

      2. Mark

        There is worse. There’s a video that was linked with the song, “I Pledge Allegiance to the Lamb,” which made me squirm when they ran it during the service, and that was years before the latest craziness. If I saw it for the first time today, I’d probably slip out the back door and call the FBI.

        I guess it got a lot of members fired up. Me, it reminded of Heinlein’s “If This Goes On….” and especially the cover art for its collection Revolt in 2100. Not the effect that was expected, I think.

    5. GossamerWillow

      There’s also a pledge to the bible. I grew up Methodist, but in the Bible Belt, so we did the Bible Pledge and the Flag Pledge at vacation bible school in the summer.

  5. bootshivers

    He’s right and I’m glad he said it

    1. Frelance

      I misclicked Flag just scrollin’ around, there doesn’t appear to be a way to Un-click? sorry!

      1. Taffy

        You’ve doomed bootshivers with that flag, I hope you know. It only takes two flags to activate the Cum Virus, which is set to autorun any time the flagged individual accesses this website afterward, and floods their device with increasingly large amounts of hidden pornography and eventually bricks their device. Hope you’re proud of yourself.

        1. a/snow/mous/e

          quick flag me

        2. Emperor Norton II

          Once again, the comment and the avatar matches perfectly.

      2. bootshivers

        Didn’t notice a thing and didn’t get an angry email, it’s all good =w=

    2. Icalasari

      No no he’s wrong. It needs to be launched into the sun. Only that will suffice for burning this atrocious thing

  6. C.T. Phipps

    Surely there’s SOME good things.

    *pause*

    Ugh…it just gets worse and worse, doesn’t it?

    1. Doctor_Who

      Well, logically speaking, the more recent items would be on the top. While Joyce started DoA rather horrendously naive, she’s also come a long way in a short amount of time. Ergo, she probably got a little more open-minded and less brainwashed as she got older.

      So yeah, the deeper you dig, the more horrors will be unleashed.

      1. Mark

        OTOH the propaganda are getting worse, so maybe it balances out.

    2. Mollyscribbles

      The dinosaur stuff should at least be saved for Dina to view in horrified fascination before burning.

  7. AeromechanicalAce

    100% with Joe on this one. Kill it with Fire!

  8. True Survivor

    What does the pamphlet in panel 2 say?

    Also, I like that Joyce was drawing both crosses and syfy space heroines even at a young age.

    1. bootshivers

      Countryside Christian Church: “We’re Glad You’re Here!”

    2. Cholma

      I *think* it says “Countryside Christian Church – We’re Glad You’re Here”

    3. Bicycle Bill

      Interestingly enough, a Google search reveals a lot of congregations calling themselves “Countryside Christian Church” – including a couple in Indiana.

    4. Quirdry Tawks

      “Countryside Christian Church: don’t look, Stacy; it’s the ‘bus kids’…”

  9. milu

    I pledge allegiance to jesus christ– oh wait, nope Jesus is woke now.
    …. Hail Satan?

    1. NGPZ

      “You know Christianity has gone off the rails when Satan tells you to follow the second commandment.”

      1. milu

        Well but christianity is not a single thing

        1. NGPZ

          I was quoting one of Willis’s Twitter posts:

          https://twitter.com/damnyouwillis/status/1284515477105106944?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Escreen-name%3Adamnyouwillis%7Ctwcon%5Es1

        2. clif

          As a pornlord, it must be an X-post.

      2. RassilonTDavros

        This is making me want a religious equivalent to TFWiki’s “Ruined FOREVER” article.

    2. Amós Batista

      gonna launch this to my pastor ahahahahha

    3. Quirdry Tawks

      Well, they did raise a literal antichrist to the Presidency as ‘God’s candidate’, soooooo…

  10. Alongcameaspider

    The alt text telling me not to Google it is making me want to Google it

    1. OBBWG

      Since no alt text tells me what to do, I googled it. Not as bad as anticipated. Sort of remember something like it from my youth.

    2. Reltzik

      To fight that urge, remember that Google will remember this search and adjust what future searches show you in light of it.

      1. Icalasari

        Counter Point: By searching all this random stuff, Google has no idea what I want anymore

        Having to research everything from myths to density of human flesh to the mating rituals of some rare species of slug to types of telekinesis to theoretical physics for my fantasy world has caused Google to pretty much give the f up at this point

      2. Taffy

        Yeah, it’ll adjust by showing you shit that has nothing to do with anything you’ve ever searched for.

