She understands Becky’s limitations very well, because Becky’s sexual limitations closely mirror her own social limitations. So Dina made sure to communicate her desires clearly so Becky wasn’t misreading her, and was happy to accept that Becky was unwilling to cross that line at this moment.
Yeah, kids these days have the Internet to learn from. That probably creates a whole lot of problems by swinging expectations too far the other way, though…
Felian
Well, “having any idea what to do“ and “realistic ideas“ are two different things…
zee
you are severely overestimating both the educational properties of porn and the amount of confidence a teenage virgin has when trying out the real thing
Zaxares
Hehe, yeeeep. I don’t think porn is fundamentally a bad thing (far from it!), but it does teach some hilariously bad ideas about how sex actually works in real life. That’s not to say that trying out stuff from porn can’t be thrillingly exciting, but just do your proper research beforehand. If you change your mind, stop. If it hurts, stop. (Unless you’re into that AND know what you’re doing.)
Roborat
Yes, and I feel very sorry for any families with step children, or any situation where a girl gets stuck in, on or under something.
Tim
It’s amazing how you summed up the current trends in porn in one sentence.
Woomy
They said “the Internet”, not “exclusively porn websites”
I know that Becky’s translucent hair is just an artistic flourish, but panels 3 and 4 make it really hard not to imagine she has orange cellophane growing out of her head.
Although, weirdly it seems to obscure her nose and mouth, but not her eyes. And kinda looks like mouth tentacles. She sorta reminds me of the OOTS version of an Illithid.
That’s not an uncommon desire among cultures where expressing sexuality isn’t allowed, but Becky, it’s okay to admit you want it, even if you’re saying no. You don’t need to absolve yourself of that.
Erika Moen has put much of her comic on the same subject into book form on Oh Joy Sex Toy. Sometimes the pictures are illustrations of what to do or NOT to do. Some UU churches are using them as adjunct texts for OWL adult sex ed.
Roborat
The “Boo! it’s Sex” webtoon team up by Danielle Corsetto and Monica Gallagher is also a well written, well disguised sex ed primer, as is Futari Ecchi, which does a great job of compensating for Japan’s terrible track record on sex ed.
I don’t think she wanted absolution for her desire in and of itself, I think she was fantasizing about Dina being so turned on that her (token, important to emphasize) objections would be ignored, allowing her to have that experience while still technically expressing an interest in staying chaste.
And this is where the whole “women say no but mean yes” thing comes from. There was a time when it wasn’t safe, socially speaking, for women to admit to wanting sex (and for some, like Becky and Joyce, it is still true). So there is a truth to the idea. The problem is that 1) you can’t know for sure when this is the case and 1a) there’s a bias toward interpreting things that way if it is in one’s own interests and 2) the culture has changed and it is much safer for women to say “yes” without social reprisal, therefore “no” is more likely to always mean no (and not be a token, socially obligated “no”) but somehow the concept that women still do this all the time endures.
Mister Afro
Funny how you mention that, because there’s a similar plot point going on in another webcomic called “Alfie.” There’s a character who is essentially another Mary, but was about to bone down with someone. She says no, and he actually stops. When she counters him with “you didn’t have to stop,” he counters with “I no play games.”
Meagan
Nice. Yeah, that is definitely best practice. I realized another aspect of this too, which is that if someone is saying no and wants it to be ignored, that is almost never wholehearted. Like, it is really an indication of mixed feelings, which is bound to lead to emotional turmoil of some sort. Like Becky here, she’s saying that she kinda wishes Dina would just ravish her despite any objections, but if that actually happened, she would probably feel at best ambivalent during or at least after. Hence, beat practice is to take no literally all the time as per your webcomic reference.
TemperaryObsessor
I feel like middle name Ryan was on some level using that as an excuse.
The thing is even if fear of social consequences leads to false nos I think most of the time you will end up with some combination of the following situations if you push past a no.
1. You ignore their stated desires and give them what they really want, now its what they wanted but they now know you don’t respect their bonderies.
2. You ignore their stated desires and give them what they really want, they know you knew they wanted you to ignore their no and now face the consequences they were trying to avoid by saying no.
3. You ignored their stated desires which were their actual desires you f-ing rapist.
thejeff
On some level perhaps – he does call her a tease.
Mostly not though – he didn’t ask, he didn’t make a pass, he didn’t even find out her desires. His plan was to isolate and drug her from the start.
Adam Black
This is literally why safe words exist. as an AllStop
Sometimes people use no when they mean “slow down” or ‘not that’ or
“not that right now” .
thejeff
Not really. Similar in some cases, but basically anyone stuck in the mindset of “I have to protest for form’s sake, but I really want to continue” isn’t going to up on safe word culture.
THIS is exactly how i reasoned when I was a fundie christian teenager. Feels relieving to read that here, so it wasn’t just me. Sometimes it still haunts me. It’s actually ridiculously hypocritical, but it helped in reconciling what i thought of as good morals with sexual desires thatitotallydidnothaveatallbecausei’magoodgirl 😉
Meagan
I’m glad I articulated something that connected to your experience. It is actually relieving to me to see this because I feared I’d get a lot of push back for not staying “on message” that no always means no. But we need to acknowledge nuance and complexity in these Dynamics.
