Petition for Joe’s dad to turn evil, but maintain his friendly demeanor.
Joe: When you said we were moving somewhere warm, I pictured Cali.
Dr. Rosenthal: This volcano lair was a bargain! We’ll save so much on heating!
Thag Simmons
This comic does not need any more evil parents, we’re already past capacity
Sirksome
Also not to imply everything has to be original all the time, but DoA has had two separate evil dad plots that then combined into one mega evil dad team up! I think that story idea has been played to it’s maximum potential. How many times can we really go to that well? Even shaking things up with an evil mom and/or evil grandpa feels a little stale.
Thag Simmons
We have two evil grandpas and at least one dot five evil moms waiting in the wings already!
Laura
Ruth has an evil grandpa. Ruth’s boy’s dad is pretty evil, too, IIRC. (Can’t remember boy’s name except skeezy Math TA.)
Thag Simmons
Dargon Chesterfield is a Bond villain
alongcameaspider
Even so we already have an few evil parent plotlines waiting in the background (Ruth’s grandpa and Joyce’s mom being the ones that jump to mind immediately) we don’t really need more
Geneseepaws
So, is hat the end game? Joyce’s nervous breakdown when her Mom marries Ruth’s Grandpa, ‘Sir’?
Well, we have two holes in our lineup now. Some of our bad dads have… retired permanently.
Rani
I want it to be a subversion where, other than the philandering, Joe’s dad is a good person who’s metier happens to be supervillainy.
Spencer
I’m thinking Richard’s gonna fuck up, but he’s gonna actually try to change once he does.
Joe and Amber being siblings is a fun dynamic and I don’t want it gone (and also their folks have been married like, what, two months now?) and I think them carrying it on just being friends loses the familial bond they’re making now.
More specifically to Joe’s dad, I think his failure is inevitable, he is clearly thinking that he just has to sit in a room and Not Cheat, instead of whatever it is that’s motivating him. I get the feeling he thinks of himself the way Joe thinks of him; you’re gonna fuck up and hurt people, and the longer it goes on the more it’s gonna hurt when he does. Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if the dude has an outright sex addiction, and we just never talk about it because “haha that can’t happen to guys, they’re just horny.”
And I think there are two wrinkles here that are gonna motivate Richard into confronting his issues. One is that I think it’ll do Joe some major good to see that he’s not doomed to do the same thing his dad has done, because even his dad isn’t doomed to it, it’s a problem to confront. Otherwise, there’s the fact that Stacy and Amber are clearly financially dependent on him in between getting sued by Ryan’s folks and paying for Amber’s tuition. Richard could cheat on Stacy and get away with it, and I think realizing that, that the woman he loves would be forced to stay with him and be trapped again in an abusive relationship, would terrify the hell out of him enough that he’d force himself to start confronting his problems.
thejeff
Is there any sign that Richard is nearly that introspective about it? From what he said when Joe found out he was seeing Stacy and confronted him, he doesn’t even think he has to sit in a room and Not Cheat, he just wasn’t feeling the urge, so there’s no problem.
As far as Joe’s arc goes, I think it would be better to see Joe overcome something his father couldn’t than to overcome it because his father did. Especially since showing Richard confronting his issues properly would mean a lot of focus on him, probably without any of the main cast around.
Spencer
Nah, see, I think Richard’s gonna have to confront it because the alternative (beyond him just never showing up in any capacity) is that he was totally right and he’s 100% tamed and will never betray Stacy, someone who’s financially dependent on him and can’t just leave because she feels like it and already has a rulebook for living with an abusive partner.
Remember: Joe’s problem isn’t “I just have to not cheat” it’s “I am inevitably doomed to causing the same harm my dad did,” which can be resolved in multiple ways. Joe’s never gonna cheat on Joyce, probably, but it’s the kind of character struggle that probably needs some textual struggle instead of just “and then Joe does not cheat.”
That’s why I’d think of Richard cheating on Stacy and then meaningfully confronting his issues kinda wraps a lot of stuff up. It means Richard wasn’t just totally right when he said “psh I got this,” it means Stacy doesn’t have that Sword of Damocles hanging over her head anymore, and it means Joe doesn’t have to worry about being his dad anymore, because not even his dad is doomed to it.
thejeff
Maybe. I’d hate to see it though.