      3. Chris Phoenix

        Incognito Mode (in Chrome) seems to work for keeping searches out of future ads, so probably it also works for keeping searches out of future searches. Ctrl-Shift-N to get the Incognito window.

        Another strategy: when I get too many annoying ads, I do some (non-Incognito) searches for something expensive and technical like scuba gear or forklifts. I don’t get fewer ads, but they tend to be a lot less annoying.

      4. Mark

        What Google and Amazon think I’m interested in, based on previous requests, is often the funniest thing I’ll see all week.

      5. Kazuma Taichi

        that’s why I do my googling on duckduckgo

        1. Taffy

          Duck duck GO

          To the polls

    3. Proxiehunter

      Honestly I find the American pledge of Allegiance creepier than the Christian one. If you aren’t going to ally with your gods and your co-coreligionists then you probably should be in a different religion that you would. America on the other hand I was born in this shithole and can’t get out.

      1. someone

        Yeah, I can’t be creeped out by some weird pledge to the Christian flag when I’m already creeped out by the weird pledge to the American flag.

        What’s up with pledging allegiance to bits of fabric?

        1. TerribleTransit

          The pledge is actually to the country (“…and to the republic”), using the flag as an ever-present, tangible proxy and reminder of your vow so you feel like it’s always watching you

        2. Nathan

          Flagopticon

        3. Quirdry Tawks

          Not anymore, it isn’t. The people have been accepting the symbols of liberty in lieu of the substance for so long, they no longer know the difference.

    4. june gloom

      I googled it instantly without even checking the alt-text and was depressed to find it was exactly what I thought it’d be.

  11. Thag Simmons

    Joyce should acquire a paper shredder for today, would make it cathartic

  12. RassilonTDavros

    I would react in horror at learning such a thing exists if I hadn’t already seen it on Twitter.

    1. NGPZ

      Mass catharsis ahoy!!! ??

      *plays “Exorcism” by David Sardy on hacked muzak*

    2. milu

      Please someone explain why this is A Deal for us koala-wits in the back?

      1. NGPZ

        koala-wits?

        1. Taffy

          Those with the wits of a koala.

        2. clif

          Preferably a witty koala.

        3. milu

          Koalas are not very bright. Probably

        4. Mark

          Koalas would be wiser than us all, except that they’re always stoned on eucalyptol.

        5. HueSatLight

          their brains are addled by STI’s because they can’t take antibiotics, it kills the gut microbes that digest eucalyptus for them.

    3. a/snow/mous/e

      So it’s just literally plagiarized from the US Pledge of Allegiance, lol

      1. clif

        They’re cut from the same cloth.

    4. Amós Batista

      Nice catch.

      Now I’m curious about the last word. A secret nobody will knows.

  13. Raen

    What, like the Nicene Apostle’s Creed?

    …I feel like it’s not the Apostle’s Creed.

    1. Freemage

      Honestly, it’s a bit more cringe-y version of the AC, really. At least the versions I’ve found online.

    2. Kimi

      Think more politics less religion I guess?

  14. Angel

    The regular pledge of allegiance arlready has ‘under god’ XP wasn’t esp fond of it but at that age it would’ve been more of a pain to ‘refuse/protest’ lol

    1. AbacusWizard

      Just tell people you’re going to use the *original* Pledge of Allegiance from before it was modified.

    2. Freemage

      I actually learned the original/unmodified one at my school: “one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all”.

      1. Uly

        The original runs “I pledge allegiance to my flag” and that was the first modification – people worried that some little immigrant children might pledge to their own flags in their hearts. FFS.

  15. quark

    what i love about joe and joyce is that everytime they interact, they basically flip a coin to decide whos going to be the straight man in the strip

  16. AbacusWizard

    Dumbing of Age, Book 15: Are You Ready To Spelunk Through My Childhood?

  17. Alanari

    Of course the us-Americans created a Christian flag. And a pledge along with it. Why am I surprised.

    1. HueSatLight

      To be fair, a lot of countries have created a Christian Flag, and then killed people whose Christian Flag they didn’t like as much.

      1. DailyBrad

        Yeah, this kind of mentality didn’t spring forth out of George Washington’s forehead or something, it’s a European export that just germinated in a particular way stateside.

