Much less of one, as knowing that you are going against something you stand for rather than ignorantly doing it means that you are empathising with the other side of the argument; seeing it from thier point of view rather than hypocritically ignoring parts of the rule set when you don’t like it.
She loves Becky enough to violate her own moral integrity for her.
THAT’s love.
Yet Another Laura H.
She loves Becky enough to own her own morality and have a truer relationship with her God because of it, instead of accepting the one she’s been spoon-fed by people who (often) are using religious reasoning to gain secular power. That’s the BEST kind of love.
Aris Katsaris
It’ll be a truer “relationship with her God” if she ends up saying “I believe God wouldn’t condemn homosexuality, so I think that everyone who ever wrote otherwise is wrong” rather than her current phase of trying to find loopholes in scripture, just so she can both pretend to respect scripture and ignore it.
Shen Hibiki
Yet, it’s still QUITE a step forward, from blind belief to investigation.
Soon, she may be able to form her own image of God, as you imply.
Astatine
Except He did. Twice. In the same book. And it’s a type of law that stayed constant in spite of Jesus effectively nullifying the binding of ceremonial law, as it were. The most wiggle room there is, is that God hates SIN as opposed to people and it only actually counts if you literally act on the sin.
It’s not really a matter of condemning the people who are homosexuals, but condemning the act of it. What you suggest is incongruous adherence to dogma.
Gamaran Sepudomyn
I think it’s more a conflict of what she knows with what she believes: she knows Becky is a good person, while her beliefs say that she’s a bad one.
Personally I think it’s all a scam he’s pulling to avoid the death penalty. And to make things worse he’s got his whole “search for redemption” thing mixed into my quest for the Knights of Cybertron!
Hey, Megzy, long time- Not wait, you don’t look like my Megadumb. Oh well, I’m not gonna follow you either :P.
Either way, that what I was doing, making my own rules;
Rule 1; To scrap with the Decepticons, I’m going AWOL.
Rule 2; No more following the A-Hole.
Rule 3; This Minicon Pretender is making his own way out there, having some fun…
I keep two microscopes in my desk. One’s a compound and I keep the 16X oil immersion objective lens loaded. The other’s got a miniature flask as one of the objective lens, and it keeps ME loaded. Name’s Mike Scope. I’m a professional scientist.
Pylgrim
This is one of the best comments I’ve ever seen in this comic.
Awwwww, thanks! Admittedly, the basic framework is adapted from Calvin and Hobbes.
Deanatay
I introduced the dame to a friend who’s very close to my heart. A little down and to the left, to be specific.
My friend is a very eloquent speaker. He made three profound arguments while I excused myself from the room. I always leave when the talk gets philosophical.
And then, cats and dogs living together! MASS HYSTERIA!
Vert
Dina’s taking the best approach for breaking people out of religious thought: drop some facts, walk away. Let them stew. Eventually they figure it out on their own, or they don’t. You can’t push ’em.
And it’s not exactly unheard of for scientists to modify their results to support their favored conclusion (i.e., the Japanese stem cell breakthrough that wasn’t from earlier this year). Hypocrisy is alive and well on both sides of the science/religion debate (a debate that doesn’t need to be a thing, IMO, but nobody asked my opinion.)
Thomas64
What science/religion debate?
Science is about logic and evidence.
Religion is about unquestioning faith.
Bad science is what happens when scientists claim authority without having evidence to back them up. When people trust people just because they have a Ph.D., science becomes just another cult.
So yeah, some people don the mantle of science while acting like a priesthood — but on the religious side, even the ideal of basing your world-view on experiment and observation doesn’t even exist.
Belegcam
I agree with you, it is bad science. Just trying to point out that confirmation bias isn’t a religion thing, it’s a human thing.
And perhaps I shouldn’t have said “debate”. I’m referring to the idea that a person can’t be simultaneously religious and a scientist and that holding to either science or religion invariably hinders the other, which certainly is something that exists.
Thomas64
I guess you can be religious and be a scientist at the same time, as long as the areas where you are clinging to pre-conceived notions and the areas where you are doing research don’t overlap.
I’m not sure how that would work, though. Being open to evidence in some areas but being dogmatic in others. That makes no sense to me.
