But you can give an opinion. Plenty of people have toxic relationships with friends, same as with romantic relationships. You can certainly make it known whether you think some friendship is healthy or not
i mean, it’d be nice if there were wholesome friendships with no mocking at all, but even some casual friendships have some lighthearted teasing (though it is pretty inappropriate if someone were to say “yeah they’re late to our group walk to class today because they were masturbating the last hour”)
But most ppl in sarah’s ‘group’ knows that it’s part of her personality as opposed to just full on ignoring everyone
Yeah… But Sarah is always mean. There’s that whole storyline of her having incredibly bliss the more other people suffer around her. And she can’t take any insults being shoved back at her. She’s a jerk.
Thor
Meh. I’d rather have friends like Sarah than friends like Lucy. Friends like Sarah will give you a reality check when you need one. Friends like Lucy will tell you that everything is okay even when things are not okay, not to spare your feelings, but to suppress their own.
Svankensen
You shouldn’t confuse abuse with honesty tho. Lucy is being pretty straightforward and calling people out on their bullshit right in this strip.
Eyebrow
Agreed! She was pretty straightforward about wanting to get railed over the last few strips too. And Sarah was kinda pointlessly mean there too. I’d rather have Lucy as a friend.
Lucy is the friend you want to uplift you and make your life easier and make you a better person every day, Sarah is the friend you want when someone needs their ass beat with a baseball bat. (“Someone” includes you.)
(Raidah is the friend you want when you’re willing to trade away your personality for money and power.)
Nalim Skarro
Raidah is the friend you want if you have genuine intentions of going into politics…
Joy
Straightforward isn’t how I would describe it. She was aggressive towards Danny and Wally’s been feeling pressured.
Freemage
Lucy is calling out someone she’s clearly decided is not ‘friend’ material in the first place, largely based on Raidah’s highly slanted breakfast story. Lucy believes that only good people are ‘popular’ and vice-versa. So she’s assuming that Raidah told the truth in all ways, and that Sarah, who has only a handful of friendships, must be wicked in some way.
And Lucy doesn’t know jack about Joyce and Sarah’s relationship up to this point–it’s all second-hand gossip. So, yeah, I’d be fine if Sarah lays into her next strip and pushes Lucy way, way the fork back to the right side of her personal boundaries.
achallenger
ok so full confessional speed here, I used to very much be a last panel Sarah, my understanding of interracting with my friends was to mock them, make jokes about them or us, anihhilate any weak point etc at any given chance. i was that until i was…. uh maybe 28?
I still enjoy barbs back nad forth, but I’ve finally realized not everyone is of irish and middle eastern descentok with making jokes like that, or being the butt of the joke, or having their honesty and openness rewarded with douchbaggery, even if it is all meant in fun and never serious. when I’m serious about my insults you’ll know it.
but despite being self conisstant and honest about it, I was still the dick in way too many situations, and I’ve learened how to both moderate, and just be a normal and good friend.
Joy
I still feel upset looking back at extremely mild teasing that was more about testing the waters than anything else being treated with extreme prejudice. I’m of Irish descent and wow people really very much discriminate against it. Most of my friends are Irish and I prefer it that way. Making friends with people who aren’t is unnecessarily difficult, it gets to the point where literally just telling the truth bluntly is seen as an insult and any form of insult as being a transgression worth ostracizing someone over. That’s ethnic discrimination.
It got to the point where I stoppe bantering entirely not because I wanted to but because I got flashbacks when I tried to.
PedanticJerkass
“Friends like Sarah will give you a reality check when you need one.”
Oh, you mean like the reality check that Lucy is currently in the process of giving to Sarah, at this very moment?
“Friends like Lucy will tell you that everything is okay even when things are not okay, not to spare your feelings, but to suppress their own.”
Funny, I don’t see Lucy telling Sarah that everything is okay, right here, because Lucy certainly doesn’t seem to think it’s okay that Sarah is obviously being an asshole to Joyce right now. And she’s certainly not sparing Sarah’s feelings (or suppressing her own), here. She’s telling Sarah something that Sarah has needed to hear for quite some time, and if Sarah doesn’t like that, that’s a Sarah problem, not a Lucy problem.
