I’ve always pictured him with H’ Jon Benjamin’s Archer voice, so that might actually be pretty effective.
JustCheetoDust
You could just say H. Jon Benjamin’s voice since it’s pretty much the same whether you’re talking about Archer, McGuirk, Bob Belcher, Byron Orpheus’ master…
Doctor_Who
I don’t know what it is, but somehow I have no problem buying Bob as a sad sack and Sterling as the ultimate stud, even though they have the exact same voice.
The joke “crossover” in Archer season 4 was kind of confusing for that reason.
Whereas Coach McGuirk is a sad sack who thinks he’s a stud.
JustCheetoDust
I will admit that I did not have a good reason to suspend my disbelief during that episode.
Palamdrone
The girls at IU seem kinda easy. I mean, aside from the lesbian editor there hasn’t been a single character who’s had trouble hooking up whenever they wanted to.
Luzahn
They’re college kids, being perpetually horny is kinda their thing. =p
CrimsonStorm
Can we not label women who enjoy sex as ‘easy’, please?
DarkVeghetta
I’ve interpreted that as also including the men. Also, it’s descriptive for anyone who readily jumps on occasions to have sex – the negative connotations are only present for those who have a problem with sed behavior.
CrimsonStorm
Mmm, no, I don’t buy it.
One, Palamdrone specifically said “The *girls* at IU seem kinda easy”, singling out the women as the ones being out of the norm.
Secondly, while it’s certainly possible for words to transcend their connotations, I don’t believe that’s happening in this case. “Easy” has been used for a while as a slightly less offensive version of “loose” or “slutty”–terms used to judge women for promiscuous behavior, based on a weird cultural assumption that men should be sexual aggressors and women should be withholding sex. Those negative connotations are based in the history and usage of culture and language.
To be clear, I don’t think Palamdrone intended badly but I think it’s worth pointing out when language perpetuates harmful cultural stereotypes. Instead they could have said “The students at IU all seem perpetually horny”, which is nonjudgmental and gets the same point across.
me
Um…if you’re easily offended, you might want to avoid webcomics…and…the internet,
Li
If you’re easily offended by other people talking about stuff like sexism, you might want to avoid, like, real life.
CrimsonStorm
When people call out discrimination, consider that they might be more than just ‘easily offended’. For my part, I believe that it’s valuable to create cultures where this is commonplace; no-one is perfect, and by being able to openly communicate about issues helps to reduce them. 🙂
Also, part of the decision to call out sexism (or discrimination in general) is contextual and based on audience. I wouldn’t bother going on, say, /b/, and calling out discrimination, because I don’t believe it would make any difference. However, I think the sort of people who read DoA are more likely to be the sort of people who will listen to constructive criticism and want to improve themselves.
Ethan hasn’t had a single date with a guy, Joe strikes out with everyone on panel outside of Roz and Penny, Billie was turned down by both Joe and Danny, Becky was turned down by Joyce, Marcie is currently in a vague “I’m not sure she’s interested in me or girls” space with Malaya, so there’s definitely a fair set of strike outs.
But, I mean, beyond that, they’re college kids. A strong majority of college kids fuck. Hell, a strong majority of people in general fuck. It’s sort of a human thing.
DarkVeghetta
To be fair, Ethan never tried from what we’ve seen and perhaps if he pursued Danny it would lead to sexy times, though between those two there’s more of a romance going on.
As for Joe… it’s more that it’s comical to see him fail and not so much comical to see him succeed – it’s been stated often (mostly by Joe himself) that he’s quite popular, sexually.
Is Marcie in a vague ‘not sure’ space with Malaya or has it moved on by now? It’s been a while since we’ve seen anything on that front (then again, comic-time is slower then a turtle, so it’s understandable).
Very true. Ethan hasn’t tried to pursue anyone from what we can see in comic. And I believe Joe when he says he has lots of success (he is very handsome and Roz has said in the porn comics that he has crazy good stamina if you can shut him up).
There has been no update in comic on whether or not it has progressed from there.