No Name
To Thomas64:
The only thing you “need” to count as “religious” is a belief in a higher power. As long as you are willing to let that higher power operate by the as-yet-not-quite-completely-discovered laws of the universe and not according to some book some guy passes off as the unquestionable truth, then you can be both scientific and religious.
ICSM
@Thomas64
You would be surprised how well people can compartimentalize. I know this biomedical microbiologist that is currently doing some research with multiresistant bacteria but still refuses to believe in evolution.
Thomas64
@ICSM
*head explodes*
Gamaran Sepudomyn
@ICSM
How…just…how?
NotFred
As Georges Lemaître, the author of the Big Bang theory, knows well 🙂
ICSM
@Everyone
Don’t ask me how her brain works. She just says that multiresistant bacteria proves nothing, and evolution is a myth. And fossils are devil’s weapons to take men from God’s Path, but the trilobites she tested some stuff on? Just fine sea bugs.
According to my GF (biomedical researcher), every religious person she ever worked with is like that. That one is just the weirdest one due to being the most, for want of better word, fanatical one.
Eolirin
Buddhism is rather about those things, actually.
The Judeo-Christian traditions hardly get to claim the entire religious side of the conversation.
Thomas64
What, Buddhism is about an evidence-based world-view?
You could’ve fooled me. 😀
Rutee
It’s a bit of a stretch to say that Buddhism rests on an evidence-based worldview. Pretty much the only thing I’ve seen that even remotely suggests that is Tenzin Gyatso, the current Dalai Lama, saying that if his religious concepts were disproven, he would stop holding to them.
tinfoil theory
What should I do if I meet the Buddha in the road?
John
Greet him with neither speech nor silence.
This leaves a wide variety of animal noises to choose from.
NotFred
Thomas64, Rutee:
I think Eolirin means that, if I recall correctly, it is believed that the Buddha realized the true nature of reality thru observation and deduction, and then suddenly “awakened” from the “sleep of ignorance”.
However I take that, from then on, the followers just believe in what he said is true, and so it is another dogmatic religion anyway.
I must be wrong though. I have little knowledge about Buddhism.
Rutee
No, they’ve added their own twists. Heck, there’s a doctrine focused on, depending on your cynicism, syncretism or appropriation. Nonetheless, at the end of the day, new evidence does not really enter the list of religious bases.
Dirk Strider's Splinter Hopeself
You mean
When Scientists Are Held To The Scientific Method (A la most studies)
VS
When The Scientist Is A Massive Hack (A la autism-vaccine study)
Masterofbones
Or any study that is repeated until the desired results occur. Or one that alters definitions in order to make itself right. Or cuts short because the results are what is wanted right now, but might not be if the study continued.
NotFred
Funny 🙂 I like it.
Sadly them both are not actually true in the real world, but it is a enjoyable phrasing job anyway.
Volkai
That’s not religion, that’s anti-science. Don’t confuse the two.
390 thoughts on “Wiggle”
Jen Aside
“It LOOKS like hypocrisy.”
“Sure, I’ll go with that. What’s one more bad decision.”
Plasma Mongoose
Hypocrisy: an important part of every religious diet.
otusasio451
HYPOCRISY! Part of a balanced breakfast!
Kris
With your daily recommended amount of guilt in every serving!
Dirk Strider's Splinter Hopeself
Good source of Vitamin R-egrets!
Malchus
It’s hypo-CRISPY!
emikochan
Hypocrispy, yum 🙂
Reltzik
So…. wait.
Does knowing that you’re being hypocritical, recognizing that fact, and owning it make you MORE of a hypocrite, or less of one?
…..
*brainsplosion*
Baggy
Mind = Blown
Blayzeing
Much less of one, as knowing that you are going against something you stand for rather than ignorantly doing it means that you are empathising with the other side of the argument; seeing it from thier point of view rather than hypocritically ignoring parts of the rule set when you don’t like it.
Deanatay
She loves Becky enough to violate her own moral integrity for her.
THAT’s love.
Yet Another Laura H.
She loves Becky enough to own her own morality and have a truer relationship with her God because of it, instead of accepting the one she’s been spoon-fed by people who (often) are using religious reasoning to gain secular power. That’s the BEST kind of love.
Aris Katsaris
It’ll be a truer “relationship with her God” if she ends up saying “I believe God wouldn’t condemn homosexuality, so I think that everyone who ever wrote otherwise is wrong” rather than her current phase of trying to find loopholes in scripture, just so she can both pretend to respect scripture and ignore it.
