334

Unseparated
Posted on December 10, 2022 by David M Willis

334 thoughts on “Unseparated”

  1. darkoneko

    Dotty’s back to smiling. Sorta

  2. The Wellerman

    Poor Joyce. For her entire life she had her autonomy denied by fundies and their prejudices towards women. She worked so hard to free herself, only to discover something else people can use to deny her autonomy. ???

    I think Joyce more than anything needs a place where she is not unfairly punished for her neurodivergence, her atheism nor her gender.

    She should play games. Or join a Discord server where she can befriend other cartoonists.

    1. DarkoNeko

      ….thinking about that, does DoA have a Discord ?

      1. Yumi

        Not, like, an official one, and I’ve definitely gotten the vibe that the people on the one I know of aren’t thrilled about having it posted here.

      2. The Wellerman

        It does, but it’s full of REALLY toxic “fans” who do literally nothing but nit pick every single thing about Willis’s works 🙁

        1. Mark

          Gee, I wonder why they call it “Discord”.

        2. The Wellerman

          Ha ha, it’s not all bad, you just gotta be in the right places ?

        3. Librain

          I assume in honour of the Roman goddess Discordia? Known as Eris to the Greeks before them? As the goddess of strife, if seems fitting that a platform that was (from memory) primarily set up for gamers to communicate with each other during games should be named after a goddess who’s primary role was making people miserable.

      3. True Survivor

        I don’t know but this comment board is definitely pandemonium sometimes.

        1. Needfuldoer

          Only sometimes?

      4. Kyrik Michalowski

        Probably not, considering the problems of having people who hate each other. If they were stuck in the discord with each other, it would eventually lead to some kind of altercation and then it is out for the world to see.

        1. Kyrik Michalowski

          Oh, I thought you meant a discord between the characters.

        2. Yumi

          Hm. I want that.

        3. june gloom

          No, no, we have a few interpersonal conflicts here too. Willis is just good at smacking it down before it gets too bad.

      5. Blume

        I’d like to talk more with everyone tbh!

        1. The Wellerman

          me too. do you have a discord handle? 🙂

        2. Blume

          Oh! I hope this reply gets to you, I especially would like us to converse! lasagna#2516

  3. Dave Van Domelen

    The Taco Bell dragon’s eye….

    1. True Survivor

      What is that? It sounds cool.

      1. woobie

        Is it like an enchirito?

      2. ValdVin

        Its on the secret menu. It starts with a duck egg….

        1. ValdVin

          …and I’ve already said too much. You never read this.

      3. Decidedly Orthogonal

        It’s been rumored to be a Dragon’s Eye. (n.b. the arrow is pointing at the pupil, not a taco)

  4. alongcameaspider

    I still don’t like Dorothy being quick to ascribe every little Joyce thing to autism but it’s more reasonable here then it was before

    1. The Wellerman

      yeah me neither. the real question she should be asking is, why does it matter to her so much whether or not Joyce’s lettuce hang-up is an autism thing or a her thing?

      And I think Jennifer already more or less found the answer:
      https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-13/01-bring-me-to-life-drawing/sporadically/

      1. Yeet

        I’d guess she assumes it’s helpful to consider putting it in that box, because she’d find it helpful to be able to put something distressing her into a category.

        1. The Wellerman

          Booster is gonna sus Dorothy out as ND when? ?

        2. BowlerHatGuy

          Fish in a barrel.

        3. Librain

          I’m sure there’s at least one member of the main cast who is neurotypical. I mean, not Walky, or Dorothy, or Sal, or Carla, or Ruth, or Danny… maybe Joe??

        4. monkyvirus

          This interesting, I just assumed Dorothy was curious. Like her brain went “huh I wonder if this preference is related to autism” and just asked. On reflection your explanation seems more in character (though irl people do just say random stuff with no motive).

          Also I now wonder if she is curious because people have suggested she has autism. So she might be thinking “well I can’t be autistic I don’t have issues with food texture” and she wants Joyce to re-affirm that but saying her preference is due to autism.

          Either way dorothy should chill out about this. But my initial reading was that it was just a random thought that popped out.

      2. Jamie

        What Yeet said. Dorothy is using the approach that (she thinks) works for her and misapplying it to Joyce. And honestly, it may actually work for Joyce, too, since Joyce definitely *likes* having easy boxes to put things into.

        The problem right now is mostly that Joyce doesn’t see them as easy boxes. Which is good for an accurate understanding, but bad for feelings of safety and confidence. If you can’t comfortably separate the peas from the carrots if you’re not sure what peas and carrots are anymore.

      3. Needfuldoer

        I think she’s trying to help Joyce figure herself out, but this isn’t the place or time for that.

      4. Mark

        It’s a thing that people do, though, when trying to understand this thing that they don’t know much about and can’t envision. Dorothy’s questioning may not be pleasant, but it is realistic. I don’t think this will go on very long.

        And I think it’s coming from a good place: Dorothy has new information that might help her be a good friend, and she’s trying to figure out how to use that. I’ve been there and it’s really difficult.

        1. Needfuldoer

          I’ve been on Joyce’s side of this. Someone turning every little thing into some kind of teachable moment when all you want is to do something else is exhausting.

        2. thejeff

          Joyce’s side of this at the moment seems to be “Yeah? No? Sometimes? I don’t know?!”
          So I don’t think they’re really on opposing sides here at least.

          I think Dorothy’s handling it pretty well, especially asking if Joyce wants her to keep asking about it.

        3. Needfuldoer

          She shouldn’t have asked at all, especially after Joyce bristled at this approach ‘yesterday’ and the day before. If I were in Joyce’s position I’d be walking on eggshells, just waiting for the next offhanded comment to turn into another condescending teachable moment.

        4. BowlerHatGuy

          Joyce and Dorothy are BFFs. And bffs have weird and deel conversations, from vibrators to existential crisis, boyfriends and crushes to surviving a kidnapping and winessing a murder.

          They are fine.

          If joyce wants it to stop, she can say so. You might want your bff to stop, and reading this might make you feel like joyce is internally screaming, but i read it and see two friends getting to know each other.

          Few days ago, when joe asked “are we just friends?”, and Joyce didnt answer, some people projected their own experiences into tbe conversation and said joyce was cruel for stringing him along and should give him a straight answer.

          But i saw that interaction as fine. Two kids maybe leading up to a first date. Theyre good.

          What i wanna know is what happened to the cold rage dorothy fiest showed Joe a few minutes ago.

        5. Martin B

          I don’t think anyone is saying the Dorothy is making the right choice in linking everything to Joyce’s newly-diagnosed autism. I don’t think it is the right thing to do, as someone who has been on both sides of this kind of thing. But it is a realistically well-meaning wrong choice, and I think that is good enough in a story.

      5. Stifyn Baker

        Absolutely, Wellerman. The best thing one can do for any neurodivergent person is remember that the most important word there is ‘person’. Even if it IS an ‘autism-thing’, that doesn’t mean it isn’t also a ‘Joyce-thing’. Everyone has foibles; autism may make them a little more extreme but they are still a fundamental part of the person. I learned a long time ago that if I can’t cope with a neurodivergent person’s quirks, that’s because I’M being the @$$hat, not them.

      6. cain

        Agreed. In my experience, autism is helpful context for many of my hangups, but that doesn’t make them any less mine. And regardless of whether they’re “from” my neurodivergence or not, I still need respect and a way to navigate the situation.

    2. DailyBrad

      I honestly get the feeling autism is something Dorothy simply doesn’t know much about. Like, she’s obviously an intelligent and progressive person, but as someone who is autistic, her reaction here isn’t a unique one in my experience.

      Like Joyce said, though, it’s been like two days. I’m willing to cut her a bit of slack, but I am glad Joyce is saying something about it.

      1. Needfuldoer

        It’s not Joyce’s responsibility to teach her, especially when she’s still trying to figure it out herself.

        1. BowlerHatGuy

          “not Joyce’s responsibility to teach her”

          This seems like a perfectly normal conversation between bff’s where conversations get to go to weirdly deep topics, and folks tend to be a bit more open and honest. Didnt these two have a frank conversation about maaturbation/vibrators at one point? And dorothy waa blunt with joyce when she was hiding behind her new found atheism to be cruel to becky. Joyce basucally called dorothy a “hussy” by proxy through her comic strip, and dorothy informed her shes only had sex with three people. This is how friends talk.

        2. Needfuldoer

          They were having a normal conversation, then Dorothy slammed the brakes on it by going “I’ve learned a new Joyce Fact! Do you think that behavior is just you, or could it be an Autism thing?”