        1. clif

          You just described our entire (dominant) culture.

        2. Taffy

          Does this mean America is just some amateur’s homebrewed Europe?

        3. Mark

          You have understood it well. The idea was “remove king, keep everything else.”

        4. Taffy

          Replace king with Frito Lay

        5. Quirdry Tawks

          You doubted? Amurka learned its bullshit from the very best.

      2. Alanari

        Never seen any Christian flag in Europe. We had a whole lot of symbols, jesus is dying on every second wall in parts of this country, but flags, not so much.

        1. khn0

          well the vatican has one.

        2. Nipo

          That’s a state. States have flags. That is (/ should be) different thing entirely.

        3. Alanari

          We also have a lot of cities and states with Christian symbols on their flags and coat of arms. But those are flags that represent earthly institutions that happen to value a religion. Not flags for a religion.

        4. HueSatLight

          When divine right of kings was standard, those same flags were flags for a religion. England’s flag is a crusader flag.
          And the national sects can have their own flags, Church of Sweden’s is a red cross on a yellow field, with a yellow crown in the middle. Americans didn’t invent political Christianity, political Christianity, ironically, has just festered here.

  18. thakoru

    Joyce: Oh we’re going to have a bonfire by the time we’re through this.

  19. VinzKlortho

    Dominionist Literature Bonfire would be a decent band name, imo

    1. Quirdry Tawks

      No, I think the Dominionists are all attending Air Force.

  20. DailyBrad

    Man, in some ways, this is more intimate than if she let him watch her ride the washing machine.

  21. anonymsly

    I’m just over here loving how all-in Joe is on Joyce. He IS ready for anything.

    1. DailyBrad

      Absolutely. It’s like how he told Jacob that one out of ten things Joyce said was horrifying, but that it used to be one in five, and that she keeps improving, back when he was briefly talking her up to him and maybe not admitting that whoops he’d caught feelings big time.

    2. Quirdry Tawks

      Oh, if only. Joe has nowhere near enough rope to spelunk this rabbit hole.

  22. Reaver

    I pledge allegiance to the christian flag, and who’s savior it stands. one savior crucified, risen with life and liberty to all who believe

    1. Felian

      that is also burned into my brain from a christian internship i did in the states……. holy yikes, indoctrination goes SO deep.

  23. Taffy

    Is it time to dunk on that stupid-ass Flag Pledge? I got in trouble so many times in grade school* for not performing my section of the ritual, it actually wound up holding back my education. You’re supposed to stand up, put your right hand over your heart, stare at the American Flag that’s somewhere in the room, and recite the incantation with the rest of your class. I routinely ignored some combination of these “rules”, usually all of them, because it creeped me the fuck out to see everyone in the room chanting at a piece of cloth. And for the first couple years of my schoolin’, they took personal offense to that and gave me after-school detention on a weekly basis. Eventually they realised I wasn’t playing their stupid game and just left me the fuck alone, but they did warn each other that I was “a troublemaker”, so that in every interaction I had with faculty, they assumed I was “giving them an attitude” no matter what I said, especially when I did what they asked.

    And that’s for the non-religious performative patriotism. I can only imagine how much worse it would be for a Christian kid who didn’t participate in the indoctrination ritual.

    *”Grade school” is 1st-8th grade (So about ages 6-13ish), for those who don’t speak Southern Illinois.

    1. Bash

      That’s horrible and I’m so sorry you went through that.

      1. Taffy

        Not as sorry as the ones who put me through it. By the time I was 10, I’d very thoroughly learned the meaning of “respect”, and I made sure to let every authority figure know they didn’t deserve any just for existing. Sure, they were all too stupid and proud to not double down, but so was I, and I made it their problem at every opportunity.

        1. Felian

          That sounds kinda cool and kinda stressful and awful…

          But i really agree. People mistake respect for *obedience to authority*, when all that respect actually means is to treat people with regards to how they want to be treated. Which needs to go both ways, unlike obedience.
          But many adults didn’t get that memo.

        2. Taffy

          In fairness, many adults had incredibly entitled parents, themselves. Can’t break the cycle if there wasn’t one in the first place, I say.

        3. NGPZ

          *points at reader like Smokey the Bear*

          Only YOU can break the cycle of intergenerational trauma.

