162

Pathological
Posted on October 8, 2019 by David M Willis
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162 thoughts on “Pathological”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    lessons in agreeing too quickly with others

    coming soon: clicking on “I Agree” w/o reading the Terms of Service

    1. Ana Chronistic

      I always heard it “smooth move, Ex-Lax”

      1. JustcallmeSoul

        Haha, is funny because X-Lax is name brand of laxative and makes ones bowel movements smooth.

        1. Clif

          Whereas Ferguson is the name of a plumbing supply company, which is funny since their pipes move your movements smoothly along to wherever it is they are going.

    2. Keulen

      There are people who read the terms of service before clicking “I Agree”?

      1. ktbear

        No don’t be silly, Ana would never make up stuff like that.

      2. GreatContagion

        They also go into stores, and buy a pair of socks because they’d feel bad leaving without buying anything.

    3. Deanatay

      But… the “I Agree” button stands between me and EVERYTHING I WANT…

    4. Ryek Hvek

      …and don’t we all miss old Windows computers automatically saying YES to the “do you really want to download this?” question… (despite providing you with a NO button to click on the pop-up)

  2. Nono

    Good, Jacob. No mercy!

    FINISH HER!

    1. Jade

      Please no, as he just said, he already has a girlfriend 😉

  3. Chaucer59

    If she’s smart, the next words out of her mouth are, “I’m sorry. I just got swept up in the moment. It’ll be all right. I’ll tell him the truth.”

    1. Mra

      If she was smart she would have done that a few comics back.

    2. Svankensen

      Yep. I’m not liking how Joyce behaves when backed into a social corner. Better fix this soon.

      1. GoblinScribe

        Yeah, she has a really manipulative side here. She’s almost playing on his insecurities, even if she doesn’t realize how controlling that is.

    3. LeslieBean4shizzle

      Also, and correct me if I’m wrong here, but wasn’t it Harrison who said something like “you must be his girlfriend” and, after a moment, Joyce was like “… yes!”

      If so, then “I got flustered when he asked if I was your girlfriend, cause I kinda want to be, and then I panicked and said yes and I couldn’t think of a way to get out of it without sounding insane.” would also be a truthful way to go that would also defuse the situation somewhat.

      Not that I’m expecting things to get defused, but you never know.

      1. Shane Wegner

        He is indeed the one who jumped to a conclusion and framed the entire situation a certain way which she didn’t have the will to counteract. Doesn’t make her lack of courage right, but she didn’t initiate the misunderstanding. “I just wanted to see a baby!”

      2. Felian

        Yes, i think that would have been the most honest solution.

    4. Chaucer59

      Also, however, I must say Jacob’s answer is bullshit. I get the feeling he was dreading the moment Raidah met his brother.

      1. Otl1999

        Based on what? Based on the fact that he hadn’t discussed her with him? A girl he’s been going out with for all of (maybe) 6 weeks? Hardly the type of relationship that calls for a detailed accounting yet.

        1. Chaucer59

          Based on exactly what Joyce said. After all this time, Harrison didn’t even know Raidah’s name. Also, Jacob went along with this, he says, because Harrison likes Joyce. Raidah has been Jacob’s g/f in name, but I get the impression she’s been mainly—as Harrison said—a checklist g/f—arm candy with family wealth and an impressive major.

      2. Clif

        If he wasn’t dreading it before, he should be now.

      3. thejeff

        No reason to think so. His comment here is based on what Harrison said about liking Joyce and expecting Jacob to show up with some “checklist” girlfriend. He apparently picked Raidah looking for his brother’s approval. Makes no sense to think he was dreading it. That was the point.

    5. Jeff K!,

      Honestly, I actually do expect that to be the case.

      Joyce’s conception of relationships mostly comes from romcoms and sitcoms, not from actual experience. Her character arcs have so far been about acting on her expectations of the way the world works until she runs into a wall where she realizes the moral conflict; after which she almost immediately self-corrects to the best of her ability.

      She is fundamentally a good person, it’s a matter of adjusting what her expectations are.