          Other people turning ordinary conversations around into surprise Autism discussion is just… rrgh. Do not do that. It’s forcing someone else to be introspective, because suddenly they’re under a microscope to satisfy your curiosity.

          Believe me, I’ve been in that position before. Suddenly you’re not part of a conversation anymore, you’re their test subject.

        3. thejeff

          This seems to be a you thing, not a Joyce and Dorothy thing. Joyce doesn’t seem to be taking it the way you are.

          I get that it’s useful advice in general. Many people probably feel like you do about it. That doesn’t mean that Dorothy specifically is doing what you’re talking about or that Joyce is bothered by it the way you would be.

        4. Needfuldoer

          Yeah, you’re probably right.

          I just hope this doesn’t become a pattern.

        5. The Wellerman

          I concur, Needful. Joyce may not be the best at reading social cues, but Dorothy herself is missing one that’s says what’s she’s doing is really unwelcome. ?

        6. BowlerHatGuy

          “Dorothy slammed the brakes on it by going “I’ve learned a new Joyce Fact! ”

          That wasnt slamming of the brakes. Anymore than Joyce implying Dorothy is a hussy and Dorothy saying “ive had sex with three people”. No brakes being slammed.

          When joe said “i am capable of being friends” and Dorothy spoke in a black text bubble “can you?”, now THAT was slamming some brakes.

        7. Eyebrow

          It sure was. Where did Dorothy get the Joe-hate from?

        8. BowlerHatGuy

          The source of dorothy’s seething silent rage at joe is TBD
          It popped up out of the blue couple days ago
          Then cut to a commercial break.

        9. thejeff

          Most likely going through high school with him and dating his best friend for a couple years and now seeing him apparently putting the moves on Joyce.

  5. Laura

    Somehow, this playlist seems apropos:

    “when you feel like quitting but you know you must carry on and push through(Moody Playlist)”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtFA9rLIuTs

    1. Laura

      Today was a stressful day. I’m “chain-smoking” probiotic lollipops. Helps me calm down.

      1. The Wellerman

        I didn’t know those were a thing :0

        1. Laura

          Dr. John’s.

        2. Taffy

          Oh shit, I’ve seen those at my local convenience store, but figured they were one of those things meant for kids, the kind of snack that tastes like spherical semi-plastic watery chicken broth and costs like $7.43 for a handful.

        3. Needfuldoer

          If you want cheap candy, there’s nothing quite like the blatantly artificial flavor of bank teller lollipops. (You know, the kind that never have a brand name, come in square cellophane, look like a Do Not Enter sign, and have a disintegrating stick they’re never lined up with.)

          They’re tongue-laceratingly good!

          Tasting your own blood builds character.

        4. Laura

          I loved those!

        5. Yumi

          This is tangential, but let me tell you about a Reddit comment that lives rent-free in my head (which I currently CAN’T FIND, ugh):

          The poster used to work as a bank teller. Around the holidays, they would give out mini candy canes to customers. Person comes in and withdraws $100; the bank teller gave them a $100 bill and mini candy cane. The customer then asked, “Can I get that broken up?” The poster said sure, and then took a stapler or something and used it to smash the candy cane. Customer says, “Thanks” and leaves. Then the poster’s coworker turned to them and said, “I think he meant to break up the $100…”

        6. Laura

          Made me laugh!!!

  6. Cmasta1992

    Dorothy is trying

    But also please Dorothy stop trying

    1. Chaucer59

      Yes, Dorothy is SOOOOOO trying.

      1. The Wellerman

        yup. Jennifer sussed her out pretty well here
        https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-13/01-bring-me-to-life-drawing/sporadically/

    2. Nerrin

      Dorothy is very trying.

      I relate to her more than anyone else in the cast but occasionally in a “look back at myself and wince” kind of way.

      1. ischemgeek

        I am like that with Joyce. I was also raised in a cult like environment, had an angry atheist phase and am autistic sooooo.

        (On that note I kinda wanna see Willis explore the fallout of growing up thinking the world is going to collapse into mayhem any 5 minutes from now and you’re personally destined to be a Warrior for the Cause. Because uh yeah. Lotta fundie cults have that and my upbringing’s brand of far right doomsday prepper cult also did and hoo boy it does a number.

        1. The Wellerman

          Yes, that would be very much welcome to explore.

          However, I wonder, are there important nuanced differences between a Doomsday Cult and a Death Cult?

        2. David M Willis

          Death cult- your group ends up dead at the end
          Doomsday cult – everyone else ends up dead at the end

        3. Clif

          That does seem like an important nuance.

        4. ischemgeek

          This sums it up in a much more pithy way than I could.

          Most Xtian cults are doomsday cult’s – and sometimes you can have cults that blur the lines between the two. I would argue the branch of evangelicals that spawned the left behind series splits the difference. The one I was raised in was actually a secular doomsday cult. Not all cults are religious.

        5. ischemgeek

          Willis summed it up best, but in terms of extreme case examples:

          Death cult – People’s Temple
          Doomsday cult – Branch Davidians

    3. Uly

      Dorothy is trying my patience.

      1. Clif

        And yet Joyce seems okay.

      2. Bathymetheus

        Did she like it?

  7. Kyrik Michalowski

    I love Taco Bell, as long as there are no veggies in it, or sour cream for that matter. I recently had the new double steak burrito, or whatever it is called. It was pretty damn good although the calories are insane.

  8. Yumi

    Relating to Joyce in the fourth panel. Recently– like, ten days ago– my therapist suggested I get a neuropsych eval to see if could connect to some things around me being bad at talking. I’m on board, but it’s a lot!

    1. BowlerHatGuy

      Good luck, whatever you choose

      1. Yumi

        Thanks

  9. Stephen Bierce

    Is it an Urban Legend that people in the Middle Ages used to think tomatoes were poisonous and so would refuse to eat them even if they were starving?

    1. David M Willis

      THEY WERE RIGHT

    2. King Daniel

      Considering that tomatoes are a “New World” plant (i.e. originating from the Americas) and the European medieval period ended sometime in the 1400s—the two most usual dates I’ve seen are 1453 and 1492—I’d guess there’s exaggerations involved at the very least. 😛

      1. DarkoNeko

        In France, for potatoes they used reverse psychology : they planted them in a large field, put some guards around it as if it’s something precious, and told the guards to turn a blind eye to any theft XD

        1. Taffy

          “How do we get these fuckers to eat a vegetable for once?”

          “Tell them they can’t eat the vegetables. Also implicitly threaten them by hiring guards, which has the added benefit of creating jobs.”

        2. Jamie

          Here’s the guy who did it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine-Augustin_Parmentier

        3. Taffy

          Wow, just dox the 19th-century French guy, why don’t ya.

        4. khn0

          It’s a legend, also it was already largely used by the poors, especially around eastern France.

          Nah, the thing is ancient potatoes used to contain much more solanin, but that was long long long before any white man put any thought on sailing to India or America.
          Also from what I’ve read, consumption of uncooked green (as in not ripe) tomatoes could also lead to poisoning, iirc, around 20kg if it was put rippening inside near a window, and the quantity for getting poisoned decreasing for how unripe it is. I didn’t manage to know which was the dose for very slightly ripened tomatoes (I checked this bc this year I had tomatoes way beyond the usual date).

        5. Daibhid C

          Another fun story on those lines is the Royal Navy admiral in the days of wooden ships and iron men (some versions claim Lord Nelson himself) who learned that continental navies attributed the lack of scurvy to eating saurkraut. But he knew that if he ordered the men to eat a weird foreign food, they’d try to get out of it, and maybe even mutiny. So he just put a large barrel of saurkraut on the deck, and clearly labelled it “For the use of officers only”.

      2. thakoru

        IIRC, the reason that conception got started was because A) Tomatoes were from the Americas and were therefore new and weird, B) they look similar to certain poisonous plants that grow in Europe, and, most interestingly, C) there actually was a string of people being poisoned after eating tomatoes, but it wasn’t because the tomatoes were poisonous – it was because the silverware they were using was made of lead, and the acid in the tomatoes corroded the outer layer of silver.

        1. Leorale

          Your recollection is super close — the problematic plates were pewter (or silver-plated pewter, and the the acid in tomatoes corroded that outer layer, like you said). Turns out pewter and tomatoes have a specific poisonous interaction.

          So they could’ve eaten tomatoes out of wooden bowls just fine, but people weren’t taking chances with a foreign nightshade that’d poisoned people.

          For lead, you might be thinking of Queen Elizabeth’s white powdered makeup. Or sapa in Ancient Rome, where they knew lead was toxic but that drink was ~fancy~ so they had it anyway.