It was more just me pointing out that people strike out in comic, so it’s not like this is quite the Menagea3 orgy future ending or anything like that, more a fairly normal depiction of early college sexual experimentation and exploration.
Reltzik
Given that Malaya was not gay in Walkyverse, it won’t go well for Marcie.
… though she was willing to experiment a bit.
Shival
Ethan not pursuing anyone seems to have more to do with his attempts to have more to his personality than just “the gay guy”, which also lead to his brief return to presenting himself as straight. It also hasn’t been very effective as he’s been shown lusting after pretty much every guy that comes into his field of view. The boy needs to get laid!
Ana Chronistic
or he needs different toys
LiamKav
@Reltzik DW said that his characters have the same sexual orientation in all universes. Saying that, what part of Malaya having a thing for Leslie and Ultra Car makes her “not gay in the Ealkyverse”?
Kim
Sarah has had trouble, if I remember right
My poor favorite 🙁
Rutee
She does, when she’s trying to act according to a set of rules I consider arcane that Merika has constructed as the way to date people.
I wonder if she’d do better just treating Jacob as a friend first, and growing close more organically. Would it be doomed to failure because we say not to do that? Would she still cock that up because she wants to bang him too badly /now/? Dunno. But I wonder.
Slartibeast Button, BIA
I’d attribute it more to the fact that pathetic losers are underrepresented in the cast. Just Daisy and Howard that I’ve noticed.
(Note this is not one of those stupid “The DoA cast should be representative of the real world IU student body.” complaints. Willis should write the characters his Muse tells him to, and not write characters she doesn’t. That’s an vital element of making art that doesn’t suck.)
thejeff
I’m not sure how you’re defining “pathetic losers” except perhaps as people who want sex and aren’t getting it.
Howard’s a kid. Other than her perpetual single horniness, I’m not sure why Daisy’s pathetic or a loser.
Some of the other character might well be considered so by many, it’s just that they’ve found partners – Amber, the anti-social shut in, Walky the man-child, Danny the doormat.
They’re not really, of course, but they’re exactly the type you’d expect not to get laid often. Certainly not “players”.
Slartibeast Button, BIA
defining “pathetic losers” except perhaps as people who want sex and aren’t getting it.
Exactly, which I thought would be obvious from context.
trlkly
I would suggest putting that term in quotes, then. The idea that people like that are actually losers has led to a lot of problems, and thus might bug people.
It created “Nice Guys.” And the groups that took that to mean that everyone must be a horrible jerk.
In the same way that women are taught that their value comes from their beauty, guys are often taught that their value comes from procuring sexual partners.
That’s not saying it’s wrong to try to have sex, as long as you are doing so with willing partners. But it has nothing to do with your manhood or “loser” status.
Slartibeast Button, BIA
I don’t agree, but I’m not going argue it further here.
Well, there was the time Daisy, who appears to be an professor-type adult or grad student asked Billie to demonstrate her claim about sexual harassment by her RA, and then leaned in and kissed Billie when she complied -and then said that both that and what Ruth did (after Billie spelled out that Ruth knocked her against the wall first) was accidental, could happen to anyone, etc. Wouldn’t call that “pathetic loser” behavior, but it definitely comes across as sketchy, at best to me.
Dibullba
Personally always viewed Mikes voice to be kind of like Dante Bosco’s Zuko, but with a slightly deeper voice.
Ana Chronistic
I hear Mike as my asshole BIL (perhaps with good reason) but idk how to describe that to y’all
Dibullba
Actually got a better example of the voice I was thinking of. Take Scott Menville’s Red X from Teen Titans! but without the robotic voice adjustment and slightly raspier.
Frankly, I really don’t understand Mike here. His go-to move is just be an asshole with no reason or context. Seems kinda two dimensional characterization to me, I was hoping for some development.
Someone’s in a relationship, better break it up because the concept offends me?
ditrysia
This universe’s Mike seems to do seemingly asshole-ish things in order to help other characters grow, albeit in a painful and nasty ways. He keeps making others learn new lessons, and has lulz in the process. But he has a brand of tough love for which he prefers to be branded as just an asshole, even if he’s more than that.