Freemage
Caveat: Lucy and Sarah are not friends in the first place. Lucy herself is drawing that distinction, here–“your so-called friends”.
And that’s important, here, because if Lucy actually WAS Sarah’s friend, she might have been aware that Sarah spent much of the prior semester being judged by Joyce for her own casual masturbation, and that this is basically a little payback. Is Sarah acting out of high motivations, here? No, but her ribbing isn’t rising to the point of Mike-style psychological cruelty, either.
Lucy judging a situation without all the facts and based mostly on her personal view of the world, tho, perfectly maps to her personality and prior conduct, from her immediate decision that Billie had to be the best person ever, because cheerleader, all the way through her obvious decision that Walky is her One True Love.
I’ve got a friend who will state “BRB wank” when he’s not going to respond to a chat for a while, and once you get used to it it’s kind of nice that he’s so clear in his communication TBH.
Miri
Does he mean it as in “stuff I need to deal with has come up” or literally “am going to go masturbate until the urge to do so has passed now”? Or have you never asked?
Actually, here, at least, I’d say Lucy IS wrong. What Sarah is saying is not ‘mean’. Mean would be judging Joyce for said masturbatory excess, perhaps even shaming her for it.
Y’know, like Joyce used to do to her. Here, all she’s doing is getting a little ‘welcome to the club’ ribbing in.
Miri
… not sure it’s rubbing for her pleasure.
RIBBING. DAMNYOUAUTOCORRECT that’s too funny to correct…
Is it more inappropriate than the line “Can’t hate me that much if your dating me with vulva.” That every seemed put off by.
Aelfwine
Walky didn’t violate any privacy.
Walky is also not claiming that Danny is his friend or vice versa.
Walky was indeed mean to his sister’s boyfriend who was mean to him first. These two should be nicer to each other, just because it’d be nice for Sal if these two could get along, but they’re not friends.
HueSatLight
“Imagine that you’re having sex with me when you’re having sex with my sister”
Danny was just cold to Walky, because of Walky’s history of antagonizing him. Walky wasn’t a dick when Lyle crossed the line with his jokes. But Danny says Walky’s name coldly and that gives Walky a carte blanche?
Lucy is being selective on whose meanness she’s responding to with “you don’t have any friends”.
I suspect Sarah’s one of the only people it’s “safe” for her to call out like that. Sarah’s neither close in on Lucy’s normal social circle nor a complete stranger. She’s not wrong, but it may also be a bit of venting she’s afraid of doing elsewhere because of consequences (like still having to live with Jennifer).
Lucy is on her way to the dark side here. Next she’ll be actively spying on our primary cast and spending all her time with the mean kids. The mean kids who never, ever say anything mean to someone’s face … just behind their backs.
Bryy
We also don’t know if Lucy has been privy to Becky no longer wishing to pressure Joyce back into religion.
Malaya’s pretty toxic if you’d compared her to Sarah yet Lucy seemed to like her well enough (unless she just viewed her as being ‘tsundere’) Even carla had some grating moments, i don’t think she was esp snarky to Lucy but she’s just equally annoying to everyone/not that much malice behind it at least
Lucy, who was recently presented with several claims against Sarah’s character challenges her on a point of fact that is making her uncomfortable.
She’s challenging Sarah in an honest way on something fresh and real. Say what you will about selectiveness but Lucy is showing some good character by openly challenging something she doesn’t like rather than just quietly distancing herself or gosiping.
I agree with you on the facts, but something still makes me uncomfortable about Lucy here. Can’t quite put my finger on ‘why’.
Maybe it has to do with how she’s really not close to Joyce or Sarah, and as such has no idea whether this kinda banter is just how they express their friendship? Or maybe because that ‘so-called friends’ sounds rather like a Raidah quote. Dunno.