    3. Uly

      No, because tomatoes did not arrive in Europe until after the medieval period.

      And once they did arrive – it’s complicated, but mostly Europeans didn’t eat tomatoes for the same reason YOU put CSA kohlrabi in the swap box – they just didn’t know how to cook it!

      1. Tan

        Making a lot of assumptions about the universality of CSA’s (had to google), kohirabi (had to google), swap boxes (seems reasonably obvious from context), and unwillingness to google recipes (this one’s somewhat more fair; people be like that).

        1. Uly

          No, I just assumed that anybody who doesn’t know things and is on the internet is capable of googling and also that nobody wants to brag about their own ignorance.

          I guess for every given value of nobody there’s always somebody.

        2. Tan

          You: “You personally react this way to a particular set of things that are specific to my region”

          Me: “That isn’t a thing elsewhere”

          You: “LOL SO IGNORANT”

          k.

        3. Yumi

          Wow, if only that was what had been said.

        4. Taffy

          I mean, ignorance is just a lack of knowledge/information. If you have to Google it, you’re factually ignorant. It’s not inherently a bad thing, everyone’s ignorant until they’re not, and nobody can know everything there is to know, especially with how insular a lot of (most?) people’s upbringings are. Not really anything big.

        5. khn0

          True.

          Had to google CSA.

          Also had to google like half the toys and show name reading shortpacked.

          Also grew up using a thesaurus reading new things.

          …

          Such things can create a wikipedia addiction people! Don’t make others more knowledgeable!

    4. Saida

      The problem was the plates they were eating off of. Some property of the tomato would allow the plate to leech harmful amounts of toxins into the food. Sorry for the unspecificity.

      1. Saida

        So, like thakoru said.

    5. Needfuldoer

      They are relatives of the nightshade…

    6. Mark

      Tomatoes, potatoes and several other now-common food ingredients are members of the nightshade family, long known to be poisonous.

      A legend that I haven’t checked out: supposedly Thomas Jefferson once ate a tomato in public to demonstrate that the fruit is not poisonous.

    7. Alan Lafond

      It was regarded with suspicion at first, because it was a member of the Nightshade family, which is a known poisonous family of plants. The leaves, stem, and fruit ARE toxic, but only when consumed in large quantities, and the toxicity of the fruit is much lower when ripe than before ripening.

  10. Sirksome

    The actual curse tangling your brain is choosing to eat at Taco Bell to begin with. That is the original sin.

    1. Yumi

      And I’m planning to sin again tomorrow.

      1. The Wellerman

        “Forgive me Vicar, for I have sinned. I’ve sinned a LOT!”

        Tasty, tasty sins… ????

        1. Yumi

          Do vicars hear confessions like that? I’m much more familiar with it being, “Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned,” assumed it would be different in other denominations, but I’m not super into religion.

        2. The Wellerman

          Vicar is more or less a synonym for Father, yes.

          A former Christian I’ve read about recounts how she always called their church leader a Vicar, on account of “Father” feeling too creepy for her without knowing why exactly.

        3. Yumi

          I know what a vicar is, and it’s a comparable role, but it’s not, like, interchangeable (for most– I don’t know the personalexperience of the person you’re referring to). They’re members of different denominations, and from what I’m seeing , the one that vicars are in don’t do confession the same way.

          So, it seems like the answer to my question is actually, “No, they do not.”

        4. The Wellerman

          Well, depends on the denomination really. The person I was talking about used to be part of the Church of England, where male Vicars are often called Fathers and take confessions. Don’t know a lot of other details though.

        5. Yumi

          Interesting. There’s really a lot of conflicting yet overlapping denominations (and further sections) out there. But yeah, I was also trying to emphasize the “like that” and “same way” parts because while that phrase is super common with “Father” in it, I had never heard it with “Vicar” instead, and I wasn’t finding searching results with that.

        6. Taffy

          It’s a little nuanced, but if you watch enough Bri’ish TV, you might start to get the idea a little better. I recommend Broadchurch, starring David Whittaker and Jodie Tennant.

        7. Greebs

          Huh. I associate Vicars with COE for sure, but I wasn’t aware they went in for confessionals. I thought that was specifically a Catholic thing…

        8. Daibhid C

          Huh, I hadn’t realised CofE do confessions either,and I just live 145 miles away from England. Now I’m wondering if the Church of Scotland do as well, and I just abandoned it before it came up.

          I get the impression they’re not as central as they are in Catholicism, though.

        9. Daibhid C

          So, I looked it up on Wikipedia. Here’s what they say:

          “In the Anglican tradition, confession and absolution is usually a component part of corporate worship, particularly at the Eucharist. The form involves an exhortation to repentance by the priest, a period of silent prayer during which believers may inwardly confess their sins, a form of general confession said together by all present and the pronouncement of general absolution by the priest, often accompanied by the sign of the cross.

          Private or auricular confession is also practiced by Anglicans and is especially common among Anglo-Catholics. The venue for confessions is either in the traditional confessional, which is the common practice among Anglo-Catholics, or in a private meeting with the priest.”

          If I understand this correctly, it’s something like:

          Catholic: You must confess your sins to the priest regularly to be forgiven. Failure to do this is, itself, a sin.

          CofE: Only God can forgive you, so your confession is between you and Him. But if you want to chat to a vicar about it, you can certainly do that too.

        10. drs

          “Father, I have sinned.”

          “Daddy, I’ve been naughty.”

        11. Taffy

          Papar, I done a bad.

        12. Clif

          Père, I’m French.

    2. Beau Kirin Maysey

      Chalupa Sins

    3. Taffy

      And we’ll sin again and again, cuz nacho fries will always be back then.

    4. Needfuldoer

      Once in a blue moon, I’ll get some plain old regular hard shell tacos with lettuce, tomato, and cheese from Taco Bell. Taco filling isn’t that hard to make, but it’s not exactly the same. Sometimes you just want cheap, low effort fast food.

      Same with hamburgers. Grilling burgers is easy, but sometimes all you want is a Whopper.

    5. Segnosaur

      Some day all restaurants will be taco bell, after they win the fast food wars

      So says the documentary “demolition man”.

    6. Amós Batista

      Is Taco Bell that so bad?

      1. Sirksome

        I don’t care for it. Taco Bell, more like Taco Hell. It’s not the worst but I’d choose any other fast food over it, or just make tacos at home.

      2. Wizard

        It seems to be a bit of a love it or hate it thing. Personally, I eat there regularly. It’s pretty amazing how many ways they can find to remix a few basic ingredients.

      3. BowlerHatGuy

        https://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2011/01/25/taco-bell-meat-only-36-percent-beef

  11. RassilonTDavros

    …I suddenly felt a wave of memories come over me. Memories of ordering tacos without lettuce when I was a little kid. Up until a minute ago, I had somehow completely forgotten that I ever did that.

    I still order all sorts of things at Taco Bell (and also not at Taco Bell) without tomatoes.

    1. ischemgeek

      Ok so peak “I am an autistic person with texture issues”: I can have raw tomato at home because I remove the slimy stuff from the inside, but at restaurants I always order no tomato because tomato seed pod slime makes me gag.

    2. Wizard

      I can handle the occasinoal salad, but I can’t stand lettuce on tacos, burgers, etc. Hot lettuce just tastes disgusting to me. Not a fan of tomatoes, either. I eat lots of things made with tomatoes, but tomato slices hold no appeal.

  12. Yotomoe

    God I feel this feel. I feel this feel deeply. There are so many of my traits and habits that I am only nor decontextualizing as “oh, maybe I’m neurodivergent” Like what are my traits and what are just aspects of my brain thing?
    “Oh, I’ve basically gone several hours not doing the thing I set out to do. Is it because I’m a lazy asshole or is it because I have some issue with my attention span. Is it both?” Who is yoto, y’know? I feel tempted to blame a lot of my habits on it despite being undiagnosed and I worry I’m to comfortable with the idea because it would at least…explain why I am the way I am.

    1. RassilonTDavros

      “I feel this feel deeply”

      This feels like a picnic.

      (all memes aside, I do the same thing.)

      1. chuckroast

        Chew.

        1. Yotomoe

          What a beautiful Duwang.

    2. Blume

      Me right now… Friend is confused on how I miss obvious things, and I’m just now realizing it might be an ADHD thing. It’s making me feel a bit dumb. I don’t know which is just me or which is just ADHD, if I’m the forgetful one or if it’s ADHD making me forgetful. Either way I have a tendency to exasperate people. Either way, I feel you. I like knowing, but I also don’t at the same time?

