Honestly, divorce would be a lot easier to deal with if everyone got to take a cool video game home as a consolation prize. Like losing on a game show.
Judge: “Our contestants lost at marriage today, but they each get to take home a copy of System Shock, a year’s supply of Rice-A-Roni, and a set of hubcaps.”
My parents stayed together till the end, but I had nightmares about them divorcing, when I was away in the military. I’d come home and it’d just be my mom, with seven new little brothers and sisters. I already had eight. Oddly, they were always brown.
In the navy, you can sail the seven seas. In the navy, your parents run away with ease.
brionl
Well actually, I knew they were *going* to move. But I went home on leave one time and didn’t realize that they already had moved until I got there and the house was empty.
My parents’ separation and subsequent divorce was such a relief for me. I regularly have nightmares about them getting back together.
Enkrod
My parents were fighting every day. Every. Day. And it hurt me as a child badly, I went to sleep at least twice a week with real, painful, physical heartache. It was soooo much better when they separated and for my sake, they did everything to keep it amicably.
They did have a prenub, so there wasn’t much fighting involved over who got what (at least I did not notice much) and it really helped their relationship with each other as parents.
That was 25 years ago… last year all 4 of my parents started to vacation together, they’re all pensioners so they have much free time and both sides own caravans, so their interest in campsites are similar. It’s still blowing my mind, they get along so well, that they voluntarily spend their free time with each other and each others new husband and wife, without me even there.
WTF is going on?
Pergola
There’s an anime you should try. It’s called “Marmalade Boy”.
BarerMender
There’s a movie. It’s called Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice.
Felian
tbh i WISH my parents would get a divorce. They aren’t even actively fighting, they’re just…. lukewarm and not interested in each other anymore. I think they would both be happier in the long run without each other.
But they’ve been together for 35 years, so….. i also understand that that would be a super scary situation for them to go through. Especially since lots of their friends are Christian and Judgmental.
But hopefully (temporarily disregarding that factule about the most dangerous time statistically being right after you leave an abuser, assuming we’re talking physical abuse) afterwards you get to heal and recover physically/emotionally/financially, and rebuild a better life where you get to be safe.
But yeah. That doesn’t mean that “just leaving” is easy, safe, or risk-free ?
Divorce sucks, even when you are escaping abuse. It sucks worse when the abuse has been mental and emotional and no one believes it occurred because your abuser knows how to lie and manipulate.
It can suck and still be the right thing to do. It can suck and still save you. I lost more than half my friends in the divorce, probably close to 3 quarters of them. Both our families were mad at me – even though his KNEW it was the right thing for me to do. I had like 2 people in my corner at the time and everyone was either mad at me or at best neutral and disappointed. He had all the support in the world while stealing from me and cheating on me and telling everyone that I was holding him back.
Want to know what doesn’t suck? A decade later, when you are living your best life and someone who did not believe you contacts you out of the blue to apologize for not believing you.
100% Yes other things around it sucks, but in this scenario it’s a trolley problem. On one track is a life of physical and emotional abuse, suicidal ideation, degraded opportunity in life, and earlier death, on the other track is a life free of that where you (as the kid) or your kids AND you get to experience love free of abuse, living free of wanting to die every. single. day. and not having to wonder what invented chaos is waiting for you when you walk in the door each day.
My parent’s divorce saved me from my mother’s abuse (more than them being together possibly could have). My divorce has saved me from suicidal ideation. And it’s allowing me to provide my kids a safe space where they can know unconditional love and acceptance.
I’ve had pneumonia twice in my life. Both times was right before I finally stopped investing in relationships that had become highly abusive. Divorce, even with all the costs and headaches, is literally life-saving.
And for the cases where people *aren’t* abusive? Do you think they should stay together until the above are their choices?
Naw. Divorce doesn’t suck. But the alternatives sure do.
Tbh, even as someone whose parents stayed together when they really shouldn’t have, I have to push back: sometimes all the viable options are bad (fraught, stressful, overwhelming, traumatic, etc) and you’re left picking the least bad. Bankruptcy sucks, but it’s better than dealing with insurmountable debt. Amputation sucks, but it’s better than leaving osteosarcoma to fester. Putting abusive parents on an information diet sucks, but it’s better than giving them ammunition to continue behaving abusively.