Shen Hibiki
Yet, it’s still QUITE a step forward, from blind belief to investigation.
Soon, she may be able to form her own image of God, as you imply.
Astatine
Except He did. Twice. In the same book. And it’s a type of law that stayed constant in spite of Jesus effectively nullifying the binding of ceremonial law, as it were. The most wiggle room there is, is that God hates SIN as opposed to people and it only actually counts if you literally act on the sin.
It’s not really a matter of condemning the people who are homosexuals, but condemning the act of it. What you suggest is incongruous adherence to dogma.
Gamaran Sepudomyn
I think it’s more a conflict of what she knows with what she believes: she knows Becky is a good person, while her beliefs say that she’s a bad one.
Animal
Yes.
Avenger_Reloaded
The great thing about standards is there’s so many to choose from.
Megatron
The only honest thing to do is to write the rules yourself.
Gigafreak
I had no idea that Calvinball was so popular on Cybertron
JA
Megatron is the law.
gwalla
I thought that was Judge Dredd.
JetstreamGW
I’m pretty sure the guy who can step on you without straining himself is the one who makes the rules.
tinfoil theory
Megatron is a cop, just like Judge Dredd. He’s a living weapon of the establishment.
Swerve
Well sure he is, now that he’s an Autobot!
gears
?????
Plasma Mongoose
Megatron is an Autobot now? CRIKEY!
Swerve
Personally I think it’s all a scam he’s pulling to avoid the death penalty. And to make things worse he’s got his whole “search for redemption” thing mixed into my quest for the Knights of Cybertron!
Vert
Hey, it worked for a bunch of Mesopotamians a few thousand years ago, what’s the worst that could happen?
Wack'd
I thought that they were dead. I thought they crashed their car.
Screwball
Hey, Megzy, long time- Not wait, you don’t look like my Megadumb. Oh well, I’m not gonna follow you either :P.
Either way, that what I was doing, making my own rules;
Rule 1; To scrap with the Decepticons, I’m going AWOL.
Rule 2; No more following the A-Hole.
Rule 3; This Minicon Pretender is making his own way out there, having some fun…
Opus the Poet
Joyce is actually using logic and research to find the truth.
Doctor_Who
Stop it, Joyce. That’s how science happens.
Tunaro
Science and film noirs.
…
Someone combine those two NOW.
Cholma
Penny Arcade already did with their Automata series (I wish they’d make more of them; much better than that children of the forest thing)
Paul
La Jetée: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056119/
(Inspired Terry Gilliam’s Twelve Monkeys
otusasio451
I keep two microscopes in my desk. One’s a compound and I keep the 16X oil immersion objective lens loaded. The other’s got a miniature flask as one of the objective lens, and it keeps ME loaded. Name’s Mike Scope. I’m a professional scientist.
Pylgrim
This is one of the best comments I’ve ever seen in this comic.
otusasio451
Awwwww, thanks! Admittedly, the basic framework is adapted from Calvin and Hobbes.
Deanatay
I introduced the dame to a friend who’s very close to my heart. A little down and to the left, to be specific.
My friend is a very eloquent speaker. He made three profound arguments while I excused myself from the room. I always leave when the talk gets philosophical.
David Herbert
Next thing you know she’ll be agreeing with Dina on evolution.
otusasio451
And then, cats and dogs living together! MASS HYSTERIA!
Vert
Dina’s taking the best approach for breaking people out of religious thought: drop some facts, walk away. Let them stew. Eventually they figure it out on their own, or they don’t. You can’t push ’em.
thebombzen
Science versus religion:
Science: “Here’s the evidence. What conclusions can we draw from it?”
Religion: “Here’s the conclusion. What evidence can we find to support it?”
Barf Ninjason
R
Barf Ninjason
elijun is so burned.
Also you’re right.
Also my wee lil device decided to post just the “R” for me.
Plasma Mongoose
Best Quote I have seen in ages.
Questionor
if only….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fudge_factor
Belegcam
And it’s not exactly unheard of for scientists to modify their results to support their favored conclusion (i.e., the Japanese stem cell breakthrough that wasn’t from earlier this year). Hypocrisy is alive and well on both sides of the science/religion debate (a debate that doesn’t need to be a thing, IMO, but nobody asked my opinion.)
Thomas64
What science/religion debate?
