Somethin’ about that’s always’d bugged me: If they get ya, an’ ya go back in time, could you change history? Off the top of my head are JFK, WW1 or 2, and/or inventing stuff waaay before they were logically s’posed to, like a 1920’s iPod. Hell, why don’t people volunteer to get zapped and just get rich off future info like in Back to the Future?
Leorale
Maybe they DID! Cars weren’t supposed to be invented until 1972.
Mr. Random
Due to the nature of Doctor Who, and the nature of the angels, you most likely couldn’t. The angels feed off of possibility. So, I guess, it isn’t well explained, but I’m guessing that you are put in the exact spot where you can affect things the least. Like a balloon bursting, the air escapes out of the weakest point. You go to the point where you’re potential is the lowest.
Mr. Random
Grammar.
That Damn Rat
Also, in the Whonivers time kinda has a mind of it’s own, and will bend events to ensure all the really important things happen anyway.
coolhandluke
people can send messages and interact with the world around them so they can change events, but they don’t live the lives they were going to thus the loss of what could have been. Time for them becomes a fixed point relatively speaking because they were locked into what is the past from their perspective
Jarid Scott
I am so confused by this entire conversation. Danny is crying angel food cake? What?
miyto
Marathon Doctor Who and some of what they said will make sense.
Mainly the context of Weeping Angels (recurring whovian monstrosities),
the time-travel portion?
It has conflicting sets of physics (so watch it enough that you could tell *me* if they had sufficient universe-hopping to validate plural mutually-exclusive time-travel mechanics, then someone will know *if* whovian time-travel makes any sense)
nibblrrr
The Weeping Angels are aliens in Doctor Who that appear as statues if you look at them, but if you don’t for even just a moment (“Don’t even blink!”), they come alive and kill you (sometimes by teleporting you back in time). There are these cute “Monster Files” vids on Youtube (a DVD special, I guess?), that might explain a bit. 😉
I can also really recommend watching episode 3×10 “Blink” – the 1st time the Angels appear. It’s a very unusual (and very good) Dr. Who episode, completely beside the season storyline, and it’s fun even completely out of context.
The Weeping Angels only appear in 3 episodes, and everything but their core property (being unable to move when you look at them) was completely changed the second time around, and then back again. And even within one version, they aren’t logically consistent. Since DW is a prime example of soft fiction, I really wouldn’t bother trying to explain it. ^^
Sparks
As a lifelong Whovian, my succinct definition of how time-travel works in that universe is “it functions on refined handwavium, a touch of retcon, and some ad-hoc bullshitting.”
DragonStryk72
Well, actually, tampering with the timeline has the whole issue of huge paradoxes, such as when Rose saved her dad that one time. Then of course, you would alert the Doctor to any disturbances that you create with your interference, and thus he stops you, and it’s all over.
nibblrrr
The important stuff in the whoniverse is “fixed” anyway (and only timelords can tell them apart) – some things will always happen one way or the other, no matter how you try to change them. And telling people you know stuff because you are from the future surely works, right? 😀
Marcos Dantas
Funny thing, I just read “The man who came early”, Poul Anderson, yesterday. It is a good descontruction of ‘time-traveller-is-like-a-god’ idea.
gka
Blink was one of the only episode that used stable time loops, so from its perspective, probably not.
But really time travel in Dr. Who makes zero sense and you shouldn’t think about it too hard.
Jen Aside
Well, it’s all just a ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey… stuff.
nobodez
Yep, time travel doesn’t make sense, and as the Commander once said, “A watched cheetah never bevels.” Why? Because if you think about time travel, it doesn’t work, but it you think about how a cheetah can or can’t bevel, it works perfectly fine.
icepyrox
You could change history about as much as any Dr Who episode ever. I mean, the show is about time traveling, both backwards and forwards. It’s addressed many times that history takes place as it should. It’s the how and the other details that can be changed.
DudeMyDadOwnsADealership
Arguably, simply being sent back in time would be enough to change history.
Seriously, Dr. Who, Back to the Future, or Even Futurama, there is no more fertile sci-fi high-concept soil than time travel.
OR…
The Weeping Angels are simply one of the worst ideas ever written into the Dr Who mythology. Yeah, I said it. They make no sense from a physics standpoint and as a plot device they’re a complete ass-pull.