In this case sleeping with Amber’s boyfriend would have broken her up. Amber is not in a good mental state, so breaking her up would be best, as she could be potentially toxic and/or dangerous for any partner until she gets her shit at least a little bit together.
Spencer
That’s… still hella uncool. Like, everything you just said.
This idea that Mike is trying to Miyagi people into bettering themselves, like telling Ethan that he should pretend to be straight, or telling Amber that she’s doomed to become her father, or calling Dorothy and Sal giant sluts because they have sex with men, well it’s fucking gross.
Spencer
And, come on; “Amber is mentally ill, so she deserves to have her boyfriend cheat on her, and she totally deserves it because she might fuck things up because of a litany of untreated mental health problems” is goddamn gross.
Sergei Andropov
Nobody ever said he was a good guy. Quite the opposite; he’s a massive asshole. But there is some goodness in his heart.
Maybe. He still feels like a trying-too-hard edgelord to me, but wevs.
Spencer
I kinda think telling an abuse victim that they’re doomed to become their abuser is grounds for being a total scum sucking shitfucker.
Gigafreak
When the alternative is “he watches her gradually become her abuser and then he does nothing about it,” we have a pretty messed up situation! The thing we need to hear is so rarely the thing we want to hear.
Spencer
“You are doomed to become your father because you want a partner you feel safe with” is not something an abuse victim needs to hear, especially one who’s already convinced that she’s one step away from hurting everyone around her.
I can’t believe so many fucking people defend this bullshit. The fuck is wrong with you.
LWS
“…he’s a massive asshole. But there is some goodness in his heart.”
Spencer- Oh yeah, on that point, full agree. Hell, for all people love old universe Mike, this universe’s Mike actually has the worst record for actually improving people’s situations with his “advice”. Amber and Ethan have been particularly good examples of this.
His “advice” helped drive Ethan back in the closet, encouraged Amber to not seek people out about mental health stuff, and dive even more into feeding one of her alters in a toxic way in response to the fear.
If he’s an asshole for the good of other people like a Sarah, he is frankly, awful at this.
Dana
He seems to me to pass up opportunities to terrorize Joyce, and that’s about the extent of some heart of gold that people want to carry over from the Walkyverse. In other words he’s just an asshole. I get the impression Willis likes having him around but has little to no interest in having him be three dimensional for the time being, or even at all. Many readers want everyone with major screen time to be well rounded, but the current situation is fine by me.
ditrysia
I was not defending him. At least not in an absolute way. None of this makes him good. Even if he has good intentions, even if he is attempting to fix people’s lives, he still goes about it in an awful, manipulative, hurtful way.
He comes from a really *nice* family so he acts out and he attempts to be the exact opposite, the jerkiest of jerks, but even in that it seems that he can’t avoid being well-intentioned deep, deep down, in a roundabout fucked-up way. He’s not good, he’s just not 100% absolute evil all the time always.
My point was just that he’s not one-dimensional at all. Which of course he isn’t, or we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Spencer
Where has it even been remotely hinted that he has good intentions.
Because that’s just something people decided was true because reasons.
ditrysia
Because that’s what can be figured out by studying what he’s doing. It’s his modus operandi.
So he’s always one step ahead of the rest, he’s the first to pick up when someone is fucking up. So instead of trying to stop them, he satirizes them and ridicules them, then persuades them to do the exact opposite than they should be doing so that they can see how moronic they are being.
But it’s those situations that set him off, he’s never just an asshole without prompt. The things he does always end up with someone learning a lesson. It’s not random.
Greenygal
Leaving aside whether Mike actually has any good intentions, the things he does do not always end with someone learning a lesson (not even the one you think they’d pick up, “Mike is not someone I want to hang out with”). Ethan didn’t come out of the closet any faster because Mike told him to stay in it (or because he got Joyce to say she thought homosexuality was a sin, for that matter). Implying that Amber was an abuser because she was dating a guy like Danny did not accomplish anything except making her feel bad. Sal shrugged off his random slut-shaming after a few strips, and Dorothy seems to have just ignored his attempt to do it to her. I don’t even think beating up Joe, telling Walky that Billie was mauled by a bear, drawing dicks on Joyce’s door, or answering Joyce’s phone with “All Hail Satan” were trying to get anyone to do anything; he was just enjoying himself.