Rowen Morland
I agree with Fridge-logic too but also the uncomfortable thing. I think it is because from our perspective she does look a bit like Raidah’s patsy, so maybe it is second hand dislike.
aelfwine
The only wrong bit is that Lucy generalizes abouyt Sarah acting like this about all her friends. Lucy should only have focused only on the horrific thing she just saw Sarah do to Joyce,
Nono
Eh, Walky called Lyle out on making Lucy uncomfortable like two minutes after meeting him.
You don’t always need to know someone for long to understand if they’re being kind of a prick.
She basically lit up at the prospect of attaching herself to Raidah and company. In front of Sarah. Is Sarah’s reaction paranoid, or is it a perfectly reasonable response to having a known gaslighter in her life?
You know what? Lucy has not been my favorite character for a while.
But Sarah needs this pointed out and her little arc of being even more abrasive than usual needs to stop. Some lines you shouldn’t cross and yesterday’s comic went over a big one.
Agreed, but it’s not Lucy’s place to say this. She barely knows her. I used to “tease” my friends all the time and when a very close friend of mine pointed out for the first time that my teasing was only fun for me and not for my friends, it totally changed the way I interacted with people and made my friendships a lot better. But being told I was mean by someone who barely knew me? I would not have received that well and even now still would be like “fuck off you don’t know me or my relationship dynamics”
That doesn’t speak well of you or your friends at the time. Toxic dynamics are plain to see, and Lucy is absolutely right on calling it out. Perhaps it is that I grew older, but I no longer have patience for meanness or abuse. It is everyone’s duty to call it out as improper when it shows up around you.
Gizen
Don’t really agree with this. It IS normal for friends to tease each other, and different people with different relationships have a different tolerance for how much is too much. You can easily argue that Sarah crossed a line for sharing information that was too personal, but it’s not like Sarah is openly insulting Joyce levels of toxicity.
Mark
But Sarah is at the same time playing on Joyce’s low threshold of mortification in this area and ignoring the impact of doing so. Friendly teasing is sensitive to both the comedic and the emotional aspects of a particular tease. “This would be so funny, and so true, but it’s a better use of intimate knowledge not to say that to her: she’d freak.”
I get the feeling that Sarah would consider this friendly teasing if someone did it to her, but hasn’t applied her knowledge of Joyce’s personality deeply enough to infer that Joyce won’t.
Jumping straight to “She turned you against me” Isn’t really doing you any favors there Sarah. (Though, in her defense, Raidiah DID blatantly attempt to do that)
287 thoughts on “Vile”
Ana Chronistic
FRIENDS are just ENEMIES who don’t have the GUTS to KILL YOU
Clif
Maybe, but whether Sarah is a friend is Joyce’s decision. Nobody else gets a vote.
uze
But you can give an opinion. Plenty of people have toxic relationships with friends, same as with romantic relationships. You can certainly make it known whether you think some friendship is healthy or not
DarkoNeko
Is it, tho ?
Angel
i mean, it’d be nice if there were wholesome friendships with no mocking at all, but even some casual friendships have some lighthearted teasing (though it is pretty inappropriate if someone were to say “yeah they’re late to our group walk to class today because they were masturbating the last hour”)
But most ppl in sarah’s ‘group’ knows that it’s part of her personality as opposed to just full on ignoring everyone
MoreWLessG
Yeah… But Sarah is always mean. There’s that whole storyline of her having incredibly bliss the more other people suffer around her. And she can’t take any insults being shoved back at her. She’s a jerk.
Thor
Meh. I’d rather have friends like Sarah than friends like Lucy. Friends like Sarah will give you a reality check when you need one. Friends like Lucy will tell you that everything is okay even when things are not okay, not to spare your feelings, but to suppress their own.
Svankensen
You shouldn’t confuse abuse with honesty tho. Lucy is being pretty straightforward and calling people out on their bullshit right in this strip.
Eyebrow
Agreed! She was pretty straightforward about wanting to get railed over the last few strips too. And Sarah was kinda pointlessly mean there too. I’d rather have Lucy as a friend.