      1. Chris Phoenix

        Heh, I was just reading about romcoms…
        And how there just aren’t any movies about healthy relationships…
        https://girlswithslingshots.com/comic/gws-1258

  4. Lawzlo

    WAIT, WE’RE ALREADY BACK HERE?
    I was just getting into that Malaya/Mary thing!

    …I’m the only one, aren’t I?

    1. Mra

      You are not. It’s Patreon bate.

      1. Needfuldoer

        “Bait”. You’re thinking of Slipshine.

  5. Slartibeast Button, BIA

    Joyce is my girlfraud.

  6. Bagge

    Whatever, Jacob. You still won’t do it, because that would mean not haing Joyce as a girlfriend.

    and you want to have Joyce as a girlfriend.

    1. Nono

      He might not anymore after this.

      1. Bagge

        I bet he does.

  7. Solenoid

    This is when Sarah, Raidah, or both of them walk into the restaurant.

    1. Slartibeast Button, BIA

      A misanthrope and a bully walk into a restaurant…

      1. Delicious Taffy

        The restaurant says “Hey! Watch where you’re going!”

        1. Clif

          Which is funny because restaurants seldom talk.

        2. Jess

          The three of you could take that act on the road. I’m not joking. Crowdsourced jokes are cool.

    2. HeatherJean

      I was kind of hoping Carla would roll into the restaurant.

    3. Bagge

      I can’t see that either of them is needed. These two idiots are fudging it up perfectly well themselves.

      1. HeatherJean

        Ah, but Harrison might know of Carla from his famous court case, or vice versa, and lead to conversation that would make Joyce’s head explode with new concepts. And that’s always fun.

        Besides, there’s been a definite lack of Carla recently.

  8. Dark

    Just run, Joyce. Just get outta there before Harrison comes back.

  9. Jess

    AND WE’RE BACK

    It seems to me that the best thing for Jacob to do, especially if he’s having a proper revelation about how he’s putting his brother before himself in literally every way, is to break up with Raidah (the checklist girlfriend) and take a break from hanging out with Joyce (who lied and put him into a difficult situation, and who also has earned Harrison’s approval). That way he can take some time to come to terms with what he wants to do with his life, away from anyone’s influence. Then he can decide whether he, Jacob, specifically and personally, wants to date either of the girls.

    1. Jess

      Also, let’s be real, if Joyce views Jacob as her friend or as anything other than just a piece of boyfriend meat…she’ll put aside her ego, attraction, and misplaced possessiveness to allow Jacob to focus on hinself, his emotional needs, and his relationship with his brother.

      1. Khyrin

        Hey now! It’s unfair to call Raidah an ambulance chaser.

        She doesn’t have her license yet.

    2. Delicious Taffy

      That would require him to be an autonomous individual, though. And if he’s that, he won’t continue to be nothing but an object for Joyce and Raidah to fight over. What, do you want Jacob to own himself, rather than letting a horny fundamentalist and a snooty ambulance chaser own him?

      1. Clif

        Hard choice.

        Carla is the only autonomous individual; the rest of us are just meat puppets.

        1. Needfuldoer

          “We’re minds pilotin’ upright carcasses, assembled from meat and bone.”

        2. Chris Phoenix

          It’s funny because in the other comic Carla is an auto.

    3. thejeff

      Meanwhile, he can have casual sex with Sarah, just to keep himself distracted.

  10. Delicious Taffy

    It’s almost like the grand majority of this has been an improvised farce that started as an impulsive lie. If only it had been more of a premeditated scheme, Joyce might not have backed herself into a corner.

  11. Slartibeast Button, BIA

    I want Joyce to channel Walky’s “Reginald, Duke of Thingly” strategy.

    1. Keulen

      She could call herself Regina, Duchess of Thingley

    2. Bagge

      THE GODDAM DING-DONG BANDIT IS IMMUNE TO CRITICISM!

  12. Kensou

    This too is character growth, Joyce. Now let’s see if you can save this friendship or not.

  13. DarkoNeko

    Do iiiiiiit

  14. Kyrik Michalowski

    I think your brother will be happy for you as long as you are happy Jacob, which you seem to be happy with Raidah, unless I am forgetting something.

    1. JohnInCA

      Just because the way the narrative follows characters, we almost never see them alone together. So it’s hard to tell.