I was pretty sure they weren’t ready for that yet – or that Becky at least wasn’t.
Now, performing a Heavy Petting… well, I was kinda hoping she was ready for that. Second Base is a wonderful place.
Holding hands is Up To Bat, kissing is First Base, touching breasts above or under clothing is Second Base, touching bare genitals under clothing or pants/underwear pulled down was third, and PIV was a Home Run. Oral sex was considered a myth when I was growing up so not included in the “Base System.
(ONLY if it’s for that reason, either because it being reactionary will somehow taint it for her or because she’ll feel she rushed. If she did it at exactly the same time but for another reason, it’s fine.)
159 thoughts on “Signalling”
DarkoNeko
Oh COME ON.
Reltzik
Yes. That was a come-on.
Ana Chronistic
oh great, two subs looking to be dominated
(I mean srsly tho, they’re gonna be waiting for a while at this rate)
MatthewTheLucky
Dina’s a dom, she’s just being considerate.
Doctor_Who
It’s always the quiet ones.
AntJ
She understands Becky’s limitations very well, because Becky’s sexual limitations closely mirror her own social limitations. So Dina made sure to communicate her desires clearly so Becky wasn’t misreading her, and was happy to accept that Becky was unwilling to cross that line at this moment.
Honestly, relationship goals
Hazel
Huh, I never thought of it like that. Nice!
Bagge
That’s a very good explanation.
Bagge
Yup
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/04-walking-with-dina/misreading/
jmsr7
Lol, that actually supports the “Dina is a Dom” hypothesis.
DarkoNeko
Neither have any idea what to do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Nono
Isn’t that every teenager when doing sex?
Woomy
Maybe in the seventies
Needfuldoer
Yeah, kids these days have the Internet to learn from. That probably creates a whole lot of problems by swinging expectations too far the other way, though…
Felian
Well, “having any idea what to do“ and “realistic ideas“ are two different things…
zee
you are severely overestimating both the educational properties of porn and the amount of confidence a teenage virgin has when trying out the real thing
Zaxares
Hehe, yeeeep. I don’t think porn is fundamentally a bad thing (far from it!), but it does teach some hilariously bad ideas about how sex actually works in real life. That’s not to say that trying out stuff from porn can’t be thrillingly exciting, but just do your proper research beforehand. If you change your mind, stop. If it hurts, stop. (Unless you’re into that AND know what you’re doing.)
Roborat
Yes, and I feel very sorry for any families with step children, or any situation where a girl gets stuck in, on or under something.
Tim
It’s amazing how you summed up the current trends in porn in one sentence.
Woomy
They said “the Internet”, not “exclusively porn websites”
Yarrr
They’ll get there! Give them time.
Doctor_Who
I know that Becky’s translucent hair is just an artistic flourish, but panels 3 and 4 make it really hard not to imagine she has orange cellophane growing out of her head.
Although, weirdly it seems to obscure her nose and mouth, but not her eyes. And kinda looks like mouth tentacles. She sorta reminds me of the OOTS version of an Illithid.
Hugo Bedward
to me she looks like Zoidberg
Kaidah
Looking for a girlfriend? Why not Zoidberg?
Jhon
Her left eye turns into an exclamation point.
(!)
BBCC
That’s not an uncommon desire among cultures where expressing sexuality isn’t allowed, but Becky, it’s okay to admit you want it, even if you’re saying no. You don’t need to absolve yourself of that.
Regalli
I really want to give these dear ex-fundie girls a hug and also just, the entire contents of Scarleteen.
BBCC
Can Scarleteen compile its articles into a book? I’m sue there’s a market for it.
Opus the Poet
Erika Moen has put much of her comic on the same subject into book form on Oh Joy Sex Toy. Sometimes the pictures are illustrations of what to do or NOT to do. Some UU churches are using them as adjunct texts for OWL adult sex ed.
Roborat
The “Boo! it’s Sex” webtoon team up by Danielle Corsetto and Monica Gallagher is also a well written, well disguised sex ed primer, as is Futari Ecchi, which does a great job of compensating for Japan’s terrible track record on sex ed.
Wizard
Given her background, it’s hardly surprising that she still thinks she does.
Positron
I don’t think she wanted absolution for her desire in and of itself, I think she was fantasizing about Dina being so turned on that her (token, important to emphasize) objections would be ignored, allowing her to have that experience while still technically expressing an interest in staying chaste.
BBCC
I know, but the fact she feels so bad about ADMITTING she wants it makes me sad.
Meagan
And this is where the whole “women say no but mean yes” thing comes from. There was a time when it wasn’t safe, socially speaking, for women to admit to wanting sex (and for some, like Becky and Joyce, it is still true). So there is a truth to the idea. The problem is that 1) you can’t know for sure when this is the case and 1a) there’s a bias toward interpreting things that way if it is in one’s own interests and 2) the culture has changed and it is much safer for women to say “yes” without social reprisal, therefore “no” is more likely to always mean no (and not be a token, socially obligated “no”) but somehow the concept that women still do this all the time endures.