Amelie Wikström
Lucy is the friend you want to uplift you and make your life easier and make you a better person every day, Sarah is the friend you want when someone needs their ass beat with a baseball bat. (“Someone” includes you.)
Amelie Wikström
(Raidah is the friend you want when you’re willing to trade away your personality for money and power.)
Nalim Skarro
Raidah is the friend you want if you have genuine intentions of going into politics…
Joy
Straightforward isn’t how I would describe it. She was aggressive towards Danny and Wally’s been feeling pressured.
Freemage
Lucy is calling out someone she’s clearly decided is not ‘friend’ material in the first place, largely based on Raidah’s highly slanted breakfast story. Lucy believes that only good people are ‘popular’ and vice-versa. So she’s assuming that Raidah told the truth in all ways, and that Sarah, who has only a handful of friendships, must be wicked in some way.
And Lucy doesn’t know jack about Joyce and Sarah’s relationship up to this point–it’s all second-hand gossip. So, yeah, I’d be fine if Sarah lays into her next strip and pushes Lucy way, way the fork back to the right side of her personal boundaries.
achallenger
ok so full confessional speed here, I used to very much be a last panel Sarah, my understanding of interracting with my friends was to mock them, make jokes about them or us, anihhilate any weak point etc at any given chance. i was that until i was…. uh maybe 28?
I still enjoy barbs back nad forth, but I’ve finally realized not everyone is
of irish and middle eastern descentok with making jokes like that, or being the butt of the joke, or having their honesty and openness rewarded with douchbaggery, even if it is all meant in fun and never serious. when I’m serious about my insults you’ll know it.but despite being self conisstant and honest about it, I was still the dick in way too many situations, and I’ve learened how to both moderate, and just be a normal and good friend.
Joy
I still feel upset looking back at extremely mild teasing that was more about testing the waters than anything else being treated with extreme prejudice. I’m of Irish descent and wow people really very much discriminate against it. Most of my friends are Irish and I prefer it that way. Making friends with people who aren’t is unnecessarily difficult, it gets to the point where literally just telling the truth bluntly is seen as an insult and any form of insult as being a transgression worth ostracizing someone over. That’s ethnic discrimination.
It got to the point where I stoppe bantering entirely not because I wanted to but because I got flashbacks when I tried to.
PedanticJerkass
“Friends like Sarah will give you a reality check when you need one.”
Oh, you mean like the reality check that Lucy is currently in the process of giving to Sarah, at this very moment?
“Friends like Lucy will tell you that everything is okay even when things are not okay, not to spare your feelings, but to suppress their own.”
Funny, I don’t see Lucy telling Sarah that everything is okay, right here, because Lucy certainly doesn’t seem to think it’s okay that Sarah is obviously being an asshole to Joyce right now. And she’s certainly not sparing Sarah’s feelings (or suppressing her own), here. She’s telling Sarah something that Sarah has needed to hear for quite some time, and if Sarah doesn’t like that, that’s a Sarah problem, not a Lucy problem.
Freemage
Caveat: Lucy and Sarah are not friends in the first place. Lucy herself is drawing that distinction, here–“your so-called friends”.
And that’s important, here, because if Lucy actually WAS Sarah’s friend, she might have been aware that Sarah spent much of the prior semester being judged by Joyce for her own casual masturbation, and that this is basically a little payback. Is Sarah acting out of high motivations, here? No, but her ribbing isn’t rising to the point of Mike-style psychological cruelty, either.
Lucy judging a situation without all the facts and based mostly on her personal view of the world, tho, perfectly maps to her personality and prior conduct, from her immediate decision that Billie had to be the best person ever, because cheerleader, all the way through her obvious decision that Walky is her One True Love.
So, yeah, not a fan of Judge Lucy, here.
Mark
Something tells me we’re about to find out why.
Arquinsiel
I’ve got a friend who will state “BRB wank” when he’s not going to respond to a chat for a while, and once you get used to it it’s kind of nice that he’s so clear in his communication TBH.
Miri
Does he mean it as in “stuff I need to deal with has come up” or literally “am going to go masturbate until the urge to do so has passed now”? Or have you never asked?