      1. Blume

        I said either way twice, like a silly goose

    3. The Wellerman

      Well, for lots of people a diagnosis is really self-assuring and relieving. Obligatory comic to illustrate: https://twitter.com/Moosekleenex/status/1456010473011298311

      1. drs

        Or as webcomic EGS used a couple times: “There’s a _name_ for that?!” Tedd getting told ‘genderfluid’ was a thing.

    4. Keulen

      As someone who was diagnosed autistic early this year at the age of 33, I also feel this. There’s so many things I do or used to do when I was younger that I’m now suspecting were at least partly due to my autism, and not just me being weird.

    5. Human Bean

      I relate to this, but it also makes me angry. Allistic people probably never think stuff like “do I really like eye contact, or ist it the allism”? People who don’t have ADHD probably never ask “is the way I focus on things really me, or is it a sign of being a person without ADHD?”
      Neurotypical never agonize about whether one of their traits is “really them” or if it’s a trait of their neurotype. They don’t have to.
      And why do we do this? Why do we act as if we need to separate ourselves into “the real me” and “the neurodivergence”? Because we have been shamed for who we are, again and again and again. Because we are treated as if we were neurotypical people with some annoying extras that should be removed, or lacking things that need to be grifted onto us. We’re not.

      @Yotomoe I fear this might come across as me ranting at you specifically. That is really not my intention, and I don’t mean to tell anyone how they’re supposed to think or feel about themself. Reading your post was just a catalyst that allowed me to put words to things that I’ve been mulling over for quite some time now.

      1. Blume

        Never thought of it that way! You’re right, for me at least. They’re traits I’ve been shamed for. Or felt ashamed of myself. I think you made really good points, and I might rethink a few things from now on…

        1. The Wellerman

          ??? thank you

        2. The Wellerman

          that was originally meant to be a reply to Human Bean, but thanks to you too!

        3. Blume

          You’re welcome!

      2. Daibhid C

        Yes to all this.

      3. not someone else

        Yeah, exactly, it’s a category of brain, not a condition. “The autism” doesn’t modify what could otherwise be a happy, modern world ready, useful to capitalism brain. We come out of the box like this, and even the stuff that legitimately sucks is as much a basic limitation of the brain as all those so-called normal people who don’t have an encyclopedic memory for the thing they’re obsessed with.

    6. BowlerHatGuy

      “I’ve basically gone several hours not doing the thing I set out to do. Is it because I’m a lazy asshole”

      Dude, if you grew up in the West, and especially the US, then you grew up in a “puritan work ethic” where “lazy asshole” came from exactly the same source as calling a woman “slut” for thinking about sex and said gay people deserve to go to hell. Its all bullshit handed down.

      Dont be so hard on yourself. Women can enjoy sex
      without being sluts, people can be gay without going to hell, and you can not-do-anything without being a “lazy asshole”.

  13. Moon

    why are you calling me out like this

  14. Cholma

    Sign me up for the “Say no tomatoes” club. The texture squiks me out. Tomato sauce? Fine. Ketchup? Cool. You can use tomatoes in cooking, but don’t expect me to eat raw ‘matoes or the “bloody pulp” mass I used to find in my mom’s chili. Ick! (loved her chili; it was nice & thick & meaty, but those little ‘mato pulps grossed me out)

    1. Cholma

      Strangely enough, I don’t actually mind the tomatoes in Taco Bell tacos. Perhaps because they’re chopped into small bits? But actual slices like on a sub/hoagie/hero or burger? No thanks.

      1. BowlerHatGuy

        “I don’t actually mind the tomatoes in Taco Bell”

        I assume its because its not really tomatoes. Didnt they get busted for non-meat in their meat?

        1. Some Ed

          I’m not aware of any cheaper alternative that could pass for tomato bits. But as an on-spectrum person I can confirm that tomatoes with the seeds intact are disturbing, while tomatoes with the seeds removed are fine and delicious.

          To be clear, I’m not OK with the seed portion, but I suspect that’s because that’s still something firm and reasonable for food in something that is slimy and squishy that could possibly be something to put in a shake or something I guess if you’re really looking for a way to eat it but generally no.

          Beef, on the other hand, without any government subsidies, is definitely more expensive than tofu or gluten. To get beef, you need to feed a cow something like 100 times more wheat than it takes to make the meat alternative that I feel most resembles beef. Sure, turning wheat into gluten and then flavoring it appropriately has a cost, so that won’t be 100 times cheaper, especially since you can feed the cows nigh any quality of wheat and they won’t complain, and you can also use less expensive feed like grass to feed the cow. Also, disclaimer: that 100 number seems to round to me as well. I’m borrowing someone else’s figure because I don’t have a way to compute the real number. But it feels at least ballparkish.

    2. Jamie

      I’ve always been vaguely aversive to raw tomatoes, but in the past several years, I’ve gotten deliberate about going for them because while there’s a visceral ickiness, I also know that I do end up liking them.

      It’s very weird.

    3. Clif

      Bury them in enough salt and their fine.

    4. Needfuldoer

      Tomatoes don’t bother me, but zucchini and mushrooms do. Zucchini tastes like nothing, mushrooms taste like dirt.

      1. eh, whatever

        Zucchini tastes like nothing

        Oh, if only.

        1. Some Ed

          Agreed. I like how concise you managed to be.

          There’s been quite a few dishes I’ve had that I would have otherwise very much enjoyed but for the subtle flavor of just a little zucchini mixed in. (I’m not saying zucchini has a subtle flavor, just that if it’s like 1% of a dish or something, its flavor isn’t going to be a huge part. And yet it’s just so wrong.)

      2. Taffy

        Mushrooms can fuck right off and stay there. More power to whoever can tolerate the hateful little things, and if I’m at the table with an anti-tomato person who likes mushrooms, we’re about to need a transfer plate.

      3. Twitcher

        Love mushrooms, will eat cooked zucchini and cucumbers, hate tomatoes.

      4. Yumi

        Love tomatoes, love zucchini, anti-mushrooms. This can be tough as a vegetarian when some places are like, “Oh, you don’t eat meat? Well, how about A BIG OL’ MUSHROOM instead?” But options have improved a lot in the ten years I’ve been vegetarian now.

        Also, I am generally willing to try mushrooms in things like friends’ cooking. Generally not my favorite, but also not repulsive to the point where I can’t. And in certain cuisines (mostly Japanese, from my experience), they can be tolerable to okay.

  15. The Wellerman

    Hey Willis, hope this isn’t too off-topic, but will Joyce eventually try making her own games based on her comic like you did for It’s Walky?

  16. Yotomoe

    Also reminds me of Son Goku. In the saiyan Saga he is revealed to be an alien called a Saiyan. And throughout the rest of the series more and more of his core traits end up getting recontextualized as Saiyan traits.

    Goku likes to fight and saiyans are a warrior race so that’s why. But Krillin likes to fight. Yamcha liked to fight. They all liked to fight. The series was about fighting.

    Goku eats a lot because Saiyans eat a lot. But Krillin also ate a lot in early dragonball. They just ate a lot cuz they were strong martial arts dudes.

    Goku gets stronger after he lost because of a genetic disposition that causes him to get rapidly stronger when beaten near death. Which feels like a weird way to retcon the narrative idea of Goku losing a fight, training a bit and then winning the fight later, but ok.

    Like after a while I dunno. Felt like almost all the things that made Goku Goku were either because of his saiyan heritage or his head injury and that kinda cheapens him as a character.

    1. Jamie

      I assume you’ve seen Overly Sarcastic Productions’ detail diatribe on the topic?

      1. Yotomoe

        Nope, but I actually first saw this complaint raised by Mistare Fusion’s Dragonball Dissection series.

        I did see them talk about The super saiyan transformation though. That’s a good video.

        1. Schpoonman

          My favorite line from that video is Red stating that when a prophecy is done “right” the audience will need zero additional exposition to confirm, and I could not agree more. I’m no fan of Toriyama’s but Goku’s ascension really is fantastic.

        2. Yotomoe

          I like the statement “Once he goes super saiyan you say “Oh that’s what a Super Saiyan is because what else could it be?”. It’s such a great description. Especially considering how honestly understated the form actually is. It’s such a great subversion of expectations while still being so incredibly different that it changes the complete dynamic of the fight AND dragonball as a hwole.

  17. Sporky

    I gotta be honest. Autism is a huge upgrade from “you’re inherently bad like all human beings because this woman ate an apple once”

    1. The Wellerman

      While a diagnosis can potentially aid in personal understanding, insidious ableism can still spell the most awful mistreatment and malignant shame. Even though actual understanding of autism and our diversity is spreading, people at large still see our personalities as disorders that need to be “cured” in the name of normal.

