498

Pixely
Posted on March 23, 2017 by David M Willis

Dumbing of Age Vol. 5: Hey, Guess What, I'm a Lesbian!
Dumbing of Age Vol. 5: Hey, Guess What, I'm a Lesbian!
  Written by: David Willis Cover by: David Willis Art by: David Willis Price: $19.99 Joyce was homeschooled, and these initial few weeks of college have been her first foray into public education. Joyce worries college is changing her, but when her childhood friend Becky shows up at the door, Joyce begins to learn exactly how much. (Also, Dina runs around in an adorable triceratops hoodie.) Buy now on comiXology!
also i've submitted my book 6 kickstarter for review, so that should be startingĀ up soon, get ready

498 thoughts on “Pixely”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    “DON’T”

    “what?”

    “Play Devil’s Advocate!”

    “why not?”

    “It’s the STUPIDEST episode! Nothing but all the trolling tropes! All the same bullshit people pull on TWITTER! Devil’s Advocate was written to ‘parody’ fake fans who use D&MM as ironic intellectual pretentionism, but it’s catering to the lowest common denominator!!”

    “*psst* that’s why it’s the BEST EPISODE”

    “nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo”

    1. MatthewTheLucky

      *slow clap*

    2. Kris

      “Play Devil’s Advocate is good but it’s no Taxing Taxonomy.”

      1. Pablo360

        Two words.

        Wedding. Crashers.

        1. Pablo360

          *smashers

          fuck I messed up, I must now commit dishonorable seppuku

          It’s like honorable seppuku but instead of a sword you just read webcomics

          So basically what I was doing before

        2. Bagge

          Well, you seem to have it covered. Carry on!

        3. StClair

          And then there’s honorable sudoku, which is math puzzles.

        4. The Chosen One

          Actually a logic puzzle, the numbers are meaningless and don’t interact so you can play it with any symbols

        5. Rukduk

          Fun fact, a form of Sudoku is actually used as the hacking mini-game in Mass Effect Andromeda. Another Fun Fact, that’s why I didn’t comment on the comic earlier like I usually do, I just got off a thirteen hour binge of Mocha and Andromeda, interrupted solely by brief bathroom breaks. A final Fun Fact, it is much, much better than all the complainers are saying. I literally don’t know why they are complaining at this point, the game’s great. I mean, it’s no Game of the Year like Horizon Zero Dawn is (or at least should be, if Breath of the Wild doesn’t steal that) but it’s definitely a B+ or A- game in my book.

        6. Reltzik

          Look. OBVIOUSLY the best episode is the DexterAndMonkeyMashup YouTube re-edit that combines all the best scenes from all the best canon episodes complete with redub to updates all the jokes to be topical to the modern da-

          *spontaneously lynched by millions of offended fans who somehow know where he lives*

        7. Remmington Steele

          It’s Dial M for Monkey Master Mashup Murfs Manhattan?

    3. Jerach

      Now this is the level of quality I come to the comments section hoping for.

      1. Bagge

        Sadly, not the level of quality you got from Dexter and Monkey Master season 3.

        1. Pablo360

          I have no idea what you’re talking about.

        2. Pablo360

          noooooooooooooooooo

        3. MatthewTheLucky

          You have failed us.

  2. Doctor_Who

    Becky’s expression in the final panel definitely makes the Top 5 Best DoA Fa(aaaa)ces.

    1. NoHeart6265

      someone needs to make it a gravatar

  3. AnvilPro

    So we’re all agreed green-haired lady and beige-eyed dude are the best characters, yes?

    1. UltraKyrie

      Now we just gotta pressure willis into giving them names in the tags

      1. Doctor_Who

        If enough of us get together, we can make them the stars of the next Patreon bonus strip.

        After that it’s only a matter of time before the Slipshine…

      2. Keulan

        I agree, these two characters definitely need names. Make it happen, Willis!

      3. Cholma

        I dub green hair as Jade, and the dude is obviously a Chad. Or Thad. Or Biff. Something obnoxious like that.

        1. Ana Chronistic

          I feel like this Tweet declares otherwise

        2. Delicious Taffy

          Let’s demonise him as quickly as possible.

        3. Bluewind

          How about Avery because she is flighty and Thomas because he doubts?

        4. Chris

          I say tan hoodie guy should be Dick!

        5. Bluewind

          Noooooooo! I know several Dicks. They have a good head on their shoulders šŸ˜‰

          Seriously though, why do I know so many guys named Dick? One even thought up several names for his future kids that were naughty but ended up with Dick Jr (aka Little Dick).

          As for brown hoodie guy, I resend my name Thomas as I like that name and submit the name Don which is short for Donald.

        6. OBBWG

          The hoodie guy is clearly “Tanner Braun”.

    2. Shiro

      You mean the guy saying rape accusations are a cry for attention? Try the best at being the WORST.

      1. Kris

        If you ask me they’re both pretty forgettable. They don’t even have a horrible parent responsible for the root of an acute psychological or social scar. Come back when you’re life’s more of an emotional tower of Jenga nerds!

        1. Kryss LaBryn

          I have to admit, building an emotional tower out of Jenga nerds does sound pretty fun.

        2. Chris

          Just pull me out first, so I suffer less emotion.

      2. Delicious Taffy

        To be fair to this fictional character, he may be basing his statement on the fact that things posted online can be made up for petty reasons. Until Sal told him it was legit, he couldn’t be blamed for thinking it might have been one of Ryan’s friends playing a sick prank on him.

        1. Fart Captor

          Oh he can definitely be blamed.

          If he’d said something more to the effect of “how do we know this story is legit?”, that would be reasonable.

          But what he said was “usually that stuff is made up”, which is inaccurate and displays a really shitty bias on his part.

        2. Delicious Taffy

          That’s true, the way you phrase things does carry a lot of weight in these situations. I suppose I hadn’t considered that angle.

        3. Maveric1984

          Ok, I had a bit of a problem with demonozing TanShirt out of hand, to me it seemed like he was saying “innocent until proven guilty”

          But you found exactly what made him a douche, he didn’t say “we don’t know the story” he said “they’re just trying to get attention”. I completely agree with the assessment that he is a douchecanoe

        4. Lone Wolf

          His response to Sal also comes across as fairly dismissive. After all, why should he take the word of someone who claims to have been there over his own preconceived notions?

        5. Rukduk

          Especially when said person is a) female and b) of color. As a white guy who means well and has white guilt hard, I will acknowledge how we (white guys) can be dismissively sexist and or racist unconsciously when we’re trying our best not to be. I mean at least I’m primarily descended from two of the more historically persecuted white ethnic groups (Irish and Jewish), so I tend to catch myself from making those mistakes to often, but the rest is French (of the colonial variety) aka one of the most oppressive white ethnic groups, so I also have a lot to apologize for (including the fact that at least two of my ancestors bear some responsibility for the current mess in the Middle East, as they played a part in creating modern Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon). The sins of the fathers come to bite the children in the ass.

        6. Shiro

          If someone wanted to smear someone else, they’d choose a charge that doesn’t routinely get ignored, mocked, and underplayed.

        7. Delicious Taffy

          Unless they didn’t really want the smearing to be taken seriously. Granted, the particular subject is absolutely a shitty thing to use as fodder for a joke, no arguments there, and anyone who did use it as such would be an absolute scumbag.

        8. Shiro

          I’m sorry, but this hypothetical is SUCH a stretch.

        9. Delicious Taffy

          What, a shitty person using something they know won’t be taken seriously as a way to accuse their buddy of something horrible without him actually getting into serious trouble for it? It’s happened to me before, so I may have a distorted view of what’s a reasonable thing to assume.

        10. Shiro

          Like, to expand on that: even dudebros who think rape is hilaaaaaaaarious wouldn’t choose it for prank fodder on the off chance that this is the one in a million that gets taken seriously. Something like “this guy was caught streaking the quad” or something else embarrassing but non-threatening would be way more realistic.

        11. thejeff

          Even more, those dudebros who think rape is hilarious also tend to be the ones who think false rape accusations are rampant and always taken seriously. They wouldn’t use it as a prank because they’re the ones who would expect it to be life-ruining.

        12. TheAnonymousGuy

          Rape accusations are taken super seriously boarding on the extreme in some cases that’s why when (the admitingly small) false accusation come out people get so upset, it makes real victims less credible. there was a girl naked Nikki Yovino who admitted to lying about two guys raping her because she thought it’d get the attention of her crush. Two peoples lives were nearly ruined and victims of real rape become less credible, all because people like this want fuck with a system ment to help peole for their own personal gain.

        13. Fart Captor

          Right! We should focus more on preventing the thing that rarely happens instead of the one that happens all the time!

        14. TheAnonymousGuy

          when did I say that? I was simply stating that things like that have an affect on a real crimes legitimacy in a an already skeptical justice system

        15. Shiro

          But why did you feel the need to say it, is the question.

        16. Fart Captor

          If that’s what you were trying to say, you failed. Simply bringing up a case of someone making a false accusation in response to someone talking about how often legitimate ones are blown off? If you had a point beyond “but if people get less skeptical that would be terrible!”, then you should have made it explicitly.

          Discussions of sensitive subjects like this are not a good time to be vague or subtle about what your point is, or to not consider the how context around what you’re saying affects how it’s likely to sound.

        17. trlkly

          It’s not easy to figure out who you are replying to. But the implication of your post is that you are defending what the guy in the comic said with your single anecdote.

          The guy in the comic is wrong. These things are not usually made up. The highest number for fake rape complaints is 20%, and more realistic estimates go to closer to 5%.

          There are fake accusations for a lot of crimes, but people don’t go around saying that they must all be fake. There is no reason for “fake rape accusations” to make people distrustful of allegations.

          It’s just because of our culture that prefers to believe that rape is not as common as it actually is. And rapists use this to cast doubt on all their victims.

          If rape was handled properly, false accusations would be pointless. They’d know that they’d have to go to court and prove it.

        18. Random832

          “The highest number for fake rape complaints is 20%, and more realistic estimates go to closer to 5%. ” – okay, so what’s the basis for the “more likely to be hit by a meteor” factoid that’s floating around?

          And any statistics that exist here are mostly about criminal complaints (or police report, or at least some level of “actually involving the justice system). Any way you measure it, someone is almost certainly much more likely to get in serious trouble for making a false criminal complaint than to face any consequence at all for sharing a false facebook post, so it stands to reason people would feel a little less restrained in doing so.

        19. Fart Captor

          @Random832:

          If we’re not talking criminal complaints, then we’re also not talking legal consequences.

        20. Random832

          When did I talk about legal consequences? I thought we were talking about the basis for this guy’s belief about how likely a facebook post was to be true. If false accusations are more likely to be posted to facebook than pursued through the justice system, and/or if true accusations are more likely to be pursued through the justice system than posted to facebook, that means the percentage of false vs true accusations on facebook is not going to have much connection to the percentage that the official statistics are about.

        21. Fart Captor

          …and since we’re not talking legal consequences, even if the likelihood of a false accusation goes up, the potential negative consequences go down, so while yes, it’s reasonable not to immediately assume it’s true, it’s still ridiculous to act like the consequences of believing it and being wrong are dire.

        22. n0z3k1ll3r

          I know of at least two (vulnerable) people who’ve been cut off from support networks by abusers falsely claiming they abused or raped them. One of them tried to take her own life shortly afterwards.

          Even as a rape survivor, I find the left’s culture of aocially ostracising at best and outright aggressive doxxing at worst anyone accused of rape to be disgusting. It ruins lives.

        23. Verdande

          @Shiro: Probably felt the need to say it because it’s (somewhat indirectly) related to the subject of the comic.

        24. Random832

          But that’s less likely than knowing two people who have been hit by meteors.

        25. Jon Rich

          “ā€¦and since weā€™re not talking legal consequences, even if the likelihood of a false accusation goes up, the potential negative consequences go down, so while yes, itā€™s reasonable not to immediately assume itā€™s true, itā€™s still ridiculous to act like the consequences of believing it and being wrong are dire.”

          Even without legal action, the accusation itself can get someone kicked out of college, or, as n0z3k1ll3r pointed out, socially ostracizing, doxxing, and so on.
          The consequences of believing it and getting it wrong ARE dire.

          What I think people miss is that dismissing false accusations as something that happens so rarely—be it 5%, or less than 1%—by stating that without acknowledging that those matter, it carries the implication that you’re saying, “too bad, sucks for you if you get falsely accused, but you’re just collateral damage—the immediate assumption of your guilt and the consequences of that are just a necessary part of the Greater Good. You just drew the short straw.” That, I think, is at the heart of the fixation on false rape accusations. It comes with the same injustice that so many rape victims face, the assumption that they’re lying. And there’s the possibility of prison time at the end of that path, and a likelihood of the destruction of their prospects at the very start.

          It’s why I agree with n0z3k1ll3’s statement that “I find the leftā€™s culture of socially ostracizing at best and outright aggressive doxxing at worst anyone accused of rape to be disgusting. It ruins lives.”

          Ideally, we’d be able to hold off on judgement, for either party. Offer support to the victim without bringing sanctions down on the accused until a proper investigation is carried out. Basically, assuming that the rape happened, but that the rapist’s identity is not certain. I’m not sure if it’s practicable, but if it is, I think that would be the best of many poor options, the lesser of [x number] of evils.

        26. Cerberus

          Oh joy more tan hoodies.

          Look folks here’s the thing. Every time the topic of rape occurs there is a flood of folks who only want to focus on false rape accusations and that over time ends feeling a lot like the folks who invade every conversation about unarmed black men being shot by cops to rant about “black on black” violence or the folks who invade every conversation about Trump and Russia to whine about Hillary’s emails and so forth…

          And it’s a bit fucked.

          Especially so cause y’all have a very skewed idea of what the actual consequences are for being falsely accused of sexual assault. Like, a lot of you are bringing up hypotheticals. Oh this admin says she’s tough on this so probably throws out everyone accused, oh theoretically someone’s friend circle and so on…

          Well, here’s what makes it fucked. Like 1) none of you stop to realize that all the things you’re scared of happening to people whose lives are “ruined” by false rape accusations are things that regulalrly happen to rape survivors. I know personally know off the top of my head 5 friends who had to drop out of college for a time due to being raped. 1 sadly killed herself. Friends circles lost?

          Hoo boy it would be easier to count the folks who didn’t lose at least one community after being assaulted. And the ones who didn’t often ended up having to abandon things or spaces they love because their rapist goes there (I used to love this one cafe but one of my sexual assaulters (not the rapist) practically lives there so…).

          This isn’t for false accusers. This is for accusers period.

          2) This topic is getting way more focus on a comic strip about what we know is a real rape attempt about experiences of being raped and trying to speak put about it. What the fuck makes you think it’s an appropriate forum for false rape accusation to literally be the dominant topic of discussion.

          3) There’s actual survivors on these threads. One’s who didn’t report because they knew it would end poorly, who lost support networks after an assault, who lost fanily for it, who struggle constantly with PTSD and flashbacks. So fucking give the tone-deaf “ruined lives” monomaniacal focus a rest. Cause every survivor has heard your shit a thousand times and it’s never not fucked in this kind of space with this kind of context.

          So all of you, give it a fucking rest with this fucking bullshit.

        27. Random832

          “This topic is getting way more focus on a comic strip about what we know is a real rape attempt”

          A) Today’s strip is, in part, about someone who doesn’t know that choosing not to share a picture on facebook. If this were happening on any other day’s strip’s comments you would have a point. B) The comments have a tree structure so that people can talk about different things without talking over each other.

        28. Shiro

          Okay but I’m not going to obsess over the tiny fraction of a percent of accusations that turn out to be false when the overwhelming number of TRUE victims are ignored, blamed, and humiliated, and most rapists will never see the inside of a jail.

        29. Elitist Oars

          Except that it’s not a “tiny fraction of a percent”. How in the world did you determine that the fraction of false accusations is so low that it can be treated as non-existent?

        30. Lin

          Because reputable numbers say 5%. EXCEPT, here’s how that breaks down. That’s of actual legal complaints (the vast majority of rapes are never reported) and it’s not that they’re “false,” it’s that there is insufficient evidence. So most rapes are never legally reported. Of those that are reported, most aren’t investigated. Of those that are investigated (already a small % of a small %), 5% have insufficient evidence to file a charge. How many of those with insufficient evidence are actually false? We don’t know, but I can tell you from actually being and talking to survivors, it’s a tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny percentage.

          Also, by obsessing over false charges, we continue to put the focus on how people who have been assaulted could be lying liars when, in fact, THIS DOESN’T HAPPEN HARDLY AT ALL.

        31. Cerberus

          It’s propaganda. Focus the story on this tiny proportion of often theoretical victims so people assume that’s super common.

          It’s like desistence being brought up in every discussion of trans kids. The idea that one cis kid could theoretically accidentally transition due to a very tiny number of cases is used to openly deny treatment and support to trans kids and make people believe that the most common result of trans kids is cis adults when the reality couldn’t be farther from that.

        32. Knayt

          The smearing is irrelevant – he specifically said it was made up for attention. You know, the anonymously released thing, where there’s no mechanism for the attention to actually get back to the person who released it on account of it being anonymous. It’s not just wrong, it’s obviously wrong in the face of incredibly unsubtle counter evidence; it’s the sort of wrong that happens when people have a preconceived notion that they’re sure about and are thus unwilling to think for five seconds to check.

        33. Sunny

          You know, for some people it can be more important that the thing they put on the internet gets attention, and they’re completely fine with not getting any themselves.
          Obviously that’s not the case in this comic.
          Just saying that if you’re going to argue the attention angle, you’ll have a hard time.

        34. Elitist Oars

          There do exist people who make false rape accusations to smear people. You are effectively arguing that nobody ever makes a false accusation of rape. That’s just wrong.

        35. Lin

          I genuinely hope that nobody you know decides to tell you that they’ve been assaulted and that you don’t say this shit out loud to people who consider you trustworthy. Because you do know rape survivors (everyone does) and enough people call us liars by implication. Your loved ones don’t need it from you.

        36. Cerberus

          Yeah. This shit is vile and cruel and transparent as fuck. If you say this and you think you don’t know any rape survivors, it’s because the rape survivors you do know don’t trust you to be awful.

        37. Elitist Oars

          A decade or so back a friend of mine was raped, and I was involved in informing the social circle of the rapist in question what kind of person they were dealing with.

          Knowing her, I trusted and still completely trust my friend was telling the complete truth about her rape.

          This somehow doesn’t make it impossible for OTHER people to be liars. Is that so hard to understand?