I’d hate to see Richard fix all his problems with less apparent effort than we’ve already seen Joe go through, especially if he cheats again. I can’t see them getting the kind of multi-chapter focus that story would deserve, since they’re background characters. And unlike the parent villain arcs, that seems like it would be more focused on them than on the kids.
Also I’d rather see Joe become not his dad on his own, rather than be doomed to be his dad, but his dad is okay really so that’s fine. And that’s the path his arc is already on.
Spencer
“,going to therapy” isn’t a fix, it’s starting to fix. Joe’s never gonna cheat, so he’s already not doomed to be his dad, the problem is the constant fear that’s preventing him from being emotionally honest.
King Daniel
Willis is on record in the Walkyverse commentary as haaaating to write “cheating” storylines (there’s one storyline for instance that he utterly hated where while Danny doesn’t physically cheat on Billie with Sal, he sure as heck did so emotionally, and Willis hated that in retrospect—also another storyline where Walky was similarly after Joyce while in a relationship with Dina, and Willis outright said in the commentary there that “if Becky ever treats [Dina] the same way, I’m sending her straight back to Anderson”); from a meta perspective, it’s probably part of why Joyce’s relationship with Jacob crashed and burned and why Jacob broke up with Raidah immediately afterward. So I dunno if Richard will ever actually cheat on Stacy, looking at things that way.
Spencer
Funnily enough, I think infidelity as a story beat makes me that uncomfortable too. Something I’m writing right now (tldr: a fantasy story set after the cliche heroic fantasy story has ended) touches on that where the main character cheated on his wife in the backstory, and when I was cobbling the idea together it kinda started as a joke about how it’s messed up how many fantasy stories end with The Hero and The Princess getting married and ruling a country when they’re like 18, and from there the only way I could really process it as something where I could still like the hero afterwards is, for lack of a better way to put it, that the actual act of cheating on his wife wasn’t wrong, because neither of them are actually in love with each other and they were just kind of forced together because The Plot, and his actual crimes are everything else that resulted from it.
It’s kinda fun to write about! Getting into the head of someone who did an obvious wrong as a result of a worsening spiral and how they pick themselves up afterwards has been interesting for me to process as a writer, but it’s also amusing to me, personally, that the actual act of cheating on a loved one was still something I can’t bring myself to write as having happened.
thejeff
Richard may be enough in the background that him cheating isn’t the same emotionally as a protagonist doing so. It’s not like Becky cheating, since Richard is already essentially on the bus away. He’s not going to cheat then hang around being a positive main character.
The fact that Joe’s dad seems really skeezy and yet there are at least 5 parents/guardians of main characters who are clearly much worse is a bit distressing.
Edward Rhodes
So, did the League of Evil need to raise money for this cell phone bill?
Well… Amber and Joe’s issues with their dads do parallel each other even though Dr. Rosenthal is just philandering sexualizing asshole at his worst and not a Literal Murderer Supervillian.
They both see it as inevitable that they’ll turn up like their fathers, and that the best they can do is try and channel the Terrible Dad Quality into something more positive.
It’s just that with Amber, that Terrible Dad Quality was violence and anger and she tried to channel it into a superhero persona – a more honorable and just sort of violence.
And with Joe that Terrible Dad Quality is just horniness and he tries to channel it into a less hurtful and more respectful form of horniness by being clear about how shallow his desires is – rather than deceiving anyone and breaking their heart, like his dad did to his mom.
It’s amazing how well these two work as siblings, they’re both a lot more similar than the surface-level suggests.
These comments are actually hurtful… probably because I feel like I’m Mike.
Why bother trying, when you’ve been pigeonholed so long? Death, though stupid and honorable, still lets people like you pretend confidence long enough to say dehumanizing things.
Oh gosh, I guess since you’re speaking of a FICTIONAL character, it’s all okay….
Hmmm….No. Feelings for fictional characters are still valid and I apologize if my comment upset you.