    2. NGPZ

      I feel you so hard on this bruh. It never gets any easier. ??

      1. Taffy

        Speak for yourself, it’s way easier now that I don’t care about myself or others enough not to hit back. I can just do it and nobody pretends to be shocked anymore.

    3. HueSatLight

      We had it daily in grade school (K-5), weekly in middle school (6-8), and never in high school. It petered out around the time I was figuring out what it meant and stopped.
      I didn’t do Kindergarten there, so I was confused as hell when it first happened.

      1. Needfuldoer

        Oh yeah. The indoctrination hits early here.

      2. HueSatLight

        For at like a year, I thought the last word was “frog”.

        1. Taffy

          With liberty and justice for frog

          Free my man Kermit

    4. AeromechanicalAce

      There is never a bad time to dunk on weird Nationalist Cult Rituals.

    5. Queezle

      Are their flags in every classroom in the US? Is that not weird? That seems kind of weird to me. The whole thing, as you describe it, sounds kind of culty. And the fact that children/young teens are pressured to participate does not really help with that,

      1. thakoru

        Oh it’s very weird. Like, thank God you literally can’t turn a corner in this country without seeing the Stars and Stripes at least once, otherwise I might forget what country I’m in. /s

        1. Taffy

          If I don’t see that ugly-ass flag or a church within 100ft of me, I’ve noticed I walk slower and with better posture.

        2. HueSatLight

          Density of flags is a good way to tell how unwelcoming an area is.

      2. Yumi

        It’s super weird, and they start kids saying it at a time where they don’t understand what all the words mean separately, let alone together.

        1. eh, whatever

          “…and for the Republican Richard Sands one vegetable…”

        2. Taffy

          Display obedience
          While never stepping out of line
          And blindly swear allegiance
          Let your country control your mind!
          (Let your country control your soul!)

        3. NGPZ

          Where others see a great nation,
          I see a monument to hypocracy,
          A monument to over 200 years worth of the worst of humanity.
          If the “communists” or whatever boogeyman want America,
          They can have it.
          I AM DONE.

        4. Quirdry Tawks

          Feelin you there. I’m out the second I can foot the visa… and the airfare… and deposits on a place… and shipping for my stuff… and… well, shit. ☹️

        5. Da Boy

          As someone whose country was saved from Communist atrocities and is currently being saved from Russia atrocities by America I say “Stay strong America!”.

        6. NGPZ

          Then how about all earthlings rapidly devolve into mindless slugs? They wouldn’t amount to much, yes, but at the very least they’d stop hurting each other and their planet.

        7. Da Boy

          Haha that’s very optimistic thinking. All life constantly fights and competes. But I guess at least the slugs wouldn’t have missiles and rifles… unless they get creative.

        8. NGPZ

          I mean, ALL life starts out as competition, even brainless amoebas do it.

          The point is, once that amoeba can give itself enough glucose from a machine to basically poison itself, it’s allowed to start thinking beyond competition and the conflict it breeds.

        9. Da Boy

          Sadly that’s very true. We didn’t evolve much past “Must amass resources to protect myself and my tribe.”

    6. Otl1973

      Forget the Pledge of Allegiance. When I was in 1st and 2nd grades – before Engle vs Vitale banned it – I was required to recite the Lord’s Prayer. I’m not Christian, but that didn’t matter, and as a 5-6 year old, I didn’t understand and certainly wasn’t in a position to argue.

      1. NGPZ

        So much for separation of church and state ?

        1. Miri

          If you’re a 6 year old Brit temporarily living in the US (for a year or two so long enough to go to school but not a citizen and with no plans to become a citizen) you’re still expected to do The Ritual.

          Which is kinda weird. But that thing where pledging allegiance ~200 times a year whilst well under the age at which I was legally responsible for my own actions wasn’t in any way binding… if it was, that could have been the easiest path to citizenship the US ever forgot to close up?

        2. eh, whatever

          Oh, but this is America. If you commit something heinous enough, you’re retroactively made legally responsible for it – “tried as an adult” even if you’re not one.

        3. Taffy

          And they’ll do it no matter how young you are! I went to court when I was 10 because I had my head down in class and it was somehow disruptive enough to warrant two cop cars and a trip downtown.