Well, more complaining about suspension of disbelief. I know a lot of Dr Who falls apart under a microscope (so do most sci-fi shows). BUT- as long as I don’t stop in the middle of an episode and shout “What?!” at the TV, I’m okay with the ‘wibbley-wobbley, timey-whimey crap’. The Angels, though, didn’t make sense on any level from the very beginning. This isn’t a Dr Who forum, however, so I don’t think we need to spend three pages debating villain design.
I think the only person she’s going to be hurting in the near future is herself.
someguywithakatana
well, you win the award for darkest fucking comment.
Quatoria
I don’t think I mean what you seem to think I mean. I’m saying I don’t think she’s going to be doing much in the immediate-term aside from beating herself up, mentally. I know that expression she’s got. I know how it felt to be convinced that you’re entirely broken, worthless, even dangerous to the people around you – such that you try to flee or avoid the people who love you, because you think that’s the kindest thing you can do for them. That’s where Amber looks like she is.
There. Now which comment is darkest?
someguywithakatana
Mine, apparently.
Sincerest apologies for misinterpreting your comment. I have friends who’ve had issues with self-harm, so I’m a little hyper-sensitive to such issues.
Also, the Mary gravatar makes everything I type seem really hyper-judgmental.
Quatoria
Hey, we’ve got that in common, anyway. The avatar as well as the experience with friends. No harm done, and no apology needed. 🙂 I didn’t want anyone thinking that I’d refer to self-harm in such a casual way.
Bill
I agree with the “beating herself up mentally” assessment. She is being forced to pull both her boxes out into the open and take inventory, and then dispose of the things that are toxic. And that’s going to be a tough row to hoe.
But who is Amber’s roommate? Dina, who is somewhat of a loner and misfit herself (been there myself so it’s easy for me to recognize). Maybe this is the long-awaited Dina-centric arc coming up as Dina comes to Amber’s aid and displays a depth of concern and understanding that we had no idea existed within her.
Batman wears tights and trunks. So really he’s never wearing pants.
If I were him I’d use that fact to make criminals uncomfortable. Just sneak up behind then and whisper “I’m not wearing any pants” with that trademark Batman growl.
It’s been a tough day and this thread makes me smile
Yotomoe
“In fact, I prefer to fight crime without pants. It’s much rarer to see me fighting crime with pants.”
Batman
BECAUSE I’M BATMAN.
Tunaro
If Batman can breath in space, he can sure as Hell fight without pants on.
Batman
I fought Superman to a draw.
Twice.
Nobody questions my style choices.
Yotomoe
Well to be fair, Superman doesn’t wear pants either.
Tunaro
Do any superheroes? Wonder Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern, Spider-Man, Iron Man… No pants.
All I can think of is The Hulk and his tear into shorts every time he gets pissed. Where the Hell does Bruce Banner keep getting purple pants?
Kirby
It depends? A lot of ‘street clothes heroes’ wear pants of some sort. I mean the ones who’ve gotten a bit rebooted and tend to wear “edgier” or more “normal” clothes than the big elaborate costumes.
And technically Wonder Woman did for a bit there because all the fanboys lost their **** that she put pants on.
271 thoughts on “Zipper”
Jen Aside
Don’t blink.
Keroshino
Too late, now he’s Weeping Angel food!
Tunaro
Somethin’ about that’s always’d bugged me: If they get ya, an’ ya go back in time, could you change history? Off the top of my head are JFK, WW1 or 2, and/or inventing stuff waaay before they were logically s’posed to, like a 1920’s iPod. Hell, why don’t people volunteer to get zapped and just get rich off future info like in Back to the Future?
Leorale
Maybe they DID! Cars weren’t supposed to be invented until 1972.
Mr. Random
Due to the nature of Doctor Who, and the nature of the angels, you most likely couldn’t. The angels feed off of possibility. So, I guess, it isn’t well explained, but I’m guessing that you are put in the exact spot where you can affect things the least. Like a balloon bursting, the air escapes out of the weakest point. You go to the point where you’re potential is the lowest.
Mr. Random
Grammar.
That Damn Rat
Also, in the Whonivers time kinda has a mind of it’s own, and will bend events to ensure all the really important things happen anyway.
coolhandluke
people can send messages and interact with the world around them so they can change events, but they don’t live the lives they were going to thus the loss of what could have been. Time for them becomes a fixed point relatively speaking because they were locked into what is the past from their perspective
Jarid Scott
I am so confused by this entire conversation. Danny is crying angel food cake? What?
miyto
Marathon Doctor Who and some of what they said will make sense.