From my perspective, Mike’s death though honorable doesn’t actually redeem him of the real harm he perpetrated on an almost everyday basis for years including possibly having a minor hand in creating the circumstances that cause Amber’s traumatic gas station incident. So I don’t miss him. I also find it curious that so many people feel like they identify with the character since he acted so blatantly antagonistic. If Mike was pigeonholed into being perceived negatively he created that himself with his actions, never really changing, and undercutting anything positive he did with his facade of amorality.
But these things don’t actually excuse my comment even though Mike is indeed a fictional character. Amber is justified in her grief. Regardless of Mike’s character he was indeed one of her first real friends and still probably one of two people she truly considered friends. I’ll try not to speak ill of him anymore for the sake of people his character resonated with, but I make no guarantees I won’t slip from time to time.
That looks like a yellow version of a shirt I bought at Walmart a couple of years ago. It was the same cut, like a turquoise blue, and had those white football stripes or whatever they’re called
I have been wondering. Is hallucinations Mike drawn in a different or older style than the rest of the characters and scenery? He seems more 2D and his color pallet and shading slightly off from the rest of the comic.
Mike gets killed and replaced by a doppelganger but then everyone just likes the new Mike better.
Incidentally, this is the plot twist of my favourite book (which I can’t name, natch, for spoiler reasons) and it’s maybe the most thoroughly disturbing thought I’ve ever had.
Because being replaced by a flawed clone that people around you sus out is kinda heartwarming in a weird way. Like you’re dead, but your absence is felt in a way that your loved ones can tell. Meanwhile a perfect copy is kinda like, okay sure, you’re acting the same so it’s fair they can’t tell.
But a replacement that’s better than you in every way and enriches the lives of your loved ones like you never could? That’s the most thorough existentialist nightmare I could possibly have.
Max
Like the bad Civil War movie (spoiler) where the doppelganger comes back instead of her husband. When they are in court. How do you know? “Because I never loved him the way I love you.”
137 thoughts on “Very special”
Ana Chronistic
oh no the feels
Decidedly Orthogonal
12:04! Congratulations on a new best since the latest server time jug-shuffle!
Doctor_Who
If they do switch problems does that mean Joe will start seeing someone about whom he feels guilty everywhere he go-hey wait a minute!
Thag Simmons
Does he get an evil dad as opposed to just kind of a dick sometimes dad?
Doctor_Who
Petition for Joe’s dad to turn evil, but maintain his friendly demeanor.
Joe: When you said we were moving somewhere warm, I pictured Cali.
Dr. Rosenthal: This volcano lair was a bargain! We’ll save so much on heating!
Thag Simmons
This comic does not need any more evil parents, we’re already past capacity
Sirksome
Also not to imply everything has to be original all the time, but DoA has had two separate evil dad plots that then combined into one mega evil dad team up! I think that story idea has been played to it’s maximum potential. How many times can we really go to that well? Even shaking things up with an evil mom and/or evil grandpa feels a little stale.
Thag Simmons
We have two evil grandpas and at least one dot five evil moms waiting in the wings already!
Laura
Ruth has an evil grandpa. Ruth’s boy’s dad is pretty evil, too, IIRC. (Can’t remember boy’s name except skeezy Math TA.)
Thag Simmons
Dargon Chesterfield is a Bond villain
alongcameaspider
Even so we already have an few evil parent plotlines waiting in the background (Ruth’s grandpa and Joyce’s mom being the ones that jump to mind immediately) we don’t really need more
Geneseepaws
So, is hat the end game? Joyce’s nervous breakdown when her Mom marries Ruth’s Grandpa, ‘Sir’?
Arawn
Well, we have two holes in our lineup now. Some of our bad dads have… retired permanently.
Rani
I want it to be a subversion where, other than the philandering, Joe’s dad is a good person who’s metier happens to be supervillainy.
Spencer
I’m thinking Richard’s gonna fuck up, but he’s gonna actually try to change once he does.
Joe and Amber being siblings is a fun dynamic and I don’t want it gone (and also their folks have been married like, what, two months now?) and I think them carrying it on just being friends loses the familial bond they’re making now.