BBCC
Depends on the friend and the mean thing in particular.
BBCC
DAMMIT. I gotta quit forgetting gravitar roulette.
BBCC
Nope. Nope nope nopity nope.
Thag Simmons
what do you have against blowjob cat?
BBCC
I prefer my gravitar to be a person. And a ‘not fiction within fiction’ person. I let it go for Julia Gray the other day, but no more! 😛
Clif
When you finally win, we’ll all celebrate.
BBCC
We love season finales of search for Sal!
Steelbright
I think the original comment is true though. Sarah isn’t wrong… Always. She’s not always right either
Zero
Lucy is also not wrong.
Freemage
Actually, here, at least, I’d say Lucy IS wrong. What Sarah is saying is not ‘mean’. Mean would be judging Joyce for said masturbatory excess, perhaps even shaming her for it.
Y’know, like Joyce used to do to her. Here, all she’s doing is getting a little ‘welcome to the club’ ribbing in.
Miri
… not sure it’s rubbing for her pleasure.
RIBBING. DAMNYOUAUTOCORRECT that’s too funny to correct…
shadowcell
Dumbing of Age Book 13: Vile and True
Decidedly Orthogonal
Vile and True would be a good desccription of my quality as a friend (I hope), but it’d also be an amazing epitaph.
Mark
Or a good name for a rock band.
Nerrin
Ah, Sarah. It’s kind of important to work out a person’s limits with that.
RassilonTDavros
“What is ‘friend'”?
Yotomoe
A dirty pile of secrets?…no wait.
Clif
It’s secrets all the way down.
HueSatLight
Lucy suddenly very (selectively) concerned about people saying mean things because it’s fun.
pickonecard
to be fair saying “oh yeah they were masturbating” crosses a pretty distinct boundary
HueSatLight
Walky antagonizes people too is my point, not that Sarah’s not being obnoxious.
shrub
I suspect its what and how Sarah said that Lucy has a problem with
newlland(Henryvolt)
Is it more inappropriate than the line “Can’t hate me that much if your dating me with vulva.” That every seemed put off by.
Aelfwine
Walky didn’t violate any privacy.
Walky is also not claiming that Danny is his friend or vice versa.
Walky was indeed mean to his sister’s boyfriend who was mean to him first. These two should be nicer to each other, just because it’d be nice for Sal if these two could get along, but they’re not friends.
HueSatLight
“Imagine that you’re having sex with me when you’re having sex with my sister”
Danny was just cold to Walky, because of Walky’s history of antagonizing him. Walky wasn’t a dick when Lyle crossed the line with his jokes. But Danny says Walky’s name coldly and that gives Walky a carte blanche?
Lucy is being selective on whose meanness she’s responding to with “you don’t have any friends”.
milu
How “put off” would you have been if he’d said “me with long hair”?
Freezer
Walky’s passive-aggressvive needling of Billifer is several degrees of mean away from “She’s happy because she jacks off”, methinks.
HueSatLight
Walky’s a dick to almost everyone. Sometimes he feels bad about it, and tries to make up for it, but less than Sarah does.
Lucy also makes excuses for Malaya and Jennifer.
Joy
Yeah Walky was being worse than Sarah.
Nerrin
I suspect Sarah’s one of the only people it’s “safe” for her to call out like that. Sarah’s neither close in on Lucy’s normal social circle nor a complete stranger. She’s not wrong, but it may also be a bit of venting she’s afraid of doing elsewhere because of consequences (like still having to live with Jennifer).
Vanessa
Lucy is on her way to the dark side here. Next she’ll be actively spying on our primary cast and spending all her time with the mean kids. The mean kids who never, ever say anything mean to someone’s face … just behind their backs.
Bryy
We also don’t know if Lucy has been privy to Becky no longer wishing to pressure Joyce back into religion.