        38. thejeff

          Different problem: One person trusted you and you believed her. That doesn’t mean there might not be other survivors who don’t and are pushed farther away from doing so every time you talk about how big a problem false accusations are.

        39. Fart Captor

          The problem isn’t that this guy didn’t accept the story as true. It’s with his knee-jerk “it must be bullshit” response.

          He’s not rationally asking “can we trust this information?”, he’s outright dismissing that it’s even worth entertaining the possibility that it’s true

          That is what makes him a shitty person.

        40. Random832

          The problem is he’s a straw man. As the comments here demonstrate, what he said is not how all people who are concerned about the possibility of false accusations actually talk. Is it really so wrong to have a conversation about what he represents rather than what specific words he used?

        41. Random832

          I mean, no-one here (at least no-one who hasn’t been moderated swiftly enough that I haven’t seen them) has said anything similar to “that stuff is usually made up for attention”, and it hasn’t spared them any vitriol.

        42. Cerberus

          I’m terribly sorry, do you think I have one iota of patience left for your “well, actually” bullshit? Fuck off.

          “Oh, but you see it is you who don’t want to debate false rape accusations who are the actual rude ones, look upon our nested threads and our lack of curse words. Clearly this makes us not MRA trash”

        43. Fart Captor

          @Random832
          What Cerberus said.

          Dudebro isn’t a straw man. People react that way to rape allegations in real life, too. Sometimes even the goddamn police react that way to them.

        44. Fart Captor

          @Random832: yeah, people tend to misunderstand you when you use a word to mean something other than its common usage.

          How the fuck is dudebro a clearly a stand in for people not like him? If you hear a story of rape or abuse and your knee-jerk reaction is “oh those stories are usually made of for attention”, then you suck.

          Dudebro quite explicitly not making a non-garbage argument that they don’t know where the story came from or have any way to verify it, but you and others keep trying to act like he said something very different from the crap that actually came out of his mouth.

          Imagine if he’d said something like “Whoa, you know you usually can’t trust black people. They’re out to get you!”. A bunch of people call that racist and awful, and then someone replies to those comments saying “well actually, he’s got a point. 15% of black people DO lie and commit crimes!”

          Because that is what this looks like to other people. It looks like you are going out of your way to put a more palatable spin on the dismissive, victim-blaming crap that guy said.

        45. Cerberus

          What Fart Captor said.

          And fuck I’ve had worse than what Dudebro said, said to my face. Including that I deserved what happened to me. So yeah, not even remotely a strawman.

    3. Darastrix

      I like green-haired lady’s Magical Love Gentlemen t-shirt

      1. smashman42

        *Willis tags Jacques*

        “You’re it”

    4. Znayx

      Green-haired lady has Becky’s face, minus freckles, with her old hair style, except green, and bigger lips. Recycling character models, Willis?

      1. Opus the Poet

        There’s a limit on what you can do within a particular cartoon style without repeating yourself.

      2. StClair

        “Check the hairstyle.”

  4. Dave Van Domelen

    At least Walky’s retort wasn’t “I’m goin’ commando, nuthin’ t’get in a twist.”

    1. Doctor_Who

      It’s how he prevents taint-zits now.

    2. Passchendaele

      Given his inane definitions of masculinity, it would not surprise me if he took pride in that.

    3. John

      Well, we know he’s not, because he’s already been running around with his pants off once this morning.

    4. Reltzik

      I try not to think about what’s under there.

      (under where?)

    5. nothri

      ……..
      ……..
      ……..
      ……..”Do your balls hang low, do they wobble to and fro, can you tie them in a knot, can you tie them in a bow….”

  5. DailyBrad

    Becky gets Joyce very well, and seems to have read Walky pretty well, too. Makes sense, the two of them got along famously right away.

    1. Passchendaele

      Fortunately, Walky is straightforward enough that there’s not much of him to get. šŸ˜›

      1. John

        Nah, he has depths. He goes to great lengths to hide them.

  6. Kris

    The eternal battle continues!

  7. Ivy

    HNNGH

  8. timemonkey

    Yeah, people don’t want to believe the horrible thing is real so they brush it off as fake.

    1. Reltzik

      More likely they’ve got a distorted view of the frequency of rapes and attempted rapes vs the frequency of false accusations and they’re taking the 50/50 happy-median assumption and the “try to sit back and reason it out from my armchair” approach.

      1. trlkly

        Said distorted view is at least partly because they don’t want to believe the horrible thing is real. They don’t want to believe that it happens as often as they do.

        And it’s also in part because this helps rapists discredit their victims.

        And also because sexism is still a problem in our society and people want to believe women less. They want to believe that women who have sex are not good people.

        It’s better than before, but it doesn’t take much, especially combined with those other factors.

        1. Reltzik

          Huh.

          Okay, I agree that sexism is part of society and that can often be a factor.

          And I agree that this sort of response does help rapists discredit their victims.

          But what’s the basis for saying it’s denial of something they know rather than ignorance?

          In my case, years back when I thought that sort of way, it was ignorance. Yes, I knew rape happened, and I knew that sometimes accusations didn’t play out well, but I had no notion of the prevalence. Was I an outlier, or a typical case?

          Seriously, are there stats on the motivations for these attitudes? Because that’s important to pin down. It suggests different strategies for fixing the problem.

        2. Chris Phoenix

          I’ve been noticing for several days that I like your posts. I really like this one. I see you taking in new information/arguments, thinking about them enough to _partially_ change your mind (harder and more valuable than 100% rejection or acceptance), and then applying thought and real-world information toward solving a difficult and horrible problem.

        3. Gwen

          In my interviews with assault non-victims, some of the women who believe assault is common are also skeptical of most specific reports they hear. People are contradictory, and our views are based on both our own experience and a deeply sexist culture. The two factors together make for some… interesting combinations.

        4. Red

          I have met so, so many of those. “I hate sexual assault and want to prevent it and keep abusers out of our space, but every specific person I hear from doesn’t fit my Perfect Victim narrative and should be ashamed of themselves for reporting”

    2. Chris

      Like global warming

      1. Reltzik

        Climategate! Climategate!

        …..

        Huh. When the joke consists of quoting the other side verbatim, it stops being funny.

  9. BBCC

    Awww, yay, Sal! Looking out for Joyce and stamping ‘false accusation’ assholes into the dirt.

    That said, I’m seriously getting concerned how many red flags she’s showing for sexual assault and rape and how they work.

    1. Gwen

      Hopefully, it’s out of having achieved alpha-bongo status like Billie. Though I guess hoping it’s characters we *don’t* know rather than ones we do wouldn’t make it much better.

      1. BBCC

        I’m thinking she likely was, but she has a lot of personal red flags that make me suspect that, unlike Billie, she also had to learn these things the hard way.

  10. Ivy

    Magical love gentleman!!!

  11. Shiro

    Never pass up a chance to piss Walky off.

    Especially because it’ll distract the audience while I sneak off to punch Tan Hoodie Dude in his face.

    1. BBCC

      Take me with you.

    2. Fart Captor

      Gonna poop in that dude’s cheerios, just try and stop me

  12. Lauralot

    Tan Hoodie Dude can go sit in a ditch.

  13. Squirrely

    Walky your shoe is untied.

    1. Keulan

      I don’t think Walky has ever actually tied his shoes in this comic.

      1. Delicious Taffy

        Although he did tie Danny’s shoes, that one time.

      2. Chris

        He has mad skills not to trip

    2. Passchendaele

      He’s lazy. šŸ˜›

      (and I think I remember Willis saying he always draws him like that?)

  14. Passchendaele

    ā€œWedding Crashers.ā€

    ā€œI’ll crash YOUR wedding.ā€

    ā€œYeah, you’ll be the waitor, and you’ll only serve cheese and crackers.ā€

    *sssss* ā€œResponsibility and bad foodā€ *flees*

    1. Passchendaele

      The worst part is that it’s actually “Wedding Smashes,” and several people who later commented made the same mistake. The villain in me is hoping that I inspired everyone else to do so in my own incompetence. šŸ˜›

  15. Emperor Daniel

    Brown-Haired Guy is most certainly not a Magical Love Gentleman, it would seem.

    1. Delicious Taffy

      He prefers the slightly-less-popular spinoff, Scientific Love Scoundrel.

      1. Bagge

        ….I would be interested in this title.

      2. Dellaran

        To Aru Kagaku no Dudebro.

        1. Jhon

          +1, because I have no idea what you just said.

        2. Jhon

          “A Certain Scientific (Dudebro)”?
          -1 for me — clearly I am not Batman…

  16. shadowcell

    no no the tan hoodie guy doesn’t say outright that he’s gonna play devil’s advocate, he argues and argues and when it’s clear he’s lost only then does he say “well i was just playing devil’s advocate jeez you feminazis are so defensive”

    1. BBCC

      At which point someone tells him ‘Nobody gave a shit what the Devil, thought, we asked what YOU thought, jackass’.

      And then boot to the head.

    2. Emperor Daniel

      “She was just trying to study!”
      “Maybe she only thinks he’s abusive!”
      “I’m sure he’s only worried about his daughter!”

      The list goes on…

      1. BBCC

        “But they’re the same skin tone!!!”

        Feh.

      2. Kris

        Poo, my joke got ninja’d. Well played.

  17. Positron

    “allow me to play devil’s advocate”

    OK, now I feel really bad about what I said a few pages back, well, slightly worse than after some of the replies šŸ™

  18. Viktoria

    Fun fact, abusers have used “This person has been kidnapped, please spread this post and contact X if you have any information” as a way to track down their estranged kids. ALWAYS take social media stuff with a grain of salt.

    1. BBCC

      …..I wish I were surprised.

      This isn’t a kidnapped person post though, this is a ‘hey, yo, heads up, this guy tried to rape a girl, avoid him’ post.

    2. Znayx

      Fun fact: Not all “fun” facts are as advertised šŸ™

    3. Random832

      Yeah but this is different because we the omniscient audience know it’s legit.

      1. Charles RB

        We the omniscient audience know it’s legit, but it’s sure weak that the ONLY character saying “I wouldn’t share this completely unsourced accusation of a stranger online” is using a bastardly reason.

      2. 3-I

        Okay, will you chowderheads fuckin’ clam it with the “We are omniscient, the CHARACTERS are behaving reasonably since they don’t know everything we know” stuff?

        You don’t have to have stood next to a rapist while he was raping in order to recognize that saying “people make this up for attention” is insulting, diminishing, infantilizing, and ultimately morally indefensible.

        You don’t have to know that Ruth has an abusive past and see her freak out on the phone with her grandfather to know that someone talking to her that way, grabbing her arm that way, INSISTING she keep her job when she has said multiple times she doesn’t want to do it, is a sign of abuse.

        We are not judging people for not having the information. We are judging them for IGNORING the information by sticking their fingers in their ears and going “la la la.” Like you’re doing.

    4. Rian

      Tumblr is terrible for this stuff, even though I try to avoid ‘call-out accounts’ every couple weeks I see random people being called pedophiles/rapists, often for no reason at all (as in ‘this 12 year old is a pedo because they drew a picture of 14 year olds kissing’, ‘he’s a trans-man and they’re all rapists’, etc.)

      You hit a point were it seems like a bad idea to reblog any post that doesn’t have evidence and sources included, so a post with just a blurry picture and a brief warning from a masked & untraceable woman, with no witnesses or video proof being put forward does seem sketchy enough to want to avoid it.

      But obviously as readers we know it’s all true and important information that needs to be spread, so it’s easy to get angry at the guy for not knowing better.

  19. JessWitt

    Oh Sousuke…

    1. Tomas

      Your nose is bleeding.

  20. Stephen Bierce

    “Designated Critter”. That packed everything good about the whole series in one reel.

    1. Emperor Daniel

      I dunno, I’m kind of a big fan of the “The Monkeystery” two-parter myself.

      1. Leorale

        Oh heck no, I saw it in the original run, and waiting a whole week to resolve that cliffhanger was torture!

  21. John

    I mean, what if the dudebro just wanted to study?

    1. Kris

      He did just want to stud- I mean he was just concerned about why his sister was so angr- I mean he just loved his daughte- I mean he thinks he helping his granddaught- I mean technically we haven’t SEEN him rape any- I mean …….

      1. Koms

        I think I missed something. Who wanted to study what?

        1. Liliet

          Mary

        2. Koms

          Thank you! May the internetz be with you.

  22. Tacos

    Well I see that tan hoodie guy is a douche.

    1. Delicious Taffy

      Or, at the very least, very jaded about social media posts.

      1. Gwen

        Why not both?

  23. DarkoNeko

    I would tell Becky and Walky to get a room, but…
    well, all they’d do is watch more episodes.

  24. Ross

    Okay, no, but honestly, “I’m not tiptoeing around you, but I need you as an ally in some harmless lighthearted (and, yeah, conveniently distracting) banter over somewhere else” is absolutely a tactic that has worked for me in a pinch before. Becky does not always say the right thing, and her line here is mostly a joke, but in this case, “come talk to (safe people) about (safe topic) where you’re comfortable and on solid ground” is far from the worst way to handle this, particularly given that they’re headed to class at the moment.

    1. Cerberus

      She’s really good at the whole comforting and supporting Joyce thing.

      1. Delicious Taffy

        Not so good at the whole noticing how not-gay her best friend is thing, though.

        1. Cerberus

          Hey, there were signs (or yearning hope, one of the two)!

        2. Delicious Taffy

          True, and even Joyce admits that Becky had influenced her behavior in ways that would make it easier to make that mistake.

        3. Rukduk

          In the words of Zoidberg (only because I know the the meme): “Why not both?” While I do know that Joyce is primarily based on Willis’s experiences and thus to an extent Autobiographical, I also still highly suspect that Joyce herself is bi but with a strong preference for men (so I think a 1.5 or 2 on the Kinsey scale, if that’s still considered a viable measurement system, I am unsure at this moment and have also been up for 23 hours straight and hope I’m not offending anyone) or perhaps biromantic and just hasn’t realized it yet. At the same time, I feel like that would hurt Becky a bit to find out that Joyce is in fact attracted to some women and that Becky isn’t in that category. At the same time given Becky and Dina’s relationship, I feel like such a discovery would only really create a couple awkward conversations at first and then dissappear quickly. Or just that Joyce has unconsciously viewed Becky for a sister for so long that she wasn’t attracted to Becky because the idea already felt “incestuous” to Joyce, even before her and Jocelyne’s unofficial adoption of Becky. Of course this just made me think of a question: is it plausible that if Hank and Carol do end up splitting because of their different views, Hank would officially adopt Becky into the family legal paperwork wise? Sorry as stated earlier I’ve been up way too long without sleep and only caffeine and I can feel a crash coming so my mind is racing at a mile a minute. I feel like goddamn supercomputer!

        4. Commodore Jeep-Eep

          Honestly, I think she called that Joyce likes girls correctly, it’s just that Joyce hasn’t acknowledged it yet – incoming drama between her and Dina when Joyce gets it.

        5. Fart Captor

          Nah. Becky may have been carrying a torch for Joyce for a long time, but I think she’s clearly WAY more into Dina now. The mere possibility of sharing a bed with Dina causes her brain to overheat, but even though sharing one with Joyce was emotionally hard on her, there never seemed to be any risk of Joyce being swept out the door by a flood of lady syrup.

          Dina might need a snorkel just as a precaution.

    2. Leorale

      Yes, good tactic. The less Joyce hasta ruminate on dudebro’s response, the better.
      Also, Wedding Crashers was solid gold. Those dancing shrimp!

      1. Leorale

        Dangit autocorrect and/or sleepybrain, smashers. Wedding Smashers. My phone is a filthy Taxing Taxonomy fan.

      2. Jhon

        Wait, what?
        Eating live shrimp?

  25. Tomas

    That girl is obviously a Zentradi spy. Look at her hair.

    1. Reltzik

      If you can spot Zentradi spies by their hair, then they’re not very good spies.

      1. MM

        Ah, but failing to hide the hair would be far too obvious a mistake, so you would never suspect a true spy of making it. Thus, the perfect disguise.

        1. Reltzik

          Nah, I’d just assume they were a bad spy instead of a super-good one. And because that would be an obvious assumption for me to make, a super-good spy would know I might make it, and therefore wouldn’t be a super-good spy if they didn’t account for the possibility of me making it.

        2. Jhon

          And so a super-good spy would not assume that you might fail to assume that and so…

          My brain hurts.

      2. Abel Undercity

        Earth’s greatest defense against the Zentradi is that they continue to struggle adapting to our Micronian ways.

        1. StClair

          I thought it was our idol singers.

      3. DarkoNeko

        They’re weirdly named, too.

    2. StClair

      Fun fact: back in the comment thread on this comic, I noted the similarity of “Walkyverse Malaya fought (Ultra) Carla, with a knife, and now they’re dating” to the courtship of Max and Miriya Sterling (aka Jiinas).

  26. Wraithy2773

    ………….okay.

    Look.

    We are in a special situation here. We know, for certain, that the douchebag being accused of attempted rape is guilty. But for the moment, take a look at it from the perspective of random unnamed in-comic character.

    They have a photo of a person accused of sexual assault. No evidence in their hands supporting the accusation. No proof beyond the accusation. The accuser (supposedly) didn’t present themselves as the victim.

    Was it started by a frat boy wanting to humiliate a nerd? Was it a prank getting out of hand? Is it even a picture of the right person?

    The great shame of how the US handles sexual assault, particularly in a college setting, is that because the police and universities so regularly (and intentionally) fuck it up, vigilante justice starts seeming okay. But this is still vigilante justice.

    It’s easy to hate the guy in this comic because he says “usually that stuff is just made up for attention”. And yeah, I’m sure there’s a fuckton of college bros that would say that shit.

    But if he said something more neutral like “Is there any evidence that it happened?”, would it be as easy to dismiss caution?

    1. Delicious Taffy

      Basically this.

    2. Kole

      you do realize that you are more likely to get hit by a meteor than be falsely accused of rape right

      1. Delicious Taffy

        True, but that doesn’t mean some asshole can’t just make up a post about one of his buddies in retaliation for some slight or other. I’ve had it happen, so there’s a chance I’d be in Beige Guy’s shoes, in a similar situation. Granted, I’d immediately look further into it, but Sal was quick enough on the draw that he didn’t need to.

        1. BBCC

          “Possible” and “likely” are two different things. The odds of a fake rape accusation are so low, that yeah, the proper response is ‘okay, this is probably true, yeah, but don’t share if you’re not sure.’

        2. Wraithy2773

          It’s a macro vs micro situation.

