It will be some arc when she finally confronts the fact she’s probably autistic herself. A task that’s difficult but well worth it (believe me, I know)
Doopyboop
I definitely agree that she is at least some flavor of neurodivergent herself if not outright autistic. If she thinks having PTSD would keep her from becoming President than she would definitely combust over a diagnosis like that.
Needfuldoer
She’s keenly aware of the possibility and its implications, which could make her actively avoid a diagnosis so she doesn’t catch the label. (She’s already sabotaging her own therapy sessions to save her future self’s image.)
I know that it’s not good healthwise. But a diagnosis isn’t just a label that might hurt a presidential candidate’s image.
In Missouri, the AG made an emergency rule that trans people couldn’t get gender affirming care until “providers ensured that any existing mental health comorbidities of the patient have been treated and resolved”. Dorothy’s not trans, but it’s plausible the GOP will strip someone’s rights if they have a depression or PTSD or autism diagnosis, because they are already doing it.
Okay, as an autistic person I gotta say that calling this specific moment “ableist” is a huge exaggeration. At worst it is just a bit cringe but we’ll intentioned.
Yeah, what’s going on with Dorothy is that she’s modeling herself on expectations for the majority of politicians in the white establishment who are a lot more likely to work on *behalf* of minorities instead of with us.
If she truly desires to help people, she needs to see the race for presidency for what it really IS as opposed to what it’s *supposed* to be. She must renounce magical thinking and embrace empirical evidence.
UrsulaDavina
Since when have politicians embraced anything resembling empirical evidence? Not just the US it’s in every nation and it extends across the political spectrum.
Psychie
Insofar as the successful ones are the ones who get good at “playing the game”, I’d argue they embrace empirical evidence in at least one case, at that is “what works”. The way you succeed in politics is pretty well documented, and Dorothy is missing it, while the successful politicians are not.
UrsulaDavina
Depends on the empirical evidence if such empirical evidence runs contrary to their political views or what their constituents and or parties opinion, they are more then willing to ignore it.
Psychie
No, you’re generalizing, I’m talking about a very specific thing. They do whatever is needed to get ahead in the polls, most relevantly lies and deceit. Plenty of historical evidence backs up that having a flexible relationship with the truth and compromising morality to get ahead is what works, and successful politicians do that, as they have been doing for centuries. Studies have been done on this, history shows it works consistently, and so it’s what successful politicians learn to get very good at, because it demonstrably works. That literally means they follow empirical evidence, at least in this one specific area. You are welcome to have a low opinion of politicians, they’ve certainly done enough to deserve it, but you are letting your bias cloud your comprehension of the facts.
Genuinely honest politicians rarely get very far, and the only time a dishonest politician deals in the truth is when it specifically benefits them, or when they’ve been caught in their deceptions and have no other choice if they want to try to salvage things. Dishonest politicians are competent, at least in this specific area if nowhere else, and to try to downplay how deliberate and studied they are in their deception is to underestimate them.
Don’t confuse your bias with reality, that’s how you get taken advantage of.
The reason I didn’t say specifically regarding politics is because, with Dorothy starting to realize her dreams of Presidency are a bit… unrealistic, she’s probably gonna have to change her career path. I think Dorothy would enjoy any sort of job that’s in service of people and helping to use her diplomatic skills, but man she’s really gotta get out of her head when it comes to interacting with people she’s not used to if this is how she treats someone who is autistic.
Psychie
Meh, there’s a learning curve, she figured out her friend probably has autism, so she did a LOT of reading, and now she’s having trouble separating what she read about autism cases with what she knows about her friend. It’s the same nonsense that has first year psych students diagnosing themselves and their acquaintances with half the DSM after they’ve read it the first time. I’ve found that a lot of people who value having a high empathy as part of their personality tend to fall into that trap. Thankfully it isn’t that hard to get them out of it with a solid dose of reality, at least so long as they aren’t the arrogant or narcissistic type of helpers (and I’m fairly certain Dorothy isn’t).
Besides, this particular instance isn’t as unwarranted as some people are making it out to be, Joyce started acting weird right after Dorothy touched her, Dorothy just spent a bunch of time reading about autism after learning Joyce might have it, so it isn’t much of a leap for her brain to think those are dots to connect when they aren’t.
Shade
Given how quickly she backed off the Joe thing despite having a lot of background knowledge about what he used to be like when she finally actually saw how they were together, yeah I think she’ll be able to handle getting out of that trap.
She’s clearly capable of recognising when she’s wrong sooner or later and correcting.
Mark
A couple of things to notice: (1) Dorothy had no evidence that those dots don’t connect until after she touched Joyce, advanced a hypothesis and heard it denied; (2) Joyce hasn’t offered any evidence supporting any other hypothesis. An unsupported denial is a fairly weak argument, and takes longer to sink in.