Angel
Malaya’s pretty toxic if you’d compared her to Sarah yet Lucy seemed to like her well enough (unless she just viewed her as being ‘tsundere’) Even carla had some grating moments, i don’t think she was esp snarky to Lucy but she’s just equally annoying to everyone/not that much malice behind it at least
Thag Simmons
I think Lucy wanted Malaya to like her because she thought Malaya was cool.
With Sarah the people Lucy thinks are cool tell her she shouldn’t like Sarah, and she’s less invested in earning her approval.
fridge_logic
Lucy, who was recently presented with several claims against Sarah’s character challenges her on a point of fact that is making her uncomfortable.
She’s challenging Sarah in an honest way on something fresh and real. Say what you will about selectiveness but Lucy is showing some good character by openly challenging something she doesn’t like rather than just quietly distancing herself or gosiping.
Masumi
I agree with you on the facts, but something still makes me uncomfortable about Lucy here. Can’t quite put my finger on ‘why’.
Maybe it has to do with how she’s really not close to Joyce or Sarah, and as such has no idea whether this kinda banter is just how they express their friendship? Or maybe because that ‘so-called friends’ sounds rather like a Raidah quote. Dunno.
Rowen Morland
I agree with Fridge-logic too but also the uncomfortable thing. I think it is because from our perspective she does look a bit like Raidah’s patsy, so maybe it is second hand dislike.
aelfwine
The only wrong bit is that Lucy generalizes abouyt Sarah acting like this about all her friends. Lucy should only have focused only on the horrific thing she just saw Sarah do to Joyce,
Nono
Eh, Walky called Lyle out on making Lucy uncomfortable like two minutes after meeting him.
You don’t always need to know someone for long to understand if they’re being kind of a prick.
Tan
I will also remind of Lucy’s immediate reaction to the prospect of breakfast with Raidah: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/04-dont-stop-billie-ving/breakfast-2/
She basically lit up at the prospect of attaching herself to Raidah and company. In front of Sarah. Is Sarah’s reaction paranoid, or is it a perfectly reasonable response to having a known gaslighter in her life?
Ragnarok
You know what? Lucy has not been my favorite character for a while.
But Sarah needs this pointed out and her little arc of being even more abrasive than usual needs to stop. Some lines you shouldn’t cross and yesterday’s comic went over a big one.
Erica
Agreed, but it’s not Lucy’s place to say this. She barely knows her. I used to “tease” my friends all the time and when a very close friend of mine pointed out for the first time that my teasing was only fun for me and not for my friends, it totally changed the way I interacted with people and made my friendships a lot better. But being told I was mean by someone who barely knew me? I would not have received that well and even now still would be like “fuck off you don’t know me or my relationship dynamics”
Svankensen
That doesn’t speak well of you or your friends at the time. Toxic dynamics are plain to see, and Lucy is absolutely right on calling it out. Perhaps it is that I grew older, but I no longer have patience for meanness or abuse. It is everyone’s duty to call it out as improper when it shows up around you.
Gizen
Don’t really agree with this. It IS normal for friends to tease each other, and different people with different relationships have a different tolerance for how much is too much. You can easily argue that Sarah crossed a line for sharing information that was too personal, but it’s not like Sarah is openly insulting Joyce levels of toxicity.
Mark
But Sarah is at the same time playing on Joyce’s low threshold of mortification in this area and ignoring the impact of doing so. Friendly teasing is sensitive to both the comedic and the emotional aspects of a particular tease. “This would be so funny, and so true, but it’s a better use of intimate knowledge not to say that to her: she’d freak.”
I get the feeling that Sarah would consider this friendly teasing if someone did it to her, but hasn’t applied her knowledge of Joyce’s personality deeply enough to infer that Joyce won’t.
eh, whatever
Whose place is it, then? Because it has to be someone’s. You can’t just let that toxicity fester on – if you do, you’re complicit.
Aslan
To that I say “hit dog will holler”
Clif
Now there’s a phrase I haven’t heard in a long time.
AeromechanicalAce
Jumping straight to “She turned you against me” Isn’t really doing you any favors there Sarah. (Though, in her defense, Raidiah DID blatantly attempt to do that)
NGPZ