          On a macro level, yeah, odds are that I’m not going to be hit by an asteroid, one in a million shot of that.

          On a micro level, if that does happen, I’m still fucking dead, no matter what the odds are.

          To put it another way, if you had a button, and 99/100 times pressing the button would make things a bit better, and 1/100 times pressing the button would ruin someone’s life… would you press it?

        3. BBCC

          Ruin someone’s life?

          Bullshit. Even if people DID take the accusation seriously AND he somehow got arrested, AND tried AND convicted, he’s STILL probably not going to fucking jail. If he does, it will not be for any significant length of time. AND we have mechanisms for getting innocent people out of jail when it is discovered. And he’ll probably have no tougher a time finding a job when he gets out (see: Brock Turner). Society’s great at taking the side of the rapist.

          And considering the considerably greater odds that I’d be ‘making things better’?

          Hell yes, I’d fucking press it.

        4. Wraithy2773

          The rationale behind “ruin someone’s life” is that the #1 target for politicians is fucking over “registered sex offenders”.

          My exact phrasing may be weak. But the basis is just… yeah, if it’s taken seriously it can utterly wreck where you thought your life was going to go. Just imagine if anyone that did a background check on you (such as for a job or place to rent) saw that on your record?

          Sure, benefits are always paid off to the rich and/or famous, see the embarrassing stain that is our current president. But average joe nobody?

          I don’t blame anyone that does do the re-tweet. Society fucked shit up first. But I hope you understand if I find the whole thing situation fucking awful.

        5. BBCC

          The whole situation is awful, but you’re still over exaggerating the impact, imo.

          Joe Schmoe rapists do not go to jail for long either. They have still found jobs. Again, see Brock Turner.

          And how many politicians actually DO so? Again, most rapists don’t even go to jail. You might not get where you thought you were going, but your life will not be ruined. Society’s practically allergic to providing actual CONSEQUENCES for rapists.

        6. Cerberus

          Being arrested, tried, and convicted of rape hasn’t ruined anyone’s life half as much as being raped frequently does.

          Like, fuck, the sentences are short, there’s huge amounts of people who can’t wait to rehabilitate you or assume you were falsely accused even if there’s video evidence of you doing it, and plenty of industries that won’t hesitate to bring you on when they would balk to hire an open rape survivor.

          Oh, there’s the mythology that it ruins lives. Because we want an excuse to disbelieve survivors and assuming their attackers are good ol’ boys being done wrong. But fuck, even legendary child raping scum bags like Steven Tyler, Jimmy Page, Woody Allen, and Roman Polanski still get huge amounts of work and plaudits and defenders whereas Mia Farrow is pretty much shut out of the industry simply for believing her daughter.

          And it also ignores the PTSD. Rape isn’t just one and done, it lingers. And maybe it goes away for some but for others… heh, well, let’s just say, if I close my eyes I’m going to be right back in that room and feel him on me.

          So yeah, miss me with that fucking “but no you guys, rape accusations so totally ruin people’s lives”.

          Also, sex offender registry, pfft. They want to throw trans people on that for peeing, so I’m sorry, but I’m not going to shed many tears for the actual rapists who pretty much have to give a full confession while videotaping the rape to be actually tried and convicted.

        7. Krys Brynhildr

          Well, I mean, are we talking White Joe Schmoe rapists from presumably good Christian families who are reasonably well off?

          Or people of non-Caucasian descent who are picked out by the State to serve as a way for the State to show how Hard they are on Rape by selecting an example its easy to justify throwing in jail for more years than a murder charge would get?

          Cause I mean, there’s a bit of a difference how those sort of cases get treated from what I’ve seen personally. Well, I mean, the first set often times never making it to court even if there’s an actual person trying to take it to court or making accusations for one.

        8. Cerberus

          Lynchings are another matter entirely and tend to be rape accusations made by a community or a state wanting to blame “somebody” for the crime rather than a woman making a specific accusation about a specific person*.

          And white rapist defenders who use the ugly history of lynching to justify their “skepticism” fill me with a special kind of contempt.

          *Yes, no matter the social class of the perpetrator. I got to sit ringside of my friend being harassed by a cop for over an hour about how they “probably consented” to being raped by a homeless person of color, because she was making a specific accusation rather than something they could use to justify picking up some random drifter.

        9. BBCC

          Oh, MoC and poor folks are infinitely more likely to go to jail, especially if they attacked a white lady, but they’re more likely to go to jail for all crimes. Case in point – drugs. Drug users are mostly white, but folks busted for possession and given jail time tend to be PoC.

          The rate of conviction for rapists is still seriously low.

        10. Krys Brynhildr

          Apparently responses can only go so deep, but after reading the following comments to mine, I felt that I should probably clarify that I personally feel that its important to believe the people who come forth about stuff like this, despite personally having seen the lynching style approach done in my State in regards to PoC in order to make the State look good for “being No Tolerance About Rape” even though they were the only ones actually pushing for the case to be taken to court.

          Seriously, if someone says they were raped by someone, and are speaking out about it, it’s worth at least listening to and taking into consideration, even if its just a “I’m not actually sure if this is true, but this image has been going around of someone who supposedly is up to no good, so keep an eye out”.

        11. Shiro

          It’s not 1/100 though. Not even close.

        12. Delicious Taffy

          That’s a fair point. At the very least an “I guess it couldn’t hurt” is probably in order.

        13. BBCC

          Hell, I’d accept ‘If you’re uncomfortable or unsure, don’t share it. You can always share it later when you get more information.’

          This is not that. This is 10 different kinds of douchery and I’m SO glad Sal’s there to stomp on it. She’s been pretty great at handling this whole situation.

        14. thejeff

          Delicious Taffy: Just to be clear, you had one of your buddies make up a rape accusation against you, in retaliation for some slight?
          Or spread some other false story?

          I’ve seen more minor things along those line, but never anything like rape. Seems to me that it’s exactly what you wouldn’t want for such a “prank” – almost certainly not going to be taken seriously at all, but with consequences far too serious if it is.

        15. Delicious Taffy

          That’s correct, I did have that happen to me. The guy wasn’t exactly a rational thinker, though, so what seems obvious to you or I was completely beyond his comprehension.

      2. Elitist Oars

        No, the meteor thing is just fucking stupid, imagined by people who didn’t give a crap about whether the numbers they were coming up with were true or false.

        Please don’t ever repeat the “meteor thing”, it’s so completely wrong.

        1. Elitist Oars

          There’s a full explanation at http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/02/17/lies-damned-lies-and-social-media-part-5-of-āˆž/ for why the “fewer odds than a meteor” thing is such a blasted lie.

          “Did you spot the sleight of hand in those calculations? He calculated the odds of a man who has sex 99 times per year for 24 years being accused of rape per sex act, and then declared this was the odds of being accused of rape in your lifetime. Then he went on to compare it to various other lifetime odds, like the lifetime odds of being raped, the lifetime odds of being struck by lightning, et cetera.

          This isnā€™t comparing apples to oranges. This isnā€™t even comparing apples to orangutans. This is comparing apples to the supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy.

          To highlight exactly how awful this is, suppose we wanted to trivialize rape itself through the same methodology. The average woman, as per the articleā€™s statistics, has a 1/4 chance of getting raped during her lifetime, which means a 1/9500 or so chance of getting raped per sex act if she has sex 99 times per year from ages 15-39. And looking at the same list of statistically unlikely things provided on that article, thatā€™s less than the odds of dying in a plane crash (1/7032). So you crow ā€œTHE AVERAGE WOMAN IS LESS LIKELY TO GET RAPED THAN TO DIE IN A PLANE CRASH! HA HA WOMEN ARE SO DUMB TO EVER WORRY ABOUT RAPE!ā€. And now you have a Buzzfeed article.”

        2. Commodore Jeep-Eep

          That closet neoreactionary? Are you fucking serious?

        3. Cerberus

          It’s fucking vile, isn’t it? I have a longer response to this fucker in moderation, but that article literally makes me feel like I need a shower after reading it and it’s filled with so many false neutralities that I want to vomit.

          And I’m so done with fucking rape apologists bringing out this MRA-sympathetic trash to try and prove their point that false rape accusations are so bad you guys when even their most paranoid fever dreams don’t even hold a candle to the rate and severity of punishment for accurately reporting a real rape to your friend circle, much less the police, much less the rape itself.

          Just the reporting it to the people who should most have your back.

          I’m just so fucking done with this shit and its prevalence. And it’s why I snap like a turtle at every one of these, “but false rape accusations, you guys” arguments, because it inevitably descends into this sort of open denialism.

        4. Fart Captor

          Yeah I especially like how the author is all

          “this other article using inaccurate and unsourced statistics in manipulative fashion to support their arguments”
          *immediately proceeds to use anecdotal evidence to make their own point*

        5. Elitist Oars

          LOL “neoreactionary”. I actually consider Scott more progressive than David Willis or pretty much anyone else I know in the internet.

          But I think we may have a different definition for what it means to be “progressive”.

        6. Pablo360

          The only way Willis could be more progressive is if he started posting memes comparing Timon and Pumba to the lumpenproletariat.

          (That’s a reference to Arthur Chu’s Twitter feed, by the way)

        7. Commodore Jeep-Eep

          SSC is written by a stupid person’s idea of a genius.

        8. 3oranges

          I mean, the meteor thing is plainly incorrect; the number of people in all history confirmed to be hit by meteors is in single digits. The number of false accusations is bound to be higher because nearly anything even vaguely plausible is higher.

          That’s not the same as saying it’s a substantive problem, though. I understand why people quote the false statistic, it’s because this edge case risk is used to cover for a disastrously mainstream one.

          As regards that, I thought this thought experiment about what treating men guilty until proven innocent would do to society was interesting. Spoiler: it turns out even that’s probably not as horrible as how women get treated now.

        9. Random832

          Yes, it is a substantive problem. Someone (especially someone not familiar with the real number of people hit by meteors) could easily mistake it for an assertion that there is actual evidence for the rate of false accusation being lower than the real rate by many orders of magnitude. The fact that you’re calling it an edge case is an aspect of that. Merely being uncommon doesn’t make something an edge case. Being five percent or one percent or half a percent or whatever number it is today (and if that number applies to accusations pursued through the justice system, surely it’s higher for accusations made casually with no need to present evidence at all) is not sufficiently low to warrant the term edge case

          The fact that it’s impossible to talk about this at all without one side being told that there is absolutely no place in civilized society for discussion of the issue because everywhere all the time (except places that you can safely demonize someone for visiting) has to be “space” for not talking about it is also a problem.

        10. Random832

          Also I thought feminists hated Charles Clymer now, why still quote his made-up statistics?

        11. 3oranges

          Well, you can put the threshold for “edge case” wherever you want. I stand by the statement that it’s a less common problem always brought up to dismiss a more common and arguably more serious one. Did you stop with those two words, or go on to read the thought experiment I linked?

          Most of the things people claim are “impossible to talk about” are things that get talked about constantly. This comment section is choked with discussion about false rape accusations, and the people protesting that are saying “can we please not talk about that for once?”, almost as if it ended up in all previous conversations too.

          Somehow not talking about this thing that’s impossible to talk about just isn’t an option we allow people. Go figure.

        12. Random832

          I read the thought experiment. It chose parameters very convenient for its conclusions. For example, the average time served for rape is 5.4 years, and the average sentence is 9.8, not “2-3”, and any coherent set of principles that led to the legal regime in the thought experiment would almost certainly make those numbers higher. It makes no mention at all of prison rape even as it proposes that sending large numbers of young men who aren’t hardened criminals and are accused of sexual offenses to prison would not be a net injustice.

          > almost as if it ended up in all previous conversations too.

          Yes, I recognize that that is what people are claiming. I don’t think it’s actually true (no-one’s lying, it’s just that the times that something does happen stand out in people’s mind much more than the times that something doesn’t happen), and I also think that on the (less common) occasions where it actually does get brought up, it’s universally shouted down like this. There’s no place for an actual dialogue.

        13. thejeff

          Except of course that it’s not universally shouted down, even here on this board which we might expect to not be very sympathetic to such claims. In fact, it’s taken over the discussion here today. It also was quite prominent the last time Ryan and his rape attempt were in the spotlight – back when Amazi-Girl and Sal were after him at the rally.
          It’s very, very common in any discussion about how to handle the problem of rape in the justice system, whether that’s actually changing laws or working outside the law – like spreading warnings as in the comic.
          As others have said in this very discussion, making accusations (false or true) is actually more likely to have negative consequences than being accused.

        14. Fart Captor

          There’s plenty of room for an “actual dialogue”, for people willing to put in the effort to be respectful about a sensitive subject, and actually pay attention to the tone of their own arguments, and make sure they’re responding to the points people are intending to make, rather than being pedantic about stuff not actually relevant to the discussion.

          The fact that false rape accusations being more common than people being struck by meteors is not really significant here.

          Does it make Dudebro’s claim that “that stuff is usually made up” correct? No. It doesn’t.

          Are a sufficiently large percentage of accusations “made up” that Dudebro’s knee-jerk dismissal is at least kinda excusable? Still no.

          Is it a valid objection to the argument that we should always unquestioningly treat every rape accusation is true and act to penalize the accused? Sure, but thing is, nobody has made that argument.

          So, even if it wasn’t your intention, what has happened here is the way you’ve framed and presented your own arguments has led to the appearance that you are arguing on the side of “immediate, off-handed dismissal of rape accusations isn’t something dudes should have to feel bad about”

          And that’s entirely your own fault.

        15. Porto

          Yes, let’s exchange one dystopian horror for a slightly better one, what a BRILLIANT idea!

    3. Thevoiceoftreason

      That’s reality. This is a comic.

    4. Cerberus

      Well… given that reporting on sexual assaults is incredibly low due to how horribly survivors get treated, how most sexual assault victims tend to blame themselves when they get assaulted and don’t seek anything with regards to the people who rape them, how common fucks like tan hoodie guy are and how hostile they get when they encounter someone who claims sexual assault.

      And how much our society somehow believes that folks make up sexual assault accusations all the time, especially if the accuser is a woman or a nonbinary individual?

      Yeah, he’d still be a dick. Because these tend to pan out way more than they don’t, which is why nearly every case where they don’t ends up making the news. Because that’s a man bites dog story and feeds into this narrative that “bongoes always be lyin'”.

      Also, are you really devil’s advocating the devil’s advocate guy? This feels like a bizarre form of inception.

      1. Falcon

        Not believing a person out of hand when they say they were raped, that’s serious douche levels.

        However, not wanting to spread a photo that could easily be a cutthroat character assassination of an innocent person is a valid concern.

        That said, we know tan hoodie guy would likely not believe the rape victim either, because his answer shows he isn’t concerned about the well being of a possibly innocent person. He’s concerned with blaming the victim as an attention-seeker.

        1. Rukduk

          So in short, screw tan hoodie guy? Cause I can get behind that. One of my friends eventually committed suicide because they were raped. So I always take any and every accusation of rape I ever hear as true. Our sexist, patriarchal society has made it incredibly hard for women (and men) to admit to being raped due to the reaction and response they will inevitably receive. Meanwhile, rapists have been given the power and opportunity to commit the act by many of the same structures within our society. It’s why a lot of rapes go unreported, it’s why even fewer cases go to court, and why even fewer of those result in proper punishment of the guilty. I’m also in a bit of the minority on why I think the punishment is not proper; at this point, we cannot completely help the victim, but we can make sure that the perpetrator never hurts anyone else in such a way. I’m talking death sentence, life without chance of parole, or (if the rapist must eventual be set free for some reason) castration. We as a society are not harsh enough on those who commit sexual crimes, there are people who will receive worse sentences for non-violent drug-related crimes than some rapists will. And that’s not right. It’s not just.

        2. thejeff

          While I’m not really opposed to increasing the penalties in theory, I think the real problem is far more the difficulty of getting convictions or even of getting the system to take accusations seriously. Even a relatively light sentence works, if the chances of getting it are high.
          Raising the stakes to the death penalty or life or similar punishments without fixing society and the rest of the system would possibly actually lead to less convictions than now. Except for blacks and other minorities who are accused of attacking white women – with the racial bias in out justice system that’s likely to get even worse.

          Rape as crime is tricky, since nearly everyone agrees it’s a horrible crime and should be harshly punished and pretty much always has, in nearly every society. The trick has always lain in what’s been considered rape. And that’s still generally what we see with apologists today.

          Mind you, I’m generally opposed to how harsh our prison system is overall. Against the death penalty in general, definitely for serious reductions in penalties for drug crimes, even where I’m not just for legalization. It’s a damn hard call for me to support harsher penalties for anything.

      2. Wraithy2773

        I’m not devil’s advocating the devil’s advocate. Dude’s a douche because his mind went “She’s prolly making it up” right off the bad.

        My issue is mostly that… we’re in this fucked up situation, in societal terms.

        On one hand, we have our strive for overall justice, that it’s better that 10 guilty people be set free than 1 innocent person be convicted. That, plus the knowledge of how fucked up social media can be, should urge caution.

        And yet, because of the massive fucking weight of everything working against victims of sexual assault, we’re encouraged to take any accusations that are made as fact, no matter the evidence behind them.

        It is fucking evil and unfair. But it’s where we are.

        Douche-bro is an ass, based on where his mind went. My thought is, if you came across this situation, with no inside-knowledge, just a picture of a guy with a scar and an accusation… how confident would you be of it?

        1. BBCC

          Considering the overwhelming majority of rape accusations are true, probably I’d think ‘Yeah, this probably happened.’ Not sure if I’d share it (probably not on Facebook, because I have no idea what’s triggering for my friends and it doesn’t have filters for posts).

        2. Fart Captor

          Lack of confidence would be one thing. Dude just assumed not only that the accusation was false, but said most are. That’s bullshit.

          Do you realize what the worst (remotely likely) outcome of people taking the story seriously is? Women on campus being wary of white dudes with a facial scars. Hardly the end of the world even if we didn’t know the accusation was true.

        3. Cerberus

          But no, Fart Captor, that’s the worse discrimination. Some innocent scarface man might get laid slightly less than before and that’s infinitely worse than maybe protecting a few women from gaining years of PTSD symptoms and body flashbacks.

          Jesus, get your act together and focus on the real crimes!

        4. Wraithy2773

          …I’d argue that the worst case scenario (not for this specific situation, just for a similar situation as it appears to average rando on social media) is “accused person has ‘tried to rape a college student’ attached to them for the rest of their life”.

        5. BBCC

          Which will, most likely, lead to exactly no consequences.