      1. thejeff

        Which isn’t a reason for us to decide he’s not, as many here seem to have done.

  15. a/snow/mous/e

    Apologize, Joyce!
    Apolojoyce?
    Apollo-Joyce?

    1. Slartibeast Button, BIA

      Now I picture a giant Joyce in a wreath and toga, like that Star Trek episode…

    2. King Daniel

      The Apollo–Joyce Test Project.

      1. a/snow/mous/e

        Hah! Apollo-Joyuz, perfect

      2. StClair

        requires a special adapter module for docking.

  16. Slartibeast Button, BIA

    Cleanest resolution: Joyce leaves, Jacob makes some excuse about her having a panic attack or something. Next week Jacob phones Harrison to say he broke up with Joyce and met this great girl Raidah…

    That’s the “Smartening Of Age” plot.

    1. Uly

      Actual solution: They argue about this so long, Harrison hears it.

      1. Nono

        Actual solution: Harrison already knows everything, because he’s a super smart cookie.

        1. Jade

          That would actually be really refreshing, having someone who can see through the BS and use that power for good *cough*not Mike*cough*

          He’s a lawyer that helped get rid of anti-transgender laws, so I imagine he is both a very smart and a very sweet cookie 😀

    2. Keulen

      Since it’s the “Smarting of Age” plot, it’s probably not gonna happen.

    3. Eve

      I don’t know if making Jacob lie more to his brother is so clean. Honestly it may just be better to admit now that some frankly embarrassing choices were made, eat that consequence now on the assumption that his brother is pretty chill and may find this weird but won’t make like, a federal case over it. It’s not like he’ll scream at Joyce he’ll just..probably not want to hang out with her for the visit that isn’t that long anyway.

  17. Reltzik

    Actually, Joyce, it’s a pretty easy mistake to make. Pretty much EVERYTHING about your situation falls under the “going to quickly backfire” heading, so it’s going to be kinda hard to identify specific items as standout examples.

    1. Clif

      Which is funny because … actually, I’m not sure it is funny.

      1. darkgloomie

        It’s funny because you’ve been conditioned by years of tv comedies to think it’s funny.

  18. Synnerman

    Yeah, my spidey sense is tingling. I think Harrison is Ross’ lawyer.

    1. King Daniel

      Considering Harrison’s very public work advocating to help trans people (which Ross would absolutely despise), I…uh, highly doubt this.

      1. Kamino Neko

        Also, that would be the action of a civil lawyer, not a criminal lawyer.

    2. Synnerman

      Yay! I missed the part about Harrison working to help transfolk. Never mind my paranoia.

  19. Reltzik

    …. also, am I the only one having trouble clicking the Post Comment button because of a banner ad hovering over 80% of it and obscuring all the links at the bottom of the page?

    1. Slartibeast Button, BIA

      No, you are not.

    2. Delicious Taffy

      Nah, I’ve got the same. Also a gigantic 300×700-lookin’ wall ad that sticks, covers half the strip, and seems to move wherever I click. Definitely gotta get hold of Hiveworks on this one.

    3. Clif

      I have to move down past the comment block and then scroll back up to get the ad far enough out of the way to type anything. I assume this is a tablet/phone thing and wouldn’t be as much of a problem on a PC.

      1. Kamino Neko

        Nope, it is just as bad on desktop.

        It didn’t used to be so bad…now attempting to close the ad just makes the ad itself go away, but there’s still a banner, it just doesn’t have an ad in it.

    4. Needfuldoer

      I generally get small banners on the bottom of the page lately, but the “update your Flash Player” redirects slipped in again.

    5. ktbear

      I generally leave such things up to my adblocker…

      1. ninja_jesus

        Of which you generally shouldn’t reveal because it’s a dick thing to do to a webcomic artist.

      2. Reltzik

        I generally leave ad blocker off unless I’m having a lot of problems with ads (obscuring content or doing hostile redirects or stuff level problem, or maybe blasting loud audio without warning, or so on) or I’m supporting the site I’m visiting through other means. Which, ah, I can’t really afford to do.