It’s okay for folks to feel that divorce sucks and that it’s lifesaving. Both of these can be true.
Just had a terrible break up with my abusive ex and I can confirm that there is no such thing as a good split from terrible people. While better than the alternative, the sort of harm they can and will do to you in your attempt to escape can carry with you for years.
Joyce needed to hear her say “you’re more important to me than anything”, but she’ll never say it, because the church as an institution takes precedence over anything else in Carol’s world.
That’s what made the strip the other day so heart-wrenching to me; Joyce knew she wasn’t going to get the answer she wanted to hear, but had to ask anyway.
The process is unnecessarily long and fraught with ill emotions. It should be easy like Steve Martin’s version of breaking up: “You say, ‘I break with thee, I break with thee’, and then throw dog poop on her shoes.”
See? Easy-peasy!
Azhrei Vep
Depends on how you do it. I managed to pull it off in about a month, and good riddance.
Things can be better after divorce, but that doesn’t stop it from still being sucky. It is merely the least sucky option.
Also I’d argue the ‘divorce sucks’ sentiment isn’t only about the finalization of the divorce, but also the general state of affairs leading to that divorce.
Divorce rarely happens because things are going well after all. It’s not just the actual parting that sucks, but also the loss of the ability to be happy together.
It’s not that half of every married couples break up though. Most people stay married. It’s just that if you have one divorce and get married again you’re more likely to get divorced again, and so on. Some people have 3-4 or more divorces in their lifetime.
Thr 50% Stat is also not true anymore, and depending which source you look at, may have never been true. I did a quick Google and got a bunch of articles from a few years ago, but it seems like the number is more like 40%, even including the people go get divorced repeatedly.
Arillius
Marriage rates are down significantly, however, as newer generations learn a bit from the example set.
The 50% stat is actually an underestimate, not an overestimate. Roughly 50% of all *first marriages* end in divorce, although that percent has gone down somewhat of late…
Meanwhile almost 2/3rds of 2nd marriages end in divorce, and the percentage keeps going up for tertiary, etc marriages. The aggregate is well above 50%, even though the first- marriage divorce rate has gone down somewhat.
Mind you, a huge percentage of the decrease in first marriage divorce has nothing to do with divorce, and everything to do with the massive decrease in marriage rate- basically most people are just opting to live with their SO, and only the most “certain” are choosing marriage.
milu
“only the most “certain” are choosing marriage.”
hm. does it have to do with “certainty” really?
my hypothesis would be it depends on religiosity. communities where marriage is more strongly encouraged tend to also be those where divorce is least tolerated.
another hypothesis i have is, it depends on wealth/socioeconomic class. maybe marriage still makes sense in some classes (either very rich or very poor), and the reasons for entering into marriage would mostly hold true throughout life and therefore also make divorcing less likely.
but i don’t actually know, it’s just that “certainty” feels like a dodgy yardstick of marriage durability.
Mano308gts
I chose the word “certain”only as a placeholder (a variety of other word choices could be used in its place), hence the quotation marks.
Basically, most people are not opting to get married, but the people who feel very strongly about it; either from a religious perspective, or from a personal belief in the solidity of their relationship (“I know this person is the one I want to spend the rest of my life with!”), are still choosing to get married.
In either case, those people are less likely to become divorced than marriages of convenience and/or marriage based on a weakly held sense of it being the right thing- such as shotgun marriages (which do still occur quite often).
milu
i get that you were using “certain” loosely but i’m saying the reasons might not be to do with feelings at all but with external pressure or legal-financial concerns.
anecdotally, many of the weddings that happened in my friend circle the last few years had to do with residency, one of the spouse’s being from the EU and the other holding some less, ah, convenient passport, say senegalese or colombian. this sort of weddings i’d say are as likely as any to end in divorce because in all the countries i mentioned the law essentially allows the foreign spouse to keep their residency after the divorce… for now at least.
That stat was actually about the marriage and divorce rates. When it was cited, the divorce rate was 50% of the marriage rate. there were half as many divorces happening as marriages, At That Time. obviously, the divorcees had been married Some amount of the time in the past, and the fates of the marriages that built that statistic were as yet unknown.
Because a given couple’s marriage and divorce are separated by an often substantial amount of time, any stat about how many marriages end in divorce is necessarily based on old data.