        6. Cerberus

          No. No they don’t.

          Here, I’ll ask you a question and you’re not allowed to google anything. What were the names of the folks accused in the Duke rape case? It’s one of the most famous false accusations ever (though clearly something fucked up happened even if it wasn’t penetrative) and was in the news for months. What are their names?

          So yeah, no, we forget rapists and those accused of rape with the ease of a man drinking deeply of the River Lethe. No one is going to remember X the douche from college who raped some random chick unless you were closely involved in the life of the person they raped. Like, there were so many rapists on my college campus when I went there. The only ones I remember were the ones who raped my ex, because I spent the hours upon hours over years slowly helping her rebuild her mental everything from the damage those fucks did to her.

          But rape survivor? That shit clings on for life. Both the stigma and the PTSD. It gets easier to cope with, but for some, that shit never fully goes away.

          Like fuck, there are still fuckers harassing the Steubenville victim and she had to flee the city even though she did nothing wrong.

          And not all of us survivors get to grow old with our PTSD:
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Audrie_Pott

          In fact too many of us don’t. Cause that trauma can be really hard to live with when you’ve got folks bullying you for it.

          Fuck, the student at my school got raped on campus, on camera, by a guy who openly admitted it, even though he was too stupid to realize he had. He faced almost no consequences and the survivor has been openly harassed by half the student body, and half the administration for it and nearly ended their life in a suicide attempt because of that.

          But yes, the consequences fall so heavy and last so long for the fucking rapists. Fucking miss me with those goddamn alternative facts.

        7. Wraithy2773

          To answer your question? No, I can’t name anyone accused in the Duke Lacrosse rape case.

          It’s not simple recollection I’m worried about, though. It’s the background checks and simple google searches that come with… just about any major life change these days, including finding jobs or a room to rent.

          That said… yeah, seems like I’m somehow still placing too much faith in society. It’s… hard to believe that things are really that bad.

          I never meant to denigrate any aspect of your experience, Cerb. It’s… just this fucking situation, that conflict between “Innocent until proven guilty” and “Victims don’t report because it somehow manages to make things worse” turns this thing into a giant pile of “I need a fucking drink” :(.

        8. Cerberus

          Yeah, well, statistically a background check on me finding out I’m trans is way worse for my job prospects and housing than if a rape accusation or engaging in a campaign of racist harassment were to pop up. Hell, just me being a survivor popping up on my real name would be worse statistically for my job prospects than if I were accused of rape.

          So yeah, not overflowing with sympathy for them.

          But I appreciate the clarification nonetheless. Honestly, this is one of those issues that just makes me extra prickly.

        9. Wraithy2773

          *passes the rum to Cerberus*

          I think it’s an issue you’re fully entitled to be as prickly about as you want…

        10. Cerberus

          Thanks. I appreciate it.

        11. Rukduk

          @ Cerberus’s first comment: And that in and of itself is fucked up. The amount of victim blaming that goes on in our society is at a level I can describe as complete bullshit. It’s one of the things that makes me cynical of the society we live. Also *hugs for having to go through that bullshit*. I don’t drink, or I’d over you beverage instead.

        12. Random832

          > What were the names of the folks accused in the Duke rape case?

          I wouldn’t need to have remembered their names if I were interviewing one of them for a job. I’d just see it on their application, and type it into Google. And in the alternate universe where they were never cleared, their application goes into the trash.

        13. Zatar

          Really? We’re taking hypothetical alternate realities into account now?

        14. Cerberus

          You’re a liar. Statistically speaking, my resume is much more likely to end up in the trash for me being trans than “accused for rape” gets put in the trash. People keep making these claims but don’t back it up with data that shows that discrimination because it fucking doesn’t exist.

          And that’s painfully obvious in a world where a confessed serial rapist was heartily elected to be the leader of the free world.

          Oh, sure everyone says they care about this shit, but when shit hits the fan, people are always willing to see the best of rapists and overlook that or assume that they were the victim of a smear job even when they actually do get convicted.

          Like, fuck, the most famous college rapist in America right now, Brock Turner has a giant high paying job talking about rape on various college campuses.

          That’s how fucked the situation is.

          So yeah, no, it’s not some magical fantasy land where people see that someone accused someone else of raping them in college and all future employers screech the tires and go “we can never hire them, they must go to the streets”.

          And you fucking know that.

        15. Blal

          “Lack of confidence would be one thing. Dude just assumed not only that the accusation was false, but said most are. Thatā€™s bullshit.”

          I don’t think he’s saying most accusations are false, but that most accusations posted on social media with no supporting evidence by a new account created for the sole purpose of spreading said accusation are false

        16. Pablo360

          What the fuck kind of supporting evidence do you want? A DNA test? The only ā€˜evidenceā€™ that could possibly be given would be Joyce Brown’s testimony, and we’ve already discussed why that would be dangerous.

        17. Joe

          Literally anything more than a pixellated photo from an anonymous source?

      3. Grethelwvier

        Not to dismiss the horrific treatment of nb and women sexual assault survivors, but survivors who are men are just as often not believed due to the ideas that “men can’t be raped” because “men always want sex” and “men can’t be overpowered like that”.

        1. Delicious Taffy

          This is exactly why the male rape victims I know have never sought help for their situation.

        2. Grethelwvier

          Yeah. And the ridicule you get for finally spilling your everything out for other’s to see. I can’t say it’s worse for guys; that’s a double black diamond slope I don’t want to go down. But it is a very different beast. If women are considered “broken”, men are considered disgraced by victimhood. Any sentiments of “why didn’t you fight back” count double if you’re a man. You’re “cowardly“, and “weak“, and “barely a man at all” for “letting” it happen. And again, that’s not greater, or less than what women face, just… very different.

        3. Leorale

          Very true. Men are a very small fraction of people who have survived rape and sexual assault. If it happens to you and you’re a man, though, these statistics are not remotely comforting.

        4. Cerberus

          I agree 100%. I mean, I’m ace. Our male rape survivor numbers are terrifying. Largely because there’s a social idea that folks who are with men tend to get that their worth as a person and a partner is tied to their sexual attractiveness to their partner. So if their partner is not sexually attracted to them, then that needs to be “prodded” along through coercion or nonconsent.

          And yeah, the support for male rape victims is awful as there’s that whole twisted macho culture that punishes them extra hard for being “weak”.

          Honestly the whole twisted ass rape culture is awful for literally everyone but the serial rapists.

        5. Grethelwvier

          Don’t forget disturbingly ignorable to non-victims.

        6. Grethelwvier

          Also, you’re a trans woman, yes? Can I ask how not to describe to you? Because I know I don’t mind being described as medically female, especially when talking about my past, but I also know that such things are upsetting to others, and your reference to yourself leaves me in question as to where the “do not cross” line falls. Also, sorry, if I’m *already* failing to be respectful. I’m not entirely sure how to ask the boundaries of people I don’t know very well.

        7. Cerberus

          I’m willing to say I’m AMAB. I’m willing to say I was “raised as if I was male”. But I’m definitely one of the trans women who are firmly on the side of “I was never male.”

          But thanks a lot for asking before assuming. That means a lot to me! : D

        8. Grethelwvier

          Cool. I’ll remember that. I’m one of those “me and my physicality are two separate things” types. Like ticking “F” is fine, but social markers like “Ms.” kill me.

    5. Shiro

      …yes. It would.

    6. Tarmaniel

      It very much is about the tone. There’s a huge difference between, “Don’t spread around unfounded rumors” and, “she’s probably just doing it for attention.” The latter essentially says, “I can assume this is a plea for attention without any further information because the majority of rape accusations are just pleas for attention.” The former simply respects innocent until proven guilty and that it’s morally wrong to shit up someone’s reputation without proof.

      1. Random832

        I do not accept that it is about tone. Maybe in some alternate universe comment section we wouldn’t have “oh joy more tan hoodies” in response to someone sharing that they personally know two victims of false accusations, but that’s not this one.

    7. Fart Captor

      Yes, it IS easy to hate on him for it, and for the way he phrased it in particular, since it goes well past skepticism into knee-jerk dismissal.

      If he had actually said “Is there any evidence that it happened?”, I would be fine with that. But the attitude he’s demonstrating is part of why so many allegations aren’t taken seriously. His default assumption is that the accusation is false, with absolutely no knowledge of the situation. Not only does he dismiss it out of hand, he encourages others to do so.

      Does this necessarily mean he’s a horrible, pitiless monster? No. He might be a mostly OK guy apart from this crappy behavior he’s demonstrating. Although since the only thing we’ve seen of him is him being crappy, I’m quite content to assume he’s crappy.

    8. trlkly

      I am seeing it from his perspective. From his perspective, false rape accusations are rare, so the default assumption is that there is likely something to it. Doing it for attention is the LEAST likely situation.

      Not only are false accusations much less likely than actual rape, but the consequences are not as bad. At most, you have to move away to somewhere else and change your appearance a bit.

      Rape most likely gives you PTSD. It’s a disorder you can overcome, but never cure. And PTSD means going through panic attacks, which are exactly the thing that makes waterboarding torture.

      Plus, if there are false accusations, guess what happens to the person who made it? They get ostracized just as much as the non-rapist. So they have every reason to not do it unless it’s true.

      In short, if you receive something saying someone is a rapist, at most check and see if it’s a fake photo. After that, send it on. If you’re worried it may be fake, add a message.

      Don’t be a rape enabler.

      1. Cerberus

        My rape (and that’s not counting sexual assaults) occurred in 2008. I still have regular body flashbacks that require active focus not to slip back to reliving it.

        But hey, having people think poorly of you and refuse to date you for like a semester or two is totally worse. /s

        But yeah, the balance is so askew in terms of frequency and false positive/negative consequences, it’s stunning the level of reflexive dehumanization of victims is required to somehow think that those accused of rape are the real aggrieved we need to focus all our attention on trying to protect.

        Like, fuck, if any of these people knew, like knew in their gut intrinsically, how much it takes to make a public accusation and how infrequently it’s made up if it’s about a specific person rather than “some black guy”, they’d never sell this garbage again.

        But sadly for some people it’s easier to put themselves in the shoes of “what if I got accused of raping someone” than “what if I was raped and no one believed me because they wanted to be ‘skeptical’ and ‘fair'”.

        1. Anowan

          2008 ? I don’t even know what to say. I don’t speak enough english. Let me use the local meme :
          *appropriate gesture of compassion*

        2. Elitist Oars

          Society likes a comfortable lie, but you are going to the other comfortable lie concept that false rape accusations are much rarer than they really are and that they don’t have harmful consequences for the falsely accused.

          Again from http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/02/17/lies-damned-lies-and-social-media-part-5-of-āˆž/

          The guy writing the stuff below is in a relationship with a genderqueer person (Ozy) so I hope you don’t stereotype him as a typical “bro” or something

          “3% of men are falsely accused of rape. 15% of women are raped. If someone you know gets accused of rape, your prior still is very very high that they did it.

          I was extraordinarily lucky to find very strong evidence that my friend was innocent. I was extraordinarily lucky that both my co-workers had video feeds that could confirm their stories. If I hadnā€™t, I donā€™t know what I would have done. My two choices would have been to either accept the possibility that Iā€™m staying friends with a rapist, or to accept the possibility Iā€™m ostracizing someone for something he didnā€™t do.

          And someone is going to expect me to conclude by recommending what the correct thing to do in these cases is, but I have no idea. Probably there is no solution that isnā€™t horrible. If there is, itā€™s way above my pay grade. Ask Ozy. Zeā€™s the one with the Gender Studies degree.

          All I can suggest is that you not flee from the magnitude of the decision with comfortable lies.

          One of those comfortable lies is to tell yourself that all women are lying sluts so the accusation can be safely ignored.

          But another comfortable lie is that false rape accusations are eleven times rarer than getting hit by comets.”

        3. Cerberus

          Yeah, well, here’s the reality about false rape accusations.

          One, the rate of them is lower than false accusations of any other crime, largely because the standard of proof is often so much higher for issues of sexual assault and domestic violence thanks to high prevalence of police officers believing rape myths.

          Two, the types of “false rape accusations” tend to follow the anatomy of most other false accusations of crimes, vague on details, blames “some black guy”, or is earnestly mistaken on a perpetrator when a crime still did occur, usually because of police prompting for the “right” suspect.

          Three, the rape statistics we do get tend to massively overinflate number of false rape accusations, often using things like “person retracted their case” (which often means they are tired of still trying to fight a broken system) or are influenced by the cops trust of the reporter and most times cops are awful to survivors:
          http://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf
          https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sheela_Raja/publication/12695910_Secondary_Victimization_of_Rape_Victims_Insights_from_Mental_Health_Professionals_Who_Treat_Survivors_of_Violence/links/5665e3f308ae192bbf9274e7.pdf

          Four, those false accusation numbers also frequently include stories like this:
          https://www.propublica.org/article/false-rape-accusations-an-unbelievable-story

          Five, the burden of proof in a typical rape case that goes to trial is obscene and even then, with strong evidence, judges are very prone to interpreting things like this owing again to the strong prevalence of rape myths:
          http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/12/13-year-old-s-rape-case-dismissed-because-her-body-is-well-developed.html

          Like, when even the literal age of the person proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that statutory rape occurred, you get abusive nonsense like that dehumanizing the victim at the same time as denying them justice.

          Six, despite our fears about how they “typically” ruin lives, our society does better at rehabilitating folks convicted of sexual assault than folks prosecuted for theft or even folks who admit they’ve been assaulted:
          http://www.shakesville.com/2014/10/this-is-rape-culture.html

          Does it occur? Yes. Do people arrested falsely for any crime deserve to go free? Fuck yes.

          But this over-focus we place on “false accusations” every time people talk about real accusations betrays a cultural mythology that views false rape accusations as somehow more prevalent and harmful than other false accusations or more harmful and prevalent than folks’s experiences with sexual assault.

          Now, the article you cite is frequently vile (quoting from men’s rights activists and painting them sympathetically, painting just so stories of sympathetic administrators when most college rape investigations focus more on burying crimes than responding with suspension (one of my ex students is going through this right now and is having to sue the school because they refused to even open an investigation to her sexual assault despite Title IX making that illegal), frequent insinuations that statistics from sexual assault researchers are to be mistrusted and assumed to be hiding a real epidemic, and even openly admits that the author is paranoid about feminist blogs and encourages the reader to be as well), but even its central mythology it tries to paint betrays its central argument.

          The “case” you reference, section IV in the article, notes that the “false rape accusation” he is talking about never involved a formal court case and which he feels he disproved by watching video record of the case personally (and his judgment on what counts or doesn’t count as assault is definitely not to be trusted giving the biases in the other sections and the fact that most people tend to assume anything outside of violent penetration doesn’t count as a sexual assault).

          And so his “consequences” are incredibly mild, per the article section you quote:
          “If I hadnā€™t, I donā€™t know what I would have done. My two choices would have been to either accept the possibility that Iā€™m staying friends with a rapist, or to accept the possibility Iā€™m ostracizing someone for something he didnā€™t do.”

          And from section IV’s vile fantasy of what false rape accusers have to gain “going outside the system”:
          Or if even the school administrator isnā€™t guilty-until-proven-innocent enough for you, why not just go to a bunch of your friends, tell them your ex-boyfriend raped you, and trust them to spread the accusation all over your community? Then it doesnā€™t even matter whether anyone believes you or not, the rumor is still out there.

          Oh dear, rumors, ostracizations from friends?

          This is what regularly, consistently happens to any survivor who makes any kind of accusation against a rapist in their friend circle or community.

          This worst case dream fear of this fuckhead is the regular life experience of nearly everyone I have known who has tried to warn their friend circle or community about a predator. They almost invariably are ostracized. They most certainly become prone to all sorts of rumors about how “damaged” they must be to accuse Beloved Figure X, most centering on their assumed “sluttiness”.

          Even the worst these fuckers bring to bear to argue that they are victims of a feminist conspiracy pales in comparison to the effects that are routine for survivors.

          Even on this thread, which I remind you is about a comic strip detailing an assault that we know for a fact occurred, we have survivors having to defend against discussions of “false rape accusations” which privilege the theoretical social consequences of those accused over the real consequences of those doing the accusing or suffering the rape itself.

          Now imagine you are a rape survivor and you’re not an ornery fuckhead like me and even in things depicting stuff that is 100% actual real rape in its universe, you run into a gauntlet of “what about the menz” style whine pieces about false rape accusation. Imagine how fucking safe that makes you feel. Imagine how that makes you feel about your assault.

          This whole conversation, last night and this morning, I’ve been typing through multiple body memories of my rapist’s attack, because that’s what talking about this stuff brings up for me.

          But hey, what about the theoretical possibility of someone being accused in a way that has no lasting impact other than maybe women are a bit more hesitant about sleeping with them?

          Fuck, I am done with this shit, because this parasitical conversation of false rape accusations centers what shouldn’t be centered in discussions of actual rape and feeds into the rape mythologies that mean a rape survivor practically needs a signed affidavit from the pope to receive justice and even then only does so by suffering through a trial where they are repeatedly called a (slur for women) who made up their whole assault.

          It’s a fucking poison and it has real world consequences to the point where I didn’t even bother to report my rape. Because why would I put myself through all that when even the people who witnessed it didn’t consider it worth intervening for?

          Instead I let myself be pushed out of that space, one that had meant a lot to me for a long time. And that’s the real typical fallout. Invisible, silent, and easy to dismiss.

    9. Gwen

      It’s the “usually” that is the biggest problem here, as well as the fact that his first instinct is to presume the victim is lying. His tone is also very dismissive, as if it’s highly unlikely any post like this could *possibly* be accurate. His wording is also ambiguous about whether he means social media posts or assault accusations in general. So yeah, some social media posts are inaccurate. That doesn’t make his response less problematic.

  27. Thevoiceoftreason

    Now we know who the identity of the getaway driver.

  28. Tenchan

    Joyce-a-roo?! Is that like a new cookie and dip that Willis will be selling soon? You know, like Dunkaroos!

    1. MatsuoTanuki

      God those were delicious, but I could never get the cookie to frosting ratio right, no matter how hard I tried I always ended up with that one cookie with the tiniest little smidge of frosting on the end.

    2. BBCC

      Want.

  29. MatsuoTanuki

    Victim blaming is NEVER okay!

    Unless someone breaks an arm when tring to reenact one of the stunts on Jackass, then it’s totally their fault.

  30. Reltzik

    To Tan-Hoodie-Guy. You don’t have to-….

    ….

    To Hypothetical Non-Canon Alt-Text Tan-Hoodie-Guy. You’re not actually PLAYING Devil’s Advocate there.