…he got Dorothy to admit she was dating Walky! Okay, yes, his assholery accomplished something useful. Once.
So if he is secretly trying to fix people, he’s doing a terrible job.
Spencer
Except for that part where he stood outside Joyce’s bedroom and constantly drew dicks on her whiteboard.
Spencer
(The above post and this were meant to be in response to Dana)
And, yeah, I think people just want to assign all these deep narrative reasons to Mike. It’s just hella messed up in this circumstance because it prescribes a “deep” reason to Mike constantly being a total creep.
Like his character bio entirely consists of: “Mike is an asshole. He rooms with Walky.”
John Brewer
Wow, Mike has his own theodicy. I love it.
Elisto
I see him similarly. My interpretation is that he does see all the awful stuff going on around him, sometimes even when others don’t, and I think he does want to see things get better for others, but for whatever reason, he thinks being awful in return is some sort of “tough love” that will show people how they’re messing things up (because it’s everyone else’s fault for not seeing what he sees). Basically, it’s an outlook of “the world is terrible and everyone around me is clueless, so I need to be terrible too until everyone else gets their act together.” Obviously, this is not a healthy way to interact with the world, for himself or anyone else.
I say this based on someone I know, so I may be projecting a bit. But it does mean I’m sympathetic towards Mike and hope someone like him can grow because I don’t think he’s truly heartless, instead harmfully unaware of what people actually need.
Elisto
Or, alternatively, angry at the world for being terrible and deliberately, knowingly being a jerk, again, ans some sort of punishment/tough love.
He dresses well, he’s at an age where people haven’t yet figured out that Bad Boys aren’t actually a good idea, he can play off his personality as nihilistic or rebellious as needed, and all of the alternatives for dating are also college students so it’s not like he’s got a high bar to clear.
Plus, he’s confident and he asks, which is sometimes all you need.
I thought it was tramatic rape therapy. I don’t have the link, but it’s from Shortpacked. It’s basically that he rapes people while doing something involved with what they want to avoid. He explained it as raping someone while singing the ninja turtles theme would make you not want to watch ninja turtles anymore, because it would remind them of the tragic rape.
It could be that Mike is secretly the most attractive character in the entire ‘verse, but his love of hate is so strong that it gives off a “resting bongoface” vibe.
Actually, I think Mike never saw a social more he didn’t want to nuke from orbit.
“Sleeping with my friends’ significant others is frowned upon? NUKE FROM ORBIT!”
“Spelling out a marriage proposal with dead cats is frowned upon? NUKE FROM ORBIT!”
“Punching people in the face while they’re on a date is frowned upon? NUKE FROM ORBIT!”
J
“… It’s the only way to be sure.”
Arian
The singular of ‘mores’ is ‘mos’. It’s Latin, and pronounced roughly ‘morayz’, not ‘morz’.
Reltzik
Mos?
Wow, that would be a hard thing to guess.
…. wait, with an ‘h’? How the hell do you pronounce that? Why would anyone put an ‘h’ in there?
trlkly
I agree that that’s the Latin singular, but I don’t see it used in English. I’ve seen way too many people refer to a singular “more,” and have never seen anyone say “mos.”
340 thoughts on “Unbeliever”
Ana Chronistic
Mike just loves fucking with people tho
in lots of ways
Jay Eff
Like when there are nickels involved, for instance…
Wheelpath
FEMURS, Oh oops, wrong meme
Volkai
Fermurs made of nickels. Or nickel.
Or nickels made of femur?
CoriMarie21
Especially moms. Especially for a nickel.
Edhead
I’m just trying to figure out how Mike would sleep with anyone he wants.
Does he just go up to them and say “You. Pants. Off. Now.”
Doctor_Who
I’ve always pictured him with H’ Jon Benjamin’s Archer voice, so that might actually be pretty effective.