      1. The Oracle

        Yeah, but some chick ate a fruit one time, so an entire body configuration is forever sullied to these dipshits. At least with autism, people can enjoy Sonic the Hedgehog without it being A Whole Thing.

        1. The Wellerman

          Among others, anti-vaxxers who turn us into human ammunition for their causes beg to differ ?

      2. Sporky

        missing my point buddy

  18. Yotomoe

    Tomatoes are great in pasta and on burgers.
    Fight me.

    1. Beau Kirin Maysey

      i am fighting you in the court of public opinion and hopefully winning because texture is more important to me than A. My pride; B. My life

    2. BowlerHatGuy

      I love me a slab o beefsteak tomato on my burger.

      Dont understand the hatin’ on tomatoes. Texture? Its the texture of food.

    3. Needfuldoer

      You have my sword.

    4. Oatmeal Pie

      One of my favorite things is a homegrown, in-season tomato on a sandwich with a little salt and nothing else. Or just eating one like an apple.

      Tomato lovers can be just as passionate as tomato haters.

      1. Clif

        Drop the sandwich and add more salt.

  19. Mr Ak

    Did anyone else think Joe in Panel 2 was an electronic ordering touchscreen?

    1. Yotomoe

      Holy fuck. I totally did hahhaha. GOD.

      1. Clif

        I did initially, but Joe was tagged, so I went back and looked again.

    2. True Survivor

      Yes. Yes I did.

    3. Beau Kirin Maysey

      Joe *is* an electronic ordering touchscreen, in my humble opinion

    4. DarkoNeko

      WAIT that was joe ? lol

    5. RassilonTDavros

      Oh, so that’s why the touchscreen started bending towards the bottom of the panel. I was confused by that.

    6. PirateTawnee

      Thanks to the Walky/Lyle/Lucy cutaway, I’d completely forgotten Joe was even in this scene and would not have realised without your comment. Oops.

      1. Mark

        Seconded!

    7. Blume

      I did even after reading this… Huh

    8. Taffy

      I did, in fact, believe him to be an ordering kiosk.

    9. The Oracle

      It’s funny, I thought that too, but I also noticed him first in Panel 1 because his silhouette is the only one not partly obscured with the window.

    10. Nova

      Wow yes. I wouldn’t have noticed that was Joe at all.

    11. Slartibeast Button, BIA

      I, for one, welcome our coming RoboRosenthalian overlords.

    12. Nicoleandmaggie

      Wait! That was Joe?!?!

    13. not someone else

      …Oh.

  20. LIGHTWEIGHT BAYBEE

    YEA TOMATOES ARE OVERATED AS FUCK

  21. DailyBrad

    I am not big on tomatoes, though I am fine with them in beef stew. Tomato and beef pair well.

    1. Laura

      Better yet, beefsteak tomatoes!

  22. Beau Kirin Maysey

    Another Representative of the Autism Gang coming down to decree: Fuck tomatoes. Tomatoes should only exist if they are shriveled as fuck or have a shit-ton of sugar in them.

    1. Beau Kirin Maysey

      I am going to make an online autism ‘self-diagnosis’ survey but it just says: Tomatoes– Yes or No?

      1. King Daniel

        Well I’m autistic and I’d answer “yes tomatoes” to that question pretty much every time, so goes to show the limits of a one-question survey. 😛

      2. Uly

        Tomatoes are delicious.

        I am autistic.

      3. Jamie

        Both. I have a visceral dislike, but an actual like.

        The real evils are eggplant and radishes.

      4. The Wellerman

        I’m autistic, and I think tomatoes in Pico de gallo is amazing! ?

    2. Laura

      Grape tomatoes can get pretty delicious, though. They’re sweet.

    3. Taffy

      Not to be a contrarian, but y’all can pass your tomatoes over my way. I’ll gladly take a whole tamater, slice ‘er up nice and thick, and fry that ho up next to some sausage and eggs.

      1. BBCC

        And we anti-tomato folks value and appreciate your service!

    4. thakoru

      Yes to tomatoes, no to tomato sauce. It’s fine on pizza, but otherwise it exists only to ruin perfectly good food. Seriously, my family spent years thinking I hated pasta, when in fact I love pasta. Pasta’s great. It’s not its or my fault that people keep putting weird gross vegetable paste on it.

      1. Taffy

        Okay, I’m pretty close to being 100% with you on this, with the exception of deliberately thinner tomato sauces. Everyone goes for a thick, dry sauce that’s basically paste (like you said), but then the noodles absorb all the moisture and it’s just a weird film that stains everything. Gimme a nice Alfredo or curry sauce and I’m guaranteed to hand the dish back cleaner than you handed it to me, but so much tomato sauce goes to waste if it’s not Just Right.

    5. Carla's #2 Fan

      Autistic and agreeish! Raw tomatoes taste bad and feel weird. Cooked tomatoes cause my Gerd to flare up for DAYS. And we are prone to comorbidities. I can only do ketchup really.

  23. UrsulaDavina

    Tomatoes are delicious and since apparently Tom Brady doesn’t eat them it just adds to to the appeal.

    1. Laura

      Yes, I am solidly in the pro-tomato camp. Fresh, homegrown (or roadside farmstand) Jersey tomatoes or Virginia tomatoes, to be precise. Sun-dried tomatoes, too, especially if you dried ’em yourself. Fresh, vine-ripened tomatoes along with homegrown cucumber, sliced with salt and pepper. Olive oil and vinegar too, if you’re fancy. Or mustard, mayo, and dill.
      Or tomato soup with grilled cheese sandwiches. Better yet, grilled cheese and TOMATO sandwiches!
      Sign me up, team tomato!

      1. Clif

        Don’t know about Virginia ones, but Jersey tomatoes used to be even better before they started breeding them for shelf life. Still pretty good.

        1. Laura

          Yeah. And then the GMO tomatoes came. SALMON genes in tomato? Are you kidding me? A SHELF-STABLE tomato? I remember how excited my folks and their friends in New Jersey were when the GMO tomatoes came out. Of course, those same folks also thought food irradiation was a good alternative to pesticide. 🙁 They don’t call it the Superfund State for nothing.

    2. Taffy

      Tom Brady? Like, the baseball guy?

      1. BowlerHatGuy

        No, i think Tom Brady was the guy Walky introduced to someone saying Tom Brady’s dad’s dick had been inside Walky’s mom.

        1. Taffy

          That was Tony, the dean’s son. Tom Brady was a major league baseball player who played for the St. Louis Cardinals from 1997 to 2009. Basically a real-life equivalent of Rudy, since he never actually got to interact with the ball during any official games.

  24. Jess

    anybody doesn’t want the tomatoes from their whatever, I’ll take ’em. that’s symbiosis!

    1. brionl

      I don’t care for tomatoes, my wife loves them.
      Problemo solvedo.

    2. alongcameaspider

      I don’t like tomatoes themselves on my burger but without the little bit of juice they leave after I take them off they just taste wrong to me

      Fortunately all my friends love tomatoes

  25. Regalli

    I thought I just disliked tomatoes texturally but could tolerate them in certain dishes, but uh, turns out I was probably allergic to them.

    Or rather, turns out I had an undiagnosed (because it’s only been studied quite recently as a condition) mast cell activation disorder and tomatoes are a trigger, and as my immune system flared tomatoes were one of the very common triggers so I was probably processing them as a bit more spicy than they should be all along. When in reality that “spice” was literally my tongue burning in an allergic reaction. So now I’m questioning all the foods I would try to eat but couldn’t get the hang of and the periods where I was more heavily samefooding and asking myself, was this the autism or was this an underlying medical condition we didn’t and couldn’t know about at the time?

    It’s great. Highly recommend it. I also appear to have a broader NIGHTSHADE allergy and combined with the fact that I’m supposed to avoid gluten, potato starch has become the bane of my existence. (And since it’s not a common allergen, labels don’t warn for it.)

    Since MCAS is common with EDS and POTS, and EDS and POTS are common with autism, I really wonder how many of us have ‘sensory issues’ that will on investigation turn out to be we were allergic to that food or kind of fabric or scent, but because mast cell allergies behave in a different way from traditional ones and can’t be tested with the same mechanisms, no one noticed.

    By the way MCAS is a common form of long COVID/postviral complication. As is POTS. So… yeah.

    1. Regalli

      (POTS and MCAS both being conditions you have and that flare, but COVID’s likely pushing people who maybe already had them but didn’t know into flares and those flares over the threshold into Diagnosable Territory.