  31. Grethelwvier

    ……Well on a positive note, eyebrows flying off a person’s face is one of my favorite things in visual storytelling.

  32. kboyx1

    I thought Becky saying “undies in a twist” meant something else… Never mind ā€¢_ā€¢ *whistles*

  33. Cerberus

    Comic Reactions:

    Okay, I’m trying to be cool, but the folks in the comment threads devil’s advocating warnings about rapists… i.e. the thing survivors are reduced to doing because no one takes rape seriously are definitely poking me right on my rage button.

    Like, fuck, people, this is as mild as consequences get and yet we still get people hemming and hawing even though we know this is a rapist and even though the decks are so unbelievably stacked against survivors its not a joke.

    Like the vast majority of rapes end in the survivor sucking up their PTSD and suffering in silence. And pretty much any time a survivor takes a risk to try and stop their rapist harming the next person like them, they get slammed down hard by rapists and rape-apologists who’d like to believe in a world where fake rape accusations occur more often than Bigfoot sightings.

    Like fuck people, are you all aware of how many of us have just eaten our rapes because even trying to warn our friend circles to stay away results in heavy personal consequences? How utterly depressing all the numbers on rape are? How beyond stacked the decks are?

    So yeah, no, we don’t really need you tan hoodieing like you have the slightest clue what you’re talking about.

    Sorry for that, but seriously, not cool.

    Which on that note…

    Panel 1: So funny thing about anonymous complaints about a rapist. They tend to attract doxxers like nothing else. You can be very vague, you can disguise your identity, you can minimize the horror of what happened to you, but there’s a crowd of very angry rapists online who love to dox and harass someone talking about a rape, because well… rapists.

    And a lot of times, this ends up being a type of martyrdom, taking a big risk in the hopes of making a safe space for others to share their stories of being attacked by the same predator. A number of serial rapist or harasser has been sussed out by one attempted anonymous person reporting their experiences causing many more to pour forth and share their stories as well.

    Because based on studies looking just at answers by folks about their own actions committing rape, about 9% of rapists are responsible for around 95% of all rapes*. And sussing out those predators is well a matter of “missing stairs” (which I will link to in the next reaction). Meaning this informal system of warning others in our community is often our only means of protecting others from a serial rapist, because the cost of just removing them is frequently too high.

    *https://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-predators/

    It’s a shitty situation caused by a broken system, kind of like all the desperate crowdfunding for medical bills or anti-homeless funds for trans/queer kids who get kicked out of their homes. In a better world, this informal network wouldn’t exist, but in our world… yeah.

    1. Shiro

      Right? The past week it’s been one douchefuck after another here. Like fucking whack-a-mole.

      1. Emperor Daniel

        The mouseover text even mocks the idea of playing devil’s advocate in these kinds of situations. And they’re still coming in..

      2. Kris

        With a douchefuck here and a douchefuck there. Here a douche, there a fuck, everywhere a douche-fuck! Old McWillis had a webcomic!

        Sorry I immediately thought this upon reading your comment.

    2. Cerberus

      Missing stair link: http://pervocracy.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/missing-stair.html

      1. Leorale

        Yes this concept is so useful. I have one or two in my summer workplace, and this is how I explain his continued presence there.

      2. Chris Phoenix

        I’ve read the (excellent) article and most comments, and have a question (also knowing you’re a teacher):

        What can be done when the missing stair is a 10 year old student in a public school?

        On a parents’ list that I read, a parent recently posted a plea for help; their ten year old daughter had been seriously injured by a classmate. When she returned (a couple weeks(!) later) he sexually harassed her by word and gesture. In the meantime, he had threatened another classmate with scissors.

        (Several people on the list asserted that the school has to keep his best interests in mind as well – they can’t just expel him! After all, he’s not evil, he’s obviously troubled!)

        What would you tell that parent? What would you want that school to do, and how likely is it that they would? (it’s in the LA area.)

        1. Cerberus

          Well, a) on the ground, the teacher needs to separate that student from having any more contact with the student they are bullying and harassing, even if that involves suspension in order to send the message that that behavior is not okay.

          B) Those actions would also send me a major red flag that the child is being abused at home and is repeating toxic actions he is seeing modeled there (I had a similar situation, student sexually assaulting their sister in class, threatening folks with scissors, etc…). Which suggests that there is multiple layers of failure to protect children occurring at this school.

          C) But more specific to the parents’ list, you can put pressure on the school to actually investigate this seriously as obviously her being out for weeks in a way he wasn’t and her being allowed to be abused again is a sign of a complete failure of the school to respond appropriately.

          D) If they continue to stonewall, then the parents’ group has real power, because they can word of mouth that school and make it poison in the community. If you can attach the principal’s name to that inaction, even better as that’s where these things typically break down the most, even better. Schools tend to be way more responsive to angry parents’ groups and bad press than they are their own teachers telling them that this is a serious issue needing a real response.

          E) To the parent themselves, a simple “That sounds awful, how can I help” can be really useful, especially if everyone else is being super dismissive of the case.

        2. Leorale

          Can the kid be specifically taught other, nonviolent behaviours? Could he leave the main classroom to learn them?
          I would love if the school would pay for a specialist who deals with kids who’ve acted out violently, who can find out why he’s doing that.

        3. Cerberus

          Oh very much. Honestly a good school would set him up with a social worker who can both help him emotionally and find out if there’s bad stuff at home he’s emulating.

          And should definitely not be kept in a classroom with a student they regularly antagonize which likely would mean switching his class at the very least to a different teacher. At minimum he should definitely be kept a strong eye on and removed at first sign of negative behavior, ideally to a specialist or counselor who can help him burn off his harmful behavior in a space where that doesn’t hurt others.

          But the main thing is social worker, because a 10 year old picks that shit up from somewhere and home is the most likely place. It’s a really big red flag. šŸ™

        4. Ansel

          On missing stairs, we had some in the small town where my family lived. Thankfully they weren’t rapists or child abusers.

          There was a pair of kids a couple years older than me, and I heard about them doing generic bad things from the time I was quite young. I guess they were in my pre-school or something, I don’t remember knowing them but my family thought I would. Anyway, I kind of forgot about them as I heard about them less.

          Then, when I was about twelve, a friend who lived close to them just casually mentioned that the pair had snuck into her neighbour’s yard and strangled all of their chickens, and that was when it really hit me.

          Nothing ever seemed to happen to them until they were accused of burning down the old elementary school (out of use other than for storage, thankfully), and at least one of them is involved in a recent string of break ins.

          –

          Chris Phoenix- (enormous trigger warning) It was swept under the rug and I could only find one article (below) about it, but we had something similar happen at the elementary school behind my high school. Four or five boys who were around 9-10 stripped and sexually assaulted a girl who was a few years younger. The story (without names or anything of course) didn’t come out until two months later.

          https://www.pressreader.com/canada/the-province/20080129/281732675168766

          So in response to what the school should do, I’d say basically anything but that, but in more detail:

          -alert the parents (preferably all, but at least in the grade(s) that the students involved were in) as to what happened
          -along with the above, hire a consent educator to talk to the students in that/those grade(s), without involving the specific events
          -contact child services because as Cerberus said, something is probably wrong at home
          -have individual counseling for the students involved, with at least a recommendation of a behavioural therapist for the assailant and a counselor with relevant experience for the victim
          -be ready/willing to set up transfers for involved students, so that it is not on the victim to change schools (but is possible for them to if they don’t want to go back).

    3. Bagge

      Every group I know, when for some reason people start to share survival stories about rape and sexual harassment, it’s opening a flood gate. “I thought I was the only one.” “I never dared to say anything.” and of course, sadly, male denialism. “But I KNOW that guy. I have never seen him do anything rapey. You must be wrong.”

      Issuing a warning is such a non-consequence of a rape, but right now it is what we have to work with.

    4. Bluewind

      How are you? I know this comic has to bring up a lot of emotions. And how is your fiancĆ©? I hope they are doing better. I hope you don’t have to end up pushing the wedding back to far, but both of your health is more important.

      I think moving away from my dad has helped me as I only see him twice a week for a visit. The previous strips with Sir stirred up a lot of emotion that I’m not sure what to think of as of just yet. I’m not sure how to feel about the raw words I said and if I truly feel that way and am in deep denial or not. I thought I had unpacked my baggage but it turns out there was plenty left.

      Literal baggage wise I’m unpacking more each day, but there were things that were supposed to be fixed before I moved in which weren’t and she currently has no plan on fixing. My AC also doesn’t seem to register temperature and just stays on (I hadn’t noticed because I had been using the heater which worked fine), so it’s time for another chat -_-

      1. Cerberus

        I’m… fuck, let’s be honest, I’m a mess. I’ve been super worried about my fiancee and managed to run my immune system into the ground not sleeping. We’re delaying the wedding about a year (we really want a Trans March anniversary), because they want some low-stress time to stabilize more and I’m super down with giving that.

        Plus I’ve got some spinning plates in the near-future that I’m panicking about (mostly my grad school app) and will probably panic about up until the point that I finish and hear back from them.

        But yeah, the shitty comments defending abusers and rapists at the expense of their victims have definitely not been helping and I’ve been having some lovely persistent flashbacks thanks to it all (especially the rape stuff last night and this morning, but then, that’s just what rape stuff tends to bring out in general).

        Been enjoying the comic though. It’s been… stabilizing, in a weird way, even though the topics have been super intense and have brought up a lot of stuff. I dunno, it’s nice how much Willis gets it and how that gets communicated in the strip. And being in a community of so many folks that get it. It helps make me feel less alone and broken.

        1. Bagge

          *All the internet hugs*

        2. Bluewind

          I figured as much. You have been through a lot of insane things lately and your stress must be off the charts! When’s your next therapy appointment and meds appointment? You might need to see if your medication needs tweaked. Mental health wise I’m on paxil for depression and anxiety, Gralise ER for Hemiplegic Migraines but it also helps my depression, and half a Trazodone as needed when my anxiety spikes (it’s mainly used as a sleep med but works on anxiety too. Go figure). Also have you taken a sleep study recently? I found out a few things and now I get much better quality sleep which has helped me. Sunlight too (I’m actually thinking of getting a SAD light for when I can’t go outside).

          I can see wanting that anniversary with how yall met. I hope they are feeling better and continue to improve. At least they have a supportive partner šŸ™‚

          I’m proud of you for going back to school. I know it’s scary and stressful especially with your past and the little voice in your head that is the echo of your abuser telling you a million little reasons why not to do this, but you are good at what you do and you deserve this. Remember that you aren’t just doing this for yourself; you are doing it for your future students as well. Get a doctorate if you want! Take language classes and become fluent in 4 languages. Learn to play the guitar. Just about anything you educate yourself in will benefit your students in some way. You can do this. You’ve shown that you are an intelligent person with an eye for detail so your only limitation is that little bug on your shoulder in need of squashing.

          The defenders of abusers and rapists have gotten to me too, but what’s got to me more is the people calling them out on their flawed logic. Some are survivors and some are advocates, but they are all standing together against this. There are some who have even realized their flawed logic and changed their minds. That’s powerful stuff right there.

          I know what you mean about how the comic is effecting you. Willis was amazing. When he showed Ruth in the hospital after she had been brought in instead of cutting to later or focusing exclusively on the people in the waiting room, I cried because it was the first time I had ever seen a representation of what it’s really like. The assault storyline hasn’t effect me as much because I’m one of the lucky ones that a combination of frequent therapy, medication, and a good support system helped me mostly recover after a couple years (even though the real life deniers hurt me deeply and I’m still scared of him and have a lot of anxiety at the possibility of seeing him/him calling). This comic nails the assault and after effects perfectly and as someone who was both raped by one person and sexually assaulted by another, I have to say that I’m proud of what this comic has shown. So many writers think that genitals have to be involved to cause trauma, but that’s not true and this shows that and how it doesn’t go away overnight. And the strips with Sir showed the power of verbal abuse while hit me harder than anything yet. But you’re right. It’s cathartic to see these things portrayed because it’s like we are finally being acknowledged and represented. Willis has literally illustrated what we experienced and this comic and it’s comments have shown that we are not alone and there are others out there that feel the same. It also gives us hope that one day the real us will be shown in media instead of the caricature almost all still display. We need to get more accepting of mental health treatment just like going to any other doctor, have better support systems in place for survivors, educate the public, and stop all the denial of abuse and sexual assault sure, but this comic is a start.

        3. Rukduk

          *hugs* I’m not a rape victim, but one of my late friends was. So I got a good first hand witness to a lot of shit. So a lot of these comments have me seeing red. The idea of the victim blaming is just…fuck. And I am so sorry about what reading the comments is doing to you. And that you’re having the flashbacks because I remember when that would happen to my friend. It was terrible, and nothing I could do to help. And the other day you were so nice when you replied to my, well my venting last comic and helped talk with me about that. I just, hope you and your fiancĆ© are ok and safe. If talking with any of us in the comments can help you feel better, I’m willing to do that. I have a week off, so I can keep coming back to the commemts and honestly, I wish I could do more to help you because you’re someone I respect but speaking in the comments is realistically all I can manage.

        4. Cerberus

          Awww, thanks. That’s very sweet to offer. *hugs* And you’re doing plenty. Keep being your awesome self.

  34. Gesc

    It’s a guy with a scar on his face. It cane be kinda pixeled and stuff but you will surely be able to recognize the fucker if you see him.

    Also he’s not being the devil’s advocate, he’s desestimating everything being said here. There’s cynicism and there’s being intentionally obtuse.

  35. Bagge

    I LOVE Becky here. Not only does Joyce recognize what she does and thank her for it, but she STILL manages to change the topic and distract her.

    I give even odds that she roped Walky into it to get HIS mind off Billie’s situation too.

    2 for 1. And basking in the warm glow of Walky and Joyce bickering about something Safe&Silly, Becky just smiles, a job well done.

    She is such a great friend therapist. I hope she will fill the wise bartender role over at Galassos’ regularly.

  36. Kris

    I think people are missing the forest for the trees here. Tan hoodie and his cavalier attitude towards potential rape rumors don’t matter because he and green-haired girl aren’t real characters. They have no names in the tags and it will be a small miracle if they show up again. What’s important and what I think is being presented here is that the news is circulating! Ryan’s one step closer to being caught now that more people are aware. Enough people that two nameless mooks can discuss it’s legitimacy after a math class. So don’t bother with tanned hoodie. He’s no Clint. Hell he’s not even that math professor we only see from behind and far away.

    1. Gesc

      I mean yeah, but you as a creator don’t show something if you don’t want to say something with it. They’re relevant right now. They won’t be relevant tomorrow, but today they have the stage and a message.

    2. Shiro

      At this point I’m more concerned with the shitty opinions of the very real people in this comment section, tbh.

      1. Cerberus

        Yeah, sure are a fuckton of tan hoodies out today.

        But yeah, he “doesn’t matter”.

        1. thejeff

          I now want “tan hoodie” and “tan hoodieing” to become standard terms for this kind of thing.

        2. BBCC

          I approve.

        3. Random832

          Tan Hoodie, noun. Someone who says something that Fart Captor and Tarmaniel swear up and down would not have gotten the same reaction that what the actual tan hoodie comic character said did.

        4. Fart Captor

          I would like to direct your attention to the complimentary bag of dicks you may consume at your leisure.

        5. Cerberus

          Fuck off, channer trash.

        6. 3-I

          Please kindly fuck the hell off to whatever island of monsters you came from before we summon Godzilla.

    3. Grethelwvier

      Perhaps, but that doesn’t means we can’t call him an asshole when he’s being one.

      1. Kris

        Well yeah but much like Shiro I find it really off putting this is becoming a debate platform for…..unpopular?…. opinions. But hey people will be people.

  37. nobodybasically

    Ahem. Walky’s undies will NOT “be fine, thank you.” They caused that zit on his taint.

  38. kboyx1

    Welp. Guess Walky’s gonna have that we twitch for the next few pages.

  39. BBCC

    Seriously though, shout out to Joyce’s crew!

    Sal’s been handling the whole situation fairly decently – she had realistic, if pessimistic, advice the next day, went on the beach trip to cheer up Joyce, was one of the first to know she was having problems walking alone and told her to confide in her friends, frigging chased Ryan down with AG, and now she’s stamping that worthless ‘false accusation’ bs into the dirt. Go her! (That said, I am seriously worried about HOW she knows so much about how rape and sexual assault work. I’ve been seeing a lot of red flags for her before, and I know Cerberus has too).

    And A+ Becky, distracting her with taunting Walky and getting out of there. She knows this is sucking for Joyce, so she puts something fun in front of her, and she’s going to make Joyce have fun. She knows her so well and is SO GOOD with her! Go her!

    1. Rukduk

      Yeah, I’m just going to say that they are probably the best group of friends ever. And add that I feel both Sarah and Billie would have ripped into tan hoodie guy if they were there.
      But about Sal, I’m honestly getting a lot of red flags too. I also just remembered that she mentioned during the little party in Joyce’s room that she lost virginity during a game of it. And I’m starting to worry it might not have been consentual. And a lot of factors are going into that. One, how much she knows both about sexual assault and (more importantly) how authorities tend to respond. Two, she was at a boarding school in Tennessee, meaning she was alone in a different state (a former Confederate State at that) without any support network or real connections there. And three, it was a Catholic boarding school. Now full disclosure, I am personally Catholic and went through Jesuit Catholic education myself. That said, Catholic priests and institutions developed the reputation they now have for a damn good reason. There were a decent number of Catholic priests who were pedophiles or rapists who were covered over by their bishops and the institutions of the Catholic Church themselves. And nuns stil have brutal reputation when it comes to them being teachers also for a very good reason. So, these things have made my paranoid mind fear that Sal might have been raped at the boarding school she was at, maybe by one of her teachers. At the same time, something else I just realized, while she (Sal) is very comfortable with straight sec and attraction towards guys, she’s been uncomfortable concerning physical contact with other women, and while not homophobic did not react well to the idea of having sex with another when Marcie told her she wanted to have sex with Malaya. Part of being uncomfortable with Joyce fawning over her hair is probably because she doesn’t like being fetishized based on a physical trait, but her reaction to Joyce hovering over her when she woke was very violent. And, while not as focused upon as female rape by a male or male rape by a male, female rape by a female does exist. What if, and I’m really, really hoping this isn’t true but my brain is making me state this, Sal was raped at her boarding school by another female student or by a nun? Like I said, I really hope this didn’t happen, and it probably didn’t, but know that my brain realized the possibility it’s making me obsess about it.