        1. Miri

          I don’t think I have an ad blocker on unless Chrome for mobile comes with one inbuilt and enabled as default; I have a small discrete banner ad for some casino site at the bottom of the page moving down out of my way, but rarely have problems with annoyingly intrusive/persistently in the way ads – am I just lucky?

        2. Clif

          I think so.

  20. Shane Wegner

    Eh just do it, mercy kill this already.

  21. Norah

    Do it, Jacob. He’ll be puzzled as to why you felt the need to do that, but he’ll understand. Or actually, Joyce needs to be the one to tell Harrison, because she lied first.

  22. abysswatcher1993

    You asked for this, Joyce! This is your karmic punishment for messing with the romantic lives of others.

  23. Adam Black

    This plot is the closest Joyce has from Roomies Joyce ‘s motivation

  24. WayfaringStranger

    Between this alt-text and “very wool,” I get the feeling that Willis is in the middle of watching/rewatching 30 rock.

  25. SUGauthor

    You’re being gross Joyce, this interaction has lowered my opinion of you a good deal.

  26. TemporalShrew

    I mean, if nothing else, this strip is making it clear just how little Joyce has actually *thought* about what was happening this entire time. Particularly given the fact that she’s been in a straight-up panic half the time.

    But she dug her own grave, so…

  27. StClair

    My brilliant scheme!

  28. Cerberus

    The one where Joyce learns life isn’t a romantic comedy.

    1. Bagge

      …the one where Joyce SHOULD learn that life isn’t a romantic comedy.

      And I still maintain the belief that Jacob WILL continue the charade and she WILL still get to be his kinda-sorta girlfriend before the shit hits the fan and she thus WILL be proven right in her beliefs that, yes, her life can actually work as a romantic comedy if she just wants it enough.

      1. fire_daws

        Huh, you seem to be in the same exasperated boat that I’m in.

      2. Nono

        What reason does Jacob actually have at this point to continue the charade other than to please Harrison? His opinion of Joyce is low right now.

        Even if they keep this up til Harrison leaves, he can just ‘dump’ Joyce right after.

        1. Bagge

          If he keeps it up he gets to pretend that pretty, cute, sweet, brave, wonderful Joyce who, when she worried that her world was small he helped notice a larger one, filled with more answers, more possibilities; for whom where Jacob is is a place she wants to be; afraid maybe, but not alone; is his girlfriend…. and if he keeps it up enough she might BE his girlfriend.

  29. BenRG

    I don’t know, Joyce, why are you asking us that?

  30. BenRG

    Message to Site Admin:
    The ad at the bottom of the page now partially blocks the ‘post comment’ button and cannot be moved or removed.

    1. BBCC

      You need to report it to Hiveworks. They’ll zap it.

  31. Icalasari

    I was wondering how this would turn out

    Starting to think Malaya and Mary somehow comment on the scenes they appear in the middle of with their art class

  32. Danielle

    …….joyce…….

  33. TheFlamingonator

    There is no way he’ll believe she’s a theatre major practising improv? Right?

  34. fire_daws

    Oh, NOW she feels bad because what Jacob might do will make her look like an utter fraud. Of course. Everything. Is. About. You.

    1. Madock345

      I don’t think that’s what’s happening. Jacob’s line is “He’ll still be proud of me if…”

      Joyce is realizing that this will look bad for Jacob when before she was *only* thinking that she would look like a fraud.

      1. thejeff

        Joyce is realizing that by her own argument Harrison will still be proud of him even if he denounces her, so thus he’s got no reason not to.

        1. a snow mouse

          Yeah, that’s my interpretation as well…

  35. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

    Raidah mocked Dina based on the perception that she was mentally-challenged.

    https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/challenged/

    Jacob ought to swap her out so quickly for Joyce that we see blur lines.

    That said, my prediction is that eventually Joe and Joyce will end up together–after a disastrous first date, and many false starts and regressions, their growth as people will bring them back to each other.

    1. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

      Also, Jacob and Raidah’s relationship is about a month old and involves a college freshman–thus, completely meaningless.

    2. JBento

      No, she did not. Raidah, in fact, told her friends to cut it out. TWICE.