JustCheetoDust
You could just say H. Jon Benjamin’s voice since it’s pretty much the same whether you’re talking about Archer, McGuirk, Bob Belcher, Byron Orpheus’ master…
Doctor_Who
I don’t know what it is, but somehow I have no problem buying Bob as a sad sack and Sterling as the ultimate stud, even though they have the exact same voice.
The joke “crossover” in Archer season 4 was kind of confusing for that reason.
Historyman68
Whereas Coach McGuirk is a sad sack who thinks he’s a stud.
JustCheetoDust
I will admit that I did not have a good reason to suspend my disbelief during that episode.
Palamdrone
The girls at IU seem kinda easy. I mean, aside from the lesbian editor there hasn’t been a single character who’s had trouble hooking up whenever they wanted to.
Luzahn
They’re college kids, being perpetually horny is kinda their thing. =p
CrimsonStorm
Can we not label women who enjoy sex as ‘easy’, please?
DarkVeghetta
I’ve interpreted that as also including the men. Also, it’s descriptive for anyone who readily jumps on occasions to have sex – the negative connotations are only present for those who have a problem with sed behavior.
CrimsonStorm
Mmm, no, I don’t buy it.
One, Palamdrone specifically said “The *girls* at IU seem kinda easy”, singling out the women as the ones being out of the norm.
Secondly, while it’s certainly possible for words to transcend their connotations, I don’t believe that’s happening in this case. “Easy” has been used for a while as a slightly less offensive version of “loose” or “slutty”–terms used to judge women for promiscuous behavior, based on a weird cultural assumption that men should be sexual aggressors and women should be withholding sex. Those negative connotations are based in the history and usage of culture and language.
To be clear, I don’t think Palamdrone intended badly but I think it’s worth pointing out when language perpetuates harmful cultural stereotypes. Instead they could have said “The students at IU all seem perpetually horny”, which is nonjudgmental and gets the same point across.
me
Um…if you’re easily offended, you might want to avoid webcomics…and…the internet,
Li
If you’re easily offended by other people talking about stuff like sexism, you might want to avoid, like, real life.
CrimsonStorm
When people call out discrimination, consider that they might be more than just ‘easily offended’. For my part, I believe that it’s valuable to create cultures where this is commonplace; no-one is perfect, and by being able to openly communicate about issues helps to reduce them. 🙂
Also, part of the decision to call out sexism (or discrimination in general) is contextual and based on audience. I wouldn’t bother going on, say, /b/, and calling out discrimination, because I don’t believe it would make any difference. However, I think the sort of people who read DoA are more likely to be the sort of people who will listen to constructive criticism and want to improve themselves.
Cerberus
Ethan hasn’t had a single date with a guy, Joe strikes out with everyone on panel outside of Roz and Penny, Billie was turned down by both Joe and Danny, Becky was turned down by Joyce, Marcie is currently in a vague “I’m not sure she’s interested in me or girls” space with Malaya, so there’s definitely a fair set of strike outs.
But, I mean, beyond that, they’re college kids. A strong majority of college kids fuck. Hell, a strong majority of people in general fuck. It’s sort of a human thing.
DarkVeghetta
To be fair, Ethan never tried from what we’ve seen and perhaps if he pursued Danny it would lead to sexy times, though between those two there’s more of a romance going on.
As for Joe… it’s more that it’s comical to see him fail and not so much comical to see him succeed – it’s been stated often (mostly by Joe himself) that he’s quite popular, sexually.
Is Marcie in a vague ‘not sure’ space with Malaya or has it moved on by now? It’s been a while since we’ve seen anything on that front (then again, comic-time is slower then a turtle, so it’s understandable).
Cerberus
Very true. Ethan hasn’t tried to pursue anyone from what we can see in comic. And I believe Joe when he says he has lots of success (he is very handsome and Roz has said in the porn comics that he has crazy good stamina if you can shut him up).
For Marcie, last we saw was last Saturday and she was still in the vague space: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/birdflash/
There has been no update in comic on whether or not it has progressed from there.
It was more just me pointing out that people strike out in comic, so it’s not like this is quite the Menagea3 orgy future ending or anything like that, more a fairly normal depiction of early college sexual experimentation and exploration.