        4. Plain Marie

          The school where I teach has easily a third of our students from other nations, including a generous number of refugees. It always feels super weird to have them recite the pledge, so I don’t, even when it’s lead over the intercom these days. We do have many flags of many nations in our classroom to look at… I just teach them to stand still respectfully as the minimum.

    7. Needfuldoer

      I pledge allegiance… to Queen Fragg… and her mighty state of hysteria…

      1. Schpoonman

        Was looking for that

      2. Taffy

        Thanks for including ellipses. They represent the creepy, stop-and-go way we were taught to recite the incantation. It was so irritating and took so goddamn long, because faculty would get actually angry at you for not pausing for at least a full second every few words. One kid in my class would pause extra long when it was their turn to lead, and I got one of my only remotely-justified suspensions after I punched them in the mouth and screamed in their ear to hurry up so we could all go to the bathroom. (I used to be violently impatient, y’see. I’m not proud of it, but I’m also not ashamed because it was 20 years ago, get over it.)

        Also we all had to line up outside the bathroom in alphabetical order by surname and wait one-by-one to piss, even though there were multiple toilets in each bathroom, because we might talk to each other during the one minute it took, but one of the kids whose surname ended in A would take ten minutes on their own and it somehow wasn’t a problem.

        1. Needfuldoer

          Gotta give each line a moment to really sink into those impressionable young minds. Only turn up the pace as they get older, around the age where they start to question things. If they don’t get the opportunity, you can nip that in the bud!

          /s

        2. Taffy

          Joke’s on them, I had ADHD and couldn’t sit still if I wasn’t allowed to read my book. The Flag Pledge was nothing but an obstacle between me and Dragonriders of Pern, and the faculty were all too stupid to understand why that wasn’t acceptable for longer than 30 seconds.

    8. Plain Marie

      All my grade school classrooms recited the pledge, until my 6th grade class (late ‘70s). My teacher cheerfully explained to us that she [wasn’t a Christian] and wouldn’t be making us recite anything that included professing a god belief. Or something like that. And we didn’t. This was my first clue that it was optional.

    9. Amós Batista

      You were very strong to get through this shit. I wish I could have half the courage you had in schooldays.

      1. Taffy

        Not to be a contrarian, but I definitely wasn’t “strong”, and I definitely wouldn’t call it courage. I was just angry 24/7 from incessant bullying and had absolutely no patience for anything that didn’t immediately interest me, unless I was given an explanation for why it was important. And even then, an explanation would only buy them so much time before I started taking that anger out on whatever/whoever was closest.

        This was before it got trendy to shoot up your school because you didn’t like what was being served for lunch that day.

    10. RassilonTDavros

      You think that’s creepy? I grew up expected to say that and also the Texas State Flag Pledge. Including the line “I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas,” which frankly borders on outright sedition. Though on the bright side, I don’t recall ever getting in trouble for not saying it (I still said the American one all the way through high school, but noped out of the Texas one around ninth grade or so).

    11. Keulen

      I remember I had to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in 1st grade, before my family switched us over to the neighboring school district that didn’t require the pledge. I always thought it was dumb, and when I grew older I realized it’s creepy to make a bunch of young kids recite a pledge of allegiance daily to a country they just happened to be born in.

  24. Owlmirror

    I note that the door of the room is now closed.

    And Joyce isn’t mentioning it.

    I guess mementos of childhood Christianity are the ultimate (lady-)boner killer

  25. Yumi

    I said the US Pledge of Allegiance every school day during elementary school; then, thankfully, the middle school and high school I went to really only did it on 9/11. Then, just a couple years after I graduated, it became the law in my state that public schools had to do the Pledge of Allegiance (technically have to give students the “opportunity” to recite it each school day).

    Since I then went on to work in schools, there were many mornings when I’d be subbing in a classroom when the PA would come on, sometimes for announcements and the pledge, sometimes just the pledge. And I’d just kinda stand there awkwardly and hope a kid didn’t ask about why I didn’t participate. (This is fine and, in the same law, protected for students; it does not specify staff, and I’ve heard of people getting weird about it.)

    At the school I’m currently at… well, the classroom I was in last year just didn’t do it. I guess we were supposed to, but no one told us, so whoopsie. And this year seems like it will be odd because the school doesn’t have a PA system– it’s supposed to be teacher-lead– but the teacher I’m working with isn’t a US citizen, so she’s not doing it, and I’m really not looking to do it either.