      You know who was shitty to Dina based on what she looked like when they had far more information to go on? Basically everyone who was at Joyce’s party, including Joyce.

      1. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

        Saying, “Oh my God, this girl is mentally-challenged, isn’t she?” and proceeding to speak very slowly to Dina for the benefit of her friends and to embarrass Sarah is absolutely mocking. Who cares whether she uses “retarded” or not? Joyce and others have questioned Dina’s age, poked fun at her social ineptitude, and argued against her science, sure–but no one other than Raidah has accused Dina, to her face no less, of being mentally-challenged.

        1. JBento

          No, no it is not, unless you want to redefine what mocking IS.

          This: “poked fun at her social ineptitude”, this is mocking.

        2. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          Oookay, then. Don’t think I’m the one doing the redefining here.

          The next time you do something awkward, think about how you’d feel if someone shook their head and asked “How old are you?” vs. “Oh, sweetie, you must have special needs. I’m. Going. To. Wait. With. You. Until. Your. Helper. Comes. Back. Nod. If. Understand.”

          But if you want to root for the heel, be my guest. You and Barney from “How I Met Your Mother” will be able to enjoy movies together.

        3. JBento

          Don’t take my word for it: look at Dina’s reactions to each of those events.

          Raidah: Well, that was not nice.

          Joyce’s Party: Fuck the lot of you!

        4. thejeff

          The difference may be largely that she knew the people at Joyce’s party and expected better of them.

        5. Liquid Len

          This. And I think over the time of the comic Dina has become more aware of how different she is from the others and how others perceive her. She’s said as much on occasion. And it’s this that prompts the stronger reaction at Joyce’s party.

        6. Doopyboop

          Also Dina spied on Raidah for Sarah directly due to her actions and outright said ‘I do not like her’ which for Dina, says a lot.

        7. Sam

          Raidah did not mock her, but she did absolutely talk down to Dina as if Dina was incapable of making her own decisions about people, which was ableist and it was definitely rude to talk about Dina’s mental capabilities right in front of her face.

        8. JBento

          I’m not arguing that Raidah wasn’t a rude dumbass to Dina, I’m arguing that wasn’t mocking.

        9. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          I don’t think “ableist” and “rude” cover it here. Immediately presuming someone is mentally-challenged and voicing that out loud so your friends can have a larf scores an 8/10 on the young person’s comeuppance scale, just under “Doesn’t Take No for An Answer Guy” and “John Travolta from ‘Carrie.'”

        10. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          Also, not really interested in semantics or sussing out what flavor of asshole it takes to belittle someone in public for their perceived handicap.

        11. Sam

          She didn’t say it so her friends could have a laugh. Her point wasn’t to make fun of Dina. No one is saying Raidah was nice here, but there is a difference between Raidah being a bongo to try to actually be cruel to Dina herself and Raidah being a bongo thinking she was being nice to Dina by warning her about Sarah thinking (incorrectly) that she could not recognise someone that was not nice on her own.

          I say it is rude because it wasn’t intended to be offensive (even though it definitely was) and Dina herself did not strongly react to it at the time (she did point out it was condescending, but didn’t take it as an attempt to actually belittle her, because it wasn’t). It was a lot of things: inconsiderate, rude, offensive, demeaning, condescending, ignorant, presumptious based on very little knowledge of Dina. But that still does not mean that Raidah was saying it with purposeful maliciousness to bully/belittle/harass Dina because of it – even if she was definitely malicious in what she said about Sarah to Dina.

          There is still a recognisable difference between someone doing horrible things to be horrible (which it was still intended to be towards Sarah, that is undeniable), and someone doing horrible things while thinking they were being nice/helping someone (which is more what she was doing to Dina).

          The point being that no, Raidah was not perfectly nice, but she wasn’t being like Malaya or Mary or Mike being malicious with the intention of being malicious towards Dina. She was more being awful like someone grabbing hold of a disabled person’s wheelchair to wheel them to their destination without asking if they needed help. It’s not a nice experience but it isn’t done out of a desire to hurt you. I still agree that it was pretty mean and I don’t like it, but I don’t see it as Raidah *trying* to be *actively* awful to Dina even though it still was awful and pretty spectacularly so at that.