Doopyboop
1) Dorothy has also known Joyce for 5 months and that is enough time to discern whether your friend usually likes to be touched or not.
2) Most people might not appreciate being touched on the small of their back and pushed further to the ground, albeit in a gentle manner, without a proper warning or knowledge that such a thing is happening.
if anything given the way walky basically joked about joyce having a girlcrush on dorothy she’d prolly love touching/being touch starved more than the opposite
(well i woudln’t want a strnager touching me but i def am physically clingy to my friends)
Also, is Joyce saying “and 6 and 7,” or is that “and 5 and 7”? I’m pretty sure it’s a 5.
HueSatLight
zoomed in, it looks like a 6 to me. But I like the idea of her skipping from 5 to 7 because she’s a little startled.
HueSatLight
hmm… how did this happen?
BarerMender
Or because she’s shortening the count on purpose.
HueSatLight
zoomed in, it looks like a 6 to me. But I like the idea of her skipping from 5 to 7 because she’s a little startled and distracted by having to say she’s not startled so Dorothy doesn’t make a bigger deal out of it.
feels like it’s shrunk, or it’s the same font but a smaller size/not bolded or so (idk if willis has a set font for his comics or made a font out of his own handwriting)
I don’t think you understand her character very well at all.
Is it possible you’re projecting people who are like that onto a character whose not, based on some similar seeming behaviours that have completely different motivations and come from a different intent?
Yes some people talk about the things they read to try and flex and show off.
Here we have someone rambling and putting their foot in their mouth.
Mark
Indeed. “Oops, I got this wrong, and compounded it by trying to explain. Leave mouth in free-running mode while I think.”
The thing is she thought she had it was a miscommunication on that front. She thought Joyce understood what she meant and then was thrown off by what she assumed was a change in Joyce’s boundaries.
The fault is still entirely hers of course and she could be handling this a lot better.
She could be handling this better, but she’s not handling it that badly. She thought she’d communicated correctly about touching Joyce, pulled back when she realized otherwise.
She’s over explaining and digging herself deeper, but that’s understandable.
Tan
Dorothy saw something she could help with, but realized she she needed Joyce’s consent before doing so, so asked for it (that’s good!). There was a miscommunication what exactly she was asking (that’s bad, but an honest mistake). Dorothy realized she made a mistake, stopped, and tried to figure out what the mistake was (that’s good!). She further mistakenly connected the dots between this and something she read (that’s bad), then verbalized to confirm (that’s good!). When Joyce denied it, Dorothy discarded the notion (that’s good!).
So yeah, a lot of missteps, and ones she should really offer an apology for, but mistakes are how we learn and grow.
258 thoughts on “Startled”
Ana Chronistic
*looks at the equipment* “make that a seventh wheel”
Decidedly Orthogonal
Floor and ceiling, eight, ninth wheel.
1, 2 walls, 10, 11th wheel.
3rd, fourth wall… oh fuck!
PirateTawnee
Another (rightful and expected) blow to the “more doors than wheels” faction. Gosh that was a weird week in internet history.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Do you count hinges as wheels? (as they allow the door to roll/rotate)
Doopyboop
Dorothy if you’re gonna go into a job relating to people you really gotta learn how to stop being so ableist.
Bryy
YUP.
FUCKING YUP.
YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP.
NGPZ
It will be some arc when she finally confronts the fact she’s probably autistic herself. A task that’s difficult but well worth it (believe me, I know)
Doopyboop
I definitely agree that she is at least some flavor of neurodivergent herself if not outright autistic. If she thinks having PTSD would keep her from becoming President than she would definitely combust over a diagnosis like that.
Needfuldoer
She’s keenly aware of the possibility and its implications, which could make her actively avoid a diagnosis so she doesn’t catch the label. (She’s already sabotaging her own therapy sessions to save her future self’s image.)
https://www.dumbingofage.com/inwithyou/
HueSatLight
I know that it’s not good healthwise. But a diagnosis isn’t just a label that might hurt a presidential candidate’s image.
In Missouri, the AG made an emergency rule that trans people couldn’t get gender affirming care until “providers ensured that any existing mental health comorbidities of the patient have been treated and resolved”. Dorothy’s not trans, but it’s plausible the GOP will strip someone’s rights if they have a depression or PTSD or autism diagnosis, because they are already doing it.
Needfuldoer
If anyone needs me, I’ll be in the angry dome.
NGPZ
I feel much the same, can I join you?
Jeremiah
Okay, as an autistic person I gotta say that calling this specific moment “ableist” is a huge exaggeration. At worst it is just a bit cringe but we’ll intentioned.
Thag Simmons
Eh, that’s not really a dealbreaker in US politics.
NGPZ
Yeah, what’s going on with Dorothy is that she’s modeling herself on expectations for the majority of politicians in the white establishment who are a lot more likely to work on *behalf* of minorities instead of with us.