      My other ‘in hindsight I’ve probably been allergic to this all along’? Black pepper.)

      1. Yumi

        I have a close friend with that allergy! They’re also allergic to nightshade peppers (not other nightshades, as far as I know), which is interesting because they’re separate allergies but both called “pepper.”

        They said that growing up, they just thought people who liked spicy food somehow enjoyed the same type of burning sensation they experienced. Which, some people do enjoy spicy things in a “burns so good” way, so I can see how that could be hard to sort out.

        1. The Wellerman

          Hmmm… on that note, is mustard supposed to be that kind of spicy sensation too? Or is that a possible (mild?) mustard allergy?

          Asking for a someone that is me?

        2. Uly

          Mustard is supposed to have the same sort of burning astringency as horseradish or wasabi, but if you don’t like it you certainly don’t need to eat it.

        3. The Wellerman

          Oh, no, I love mustard, just wanted to make sure if this was how it’s supposed to taste or just an allergy. ?

        4. The Oracle

          Pretty sure mustard is intentionally designed to remove the protective lining of the human esophagus, yes.

        5. King Daniel

          Humans: the only known species on Earth that eats, drinks, and breathes toxic compounds for fun.

        6. Taffy

          And bears. And dolphins. And certain breeds of dog. And koalas
          And Germans.

        7. King Daniel

          Do those other species each do all three things? I did specify ”and” specifically to disqualify, say, those dolphins that get high of sponges or whatever—but which I’m pretty sure don’t also go about drinking or inhaling toxins for fun. 😛

        8. Yumi

          Maybe you’re hanging around the wrong crowd of dolphins ?

        9. The Wellerman

          Oh yes. Dolphins are among the few species smart enough to get high. ?

        10. BowlerHatGuy

          “dolphins that get high of sponges”

          Wtf? Nevee heard of that one. Also where can i get these sponges?

        11. Slartibeast Button, BIA

          I think with dolphins it is pufferfish:

          “Now, dolphins may join that list. Footage from a new BBC documentary series, “Spy in the Pod,” reveals what appears to be dolphins getting high off of pufferfish. Pufferfish produce a potent defensive chemical, which they eject when threatened. In small enough doses, however, the toxin seems to induce “a trance-like state” in dolphins that come into contact with it, the Daily News reports:”

          https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/dolphins-seem-to-use-toxic-pufferfish-to-get-high-180948219/

        12. BowlerHatGuy

          “I think with dolphins it is pufferfish:”

          WHAT
          and
          i
          cannot
          stress
          this
          enough
          THE FUCK!

        13. Taffy

          Dolphins are jerks. They do some foul things with fish. A passing school of [fish that dolphins eat] is like a combination Starbucks/Adam & Eve, for them.

        14. Mark

          Oh, yes. I’ve been told that the way some spices stimulate pain receptors causes the release of endorphins, which is supposed to explain why many people like them.

  26. Florence

    Look, I understand that taste is subjective but also the dislike of tomatoes is a bridge too far

    *crosses arms and pouts*

    1. Florence

      (It’s okay to dislike tomatoes but as someone that was quite lonely and just saw tomatoes as fine, it’s funny how unpopular they are as food for a lot of people)

  27. brionl

    Them: “You eat ketchup and tomato sauce, why don’t you like raw tomatoes?”
    Me: “You eat french fries, why don’t you like raw potatoes?”

    1. Grayfinity

      Mmm… starchy.

  28. BowlerHatGuy

    Dafuq? Are we channeling righteous fury at Joe or not?!?!? Dorothy was just hangry?!?!

    Hey, Joyce, be sure to keep an emergency granola bar on your person for future Dorothy realignment

  29. Kitschensyngk

    Never put raw tomatoes in food. Raw tomatoes are disgusting.

    1. Taffy

      Maybe raw tomatoes think you’re disgusting. The raw tomato community doesn’t need this type of bigoted remark aimed at them, they’ve gotten plenty of it throughout history.

    2. The Wellerman

      Does it count as raw tomato if it’s drenched in lime and other ingredients of Pico de gallo?

      1. Clif

        Once it’s in Pico de gallo it’s mutated and no longer tomato.

  30. thakoru

    I’ve been diagnosed with Autism and ADHD for over 15 years, and I still struggle with this. That said, frustrating as it can be, the journey of figuring out which bits of you come down to your neurodivergence can be surprisingly rewarding – learning that you’re not alone in things that you thought just made you weird; discovering that the things you struggle with have underlying reasons, and that you don’t have to figure out how to deal with them all on your own, because other people have already been there; and the inverse, which I honestly love more: finding out that what you thought was typical is actually something unique to you, something that makes you special – if you’re neurodivergent, look forward to those experiences, and keep watch for them; they’re invaluable waymarkers on the difficult road to self-discovery.

  31. Taffy

    Way I see it, all my autistic traits are “just me”. It’s a single descriptor, not the sum and total definition of my existence. May as well ask “Taffy, do you have less trouble going hatless in the winter because your hair is dark and thick, or is that just you?”, if that makes sense. Like sure, it’s a big contributing factor, but eh.

    1. The Wellerman

      So wise. ?

      Also, thick how? Like, long or fluffy?

      1. Taffy

        My hair? Both. It’s dense as fuck, grows fast, and I take decent care of it so it’s extremely soft. See, I figured out early on that if I washed it a certain way, my hair got super soft, and if my hair was soft, older women wanted to play with it, which built up a very easy effort=reward association for that bit of hygiene. And apparently healthy hair grows better or somethin’, cuz it’s L O N G when I let it grow out for a few months. Hell, if I play my cards right, I’ll have it past my shoulders by next Christmas.

        1. The Wellerman

          Please tell me this washing technique, hair that long sounds awesome. ?

        2. Taffy

          Basically I just take some inexpensive (not cheap, there’s a difference) fruity-smelling shampoo, do one small lather to loosen things up, rinse it completely, do a proper thorough lather, rinse that too (but not so much that it takes away the scent), dry it partway manually (this can range from a tousle when it’s short all the way to guitarist hair spinning when it’s long), dab-dry it with a towel, and if it’s being particularly stubborn with the moisture, I’ll blow-dry it. The important part is to never strip it out so it keeps the natural texture, but also not to leave stuff in it or let it stay wet too long after washing, so it won’t create a ton of dandruff or musty smells. Also, everyone’s hair is specific to them, so if you don’t have a dark, luscious mane of mostly-straight-but-kinda-wavy hair that’s also just a bit oily, my routine may not work for you.

          If that sounds like a lot, it kinda is but also really isn’t once you’ve got it as a routine, and I’m not nearly as particular about body cleaning (soap on rag, scrub, rinse, good enough).

        3. The Wellerman

          Thank you very much for sharing this ritual. Hair XP ahoy! ?

        4. vlademir1

          ” Also, everyone’s hair is specific to them, so if you don’t have a dark, luscious mane of mostly-straight-but-kinda-wavy hair that’s also just a bit oily, my routine may not work for you.”
          Very much that.

          I’ve been rockin the Cliff Burton hair for several years now. I tried several times across my 20s and 30s to grow it out and it always, past a certain mid-long point, started to become a greasy matted mess practically overnight. Oh, I should prolly mention my hair is course textured but very thin/fine.
          Turned out the issue was my wash process and lifestyle. I was over washing, and thereby stripping my hair, too often because of grease concerns as I work in food service. That in turn was lettign my hair soak up all the airborn grease in the kitchen at work making it ever more greasy. I started letting it grow out again about the time my long time barber quit the business (because I didn’t have time to find another I trusted at that juncture), on his advice however I swapped to baby shampoo and started slowly cutting back from wash every night to about a year later going:
          * Trim back 1.5 inches and wash with baby shampoo once a year in December
          * Hot water “wash” nightly until July
          * Trim back 1.5 inches and no-poo wash with soda and cider vinegar in June
          * Hot water “wash” nightly until December

          It took about a year for my hair and scalp to fully adapt to the change, which is why I went gradual, but it’s the healthiest my hair and scalp have been in my life too and I don’t look like a grease ball ;D

    2. JBento

      Oh thank heavens.

      I was going to ask something along those lines and was stressing about phrasing the question in a way that couldn’t be honestly misconstrued as offensive.

      Thanks for preemptively answering it.

      1. Taffy

        This may be showing my limited life experience a bit, but what would be offensive about asking how thick my hair is?

        Is this one of those things, like how you’re not supposed to ask black people if you can touch their hair?