  36. JBento

    You didn’t realise this would backfire because you’ve been utterly coddled by everyone giving you a pass for your every shitty move, Joyce. Someone needs to give you the Carthage treatment.

    1. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

      You want someone to burn Joyce down and sow the ground she was standing on with salt? Seems a bit extreme for meddling in a mean girl’s month-long college relationship.

      1. JBento

        First, we have no evidence of Raidah ever being a “mean girl” except when it comes to her relationship with Sarah.

        Second, meddling in other people’s relationships unbidden, regardless of how long those relationships have been going on and at what point they started, is a trash course of action.

        Third, Dorothy has already (finally) tried the “gentle calling out” method, with the lovely results here on display. Clearly, the only way Joyce is going to learn to not be trash is if someone burns any extant relationship to the ground and salts the earth, yes. Turns out people who do shitty things and get away with it don’t actually stop doing shitty things, who knew?

        1. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          Ah, always fun to hear from Lawful Neutral land, where tradition and normalcy are paramount and every offense is punishable by death.

        2. JBento

          I *DO* like the tradition and normalcy of respecting other people’s romantic decisions, yes. Funny how that works.

        3. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          Indeed! I expect unorthodox relationships are fairly rare in Mechanus!

          But can anything truly be funny on a plane devoid of chaos?

        4. JBento

          Lol, “unorthodox relationships”, as if this was me suggesting Joyce was being shitty for suggesting that she, Jacob, and Raidah engaged in a poly relationship, instead of what it is, which is Joyce being shitty for deliberately disrespecting Jacob’s choice of whom he chooses to engage in a romantic relationship with.

          Do you use that strawman to scare away vrocks or do you just pull it out for failing at internet arguments?

        5. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          I’ve been accused of a strawman argument! On the Internet! Quick, someone find a reference Hitler to maintain stable output!

          Your point of view might seem a little more reasonable, and I might be inclined to make fun of you less, if you hadn’t kicked off things off by comparing a light-hearted college drama to the massacre of an ancient city. Advocating a scorched earth policy against a minor offenses didn’t need my help to seem ridiculous. I was just curious to see if you would back away from an absurd statement.

        6. Yumi

          It was hyperbole. This exchange is just so much.

        7. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          @Yumi

          I wish people wouldn’t use phrases like “so much” in lieu of more descriptive language, but, yeah, it’s pretty dumb.

        8. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          To be more clear, I did not think anyone literally wanted Joyce burned alive, and no, references to Carthage are no longer particularly offensive.

          But I did think the statement, and its follow-up, revealed a way of thinking that was arch, judgmental, and overly quick to punish–not to mention oddly misguided in its appraisal of the characters. But it’s funnier to express that through DnD references.

          At the end of the day, we’re all just dweebs with way too much time on our hands posting garbage that has zero impact on what we’re consuming. Embrace the stupidity that is Internet discussion.

        9. Yumi

          Stupid can be fun, but this came off more jerk-ish.

        10. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          That’s a shame, but, to each their own interpretation, I suppose. And here I thought I was being the more easygoing one.

          Also, language gaffe on my part. I used “arch” when I should have used “rigid.” Whoops.

        11. Deadjolras

          @Elsington:

          Yikes, dude. This was in no way “easygoing” or “fun”.

        12. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          @Deadjolras

          Eh. Everything’s relative, I guess.

          Comments here, in general, have seemed pretty puritanical regarding the idea of allowing Jacob to follow his heart, or even, heaven forbid, starting a relationship based on an affair–even an emotional one. Joyce may not be acting within the dictates of socially-accepted norms, but, if both she and Jacob consent to a relationship, treating his very shallow bond with Raidah as a sacred vow is damaging to all involved.

          The sort of conformative, knee-jerk thinking that would automatically heap blame on Joyce ticks me off–so, yes, while it was my intention to inject some humor into my retorts, some real contempt was bound to seep through. Not that she doesn’t have a good deal of growing to do–that’s why she’s 18 (see my post above about her ending up with Joe).

          Also, “yikes” is a lazy word people only use because social media has taught us to condense our thoughts into easy-to-digest tablets. Just saying.