Mainly the context of Weeping Angels (recurring whovian monstrosities),
the time-travel portion?
It has conflicting sets of physics (so watch it enough that you could tell *me* if they had sufficient universe-hopping to validate plural mutually-exclusive time-travel mechanics, then someone will know *if* whovian time-travel makes any sense)
nibblrrr
The Weeping Angels are aliens in Doctor Who that appear as statues if you look at them, but if you don’t for even just a moment (“Don’t even blink!”), they come alive and kill you (sometimes by teleporting you back in time). There are these cute “Monster Files” vids on Youtube (a DVD special, I guess?), that might explain a bit. 😉
I can also really recommend watching episode 3×10 “Blink” – the 1st time the Angels appear. It’s a very unusual (and very good) Dr. Who episode, completely beside the season storyline, and it’s fun even completely out of context.
The Weeping Angels only appear in 3 episodes, and everything but their core property (being unable to move when you look at them) was completely changed the second time around, and then back again. And even within one version, they aren’t logically consistent. Since DW is a prime example of soft fiction, I really wouldn’t bother trying to explain it. ^^
Sparks
As a lifelong Whovian, my succinct definition of how time-travel works in that universe is “it functions on refined handwavium, a touch of retcon, and some ad-hoc bullshitting.”
DragonStryk72
Well, actually, tampering with the timeline has the whole issue of huge paradoxes, such as when Rose saved her dad that one time. Then of course, you would alert the Doctor to any disturbances that you create with your interference, and thus he stops you, and it’s all over.
nibblrrr
The important stuff in the whoniverse is “fixed” anyway (and only timelords can tell them apart) – some things will always happen one way or the other, no matter how you try to change them. And telling people you know stuff because you are from the future surely works, right? 😀
Marcos Dantas
Funny thing, I just read “The man who came early”, Poul Anderson, yesterday. It is a good descontruction of ‘time-traveller-is-like-a-god’ idea.
gka
Blink was one of the only episode that used stable time loops, so from its perspective, probably not.
But really time travel in Dr. Who makes zero sense and you shouldn’t think about it too hard.
Jen Aside
Well, it’s all just a ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey… stuff.
nobodez
Yep, time travel doesn’t make sense, and as the Commander once said, “A watched cheetah never bevels.” Why? Because if you think about time travel, it doesn’t work, but it you think about how a cheetah can or can’t bevel, it works perfectly fine.
icepyrox
You could change history about as much as any Dr Who episode ever. I mean, the show is about time traveling, both backwards and forwards. It’s addressed many times that history takes place as it should. It’s the how and the other details that can be changed.
DudeMyDadOwnsADealership
Arguably, simply being sent back in time would be enough to change history.
Seriously, Dr. Who, Back to the Future, or Even Futurama, there is no more fertile sci-fi high-concept soil than time travel.
Plasma Mongoose
Why? I don’t see any statues anywhere nearby.
ninja_jesus
That’s because they blinked!
Lokitsu
OR…
The Weeping Angels are simply one of the worst ideas ever written into the Dr Who mythology. Yeah, I said it. They make no sense from a physics standpoint and as a plot device they’re a complete ass-pull.
gka
Wait.
You’re complaining about PHYSICS in DR WHO?
Lokitsu
Well, more complaining about suspension of disbelief. I know a lot of Dr Who falls apart under a microscope (so do most sci-fi shows). BUT- as long as I don’t stop in the middle of an episode and shout “What?!” at the TV, I’m okay with the ‘wibbley-wobbley, timey-whimey crap’. The Angels, though, didn’t make sense on any level from the very beginning. This isn’t a Dr Who forum, however, so I don’t think we need to spend three pages debating villain design.
icepyrox
Blame Moffat. That’s what I do.
Idon'tcarenomore
Ah man.
TheOthin
“Cliffs notes on my girlfriend: she’s basically Batman.”
PureMajora
Sal and Amber have more in common than you’d think.
Mr K
When they realize that, they’ll fall in love.
Haven
I like the way you think.
Plasma Mongoose
By love, you mean Foe Yay hate sex right?
Mr. Random
It does seem to be a popular thing with Sal.
Tunaro
All I can hear in my head now is the Adam West Batman Theme segueing into cheesy porn music…
…
Da na na na na na na na Bom Chicka Wowow…
Mr. Random
So… Sal is Catwoman?
I can buy that.
And Mike is Joker.
AgentKeen
Ethan is Two-Face? ‘Double’ life, is/used to be the best friend.