More specifically to Joe’s dad, I think his failure is inevitable, he is clearly thinking that he just has to sit in a room and Not Cheat, instead of whatever it is that’s motivating him. I get the feeling he thinks of himself the way Joe thinks of him; you’re gonna fuck up and hurt people, and the longer it goes on the more it’s gonna hurt when he does. Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if the dude has an outright sex addiction, and we just never talk about it because “haha that can’t happen to guys, they’re just horny.”
And I think there are two wrinkles here that are gonna motivate Richard into confronting his issues. One is that I think it’ll do Joe some major good to see that he’s not doomed to do the same thing his dad has done, because even his dad isn’t doomed to it, it’s a problem to confront. Otherwise, there’s the fact that Stacy and Amber are clearly financially dependent on him in between getting sued by Ryan’s folks and paying for Amber’s tuition. Richard could cheat on Stacy and get away with it, and I think realizing that, that the woman he loves would be forced to stay with him and be trapped again in an abusive relationship, would terrify the hell out of him enough that he’d force himself to start confronting his problems.
thejeff
Is there any sign that Richard is nearly that introspective about it? From what he said when Joe found out he was seeing Stacy and confronted him, he doesn’t even think he has to sit in a room and Not Cheat, he just wasn’t feeling the urge, so there’s no problem.
As far as Joe’s arc goes, I think it would be better to see Joe overcome something his father couldn’t than to overcome it because his father did. Especially since showing Richard confronting his issues properly would mean a lot of focus on him, probably without any of the main cast around.
Spencer
Nah, see, I think Richard’s gonna have to confront it because the alternative (beyond him just never showing up in any capacity) is that he was totally right and he’s 100% tamed and will never betray Stacy, someone who’s financially dependent on him and can’t just leave because she feels like it and already has a rulebook for living with an abusive partner.
Remember: Joe’s problem isn’t “I just have to not cheat” it’s “I am inevitably doomed to causing the same harm my dad did,” which can be resolved in multiple ways. Joe’s never gonna cheat on Joyce, probably, but it’s the kind of character struggle that probably needs some textual struggle instead of just “and then Joe does not cheat.”
That’s why I’d think of Richard cheating on Stacy and then meaningfully confronting his issues kinda wraps a lot of stuff up. It means Richard wasn’t just totally right when he said “psh I got this,” it means Stacy doesn’t have that Sword of Damocles hanging over her head anymore, and it means Joe doesn’t have to worry about being his dad anymore, because not even his dad is doomed to it.
thejeff
Maybe. I’d hate to see it though.
I’d hate to see Richard fix all his problems with less apparent effort than we’ve already seen Joe go through, especially if he cheats again. I can’t see them getting the kind of multi-chapter focus that story would deserve, since they’re background characters. And unlike the parent villain arcs, that seems like it would be more focused on them than on the kids.
Also I’d rather see Joe become not his dad on his own, rather than be doomed to be his dad, but his dad is okay really so that’s fine. And that’s the path his arc is already on.
Spencer
“,going to therapy” isn’t a fix, it’s starting to fix. Joe’s never gonna cheat, so he’s already not doomed to be his dad, the problem is the constant fear that’s preventing him from being emotionally honest.
King Daniel
Willis is on record in the Walkyverse commentary as haaaating to write “cheating” storylines (there’s one storyline for instance that he utterly hated where while Danny doesn’t physically cheat on Billie with Sal, he sure as heck did so emotionally, and Willis hated that in retrospect—also another storyline where Walky was similarly after Joyce while in a relationship with Dina, and Willis outright said in the commentary there that “if Becky ever treats [Dina] the same way, I’m sending her straight back to Anderson”); from a meta perspective, it’s probably part of why Joyce’s relationship with Jacob crashed and burned and why Jacob broke up with Raidah immediately afterward. So I dunno if Richard will ever actually cheat on Stacy, looking at things that way.