  32. y3k

    Fuck tomatoes, and fuck lettuce. I will eat my greasy bread-bucket of cheese and meat in peace, thank-you-very-much.

    1. y3k

      AND GOD HELP YOU IF I FIND ANY ONIONS.

      GOD. HELP. YOU.

      1. Taffy

        Yo, pass me those fuckin’ onions. The lettuce can be rinsed off and used as a hand towel for all I care, but onions are too good to waste.

  33. Uly

    Look, the game of “Is this an autism thing or not?” can be fun to play for the autistic individual in question.

    It’s not an audience participation game. If you’re not autistic, you’re not allowed to just invite yourself to the game. Just sit it out.

    1. Taffy

      Yeah, sounds about right. Done politely, deliberately, and with/by people I actually like, it can be fun for a few minutes. Any other time, it’s like “Why are you fuckin’ grilling me? Shut up about this.”, which somehow also gets turned around and morphed into “Don’t be so sensitive, I was Just Asking”.

      1. The Wellerman

        ????

      2. Zal

        It feels like one of those really base level social survival instincts we’re sort of stuck dealing with. Like, no matter how much the other person wants to piss, shit, and dangle fire precariously close to the bridge, if you start actually burning it you’re the bad guy; since otherwise we might get eaten by lions.

        1. Taffy

          What’s this about bridges and shit and lions?

        2. BowlerHatGuy

          Never mind that, when did lions master fire? Jesus. Im frozen in carbonite for a little while and wake up to a world gone mad. Have they started fabricating tools out of bronze?

        3. Slartibeast Button, BIA

          They were all the way up to steam engines by the time the Mahendo’sat yanked them into the space age to counterbalance the Kif.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chanur_novels

        4. thejeff

          I need to reread those. It’s been awhile.
          Definitely the best space cats.

        5. Clif

          She did aliens spectacularly well.

      3. Daibhid C

        How about one question, immediately followed by “should I be asking about this?” I feel like that’s maybe okay?

        1. Daibhid C

          Okay, now I feel like this came across more confrontational than I intended, and if it did, I apologise.

        2. thejeff

          It does kind of seem like that whole part of the conversation is getting ignored. As is Joyce’s reply.

        3. Uly

          Joyce’s reply is what convinced me that Dorothy is *really* overstepping. She’s turning a trip to Taco Bell into a fraught social experience with extra existential crises. Joyce was happy last time we saw her, and now she’s frustrated.

        4. thejeff

          Where I read it as a reflection of her own inner confusion about all of this. She’s frustrated because she’s questioning internally whether all these things are because of her autism, not because Dorothy’s asking about it.

        5. Uly

          Yeah, maybe, but Dorothy could stand to give her a freaking break.

          She wanted to have a nice trip out to taco bell. She didn’t want to have all her inner confusion brought to the front while eating lunch with Dorothy and Joe. Like, there is a time and a place, and that time and place is determined by the autistic person – not by their random friend.

          I’m willing to give Dorothy the benefit of the doubt that she didn’t get it, this is all new to her. Okay. But I’m not going to pretend that just because she didn’t know better, that means that this is all right. As a general rule, it’s NOT all right.

        6. Uly

          Firstly, I didn’t think you sounded nearly as confrontational as I would, which actually was super annoying to me but I get that this is a me thing. You were definitely within the norms of decent behavior, I’m just in a pissy mood because – well, take your pick. It’s dark out, I’ve got my period, my mom died a few months ago, the right wing continues to be on the rise worldwide – I mean, honestly, there’s a lot of things getting me in a bad mood.

          Secondly, to be clear, if I say some character’s behavior in a strip is bad a lot of people here seem determined to read that is saying that the character is a bad person. I don’t know why people do that. It’s ridiculous. They’re adolescents. Mostly their bad behavior is immaturity, which we expect because, duh, they’re still not fully cooked. They’re legal adults, barely, but there’s some important brain development that hasn’t happened yet, plus a whole lot of life experiences they haven’t had yet (and the ones that they HAVE had had been not so great).

          Which brings us to your actual question, which is… I mean, it depends.

          If Dorothy asked the question once, picked up on the cues, and understood from that what the problem was and never did it again, then that’d be fine-ish. Not fine, exactly, but fine-ish because her heart’s in the right place and she’s just learning.

          Except I don’t think she’s capable of doing that just yet, because the question comes from her excessive “mom friend” tendencies, and she doesn’t seem to grasp – or want to grasp – that those are a problem. And I don’t just mean they’re a problem because they’re annoying, they’re a problem because she’s making this a core of her identity in a way that I genuinely think is unhealthy for her. And also, ultimately, bad for all social relationships.

          I think part of “I’m the mom friend” is her belief that she’s also the well-adjusted, mentally healthy friend with no neurodivergences or problems whatsoever, and literally none of that is true. Her lack of self-insight is also annoying, even if it’s age appropriate.

  34. BBCC

    BLECH, tomatoes. I’m with Joyce on that one.

  35. The Jighole Man

    she went from having 1 mysterious force looming over her to another. no wonder she’s pissed all the time.
    god’s plan, autism, god works in mysterious ways, we don’t fully know about autism.

    1. Taffy

      Auts plan works in mysterious gays.

      1. Clif

        Aut was a mysterious gay who planned all this?

        1. Taffy

          …y’know, I wasn’t thinking that, but now I might just make Aut the name of a deity in my homebrew fantasy world. No points for guessing what their worship would be named. And I’m gonna blame credit you in the guidebook.

  36. Dara

    …finally, I get to be on the other side of a ‘no’ food thing.

    I finally know how people who can eat cilantro feel in this discussion, and that feeling is delicious. xD

    1. Wizard

      Cilantro isn’t inherently bad, but it’s really easy to overdo.

      1. Dara

        It is for me, I have those genetics.

        1. Sol

          Me, too. I once looked up what it’s supposed to taste like, and I never felt more mad at genetics. It sounds lovely!! Especially in pho!! BUT NO! INSTEAD IT TASTES LIKE SOAP! >8C

  37. SDRainbow

    Today, Joyce is me.

    There’s a brunch place near my work that I go to on my “saturday” mornings (which are really tuesday but that’s neither here nor there) and I have to explain that yes, I know that tomatoes in the turkey sandwich are in fact the same tomatoes that are in the tomato soup, but they’re DELICIOUS in the soup and GROSS in the sandwich

    1. vlademir1

      I feel with you on the offset week thing. For me my friday is the most important day of my work week, for everyone else it’s a Raul Julia as M. Bison reference ;D.

      That aside, raw and cooked tomatoes are different. A guy I used to work with would break out in (hives or worse) anaphylaxis if he was even within a couple feet of raw tomatoes. He could eat or even bathe in (had he wanted) cooked tomato products. A lot of the molecular and chemical makeup of tomatoes is changed by the cooking process. I unfortunately can’t explain the food chemistry in detail.
      They’re also very different in culinary usage too. Raw tomato on a sandwich is an acidic component that lets one more easily individually taste all the various umami heavy ingredients like cheeses and meats. Some raw or pickled onion, or just a pickle on the side, does the same. Cooked tomato in a soup or sauce is an umami booster that also helps merge several umami flavors in a single bite into a unified flavor, much like mushrooms or soy sauce do.

      1. Slartibeast Button, BIA

        Digressing, red kidney beans beans also change when you cook them. They are poisonous until they’ve been boiled for a few minutes.

        1. vlademir1

          A number of beans/legumes are like that. Kidney Beans, Lima Beans and Fava Beans are the three I always remember best.

  38. Yoder of Kansas

    Making me want to get Taco Bell tomorrow.

    1. Taffy

      Why taco tomorrow what you could bell today?

      1. Clif

        Access.

      2. Yoder of Kansas

        I did end up getting TB yesterday night, and it was bad. I swear they dip the shells in water before filling them. The bottoms are always so soggy and falling apart.

  39. Wizard

    I can handle the occasional salad, but hot lettuce is just disgusting. Do not put your frickin’ rabbit food on my sammich.

    1. Adept

      This sounds like a problem. Eating healthily may be a challenge for you.

    2. Mark

      With enough chili con carne poured over it, hot lettuce is awesome.

      (Fondly remembering the Chili Burrito at Gringo’s Taco House.)

      1. Laura

        Lettuce soup! Delish!

  40. thumb

    Haha, and also the two things your brain are tangled with are also tangled with each other. Hey, how much was your belief in Original Sin(tm) influenced by your autistic perspective?
    Why, it’s almost as if the food thing is a metaphor for the brain thing.

  41. Hazel

    I can’t buy premade sandwiches because they /all/ have tomato in them. Joyce and I are one.