      1. BBCC

        Was Sal’s school taught by nuns? Is that a thing in the US? Around here, all the Catholic schools just have normal ass teachers, of both genders.

        I actually don’t think Sal’s that comfortable with sex with guys either – she talks about it fine, but when the opportunity comes up (or she thinks the guy sees an opportunity) she’s not very enthused. A friend who read the Slipshines said that she treated her run in with Jason like a confrontation and refused to relax, and then left as soon as they were done. She also seems to expect that when she asks for help or someone offers to help her that they’ll expect sex in return (not just with Jason – that’s also why she thought Danny wanted to help her).

        She seems to have very strong boundaries in particular.

        I’m not sure it was the game she lost her virginity in though – she seemed pretty comfortable mentioning that casually. We also know that that encounter was with a boy (Word of Willis was she snuck out to meet boys). It’s possible if it happened, it could have been a woman. I admit, I was thinking either some sort of authority figure or possibly an abusive boyfriend because of the aforementioned choking, sneaking out to meet them (and therefore they probably were not being vetted by the school), and the fact she mentioned to Marcie that she ‘always picks the worst damn people (excluding Marcie)’. That said, either or (or a non binary person) is possible, so I’m trying to keep my pronouns for her hypothetical attacker neutral. If I slip up, it is unintentional and my apologies ahead of time.

  40. Leorale

    A major problem with getting dudes to believe in rapes is that is easier for them to identify with the accused than to identify with a woman.

    1. Grethelwvier

      #why boys need female role models in their life

      1. Fart Captor

        And why “boys will be boys”, “locker room talk” and other phrases (but more importantly the ideas behind them) need to die.

        Even when guy sees something awful, we’re taught not to speak out. Because to “be cool”, you can’t take offense, especially when it’s because of how something affects someone who is not you. You’re just supposed to let it slide.

        See also: accusations of “white knighting”, “virtue signaling”, and other bullshit fine-tuned to discourage speaking out against other men’s shitty behavior.

        1. Grethelwvier

          This. But I don’t think it’d fit in a hashtag…

        2. C.T Phipps

          I used to be a big fan of a television show called THE NEWSROOM by Aaron Sorkin. The first season was very good, essentially editorializing on real-life news. The second and third, however, had stories which really didn’t work very well since they didn’t have relevance to RL. I had to drop the show due to a controversial plotline where a sexual assault survivor put up a website where women could report their rape stories. Basically, the woman was taken aside by one of the main male leads and mansplained to why it was a bad idea to do that because it could have the potential to have an innocent man implicated by her. I hated it because it was….so awful and smug.

          http://time.com/3623281/a-newsroom-writer-says-aaron-sorkin-yelled-at-her-over-rape-plot/

        3. 3-I

          Oh god, and his response, blaming the writer for not keeping what happens in the writing room “confidential.”

          aaaaaaaugh why are people this fucking AWFUL and why are they tolerated when they are?!

    2. Bagge

      And of course, the accused is our friend or someone much like him. Especially in a small community it very quickly becomes personal, and sadly not in a way that protects the victim.

      1. Cerberus

        Yup, most folks in a community tend to know both victim and perpetrator and the natural sympathies lean perpetrator almost every time. I’ve seen it happen again and again and most of the times the victim ends up needing to leave a friend’s circle or a community owing to getting way more bs thsn the perpetrator ever does.

        What makes Joyce’s arc so satisfying is that this frame, where her crew fully believes and supports and is willing to fight for her is so rare. Most of the time, we’re lucky if we can retain a small handful of support when we talk about experiences of rape or sexual assault.

        So it’s rather refreshing.

  41. Cerberus

    Panel 2: *Stares murder daggers into tan hoodie man*

    Cause fuck is this worldview everywhere. This idea that rape survivors are “constantly making it up”, that there is some advantage for rape survivors in coming out, that there is some real disadvantage for someone accused of rape.

    This fiction persists to the point where rape is one of the most under-reported and under-prosecuted crimes on the planet and where an accusation is much more likely to generate sympathy for the accused over the accuser whereas almost every other crime in this country works the opposite.

    And it leads to a world where someone can be convicted of rape and still have a long and storied career and can actually end up in a better position than before he was convicted of rape than he was to start with. Fuck, people are paying Brock Turner, the famously light-sentenced rapists huge amounts of money to tour around campuses like the one in which he committed sexual assault to wax poetically about how “drinking culture” causes rapes and women need to protect themselves better.

    Meanwhile, people who accuse folks of rape, even if they are proven right are hammered hard by society. Constant harassment, death threats, rape threats, open discrimination from jobs, potential partners looking at them like a potential threat, open hatred.

    Accusing someone of sexual assault often means living with a lot of social consequences and can end up getting you blacklisted from certain industries in the way being a rapist doesn’t.

    Hell, even just admitting to being raped gets you side-eyed and assumed to be broken and untrustworthy and at risk of discrimination, because clearly you can’t be trusted in anything now that you’ve been raped.

    So yeah, I loathe people like tan hoodie man.

    And I especially loathe this zombie notion of “just made up for attention”, as if there was any benefit to the attention you get when you speak publicly about surviving rape. As if it didn’t frequently end in harassment and people openly denying your experiences to your face as if they’ll get a prize if they catch you out in an inconsistency based on their woefully inaccurate idea of how sexual assault works (cause clearly its always caused by a swarthy stranger in the bushes and the virginal victim is able to get one clear sharp no out before they are attacked).

    There is no fucking benefit to the “attention” of openly stating you’ve been assaulted, especially if you name your rapist while doing so. But that twisted broken worldview allows rape-apologists to believe that they are being “skeptical” when they are in fact being denialists to the breadth of the problem besieging those around them.

    And the framing slams that home. Joyce the survivor behind them, looking up at this asshole openly condemning her.

    Cause well, that’s every time assholes like this open their mouths. At least 1 in 6 women have been raped. At least 3% of men have been raped. And communities like trans folks and ace folks often report being raped at around or above 50%. And that’s not counting all the people who dismissed their rapes as “not that bad” or declined to speak about it.

    When an asshole like this spouts this garbage in a public space like this, it is nearly guaranteed that there’s at least one rape survivor nearby hearing it, absorbing it, twisting it inside themselves and using it to abuse themselves over it.

    So yeah, fuck tan hoodie guy and all the real-world people he’s based on.

    1. BBCC

      Is it sad that the 1 in 6 is an optimistic estimate? Last I read it was 1 in 4 worldwide, 1 in 3 for Native women, and I believe 1 in 4 in my country as well.

      Fuck everything.

      1. BBCC

        Actually, no, I take my question mark back – it’s fucking disgraceful.

        1. Cerberus

          Oh, it’s very much an under-estimation and the real numbers are likely much much higher.

    2. Bagge

      I mean, we see how much Joyce “benefit” from this attention. We have seen how much Dorothy angsted about even raising the question.

      And Joyce is one of the lucky ones with a well functional support network, friends who really believe her and no friends with a close tie to the rapist.

      1. BBCC

        And a big sister figure who will smack down false rape accusation assholes immediately.

      2. Cerberus

        Sharing friend pools with rapists is the worst. My ex lost her entire social support network minus like one or two people because they sided with the rapist over her.

        And the people who just want to be neutral and so invite the rapist and the survivor to the same events until the survivor just stops showing up can jag right off as well.

        1. Leorale

          How can anyone be neutral about rape? I’m very willing to lose friends if it means having no rapist pals.

        2. Cerberus

          You’d be very unpleasantly surprised. >:(

        3. Ansel

          Seriously. One of my closest friends stayed friends for several years with the girl who sexually assaulted me. (oddly, the assault is still why they stopped being friends. the person told my friend that she and I had been secretly dating (in truth she asked me out several times and I told her I liked hanging out but wasn’t attracted to women) and that’s when my friend finally stopped talking to her).

          And my friend (we’re still good friends, although less so in the couple years between that all) isn’t someone you’d expect that from. She’s not a rape apologist bro, she’s a feminist, but there just some cognitive dissonance and, I guess, a lack of will to challenge that.

        4. Ansel

          I reworded that, and accidentally left in the word ‘just’ in that last sentence, which sounds like I’m minimizing it. That’s unintentional.

        5. Cerberus

          *appropriate gesture of support* I’m sorry you went through that. And yeah, people tend to be really strong on the theory of what they’d do until it comes time to live that and acknowledge the fact that someone you considered a friend did something terrible.

          And it really really sucks to go through so *hugs offered*

        6. Fart Captor

          Ugh. WTF humanity?

    3. Rukduk

      As said before, screw tan hoodie guy. The idea that someone would claim to be raped to “get attention” is disgusting. Like, “Oh yeah, I’ll go through the victim blaming and social ostracization of being a rape victim because I’ll get all the attention I so crave” is not something someone thinks. And “most of those”? Most? Fucking “Most”?!? Red hot fire! In! My! Veins!!! Do some false rape accusations happen at times l? Yes. But “most” (and by most I mean a very large majority) of rape claims are true and every last one of them needs to be taken seriously! And the “That Guys” to borrow, I think it was, Shiro’s description/application of term coming out to speak up for tan hoodie guy and the shear amount of people since Clint showed up willing to “Play Devil’s Advocate” is messed up. Plus, I just got reminded of the whole way our society and justice system treat rape on the second anniversary of one of my best friend’s suicide because they were raped is making me pissed, depressed, and cynical. So that was a real treat!! I have to remind myself that the reason I don’t drink is because alcoholism runs in the family. Just…fuck!
      …
      Sorry Cerberus. I just, needed to get that of my chest and your comment felt like the best place because you’re nice and understanding of people who have issues. I know this is probably a thousand times worse than you because you’ve said before you’re a… rape survivor…and god I can’t imagine…*offers hugs through tears* I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Venting here was selfish, but…I miss her. And I couldn’t do anything to help when it happened.

      1. Cerberus

        *hugs tightly* I’m so so sorry that happened. Venting is never selfish and it’s absolutely okay to miss her and rage about how she was drummed out of her life. You are an awesome awesome person and you did all you were able to do at the time. And you hold her memory proud.

        You are awesome. Never forget that. Take care of yourself if you need to, this shit is hard on all of us. And it’s okay to prioritize self-care if you need it.

        And to the point, yeah, this whole “attention” thing is like… the most out-of-touch thing I’ve ever experienced. Like, the way that people who’ve been through hell are assumed to be “seeking attention” like it’s great to have the “attention” of harassers, like it’s great to have the “attention” of bigoted legislators, like it’s great to have the “attention” of having to constantly defend your base humanity?

        It’s utterly disconnected from reality and a twisted way to turn “suffering from our bigotry” into an accusation you can use to justify said bigotry. It’s mealy-mouthed self-serving bully claptrap and always always pointlessly cruel.

        *hug again* Seriously though, a suicide leaves a long wake. Please do be kind to yourself tonight. You deserve it.

  42. Romanticide

    Magical love gentleman shirt! šŸ˜€

  43. Delicious Taffy

    For the sake of clarity, and because I feel I may have communicated poorly above, I should say that I do not in any way condone the dismissive attitude of Beige Guy toward the very serious subject of rape accusations. He said a stupid thing, based on a very jaded view of social media posts.

    1. Delicious Taffy

      This is why I don’t speak up more.

      1. Grethelwvier

        *pats digital back*
        Man, I’m not usually good at words either. And I often have that same thought process. Please don’t let yourself be silent. Anyone not being antagonistic, and willing to entertain the possibility that they might be wrong is a valuable contributor to the conversation. Even when you botch it a lot. Because you get to sort out your stances in a way that you can’t in your head, and you still leave more articulate than when you entered.

      2. Cerberus

        I thought you were relatively respectful above and I appreciate that even if I’m a giant prickly pear about this issue.

  44. Cerberus

    As a trans woman, I’m liable to be arrested if I even resist violent deadly assault with my fists. On top of that, my trauma response is freeze, which means any weapon is openly useless in protecting myself. And I struggle with suicidal ideation which makes a weapon like a firearm much more likely to be used against myself.

    But hey, if they give you comfort, great. But I’m well aware that my ass is on its own the next time someone comes to hurt me and well past is precedent that that’ll occur sometime within the next two years and likely much sooner thanks to Trump.

    1. Shiro

      Looks like the mole you were (I’m guessing) responding to got whacked, the one saying we should just use force against rape attempts.

      So I also want to point out for education’s sake that the majority of rape victims are attacked by someone they know and trust, family or a partner or a friend, so that’s another reason “why didn’t you just shoot them” is buuuuuuuullshiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

      1. BBCC

        Also, even if you do shoot them, you’re more likely to go to jail for assault with a deadly weapon or attempted murder or excessive force.

        1. Chris

          Sorry, forgot we live in Trump nation and that you guys have close friends and family! Please accept my humble apologies, I did not mean to offend you

        2. BBCC

          I live in Canada, where we don’t actually have the right to own a gun, and the places we may carry them are subject to restrictions.

          Especially in my area, where the prevailing view is ‘guns are scary, unless they’re for hunting, you don’t need a gun’ and the likely reaction to pulling one on a rapist would be ‘HOLY SHIT SHE HAS A GUN’ and then I’d go to jail probably for far longer than my attempted rapist would, so really REALLY not worth the effort.

        3. Chris

          Ah, yes, Canadian gun laws… I wonder why they have less shootings. At least in Canada you have more peace, and American politics to laugh at. But sadly, that peace will end as North Korea has ballistic missiles and a fat, crazy dictator, while Russia (no offense Russians) is feeding nukes to people (mostly terrorists) on the black market. Don’t let this depress you

        4. BBCC

          …Yay me?

          You’d be surprised how many guns folks actually have. My dad has five or six and my mom has one. He likes hunting though and she wanted to see if she could get a license, so.

        5. Chris

          Well, in America, the only two rules we really have on owning weapons is that you must have a weapons permit and be an adult, and that you can purchase only one handgun a month (because handguns can be concealed). We can buy as much assault rifles and machine guns as we want, so, um, yeah. People wonder why we have so much shootings

        6. BBCC

          Machine guns-

          GODDAMMIT AMERICA, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?

        7. Tarmaniel

          You can buy a working RPG-7 in the US if you can afford the federal tax stamp for the rockets.

        8. Chris

          To answer your question below:

          What is wrong with America is that we were peasants and slaves forced into slavery by their own tribes, who struggled to become independent and free. Then, we attacked other countries as a defense and brought racist rich guys here. Then, we have allied ourselves with Russia, who has already broken all the cold war treaties as of February, buzzed a cruiser, and hacked political elections. And that we, like everyone else, can’t freakin deal with change! (Wooh, I needed that off my chest.)

        9. Reltzik

          In addition to that, what’s wrong with us is that we one of the first nations to give “democracy-with-constitutionally-reserved-rights” a try, and the result is that our Constitution contains a lot of stuff in it that later attempts knew better than to try.

          Also, gun manufacturers represent a huge source of money in politics and that makes it hard to fix.

    2. Rukduk

      I hope that doesn’t happen. I dearly hope that doesn’t happen. *offer of support* This whole situation is bullshit. I hope, I pray, that you and your fiancĆ© aren’t hurt. I’m not a very good Catholic but if God does exist and does listen, maybe it’ll be to the first prayer I say in years, and most likely the only one I say for next three and half. Heh, tried to add a little humor there to try to cheer myself and you up, since I think you said before you’re an atheist, but came out darker than I thought.

  45. Cerberus

    Panel 3: Oh man, tan hoodie guy being openly dismissive after he receives direct word that the evidence is real and this situation is legit might be the realest thing that’s ever existed in this comic.

    Because yeah, these “devil’s advocate” people love to pose that they don’t really care one way or another or don’t have anything invested in rape apologia, but when you call it out, prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt, they are often still invested in defending that worldview that “false rape accusations” are somehow an endemic problem and whatnot.

    Because it’s a toxic twisted cultural poison and those who are drowning the most in it are far too invested to let go of it just because they are wrong and refuse to help even when there actually is a provable villain who definitely raped someone.

    Jade haired girl is all right though.

    Also, I love Sal here, intervening, noting the reality of the claim, shutting down the bullshit knowing that Joyce is floating behind them absorbing this toxic worldview and hating herself.

    It’s so openly empathetic and beautiful and not the first time Sal has stepped in bodily to defend her from specifically triggering behaviors or actions. Which some people have pointed out might be a sign that Sal has some personal experience with regards to things like this either as a support network or a survivor herself.

    Panels 4-5: But still, it’s a key intervention, but nonetheless, it’s a hook that a survivor can often find themselves running with to beat themselves up. And Joyce is clearly suffering in silence back here thanks to fuckhead’s words.

    Panel 6: Oh Becky, you beautiful cinnamon roll you. She’s a master at this. The zany distraction when she sees Joyce on a bad spiral, the change in topic, the responsiveness to try and bring her to a topic she loves and can find joy in. And Joyce recognizes what she’s doing but it’s already helped a little in that her spiral is interrupted.

    Panel 7: It’s light teasing, but I think this might be confirmation that Becky wants some mild revenge for causing a mild heart-attack with that “Rapture” comment, especially as she’s been told by all the people of her hometown that her “sin” in acknowledging who she is will leave her behind in the tribulation. And given Joyce worries the same given her support for Becky and Dorothy, I see them taking a few loving potshots at Walky here.

    Also, oh Becky, you are good at knowing exactly what will cheer up and distract Joyce. And it’s so beautiful to see her so throughly supporting Joyce without it feeling like a sacrifice on her part.

    I think they really are starting to settle into a much healthier dynamic.

    Alt-text: I’ve learned to loathe “devil’s advocacy”, because well, the “devil” is almost always the status quo who already gets advocated to death. No one “devil’s advocate”s notions like “trans women are women” or “ace people count as queer if they want to be” or “people deserve universal healthcare”. It’s always bigoted defenses of the status quo that can be dismissed as a thought experiment when the pushback comes.

    And that’s why it feels bankrupt as a social phenomenon (it might be better in philosophy classes, but I’m not in philosophy classes, so I wouldn’t be able to say). Because the devil is always the side that already has all the advocates and the real socially risky thing would be to support the “angel” side as that is the side that comes with real social consequences for speaking on behalf of the marginalized.

    Like, fuck, I get more flak from assholes for talking about my rape in any space other than here, including fuckers angrily accusing me of making it up or ranting about how much I deserved it than any devil’s advocating hoodie bro has ever gotten for any “edgy” opinion ever.

    So yeah, fuck. That. Noise.