Spencer
Funnily enough, I think infidelity as a story beat makes me that uncomfortable too. Something I’m writing right now (tldr: a fantasy story set after the cliche heroic fantasy story has ended) touches on that where the main character cheated on his wife in the backstory, and when I was cobbling the idea together it kinda started as a joke about how it’s messed up how many fantasy stories end with The Hero and The Princess getting married and ruling a country when they’re like 18, and from there the only way I could really process it as something where I could still like the hero afterwards is, for lack of a better way to put it, that the actual act of cheating on his wife wasn’t wrong, because neither of them are actually in love with each other and they were just kind of forced together because The Plot, and his actual crimes are everything else that resulted from it.
It’s kinda fun to write about! Getting into the head of someone who did an obvious wrong as a result of a worsening spiral and how they pick themselves up afterwards has been interesting for me to process as a writer, but it’s also amusing to me, personally, that the actual act of cheating on a loved one was still something I can’t bring myself to write as having happened.
thejeff
Richard may be enough in the background that him cheating isn’t the same emotionally as a protagonist doing so. It’s not like Becky cheating, since Richard is already essentially on the bus away. He’s not going to cheat then hang around being a positive main character.
The Quirk
Galasso?
The Quirk
So Joe’s dad is Galasso?
khn0
Like The Crimson Claw?
https://supervillainous.spiderforest.com/comic/comic-1-work-and-family/
(yes he is also a jerk)
Decidedly Orthogonal
Thank you, so very, very, much for sharing this!
PigmyWurm
The fact that Joe’s dad seems really skeezy and yet there are at least 5 parents/guardians of main characters who are clearly much worse is a bit distressing.
Edward Rhodes
So, did the League of Evil need to raise money for this cell phone bill?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMXXxxewDHQ
Inbar Fink
Well… Amber and Joe’s issues with their dads do parallel each other even though Dr. Rosenthal is just philandering sexualizing asshole at his worst and not a Literal Murderer Supervillian.
They both see it as inevitable that they’ll turn up like their fathers, and that the best they can do is try and channel the Terrible Dad Quality into something more positive.
It’s just that with Amber, that Terrible Dad Quality was violence and anger and she tried to channel it into a superhero persona – a more honorable and just sort of violence.
And with Joe that Terrible Dad Quality is just horniness and he tries to channel it into a less hurtful and more respectful form of horniness by being clear about how shallow his desires is – rather than deceiving anyone and breaking their heart, like his dad did to his mom.
It’s amazing how well these two work as siblings, they’re both a lot more similar than the surface-level suggests.
Clif
So Joe gets phantom Liz who is always just leaving?
brionl
I vote for this!
Sirksome
Hmm. well I guess someone has to…like statistically speaking.
Schpoonman
Give her some time, she’ll heal eventually.
Bajj
These comments are actually hurtful… probably because I feel like I’m Mike.
Why bother trying, when you’ve been pigeonholed so long? Death, though stupid and honorable, still lets people like you pretend confidence long enough to say dehumanizing things.
Oh gosh, I guess since you’re speaking of a FICTIONAL character, it’s all okay….
Sirksome
Hmmm….No. Feelings for fictional characters are still valid and I apologize if my comment upset you.
From my perspective, Mike’s death though honorable doesn’t actually redeem him of the real harm he perpetrated on an almost everyday basis for years including possibly having a minor hand in creating the circumstances that cause Amber’s traumatic gas station incident. So I don’t miss him. I also find it curious that so many people feel like they identify with the character since he acted so blatantly antagonistic. If Mike was pigeonholed into being perceived negatively he created that himself with his actions, never really changing, and undercutting anything positive he did with his facade of amorality.
But these things don’t actually excuse my comment even though Mike is indeed a fictional character. Amber is justified in her grief. Regardless of Mike’s character he was indeed one of her first real friends and still probably one of two people she truly considered friends. I’ll try not to speak ill of him anymore for the sake of people his character resonated with, but I make no guarantees I won’t slip from time to time.
The Wellerman
Ah, the feels. I think they are called that, anyway.
Too bad Amber’s shirt isn’t real. It looks hella comfy.