    1. Slartibeast Button, BIA

      I’ve mostly given up ordering sandwiches because they always want to put in something I don’t like, like raw tomato, mayonnaise, etc. etc.

      Yes, you can tell them exactly what you want and don’t want, but it always make me feel like I am being a pedantic dick. And it still fails at least 5% of the time.

      1. ischemgeek

        I hate soggy bread, tomato slime, and mayonnaise. So in short most sandwiches are horrible and I have no idea why sandwiches were ever invented or how people stomach them. It’s always like a stack of things I hate.

        1. Slartibeast Button, BIA

          Sandwiches are great, as long as you make them yourself.

    2. Zaxares

      I’ve never liked fresh tomato in ANYTHING, but I’ll eat ketchup just fine. It’s strange, but I don’t really seem to like fresh vegetables in general except for one or two varieties.

      1. Mark

        Possibly interesting: the stereotype among parents of autistic children is “our kids won’t eat anything but French fries with ketchup.”

        1. monkyvirus

          Wait I thought that was just a stereotype of children? :p

          To buck the trend I’m autistic and I love veg and especially raw or undercooked veg (which I learned after i tried to cook dinner for some people)

  42. Plaaaa

    Tomatoes in things. Like pizza…

  43. ValdVin

    I feel for Joyce here, if only for the experience I’ve had my whole life and not getting tested until my 50s.

  44. Erika

    About fifteen years ago my mom mentioned to me that she thought I might have autism. I don’t think we ever got an official diagnosis, and I pretty much forgot about that conversation, but Joyce’s recent arc has had me thinking about it a lot lately.

    I think this strip more than anything is what made everything click.

  45. Nicoleandmaggie

    Came here to say how impressed I was with Dorothy for asking if she shouldn’t bring it up (I always had to be told to stop or embarrassingly would learn on social media years later that something I had done in the past was annoying).

    Disappointed that the comments yet again are focused on the initial imperfect behavior and not the excellent communication, caring, and growth. She realized she might have screwed up, asked if she should stop, and was told that Joyce wasn’t sure if she should or not.

    1. drs

      Hear, hear.

    2. Taffy

      If Dorothy didn’t want to be relentlessly judged by an invisible and unfathomable chorus of weirdos, she should stop saying awful things like she says in Panel 4.

      Like, it’s just a little odd that she’s looking Joyce directly in the eye and saying “Answer all my questions or I will murder you in this Taco Bell and offer your entrails as tribute to the great demon lord Barplesnetch, may he never die.”, that’s all.

      1. King Daniel

        I sometimes wish these kinds of comment were visible further up.

    3. Cerusee

      Hah I was just thinking that. Is Dorothy misstepping by putting Joyce’s known food aversions directly under the Is It The Autism? lens? Maybe! Possibly! Idk! But then she IMMEDIATELY course corrects to outright asking Joyce if she’s okay with questions like that, and that’s a much bigger deal to me than whether she was perfect about it right out of the gate. (And look at Joyce’s responses—she’s conflicted and confused herself! There is no immediate, clear-cut, correct tack for anyone to take here—except to stay open and be willing to listen to Joyce while she’s working through these questions herself, and not to push her or rush to judgement about anything.)

      Dorothy and Joyce are close friends; they talk about things, including things that are emotionally fraught for both of them. It is not wildly out of line for Dorothy to bring up these questions at all; what matters is that she’s sensitive to Joyce’s (probably still messy-and-in-flux with these brand new overwhelming possibilities) reaction to being asked them, and adjusts accordingly.

  46. Daibhid C

    See, the way I saw it, I always felt most of what my brain did was out of my control. Learning I was autistic just meant I at least understood what it was doing outside my control, which was better.

  47. Adept

    The texture things are so weird to me. I enjoy all sorts of textures, as long as the food itself is palatable. Like, for example, a lot of people freak out about mochi when they aren’t used to it, and think it’s gross. I just can’t understand that.

    I recently found out that a friend of mine who obsesses about textures lost their sense of smell long ago (they didn’t even know), and hence food only has very basic flavours for them. Enjoyment of food then becomes largely texture based.

  48. AlaninDC

    TWO DAYS??
    These kids will be entering their sophomore year when mankind develops warp drive.

    1. thejeff

      We’ll all be long dead, but Willis’s buffer won’t be empty yet.

      1. Slartibeast Button, BIA

        What happens when DYW is uploaded into a transhuman superintelligent energy field?

  49. Jenniffniff

    I feel you, Joyce. Same with my ADHD. It is me, but it also isn’t me. Something I have, and something I am.

    I’ve also had friends and family like Dorothy, who are loving, but want to help me “fix” it.

  50. Lan

    I will eat everyone’s tomatoes because I think tomatoes are Tasty Little Guys

  51. Hof1991

    Off the general thread, are about to have Dorothy, Joyce and Lucy in one place? That might create a gravity well or black hole of short cheery girls who want Walkys body.

    1. Yumi

      I feel like a lunch to meet a SO’s brother, where you have to wear a nicer-than-your-average shirt, would likely be at somewhere a step up from Taco Bell, but they are college students. And also, I want your scenario to happen.

    2. Clif

      Joe is there to prevent collapse.

    3. drs

      Dorothy is benign more than cheery like the others, and has waived her claim to Walky’s body, otherwise Lucy wouldn’t have had a chance.

      Also while Joyce has some appreciation for Walky’s body, she seems to have moved on to someone with more than one pair of shoes.

  52. Rabisch

    It’s funny. These days I’m re-reading “Harriet the spy”, with the unavoidable craving for tomato sandwiches it give. Then, I come here and find out that the comments section has become a discussion between who loves and who hates tomatoes?! What a cool coincidence!

    1. Yumi

      Oh, I’m familiar with that craving! I first read that book as a child when I was on vacation in Jamaica, and I kept asking my mom to help make this happen. The family friends who owned the hotel we were staying at let me use some stuff in their kitchen so that my tomato sandwich needs could be met.

  53. poyo

    oh god, ESPECIALLY taco bell tomatoes.. bleh

  54. JohnnyO

    Re: alt text – Sliced tomatoes good. Diced tomatoes such as Taco Hell uses bad.

    1. JohnnyO

      The shredded paper they call lettuce, also very bad. I’m aware that their meat is not rated for human consumption and their cheese is probably no better, but I can tolerate that. I always get no lettuce though, it looks and tastes like confetti.

      1. The Wellerman

        Yeah, it’s always that freeze-dried stuff that’s the same as they put in instant ramen bowls. It’s really only there to make it feel like you’re eating vegetables.

  55. Borg

    Yeah, it takes a while to get used to a new identity and figure out how you relate to yourself.

  56. egg egg

    Friends, I regret to inform you that I am not longer part of the Never Had Covid cool kids club. Urgent care informed me yesterday that I have won the Disease Lottery and that I have both covid and strep throat. I have henceforth taken my belongings to my home office, as my husband somehow does not have covid but does have strep throat.

    Wear your masks and avoid strangers.

    Also, I’m with Joyce on this one. Raw tomatoes are disgusting and taste like grass. All tomatoes should be cooked before consumption.

    1. drs

      My sympathies and best wishes. Try to get Paxlovid; when you get better, try to rest more than you think you should. Lots of reports of “I got active again and everything got worse.”

      1. egg egg

        Thank you, I appreciate them. There is definitely going to be lots of naps in my future. Preferably on the couch.

  57. Sporky

    I like pretty much any tomato product – tomato sauce, ketchup, salsa, all great – and even appreciate a tomato slice on my burger as long as it’s not too big and there’s other stuff on it, but just a raw tomato by itself? Hell no

  58. Reltzik

    I mean, I’d say it’s better to have tomatoes over Hell as alternatives, but hey, Joyce gets to have neither.

  59. StClair

    I’m good with tomatoes and mushrooms. Don’t like onions, raw or cooked, unless they’re thoroughly diced and hidden in sauce or soup; same for peppers (yes, even/especially bell).

  60. Felian

    aaaaand here we are, diving into accepting a diagnosis and living out our neurodivergent traits, because they finally make sense <3
    heck YES the texture of food is hecking important!
    i have ADHD but i am suspecting i may also be autistic. So many autism experiences i hear about totally click with me…!

    1. Slartibeast Button, BIA

      Half of the reason I hate shrimp is the texture.

  61. yak

    As a kid I really hated a lot of food almost purely based on texture.

    Also, like Joyce, I didn’t like it mixed.

    This has gone away the more I have had to cook for myself… One-pot meals at the best.

  62. bcb

    I am autistic and I also say no to tomatoes in things!

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