        13. thejeff

          I don’t see anything puritanical or ever very opposed to “allowing Jacob to follow his heart”. Of course there’s been little indication he actually intends to pursue anything with Joyce, despite having some obvious interest in her.
          He’s been criticized for pretending Joyce is his girlfriend, which seems reasonable to me, since he actually does have one.

          If Jacob had decided at some earlier time that he wanted to break up with Raidah and pursue a relationship with Joyce (or casual sex with Sarah, or pretty much anything else) I doubt there would have been much complaint.

          Joyce gets blame because she was deliberately attempting to break up a relationship, which many of us see as not cool – even if it doesn’t involve “sacred vows”.
          Having been involved in college relationships back in the day, I can testify that though they may sometimes be short, they can also be intense and painful. Some things from those days still haunt me today.

        14. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          @thejeff

          What a nicely written post. Very rational and even-handed. I fully concede that my characterization of the comment section as a whole may have been generalized–I’ve been skimming it over the past week or so, but I know you’re a much more frequent poster than I am, and are thus probably better informed.

          I do think Raidah’s preying on Jacob’s insecurity and her all-around mean-spiritedness outweigh Joyce’s transgressions, as a relationship built on negativity ought not to last–and Jacob has only just begun to get a better picture of who Raidah truly is. The way I see it, Joyce isn’t so much attempting to break Jacob and Raidah up so much as force the issue in order to get a clear “yes” or “no” from a conflicted Jacob, which is her right. Naturally, it’s also Jacob’s right to end their friendship and reaffirm his feelings for Raidah. The white lie to Harrison is just comedic table dressing.

          It’s a messy situation, and everyone is a little at fault. Ultimately, I suspect it will drive Jacob away from both Raidah and Joyce and, perhaps, after a time, to Sarah. Joyce will come to terms with her own sordid part in things, and maybe heal with a more self-reflective Joe. And Raidah will fall backwards into the mud, while a pig sits on her head and a band strikes up “Here Comes the Bride.”

          In all seriousness, I respect that you had tough times romantically in college, and I’m sorry to hear it.

        15. thejeff

          There were certainly good times too, it’s just that it’s easy to write off that early heartbreak from a position of mature wisdom and forget how much it hurts.

          I agree about Raidah, but that’s her and Jacob’s business, not Joyce’s, especially since Joyce knows nothing about it.

          Joyce has explicitly talked about breaking them up – first for Sarah and then for herself. For at least a couple of years of real time. She’s not trying to force an answer from a conflicted Jacob, but to create the conflict in the first place. Now, that might be closer to what she’s trying to do here, but that’s only because she stumbled into confessing her feelings.

          Raidah’s playing her mean girl role and Jacob’s mostly being an oblivious idiot, but Joyce is the one who created the situation. And Sarah, for pushing her into it for her own feud with Raidah.

        16. JBento

          (also, I’m a Bitopia boy, minus the gnomishness – thanks for playing)

        17. Lord Elsington Hallstingdingdingworth

          I did assume your plane, so that one’s on me.

        18. Sam

          We have seen Raidah talk down to Dina and treat her as if she is incapable of making her own decisions. Her point was to be cruel to Sarah, but that was still a mean thing to do to Dina.

          We have also seen Raidah take potshots at Joyce and undermining her in front of Jacob and with her friends for her food sensitivities and desire to be a teacher, not for anything worth actually judging someone for. Joyce has actual bad traits she could be judged for. Raidah is instead ableist by implying having specific food preferences in arrangement is immature and elitist by looking down on Joyce for wanting to work with kids instead of being a lawyer like her.

          Then there is the fact we have seen Raidah semi-egging on Jacob’s insecurities rather than helping relax him and reassuring him. Plus: she is hiding from Jacob her feelings of jealousy about Joyce. When he has specified to her face that he has had an issue with jealous girlfriends before. Hiding something you know is of concern to them isn’t nice or kind. This is the reason I actually want Jacob to break up with her for because I feel like this is a major breach in Jacob’s trust in her by not communicating this to him.