    1. BBCC

      Put it this way – if you’re about to say Devil’s Advocate, ask yourself if the devil you’re advocating for is YOU. If so, you’re not the Devil’s Advocate, you’re a gutless coward who knows that your words are reprehensible, but don’t want the consequences for saying it.

      An actual Devil’s Advocate doesn’t believe what they are saying, but is trying to argue convincingly for it to make other people understand why they might think so. People who use this should know when that is or is not an appropriate thing to do. A tense, delicate situation like this is not it.

      And yeah, I’ve been like 90% sure for the past year or so that Sal’s been raped or assaulted before. I’ve noticed quite a few red flags. Most of them could mean other things on their own, but put together they’re concerning me. A lot.

      1. ischemgeek

        I can vguarantee she’s been physically assaulted before – Amazi-girl stabbed her through the hand when she was a child (yes trauma response but from a reasonable person’s POV, Sal was no longer a threat when Amazi-girl attacked her – and to Sal that must have been traumatizing as all hell).

        I also get the impression that she has been the victim of somebform of police abuse at least once, and that she has been a victim of other abuses (likely including sexual abuse) by authority figures – at the school where she lived plus by her shitty parents.

        As someone who is as wary of authorities as Sal, let me say for the record this: That kind of pessimism and wariness of anybody in power comes from learning they cannot be trusted the hard way.

        1. BBCC

          Ohhhhh, I guarantee she’s been assaulted before. She’s implied a zillion times she used to be getting in fights left, right, and centre. She can’t have started ALL of them.

          Police abuse is almost a definite, because convicted and black, and doesn’t like taking shit, and I will fight anybody who says Linda and Charles were not abusive parents. No argument from me on that one. I’d not be surprised if her school was also abusive – a lot of reform schools are.

          I’m referring specifically to sexual abuse here though. I’m thinking its very likely she’s been sexually assaulted or raped at some point in her life.

        2. Cerberus

          I would agree. The red flags are definitely there and being that effective and knowledgable is usually a skill learned the hard way. Just like Billie’s wealth of useful information about terrible things was gained helping a lot of fellow cheerleaders who had terrible things happen to them.

        3. BBCC

          Oh thank god, I’m not the only one seeing them. Can I ask specifically what you’ve seen as red flags? I want to see if I’m missing any.

        4. Cerberus

          Biggest ones are these two strips:
          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-2/01-pajama-jeans/assault/
          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-2/01-pajama-jeans/law/

          Cause that tends to be a perspective you learn the hard way. Beyond that, the constant awareness, the way she speaks on Joyce’s level as if she has shared experience there. The way she’s quick to intervene when triggering stuff is occurring in a way that even well-meaning folks like Dorothy don’t. The death grip reflexes when someone hovers over her bed in the early morning. The way she was willing to overlook all the racist shit AG was doing to her when she started tracking Scarface Ryan. The way she talked to her about PTSD and triggers when she had the big heart-to-heart by the fountain.

          Like, she might just be a really good ally, but I’m willing to put money on at the very least someone very close to her being sexually assaulted.

        5. BBCC

          Yeah, that all sounds about accurate – either been assaulted, been support a LOT, or an exceptionally woke ally.

        6. Rukduk

          It’s possible she had to help Marcie through something like that. Another possibility that dawned on me with horror was that, given it was a Catholic boarding school in Tennessee, Sal might have been raped by a priest or “disciplined” by a nun with sexual abuse. As a Catholic who fully knows and hates the flaws of my church, and knowing the reputation nuns have with strict discipline and corporal punishment, it could very well have been rape with a foreign object to punish Sal for something. Like I said I know and hate the flaws of the Catholic Church (which is why I’m not a very good Catholic by all accounts) and sexual assault and rape committed by clergy does happen.

        7. Chris

          Well, obviously she is defending Joyce. But every time someone brings it up, her face becomes raw with emotion, (in terms of Sal) and that she is readily willing to work with others, including strangers, to help Joyce.

        8. BBCC

          That is true.

        9. ischemgeek

          Totes agree on sexual abuse. What makes me think it was from someone in authority at her school are how she referenced her school after chocking Joyce/Becky and how she quickly assumed that the way to survive math was to bang the TA. Suggests to me she’s been in the “sexual favors or I ruin you” coersion/abuse situation before.

        10. Cerberus

          Yeah, I get that potential vibe too.

        11. BBCC

          I’ve thought that too, though I admit my mind went straight to ‘abusive boyfriend’ when she was choking Joyce and Becky.

        12. Chris

          Oh, totally forgot that. And that she doesn’t screw around inside school, only outside campus, as she thinks it happened to her because she did something wrong. I would say that’s why she is rebellious. Maybe she told her parents, and they wouldn’t believe her, explaining why she dislikes them

        13. BBCC

          While it may be a contributing factor, Sal dislikes her parents because they’re negligent, abusive assholes who like Walky better because his mannerisms fit better into the predominant – i.e. white American – culture.

        14. BBCC

          Wait, I’m thinking I’m forgetting a strip regarding her not screwing around inside school because she did something wrong. Link?

        15. Chris

          Well, the only time we see her screwin around is outside a store, which seems to be a ways off campus. Along with that, we don’t see her be rude to teachers, and she doesn’t mess upon in front of them. Also, I think the abuse theories are right, because she also helped Becky when her father was technically abusing her

        16. BBCC

          Hmmm, I don’t know about whether or not that’s true that she wouldn’t be rude to a teacher. We’ve seen her be pretty rude to Jason and Ruth (who she actually put her hands on and threatened!) and those were both inside school and they certainly had the authority to punish her. Though, you’re right, she was much more polite to Professor Rees and to Jason before he hit on her. She was never very polite to Ruth, but Ruth was also threatening and bullying her roommate right in front of her. You may be on to something. I hadn’t considered that.

        17. nightsbridge

          I think they’re probably not physically abusive.

          Still abusive. BUt not physically. At the very least, if we take her word for it, lots of other girls violated her bodily autonomy with their stupid dorm ‘pranks.’

        18. BBCC

          No, the Walkertons have never struck me as physically abusive, but they’ve got emotional abuse and neglect going strong.

        19. BBCC

          Okay, thus far, I’ve noticed or seen people mention these red flags for Sal having been sexually assaulted at some point.

          – She’s got a lot of in depth, specific practical knowledge of how it feels and works.

          – She’s got a good idea how reporting to the police often goes.

          – She always quickly and decisively steps in to help Joyce and shut down people being triggery or douchey like Walky or Tan Hoodie Guy, specifically saying things like ‘if a girl tells ya to leave ‘er alone, you leave ‘er alone.’

          – She often shows a lot of emotion (either concern or anger) towards the situation, which is normal but a little out of Sal’s MO.

          – She frigging chokes people who hover over her in bed.

          – While Jason did hit on her first, she immediately went to the idea that if she didn’t understand what was going on, she’d have to sleep with the TA to boost her grade.

          – She tends to avoid trouble in front of folks like teachers, though if they start something (or a TA/RA) she immediately snarks back and will put hands on them.

          – Not a red flag, but around 25% of women worldwide have been sexually assaulted, and the rate is higher for WoC. It strikes me as unlikely Joyce is the only one in her friend group.

          – She seems to expect anybody helping her or who she wants to help her will want or expect sex in return. Not just Jason, as ischemgeek brought up – she thought Danny was helping her with her homework with the expectation of getting laid.

          – She’s not very social, doesn’t like crowds or noise, and avoids getting close to people not named Marcie. Part of that is absolutely abuse survival, but those are also common among rape survivors.

          – I have not read the Slipshines (I’m a college student working two volunteer jobs hoping they’ll turn into paid work, I don’t have the money to pay for my porn and my mom keeps all the bills in the house organized together online, I am NOT explaining that one to her), but I have a friend who has. She described it as ‘Sal treats the whole thing like a confrontation and refuses to relax the whole time, then she gets out of there as soon as they’re done’. It was something that concerned her enough to mention it to me as another red flag. Granted, this is JASON and I cannot think of very many guys at the school less appealing to sleep with (pretty much just Mike, Joe, and Ryan are less appealing) but still.

          – She really really REALLY does not seem to like people hitting on her nor does she often seem enthused about the idea of banging someone when the opportunity (or what she perceives someone wanting an opportunity) arises.

          – She mentioned she and Marcie have a history of ‘picking the worst damn people’. Marcie kinda rolled her eyes and smiled like it was a joke, but Sal seemed sincere.

          – She’s been fairly consistently good at handling the aftermath of Joyce’s assault, often with very precise, practical information that people usually miss. She pointed out realistic, if pessimistic, advice regarding the police, helped plan and went to the trip to the lake when Joyce wanted to go to a beach, told Walky to back off when he was being potentially triggery, helped AG chase him down and get the picture circulating, told Joyce to confide in her friends when she couldn’t walk places and walked her to the fountain, stays up watching for Ryan, and is now stamping ‘false accusation’ jerks into the dirt.

          – We know she has trouble sleeping, which she chalks up to insomnia, a common problem survivors have.

          – The way she dresses tends to fall into two common camps survivors have – One, lots of clothes that tend to be read as ‘sexy’ (lots of survivors play that up as a way to restore autonomy) and Two, lots of layers and often a full body motorcycle suit (doesn’t show a ton of skin).

          – She refers to supervisors trying to come onto their charges as ‘expected’. YIKES.

          – The reason she trusts people in her room isn’t because she doesn’t think they’ll do anything, it’s because she’s pretty sure she can take them.

          – When she does get to sleep, she keeps the covers up over her face. Again with the ‘covered up/not safe in bed’ thing.

          – She’s very protective of her boundaries – don’t touch her bike, don’t hover over her in bed, etc. and I don’t recall her being okay with being touched very often (again, unless your name is Marcie).

          I’m thinking Sal was assaulted by someone in authority or a boyfriend (possibly both, overlap exists) and when she tried to report it, it blew up in her face, with only Marcie being helpful (if she knows). If her parents know, yeah, I’m guessing that blew up on her too. She subsequently got to give them a beat down and that made her feel better and get him to back off.

        20. BBCC

          The ‘them’ in that last sentence being her rapist, not her parents.

          Her punching her parents eventually would be in keeping with the comics themes.

        21. Cerberus

          That all checks out and yeah, that’s my best guess as well.

        22. BBCC

          If I’m right and this is a thing that happened, it adds yet another reason why Sal’s so afraid of Marcie drifting away from her.

          I’ve seen folks suggest that the reason she’s so knowledgeable could be because it happened to Marcie or she was her school’s Billie, but then I remember her saying things like how she has the worst taste in people, choking people while she’s sleeping, and how she refers to fucking someone you are supervising as ‘expected’ and I think that it’s a lot more likely to be personal experience than her being a supporter for people in crisis. It’s possible she was, but I’m thinking it was learned the hard way for her. It’s not been looking great, flag wise.

          Anything you’ve noticed that I missed, Cerb?

        23. Cerberus

          That would make sense and I can’t think of anything else off the top of my head. It would also add an extra layer of why she’s hesitant to make new friends as well, because it can be hard to trust new people in that situation.

        24. BBCC

          Definitely, especially if her friends at the time were unsupportive or shitty, and Marcie was the only one who helped her.

    2. Bagge

      Both Becky and Sal are awesome here, and I think you right be right that Becky takes a shot at retaliation for that Rapture joke. If nothing else, she notes that his undies has been twisted recently.

      I also think that she tries to distract Walky from what’s bothering him (she doesn’t know about the math problems, but she DOES know about how worried he is about Billie).

    3. Chris

      As being ace, I agree that devil’s advocacy is bullshit. Most of my allies are fine, but it’s not like I can even talk to my own parents about being so. They’d dislike me if I was anything other than heterosexual. Another thing I hate is when people assume asexuals don’t like anyone. We mostly just don’t have an urge for sex. They think of us as being “forever-alone” or something. I say let those bastards go to hell!

      1. Cerberus

        Yeah, the weird myths that abound about ace folks are fucking bizarre.

        1. Chris

          I know right? Like myths that surround gay/lesbian folks. A bit messed up to think that just because we are different

        2. StClair

          So, is it true that you reproduce by budding?

        3. Chris

          Oh, great, a smart Aleck. No, that is mainly other animals. We just don’t reproduce unless we are forced to or we are gray ace. We also do marry sometimes, if we aren’t aromantic.

        4. Chris

          There is only one mammal that asexually reproduces, others are lizards, cold bloods, some sharks, etc

        5. Commodore Jeep-Eep

          Do tell? I didn’t know there was an asexually reproducing mammal before now.

        6. Cerberus

          I know that there’s parthenogenesis, but I might be way off on what Chris is referencing.

        7. Chris

          Dammit, where did I put that bookmark?

    4. Schol-R-LEA

      Oh, false rape allegations *do* occur… but what someone that never mentions is that they occur at a rate of about 1 for every 10000 *reported* rapes. Of course, he’d then argue that the implication that there are a lot of *un*reported rapes can’t be proven, something that is completely irrelevant in the face of the existing disparity in what he is claiming.

      1. Schol-R-LEA

        It is like arguing that everyone in Germany is evil incarnate because Hitler once existed.

        1. Schol-R-LEA

          (Besides, if that were the case, it would Austrians who were evil incarnate, right? šŸ˜‰ )

        2. Chris

          All Americans would be called racist, fascist, and sexist then, because of our leaders.

        3. Pablo360

          I’ve heard that exact argued before, but it’s more commonly made about Muslims. It makes exactly as much logical sense but somehow is more believable by many people.

        4. Chris

          So sad that we can’t accept each other. Us humans treuly are filth

  46. Papa Sparky

    Not sure if I can say this without sounding skeevy but is this the first time Joyce has worn an outfit that shows a little cleavage?

    The possible readings one could make about her character arc need on a single black line…

    1. Chris

      No, you don’t sound skeevy. I think you are actually right. I thought her shirt was buttoned earlier though. Eh, probably not

    2. BBCC

      A) ….Strip choice, dude. C’mon.

      B) Yeah, I think so.

      C) It wouldn’t be quite as skeevy if people didn’t bring it up every time we saw her and Amber today. For crying out loud, they’re tank tops. Tank tops droop a little, it’s not a big deal. I almost guarantee Joyce hasn’t even realized yet.

      1. Chris

        Okay, I have to agree with pretty much all of those. Willis probably did it on purpose

    3. Joe Covenant

      Channelling Margaret White.

      “I can see your Dirtypillows…”

      1. Delicious Taffy

        That movie sucked.

    4. NaYa

      I was actually going to point that out too.
      Joyce, actually wearing something relaxed enough that shows cleavage?!
      And it looks good on her!

  47. Cerberus

    Yeah, rape is my touchy button issue. Which is why I’ve taken a fuck ton of professional risks to try and protect and advocate for the kid that got assaulted at our school by a fellow student and then harassed by our head of school.

    Cause I literally can’t let that shit slide. I don’t work that way. It all pisses me off too much that I can’t just turn a blind-eye and protect myself in the “smart” way.

    I dunno, it’s a major character flaw according to our broken system.

    1. Chris

      Then again, humanity sorta is a flaw. We pretty much are a blight upon Earth. And yes, many systems are corrupt at the moment. What pisses me off is any corruption, so basically what you juast said

    2. Leorale

      This is why I don’t intend to do social work about children, even though it’s are my favourite people in general.
      You win some, you lose some, and I’m not sure I could stand losing some if they’re kids.

      (On the other hand, I’m strongly considering going for suicide prevention, so when I lose some of those, I’ll really lose them. YMMV for how to work with populations that really stir your soul.)

      1. Leorale

        *even though kids are my favourite people in general.

        (Goodnight, o autocorrect.)

        1. Chris

          Ooh. Is that traditional English I see? Favourite of mine you are indeed. I didn’t know anyone besides me did that. (Also, I am not an adult, but I agree that I’d rather fail at helping adults rather than kids)

        2. Leorale

          You, me, and all of Canada!
          I lived in Ontario until I was 11, and prefer the ‘u’s, it just looks right to me. šŸ™‚

    3. MatsuoTanuki

      Albus Dumbledore said something very wise about “choosing between what is right, and what is easy.” I can’t remember what the full quote is exactly, and if I did it would seem out of place, but it still feels relevant, right?

      1. Chris

        Yes, it does feel very appropriate

    4. Pablo360

      *the biggest of Internet hugs*

      You’re amazing, and never let anyone tell you otherwise.

      1. Chris

        Not sure if those were for me, but I accept

  48. Leorale

    *even though kids are my favourite people in general. (Goodnight, autocorrect.)

    1. Leorale

      Whoops this should have been a reply, please delete it if you wouldn’t mind between deleting rape-deniers.

  49. Leorale

    Man, the Devil is a total jerk, let’s stop advocating for him.

    1. Chris

      Ironically there is a Catholic Church position called Devil’s Advocate. Aren’t we supposed to obey God, not the Devil?

      1. Leorale

        Whaaat? Catholicism never ceases to surprise me with intriguing and odd traditions. Any Catholic-types in here know about this?

        1. Raen

          Yep. That’s where the term comes from. Basically a holy lawyer to argue against beatifying and/or canonizing someone. Not always even a Catholic; Hitchens played Devil’s Advocate for Teresa of Kolkata.

        2. BBCC

          And he somehow LOST????

          I’d think ‘she fucking left people without pain meds or medication, letting them get substantially worse, that flies in the face of basic Christian doctrine’ would be cincher.

        3. blue

          By the time of Teresa’s canonization process, the Advocatus Diaboli was a really perfunctory role. John Paul II changed it to basically a formality in ’83.

        4. blue

          That is to say, it’s not that Hitch lost necessarily – it’s that his argument simply didn’t matter to the process.

        5. BBCC

          Bah.

        6. JBento

          Of course he did. What do you think she did with all the money that WASN’T used to actually help people? Hint: it rhymes with “Barbican coffers.”

        7. BBCC

          I KNOW I KNOW. Gaaaaaaahhhhhh, goddammit.

          My school tried to make us look up to this jackass!

      2. Krys Brynhildr

        Well, and with the Devil kind of being the socially accepted bad guy in the first place, doesn’t using the term mean that the person knows deep down that what they’re defending is bad?

        “Hey, this thing is horrible, but how about we take a moment and pretend its actually not because of these reasons? It’ll be a fun thought experiment!”

        Except, you know, probably not fun for the person you’re Devil’s Advocating at?

        1. Cerberus

          Yeah. Plus, I dunno, I gather the purpose of a devil’s advocate in philosophy is to air a side that doesn’t usually get aired. So it being used to air a perspective that’s discriminatory and super common feels really off.