If she truly desires to help people, she needs to see the race for presidency for what it really IS as opposed to what it’s *supposed* to be. She must renounce magical thinking and embrace empirical evidence.
UrsulaDavina
Since when have politicians embraced anything resembling empirical evidence? Not just the US it’s in every nation and it extends across the political spectrum.
Psychie
Insofar as the successful ones are the ones who get good at “playing the game”, I’d argue they embrace empirical evidence in at least one case, at that is “what works”. The way you succeed in politics is pretty well documented, and Dorothy is missing it, while the successful politicians are not.
UrsulaDavina
Depends on the empirical evidence if such empirical evidence runs contrary to their political views or what their constituents and or parties opinion, they are more then willing to ignore it.
Psychie
No, you’re generalizing, I’m talking about a very specific thing. They do whatever is needed to get ahead in the polls, most relevantly lies and deceit. Plenty of historical evidence backs up that having a flexible relationship with the truth and compromising morality to get ahead is what works, and successful politicians do that, as they have been doing for centuries. Studies have been done on this, history shows it works consistently, and so it’s what successful politicians learn to get very good at, because it demonstrably works. That literally means they follow empirical evidence, at least in this one specific area. You are welcome to have a low opinion of politicians, they’ve certainly done enough to deserve it, but you are letting your bias cloud your comprehension of the facts.
Genuinely honest politicians rarely get very far, and the only time a dishonest politician deals in the truth is when it specifically benefits them, or when they’ve been caught in their deceptions and have no other choice if they want to try to salvage things. Dishonest politicians are competent, at least in this specific area if nowhere else, and to try to downplay how deliberate and studied they are in their deception is to underestimate them.
Don’t confuse your bias with reality, that’s how you get taken advantage of.
Doopyboop
The reason I didn’t say specifically regarding politics is because, with Dorothy starting to realize her dreams of Presidency are a bit… unrealistic, she’s probably gonna have to change her career path. I think Dorothy would enjoy any sort of job that’s in service of people and helping to use her diplomatic skills, but man she’s really gotta get out of her head when it comes to interacting with people she’s not used to if this is how she treats someone who is autistic.
Psychie
Meh, there’s a learning curve, she figured out her friend probably has autism, so she did a LOT of reading, and now she’s having trouble separating what she read about autism cases with what she knows about her friend. It’s the same nonsense that has first year psych students diagnosing themselves and their acquaintances with half the DSM after they’ve read it the first time. I’ve found that a lot of people who value having a high empathy as part of their personality tend to fall into that trap. Thankfully it isn’t that hard to get them out of it with a solid dose of reality, at least so long as they aren’t the arrogant or narcissistic type of helpers (and I’m fairly certain Dorothy isn’t).
Besides, this particular instance isn’t as unwarranted as some people are making it out to be, Joyce started acting weird right after Dorothy touched her, Dorothy just spent a bunch of time reading about autism after learning Joyce might have it, so it isn’t much of a leap for her brain to think those are dots to connect when they aren’t.
Shade
Given how quickly she backed off the Joe thing despite having a lot of background knowledge about what he used to be like when she finally actually saw how they were together, yeah I think she’ll be able to handle getting out of that trap.
She’s clearly capable of recognising when she’s wrong sooner or later and correcting.
Mark
A couple of things to notice: (1) Dorothy had no evidence that those dots don’t connect until after she touched Joyce, advanced a hypothesis and heard it denied; (2) Joyce hasn’t offered any evidence supporting any other hypothesis. An unsupported denial is a fairly weak argument, and takes longer to sink in.
Doopyboop
1) Dorothy has also known Joyce for 5 months and that is enough time to discern whether your friend usually likes to be touched or not.
2) Most people might not appreciate being touched on the small of their back and pushed further to the ground, albeit in a gentle manner, without a proper warning or knowledge that such a thing is happening.
AbacusWizard
* laugh-cries in American *
Alongcameaspider
If anything it might help her
GreyICE
In a closed society where everybody’s guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. – RIP HST
Angel
if anything given the way walky basically joked about joyce having a girlcrush on dorothy she’d prolly love touching/being touch starved more than the opposite
(well i woudln’t want a strnager touching me but i def am physically clingy to my friends)
Slartibeast Button, BIA
“Who are *They*?”
‘They are anyone who wants to be one of Them.’
Mark
“They” are anybody We don’t want to be one of Us.
Ty34er
Does the font look weird on this one?
Slartibeast Button, BIA
It does to me.
Slartibeast Button, BIA
Like everything was bold before and now it isn’t.
Cattleprod
Yeah, I was checking the comments to see if anyone else noticed that.
Vanessa
It is harder to read, very light. And looks a bit jagged or pixelated.