          Raidah has definitely been mean to other people besides Sarah. Not to the same extent as she has been to Sarah, and she isn’t wrong to have an unfavourable opinion of Joyce now, but she’s still not someone who is really nice-nice. She’s the kind of person who turns vicious when she no longer likes you and holds a grudge as if you razed her house to the ground.

          And while it is totally fair for her to dislike and judge Joyce, the parts she hones in on just. Make Raidah look like a bad person. Joyce’s eating habits and career goals are not the problem. Her lack of boundaries, warped beliefs on love and relationships and lack of respect for Jacob’s autonomy to decide for himself are actual problematic aspects of Joyce she should be taking issue with.

          Like, Raidah definitely has enough good in her to call out her friends for being worse than her. She is chill enough to let Jacob hang out with her worst enemy. And she has encouraged him to study. She’s not irredeemably evil or uncaring. But she definitely can be, and is at times, mean to people, sometimes intentionally, sometimes perhaps not fully intentionally.

          I do absolutely agree that Joyce deserves consequences for this though because yeah, don’t mess with someone else’s relationship even if you dislike them no matter how long it is and even if it was super awkward, Joyce should have tried to talk her way out of this at an earlier point rather than letting Jacob continue it.

        19. Deadjolras

          Jeepers, dude.

        20. Deadjolras

          Sorry, this was meant for Elsington. Kinda loses its effect when it’s all the way down here, doesn’t it?

  37. Booker

    *rubs neck from the whiplash of being back on this plotline*
    Ah! Right. Where were we now?

  38. Rabisch

    Joyce, run. NOW!

  39. Pocky

    just rip off the band-aid Joyce.

  40. Nep

    I think Joyce and Jacob are cute, and Raidah is seriously not the best, but I don’t want Joyce and Jacob to end up dating bc she srsly needs to learn boundaries of acceptable behavior. None of which apply to her behavior toward Jacob.

  41. Lily

    Joyce and Jacob would be a great pairing and I would love to see it someday (although I prefer Joe and Joyce), but honestly Joyce needs to find the emotional maturity she didn’t get with her upbringing before that happens. Jacob and Raidah isn’t great though; Raidah isn’t a terrible person but she’s definitely not a healthy relationship for Jacob- he needs a chance to loosen up a bit with his brother and stuff, and Raidah is using that insecurity of his and furthering it. I doubt that this arc will end with Jacob and Joyce together, but now that Jacob has a better understanding of how his brother feels about him, I think he’s going to have a chance to reevaluate his relationship with Raidah. Raidah will probably continue to take advantage of his feelings about his brother, and Jacob will finally see how unhealthy that is. Joyce, meanwhile, will be able to stew in how she hasn’t been taking relationships seriously.

    Ultimately, I think this arc is less about characters getting together or breaking up as much as it is about Jacob and Joyce reevaluating how they’ve felt about relationships: Jacob has been pursuing relationships in the name of his brother rather than what he wants, and Joyce has been pursuing relationships for what she wants according to how she thinks things should work. They’re kind of opposites.

  42. Eve

    God I can’t say this Joyce stuff is unexpected, I read roomies, she’s always had tendencies like this. I’d just wished she’d left them behind in that other universe.

  43. JBento

    Best of luck to US LGBTQ+ folks in the current SCOTUS case.

  44. Steelbright

    The solution to this problem is clearly to fake break-up with each other right now as soon as Harrison comes back

    1. Ohmsford

      It’s beginning to look like the break-up won’t be fake. I’m thinking Jacob will probably write Joyce off for a while

    2. thejeff

      Yeah, just tell Harrison “She found out about my real girlfriend.”

      That’ll work.

  45. Lys

    Dumbing of Age volume 10: W-wow, how did I not realize how quickly that would backfire.

  46. Dracke

    Isnt his girlfriend the one making his insecurities worse?
    She made a mistake, Fd up; but havent hurt anyone; she already explained herself, if he is negative about it is up to him…he can forgive her or not.
    But the fact he hasn’t even told his own brother his girlfriend name also says a lot about him.

  47. Rikunda

    Eh the dude needs to be single. He is currently using his girlfriend to follow in his brother’s step. That is just not right!

    1. Bagge

      Good news, then, because there is a very good chance he will be single when the dust settles.

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