Audkitten
That looks like a yellow version of a shirt I bought at Walmart a couple of years ago. It was the same cut, like a turquoise blue, and had those white football stripes or whatever they’re called
The Wellerman
Please tell me they also had a yellow version!!!
Stephen Bierce
Not Close, but sorta kinda?
True Survivor
I have been wondering. Is hallucinations Mike drawn in a different or older style than the rest of the characters and scenery? He seems more 2D and his color pallet and shading slightly off from the rest of the comic.
Slartibeast Button, BIA
If you miss Mike, remember: Don’t pull, squeeze.
King Daniel
So THAT’S how Danny finally killed Mike in his bed
Clif
It seems unlikely Mike was in Danny’s bed. Are you sure you don’t mean his mom’s bed?
King Daniel
Mike thought doin’ it in Danny’s bed would add the perfect middle-finger finale
Roborat
Also don’t forget to adjust for wind and distance.
Yumi
Yes, that’s it, Amber… now let the tears flow…
The Wellerman
Hopefully it won’t be a heart-ache hurricane.
The Wellerman
I sure hope at least one other person around here get’s that reference, otherwise imma feel hella awkward :\
Joe Moose
No, it’ll just be a seven-year ache.
Kyrik Michalowski
As I’ve probably said before, I’d be fine having 2 or 3 phantom Mikes than face my own hallucination.
Although I do wonder how long it would take to get used to the change.
RassilonTDavros
She’s finally starting to process her grief, and wow was I not prepared for the gut punch
Nono
If they combine their problems, would we get Mike with a triangle smile, or Joyce with Mike’s hair?
Robbie
Joyce with Mike’s hair would be unstoppable
Clif
Mike with Joyce’s triangular smile would be scarier.
Keulen
Mike with a smile is scary in general.
StClair
Yes. (I didn’t even have to click through, I still remember.)
StClair
and here comes the breakdown that she’s been trying so hard to avoid, but so desperately needs to have.
Needfuldoer
Yup. She’s been fighting to keep it together, but really needs the catharsis of falling apart.
She also needs to talk this through with another actual person who can relate, but he’s too busy grimdarking it up to do that right now.
Minx
Gotta say, I like how Willis always draws post-Mike without shadows to give him that very unreal appearance.
Clif
There are shadows on his neck, just under his chin. There’s a shadow where his arm bends.
Needfuldoer
I see a heavy outline for his chin, but nothing where his arm bends. He’s also not making any indentation crease lines in the mattress like Amber is.
Rendering Brain!Mike in flat shading that fits the space works better to me than drawing him as a ghostly apparition would.
Thag Simmons
It’s really clever, especially since it’s subtle enough that you might not pick up on it when you first read through
Clif
See if you look just the same after you’re dead.
Thag Simmons
Well most people look pretty unrecognizable after being dead for a few months so he’s doing pretty good
Carla's #2 Fan
She couldn’t even hallucinate him to be comfortable? He looks like a plank. Or maybe this is what he gets for dying.
Yotomoe
“He’s not even a real brother.”
Can confirm. I’ve checked and he’s not black.
The Wellerman
You think Amber’s related to Goku Black?
I mean, it MIGHT be possible…
Spencer
Mike gets killed and replaced by a doppelganger but then everyone just likes the new Mike better.
Incidentally, this is the plot twist of my favourite book (which I can’t name, natch, for spoiler reasons) and it’s maybe the most thoroughly disturbing thought I’ve ever had.
Because being replaced by a flawed clone that people around you sus out is kinda heartwarming in a weird way. Like you’re dead, but your absence is felt in a way that your loved ones can tell. Meanwhile a perfect copy is kinda like, okay sure, you’re acting the same so it’s fair they can’t tell.
But a replacement that’s better than you in every way and enriches the lives of your loved ones like you never could? That’s the most thorough existentialist nightmare I could possibly have.
Max
Like the bad Civil War movie (spoiler) where the doppelganger comes back instead of her husband. When they are in court. How do you know? “Because I never loved him the way I love you.”
Needfuldoer
But is he heavy?
Coco Pommel
I don’t think I fully processed Mike being Dead till this strip, and it hurts like a fresh wound.