Mister Afro
Funny how you mention that, because there’s a similar plot point going on in another webcomic called “Alfie.” There’s a character who is essentially another Mary, but was about to bone down with someone. She says no, and he actually stops. When she counters him with “you didn’t have to stop,” he counters with “I no play games.”
Meagan
Nice. Yeah, that is definitely best practice. I realized another aspect of this too, which is that if someone is saying no and wants it to be ignored, that is almost never wholehearted. Like, it is really an indication of mixed feelings, which is bound to lead to emotional turmoil of some sort. Like Becky here, she’s saying that she kinda wishes Dina would just ravish her despite any objections, but if that actually happened, she would probably feel at best ambivalent during or at least after. Hence, beat practice is to take no literally all the time as per your webcomic reference.
TemperaryObsessor
I feel like middle name Ryan was on some level using that as an excuse.
The thing is even if fear of social consequences leads to false nos I think most of the time you will end up with some combination of the following situations if you push past a no.
1. You ignore their stated desires and give them what they really want, now its what they wanted but they now know you don’t respect their bonderies.
2. You ignore their stated desires and give them what they really want, they know you knew they wanted you to ignore their no and now face the consequences they were trying to avoid by saying no.
3. You ignored their stated desires which were their actual desires you f-ing rapist.
thejeff
On some level perhaps – he does call her a tease.
Mostly not though – he didn’t ask, he didn’t make a pass, he didn’t even find out her desires. His plan was to isolate and drug her from the start.
Adam Black
This is literally why safe words exist. as an AllStop
Sometimes people use no when they mean “slow down” or ‘not that’ or
“not that right now” .
thejeff
Not really. Similar in some cases, but basically anyone stuck in the mindset of “I have to protest for form’s sake, but I really want to continue” isn’t going to up on safe word culture.
Felian
THIS is exactly how i reasoned when I was a fundie christian teenager. Feels relieving to read that here, so it wasn’t just me. Sometimes it still haunts me. It’s actually ridiculously hypocritical, but it helped in reconciling what i thought of as good morals with sexual desires thatitotallydidnothaveatallbecausei’magoodgirl 😉
Meagan
I’m glad I articulated something that connected to your experience. It is actually relieving to me to see this because I feared I’d get a lot of push back for not staying “on message” that no always means no. But we need to acknowledge nuance and complexity in these Dynamics.
shadowcell
Becky and Dina Decide Not to Perform a Sex, At Least For the Time Being
LeslieBean4shizzle
I was pretty sure they weren’t ready for that yet – or that Becky at least wasn’t.
Now, performing a Heavy Petting… well, I was kinda hoping she was ready for that. Second Base is a wonderful place.
Nono
But according to Dina, first base is holding hands.
(Admittedly, as someone who was never really given The Talk or interested in dating as a teenager, I still remain ignorant of the base system.)
John
There’s an xkcd for that.
woobie
xkcd is incorrect per my growing up location.
Tim
Gods I wanted to be in right field so hard in the 90s.
Opus the Poet
Holding hands is Up To Bat, kissing is First Base, touching breasts above or under clothing is Second Base, touching bare genitals under clothing or pants/underwear pulled down was third, and PIV was a Home Run. Oral sex was considered a myth when I was growing up so not included in the “Base System.
LeslieBean4shizzle
A… myth?
… The Legend of Oral Sex.
Meagan
Yeah, im like, you can still do…stuff…can’t you?
Felian
!!! but stuff will lead to STUFF!!!
;D
Meagan
Hilarious! But they make out don’t they?
PHNX
Way to simultaneously be integritous(?) AND a cop-out, there, Bex.
No Name
She’s acting with integrity, but she has so many regrets!
…
Too soon?
AeromechanicalAce
Nah, Ruth’s not Dead anymore, it’s cool.
emeraldbeacon
When you do the right thing, while wishing you’d done the the wrong thing?
Integregrets?
Abdomino
Maturity
PHNX
Overrated.
Jess
Aww. They’re both very sweet.
Kravis
When they finally DO IT, there’s no doubt they’ll do it on top on the plush thingy.
Mada
Responsibility Absolving Mating Frenzy should be the title of their slipshine.
auroki
That’s what I’m gonna call it if I ever decide to havr kids and tell my family afterwards
Tacos
Makes a great band name also.
p!enapple
Dina’s sooooo cuuuuute!! and i rarely say that lol thank you for deawing her soooo adorably!!
Kyrik Michalowski
Well my dreams are crushed for now but maybe one day they will be realized. In the mean time, I wonder where Sal is right now?
Lux
This was oddly wholesome, I have to admit.
AeromechanicalAce
I suspect that Becky will change her mind in the post adrenaline rush after whatever shit Ross and Blaine are planning goes down.
That said, Good on Dina for being understanding.
Axel
I hope not, I think she might regret it.
(ONLY if it’s for that reason, either because it being reactionary will somehow taint it for her or because she’ll feel she rushed. If she did it at exactly the same time but for another reason, it’s fine.)
Sporky
Hair Monster Becky in panels 3 and 4 is super adorbs
Bagge
Of all cute Beckies, her hiding behind her hair might be the cutest
ValdVin