    1. Da Boy

      I’ll never over the fact that US just picks and chooses the weirdest parts from the Individualistic and Collectivist forms of running a country…

      1. NGPZ

        Si, I also notice a general pattern among christian conservative coalitions and alt-right movements in the US, that a large part of it depends on keeping themselves carefully ignorant of their own beliefs. For not only would it scare the shit out of them if they actually realized what they believe in, but knowing and being obliged to defend a coherent worldview would otherwise impair their ability to argue effectively.

        1. Da Boy

          Pull yourself up by bootstraps but throw money at banks and corpos, yeah.

  26. Bryy

    I cannot wait for people to come in defending this upcoming arc.

    1. Sarah Lea

      Just curious: Defending it against what? Or defending what about the arc?

      1. Taffy

        I’m also very confused.

        1. khn0

          Joan.
          Joan of Upcoming Arc.
          She has heard Word of Willis, and will come to be defended by people because she can’t stand a good burn without a good alliance with others.
          Or something like that

      2. thejeff

        Defending the creepy Christian stuff in it maybe?

  27. HueSatLight

    There is a drawing underneath the Monkey Master poster. It doesn’t look quite like Joe’s drawing, but it might be rendered differently for less detail. I can’t find the last time the poster and area under it got rendered before “take me to life drawing”. anyone know what it is?

  28. Suet

    “Little Assault of Horrors”, where it’s “Oops! All Drawings”

    Maybe Joe needs a little easing in with the spelunking, even if Joyce did warn about church programs

  29. ThomasQuinn

    What is it with Americans and those pledges? That kind of stuff looks really…totalitarian…to most of the rest of the world.

    1. Uly

      It doesn’t look better from over here, honestly.

    2. Quirdry Tawks

      Well of course it is. God didn’t name us His All-time Favorite Country on a whim.

      1. clif

        Texas, which is his most favored state, gets a flag with it’s very own pledge.

        https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/flagpledge.html

    3. Needfuldoer

      A lot of the more overt stuff came about during the Cold War as cheap propaganda, to galvanize the idea that we’re special and better than everyone else. Baby Boomers grew up immersed in the stuff, so they carried it on as “just what you do” and get highly offended if you don’t go along with them.

    4. Mark

      Some background. It was a different country in 1892.

      I get the feeling that super-patriots and super-Christians alike would be horrified to learn the actual history and context of the Pledge.

  30. Now

    I was totally about to Google it, Willis is being a Mastermind again! And months in advance!

  31. Yumi

    Speaking of things schools do that suck… the employee handbook for my school (well, the company that runs the school, public charter) has been updated this year to include a section that’s basically like… if you learn a student is trans, you have to out them to their parents. Yeah. I’m pretty sure that’s a contact the ACLU situation? I’m not sure if there’s another organization to go to, though, or the best way to go about it? Sincerely asking for advice.

    1. Laura

      Hi Yumi,

      Thank you for raising this. I am so sorry you have to deal with such suck! The kids are lucky you are on their side.

      In addition to GLAAD, here are a few more orgs:

      https://www.glsen.org/resources/educator-resources

      https://transgenderlawcenter.org/

      https://lambdalegal.org/

      1. Laura

        Here’s the big one:

        https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/index.html

        Plus a few more:

        https://glaad.org/

        https://pflag.org/

        1. Laura

          Yeah. I remember getting to go away to school was just about the only thing keeping me (relatively) physically safe back then. And even then…
          It’s putting kiddos’ lives in danger.

        2. Laura

          Outing them to their parents, I mean.

    2. Taffy

      Isn’t it really easy to just not out the student, though? Teachers pretend they don’t see things all the time, one more thing (that’s impossible to prove they know) won’t hurt ’em.

      1. Yumi

        Is it easy for me to not out the student? Sure. I learned of multiple students’ romantic/sexual orientations and genders last year just from overhearing conversations, and it never even occurred to me to out the students because why would I do that? But can I get all staff in the school onboard with the idea that “Yeah, it says this in our handbook, but it’s shitty, so don’t”? Doubtful. What about the staff of the other schools run by this organization? I don’t even know them.

        1. Taffy

          I wasn’t really proposing anything so large-scale. We can’t fix everyone, but we can control ourselves and that’s what I was focusing on. Good on ya for not being a dangerous busybody, honestly.