Reltzik
Given that Malaya was not gay in Walkyverse, it won’t go well for Marcie.
… though she was willing to experiment a bit.
Shival
Ethan not pursuing anyone seems to have more to do with his attempts to have more to his personality than just “the gay guy”, which also lead to his brief return to presenting himself as straight. It also hasn’t been very effective as he’s been shown lusting after pretty much every guy that comes into his field of view. The boy needs to get laid!
Ana Chronistic
or he needs different toys
LiamKav
@Reltzik DW said that his characters have the same sexual orientation in all universes. Saying that, what part of Malaya having a thing for Leslie and Ultra Car makes her “not gay in the Ealkyverse”?
Kim
Sarah has had trouble, if I remember right
My poor favorite 🙁
Rutee
She does, when she’s trying to act according to a set of rules I consider arcane that Merika has constructed as the way to date people.
I wonder if she’d do better just treating Jacob as a friend first, and growing close more organically. Would it be doomed to failure because we say not to do that? Would she still cock that up because she wants to bang him too badly /now/? Dunno. But I wonder.
Slartibeast Button, BIA
I’d attribute it more to the fact that pathetic losers are underrepresented in the cast. Just Daisy and Howard that I’ve noticed.
(Note this is not one of those stupid “The DoA cast should be representative of the real world IU student body.” complaints. Willis should write the characters his Muse tells him to, and not write characters she doesn’t. That’s an vital element of making art that doesn’t suck.)
thejeff
I’m not sure how you’re defining “pathetic losers” except perhaps as people who want sex and aren’t getting it.
Howard’s a kid. Other than her perpetual single horniness, I’m not sure why Daisy’s pathetic or a loser.
Some of the other character might well be considered so by many, it’s just that they’ve found partners – Amber, the anti-social shut in, Walky the man-child, Danny the doormat.
They’re not really, of course, but they’re exactly the type you’d expect not to get laid often. Certainly not “players”.
Slartibeast Button, BIA
defining “pathetic losers” except perhaps as people who want sex and aren’t getting it.
Exactly, which I thought would be obvious from context.
trlkly
I would suggest putting that term in quotes, then. The idea that people like that are actually losers has led to a lot of problems, and thus might bug people.
It created “Nice Guys.” And the groups that took that to mean that everyone must be a horrible jerk.
In the same way that women are taught that their value comes from their beauty, guys are often taught that their value comes from procuring sexual partners.
That’s not saying it’s wrong to try to have sex, as long as you are doing so with willing partners. But it has nothing to do with your manhood or “loser” status.
Slartibeast Button, BIA
I don’t agree, but I’m not going argue it further here.
Silamy
Well, there was the time Daisy, who appears to be an professor-type adult or grad student asked Billie to demonstrate her claim about sexual harassment by her RA, and then leaned in and kissed Billie when she complied -and then said that both that and what Ruth did (after Billie spelled out that Ruth knocked her against the wall first) was accidental, could happen to anyone, etc. Wouldn’t call that “pathetic loser” behavior, but it definitely comes across as sketchy, at best to me.
Dibullba
Personally always viewed Mikes voice to be kind of like Dante Bosco’s Zuko, but with a slightly deeper voice.
Ana Chronistic
I hear Mike as my asshole BIL (perhaps with good reason) but idk how to describe that to y’all
Dibullba
Actually got a better example of the voice I was thinking of. Take Scott Menville’s Red X from Teen Titans! but without the robotic voice adjustment and slightly raspier.
SundaesChild
Mike: like Chief Cosgrove, but with pants.
Doctor_Who
Except instead of “Cut it out” it’s “Pull it out”
Paul
Frankly, I really don’t understand Mike here. His go-to move is just be an asshole with no reason or context. Seems kinda two dimensional characterization to me, I was hoping for some development.
Someone’s in a relationship, better break it up because the concept offends me?
ditrysia
This universe’s Mike seems to do seemingly asshole-ish things in order to help other characters grow, albeit in a painful and nasty ways. He keeps making others learn new lessons, and has lulz in the process. But he has a brand of tough love for which he prefers to be branded as just an asshole, even if he’s more than that.