Now, x percent of marriages signed in 2020 had already ended in divorce by 2023, that’s a stat that might be current.
Also, divorce rates went up drastically with the advent of no-fault divorce because it was now more accessible and legal to leave marriages you were unhappy with, as opposed to having to prove abuse or unfaithfulness or whatever other handful of allowed circumstances there were in whatever state you were in.
214 thoughts on “Support”
Ana Chronistic
“and in my experience, everyone in a divorce gets fallout”
True Survivor
That’s what happens when split a nuclear family.
Felian
i feel bad for thinking that is an amazing play on the concept 😀
Doctor_Who
Honestly, divorce would be a lot easier to deal with if everyone got to take a cool video game home as a consolation prize. Like losing on a game show.
Judge: “Our contestants lost at marriage today, but they each get to take home a copy of System Shock, a year’s supply of Rice-A-Roni, and a set of hubcaps.”
Cholma
Oh man! System Shock *and* The San Francisco treat?! I’m going to go get married just so I can get a divorce! Aww yeah!
Slartibeast Button, BIA
When my wife left I bought a Playstation and played Air Combat 18 hours a day for a week.
BarerMender
My parents stayed together till the end, but I had nightmares about them divorcing, when I was away in the military. I’d come home and it’d just be my mom, with seven new little brothers and sisters. I already had eight. Oddly, they were always brown.
brionl
Well, when I was in the US Navy my parents moved to another state without telling me.
Queen Anthai
hi quick question
what the hell
Furie
In the navy, you can sail the seven seas. In the navy, your parents run away with ease.
brionl
Well actually, I knew they were *going* to move. But I went home on leave one time and didn’t realize that they already had moved until I got there and the house was empty.
BarerMender
Man, that’s cold.
Feathers
My parents’ separation and subsequent divorce was such a relief for me. I regularly have nightmares about them getting back together.
Enkrod
My parents were fighting every day. Every. Day. And it hurt me as a child badly, I went to sleep at least twice a week with real, painful, physical heartache. It was soooo much better when they separated and for my sake, they did everything to keep it amicably.
They did have a prenub, so there wasn’t much fighting involved over who got what (at least I did not notice much) and it really helped their relationship with each other as parents.
That was 25 years ago… last year all 4 of my parents started to vacation together, they’re all pensioners so they have much free time and both sides own caravans, so their interest in campsites are similar. It’s still blowing my mind, they get along so well, that they voluntarily spend their free time with each other and each others new husband and wife, without me even there.
WTF is going on?
Pergola
There’s an anime you should try. It’s called “Marmalade Boy”.
BarerMender
There’s a movie. It’s called Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice.
Felian
tbh i WISH my parents would get a divorce. They aren’t even actively fighting, they’re just…. lukewarm and not interested in each other anymore. I think they would both be happier in the long run without each other.
But they’ve been together for 35 years, so….. i also understand that that would be a super scary situation for them to go through. Especially since lots of their friends are Christian and Judgmental.
Mr D
Fallout 2? 3? New Vegas? 4? 76?
Nedlum
76, because divorce sucks.
Roborat
I knew someone would bite on the fallout comment. And I was not disappointed.
Paradox
Only if the divorce is caused by something/someone
No-fault divorces are usually pretty chill
Ana Chronistic
Joe has not had that experience
Opus the Poet
“Divorce sucks, unless you’re escaping an abusive fucker.”
Animedingo
No, honestly it still sucks even then.
DailyBrad
Yeah, I mean, moving sucks, and you often have to move post-divorce, among other complications, before even getting into the emotional aspects.
Peter
Agreed. I’m very happy to be out of that abusive relationship, but the economic and emotional scars will never fade.
Steve C
Seconded
Miri
But hopefully (temporarily disregarding that factule about the most dangerous time statistically being right after you leave an abuser, assuming we’re talking physical abuse) afterwards you get to heal and recover physically/emotionally/financially, and rebuild a better life where you get to be safe.
But yeah. That doesn’t mean that “just leaving” is easy, safe, or risk-free ?
RassilonTDavros
I mean, it can both be a necessary change that is preferable to the alternative and suck nevertheless.
Jo_cubstar
Can confirm, it still sucks then.
Dara
Absolutely fucking endorsed. Goddamn party time it was.