Tenn
Buttman & Throbbin’
Jen Aside
I feel like requesting Sal and Marcie was a mistake! …one I will fix if such a prize is offered again ;D
PureMajora
Sal and Marcie are never a mistake.
Jen Aside
BUT I ONLY GOT TO CHOOSE TWO
…
=C
Minomelo
I though Sal was amazi-girl though?
Clif
Spoilers – http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/75936621644/spoilers
Vree
Danny will walk back to Sal in rage and demand that she takes on the amazi-girl mantle to atone for what she did in the past.
Sal will become a darker and angstier new Amazi-Girl before Amber notices the mess she does of it and returns to reclaim her cowl.
After going on a time travelling adventure with Dina first of course.
Kelly
That… that sounds like exactly the sort of mess that Marvel or DC would actually write.
Mr. Random
They did.
It is both funny and sad.
Historyman68
AmaziFall
Historyman68
No, wait, I got it.
Amazrael.
TheOthin
Like taste in knives?
Quatoria
Oh, Amber. 🙁
Mr K
I bet she’s going after Sal.
Quatoria
I think the only person she’s going to be hurting in the near future is herself.
someguywithakatana
well, you win the award for darkest fucking comment.
Quatoria
I don’t think I mean what you seem to think I mean. I’m saying I don’t think she’s going to be doing much in the immediate-term aside from beating herself up, mentally. I know that expression she’s got. I know how it felt to be convinced that you’re entirely broken, worthless, even dangerous to the people around you – such that you try to flee or avoid the people who love you, because you think that’s the kindest thing you can do for them. That’s where Amber looks like she is.
There. Now which comment is darkest?
someguywithakatana
Mine, apparently.
Sincerest apologies for misinterpreting your comment. I have friends who’ve had issues with self-harm, so I’m a little hyper-sensitive to such issues.
Also, the Mary gravatar makes everything I type seem really hyper-judgmental.
Quatoria
Hey, we’ve got that in common, anyway. The avatar as well as the experience with friends. No harm done, and no apology needed. 🙂 I didn’t want anyone thinking that I’d refer to self-harm in such a casual way.
Bill
I agree with the “beating herself up mentally” assessment. She is being forced to pull both her boxes out into the open and take inventory, and then dispose of the things that are toxic. And that’s going to be a tough row to hoe.
But who is Amber’s roommate? Dina, who is somewhat of a loner and misfit herself (been there myself so it’s easy for me to recognize). Maybe this is the long-awaited Dina-centric arc coming up as Dina comes to Amber’s aid and displays a depth of concern and understanding that we had no idea existed within her.
Mr K
Amber: Want me to make your hands match, Sal?!
Leorale
Oh no! Amber’s glasses took her with them, when they were drawn to Dorothy
Carlos
“I however, most definitely am”
Plasma Mongoose
I bet Batman never disappeared on Gordan when he wasn’t wearing pants.
Doctor_Who
Batman wears tights and trunks. So really he’s never wearing pants.
If I were him I’d use that fact to make criminals uncomfortable. Just sneak up behind then and whisper “I’m not wearing any pants” with that trademark Batman growl.
Plasma Mongoose
“I’m Batman and I can fight crime without pants”
Leorale
It’s been a tough day and this thread makes me smile
Yotomoe
“In fact, I prefer to fight crime without pants. It’s much rarer to see me fighting crime with pants.”
Batman
BECAUSE I’M BATMAN.
Tunaro
If Batman can breath in space, he can sure as Hell fight without pants on.
Batman
I fought Superman to a draw.
Twice.
Nobody questions my style choices.
Yotomoe
Well to be fair, Superman doesn’t wear pants either.
Tunaro
Do any superheroes? Wonder Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern, Spider-Man, Iron Man… No pants.
All I can think of is The Hulk and his tear into shorts every time he gets pissed. Where the Hell does Bruce Banner keep getting purple pants?
Kirby
It depends? A lot of ‘street clothes heroes’ wear pants of some sort. I mean the ones who’ve gotten a bit rebooted and tend to wear “edgier” or more “normal” clothes than the big elaborate costumes.
And technically Wonder Woman did for a bit there because all the fanboys lost their **** that she put pants on.
Badeyes
Other than the nipple suit.
That. Was. Horrid.
DSL
Batman: “I’m not wearing hockey pants. Or any other kind of pants.”
nothri
Wait…is it batman or Gordon who isn’t wearing the pants in this scenario?
Reltzik