HueSatLight
It’s lighter weight. Like the weight from the small text (Joyce counting) was accidentally applied to all of it.
BarerMender
Also, is Joyce saying “and 6 and 7,” or is that “and 5 and 7”? I’m pretty sure it’s a 5.
HueSatLight
zoomed in, it looks like a 6 to me. But I like the idea of her skipping from 5 to 7 because she’s a little startled.
HueSatLight
hmm… how did this happen?
BarerMender
Or because she’s shortening the count on purpose.
HueSatLight
zoomed in, it looks like a 6 to me. But I like the idea of her skipping from 5 to 7 because she’s a little startled and distracted by having to say she’s not startled so Dorothy doesn’t make a bigger deal out of it.
RassilonTDavros
The lineart gets thinner between panels 2 and 3 as well. A preview of art shifts to come, perhaps?
AbacusWizard
I think the shading and/or coloring is different? but I’m not entirely sure how to describe the difference.
Mark
It’s a holiday weekend. The graphics are stuffed with turkey and a little sleepy.
Doopyboop
Thank god it’s not just me, all the text looks skinnier and thinner and it almost gives me a headache to look at.
EpochFlame
Yeah, was setting if anyone else noticed
AbacusWizard
Yes. Or *different*, at least.
Taffy
Very. It looks like somebody took white-out over existing text and penciled in their own dialogue.
NGPZ
Yeah, looks like the product of an edit or something ?_?
Amós Batista
It’s funny, because the font is tinnier than yesterday, and draw contour is thicker since last year (comparing with two years ago)
Angel
feels like it’s shrunk, or it’s the same font but a smaller size/not bolded or so (idk if willis has a set font for his comics or made a font out of his own handwriting)
Diane
I noticed this too. I thought they were whispering or something, but none of that makes sense. Maybe a line or two, but not the entire conversation.
Needfuldoer
I think this one was somehow scaled differently. The linework in the art came out smoother, but it made the text a little fuzzier.
Amara
I don’t think I’ve ever seen Dorothy be quite so foot in mouth as todays strip. That wasn’t very cash money of you.
Bryy
The “with my hands” is a dead giveaway that she wants to impress. And knowing Dotty, impress translates into dominate.
Tan
Truly you have a dizzying understanding of these characters
Shade
I don’t think you understand her character very well at all.
Is it possible you’re projecting people who are like that onto a character whose not, based on some similar seeming behaviours that have completely different motivations and come from a different intent?
Yes some people talk about the things they read to try and flex and show off.
Here we have someone rambling and putting their foot in their mouth.
Mark
Indeed. “Oops, I got this wrong, and compounded it by trying to explain. Leave mouth in free-running mode while I think.”
I hate when that happens.
NGPZ
Well Dorothy, you shouldn’t touch without asking regardless.
But yes, some autistic folk do have aversion to touch without consent.
I know I do. Albeit I very much anticipate consensual touch from my future GF (*sigh*)
Masumi
Well, she did ask, just not very understandably how she meant it.
Azhrei Vep
And so do some who don’t! Because it’s awful and sucks, how do you other people tolerate it? Eugh. Gives me the willies. Gross willies.
Shade
The thing is she thought she had it was a miscommunication on that front. She thought Joyce understood what she meant and then was thrown off by what she assumed was a change in Joyce’s boundaries.
The fault is still entirely hers of course and she could be handling this a lot better.
thejeff
She could be handling this better, but she’s not handling it that badly. She thought she’d communicated correctly about touching Joyce, pulled back when she realized otherwise.
She’s over explaining and digging herself deeper, but that’s understandable.
Tan
Dorothy saw something she could help with, but realized she she needed Joyce’s consent before doing so, so asked for it (that’s good!). There was a miscommunication what exactly she was asking (that’s bad, but an honest mistake). Dorothy realized she made a mistake, stopped, and tried to figure out what the mistake was (that’s good!). She further mistakenly connected the dots between this and something she read (that’s bad), then verbalized to confirm (that’s good!). When Joyce denied it, Dorothy discarded the notion (that’s good!).
So yeah, a lot of missteps, and ones she should really offer an apology for, but mistakes are how we learn and grow.
ProtoMan
Yeah I was gonna say, I think that “yo, don’t just touch me out of nowhere” is hardly a thing that’s restricted to autistic people.
Stephen Bierce
“I’ll plead the Fifth.”
Slartibeast Button, BIA
Make mine a quart.
Bryy
Literally could not wait to try that one out, could you, Dotty?
Jo_Cubstar
What are you even talking about?
Bryy
Non-disabled people love to flaunt how they “know stuff”.
eh, whatever
Dorothy doesn’t flaunt; she’s not social enough to have that concept available!
The knowledge just gushes forth from her, and she doesn’t think of considering the occasion and stopping it.