Reltzik
I am willing to grant it the status of “lesser of two suctions”.
…
YES THAT IS TOO HOW YOU NOUN THAT VERB.
Needfuldoer
Verbing weirds language.
Clif
English is weird enough already. Trust me, no one will notice.
Maveric1984
Some kid named Calvin told me that once…
Golden Yak
Divorce sucks, even when you need it.
Arioch
Divorce sucks, even when you are escaping abuse. It sucks worse when the abuse has been mental and emotional and no one believes it occurred because your abuser knows how to lie and manipulate.
It can suck and still be the right thing to do. It can suck and still save you. I lost more than half my friends in the divorce, probably close to 3 quarters of them. Both our families were mad at me – even though his KNEW it was the right thing for me to do. I had like 2 people in my corner at the time and everyone was either mad at me or at best neutral and disappointed. He had all the support in the world while stealing from me and cheating on me and telling everyone that I was holding him back.
Want to know what doesn’t suck? A decade later, when you are living your best life and someone who did not believe you contacts you out of the blue to apologize for not believing you.
Decidedly Orthogonal
TW Bad shit
100% Yes other things around it sucks, but in this scenario it’s a trolley problem. On one track is a life of physical and emotional abuse, suicidal ideation, degraded opportunity in life, and earlier death, on the other track is a life free of that where you (as the kid) or your kids AND you get to experience love free of abuse, living free of wanting to die every. single. day. and not having to wonder what invented chaos is waiting for you when you walk in the door each day.
My parent’s divorce saved me from my mother’s abuse (more than them being together possibly could have). My divorce has saved me from suicidal ideation. And it’s allowing me to provide my kids a safe space where they can know unconditional love and acceptance.
I’ve had pneumonia twice in my life. Both times was right before I finally stopped investing in relationships that had become highly abusive. Divorce, even with all the costs and headaches, is literally life-saving.
And for the cases where people *aren’t* abusive? Do you think they should stay together until the above are their choices?
Naw. Divorce doesn’t suck. But the alternatives sure do.
ischemgeek
Tbh, even as someone whose parents stayed together when they really shouldn’t have, I have to push back: sometimes all the viable options are bad (fraught, stressful, overwhelming, traumatic, etc) and you’re left picking the least bad. Bankruptcy sucks, but it’s better than dealing with insurmountable debt. Amputation sucks, but it’s better than leaving osteosarcoma to fester. Putting abusive parents on an information diet sucks, but it’s better than giving them ammunition to continue behaving abusively.
It’s okay for folks to feel that divorce sucks and that it’s lifesaving. Both of these can be true.
Arillius
Just had a terrible break up with my abusive ex and I can confirm that there is no such thing as a good split from terrible people. While better than the alternative, the sort of harm they can and will do to you in your attempt to escape can carry with you for years.
ian livs
Oh man, that 2nd panel hits hard.
True Survivor
I know I feel so bad for Joyce. A need for a mother is primal and having one almost-sort-of abandon you like that must be soul wrenching.
Needfuldoer
Joyce needed to hear her say “you’re more important to me than anything”, but she’ll never say it, because the church as an institution takes precedence over anything else in Carol’s world.
That’s what made the strip the other day so heart-wrenching to me; Joyce knew she wasn’t going to get the answer she wanted to hear, but had to ask anyway.
Sirksome
Maybe for you two losers. I happen to know a few people that are better after divorce.
Sirksome
Divorce in general does kind of suck though.
Cholma
The process is unnecessarily long and fraught with ill emotions. It should be easy like Steve Martin’s version of breaking up: “You say, ‘I break with thee, I break with thee’, and then throw dog poop on her shoes.”
See? Easy-peasy!
Azhrei Vep
Depends on how you do it. I managed to pull it off in about a month, and good riddance.
Thag Simmons
It is often necessary and for the best, but it is rarely a pleasant experience for all involved
PhyrexianRogue
Things can be better after divorce, but that doesn’t stop it from still being sucky. It is merely the least sucky option.
Also I’d argue the ‘divorce sucks’ sentiment isn’t only about the finalization of the divorce, but also the general state of affairs leading to that divorce.
Divorce rarely happens because things are going well after all. It’s not just the actual parting that sucks, but also the loss of the ability to be happy together.