In this case sleeping with Amber’s boyfriend would have broken her up. Amber is not in a good mental state, so breaking her up would be best, as she could be potentially toxic and/or dangerous for any partner until she gets her shit at least a little bit together.
Spencer
That’s… still hella uncool. Like, everything you just said.
This idea that Mike is trying to Miyagi people into bettering themselves, like telling Ethan that he should pretend to be straight, or telling Amber that she’s doomed to become her father, or calling Dorothy and Sal giant sluts because they have sex with men, well it’s fucking gross.
Spencer
And, come on; “Amber is mentally ill, so she deserves to have her boyfriend cheat on her, and she totally deserves it because she might fuck things up because of a litany of untreated mental health problems” is goddamn gross.
Sergei Andropov
Nobody ever said he was a good guy. Quite the opposite; he’s a massive asshole. But there is some goodness in his heart.
Cerberus
Maybe. He still feels like a trying-too-hard edgelord to me, but wevs.
Spencer
I kinda think telling an abuse victim that they’re doomed to become their abuser is grounds for being a total scum sucking shitfucker.
Gigafreak
When the alternative is “he watches her gradually become her abuser and then he does nothing about it,” we have a pretty messed up situation! The thing we need to hear is so rarely the thing we want to hear.
Spencer
“You are doomed to become your father because you want a partner you feel safe with” is not something an abuse victim needs to hear, especially one who’s already convinced that she’s one step away from hurting everyone around her.
I can’t believe so many fucking people defend this bullshit. The fuck is wrong with you.
LWS
“…he’s a massive asshole. But there is some goodness in his heart.”
So Mike is really The Grinch?
Cerberus
Spencer- Oh yeah, on that point, full agree. Hell, for all people love old universe Mike, this universe’s Mike actually has the worst record for actually improving people’s situations with his “advice”. Amber and Ethan have been particularly good examples of this.
His “advice” helped drive Ethan back in the closet, encouraged Amber to not seek people out about mental health stuff, and dive even more into feeding one of her alters in a toxic way in response to the fear.
If he’s an asshole for the good of other people like a Sarah, he is frankly, awful at this.
Dana
He seems to me to pass up opportunities to terrorize Joyce, and that’s about the extent of some heart of gold that people want to carry over from the Walkyverse. In other words he’s just an asshole. I get the impression Willis likes having him around but has little to no interest in having him be three dimensional for the time being, or even at all. Many readers want everyone with major screen time to be well rounded, but the current situation is fine by me.
ditrysia
I was not defending him. At least not in an absolute way. None of this makes him good. Even if he has good intentions, even if he is attempting to fix people’s lives, he still goes about it in an awful, manipulative, hurtful way.
He comes from a really *nice* family so he acts out and he attempts to be the exact opposite, the jerkiest of jerks, but even in that it seems that he can’t avoid being well-intentioned deep, deep down, in a roundabout fucked-up way. He’s not good, he’s just not 100% absolute evil all the time always.
My point was just that he’s not one-dimensional at all. Which of course he isn’t, or we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Spencer
Where has it even been remotely hinted that he has good intentions.
Because that’s just something people decided was true because reasons.
ditrysia
Because that’s what can be figured out by studying what he’s doing. It’s his modus operandi.
So he’s always one step ahead of the rest, he’s the first to pick up when someone is fucking up. So instead of trying to stop them, he satirizes them and ridicules them, then persuades them to do the exact opposite than they should be doing so that they can see how moronic they are being.
But it’s those situations that set him off, he’s never just an asshole without prompt. The things he does always end up with someone learning a lesson. It’s not random.
Greenygal
Leaving aside whether Mike actually has any good intentions, the things he does do not always end with someone learning a lesson (not even the one you think they’d pick up, “Mike is not someone I want to hang out with”). Ethan didn’t come out of the closet any faster because Mike told him to stay in it (or because he got Joyce to say she thought homosexuality was a sin, for that matter). Implying that Amber was an abuser because she was dating a guy like Danny did not accomplish anything except making her feel bad. Sal shrugged off his random slut-shaming after a few strips, and Dorothy seems to have just ignored his attempt to do it to her. I don’t even think beating up Joe, telling Walky that Billie was mauled by a bear, drawing dicks on Joyce’s door, or answering Joyce’s phone with “All Hail Satan” were trying to get anyone to do anything; he was just enjoying himself.