        2. Yumi

          We can control ourselves, that just wasn’t the issue on-hand. The policy is the issue, not what I, in particular, would do in a hypothetical situation (where the solution of “don’t out a student” is like…obvious).

    3. eh, whatever

      if you learn a student is trans, you have to out them to their parents.

      What Taffy said: if you learn that a third party can prove in court that you learned a student is trans, and you learn the third party is willing and able to sue or get a fourth party to sue, then you have to out them to their parents and/or lawyer up.

      1. Taffy

        It’s all just a big plot to get schools non-fundie schools shut down so that everyone is either stuck in Jesus University or homeschooled, so that real education stops interfering with the death cult’s pwecious pwophecy.

      2. Laura

        I think the issue is when a child asks a teacher to use a certain name or certain pronouns when speaking or referring to the child. In that case, there would be many witnesses (and tattletales) that the teacher knew the child’s identity.

        Also, if a child finally does gather the courage to tell the child’s parents, then, a teacher’s having previously said, “Just don’t tell anyone you and I had this conversation” puts the teacher in a much more legally precarious position.

        1. Mark

          I am imagining a lot of classrooms on the first day.

          Good morning, class! Welcome to Grade X. We’re going to start with Civics. [unveils whiteboard/smart screen/whatever] Here is a list of some of the things I’m required to report to the Principal. If any of them applies to you, you might wish to consider making sure that I don’t have to take official notice of them. This lesson did not happen. Let’s go around the room and introduce ourselves….

        2. Taffy

          “Hello, students. I’m legally required to give less of a shit about your life than a Walmart cashier does. Don’t tell me literally anything about yourself besides what could be found on a driver’s license, or I might be unemployed within the week. I can’t answer your questions, personal or lesson-related, for fear of your parents being unhinged extremists who’ll mail a pipe bomb to my house.”

    4. not someone else

      Also? Contact your union. And if you’re not in the union, join. This is an active danger to the children and once the fuck again they are hoping to fire any teacher who takes that seriously.

      1. Aslan

        Unfortunately, charter schools usually aren’t unionized and charter school employees are often barred from local educators’ unions because charter schools typically usurp government funds from public schools while not having to follow any government regulations or guidelines (this is not shade at Yumi for working at one because we’re all just trying to survive in an increasingly hostile system, but the charter school situation is deeply fucked)

        1. Yumi

          Yeah, this. No union at my school, and I’m not a fan of the charter school system in general. The position I have at my current school, which I do enjoy, is not one that exists in most public schools, though, so it’d be harder to make that move.

  32. Icalasari

    “I pledge allegiance to the Christian Flag”

    Joe, we need nuclear fire for this

  33. Da Boy

    Christian Pledge of Allegiance? So do you like… pledge allegiance to Jesus instead of US? Then again my own country proclaimed Jesus to be the King of Poland and Mary its Queen.

    1. Rachel McCall

      Wait so did Jesus marry his mom in this royal scenario

      1. Taffy

        You’re not supposed to ask questions like that, it ruins their immersion.

      2. Da Boy

        You’d have to ask our Right-Wing politicians about that XD It’s all symbolic, Mary was seen as the Queen of Poland for a long time and a while back they tried to pull something to make Jesus the King. It’s all very odd.

        1. Needfuldoer

          Wait, I thought Mary was Queen of Scots…

        2. Da Boy

          Different Mary I suppose

    2. Pseudowolf

      Yeah, but these are also people who will say things like “I serve my God and my country, in that order”

  34. DarkoNeko

    go outside before starting any fire.

    1. Taffy

      Then how will I burn an apartment building so I can hide amidst the flames wearing a knitted shawl and ambush Spider-Man?

  35. Amelie Wikström

    I’m thinking, keep one old drawing of Jesus on the cross, throw out 10,000 identical ones, do some random sampling of the old homework, probably throw out all of it, and throw out all the pamphlets and junk. Hardly seems like a couples activity, but Joyce must REALLY like spending time with Joe.

    1. DarkoNeko

      ‘I’m opening all of myself to you. My past”

    2. Needfuldoer

      Joyce owns a scanner; she doesn’t have to keep any hard copies if she wants.

  36. DarkoNeko

    the … “christian pledge of allegiance”. I had never heard of that thing before (even tho I was raised catholic, in France) and wow holy crap that’s cringe.