Wraithy2773
Divorce is like surgery: It sucks, but its sometimes required.
Daniel M Ball
Divorce, it’s like using a handgrenade to solve an argument-everyone around you gets hit with the shrapnel too.
V
wait is joe biting his lip in the first panel
V
“I love to see you go and I love to watch you leave.”
V
(I screwed up the html tags lol, only the “and” was supposed to be italicized)
Viktoria
It’s a little depressing that 50% of marriages end in divorce.
Of course, the other 50% end in death.
Sirksome
No one talks about all the couples that tragically die still married to each other.
Reltzik
How many end in annulment?
thumb
Luckily, Reitzik, 0% of all marriages end with an annulment. Retroactively, I mean.
nerdpants
i see and appreciate what you did, there.
eh, whatever
Almost none.
brionl
It’s not that half of every married couples break up though. Most people stay married. It’s just that if you have one divorce and get married again you’re more likely to get divorced again, and so on. Some people have 3-4 or more divorces in their lifetime.
Slartibeast Button, BIA
And others get married once, divorced once, and never try it again.
Dinajoyce
Thr 50% Stat is also not true anymore, and depending which source you look at, may have never been true. I did a quick Google and got a bunch of articles from a few years ago, but it seems like the number is more like 40%, even including the people go get divorced repeatedly.
Arillius
Marriage rates are down significantly, however, as newer generations learn a bit from the example set.
Mano308gts
The 50% stat is actually an underestimate, not an overestimate. Roughly 50% of all *first marriages* end in divorce, although that percent has gone down somewhat of late…
Meanwhile almost 2/3rds of 2nd marriages end in divorce, and the percentage keeps going up for tertiary, etc marriages. The aggregate is well above 50%, even though the first- marriage divorce rate has gone down somewhat.
Mind you, a huge percentage of the decrease in first marriage divorce has nothing to do with divorce, and everything to do with the massive decrease in marriage rate- basically most people are just opting to live with their SO, and only the most “certain” are choosing marriage.
milu
“only the most “certain” are choosing marriage.”
hm. does it have to do with “certainty” really?
my hypothesis would be it depends on religiosity. communities where marriage is more strongly encouraged tend to also be those where divorce is least tolerated.
another hypothesis i have is, it depends on wealth/socioeconomic class. maybe marriage still makes sense in some classes (either very rich or very poor), and the reasons for entering into marriage would mostly hold true throughout life and therefore also make divorcing less likely.
but i don’t actually know, it’s just that “certainty” feels like a dodgy yardstick of marriage durability.
Mano308gts
I chose the word “certain”only as a placeholder (a variety of other word choices could be used in its place), hence the quotation marks.
Basically, most people are not opting to get married, but the people who feel very strongly about it; either from a religious perspective, or from a personal belief in the solidity of their relationship (“I know this person is the one I want to spend the rest of my life with!”), are still choosing to get married.
In either case, those people are less likely to become divorced than marriages of convenience and/or marriage based on a weakly held sense of it being the right thing- such as shotgun marriages (which do still occur quite often).
milu
i get that you were using “certain” loosely but i’m saying the reasons might not be to do with feelings at all but with external pressure or legal-financial concerns.
anecdotally, many of the weddings that happened in my friend circle the last few years had to do with residency, one of the spouse’s being from the EU and the other holding some less, ah, convenient passport, say senegalese or colombian. this sort of weddings i’d say are as likely as any to end in divorce because in all the countries i mentioned the law essentially allows the foreign spouse to keep their residency after the divorce… for now at least.
Carms
That stat was actually about the marriage and divorce rates. When it was cited, the divorce rate was 50% of the marriage rate. there were half as many divorces happening as marriages, At That Time. obviously, the divorcees had been married Some amount of the time in the past, and the fates of the marriages that built that statistic were as yet unknown.
Because a given couple’s marriage and divorce are separated by an often substantial amount of time, any stat about how many marriages end in divorce is necessarily based on old data.
Now, x percent of marriages signed in 2020 had already ended in divorce by 2023, that’s a stat that might be current.
BBCC
Also, divorce rates went up drastically with the advent of no-fault divorce because it was now more accessible and legal to leave marriages you were unhappy with, as opposed to having to prove abuse or unfaithfulness or whatever other handful of allowed circumstances there were in whatever state you were in.