…he got Dorothy to admit she was dating Walky! Okay, yes, his assholery accomplished something useful. Once.
So if he is secretly trying to fix people, he’s doing a terrible job.
Spencer
Except for that part where he stood outside Joyce’s bedroom and constantly drew dicks on her whiteboard.
Spencer
(The above post and this were meant to be in response to Dana)
And, yeah, I think people just want to assign all these deep narrative reasons to Mike. It’s just hella messed up in this circumstance because it prescribes a “deep” reason to Mike constantly being a total creep.
Like his character bio entirely consists of: “Mike is an asshole. He rooms with Walky.”
John Brewer
Wow, Mike has his own theodicy. I love it.
Elisto
I see him similarly. My interpretation is that he does see all the awful stuff going on around him, sometimes even when others don’t, and I think he does want to see things get better for others, but for whatever reason, he thinks being awful in return is some sort of “tough love” that will show people how they’re messing things up (because it’s everyone else’s fault for not seeing what he sees). Basically, it’s an outlook of “the world is terrible and everyone around me is clueless, so I need to be terrible too until everyone else gets their act together.” Obviously, this is not a healthy way to interact with the world, for himself or anyone else.
I say this based on someone I know, so I may be projecting a bit. But it does mean I’m sympathetic towards Mike and hope someone like him can grow because I don’t think he’s truly heartless, instead harmfully unaware of what people actually need.
Elisto
Or, alternatively, angry at the world for being terrible and deliberately, knowingly being a jerk, again, ans some sort of punishment/tough love.
Viktoria
He dresses well, he’s at an age where people haven’t yet figured out that Bad Boys aren’t actually a good idea, he can play off his personality as nihilistic or rebellious as needed, and all of the alternatives for dating are also college students so it’s not like he’s got a high bar to clear.
Plus, he’s confident and he asks, which is sometimes all you need.
Nemirthel
It’s simple. He pays them a nickel.
Silvester Crow
I thought it was tramatic rape therapy. I don’t have the link, but it’s from Shortpacked. It’s basically that he rapes people while doing something involved with what they want to avoid. He explained it as raping someone while singing the ninja turtles theme would make you not want to watch ninja turtles anymore, because it would remind them of the tragic rape.
Cerberus
Yeah… that was certainly a comic that existed.
I dunno, I’m kinda glad those jokes happen less these days.
Uncertainty Moth
It’d work on me.
J
It could be that Mike is secretly the most attractive character in the entire ‘verse, but his love of hate is so strong that it gives off a “resting bongoface” vibe.
OsterGuard
I think Mike just wants to fuck people. Amber’s reaction would just be a bonus.
Reltzik
Actually, I think Mike never saw a social more he didn’t want to nuke from orbit.
“Sleeping with my friends’ significant others is frowned upon? NUKE FROM ORBIT!”
“Spelling out a marriage proposal with dead cats is frowned upon? NUKE FROM ORBIT!”
“Punching people in the face while they’re on a date is frowned upon? NUKE FROM ORBIT!”
J
“… It’s the only way to be sure.”
Arian
The singular of ‘mores’ is ‘mos’. It’s Latin, and pronounced roughly ‘morayz’, not ‘morz’.
Reltzik
Mos?
Wow, that would be a hard thing to guess.
…. wait, with an ‘h’? How the hell do you pronounce that? Why would anyone put an ‘h’ in there?
trlkly
I agree that that’s the Latin singular, but I don’t see it used in English. I’ve seen way too many people refer to a singular “more,” and have never seen anyone say “mos.”
motorfirebox
I mean, it’s better than fucking without people.
Mr. Random
Mike, king of making you fucking angry.
Reltzik
The phrase is “hate-fucking”.
AnvilPro
No matter the universe, Mike is always best character.
Fridge_Logik