          Like, oh yes, this thing is horrible and also super common, in fact, more common than the alternative, but we really need to hear this super common viewpoint that harms people because something something makes your arguments for your base humanity better.

          Like, even if we were to take it on its face, the construction is completely FUBAR.

        2. Chris

          Can you pass me the rum Cerberus?

        3. Cerberus

          Gladly.

        4. Chris

          a few glasses later; ah, much better now! Who’s next on the rum list?

        5. BBCC

          My essay from yesterday is done, and so I have no reason not to after the hellscape the comments have been lately. Please gimme.

    2. Grethelwvier

      THIS.

    3. JBento

      Fun fact: the devil, aka Satan, Ha-Satan, meaning “the adversary,” was literally a prosecution lawyer – he advocated for why a particular soul SHOULDN’T be allowed into paradise after death. That was his job, as given to him by his god.

      1. Rukduk

        Exactly. The way I always tended to see it was that the devil was the first one to have the job, then another guy got the job after the whole “rebellion in heaven”, thing in Christian theology.

  50. Chris

    Guys, I have an idea! You know how some music can hypnotize people, like a snake charmer does? What if we used the hacked muzak to hypnotize people into punching tan hoodie guy? Then we don’t have to hop dimensions to punch him

    1. Porto

      Assault people who are skeptical about random Facebook posts! WOOOOO!

  51. Carms

    Well, actually-

    1. Chris

      What?

  52. Danni

    the best dexter and monkey episode: the one that doesnt lead into a two-parter which has no payoff

    1. BenRG

      No, I think that you’er thinking of the modern version of Doctor Who.

  53. Chris

    You know what’s strange? When I told my allies (what I call friends) that I was asexual, much like Becky admitted she was lesbian, they didn’t act shocked like Billy and Wally did. They’re pretty much cool with it

    1. Cerberus

      Yay! I’m glad!

      1. Chris

        Thank you! Just need to somehow tell my immediate family…

        1. Cerberus

          I believe in you!

        2. Grethelwvier

          Just make sure you have some sort of contingency plan incase things go south. Be safe, and good luck.

  54. BenRG

    It seems that vengeance on Walky will be both harsh and protracted; I’m kind of worried that Becky so quickly zeroed in on his one weak spot!

    1. Chris

      What about his second weak spot: (found this definition of it, specifically for Wally) MATH -noun, acronym: Mental. Abuse. To. Humans.

  55. Chris

    Wait a second! In the first panel Walky is to Joyces upper right, but by the last panel he is to her southern left. Wally must have done a back flip over them between panels

    1. Chris

      Anyway, it’s like 12:30 where I live so I better sleep. G’night guys!

    2. BenRG

      Or, y’know, maybe Joyce walked in front of him so that she ended up ahead and to the other side?

      1. Krys Brynhildr

        Or maybe Joyce and Becky walked around the super rude guy blocking doorway traffic by circling a different direction than Walky did? Thus changing the way they line up after the fact?

        On a side note, Tan Hoodie Guy was already being kind of a jerk, but having the discussion while still being right outside the doorway makes him extra jerky on top of it all.

        1. sundriedrainbow

          Many say that the deepest circle of hell is reserved for those who talk at the theater. I truly believe that there is a further, deeper layer for those who stop to have conversations in doorways.

        2. Chris

          And one even deeper for tan hoodie guys

        3. thejeff

          If I’m reading the conversation right, they’re still walking as they discuss the post, only stopping when Sal steps in front of them to stop the tan hoodieing.

          First panel, they’re clearly walking. Second, we can’t see their legs and the angle is different, but their body posture is still the same as in panel one. It’s in three they straighten up as if stopped when confronted by Sal.

  56. BenRG

    I can’t get Joyce’s expression in panel 5 out of my head. This is basically what she was afraid of, isn’t it? That no-one would believe her or, even if they did, that they wouldn’t rally care. I mean, okay: Being sceptical about something about which you know nothing other than an unverified on-line anecdote is okay, maybe even healthy. However, if someone walks up to you and says “No, it’s true”, then “Whatever” isn’t the right response. In the end, people just don’t feel horror these days at the casual inhumanity that people are capable of inflicting and maybe that’s the biggest tragedy of all.

    FWIW, at least a part of Becky jumping at Walky in the way she did is her uniquely Becky way of trying to cheer up her best friend.

    1. Cerberus

      I’m glad it was shown, though, because this is one of the more common experiences for survivors. To have to wade through a sea of assholes casually dismissing what happened to you and making all sorts of conjectures about the trustworthiness of survivors or pretending that false accusations are more prevalent and harmful than surviving an assault.

      This shit is what a survivor deals with day in and day out, from folks who have no clue how cruel they are being in their casual dismissal.

  57. Abel Undercity

    Tan Hoodie Guy got his head bounced off the fire exit door.

    Just ignore him.

    He probably did it himself, for attention.

    1. Cerberus

      Really we should care more about the door’s feelings. What if that door had been falsely accused of having someone bounced off of it? That would certainly be worse than the injuries he sustained. Maybe he shouldn’t be the sort of person who goes walking into fire exit doors for attention, hmm?

    2. JBento

      Nah, it really happened, but he was asking for it, going around with a head, showing it to everyone. If he didn’t want to have his head bounced, he should’ve worn a helmet, or at least kept his head covered. I mean, he even got a concussion, and Tan Hoodie Guys’ heads have a way of preventing that in cases of REAL forced headbouncing. We most certainly shouldn’t punish the door, how was it supposed to help itself? It has such a promising future, should we really ruin it for it? Doors will be doors. And I bet it doesn’t even enjoy new coats of paint anymore, how much more do you want to punish it?

      …

      WHY DO I HAVE SO MUCH MATERIAL FOR THIS?!

      1. BBCC

        To quote Billie, I laughed and then I cried.

  58. ValdVin

    Speaking of pixelly, anyone else zoom in on panel one to see if the blue was in Joyce’s eyes? After Ruth I’m now paying a lot more attention on that bit.

  59. zoomer296

    *Draws skinny monkey master fanart*

    1. Delicious Taffy

      No, you fool! Don’t you remember what happened to Zamii? It’s not worth your life.

  60. Toes14

    Why is this strip not titled “Dudebro”?

    and on a side note, when did Dudebro become a word?

  61. Koms

    In the last panel Joyce kind of looks like she’s fantasizing about Walky’s undies.

    1. BenRG

      I think that she’s actually fantasising about give him a galaxy-class wedgie.

  62. JBento

    Good luck for the AHCA vote, you lot. Let’s hope it Titanics.

    1. BBCC

      If it passes the house, they need to flip three senators. A few have gone on record as saying no, but I’m nervous. I do not trust the GOP. So if you guys have time, call and tell your electeds to vote this down.

      1. JBento

        All “no” votes are a metaphorical cheesegrater away from “yes” votes until they’re actually cast. It’s happened again and again: “Well, I was going to vote no, you all know that, because I said it,” but then they offered me (insert minimal and completely unrelated thing here) in exchange for me to vote yes, so I did, because it’s for us, you guys, so who cares if everyone gets fucked?”

        And then people cheer, and I discover that I was wrong and COULD, in fact, loathe humanity more.

  63. Chris

    Donald Trump has been charged with at least 11 cases of sexual assault, but the victims dropped charges when he became president

    1. Cerberus

      Yeah, can’t imagine why any would be scared of bringing up charges witha sitting US president with a rabid fanbase of nazis already trying to dox them.

      It’s a bloody mystery.

      1. Chris

        It is, isn’t it?

    2. thejeff

      Hey, there’s one of those horrible consequences of being accused of sexual assault – falsely or otherwise: You can be elected President.

      1. JBento

        Could be worse, he could have actually admitted to sexually assaulting women on camera and been cheered, and THEN elected. But that’s just crazy.

        1. Emperor Norton

          Yeah, our society really, really, -really- wants nothing more than to utterly and permanently destroy the lives of rapists and sexual assaulters, that’s for certain!

        2. Cerberus

          Yeah, after the election of Trump, it’s even harder to take the rape accusations ruin lives shtick seriously, because…*wordless frustrated gesture*

  64. Apostate

    Welp, back into the painful topics hole we go. Fuck all y’all who devil’s advocate for this kinda thing, you are part of the problem, and I hope you think long and hard about how you do things sooner rather than later.

    1. Porto

      Except yet ANOTHER girl admitted that she lied about being gang-raped by scary black men.

      1. Fart Captor

        ANOTHER one? In addition to the ones you haven’t specified, sourced, or even mentioned?

        1. Porto

          Ohhh, fart.

          You dun fucked up now.

          http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-central-park-five-still-guilty-wrongfully-convicted-1989-rape-case-nyc-a7351231.html

          http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11912748/Guilty-until-proven-innocent-life-after-a-false-rape-accusation.html

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rape_on_Campus

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

          https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/03/23/hoax-texas-teen-made-up-widely-publicized-story-that-3-black-men-kidnapped-and-gang-raped-her-police-say/?utm_term=.b0f3c78edd67

          That last one was the most recent one.

          And trust me, I understand why people don’t come forward. Because when I told people about when MY friends tried to rape me, my parents believed me. Two of my friends believed me. The girl who is probably still the love of my life thinks I’m a liar, as well as a guy who I know was also falsely accused.

          How do I know he was falsely accused? His ex, the girl who accused him, made sure to specifiy the date, with absolute certainty.

          She was hospitalized on that day. At the local mental hospital I’d spent a good chunk of the summer at.

          Guess what? I know that probably about 90-95% of rape accusations are true. Two of my exes were raped by the same guy. He had nude photos of one of those exes (when she was 16) and our school refused to do a GOD DAMNED thing about it. My other ex had been raped by him and one of her cousins.

          And then she tried to rape me, too. And then she had the gall to say I was a liar, because she knew the guys for two years. Because two years means you know a person. I knew them for half our lives when they bent me over that fucking couch.

          So yeah, I get hostile when this horseshit comes up, because I’ve had friends, enemies and loved ones on every side of the equation.

          But I’ve seen what blindly refusing to believe somebody can do, on all sides of the issue, and it’s never pretty. But I’ve made my choice, and that is to believe what evidence says.

          Which sucks, because like I said, I know most accusations are true, because I know how hard it is just to tell anybody about what happened. But if there’s no way to actually show that something happened, there’s not much that can be done as per the law of the land, and frankly, I don’t think it should change.

  65. TerribleName

    Like the sloth, green hair lady has let her hair become rich with delicious algae for a healthy snack on the go

  66. Whittier

    Hoodie Guy should be named Wally.

    Wally Actually.

  67. Deanatay

    “…”
    “…?”
    “…”
    “… WELL??”
    “Hm? Oh, I was just thinking that I like all D&MM episodes, there’s not really one that’s better than all the others…”
    “…WROOOOOOOONG HGDKRHHHRRHDHDFKGHLL”

    1. BenRG

      Just in case anyone is wondering, Deanatay’s comment demonstrates a great experience in the behaviour and mindset of Internet-based fandoms.

  68. Cerberus

    For a rape follow-up strip, we get 3/4 of the page devoted to “false rape accusations” despite the arc being about a real attempted rape.

    I wish I were surprised, but honestly, I’m just prickly and surly about this shit. Cause it happens fucking everywhere all the bloody time. And I’m beyond done with it all.

    1. BBCC

      RIGHT? Whyyyyyyy.

      1. JBento

        I’m sorry, I’m confused now. Is this about tomorrow’s strip that you have accessed via Patreon or..?

      2. JBento

        No, wait, my bad, I misread – I thought Cerberus had typed “rape strip (which would be this one, as it clearly wasn’t yesterday’s) follow-up.”

        Carry on.

    2. Guairdean Beatha

      No, we get 3/4 of the page devoted to the reality of the situation. We’ve gone from “Well, she was asking for it” being considered a legal defense to a point where accusations are taken seriously by the police. Sadly, there’s still a culture out there that blames the victim. Education is slowly changing that, but it’s a maddeningly slow process. Ignoring it only gives it permission to exist. My bet is that Tan Hoodie Kid is reflecting what his father taught him. I was taught to respect women, and I taught my daughters to demand respect. I’ll let you guess what my grandsons were taught. Tan Hoodie Kid (and probably his father) is one of the throwbacks to the “She was asking for it” days. Don’t blame our bard for portraying the truth, blame the neanderthals in our culture that make it necessary.

      It’s also possible he recognized the picture and will soon be on the phone sending a warning. I don’t remember if there was a clear image of the driver of Ryan’s getaway car, but if he wore a tan hoodie, it would explain his desire to push the blame, and attention, away from Ryan.

      1. JBento

        You meant his guy? http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-7/01-glower-vacuum/ryan/

        Very clearly not the same person. Tan Hoodie Guy might be just passive asshole instead of active shitstain.

        1. Guairdean Beatha

          Yes, thanks. He can still attain the rank of active shitstain if he knows Ryan, but that’s less likely.

        2. Delicious Taffy

          The guy telling Ryan to get in is sitting in the passenger’s seat. The driver is a nondescript silhouette.

    3. Porto

      Another girl admitted to lying about being gang-raped by scary black men, Cerberus.

      Black men are 5x more likely to be exonerated for false rape convictions than white men.

      Sometimes, the shitty reality is that everybody, everywhere, is shitty, and they’ll do whatever they can to fuck other people over.

      1. Fart Captor

        …and why exactly would that make it okay to completely dismiss not just a single specific claim (though hoody dude knows literally nothing about it), but to say most rape allegations are “made up”?

        1. Porto

          I’ll sum up my other post, which is awaiting moderation because links, here:

          I actually agree that tan shirt is being a douche. The way he said that is outright dismissive. He clearly doesn’t give a shit. But he’s right about one thing: unless you know the actual situation from somebody you can trust, it’s best not to spread character assassinations around.

  69. Greenygal

    Can we just spend the rest of the week on Joyce baiting Walky about cartoons? At this point even Walky would probably appreciate the distraction.

  70. Stella

    Okay, can I just say something that has happened more than once in my circle? An abuser, or otherwise hostile / controlling person, spreads false information about the person they abused on social media, including their picture. This happens often when the person escapes their abuser / hostile bully. Often 100% gaslighting bullshit, accusing the former abuse-victim of being an abuser *themselves*.

    There is no kind of social circle I have seen immune to this–LGBT friend groups, nerd friend groups, etc. I don’t think there are any statistics on this because it is a relatively new phenomena (social media, etc, and sometimes viral videos). It is also difficult to track because posts might be deleted, and it is very difficult to prove such a post is slanderous in court, let alone want to go to court at all after having escaped a bully or abuser.

    The abuser or bully sometimes accuses their victim of other things, like cheating on them or being “slutty,” as in the Amanda Todd case, or Brianna Wu. This is seen as more common, but that is because these cases went so viral they gained national media attention. In truth, the abuser will pick any thing most likely to get their victim ostracized by their friends, which is many cases unfortunately is accusing the person of abuse or sexual assault.

    I volunteer with the local crisis center / domestic violence center, and I am young, so I am not a professional. I have not been here very long. However, abusers spreading lies on social media seems to happen a LOT nowadays.

    I am writing this not to defend Tan Hoodie Guy, but moreso to inform people who may not know: please, PLEASE do not share social media posts regarding these things unless you know the person personally. Please try to get all the facts. ESPECIALLY be wary of posts that tell you to call a certain number / inform someone “if you have seen this person.” That post is likely by a stalker, not worried parent or police looking for a criminal on the run.

    Okay, /PSA.

  71. C.T Phipps

    It’s the nastiness of the world that innocent until proven guilty is often NOT a good thing when there’s rarely evidence, witnesses, or belief about one of the most heinous of all crimes. Also, a culture which supports it.

    1. Cerberus

      Oh, innocent until proven guilty is a great thing. I think it’s a good legal standard in our courts and I wouldn’t want someone to go to jail unless we were damn sure as a society that they committed the crime they did.

      But that doesn’t apply to general life. I owe no loyalty to “innocent until proven guilty” to not look at the evidence and what I know and go “conviction or no, this fucker is a piece of shit I want nowhere near me or any one who shares my gender”.

      And that’s the twisted thing about rape. It’s the only crime outside of maybe abuse where the victim is on trial more than the perpetrator in our court systems, where they are assumed to be lying in a way no other victim of a crime is assumed to be lying (like noone goes to folks who were robbed and accuses them of lending them the money or just trying to get some young kids in trouble and actually you donated money to them, think of their futures), and where we badger people under no obligation to be cotton to a legal standard to randomly hold a standard of open denialism less they somehow besmirch something that was only ever meant for the court system, not the court of public opinion.

      As you note, it’s a nastiness of the world and one that is frighteningly hard to get rid of.

      Which is why I think I frequently become a ball of rage and stabby implements on topics like this.

    2. Porto

      ….Dude, what the fuck?

  72. Optimal Optimus

    Y’know, we haven’t seen Jason in a while.

    1. Rukduk

      Which is good. And Cerberus has explained why such a thing would be good multiple times in the past.

  73. Zatar

    So who’s going to show up in the next comic and do or say something transparently awful only to have a huge group of commentators jump to defend them.

    1. Rukduk

      I’ll roll a die. “1” is Mike, “2” is Joe, “3” is another random background character, “4” is background character we’ve seen but has no name, “5” is Chloe, and “6” is Clint.
      …
      …
      Uh…is it bad that my die is somehow balancing perfectly on one corner and refuses to land properly? Cause it’s kinda freaking me out.

      1. Zatar

        I mean it could mean that we won’t have commentators defending someone awful, or more likely your dice are controlled by the Devil and the term “Devil’s Advocate” is going to be more literal then usual.

      2. Chris

        A zero/nothing: no change, we continue with these characters

  74. chris73

    More really good writing here, it’d be quite easy for this to be like any other comic and have pic be believed and everyone rushes out to find the guy and theres a happy ending

    But this is far more “real” and better for it, I mean for me personally I’d err on the side of caution and keep an eye out for the guy but I can understand why hoodie guy is dismissive as theres nothing to back the pic up

    Its dark and depressing and a damn fine read

  75. Orion Fury

    So ima gonna go out on a limb and assume that tan hoodie was a couple of panels away from launching into a mansplaining diatribe.

    Also, I hope all is well in the commenting section, it’s been awhile since I’ve engaged fully, and regularly, here.

    1. Jhon

      Good to see you back!
      And I’ve put in a
      NOT HARD ENOUGH
      or two when it seemed useful.

  76. Jhon

    Um, Cerberus?
    “desistence” is confusing me (and Google).
    You didn’t need it to make your point.
    (support & hugs)

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