Science is about logic and evidence.
Religion is about unquestioning faith.
Bad science is what happens when scientists claim authority without having evidence to back them up. When people trust people just because they have a Ph.D., science becomes just another cult.
So yeah, some people don the mantle of science while acting like a priesthood — but on the religious side, even the ideal of basing your world-view on experiment and observation doesn’t even exist.
Belegcam
I agree with you, it is bad science. Just trying to point out that confirmation bias isn’t a religion thing, it’s a human thing.
And perhaps I shouldn’t have said “debate”. I’m referring to the idea that a person can’t be simultaneously religious and a scientist and that holding to either science or religion invariably hinders the other, which certainly is something that exists.
Thomas64
I guess you can be religious and be a scientist at the same time, as long as the areas where you are clinging to pre-conceived notions and the areas where you are doing research don’t overlap.
I’m not sure how that would work, though. Being open to evidence in some areas but being dogmatic in others. That makes no sense to me.
No Name
To Thomas64:
The only thing you “need” to count as “religious” is a belief in a higher power. As long as you are willing to let that higher power operate by the as-yet-not-quite-completely-discovered laws of the universe and not according to some book some guy passes off as the unquestionable truth, then you can be both scientific and religious.
ICSM
@Thomas64
You would be surprised how well people can compartimentalize. I know this biomedical microbiologist that is currently doing some research with multiresistant bacteria but still refuses to believe in evolution.
Thomas64
@ICSM
*head explodes*
Gamaran Sepudomyn
@ICSM
How…just…how?
NotFred
As Georges Lemaître, the author of the Big Bang theory, knows well 🙂
ICSM
@Everyone
Don’t ask me how her brain works. She just says that multiresistant bacteria proves nothing, and evolution is a myth. And fossils are devil’s weapons to take men from God’s Path, but the trilobites she tested some stuff on? Just fine sea bugs.
According to my GF (biomedical researcher), every religious person she ever worked with is like that. That one is just the weirdest one due to being the most, for want of better word, fanatical one.
Eolirin
Buddhism is rather about those things, actually.
The Judeo-Christian traditions hardly get to claim the entire religious side of the conversation.
Thomas64
What, Buddhism is about an evidence-based world-view?
You could’ve fooled me. 😀
Rutee
It’s a bit of a stretch to say that Buddhism rests on an evidence-based worldview. Pretty much the only thing I’ve seen that even remotely suggests that is Tenzin Gyatso, the current Dalai Lama, saying that if his religious concepts were disproven, he would stop holding to them.
tinfoil theory
What should I do if I meet the Buddha in the road?
John
Greet him with neither speech nor silence.
This leaves a wide variety of animal noises to choose from.
NotFred
Thomas64, Rutee:
I think Eolirin means that, if I recall correctly, it is believed that the Buddha realized the true nature of reality thru observation and deduction, and then suddenly “awakened” from the “sleep of ignorance”.
However I take that, from then on, the followers just believe in what he said is true, and so it is another dogmatic religion anyway.
I must be wrong though. I have little knowledge about Buddhism.
Rutee
No, they’ve added their own twists. Heck, there’s a doctrine focused on, depending on your cynicism, syncretism or appropriation. Nonetheless, at the end of the day, new evidence does not really enter the list of religious bases.
Dirk Strider's Splinter Hopeself
You mean
When Scientists Are Held To The Scientific Method (A la most studies)
VS
When The Scientist Is A Massive Hack (A la autism-vaccine study)
Masterofbones
Or any study that is repeated until the desired results occur. Or one that alters definitions in order to make itself right. Or cuts short because the results are what is wanted right now, but might not be if the study continued.
NotFred
Funny 🙂 I like it.
Sadly them both are not actually true in the real world, but it is a enjoyable phrasing job anyway.
Volkai
That’s not religion, that’s anti-science. Don’t confuse the two.
Peruhain
It’s also how modern Biblical scholarship works, though not the kind they teach at the seminary Joyce’s pastor went to.
A Scientist
Keep going, Joyce! This is how my job happens!
Mr k
“Sarah, why is there a pig with wings outside my window?”
Tunaro
Because God made flying bacon to prove his awesomeness?
Plasma Mongoose
But bacon is an unclean meat, a flying cow would have been more kosher.
Tunaro
Isn’t that where buffalo wings come from?