    It seems like such an USA thing to do..

    1. Mark

      I suspect it’s a part of the endless jousting with the State that obsesses some Christians here.

  37. Abel Undercity

    When my late wife told me about having to do the Christian pledge of allegiance in school, I seriously thought she was pulling my leg. But no.

  38. Amós Batista

    I’ve found a virginity pledge in my old things box. It’s from 20 years ago.
    I wish I can cancel and return this contract, but how and for who?

    (Kappa)

    1. Quirdry Tawks

      No refunds.

  39. WAhydrohead

    Well, I wish I had read the alt text before immediately jumping out to a google search 😐

  40. Mark

    “Decide what to keep and what to save.” I see Joe has done this sort of cleanup before.

    1. Needfuldoer

      I bet Joe watches Hoarders.

      1. Amós Batista

        That’s a great serie.

        1. Needfuldoer

          Isn’t it! I can’t watch the animal-heavy episodes, though.

          Matt Paxton is the best part of the show. “We’re all about five decisions away from poopin’ in a bucket.”

        2. HueSatLight

          decision 1: should I have a bucket?

  41. ValdVin

    Although text: Thanks to my armchair media critic’s diet I’ve probably already seen it.

    1. ValdVin

      “Although”? Thanks, autocorrect.

      1. Quirdry Tawks

        I kinda like “although text”, though. Best place for afterthoughts, right?

  42. Hof1991

    These boxes are all things Carol wanted saved. Nuf said.

    It’s not Joyce’s childhood, it’s a monument to carols parenting.

    1. Hof1991

      I use gravitars elsewhere otherwise I would be a funny cartoon here.

      1. Taffy

        Reject that instinct. If somebody sees your funny cartoon, you get to share your enthusiasm for funny cartoons.

    2. Needfuldoer

      That’s the most succinct description of this guilt-laden parent-induced hoarding I’ve ever heard.

  43. Yeet

    So I googled it and honestly it doesn’t come off as significantly more horrifying than the usual pledge of allegiance
    making people pledge allegiance every day in school is pretty fucked up @ america

  44. Wendy

    Ya can’t tell me “don’t Google that” and expect me NOT to Google it. But you knew that.

  45. Professional asexual

    The one thing I have understood from this comment section today is that holy crap, it shows the resilience of humans that not MORE than half the US population are brainwashed flag-wielding cultists

  46. WD

    *Googles it*

    And I thought the ordinary pledge of allegiance was bad.

  47. Tarnagh

    Weird because the Christian pledge isn’t the same as what little I remember of that time in my life. I’ve blocked most of it and besides it was a really long time ago, but I very much remember the pledge I said beginning “I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag and to the *church* for which it stands …”

    1. Pseudowolf

      I haven’t thought of that pledge in years. I’m not sure if I’m more disturbed that I remember it exists or that I just found I could still recite it from memory. Though in the version I remember, it went
      “I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag and to the Savior for Whose Kingdom it stands. One brotherhood uniting all Christians in service and love.”

  48. HueSatLight

    Thinking about the people who want to build re-education camps getting a summary of today’s commentary from google. “Not only are they critical of religion in school, they hate the Pledge and Flag!”

    1. Quirdry Tawks

      And we do, we really do. I wish I could just walk along with a torch, lighting up every flag I see along the way.

      Certainly one good way to get some exercise and fresh air.

  49. Mym

    According to the allegiance, they’re already alight and on fire tho

  50. Felian

    It amuses me that now as we talk about flags, every comment has the options “reply” and “flag”.
    Hehehe.

    1. Taffy

      I hit both buttons on yours! ?

  51. Grayfinity

    I think in this instance I’ll heed David’s warning and leave that as something I’ll never know.

    Anyway, I love Joe and Joyce so much!

  52. nightshade

    i agree with joe for once

  53. Jae

    Wow, I had straight up forgotten about the christian pledge of allegiance till I googled it – and then I realized that the version I saw wasn’t the version I grew up with. I found an image that paired the CFPoA with the Bible pledge of allegiance and the US pledge of allegiance – and my brain could remember saying the bible pledge in VBS and I could “hear” the exact cadence of how we said it with so many childrens’ voices.

    Now I’m bothered by the fact I don’t remember the second half of the CFPoA that I can’t seem to find on the internet. Neurospicy gonna neurospicy, I guess.

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